Shownotes
The Fellowship Of The Reel reviews
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BLADE RUNNER 1982-----*-----
Everywhere we are, all at once.
https://linktr.ee/fellowshipofthereel
Tell us what you think of the movie. Would you give it a PASS, CONSIDER, or a RECOMMEND?
Have a movie to suggest? A comment to make?
You have ninety seconds. ACTION!
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To listen to all of Chris' picks, click HERE
To listen to all of Sherry's picks, click HERE
To listen to all of James' picks, click HERE
To listen to all of Phil's picks, click HERE
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Snyder's Genres:
MONSTER IN THE HOUSE - MONSTER, HOUSES, SIN
GOLDEN FLEECE - ROAD, TEAM, PRIZE
OUT OF THE BOTTLE - A WISH, A SPELL, A LESSON
DUDE WITH A PROBLEM - AN INNOCENT HERO, A SUDDEN EVENT, A TEST OF SURVIVAL
RITE OF PASSAGE - A LIFE PROBLEM, THE WRONG WAY TO FIX IT, THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM
BUDDY LOVE - AN INCOMPLETE HERO, A COUNTERPART NEEDED TO MAKE THEIR LIFE WHOLE, A COMPLICATION THAT IS KEEPING THEM APART EVEN THOUGH THAT FORCE IS BINDING THEM TOGETHER
WHYDUNNIT? - A DETECTIVE, A SECRET, A DARK TURN
FOOL TRIUMPHANT - A FOOL, AN ESTABLISHMENT, A TRANSMUTATION
INSTITUTIONALIZED - A GROUP, A CHOICE, A SACRIFICE (JOIN, BURN IT DOWN, COMMIT SUICIDE)
SUPERHERO - A POWER, A NEMESIS, A CURSE
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The Snyder Beats:
OPENING IMAGE
THEME STATED
SETUP
CATALYST
DEBATE
BREAK INTO TWO
B STORY
FUN AND GAMES
MIDPOINT (FALSE VICTORY OR DEFEAT BUT OPPOSITE OF THE ALL IS LOST)
BAD GUYS CLOSE IN
ALL IS LOST (OPPOSITE OF THE MIDPOINT, FALSE VICTORY OR DEFEAT)
DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL
BREAK INTO THREE
gathering the team
executing the plan
high tower surprise
dig deep down
execution of the new plan
FINALE
FINAL IMAGE
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"Welcome to the Show" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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Transcripts
Blade Runner Final Cut
[:[00:00:05] Chris: this, like, I felt like all the exposition was very, very tight. Well done. Does
[:[00:00:15] Sherry: That's like Ricky Bobby, he's covering his bases. Yeah, same with Tom Cruise,
[:[00:00:18] Phil: Yeah. Go ahead and say
[:[00:00:23] Phil: It,
[:[00:00:29] Phil: going. [00:00:30]
[:[00:00:33] Phil: a lot. That was the weakest part of that scene. Sure.
[:[00:00:44] Phil: Alright, here we are, Fellowship of the Real, recording another episode. This time it is Blade Runner. We will do Blade Runner and then the second recording session for this will be Hot Fuzz. This I've seen this movie a bunch of times and we'll, we'll get into the critics a little bit because I [00:01:00] think this movie has changed.
[:[00:01:07] James: movie had how many different versions?
[:[00:01:14] Chris: theatrical cut, final cut, international cut, and then, yeah, there's one
[:[00:01:21] James: I think there was one, like an international cut found at an archive somewhere that Ridley Scott had to [00:01:30] re edit and then that became the final cut that we watched.
[:[00:01:40] Chris: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. No. Yeah. So I watched both the actual cut and final cut for this podcast. Yeah. I've seen them before. I don't know that I've ever seen the international and,
[:[00:01:56] Phil: The theatrical, because I remember a different ending from the [00:02:00] final cut. Hmm. Interesting. Yeah, the theatrical, I think, has them driving away in a car.
[:[00:02:11] Phil: With a comment on their mortality or whatever. Interesting. Yeah, because
[:[00:02:22] Chris: So that she doesn't have to live to, you know. You know, who knows? Right. So as opposed to, you know, that's the big thing in the movie that we'll get into. But yeah, [00:02:30] they're inspiring and right.
[:[00:02:50] Phil: So I want to hear what you guys. What evidence you think there is that he is or isn't. Mm-Hmm. . And that's Harrison Ford. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So
[:[00:03:00] Phil: to be made. Okay. Well I'll be interested to hear it. 'cause I, yeah, I, I guess I wasn't sharp enough to pick up on it. Yeah. And that may just
[:[00:03:13] James: Yeah. That thing, so one
[:[00:03:30] Phil: Why is the movie cut up so much?
[:[00:03:55] Phil: you know, yeah, yeah, all right.
[:[00:04:10] So
[:[00:04:13] Phil: Absolutely. Depending on how it goes, it could be giggle too hard and then shit, because right.
[:[00:04:47] Phil: Okay, Sheri. Okay. Y'all ready? I think so.
[:[00:05:01] Phil: That's from Clash of the Titans, right? Yeah. Liam Neeson. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Well, say now, I guess it's been parody because I was thinking is it from the movie or is it from Some movie that parried it, cause I They probably did, but I'm sure I've heard that in other movies.
[:[00:05:21] James: I think of streaming services. I just, I just, see in my head, I see Liam Neeson stepping down and saying, Release
[:[00:05:28] Chris: just now, but Clash of the Titans is a [00:05:30] remake.
[:[00:05:32] Sherry: We saw the original in school,
[:[00:05:34] Chris: is the, that line in the original, do I I know, I, I don't know, because I always think with you, James, I always think of Liam Neeson saying it, but that's from the newer one. Yeah, yeah,
[:[00:05:45] Phil: accent. Yeah. I, I, right, right.
[:[00:05:48] Sherry: Ready? All right. The next one. This is what I, I like this movie anyway. It ain't got no gas in it.
[:[00:05:56] James: almost said cone heads, but that was wrong. That's when he puts the [00:06:00] spark plug in his mouth.
[:[00:06:04] James: Yeah. Ain't got no gas
[:[00:06:19] Sherry: He's just an amazing actor. He's on Goliath.
[:[00:06:25] Chris: in season one of Fargo.
[:[00:06:30] Phil: them. He's he's going to be starring in I guess a series by the guy who did the Kevin Cosner thing. Oh yeah. He's in town.
[:[00:06:39] Sherry: be in town or he was in town.
[:[00:06:43] James: I think my wife saw them last week filming something off 377 in Fort Worth. She was like, Oh, there's two trucks. Blah, blah, blah. I was like, Oh, okay.
[:[00:07:05] Sherry: Yeah. I think, I think Billy Bob was just recently spotted in Joe T.
[:[00:07:16] James: ago. Let me, Garcia's. It's fantastic that there is better and less crowded and cheaper in Fort Worth. So if you decide to come to Fort worth for food, Joe T's Garcia's, you don't have to stop [00:07:30] there.
[:[00:07:31] Phil: got a reputation. It's nice
[:[00:07:40] James: there once you go, you know, no offense to them. Not right. I'm from Texas. I've had great Mexican food, but Joe T Garcia's is just, I don't want to say like a tourist trap or a.
[:[00:07:58] Phil: Better for less
[:[00:08:02] James: no, I'm talking about like gas station tacos, man. Yeah, food truck tacos. Yeah, exactly.
[:[00:08:07] Sherry: really pronounce. Oh yeah. Okay. And then the last one. This one you hear it all the time. No one puts baby in a corner. Oh
[:[00:08:23] Phil: So you
[:[00:08:27] James: you know that's gonna be one of my picks.
[:[00:08:28] Chris: fine. First time [00:08:30] ever watching it.
[:[00:08:49] James: That's all I'm saying. If I caught her
[:[00:08:56] James: Maybe, but no, I had to veto it because as soon as it got to the [00:09:00] abortion thing, I'm like, you know what? I gave it 20 minutes. I'm out. I don't care about none of these people.
[:[00:09:06] Sherry: I just watched it again the other day. They, they filmed part of it in North Carolina. Part of it, I think it was in Pennsylvania, but part of it was in North Carolina. So growing up in South Carolina, we drove up one day and someone said, by the way, They filmed around the corner. So we drove up, nobody was up there.
[:[00:09:38] Chris: pretty cool.
[:[00:09:45] James: Well, yeah. But that's okay. We
[:[00:09:52] Sherry: What? What? I've never
[:[00:09:57] Phil: we need to watch Roadhouse. I think, I think we can do that.
[:[00:10:00] Chris: And I don't mind, I don't mind Dirty Dancing. You heard it here
[:[00:10:09] Phil: Eat your vegetables before you get dessert. That's right. All right. That's it, Sherry? Yeah.
[:[00:10:35] Phil: All right now I'm looking at the Rotten Tomatoes and we always say, take this with a grain of salt. I know we have to on this one, according to Rotten Tomatoes, it has an 89 percent tomato meter for critics and a 91 popcorn score for audience. But those numbers do not reflect how it was received.
[:[00:11:20] James: Right.
[:[00:11:26] Phil: Yes. Can you give another
[:[00:11:31] James: good, bad, and the ugly. Okay. Like one you should have seen, one that you should like.
[:[00:11:39] Phil: Like you
[:[00:11:43] Phil: or Yeah, some something like that. Like it's to me it almost I mean, it's a good movie We're gonna talk about it and I have a lot of questions and it's a lot of good discussion I think is gonna happen But to me, it's almost like movie snobbery.
[:[00:12:00] Chris: I was interested in if you're, if you're not, if you don't like Blade Runner, you're not a movie fan. Yeah. You don't know the very elitist,
[:[00:12:08] James: it's on the 10 movies you need to have. Yes.
[:[00:12:13] Chris: definitely know what you're saying. I mean, there's like, yeah, if you go down that list, right.
[:[00:12:28] Phil: Yes. Now [00:12:30] one of one article or a critic or somebody said that it was a flop and it didn't, wasn't received well, but it. Essentially kick started the cyberpunk genre that it, it is, it is hailed as an important movie because of the culture and style that it affected and created since it being made.
[:[00:12:54] Chris: Well, like try to picture a future world, like especially a cityscape and not compare it to [00:13:00] Blade Runner, like and how it looks in your mind and what we've seen. Yeah. Like that was, that was the first.
[:[00:13:13] Phil: Is that, is that right? I think that's what it's called. Yeah. But then, but then I, I can't remember if the author acknowledged or whatever that, that he sort of got influences from Blade Runner. So Blade Runner sort of created a genre, which is important I think. Does it hold up [00:13:30] as a watchable movie?
[:[00:13:49] James: So this is a combination of scores and money for all versions across.
[:[00:14:12] James: So it might be a messy number of a situation rating.
[:[00:14:44] Phil: International 8 million for a total of 41, 700, 000 on a budget of 28, 000. But I guess, initially, it was not well received, financially. Hmm. Yeah,
[:[00:15:02] Chris: How much of it, like how many people, cause Ridley Scott went on and did amazing things. Oh yeah. So did Harrison Ford. So how many of those, you know what I mean? Like people were, went and found this movie later because of Harrison Ford or because of Ridley Scott.
[:[00:15:18] Phil: Now I didn't know this. One of the reasons they suspect that it didn't do as well. Opening weekend or whatever because at the time it was up against E. T. and Wrath of Khan. Yeah, at the same time. Yeah, that's not [00:15:30] good. Yeah, I went to see E. T. And I saw both of those in the theater.
[:[00:15:38] Chris: Yeah, that was a bad call. Right. Going up against that. Yeah, and then a Family Fun movie. Yeah, but bad idea. Yes, but you can't always control the slot you get but.
[:[00:15:57] Phil: I think we've talked about other movies where they [00:16:00] said, well, they didn't know how to, I know Buckaroo Banzai was like that. They had no idea how to market that movie or even what it was about. And we've talked about this. Even the actors didn't know what it was about. That's an actual quote. So neither does the writer Phil.
[:[00:16:31] Phil: And so
[:[00:16:45] Chris: Yeah. And. Yeah, just watching, it's night, it's rainy, like, we're like, oh, he's on the Blade Runner playing it, you know what I mean, like it's, I don't remember what, I'm sure they told us what planet it was, but it's very much the aesthetic is, it's totally Blade Runner, with neon lights, and it's dark, and it's gloomy and rainy, so, [00:17:00] but yeah, but that would, how would that look if Blade Runner hadn't come
[:[00:17:03] Phil: Absolutely, no, I, no, I was watching Blade Runner, and, was drawing comparisons to the fifth element, both in the flying cars and in the, the city and this kind of thing. Yeah.
[:[00:17:23] Phil: it was sunny.
[:[00:17:36] Chris: more fun as far as Yes. Where you'd like to live.
[:[00:17:47] Phil: all style and very little substance. You know, you had pointless scenes, he said, and that's debatable, but, you know, out of context scenes and it's all just subtext, subtext, subtext and 100 percent style because it is very [00:18:00] stylistic. But I think it was so new and it invented a genre, so to speak. I think people didn't, maybe they didn't know how to market it, but they certainly maybe didn't know how to receive it either.
[:[00:18:10] Chris: thing we should mention I don't know if it's in your notes for later, but just, I was thinking about it. Blade Runner is based off the do androids dream of electric sheep
[:[00:18:24] Phil: And he was, I went on to do a total
[:[00:18:32] James: and looking on the IMDb notes, he was researching man in the high castle when he did this,
[:[00:18:40] James: he was doing apparently in the notes, he was looking over old Nazi.
[:[00:19:02] Phil: And that, that has influenced probably almost every AI robot movie.
[:[00:19:25] Phil: Become an important film, and I don't think it was recognized as such when it first came out. I [00:19:30] mean, yeah, important enough
[:[00:19:40] Chris: But, yeah, but the, you know, the Blade Runner 2049,
[:[00:19:51] Chris: Yeah, it has the same feel, which is good. Yeah,
[:[00:20:04] Phil: So, it's almost natural that as the genre formed. It would be done better and better, but it never would have been around if not for Blade Runner. Okay, we ready for to get into the beats then? Yeah. Yeah. Because this, yeah, I have some thoughts about this and I'm sure you guys too. Alright, let's get into the beats.[00:20:30]
[:[00:20:48] James: Yeah. I was a little confused. Yes.
[:[00:20:59] Phil: And I'm [00:21:00] fairly, because I went back and forth a bunch of times, but I'm fairly confident about my choices, but not confident enough to say that I think this is exactly how it is. So I'll be interested to say you guys. Pick it up because I think that it's not I think a lot of the beats are there and the acts are there But I think they're unbalanced
[:[00:21:19] Phil: and yeah, I bet you
[:[00:21:24] Phil: you cut a movie four times Because I because I would be interested and I don't know that I want to take the [00:21:30] time to do it See how the beats line up with the other versions whether they're More solid but they may be solid and I just not getting it.
[:[00:21:39] James: than I do. No, I can't,
[:[00:21:57] Phil: They're illegal on earth. And then I had a question that I think [00:22:00] is answered later, what about other planets? Are there other planets? So I was trying to get a grasp on this world, because then they talk about off world colonies. A golden opportunity, apparently. Dekker actually asked this question, why do they risk coming back to Earth?
[:[00:22:38] Phil: And, and that's. The future they're showing us, you know, 37
[:[00:22:43] Chris: future. Yeah. I feel like it's a, it was a trend, particularly like in eighties movies to like, all right, we're going to have this, you know, crazy future that's different from what we got going on. They don't, they didn't go far enough ahead.
[:[00:23:13] Chris: Yeah, not for about 40 years. Well, here we are 40 years later and yeah, we're not, I mean, we're getting closer. Terminator. That's a rabbit
[:[00:23:23] Chris: and shit. But anyhow, yeah, I don't, why didn't they go 60 years? Why didn't they go 70? Yeah, they definitely didn't go like, like fifth element.
[:[00:23:33] Phil: the future. So it's yeah. Well, and the thing is it, it very quickly makes the movie dated, right? Because I think Demolition Man did the same thing. Yeah.
[:[00:23:47] James: Right, right. If we keep going the way we're going with Reaganomics, this is what we're gonna be. Yeah. Because it was 82. That was That's true. Dead of Reagan. Hey, we keep going this, it's gonna be Sure. Giant corporations with megaliths in cities and no animals and no [00:24:00] water and Yeah.
[:[00:24:04] Phil: Yeah.
[:[00:24:05] Phil: scared. Yeah. And definitely dis open and buy Coca-Cola. Yeah. Buy Coca-Cola. Enjoy Coke. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. The Leon Kowalski test, okay? Waste disposal employee, sometimes I'll write down the things about the character, like for instance, he lives at 1187 Hunter Vossel Hotel.
[:[00:24:23] Chris: the hotel. Yeah. Where I live. Right. I
[:[00:24:29] James: It's alright. I [00:24:30] have it on here as Leon fails a test. Yes.
[:[00:24:47] Phil: He's good. Well, he can breathe okay if you don't unplug him. I, I did initially did not connect that that was the Holden he was talking about. Right. The, the two questions, he only gets really about two [00:25:00] questions the test reaction time is important, so please the thing about the turtle and then good things about your mother, which then you have, you have Kowalski fails the test.
[:[00:25:14] James: he was mad about
[:[00:25:28] Phil: I [00:25:30] don't know what other tests he was cause he's sort of wearing like a hospital gown. Yeah. Or yeah. Like he's been, like he's been through some tests. Right.
[:[00:25:43] Phil: Yeah. Well, they, they
[:[00:25:48] James: Interviewing everybody again because of these replicants, new employees. Yes. Yeah. They're, they're testing everybody to make sure. Yeah. Cause
[:[00:25:57] James: it was a, it was a bizarre edit [00:26:00] because let me tell you about my mother. Then he's standing up with a gun in his hand shooting.
[:[00:26:04] Phil: that come from? Yeah. Like, like, yeah. My question is if he's been through tests, how did they not discover he had a gun under his hospital gown, but right. You know, his underwear, I guess. Sure. So I balked at that a little somewhere. To me, that was one of those things, because, because then, you know, and this is the danger.
[:[00:26:35] Chris: the I mean that would have been a good visual way to establish their their You know extra strength
[:[00:26:41] Phil: Yeah later. They say you can lift 400 pounds Right all day and night, you know, yeah, like the sequel does a
[:[00:27:04] Chris: Yeah.
[:[00:27:04] Phil: yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's, that's essentially the setup. We're introduced to the replicants, how we got here what Blade Runners are, and we meet Kowalski and Holden. I liked
[:[00:27:15] Phil: I was sad to see him go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's a
[:[00:27:24] Chris: Yeah. He's just bored, like smoking a cigarette. Like he had no idea what was coming. He [00:27:30] clearly had gotten complacent in his job.
[:[00:27:40] Chris: Yeah, other than the gun actually showing up, I mean, I think it's a good setup, like it's Yes, I, I know, I, I, I do too.
[:[00:27:50] Phil: Yes, I think the viewer is automatically starting to ask questions. Okay, well what is What are they? Why are they testing? You know?
[:[00:28:01] Phil: Well, yeah, because it was very you know, it's like asking the question, well, you know, how long, you know, when did you stop beating your wife?
[:[00:28:23] Phil: This is always sort of a, a gnarly point. What do you guys peg as the theme [00:28:30] stated in this movie? Were you able to sort of focus on anything thematically that this movie was asking or? I was,
[:[00:28:46] James: Right. Okay. Is a will to live make you human? Because all these replicants want is more time.
[:[00:29:02] Phil: Yes. I think that's definitely in there. Definitely not wrong. That's all I wanted to hear. Definitely not wrong. No,
[:[00:29:13] Phil: No
[:[00:29:23] Phil: Absolutely. And if any thoughts, Chris, beyond that, or.
[:[00:29:32] Chris: Yeah.
[:[00:29:36] Chris: Okay. You
[:[00:29:40] Chris: when I said, James nailed it. He goes, oh, okay. Oh, alright. Pump the break. Here's, here's what I, whoa, whoa, whoa. James Neely.
[:[00:29:47] James: is James we're
[:[00:29:49] Phil: I, I, I struggled with this, but. I, I was looking at sort of what they were talking about because, because I always look early for the theme. It's [00:30:00] supposed to be within the first five or 10 minutes. So I want to assume that something in there has to be it. Now, it's not always that case. Sometimes it's way later.
[:[00:30:31] Phil: Okay. The replicants are struggling for life, but neither Deckard or anyone else is helping. And I wrote, is this question, is this the question theme then? Will or should one help another struggling for life even though the one struggling is not like you? The turtle was put into this position and so were the replicants, right?
[:[00:31:09] Phil: Yes. And no one is helping. And we find out later, apparently there is no way to help because you know, you create viruses or does it, you know, when they try to Terrell is telling baddie, which we can get into that name, but baddie is, is, is, is suggesting all these things that they could do. And he says, we already did that.
[:[00:31:32] James: notes said Batty, but he kept calling him Roy. I'm like, who the fuck is Batty? Why is he Batty?
[:[00:31:46] Phil: Like does that I don't know. You don't like Roy Batty? Well, it's, it just seems like an odd choice, Roy Batty. I don't know what I would have suggested. All their names are a little Yeah, their names are weird. [00:32:00] Zora and Pris. Yeah. The girls get one name. Pris, yeah. And then Leon Kowalski. Which are, they're fairly just sort of low key common names.
[:[00:32:31] Phil: Okay. Well he was
[:[00:32:33] Phil: guess. I guess. Like maybe he
[:[00:32:39] Phil: name. Roy Batty. Cause he seems, cause Rutger Hauer, his character. Seems badass and then it's Roy. Yeah. Yeah.
[:[00:32:54] Chris: Who's baddie. Like it was always Roy baddie in my mind, but I'm sure as you're saying, if there was confusion, then [00:33:00] you know, I've just, I've seen enough times that it didn't confuse me. I wasn't
[:[00:33:10] Phil: Never bothered me.
[:[00:33:11] Phil: fucking name. Weird movie. Like, yeah. And, you know, because he's because he's a combat specialist badass, but you don't necessarily want to be Roy badass then. Well, you're not necessarily supposed to focus on that aspect of Rutger Hauer. It's the guy, it's the, it's the creature trying to survive having been flipped over kind of thing.
[:[00:33:53] Phil: Yeah. Of this guy because he's just a guy trying to live, you know? True.
[:[00:34:05] Phil: They could have named him anything, just as a designator. Yeah. Yeah. Alright.
[:[00:34:13] Chris: I think Phil's was better. Oh the tortoise thing Yeah, I hadn't fucking never thought of that. Well, I mean, yeah, I like I've got a high school
[:[00:34:21] Phil: Master's degree No,
[:[00:34:32] Phil: Even
[:[00:34:34] Chris: Like what are the replicants, right? Like I was like, that was kind of a weird I was like, all right, they're establishing turtles don't fucking exist in this world. I guess we never see one But it's more the animals are dead But all the animals are dead. Yeah, but it's more than that. It's you know, what's a tortoise?
[:[00:34:52] Phil: And, and so if you think about it, that's good. You have human and replicant tortoise, tortoise, tortoise. Turtle and tortoise, right? So [00:35:00] same thing the same thing and a replicant in a human look like the same thing, right?
[:[00:35:21] James: have to that much. What are you saying?
[:[00:35:25] Chris: stated. It's stated in the first
[:[00:35:43] Chris: Especially when you're watching something and you know, all right, I know I'm missing something. Let me give this another shot. Yeah. And then, oh shit, bam, there it is. Light bulb. Or sometimes you're like, I still don't get this fucking movie,
[:[00:35:58] Phil: She she may or may not ever [00:36:00] say anything about this movie just because This was so out of her wheelhouse. Oh my god. Okay. Oh, yeah,
[:[00:36:17] James: Yeah,
[:[00:36:18] Sherry: the same thing that I did when I watched the movie.
[:[00:36:23] Phil: that's what Stace did. She went into this movie with dread,
[:[00:36:33] Chris: This is a weird movie, dad. Yep. Jump. It is. Sure
[:[00:36:42] Chris: We'll
[:[00:36:55] Phil: The, what does it mean to be Human. What does it mean to struggle for life? [00:37:00] And, you know, so it's, it's, it's essentially the same thing. I think they use the turtle as a metaphor to sort of maybe give some layers to that because there we could talk about this when we get to it, but on two different occasions, that guy that works for Bryant that comes and gets.
[:[00:37:18] James: Edward James almost.
[:[00:37:34] Phil: There are three. Oh, there are three. What's the third one? The unicorn's the last one. Oh, yes. When, yeah. First one's the chicken. He finds it on the floor. Yes. Chicken. And then
[:[00:37:44] Phil: and then the, yeah, the unicorn. Now it's interesting to me because again, I went hunting about, that's gotta mean something because there's a, a closeup on it every time.
[:[00:38:15] Phil: So you have the origami lone figure and then you have the bird and at the end you have Batty alone holding a pigeon or a dove or whatever it is. Alone and then, and obviously dying. So I didn't, I didn't know if [00:38:30] there was some significance to these. Is the director, writer, whoever, foreshadowing the end of the movie with these figures, or?
[:[00:38:39] Chris: don't know. Yeah, I mean, I've heard two different things, like, if you go, I don't know if we want to go down this rabbit hole yet, but if, if Deckard is a replicant, Yeah. And then I guess somehow Gaff had access to, because the memories are implanted, Yeah. Right, he had access to those, so he knew, because he clearly, he, you know what I mean, he didn't have the same dream as him, right, because Deckard dreams about the unicorn.
[:[00:39:18] Chris: Right. Damn. Sure. Doesn't like it would've been way cooler if he had done something, but hell have, if I, that's one of my notes. If what if they had rewritten this thing and it was him Gaff and Decker, who clearly had this animosity or teamed up and [00:39:30] forced to work together, that would've been interesting.
[:[00:39:48] Chris: He's calling him a chicken for not, for refusing the assignment. Okay. So what
[:[00:39:54] Chris: and he is smitten with her. And because it is not just a lone dude, he's got a, an erection, the, the stick figure has a heart on. [00:40:00] Oh, does it? I did, I did. Oh,
[:[00:40:02] Chris: Or a third leg.
[:[00:40:22] Phil: You know, no, he's a chicken with a heart on me. And then finding
[:[00:40:37] Phil: in Rachel. Yes, absolutely now, whether or not he's a replicant, I want to get into it maybe at the end after we go through everything and talk about the movie, but if he's not a replicant and he knows she is, it doesn't seem weird that he's fallen in love with a robot.
[:[00:41:04] James: the, she was the experiment of the main guy
[:[00:41:08] Chris: Well, yeah. And it took her, I don't remember what the numbers
[:[00:41:13] Phil: It usually takes 20 or 30.
[:[00:41:19] Phil: Yeah. All right. Opening image. Now the opening image comes late. If we're restricting ourselves to the opening image of the main character, which is Decker. Yes. Yes. All right. [00:41:30] So all that came before is not necessarily the opening image.
[:[00:41:41] James: to have the guy translate for
[:[00:41:46] James: time. He's like, what is he saying?
[:[00:41:51] Phil: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[:[00:41:57] Phil: Yeah. Yeah. Unless he's fucking with Gaff, you know.
[:[00:42:07] Chris: Yeah. And in the voiceover, he goes, I knew what he said, but I wanted to mess with them or whatever. Yeah, sure. Yeah. That stuff, like little stuff like that is where you mess with the voiceover. So I made a note about that. It's like, yeah, that's cool. But then city speak never comes up ever again. Yeah, well.
[:[00:42:21] Phil: I had a note that, that Blade Runner, since Blade Runner, it's not the first time. to make sort of a dystopian future, like, because [00:42:30] I didn't know at first whether this was just Chinatown or whether this was society, because the, the heavy Oriental influence, like in the future, China or whatever has basically taken over in it.
[:[00:42:55] Chris: A better done in
[:[00:43:05] Phil: And even
[:[00:43:09] Phil: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was like, yeah. Like they had taken over, I guess. Yes. Absolutely. Uber, noire, rain, dark streets, trench coat. Reading paper, Deckard, a Blade Runner, not police. Called to see the police what I call a noir relationship with the police.
[:[00:43:41] Phil: Yes. Is
[:[00:43:45] Phil: Yes. Well, that's all he does. Well, when he goes to Bryant, he said it, it was quit before and it's double quit now when he's refusing to call. Yeah. Chris quit when I walk in here. I don't work here anymore. So at some point he was a Blade runner. For the police.
[:[00:44:01] Phil: doesn't know how to pronounce. Right. Yes. Reading the, I'm assuming the wan ads because we never find out what he's, what he's. Yeah, that would've been good. That would've
[:[00:44:13] Chris: Yes. But
[:[00:44:18] James: ago. Because he's wearing a. All right, Deckard, come back. Oh, I double
[:[00:44:37] Phil: I'd rather see him like on a case and sitting there, yeah, some, some hardball detective noir trope to, to establish that this is
[:[00:44:54] Phil: You could do that.
[:[00:45:12] Phil: I rank high in insubordination. But you immediately get his character that Marlow does not deal with authority if he thinks it's, you know, right. And so I would have liked to have seen more of that with Decker because we don't, he looks like it, but we never find out what, what his, Maybe he just
[:[00:45:31] James: Totally. Maybe now he's just a regular old gumshoe like dealing with. Petty
[:[00:45:41] James: with the imaging, scanning equipment.
[:[00:45:45] Chris: Yes. He just forgot to turn that back in when he quit, you know? Right.
[:[00:45:53] Phil: Yeah. Apparently TV's got a lot smaller in the future. Like there's no screen in his house that's bigger than Right. That's, you know, [00:46:00] whatever. They got that one wrong,
[:[00:46:02] Phil: Yeah. Eh, do they? Look at our phones. We're totally
[:[00:46:10] Phil: now, you know?
[:[00:46:13] Chris: movies on his phone than on the TV, and I'm like, you know, and I'm like, what?
[:[00:46:16] Chris: 80 inches, man! How do you watch a movie on your phone? It drives
[:[00:46:27] Phil: Or his opening image, I'm sorry. Yeah. I just had one quick note and he's [00:46:30] alone,
[:[00:46:38] James: Like he's alone in a city of
[:[00:46:41] James: He's on the rainy street eating, trying to eat noodles by
[:[00:46:45] Phil: Right. That he can't pronounce. Yes. No, no. Yeah. And at the end, obviously he is protecting and running and with, with somebody. Yeah. So something
[:[00:46:58] Phil: now that that's sort of [00:47:00] now you got me on this
[:[00:47:13] Phil: he goes play with the play with the yeah, because we can get into this and I have notes about it before, but he doesn't seem to be okay.
[:[00:47:44] Phil: Well, you know, I'm not in the business. I am the business. I thought that was very good Yeah, it's a good one. Yes. Yeah, even after he kills
[:[00:47:53] Phil: upset about it. Yes, so apparently Because he's also hailed by Brian as being the [00:48:00] toughest of the tough, and the best of the best, so at some point I need the old Blade Runner, I need the best.
[:[00:48:10] Chris: Yeah, it's like, it's like you had a shit case and then we don't ever hear enough about that to make him the way he is. Yes. Why,
[:[00:48:25] Phil: And I was thinking of unforgiven, right? William Money or whatever, his opening image is a pig [00:48:30] farmer and his wife changed him and all that, but even just through a monologue, we get this idea that, you know, I shot a drover and blew the teeth out the back of his head. And when he's trying to kill that kid, you could see him struggling.
[:[00:49:06] Phil: All right, so that is essentially the opening image, the catalyst. What did you guys have? I think it's, I think it's clear, but what did you guys have for the catalyst?
[:[00:49:19] Phil: That's what I had. Yeah. Mhm.
[:[00:49:24] Phil: and yeah, well, I'm
[:[00:49:27] Chris: I'm twice as quick now.
[:[00:49:44] Phil: And then I, again, the Philip Marlowe thing while he used to work for the district attorney, but scored high in insubordination. So at some point, and again, Deckard quit because he had qualms or was insubordinate or something caused him not to want to do this [00:50:00] anymore. I thought this was a powerful line, but it, cause I initially thought, well, maybe that's the theme, but it didn't make any sense as a theme to me.
[:[00:50:29] Phil: No choice, no [00:50:30] room for debate. Quite literally. Watches Kowalski test video and gets a briefing. So he he hesitates and debates Very very quickly. Yeah, like
[:[00:50:49] Chris: so maybe like if he'd had a more of a relationship with Holden like sure or if he, it would stretch it out more, but if you refused it, they put Holden on it, then Holden gets killed. Now, that spurs him to, to come
[:[00:51:04] Chris: they kill more people, right?
[:[00:51:18] Phil: stop these people and yeah, because now I'm thinking about the opening image, I think it would have been cool if Holden is still a Blade Runner, but uses Deckard as a private eye to help him with, you know, an investigator tracking stuff down and maybe [00:51:30] they're Yeah.
[:[00:51:48] Phil: We learned about the replicants. Leon Kowalski, weapons loader, Roy Batty, combat specialist, Zora, off world murder squad, which I guess means assassin. Pris is the basic pleasure model. We learned that there is a failsafe device of four year [00:52:00] lifespan. The inception for the four was 2016, it is now 2019, so seemingly they have a year or less to live, which is I guess their urgency.
[:[00:52:25] Phil: Daff. What is it? James Olmos. Gaff. Gaff, yeah. Like G A F F, I think. [00:52:30] Yeah, hover car to the second act at 13 minutes. So the first act to me seems very truncated at 13 minutes. Now it's a two hour movie, I get that, but I have the act break at around 13 minutes, which is early. What did, is that, what did you guys see as the second act, break into two, or whatever?
[:[00:52:47] Chris: the job, for sure. Yeah, okay.
[:[00:52:52] James: and then starting, I had trouble finding the beats on
[:[00:53:00] James: to mark it at like the 25 minute mark. Sure. The hour mark that and kind of see what was going on.
[:[00:53:06] Phil: lined up. I know it. The first act is way short to me. Now. The only thing that I now time-wise, I think the midpoint that I have. Is at the one hour mark, but I'm not even sure that that's really a strong midpoint. And it'd be interesting to see when we get there, what you guys think about that.
[:[00:53:37] Chris: is Rachel. Yeah.
[:[00:53:43] Phil: I said, not by a long shot. This movie is all black and all blue, right? . It is not too bright anywhere in this movie. Color and tone in the movie is blue and black, which is stylistic, you know, but some things were in total, like, yeah, it's hard to even see the characters sometimes. The replicants are [00:54:00] implemented with memories to make them more able to be controlled.
[:[00:54:09] Chris: don't know that Rachel is A replicant when she first comes in the room for we think she's an assistant or whatever, right? Yes Yes, I row and then he because he even says, you know, we're on the test who on you know, I'll do it on her Yeah, a negative
[:[00:54:21] Phil: Oh, yeah, assuming that she is a negative, right? You know,
[:[00:54:29] Phil: Yes [00:54:30] We talked about the unforgiving and that kind of thing right now, so he goes to test Rachel, and it takes a hundred or more questions now this is traditionally in a noir.
[:[00:54:58] Phil: Visit Kowalski's [00:55:00] hotel room, finds the scale. Here I started questioning the origami figures. We get a bird with a stick figure. I was not aware of you know, the stick figure which makes it clear now. And he finds Kowalski's photographs, which we learned Kowalski wants back. Did you
[:[00:55:17] Phil: photos?
[:[00:55:30] James: note. I had it as low pan, low pan is freezing. Yes.
[:[00:55:35] Phil: freezer. Even Sherry said, wasn't he? And I said big trouble. And I said, yeah. Yeah. So yes, this is low pan. Are
[:[00:55:42] Phil: problem? Now I guess I This is me off to no end. A guy with green eyes? Yeah, so apparently he's like With green eyes. It's like bucket seats with these people.
[:[00:56:02] Chris: big jacket on and I guess it's the heat that was going to it and they, yeah, they rip it off. Yes.
[:[00:56:07] Chris: clothes doing just fine.
[:[00:56:11] Phil: In the freezing thing. And he's putting it on top of
[:[00:56:14] Phil: his eyeballs. Yeah, just messing with him like. Now, now, that, that, it, it sort of occurs to me that's they're treating him. As not as, as sort of just a thing, which apparently is maybe how they treat the replicants.
[:[00:56:38] Chris: Yeah. I mean, they could have showed that too, if they wanted to, right? Like show them off world doing their thing.
[:[00:56:56] Chris: Right. Yeah. Treated
[:[00:57:06] Chris: Well, even the photos, right? Leon having photos and caring about photos is showing that there's, there are more, right? That's very much a human thing, right?
[:[00:57:17] Phil: Well, even even Batty when he, when there's just two of us now, like he, you can see him struggling and because they don't have a full range of emotions or have only had a limited time to sort of assess these emotions, it almost seems [00:57:30] childlike his, his grief, you know, like, like not a mature person, you know?
[:[00:57:53] Phil: You know, those aren't your memories, they're your nieces to almost sympathetic because then it says, you know, you want to drink and he [00:58:00] starts warming up. All right, bad joke. Yeah, right. So there is a transition in this scene. What I'm saying from a difference to dismissive, to sympathetic about Rachel.
[:[00:58:21] James: One thing that I found interesting was the story about the spider and the
[:[00:58:26] Phil: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was the niece's memory.
[:[00:58:40] James: That probably has to do with something. Oh,
[:[00:58:44] James: That's the rep. Yeah. The replicants memory
[:[00:58:54] James: and then he said, oh, bad joke.
[:[00:58:57] Phil: All right. All right. That's, I'm on board with that. [00:59:00] Yeah. Yeah. Score one for James. There you go. The fourth fun and game, Pris hunkering down on the street meets a gentle soul, J. F. Sebastian. And Sherry's question was, is that, is that was it Earl? Darryl, right? Darryl, my other brother Darryl, you know.
[:[00:59:14] Chris: And had a scene
[:[00:59:34] Phil: Yeah. Sebastian. She's meant to be
[:[00:59:43] Phil: to. Sort of, yeah, infiltrates
[:[00:59:50] Chris: Yeah, the music changes in her face. Yes.
[:[01:00:08] Chris: that world period, but all the
[:[01:00:13] Phil: You get the impression of, of overpopulation and that the whole. World is a big city now, but then J. S. J. F. Sebastian says that he lives in this building alone and it's falling apart and there's plenty of room for everybody, you know, because he's essentially the only one you just would have thought if there's a real [01:00:30] population, there would be no empty space anywhere, maybe a little disconnect.
[:[01:00:52] Phil: Deckard drunk sees visions of the white unicorn studies. One of Kowalski's photos. I guess that's Zora in the photograph, right? Yeah. It [01:01:00] turns out to be Zoa. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought bad's in there too.
[:[01:01:04] Phil: in on her. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought that originally that scale was I guess from a replica, but it's from the snake we find out later.
[:[01:01:30] Phil: Now I, I didn't look it up, but I, I always, I often wonder about stuff like that. Whether the writer, director, or somebody snuck that number in and it means something to them. I never did look it up, but Ben Hassan makes the snake. The buyer is from Chinatown, Taffy Lewis. Now this, this follows in the Noir tradition, a nightclub owning hood.
[:[01:01:52] James: And then it turns out to be a snake show, which is weird. And then I have on my little notes snakes. Why [01:02:00] did it have to be snakes?
[:[01:02:06] Chris: guess to me, the more enjoyable bits of the, of this movie. I mean, I liked the movie, but like now he's, now we're getting somewhere.
[:[01:02:23] Phil: Yeah. I thought this was one of the strengths of the movie.
[:[01:02:33] James: which was kind of creepy. Like he was inviting her to the show and she's like, that's not my
[:[01:02:43] Phil: Cause he's a vision of the white unicorn. Calls Rachel who shuts him down, but he is thinking about her, so at this point We can go somewhere else, Click. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. Alright. Number six, goes to see Zora acting as Now, this I I He goes to [01:03:00] Zora acting as a morality agent or something like that.
[:[01:03:26] Phil: Which you know, so I don't know. Yeah, I mean he [01:03:30] does it well and he's drunk. Yeah, and he's drunk
[:[01:03:33] Phil: running and she beat him up. Yeah, that is true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he need But afterwards he needs a drink Yeah. Clearly he is not ambivalent. So, again, he is struggling with it afterwards because he, he gets alcohol.
[:[01:03:55] Chris: Well, I like how you found her, like after she runs away, right? And she's under the, the crosswalk [01:04:00] thing. Yeah. It's like cross now, cross now, like he hears it.
[:[01:04:15] Chris: So I don't get shot.
[:[01:04:31] Chris: Like a false, false victory kind of thing? He's taking
[:[01:04:38] Phil: False defeat. Brian wants to see him again. Brian says there's four more to go. Deckard corrects, says three. The fourth is Rachel. She has fled, but he has started to think about Rachel sees her in the crowd and pursues,
[:[01:04:56] Chris: He's got what? Three more to go. Yes. And then bad guys close [01:05:00] in. Nope, you got one more and it's the girl that you're
[:[01:05:12] Phil: I had
[:[01:05:19] Phil: Yeah, that's good. I can see that there because it's just a little bit later. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I, I, I would almost be
[:[01:05:33] Chris: Right. If he continues to die.
[:[01:05:51] Phil: Leon asks questions about lifespans. Rachel saves Deckard. Retires Kowalski with Deckard's gun. Rachel's upset about it. Deckard says he gets the bad [01:06:00] shakes. We talked about this. I'm not in the business. I am the business. Now I guess this is not necessarily explored. Rachel tries to bargain for her life.
[:[01:06:20] Chris: Yeah. Right. And why North versus off world?
[:[01:06:30] James: If you're going to leave, we're going to put you on a moon in a mine somewhere. So you're not going to have the geography to know where Canada is or Mexico is. Right. So what if I just go north? Yeah. Well, you can't go north because there's nothing up
[:[01:06:42] Chris: Yeah, but I guess in the version where they're driving in the car at the end, I always assumed they were headed north.
[:[01:06:57] Chris: it's all one really long night and now [01:07:00] it's morning or there's an area where the Sun comes out Yeah, that's not how
[:[01:07:05] Chris: The
[:[01:07:10] Chris: no
[:[01:07:16] Chris: running to the sunrise.
[:[01:07:22] Chris: don't know. I just meant it was sunny. I don't know that we see the sun, but you are correct.
[:[01:07:25] Phil: Right. Go north and drive into the sun. Well, I think that was symbolic of, you know, a [01:07:30] brighter future or something. Even then they are still
[:[01:07:38] Chris: Did y'all, were you under the impression that they were fleeing?
[:[01:07:50] Chris: or something? No, I need that. No, I need my,
[:[01:07:56] Phil: Right. Oh my God. Yeah. So this is part of so the [01:08:00] first bad guys, Leon meets Decker and they fight. Then J. S. about J. F. Sebastian has the aging disease gets paid a visit. Roy Batty struggles with emotion and the loss of Zora and Leon. We talked about that. And then I thought Pris's comment was particular.
[:[01:08:33] Phil: Chess game. Checkmate invited up. So on this elevator they're playing Sebastian is telling Tyrell his, his next move, which creates a checkmate, only beat
[:[01:08:45] James: Long distance chess. Yeah. They usually call each other and say night
[:[01:08:53] Phil: Roy Batty struggles with motion. They have similar problems like a chess game. Then he, you know, so now Roy Batty says, I want more life, father. It's [01:09:00] not always, it's not every day that the creation gets to meet his creator or something. Right. Now in the
[:[01:09:10] Chris: Really? Yeah. And I noticed it one because I wrote it down. I don't know his delivery. I like it a lot. And then when I'm watching the fucking final cut, it's father. I'm like, Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, sorry, everyone. Did I hear that right? And then I look it up. Maybe I misheard it. Nope.
[:[01:09:24] Phil: That's what I heard versus
[:[01:09:29] Phil: Yeah. I think both [01:09:30] are definitely the angst and fucker, but father. He's like, what do you want? I
[:[01:09:37] Phil: Sinister. Yeah, it's more sinister. And then father is more Sympathetic or more Casting the relationship in light, you know, yeah Then Terrell says light that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
[:[01:10:09] Phil: I did too. You know. Because
[:[01:10:28] James: There's no hope. He's just going to [01:10:30] crush his
[:[01:10:33] Chris: friend. What he killed Tyrell if Tyrell had been like, well, here, let me give you the shot and you'll live four more years or something. Yeah, maybe not. Yeah. So, but he kills his
[:[01:10:41] James: F.
[:[01:10:54] Chris: Which seems he runs away from him,
[:[01:11:03] James: Yeah, not so much. Just I'm trying to live. I'm trying to do it. He's trying to yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess. Yeah. Cause I don't know. I
[:[01:11:15] James: They're kind of, they're not mass murderers right away. Anyway, you're
[:[01:11:23] Phil: I want, you know, yeah. Decker goes to Sebastian's apartment. He recommends based on a call from Brian, but they found the
[:[01:11:37] Chris: It makes me laugh every time. Forge
[:[01:11:40] James: is he registered and monitored? Get out of my, you
[:[01:11:46] Chris: The kids or the homeless people or whatever, they steal something off
[:[01:11:53] Phil: Yeah. When he gets to Sebastian's Chris is hiding in plain sight. I
[:[01:11:59] Phil: [01:12:00] attacks. Yes. That's
[:[01:12:02] Phil: was one of my scenes that I actually put my phone down and watched. You're talking about when Daryl
[:[01:12:08] Phil: When she's doing all that. You see her, you see her sitting there.
[:[01:12:20] Chris: I just
[:[01:12:29] James: That's what she looked like, [01:12:30] death metal
[:[01:12:31] Chris: Oh yeah. When, when Marvin, home alone. Two got electrocuted. They had the same, yes. Yeah. ,
[:[01:12:42] Chris: her
[:[01:12:47] Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He has to plug her a couple times and she's just, it almost looked like she was shortcircuiting or something. Yeah, that's, I thought anyhow. Yeah. Good stuff. Now batty, I, I, I don't guess I maybe caught this. It's the first several [01:13:00] times I saw it, but he's like, his hands are clenching or something.
[:[01:13:11] Chris: Yeah. Like I always thought he was like stabbing himself and maybe it was in my head to Terminator is cause he does. And Terminator does the operation on his arm to fix it or whatever.
[:[01:13:31] Phil: yet, I'm still alive. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That, that probably makes sense. Yeah, but he can, he can almost feel it coming on.
[:[01:13:48] Chris: thought about something just now, and I don't know if it's there or not, but the, the way she dies.
[:[01:13:54] Phil: She's upside down on her back, kicking. Oh, flip flopping around. Like a, like a turtle. Oh, shit, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I'd totally miss [01:14:00] that. That's, yeah, that's absolutely
[:[01:14:02] Phil: million different ways. He could've blown her head off, could've Yeah, yeah, yeah, but she's on her back flipping around.
[:[01:14:25] Phil: And here I wrote the turtle, Batty saves him, sits with the bird. So. [01:14:30] Deckard very much becomes, same with Pris, but Deckard very much becomes the turtle, and no one is helping, but Batty, against all odds, is the one that saves it. Decides to help. Yeah.
[:[01:14:45] Chris: Symbols of
[:[01:14:50] Chris: fighting and now they're not fighting and they're talking like I thought maybe him holding the dove, almost like a white flag piece
[:[01:15:00] Phil: Yeah. Once he dies. Yes. So, if a dove is symbolic of the spirit, so to speak, that dove flying away is Batty's spirit, consciousness, or symbolic of, that this is more than just a robot? I don't know. You know.
[:[01:15:26] Phil: Poking his head through the wall and stuff.
[:[01:15:34] Phil: He was very much the psycho at that point. He was playing with his food.
[:[01:15:47] Phil: the gun back.
[:[01:15:56] Chris: So he was close. They almost got
[:[01:16:00] James: it was, it was so strange. It
[:[01:16:07] Phil: version. Yeah. Because it's more in tune with the, the, the hunt here. Yeah. If he was.
[:[01:16:14] Phil: is when I totally checked out on that scene.
[:[01:16:20] Phil: skips.
[:[01:16:25] Phil: Yeah, the Rutger's badass. But it goes to what James may have said earlier, [01:16:30] it's been cut up so much, I think you're going to have these inconsistencies, because obviously one cut was One tone, right?
[:[01:16:43] James: Some list, I guess. He's one of the greatest villains in this movie. Baddie. Yeah. Baddie. So like Rudger Howers. Character is one of the greatest villains in cinema history. But I didn't get it in this like I, you would tell me he's on that list as a great villain.
[:[01:16:59] James: [01:17:00] maybe with the father fucker thing,
[:[01:17:04] Phil: him than I was. Yeah, because if he's a villain, typically you don't lend your sympathies to the villain, but I was on board with Rutger. It was baddie in this cut, you know, and even if he was psycho, but he killed low pan.
[:[01:17:48] Phil: Yeah, you know, so maybe there was, I'm not saying he's not sympathetic. It just he's still crazy. In one cut he is sympathetic, in another cut he may not be, so.
[:[01:18:01] Phil: I, I, yeah, me too, yeah, exactly. It's true, y'all said
[:[01:18:03] James: Yeah, so. Yes. And in other cuts, like when he was saying fucker and killing everybody and killed 23 people, if that was more consistent, he would have been a different villain completely. And,
[:[01:18:22] Phil: We created this guy and, and, and what guy wouldn't be pissed off. If you gave him everything he [01:18:30] has, but then, oh, we're, you know, you're just a device and we're gonna let you live for a year. All right, but
[:[01:18:39] Chris: Yeah. You didn't kill the doctor because you're mad. No. Like this guy's still killing people, right? He's still. No, you're absolutely right. Squished his head in
[:[01:18:49] Chris: poor Sebastian as you're saying. Yeah, this guy's not a good guy, man. I'm not saying he's not, can't sympathize and doesn't.
[:[01:19:15] Phil: Now you got cancer. Right. Okay. Now you're on the war path. Oh, not, not at Elysium. Elysium. Yeah. Which a terrible talk about, whoa. I like that. That was all right. Yeah. I like it. Very preachy. I've seen it once. Very [01:19:30] preachy. I've seen that all. I don't mind moral. We'll add it to the list so we can talk about it down the road.
[:[01:19:43] Chris: But
[:[01:19:45] Chris: They're tools to them, right? Yes. Now granted there's argument, you know, are they more right?
[:[01:19:54] Phil: more. Well, yeah. They're on the verge. I mean, look at Rachel. She's clearly more. [01:20:00] Yeah. And experiment. But then he says she's an experiment. Nothing more. Right. Earlier. So even, yeah, no, he's a douchebag.
[:[01:20:12] Chris: right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I have sympathize towards him, but he's still it's like
[:[01:20:20] Phil: down exactly There you go.
[:[01:20:27] Chris: I don't bad that Tyrell dies. Like he's a douche bag and Yeah, he [01:20:30] should be. Yeah. But, but Stein, it worked out by your own monster.
[:[01:20:43] James: Yeah. If you, if Tyrell was the first victim of Roy. That might be very sympathetic. Sure.
[:[01:21:05] James: if, you know, he's killed 23 people and then they come back to earth and they're on a murdering rampage and they're asking for more life.
[:[01:21:15] Phil: to be put down. Yes. And, and the way you could sort of justify that is because they were given four years and, and so you'd have to frame that, but it is hard to redeem somebody who, you know, has killed 23 people. I'm sorry. Yeah, exactly.
[:[01:21:48] Phil: My all is lost is a false victory. He gets all the replicants. So all four are done and, and, and Gaff says, you've done a man's job or something like this, you know?
[:[01:22:01] Phil: do. Oh, okay. All right. All right. He gets all the replicants, but he can't feel good about it.
[:[01:22:09] Chris: Way before. Granted, I do admit that it gets real, you know, I guess fuzzy and blurry and hard to nail down here. Like I have him when he sleeps with Rachel is always lost. Like he's now sleeping with the, the fourth replicant that he was just told to wipe out, you know, like he's the opposite of retiring them.
[:[01:22:31] Phil: sleeps with her. So he didn't do the job. So that's a defeat. Yeah. Okay. All
[:[01:22:41] Phil: absolutely. I'm sorry. Yeah,
[:[01:22:45] Phil: Yes, I think that is the, one of the, yes, a very absolute bad guy.
[:[01:22:50] Chris: after Pris and Betty is my breaking the three granite is weak and he's just sitting there. What are you doing? Working? And then gets a call and then goes over there, right? It's not, it's not this traditional rallying [01:23:00] back type of thing, right?
[:[01:23:03] Phil: Because gets all the replicants, but can't feel good about it. Dark Knight of the Soul. Now this This, this is to me is very weak. He gets in there and he's calling for Rachel, can't find her. She's not responding. He pulls the covers off and she's laying there. And for about a half a second, I thought she was dead that she had died and I thought maybe he did too.
[:[01:23:26] Phil: that's what I'm
[:[01:23:30] Phil: Okay. That's what I'm calling the dark night, the soul thinks Rachel is dead. You know, his darkest moment, but you the scene earlier
[:[01:23:39] Chris: Yeah. And he says, no, I wouldn't. But someone else would. Okay. Always. I guess because gaff, I think is a blade runner too, even though it doesn't ever do ship and make little origami dudes in this.
[:[01:23:56] Phil: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Now that [01:24:00] if you know the time, we, we have very few minutes left in this movie by breaking the three. Do you trust me? Yes, I trust you. The unicorn origami and his vision, Rachel's unicorn. And you're not going to like this. The third act is the rest of their lives storming the castle of their mortality.
[:[01:24:29] Chris: [01:24:30] no, it would have been much and again the the rewriting thing but just think about like it would have been a lot better if Takes out, you know, Preston, Roy, and all that happens the way it does.
[:[01:24:55] Chris: But
[:[01:25:06] James: But so you're saying that the first act ends 13 minutes 13 minutes. So it's all second. Yep
[:[01:25:15] Chris: you know, two hours obviously not that fun.
[:[01:25:22] Phil: mean Yeah. It's a lot of the bulk of it is act two. Yeah. Because Act three I is, because when it ended, I'm like, wait a minute. Right. Because [01:25:30] it went dark. Yeah. To be continued
[:[01:25:33] James: And so that to me,
[:[01:25:48] Phil: And that works for me. But as far as structurally wise, I didn't see a third act. I was
[:[01:26:04] Phil: Yeah, you apartment or Terrell Corporation. They're the
[:[01:26:12] Chris: Earlier you said you thought you had the Hightower surprise nailed down. That was
[:[01:26:17] Chris: saved. Yeah, by Roy. Yeah, Roy. Yeah, which is a good one.
[:[01:26:20] James: is. Because they're literally on the roof. You can't get much higher than that.
[:[01:26:28] Phil: Yeah. Because, [01:26:30] is that Deckard's apartment? No, it's J. F. Sebastian's apartment. Sebastian's apartment. Okay, okay. So, I guess Deckard is storming a castle going to the Yeah, he's been chased
[:[01:26:46] Phil: Yeah, because if he's storming the castle to get Pris Well, he's, he's heard that he's heard that they found the bodies there, right? Yeah. Yeah. Or Tarell's
[:[01:27:03] Phil: Yes, because, because Batty will say, you know, now you know what it feels like to live in fear or whatever.
[:[01:27:11] Phil: surprise. And that's about as good a choice as any because I think that whole section is weak as far as, you know, but that's why, and so when I thought, well, maybe the third act is the rest of the lives, I could live with that.
[:[01:27:30] James: I think I put it break into three was the chess game, like around there when they go to see Tyrell. Yeah. But again, I
[:[01:27:54] Phil: That's the only thing that made sense to me. Yeah. Now, we didn't talk about genre but it's a, if [01:28:00] it's a why, is it a why done it? I mean are we Yeah, I think it's a why
[:[01:28:04] Phil: Snyder goes. Yes, because it's a, you know, investigative crime, so you almost have to say it's a why done it.
[:[01:28:13] James: any other options? It's definitely not. It might be dude
[:[01:28:27] Phil: Problems. We all got problems. My dog came home with a [01:28:30] finger in his mouth. That's a problem. I think that's from Thank
[:[01:28:35] Phil: you, Bobby. I really regret talking to you right now. I love that. Motherfucker. Anyway yeah, so we'll call it a wide done it because it's a crime. Yeah. I guess.
[:[01:28:48] James: Well, I guess that's what you get when a movie's been hacked
[:[01:28:56] Chris: Yeah, and I've never read it. I guess it's something on the list, but like, it'd [01:29:00] be interesting to read the, the, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? And if I'm not mistaken, I believe the Deckard character is married in the book.
[:[01:29:12] Phil: It puts a different spin on it, so. When the 2049, what's his name Has a girlfriend, right? But she's basically a projection of Yeah.
[:[01:29:24] Phil: that one. That one was pretty good. That's a movie I could watch again.
[:[01:29:35] Chris: same. I mean, I like it but yeah. And obviously the beats are a mess, but yeah. No, I like it, and yeah, I'll probably watch it, same, every couple of years. Yeah, every couple of years.
[:[01:29:44] Phil: Nah. Nah. Nah. Alright, well that, that
[:[01:29:51] Phil: sorry.
[:[01:29:52] Phil: good. I like that. Well, yeah, I mean, cause I was hard pressed to figure out a theme. Cause I can't wait. I'm
[:[01:29:59] Phil: [01:30:00] Yeah, what do you mean I'm not helping? Yeah, because it's, it's natural to help. But we're not helping the replicants. Why? You know clearly they, because they didn't even want them to have, they knew they could develop sentience and, and emotions and put something in their To to curtail that before your lifespan for that very reason.
[:[01:30:22] Chris: saving Rachel would work so much better because now he's Fucking helping now. He's right. That's his breaking. He's he's seen the error of his ways realizes i'm part of
[:[01:30:45] Phil: We all have a coming kid. Oh my God. Money is, is aware of his past and has no illusions about that, but knows that he's a different man now and for whatever it's worth, he's going to, you know, try to be that man. Right. That would have been cool to see in Deckard. [01:31:00] Like you said. Right.
[:[01:31:09] Chris: Yeah. Cause then, cause there's, there's to me, like, there was no question of after he gets revenge for that. Right. Yeah. It goes right back to being the pig farmer guy. Like he doesn't go back to this. It's just a
[:[01:31:20] Chris: He switched it on and switched it right back off. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, but
[:[01:31:25] Phil: Yeah, yeah. When he is killing that, 'cause it's almost uncomfortable for me to watch him killing that, you know, gut [01:31:30] shooting that. Yeah. And he is, doesn't die right away and he is crying. Get some water. Give him some water. Damn it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. . Yeah. That, that's very well done. Right. To where you're uncomfortable.
[:[01:31:50] James: that was pretty
[:[01:31:54] Phil: We better. Yeah. All right. Here we go. Okay.
[:[01:32:19] Phil: And I do recommend it for the occasional viewing. I think it is a very interesting and stylistic film that you should see. You know, I [01:32:30] hate to be snobbish about it, but I think it's an important enough movie that you should see it. So definitely Strong Consider, Weak Recommend, I would say. You know, excellent.
[:[01:32:54] Chris: the movie. It's almost like action film music. I mean, I like it, but I'm like, where was this music in the [01:33:00] rest of the movie?
[:[01:33:00] Phil: like the music. For a couple of reasons, because I like the music, but it also told me it was the end of the movie. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She was happy. Vangelis. He was big in the 80s. I'm sorry, but. You know, I don't, I don't like, I don't
[:[01:33:14] Phil: being stark. Well, sci fi, but this, this is hard, hard sci fi. Okay. Back to the Future is.
[:[01:33:45] Phil: But that's as hard as I find it. Yeah. All right, so pass. Pass. I think we saw that coming, yeah.
[:[01:34:07] James: That plays Sean Young, Sean Young. Oh man. She's an attractive
[:[01:34:14] James: there's tricks with horns.
[:[01:34:25] Phil: That's, that's also Sean Young. Oh, we need to talk about, we'll talk about this stuff later. But
[:[01:34:30] James: Yeah, no, Sean Young, very attractive lady. Right. This is an awesome movie. It's Ridley Scott being Ridley Scott. Sure. You're in for what you're in for. Right. There was other we'll get to it when we get back around, but there's another story that bleeds into our Terminator 2 podcast. Okay. Nice. So, but yeah, consider if you're a giant movie fan, recommend that you got to see Blade Runner, but just as a normal fan, no.
[:[01:35:00] Chris: guess in the same boat as, as you do, like it's a consider if you're just, you know, a normal movie fan, but if you're, you know, an avid film buff or whatever, and you haven't seen it, then, yeah, I recommend it. It's, yeah, you gotta check it out for, for
[:[01:35:13] Phil: All right. Cool. Now, very briefly, let's, let's talk about this Deckard is a replicant thing, because I The critics, some reviewers were saying, yeah, it's in this movie. It's obvious. I, this version, what, what are, what are the evidences? Do you know of why they think [01:35:30] the fight
[:[01:35:35] James: They're throwing him through walls and all he's doing is bleeding.
[:[01:35:47] James: he's got his own memories, he's got his own Yeah,
[:[01:35:54] Chris: the unicorn doesn't represent The unicorn, or origami unicorn, doesn't represent Rachel.
[:[01:36:14] Chris: Yeah. Right?
[:[01:36:17] James: Okay. And they're saying also the indifference towards replicants.
[:[01:36:26] Phil: Yes, but at some, and I guess at some point he developed feelings because he quit [01:36:30] and had the
[:[01:36:32] Chris: I don't prescribe to him being a replicant. Okay. To me it works better if he's a human. I can see the argument. I can see the argument, but I don't like it. I, I, I think it works better if he's a human. Now, in
[:[01:36:47] Chris: Yeah. So, yeah. So does that mean he was like her and didn't have a, a, you know, a four year? Yeah, like a, I, I'd
[:[01:36:58] Chris: you Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Do you even [01:37:00] age? Yeah. I guess not. Yeah, I mean, not, so I think the sequel reads like, he is a human,
[:[01:37:04] Phil: 'cause he age, right? Because his dog is not, his dog is a projection or something. Right. In that. But
[:[01:37:16] Phil: I don't think that's right. Yeah, I think it's read into instead of explicit. And so therefore, I'm not convinced.
[:[01:37:22] Chris: I feel like that's some shit that came up later, right? Yeah, yeah. Like all the different versions and
[:[01:37:28] James: The Terminator [01:37:30] 2 thing we Oh, no, I'm sorry. I wouldn't turn it to you. It was aliens, aliens. When Jim Cameron had such an issue with Ridley Scott's crew off the original alien.
[:[01:37:57] James: Yeah, that's funny. Ridley Scott with fucking
[:[01:38:00] Chris: Sure. I didn't realize they were each other's crews. I had heard both of the stories. I think there's a documentary called, I think it's called Dangerous Days, that's like the, about the making of this, of this movie. Okay, alright. Wow. Yeah.
[:[01:38:16] James: we went pretty good
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