Hey there, listener! Thank you for checking out our older seasons! We're adding this note on the top of the show notes to keep you up-to-date with the show. Connect with Jen Amos and get bonus content when you subscribe to our private podcast show, Inside the Fort by US VetWealth, at http://insidethefort.com/

Last Updated: September 2, 2024

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122: “If the family can't be physically together during the holidays, how do we still get that connection?” Managing holiday expectations with Dr. Leah Blain & Joanna Goldstein, LCSW

Dr. Leah Blain & Joanna Goldstein, LCSW join us from the Steven A. Cohen Military Family Clinic at the University of Pennsylvania to help military families prepare for the holidays. Together, they share how they help veterans and military family members make it "back to better," how serving the military community has personally kept them going during the pandemic, and the importance of taking care of your mental health during the holidays.

Resources

• If you’re a Veteran in crisis or concerned about one, there are caring, qualified Veterans Affairs responders standing by to help 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Call 1-800-273-8255 and Press 1 or visit https://www.veteranscrisisline.net/
• Vets4Warriors provides sustained, confidential peer support to any veteran, service member, family member, or caregiver whenever they have an issue, wherever they are in the world. We help before challenges turn into crises. Call 1-855-838-8255 or visit https://www.vets4warriors.com/
• Military OneSource from the Department of Defense is your 24/7 gateway to trusted information, resources and confidential help. When MilLife happens, it’s your “first line of support” — giving service members and military families tools to stay well and thrive. Learn more at https://www.militaryonesource.mil/
• Brought to you by CVN and Blue Star Families, Tools for Managing Stress and Worry provides research-based strategies, tools and techniques to help manage stress and worry. The course was designed by mental health experts with input from military family members themselves. Learn more at https://www.cohenveteransnetwork.org/toolsforstress/
• In addition to providing vital mental health services, each Steven A. Cohen Military Family Clinic has become a pillar in its community in part due to a wide variety of workshops, seminars, partner gatherings, and other events held in the community rooms in each location. Learn more at https://www.cohenveteransnetwork.org/cvnpresents/
• To find a Cohen Veterans Network clinic near you, visit https://www.cohenveteransnetwork.org/clinics/

For our latest updates: https://mailchi.mp/1271e485f1f0/holdingdownthefort

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Support free art and comedy classes to veterans, service members, military family members, and caregivers by attending Jen's Storytelling Bootcamp Graduation Show by the Armed Services Arts Program on Wednesday, November 17, 2021 8 PM (EST) via Zoom. Purchase your ticket for "Storytelling Bootcamp Grad Show – Bravo" at https://asapasap.org/attend-a-show/

Special thanks to The Rosie Network for the invitation to participate in the ceremony, congratulate the award winners, and update the community on our journey since we won 2020 Media Professional of the Year! Watch now at https://youtu.be/pd9agrNEpUQ

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Visit our website https://www.holdingdownthefortpodcast.com/

This show is sponsored by US VetWealth

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• Or listen to Holding Down the Fort's sister show, The Spouse Benefit Plan, at http://thespousebenefitplan.com/

September 2021, the show made the Final Slate in the 16th Annual People's Choice Podcast Awards for the Government & Organizations category. November 2020, Jen Amos and Holding Down the Fort Podcast was awarded “Media Professional of the Year” at The Rosie Network Entrepreneur Awards! We've also been featured in multiple media outlets including Legacy Magazine, U.S. Veterans Magazine, The American MilSpouse, VeteranCrowd Network, It's a Military Life, VirtForce, Military Veteran Dad Podcast, and much more.

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J.A. 0:00

Alright, hey, everyone. Welcome back to the award winning podcast show hold down the fort. I am your Creator and co host and emos. And as always, I have my amazing co host with me, Jenny Lynn strip. Gentlemen, welcome back.

Unknown Speaker 0:11

Hey, glad to be here today.

J.A. 0:13

Yes. And I'm really excited because I feel like we've just had a morning together already having a conversation about our show on, shout out to Britt Lonza, his podcast show moments within me, oh, it was really fun to bring you on or to come on together as CO hosts to share a little bit about our experiences of being co hosts together. Oh, I

Speaker 1 0:32

mean, I love anytime that you and I get to partner together and do something, especially sharing the good news of holding down the fort. Like it is one of the joys of my life that I get to do this with you and talk to such great guest and, you know, put out information into a community I love so much. So I was so excited that she invited both of us and we got to be like real co hosts going to another show together. That was yes.

J.A. 0:57

Yes, I want that to be like the standard now. Like we're like a package deal, if anyone's gonna invite me to anything. Well, with that being said, we are really excited to bring on fellow members of the Coen veterans network. So let me go ahead and bring them on starting with Dr. Leah Blaine. So Dr. Leah Blaine is a licensed clinical psychologist, clinic director and military and veteran advocate. So Leah, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having us. Yes. And also, we have Joanna Goldstein, who is a licensed clinical social worker, and staff therapist at the Steven A Cohen, military family clinic. So Joanna, and Leah, thank you for joining us here today on hold down the fort.

Unknown Speaker 1:40

Thank you so much for having us. Yeah.

J.A. 1:43

So I thought I'd open up by asking this question, considering how our show is called hold down the fort. Starting with you, Leah. What does holding down the fort look like for you nowadays? And what I'm really asking is give us a quick snapshot of your life.

Speaker 2 1:55

Yeah, gosh, I feel like there's been a lot of holding down the board over the last year and a half. It's been really real. But yeah, I mean, I think you know, getting to do this work every day, I work with the most amazing team in the world. And we have the best mission in the world, providing care to our veterans and military family members. I think it just keeps us all going. And we really feed off of each other and feed off of what we're able to really hopefully get back to the community. And on the personal side. It has been like making sure I'm sticking with my workouts and stuff on my kiddos and just making sure that there's a lot of rejuvenation coming, because there's a lot of stress going on right now. But yeah, so that's what it looks like on my side.

J.A. 2:29

Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. I think that one thing I have come to realize in the pandemic, and it goes back to a book that actually Jennylyn recommended to me, tribe by Sebastian Junger, where it's like, in a time of conflict, having a common cause with your people with your community is a way to get through these hard times. And it's so great that you, Leah, were able to provide, you know, mental health services through the Steven, a Cohen, military family clinic, alongside with Joanna which we'll have her talk here in a second. And also, you know, thank you for also humanizing yourself and sharing a little bit of what's going on in your personal life.

Unknown Speaker 3:06

Oh, yeah. It's been very human. This this.

J.A. 3:11

I love it. It's been very human. I love that response. That's like the first time I've ever heard that kind of response. And I love it. Joanna, I want to go ahead and turn it to you. Now, what does holding down the fort look like for you nowadays, basically, give us a snapshot of your life today?

Speaker 3 3:25

Well, I want to piggyback on what Leah said, she's my boss, and she is like the world's best boss. It has been the past year and a half really difficult. So this concept of like, you know, self care, obviously, really, really important to be able to balance because the work has felt so much harder. People have been under a lot of stress. And so to be able to, on non work time be able to carve out time for me like my big tree does massage. That's really so I try to fit that in whenever I can. My kids are older, they're away in college. So you know, making sure that they're kind of doing what they need to do. Walking my dog is a huge part of my life. Yep, that's it balance balance is the key to holding down the fort for me.

J.A. 4:09

Yes, absolutely. Well, I

Speaker 1 4:11

love this share that things are very human. I second that wholeheartedly. You know, that while they are internal code veterans that were employees, meaning that they see people within the clinic, I'm an external employee. So I've had a different level of stress. As far as being in the mental health sector. I don't see patients, I see people who might be patients and invite them to come join us as a patient. And so our roles are different, but it's been I mean, overall mental health across I mean, our Coen veterans network, as well as across the nation, I mean, has been largely impacted over the last you know, 18 months to two years and you know, it is both a privilege and a burden to work in that and to help people get the help that they need. And it is also very human because on the other side of wonderful therapy, everybody is a human and has is a family and has things they have to do. I mean, we've shared multiple times on the show my family PCs, like we uprooted and moved across the country. And you know, I mean, that brings a certain level of change and humanity. And also, I'm still working in mental health, trying to get people to take care of their own while balancing mine and my family's. Yeah, absolutely,

Speaker 2 5:21

I think that's something that we kind of stay really attuned to as a team is, is how to make sure that we are kind of balancing that and especially that role, you know, for our folks that are out in the community, you know, are kind of hearing, you know, some of the tougher stuff, right, and try and help folks connect, and we call it like, spread the good word. But then really making sure that those folks are really integrated within our team as well, because we get to see that progress and see how those folks are progressing and changing and, and you can just see it, like even whether it's remotely or in person, just see people as they're getting well, they just look different, right. And so making sure that we're passing that good news back to our you know, especially our frontline folks, right, our intake coordinator, our you know, front desk coordinator, our outreach folks out on the ground, they don't get to see that progress as much as sometimes as the clinicians do. And so keeping folks in the loop and keeping folks aware, I think helps just to keep that momentum and that energy going that into this really, the work we're doing has a huge impact. And every week, I think this other thing that I just love about working with a military veteran community is like every bit we can give to someone, we know those folks are going to go and give it to somebody else to write because that is the cornerstone of our military and veteran community is service. And that extends beyond people's time in military service. So I think that's one of the really great privileges of working with this community is that you are paying dividends out into your entire community, wherever you are.

J.A. 6:44

Yeah, it's like what you're doing is causing a ripple effect to not just a person you're helping, but the people that they end up impacting because you help them.

Speaker 3 6:53

I think, Jenny Lynn mentioned that that's a huge issue. It's just part of military life, that you get orders and you move wherever you're told to move. And you know, that has an impact on spouses and on children and on families. And I find that spouses really need to support their spouse who's serving, and they're serving too, because they're making sure the spouse is in good shape. And things are being held down at the floor right there, on the floor at all, and that their kids and kind of the Healthy Kids who just just because you know, this is what the lifestyle is, doesn't mean that it's easy to have to move around. And I agree with Leah wholeheartedly, I find that to be able to acknowledge and validate that it's difficult for people and to provide them the support, they need to be able to continue to live a lifestyle that involves a lot more sacrifice, then other people are used to making in their lives. And it's just, you know, as part of the deal, right? And you do it willingly. Yeah, so that's kind of what sustains me in the work is that I know that I'm doing something that's gonna help people be able to like sustain what they're doing.

J.A. 8:07

I really appreciate you saying that the military spouse is serving as well. And you know, with my background, like having been raised as a military child for the first decade of my life, you know, the kids serve as well. And I just appreciate what Steven A Cohen military family clinic is doing in regards to validating everyone affiliated with the military that you are serving, you know, and your needs and your concerns and your struggles, and the problems you go through. They are very valid and real. And we want to be that resource for you to help. And so Leah want to go to you. And if you could share a little bit about your background, and you know, what led you to working with Steven A Cohen military family clinic?

Speaker 2 8:47

Yeah, and we call it the Cohen clinic at Penn for us, just because it is such a mouthful. But yeah, so my kind of what led me to here, you know, I grew up right by the Joint basis in Jersey. So you know, I feel like I always kind of had a, I was next to the military community, though not in it myself. And then, you know, when I was kind of figuring out my path, clinical psychology really called to me and trauma recovery, in particular, having, you know, just known a lot of people in my earlier years that were very impacted by trauma and really seeing that there was an opportunity to help folks in recovery and to kind of get back on whatever path they wanted to be. So that was me that was grad school was, you know, trauma recovery, PTSD work. And I just so happened to start at the Baltimore VA for my internship postdoc, and I just fell in love with serving veterans. It was just very, very meaningful trauma work had always been, and then got this opportunity to open the clinic down by Fort Meade, outside Baltimore in a teeny tiny, but then I got into the real secret that serving veteran the military families outside the VA was even more fun. And then this clinic came to be and so had the opportunity to come up here and open this clinic with some fabulous folks like Joanna, a number of folks that are We're still on our team. And I think that is the piece that we were all the most excited about, and that everyone we talked to is always the most excited about is that we can serve the entire family, even if that veteran or servicemember isn't involved, right. So if your partner doesn't want to come in, if the parents not in or say they're seeing the VA, and the kiddo needs to come, that opportunity to fill in those gaps, has been so inspiring, and then getting to work with fabulous people like Joanna, who does all this amazing work with families and kiddos that I don't do and learning from her. And I think it makes every member of our team better, right. So even if I just work with some of our adult clients, I do that in a better, more informed way. Because now I'm thinking about who they are as parents. So it really I think that the clinic is kind of a microcosm of our community and all those intersecting layers.

Yeah, I think that's really incredible. And before I ask the same question to you, Joanna, I want to check in with Jenny Lynn, because I know during the pandemic, a lot of your work has been helping open other clinics, I think, around America. So I'm curious if you had any thoughts, I'm after everything that Leah has shared so far.

I mean, the one thing that like really made me smile that nobody gets to see because they're listening to us and not watching us is, you know, that we do serve the whole military family, as a military spouse, and a member of a military family. You know, I love that I work for an organization that fills that gap, because we inherently as a military community, have tons of resources, but not all of them apply to every single piece of the military family, like Coen veterans network does. And so it is my great privilege and honor to be able to be a part of the community that we serve, and go we serve all of you, like, everybody can come here. But in regardless of the service member of veterans involvement, I think that's another huge piece. You know, one of the things that we often get a lot of questions about is like, Well, how do we come? Well, as a spouse or kiddo, like we can self refer, you have to have nothing other than your own willingness to call a clinic to get the help that you and or your kids need. And that we do it in a variety of ways. I mean, we can see siblings, we can see them individually, we can see parents and kids, we can see just the parent, like there's so many things that we have the ability to do within the code, veterans network to serve the whole family and help the whole family get back to better that like, it really is fun. And yes, like Leah, I am part of two new clinics, it's super fun to like, be a part of that opening and see like these other areas respond to Oh, my gosh, we are so happy for the help, like we have been impacted in these 14 different ways. And you are meeting the needs of those in a way that we cannot. And so yeah, it's really fun. Because I joined a team that was already established, my clinic in San Diego was already open when I joined the team. So to be part of the new opening for Oceanside and LA is fun. Love it. That's really

cool, I actually realized that you are getting to cover both. And I do think that that's been a fun piece for us. So we serve and again, like being our military community. Every time we talk to somebody, they're like, Oh, is there a clinic here? Is there a clinic there. So even though each of our clinics is kind of in a local area, we really do connect with each other all the time and support people all across the country. But even just our little clinic in Philly, you know, we serve the tri state area, we've served folks as far out as Pittsburgh, all the way down into Delaware in through jersey. And so I think being able to continue to you know, just to bring that message out further, I think that is the spirit of the Cohen veterans network. That is the mission is to fill those gaps, decrease those barriers, make sure that everybody can get the help when they need it. Right. So it's not just that, you know, we're here to support people, but really, we have that almost prevention kind of mission. Right? catch it early. Come in, get that care. Don't wait till it's a crisis. If you do wait till crisis, it's okay, you ready for crisis happens quickly, we've still got you. But really that idea that, you know, you can just come right in, you don't have to worry. I know, some people are like, well, I don't meet criteria for a diagnosis. We've had folks who've been turned away from the VA previously, because they didn't meet criteria for a full diagnosis, which is understandable. But in our clinic, we just have more flexibility. So you can just come in just because you're not feeling right. You don't feel like yourself, you're not getting along with people, you're not quite sleeping, right. And catch it early. So it doesn't snowball. So it's been again, another really cool and unique aspect of this particular model.

Yeah, I really love that inclusivity you know, it's like, you don't just have to reach out just because you're affiliated with a military, you know, service member, you can go individually as yourself, in a sense. And so I love that that's actually the first time I'm hearing that like, Oh, that's really cool.

Just that, you know, I agree with your enthusiasm and that it's great that this network of clinics exists, and that we're able to provide to fill in this kind of gap services and provide the ability for people who maybe go to the VA or don't want to go to the VA or families who aren't eligible. To go to the VA, or maybe we're more conveniently located to where they are living, then military resources are, which happens in our area a little bit to drive up to the job basis, are people filled out about an hour and a half? So we're just a little bit more convenient for people to be able to get support. So

yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, Joanna, tell us a little bit about your background. What led you to the Cohen clinic?

Yeah, no. So I actually had, I'm a first generation American. So nobody in my family had served in the US military, they served in military and other countries, but not here. And so this was like a whole new area. I've always been interested in trauma, because of being an immigrant have always worked with immigrant families. I've worked with kids throughout my career. So this was a great opportunity to learn about the US military. And one of the most surprising and interesting pieces for me, as in how diverse the population, there are a lot of first generation Americans serving in the military, navigating being really proud Americans and serving their country that has taken them in and working with people who are like, you can count several generations of people in the military, this is like a point of pride for their families to serve. So everything that I've been learning has, and I love learning. So you know, to kind of get into this new area, it's actually made the work so much more meaningful, to know that I'm providing support to people who have made great sacrifice. So to be able to help kids be able to, you know, deal with their parent deploying and not seeing them every day, or not being able to talk to them as much worrying about their parent, wherever they are. So I feel like to build that resilience of that child that like, yes, he's a real worries. And you know, you're going to be okay, whatever happens, and we're going to work together to get there, a parent who's worried about their spouse, but also like, worried about their kid who's having a hard time. So it's just been, like the opportunity to do work that feels so meaningful.

Yeah, absolutely. And you're right. One thing I love about continuing to be involved in the military community is its overall diversity. I mean, by nature, you know, you have to be inclusive, you have to work together to survive, you know, and so there's just that overall spirit of inclusivity. And working together and diversity, and I'm repeating my words, but you know, what I'm saying, you know, a little bit about, like, my background, my parents are immigrants from the Philippines, and had it been my dad joining the US Navy, I wouldn't have been born as an American, and I wouldn't be able to be talking to you all today, you know, I probably would have ended up like a lot of my family members in the Philippines who have like five kids now, I probably would have been one of those people in my young 30s. But fortunately, I mean, I don't have any kids right now. So I don't know if that's even better. But the point is that, like, yeah, there are a lot of immigrants who join the military. And so it was interesting to have grown up in that environment where I have, you know, let's say the Filipino culture in the household, but you're stepping out into wherever we were stationed into the Japanese society, or the American society or South Korea Society, and trying to navigate all that while, you know, trying to find your identity and all of that. And so I appreciate you know, where you're coming from where your background is, and to be able to be cognizant of the fact that there are, let's say, a lot of foreign spouses that are in the military community and what have you, because it's a true, it's a real thing. And to be quite honest, I wish I had more guests on our show who could represent that demographic. And so that's something that I feel like I need to make more of an initiative to do. But either way, Leah and Joanna, really appreciate you both sharing a little bit about your background and what led you to the COVID network. All right, well, that's a little background on everyone. With that being said, I'm really excited to get into our conversation today, which has to do with families and the holidays. So at the time that this is being released, this is right before, you know, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and every other holiday that takes place for the end of the year. So Leah, I just want to start with you. Do you have any opening thoughts in preparing for this holiday season, especially for military families? Yeah,

so I feel like always around the holidays, it's kind of starting with that grounding, and just expectation management, right? Like, I love the holidays, like I geek out, I love it so much. But we get so kind of wrapped into, like what it should be or when it needs to be. And that's extra complicated if you are stationed away from loved ones, especially in the context of the pandemic, now, potentially, not being able to travel or not being able to travel easily or whatever that might look like for different families, this particular holiday season. And so, you know, I think there's always just like, you know, just like we were talking about earlier, our you know, what kind of keeps us you know, good as we hold down for right is staying connected with that mission and that purpose, right. So, what do we care about during the holidays, whatever it is that you're celebrating for a lot of people it is Family. So if you can't be physically together, how do we still get that connection? You know, for a lot of people, it's, you know, we just think of kids like our kiddos are just it right and it's present and it's but you know, really kind of connecting with is that, you know, is that what we intend to be doing. So that intentionality and kind of the expectation setting, and really just making sure that whatever we're kind of putting ourselves up against, that we intend to be doing so they can get, especially, you know, when the American holiday celebration and wheels can come off quickly, you know, Black Friday, kind of just, you know, things can kind of go off the rails. So I think just for every one of the holidays, just centering before we launch into that to really kind of make sure that we're being intentional about whatever it is that we're going to do. And however we're going to sell it.

Yeah, absolutely genuine, you're back home in so many levels, you know, you're back in Hampton Roads, with your parents and your community and your childhood friends, in a sense. And so I'm curious, like, you know, what are your initial thoughts and knowing that, you know, your family is going to actually celebrate the holidays, back home,

I have a lot of excitement. In fact, I just yesterday was texting with my cousin's wife, we're going to their house for Thanksgiving, their kids and my kids are about the same age. And it just like, brings such joy, I think is the right word to like, be able to do that, because we've lived away from this area for almost a decade. And there have been Christmases where like, my parents have come to us and my sisters or we have gone there. But to be home and be able to do it is so fun. And also it just relieves a you know, as a military family. It just relieves some of the pressure of like, what are we going to do? Last year, our grand plan was we were going to close out our time in California by taking our kids to Disneyland. And we were going to like go and wake up there on Christmas Day. Well enter, you know, worldwide pandemic, Disneyland closes, we don't get to go to Disneyland. And so and neither could anyone travel. So we we lost the option of like hanging out with family, we lost the fun option we had, and you know, my husband, I really hate to they're like, well, now what? Like, what do we do, like we've lived in six months of suck, like our kids are over, we're over it. Nobody can come like all of the traditions and all of the things that like, have meant so much to us, as you know, I mean, even having friends in the house and doing gingerbread houses like so I will admit like last year, we were like the family that was like, let's over gift everyone because we have nothing else to do, you know, which has been led us to this year of like, okay, well, now we can go and do things. And now we can be with family. So, you know, we are doing a little redefining because we have the option of like driving to my parents house or driving to my uncle's house, you know, and I can already feel like my kids being like, so but like, what are we doing for Christmas? Like, it's gonna be big again, right? And internally, I'm like, does it have to be like, we can actually go and do things like, can we put the focus there? Like I know, last year, we're sponges, there's a lot to unwrap, but like this year, let's roll it back a little. And so those are some of the conversations like Matthew and I are having of like, okay, well, what does this look like this year? And I think, you know, even more so than civilian families. That's a conversation we have every year, every year we have to define it is are his parents coming? Are we going like, you know, and this year, I think we have a little more of that last year was a very much like everyone's stuck at home. So this is we have what we have. And this year as things are various levels of open and various levels of comfortability, it is a big question that is weighing heavily on, especially the binds of military families, because the option is there for people to come and go, and what does that look like? Like safety wise, you know, military restriction wise, family wise, like what does that look like? So I'm really grateful to be home and drive down the street. That's where we're at and

counting your blessings. Yeah. You know, Joanna, Leah had hinted that, you know, you primarily focus on military families. So I'm sure this is a very interesting, a very exciting topic for you to be a part of today.

No, absolutely. Yes. Yes, I do work with kids and families in our clinic. And I think for the holidays, and Jenny Lynn spoke of you know, so many families are not able to weather because their station are away from their families. And the cost of travel, you know, is high or in the past, you know, to holiday well, to holiday. No one holiday. Yeah. One holiday Oh, my goodness. COVID time has been very strange. So I think one of the pieces is really about being able to like really, I said, manage expectations, right. And I think something that can be very helpful is creating your own family traditions, that kind of like your own nuclear family. So no matter where you are, it doesn't have to be. How you celebrate doesn't have to be dependent on being in a particular location. It means that you can create You know, because that's a lot of what the holidays really are, is bringing us back to kind of childhood memories and the people who we were with, and the things that did. So to be able to create some rituals for your family. And now that Zoom are sort of kind of teleconferencing has become so popular, you know, those are ways to be able to incorporate maybe, you know, more extended family to be able to, you know, fulfill like your rituals, but also be connected, because I think the holidays are also about that being connected to the people that you care about. I mean, I just like recently, you know, I think one of the pieces I've had families tell me that they don't know how much to gift, because they're going to be moving around so much. And so nothing's like not everything can make it from place to place they have to manage, you know, because they don't have necessarily yet like, they're like forever home, that's like a family call that they had had a forever home, they ended up selling it because they realize that's not where they're going to ultimately end up being. So I think not having a place and having to kind of think like every few years you're moving. But that's hard for kids and families, parents really want to make holidays special for kids, regardless, and especially if parents are serving isn't around, right for the holidays, that can be a really hard time. So I always think balance, too. That's really what I've been focusing on with kids rather than always focusing on like, what the negative aspects is kind of balancing that there. There are upsides and trying to keep, you know, looking forward to something, and again, come back to and maybe it's looking forward to those rituals that just your family does, and you can incorporate other family members.

Yeah, you know, I've always felt like there was this high, high pressure and expectations around the holidays, for it to be something super perfect, you know, and for me, especially December, it's a very sensitive time for me, because, you know, it's not just the holidays, it's also my birthday, and it's also my dad's birthday. And so it's always been like this weird, like, I feel fortunate about a couple of years ago, I started to anticipate seasonal depression, I was like, Oh, I have seasonal depression, like I legitimately have it, especially in December. And I remember the first time I actually sought out help during the holiday season, it made all the difference. I was like, I didn't know, I needed that. I just thought that for the rest of my life. December was going to be the most depressing, you know, month for me. And I think, again, a lot of it has to do with this, like odd pressure for it to be perfect. And so I like how in hearing you all talk so far, like just the importance of, you know, redefining what the holidays mean for you, you know, setting up those rituals, those traditions, and being open to switching it up. Depending on where you're at, depending on how in close proximity you are to your family or not. I think just having just having that primary objective, just like what Leah was saying early on, setting those intentions early on, of what you really want to get out of this year in the holidays is extremely important. And I'd like to just, you know, say like to get some help, like it's okay, like, you don't have to take a break off of your mental health. Well, it's holiday season. So Leah, I see you're nodding a lot. So I want to check in with you see your thoughts.

It's funny. And that was Genda was like the exact other piece that I was thinking as, as I was kind of initially responding. He's like, and keep taking care of yourself, right? Like you have to like you also have to keep working out, keep walking the dog keep whatever it is that you do. It can't go on pause when you have high stress periods, whether it's us stress, right, like positive stressors are still stressors when you're moving, when it's the holidays, right? Like they're those times because then that makes you vulnerable to a crash. Right? So you've got to just keep taking care of yourself. And I think especially for families, you know, we're talking about with kiddos, but even folks that are kiddos, right, there's still pressure of like, being together and being on and being this. And you know, just this idea of coming back to the expectations component of family as well, especially as I was coming back to kind of email like, where Jenny was talking about, like being your family actually can add expectations as well. Because then it's like, well, how many family members can you hit on actual person's day? Right? Like it can kind of level up in ways that can be unhelpful? So that guilt that people can experience of like, well, if I don't work out, or if I don't do this, then we can squeeze this extra thing in or I could go and do this extra thing. You know, maybe it's more important for the kids to make the gingerbread houses than it is for me to have lunch with my girlfriend, right? And so it kind of starts the the equations start to shift. And so I think, you know, it's a wonderful thing about our culture to put other people first but the challenge is that when we do that over a long period of time we burn out. And so I think that's another piece of that intentionality is really keeping a check on the guilt that can come any holiday season but just any day of any of our lives, right like there's always going to be more that not just that we feel like we should do what we want to do. Then we And so again, just that intentionality and getting okay with whatever has to be left off, right? Like, maybe Auntie needs to get a card instead of a face to face visit this year and we'll try to hit her next year. That's great, right? Like, we just have to be mindful of not letting ourselves feel bad about whatever we can't get to. Yeah,

absolutely.

Actually, I want to respond to something you said yet, which is that you're talking about December, was it who's going to be associated? I think, one of the really important things, it's okay to not be okay. I know, it's a really used phrase. But that's really like what our clinic and other clinics like ours are there for. It's okay. You don't need to figure out if you're not feeling okay, reach out, get support. I think the holidays really do bring that up. There are a lot of expectations, especially let's say this is a holiday, we're not going to be able to be let in. But there's a lot of disappointment around that or what genuine said, the year they quit. No, that's too late, certainly couldn't travel, we couldn't, you know, have their goodbye to California in the way they wanted to have it. Right. So being okay, with acknowledging disappointment. You know, as a mental health professional, obviously, we don't want people to get stuck in the kind of like, only looking at the negative things. But I think in order to be able to kind of refocus on for example, okay, we can't do this, but what can we do is you have to acknowledge the disappointment, or you have to acknowledge what isn't the way you wish it could be? Right, because I think that's a piece that if, if you try to kind of gloss that over, or pretend that you don't feel that way, it actually makes that feeling get bigger. And so I think like the real messages, reach out for support, whether it's on the professional level, or whether it's for friends, or family, I think kind of, you know, it's not what we're talking about today. But there's a big stoicism and kind of like just powering through as part of military cultures. It's not just the service person, but families sort of take that on, like, you know, we have to be okay, no matter what we cannot let like, and I think to kind of, you don't need to do that, like you, you will actually be more resilient to be able to do more you can acknowledge and the areas where you're struggling, and kind of get the support that you need to be able to get back to all the other responsibilities that you have in your life being able to manage. Yeah,

it's actually interesting how we repel disappointment, and you know, yeah, disappointment. It's like, you want to try to avoid that feeling as much as possible and work around as much as possible, but it comes back, like twice as hard.

I mean, this is so like, so many things. I'm like, so what are your actual tips for 12 year olds? Like, that's really nice, really, what was going through my brain? Like, a little trouble there? You know, no, I mean, I can say honestly, for my family, like one of the things that has helped us, regardless of where we lived, and what our holiday situation was gonna look like, you know, for us to do something as our family of four. And now I say that fully acknowledging that, for all of these years, my husband has not been deployed over like the holiday season. And so it has been for our family of four. And it's that we do new Christmas pajamas, movie and hot chocolate like and that is in varying degrees, like some years, it's new, all three, some years, it's one thing is new, and we put on our favorite movie, like this year, it's probably going to be that we pull up whatever's on Netflix, we want to watch, we throw on like our sweat pants, and we drink some new hot chocolate, because last year when we, you know, go bigger, go home, we got all new things that we can reuse this year, you know, and that's been super helpful. It's something that my kids look forward to that's like kind of the thing that we do for the holiday, regardless of where we lived. And regardless of whether or not other people were joining us, or we were joining other people, you know, but as far as that managing expectation and disappointment, you know, I have a 10 year old and well, by the time this podcast comes out a 12 year old, he'll be 12 on Thursday, you know, and I am just finding like, oh my gosh, I am so grateful for the many years I've had, you know, good mental health help, because, you know, his solution is not going to work. Like, you know, we were dealing with some middle school stuff this morning and everything. I said, Well, we have this and we have this or we could do this and we could do this and it was like no, it's not gonna work. No, it's not gonna work. That's it? You know, and I think you know, the same is already coming up about the holidays, if it doesn't look exactly like they think it's going to look, it's an automatic fail, and really trying to help too little people whose brains are not fully I mean, let's be honest, I'm a fully functioning adult. I'm almost 40 And there are days that I'm like, this sucks. I don't want to do it. Everything is Terrible, like set it all on fire and start over. You know, so trying to help two people that aren't fully developed, like really good come to terms with, yes, this is different. And also, it's not bad. You know, as a parent, it is sometimes very difficult. And also, I am grateful for the really good, like therapy I've received so that I can walk them through those things to the best of my ability

Jennylyn some of the strategies like are obviously more specific to a specific kid, because not every kid is, is the same. But as on a general level, I find that one of the things that can trip parents up is that you're already stressed out, right. So you don't want to necessarily hear your child complain, because you already have a lot of guilt, maybe about moving about not being able to do some things. But I think something that can be very powerful kids is to just if you can make space to just listen to them. And you don't have to necessarily have a solution, I think just to feel heard is such a basic human need. And to be able to provide that for your child that hey, like, they can tell you how much it sucks, right? How much they're gonna miss their friends how much they wish. And all you need to then say is maybe give them a hug and say, I know, yeah, I wish it wasn't like this. I'm so glad that you could tell me how you're feeling. And then they feel heard and validated. And then you can sort of then all pivot together to like, Okay, how are we going to make the best of this? It sounds so simple, but it's actually hard to do. Just because, you know, like, like, Alia started off with, like, you know, how human we are and the humaneness of all this. Yeah, parents are humans. And as humans, we're impacted. And sometimes, you know, as much as I want to be able to provide for our kids, our kids push our buttons to, we just kind of want them to get with a program and not have an extra need that we need to take care of. But I think, you know, making it as simple as basic as just let me hear them out. It's what I would want someone to just listen to me, I don't necessarily need someone to solve the problems all the time. I just know, I need someone to, like, hear how I'm feeling how I'm experiencing what's going on. And just say, it's gonna be you know, I hear you, I love you, you know, we're going to get through this together.

Yeah, you know, coming from a family where acts of service is their way of showing love. If my family were to give me words of affirmation, growing up, I think I would be in a better place today, although I don't think I turned out bad. But still, like, you're right. I agree with you, Joanna, even if my mom had just, you know, validated my feelings growing up rather than fixing it, or not even acknowledging it at all, like just stonewalling me, I think it would have made to be a lot better. So I think that's a great advice to give to parents, especially for these upcoming holidays is to just sit with them and validate their feelings and be there with them.

I mean, I think Joanna is so good at what she does. And I think that you know that that is so hard when you're stressed as a family member as a loved one. And so I think to kind of recap on what Joanna had pointed to before is, if that's hard, right? Reach out for that help. Like, it does not have to be a crisis moment, you know, if you want to be able to be supportive to your kids, but they are pushing your buttons, and you just need a little extra help. So you can be grounded for you and for them, like you have the supports available. And I think that is the best news, right is that we can help parents through this. And partners, right? Because I think that's the other piece of that we do a lot is work with couples and families. And I think it's even harder when it's another adult or it to be like, you know, so being you know, clear with your communication of, you know, I am asking you for support right now, I don't want you to fix anything, I don't want you to throw a solve at me, I just need you to let me rant at you about how bummed I am that we can't do X, Y or Z this holiday. And I wish that we didn't have to go to your parents because I want to go to my hair, whatever it is. And it's okay to just bend right in for the partner to just be able to be supportive, just like you would with a kiddo. I think that's one of the number one pitfalls that we see for couples that we work with and CO parents that we work with is that they're not being clear about what they need in that moment. Right. So just that, hey, I'm asking for support, or I'm asking for help and problem solving. Right, that has avoided a lot of arguments for a lot of people that we work with, you know, as well as ourselves. So

yeah, for sure. Yeah, I feel like the overarching theme is, you know, your mental health doesn't have to go on break in the holiday season. It should in fact, be fully supported. And of course, we have resources such as the Cohen clinic, you know, available should you need that during the holiday season. Okay, awesome. So as we start to wrap up, you know, I really just appreciated our conversation. I feel like I got a lot out of it. And I feel like the little girl in me who was a military child feels validated, you know, by this conversation. So thank you for everything that you shared today. And of course, there's so much more we could share. But you know, for the sake of time, Leah, why don't you share some resources as we close out our conversation that people can refer to after the

show? Awesome. Yeah. And so I think just as much as you know, we said Don't wait till there's a crisis. Also, just I always like to plug if there is a crisis. This, the Veterans Crisis Line is excellent. So that's 800-273-8255. Press one if you're a veteran or calling about a veteran. And other than that we love the club veterans network partners with is that for Warriors, so it's a peer to peer 24/7 hotline as well as chat there at 858388255. So again, even if you feel like you're alone during the holidays, if if a partner is deployed, if you can't be in your family, there are 24/7 resources to support you and your loved ones.

Awesome. Thank you, Leah. Joanna, any other resources you want to add on top of that?

Well, I think there was always military one source to like, just be able to reach out to and see like how they can connect you to whatever other resources or any liaisons that you know, you know, are there that to help connect your family to other supports, whether within the military or outside of the military? I would encourage families to use, you know, any and all resources that are available to them.

Awesome. Yeah, I think it's really important to flood our military families with all these resources for the holidays, in hopes that they'll use at least one should they need it. So yeah, thank you, again, Leah, and Joanna, so much for joining us, January. And I know that you have some resources as well, you want to share before we close out.

I do. You know, in addition to the excellent partners that Leah and Joanna mentioned, we had the Coen veterans network also have several resources actually available on our website. So if you are not in immediate crisis, and in need of immediate help, we do have something called the tools for stress and worry, it's a self paced course that basically walks you through how to help yourself kind of come down from some of those anxious feelings and stress and worry, especially during the holidays, it is not a holiday course. But of course, with the added stress of the holidays, it is something great that you can do for yourself on your own time. On the other thing on our website is CBN presents, and it's people like Leah and Joanna from across our network who have recorded awesome, you know, basically training videos on everything from insomnia, to anxiety to trauma care. And you can watch any of those on you know, through the link on our website, they come up on YouTube, if there's a particular topic that you're looking for some extra help on. And as always, you know, come on veterans network.org You can see where current 19 clinics are open across the country. You can also see the fun red dots that are that coming soon. Chances are we are in a neighborhood that you're in and if not, you know we may actually still serve your area call the clinic closest to you to find out the resources near you.

Yes. So really what we're saying is there are no excuses to mental health. We say that with love we say with love. Again, Leah, Joanna Jennylyn thank you so much for this conversation today and to our listeners, happy holidays. We hope that you enjoy the holidays and you set your intentions right and your expectations and please don't put your mental health on break as well. With that being said, thank you all so much for joining us and we'll chat with you in the next episode. Till next time