Many people find that no matter how good of a diet plan they have or how much they want to change their eating habits, they still end up yo-yo dieting and beating themselves up over it. Today’s guest, Tricia Nelson, is an Emotional Eating Expert and today she’ll share with us the differences between emotional eating and food addiction, personality tendencies of emotional overeaters, and how to untangle your emotions from your hunger.

Tricia Nelson lost fifty pounds by identifying and healing the underlying causes of her emotional eating and has spent over thirty years researching the hidden causes of the addictive personality. 

Tricia is an Emotional Eating Expert and TEDx speaker, and author of the #1 bestselling book, Heal Your Hunger, 7 Simple Steps to End Emotional Eating.  Now Tricia is the host of the popular podcast, The Heal Your Hunger Show, is a highly regarded speaker, and has also been featured on NBC, CBS, KTLA, FOX and The List.

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Music credit: Funk’d Up by Reaktor Productions

A Podcast Launch Bestie production

Hey there.

Welcome back to the Nutrition Edit podcast.

I'm your host, Jeannie Oliver, and today we're gonna be talking about

a subject that is close to home for me, which is emotional eating.

My guest today is Trisha Nelson.

She lost 50 pounds by identifying and healing the underlying causes

of her emotional eating, and she's spent over 30 years researching the

hidden causes of the addictive person.

Tricia is an emotional eating expert and TEDx speaker, and

she's the author of the number one bestselling book, Heal Your Hunger.

Seven Simple Steps To End Emotional Eating.

Now, Tricia is the host of the popular podcast, The Heal Your Hunger Show,

and she's a highly regarded speaker who has also been featured on nbc,

cbs, K tla, Fox, and the List.

Today we're gonna talk about the difference between emotional eating and

food addiction, how to differentiate between physical and emotional hunger.

How to deal with obsessive food, thoughts, manage stress before

it drives you to the kitchen.

And she's gonna give you a few simple steps that you can take

to overcome emotional eating.

So I hope you enjoy the show and find it inspiring and let's dive in.

Okay, here we go.

Welcome back to the Nutrition Edit.

Everybody I'm really excited about my guest today with me is Trisha Nelson,

the founder of Heal Your Hunger.

And Trisha, thanks for joining me today.

I'm stoked

to have you here.

Oh, so good to be here.

Thank you.

So I know, I can't remember how I came across you in the

past, but I actually did Your Hill, your hunger training for coaches, and it was

really, really impactful and powerful.

And so I wanted to have you on today just to tell us a little more about

this big subject of emotional eating.

And why don't we just kick off by you telling us, you know, a

little about your history and your.

Yeah, it totally was personal.

It came from my personal experience, which is good because then I know a lot about it

So, um, right.

So yeah, I mean back, uh, as far back as I can remember, I was an

emotional eater, and of course I did not know I was an emotional eater.

I just thought, Food, you know?

And so I like to eat.

I like to cook.

I love to go out to restaurants, you know, serve food to other people.

It was all about food, and that would've been probably fine, except

that I gained weight really easily.

And by age 21 I was.

50 pounds overweight, which was really a miserable experience, of course.

And I, I had like this roll on my tummy that I would scrunch up in my hands.

Ima and imagine cutting off like you cut fat off the side of a steak.

And I thought about getting some crazy disease where I'd automatically

lose weight without having to diet

So, so I was having all these crazy thoughts and, and really

it came down to, I couldn't.

Diet and stay thin.

Like I would, I was a yo-yo so I'd lose weight.

Gain weight.

Mm-hmm.

, I was all over the map and it was really uncomfortable for me.

I had like five different sizes of clothes in my closet, cuz

I never knew what size I'd be.

You know, I'd be like up 40, down 30, up 20.

I was all over and it was just very embarrassing for me.

You know, people would see me at different sizes, and so I just had a

lot of shame around my eating behaviors.

And I did a TEDx talk and, um, I, I kind of reenacted my garbage eating

and, and what that's about is, you know, I would binge on food and then

I'd eat so much of it that I'd be like, I'm never eating this again.

You know, And then I'd throw it out.

and later I'd be like, Uh, there's still cookies in that package I threw

out and I'd go back and get them.

And so I, you know, I had a lot of shame about that kind of behavior, you know?

And of course I thought I was the only one who ever did this kind

of thing, which is so not true.

you know?

No, definitely not.

Yeah.

So it was just very hard for me.

Like relief came for me when I stopped dieting and I got help

to face the emotional eating.

So when I finally realized, Wow, I am an emotional eater, you know,

no diet is gonna save me from this emotional bond I have with food

that keeps me compelled to eat.

So that's when things started to change for me is when I started to

address my relationship with food.

And thankfully, I did.

You know, develop this system based on my own changes.

I developed this system to help people heal from emotional eating and then

heal Your hunger came into being, you know, my company and my podcast and,

and I just, you know, I find that it's just, to me, it's the crux of the

problem that nobody's talking about.

basically.

Yeah.

I couldn't agree more.

And I had a similar experience.

I was 50 pounds overweight at one point and a big time binge

eater and Purger for years.

Mm.

And I had very similar behaviors.

So, you know, that was part of my journey as well.

And one of the reasons that I also got into this, this work, You know, health

coaching and nutrition coaching is, I just feel like that's part of the, the beauty

that can come out of our struggles, right?

Is that we can use it to help others.

So yes, and you've had such a massive impact in, in your work and, I love it

and I think it's, it's so crucial and it opens up that conversation like, we need

to be talking about this and addressing it because it's not, Part of the mainstream

narrative with diet culture, Right?

No.

And within the wellness industry, it's not addressed a

lot.

Yeah.

And I love your, I love your work and I love that you are, you know,

really homing in on this for people.

It's so, so important.

Oh,

thank you.

And, um, well, I'm just so excited to have this discussion today.

And when it comes to emotional eating, how does someone tell the difference between.

I'm an emotional eater or I'm a food addict, or I just like to eat a lot.

Can you differentiate those for

us?

Totally.

And it's a really important distinction.

I mean, I did think, I just like to eat a lot, you know, until I started

to observe my behaviors around food.

And they definitely were not normal, you know?

And they weren't the same as my friends.

I mean, I used to go out to lunch with friends and they would like

order a sandwich and it would come with fries and they'd eat their

sandwich and pick up their fries.

And I would eat my fries and pick up my sandwich.

You know, I'm like the fries, they're friends with the best part, you know,

And I'd be like, how could people just sit there and leave fries on their Plate.

I was like, How, you know, I can't do that.

So I sort of started to realize that I'm different around

food than other people are.

And so that's really when I started to realize, wow, my

relationship is emotional.

You know?

So my feeling, just to answer your question, you know, my feeling is that

we're all emotional eaters to some degree.

we have an emotional connection with food because hey, we gotta

subsist as a species, we better have an emotional connection with food.

So I think we're all kind of baseline emotional eaters.

however, you know, not everybody does what I did with food.

And so, I think it.

Spectrum.

Okay.

And we're all in different places on the spectrum of emotional eating.

And on that low end is emotional eating.

And on the high end is, uh, basically food addiction.

Where it's taken on a life of its own and it really mirrors an addiction

like alcoholism or drug addiction and, Unfortunately we don't see it,

that our culture doesn't see that.

It's like, Oh, hahaha, you know, I'm gonna eat a box of donuts.

Yes.

But you know, for the, the person who really is addicted

to food, it's not a haha matter.

It's really painful and shameful.

, you know, so on that spectrum, the way to qualify kind of where

somebody is on that spectrum.

And I actually have a quiz that does that for people, um, on my website.

But it's basically two things primarily.

One is the level of control someone has.

Um, which means mm-hmm.

can they scale back?

Like, like if they go on a cruise, gain five pounds, come back, feel

kind of like, Ugh, my pants don't fit.

I have muffin top.

You know, they, they jog extra for a couple weeks, cut out sweets and

boom, they lost those five pounds.

That's someone with a lot of control.

So the be, they would be on the lower end of the spectrum.

Whereas somebody who is more addicted on the higher end of the spectrum, they

would have very little control once they started to overeat, like let's say, you

know, they were doing good on a new food regimen and then at some point they're

like, I really just wanna eat cake.

And so they eat cake and then all of a sudden they're like, Yeah, but.

You know, what's cake without ice cream?

And like, yeah, but I really need something salting with my

sweet, so let me have some chips.

And you know, they fall down the rabbit hole and then it's, they're in the

cycle and they can't get back to that place where they were doing so good.

that's somebody who has more of an addictive.

habit around food.

So they don't have much control.

They can't just scale back or course correct.

So easily as a person who went on the cruise.

The other way to determine where somebody ends up on the

spectrum is with the consequences.

So again, five pounds on a cruise that you take off really fast.

That's, that's not a big consequence, right?

But somebody who falls down the rabbit hole and can't get back into control.

That's somebody who could easily gain 10 pounds, you know, in a few weeks

and feel awful, completely mortified.

And then they do that over and over and before, you know, 50 pounds has come on.

And I will say the longer somebody does that, you know, and you

and I both know people Yeah.

Who have been on that rollercoaster ride for decades.

That, you know, the more decades you do that, the more consequences you have.

Your joints are aching, you have arthritis, you have autoimmune issues.

You're pre-diabetic or diabetic, you know, you've got heart disease.

Yeah, it, I mean, those consequences mount, you know, with the years that

we do this damage to our bodies.

So again, you know, an addiction is something.

And again, people are like, How can you be addicted?

Addicted food?

You have to eat.

Well, that's true.

That's why it's the hardest of all the addictions to overcome.

It's a harder Yeah.

You can't just

available and socially acceptable.

Exactly.

Everybody's pushing and push on you.

Yeah, exactly.

So, you know, that's really, uh, so important.

You know, people kind of minimize it or, or feel bad that they are addicted

and like, Oh, what's wrong with me?

I shouldn't, This is so stupid.

Mm-hmm.

, it's just, you know, cookies or whatever, but.

, you know, it really is an addiction and typically we've been doing it longer

than other, like a drug addict or alcoholic has been doing their drug.

You know, I mean, typically it does start at a pretty young age, which

means it's more ingrained for us, which means it's harder to overcome, it's

harder to dislodge from our lives.

So, um, plus when we do it in spite.

Doctor's orders.

I mean, it's so frustrating when the doctor says, Hey, you've gotta cut down.

You've got high cholesterol.

You need to Right.

You know, stop eating bacon and sugar.

You know, and we don't, that's an addictive habit if you do it in spite of.

Dangerous consequences, there's something wrong there.

We gotta take a look at that.

And, and so when our relationship with food is more addictive,

it's not gonna be something we're gonna wish away on our own.

Right.

Yeah.

And I remember being in that head space of thinking it.

Will I ever be able to be free from obsessing about food

and thinking about food 24 7?

I mean, there was definitely a point in my life where I just thought,

am I gonna live my life like this?

Is this how it is?

Yeah.

And just feeling so in bondage to that and thinking this is insane.

Like in a logical level.

Like what the hell is happening here?

You know?

Yeah.

For me, the reality was that I was anesthetizing with food and there was pain

and trauma that was unaddressed, right?

Yeah.

And that's how it was manifesting.

And I was always the good girl.

I never was a drinker and I didn't do drugs and I didn't smoke or

whatever, but man, I could take down a package of Oreos in one sitting.

Right?

. Tricia Nelson: Yeah.

But having come out the other end of that,

thankfully, and gratefully you.

We can tell you, Trisha and I, everybody listening that this

there is freedom from this.

A hundred percent.

And yeah, you know, that's why I have you here today is to talk about this.

And I think so many of the clients that I work with, they've tried so many different

diets and of course, you know, as.

As we both know what 95, 90 8% of, of diets fail.

Um, so talk a little bit about that and where that intersects with, with

emotional eating, because I think that that's something that is just

not addressed on the diet front.

You can have the best nutrition plan in the world, but you know, Yeah.

If you're coming from a place of food addiction, then.

Totally.

And the thing is, it's even more frustrating when you know

better and you can't do better.

You know, So people typically, in order to try to get to the bottom

of it, they're researching online, they're buying courses, they're reading

books, you know, so they're, they've, their head is full of knowledge.

So it's the, it's not for lack of information.

I mean, they're, you know, Right.

They're not stupid.

Right.

They know that salads are probably a better.

Than hot dogs and burgers.

But you know, it's like we choose unhealthy foods anyway, and that's

what makes it so crazy and frustrating.

And I believe that 98% of all diets fail because of emotional eating,

because it's not as simple as just cutting certain foods out of your diet.

I mean, we've all done that, but then we go back to those.

You know, so it's like, okay, what is that about?

Why would we do that in spite of doctor's orders, you know, or

admonishing, and so my experience, it is that emotional connection to food.

I mean, if you think about it, a diet just takes away your main coping.

Tool.

You know, I mean, I used food to cope with everything.

Right?

With stress, Yeah, with disappointment, with boredom, worry,

you know, rejection, everything.

Ti being tired.

I mean, I used food all the time to get through life, and so if you tell me,

okay, let's take away all those foods, the illegally chewy ones that you love to

turn to, you know when life is hard, let's take all those away and you'll be happy.

you know, and that's . It doesn't pan out.

I mean, yeah, you might feel good, you know, your body's detoxing and

then all of a sudden you've lost the bloat and the pants are looser.

That feels great.

You know, we all have new diet syndrome where we're like, Oh, who,

like, I'm doing it and I'm going to the gym and you're kind of in there.

Hi.

Like, you know, we're do getting the job done.

But it pales, you know, for me it was about at week, at week two, after a couple

weeks I would start to not care, you know, that I was on this new plan and I, it

started to get really hard and then I'd be like, How much longer can I keep this up?

So then it just becomes drudgery.

And if it is drudgery mm-hmm.

, you can't keep it up for very long.

And the reason why it's drudgery is because, you know, food was

how we got by in life and all of a sudden we don't have that.

So everything that we were stuffing with food is coming back to the surface.

But we don't have any coping tools.

We don't know what to do about it.

So basically, uh, we're like, Yo, life is hard.

You know, Give me my sugar, you know, I gotta go back to it because I just,

you know, all, all you did is take everything away from me, but give me

no solution for dealing with stress and disappointment and board bored and worry.

So to me it's really the emotions that we.

Found new ways to cope with that to me that's why the diets fail.

It's like people have no, I, of course we all wanna be thin, but can we handle the

amount of emotions we have to process in order to be in a thin body if we don't

have our protection of food and fat, you know, we've gotta have new tools.

Mm-hmm.

and, and diets don't give you new.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I, I, um, often tell clients, especially when they've dealt with even previous

addictions, you know, you see people at AA meetings and they're all

outside drinking coffee and smoking.

Smoking, yeah.

, Jeannie Oliver: it's.

Yes, probably a much less harmful addiction for them

and it's replacing something.

But if we, we can't just take one thing away and then put nothing in its place.

Like your brain wants that dopamine hit like you, those unpleasant

emotions, like you said, if we don't have these other coping tools

in place, if we don't have support around that, there's just this sort of

gaping hole of this coping mechanism.

Like you said that, okay, well now what?

Like all of a sudden all these unpleasant motions are, are flooding.

Head in your body, right?

and so it's overwhelming.

It can be really overwhelming to go through that.

And having experienced that first hand, I just remember feeling

like I was falling off a cliff.

Hmm.

And that there was no safety net, you know, It was terrifying.

It was like, oh my God.

Cuz I had nothing else in place.

And you know, I was lucky enough to go through a pretty intensive.

Therapy program for people with eating disorders, but not

everybody has access to that.

so when people are trying to reco, I mean, I think some people,

obviously they're gonna recognize this in themselves quite easily.

They're gonna hear the sort of things that you and I are talking about

and be like, Yep, sounds familiar.

but I think there are other aspects to emotional eating that we're not

always aware of that can exacerbate the problem or even drive us to.

Eat emotionally more, just circumstantial things.

And I think too, you know, like you taught in our course that there are certain

personality traits or, yeah, I shouldn't say personality, but, um, because you

know, that it insinuates that that's more who we are as a permanent thing.

But I would say tendencies, right?

Um, behavioral tendencies that we have that are more common.

Amongst emotional eaters that can contribute to that.

So tell us a little bit about that and, how there's more to this emotional

eating than just being like, Oh, I'm, I'm sad or happy, so I'm gonna

dive here first into a bag of potato

jelly.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

It really is, traits of the emotional eater that go

unnoticed, in the conversation.

And yet in my experience, they really drive.

The compulsion to eat, you know, and I mean, it's, people are always trying

to find a pill or, tapping or something that'll take away their cravings.

But for me, the cravings are primarily emotional and, and we create them.

By our behaviors, cuz it feels like when you have a craving for

chocolate, you're like, you feel like you got struck with it.

Like you're just like, do, do, do, do.

And then all of a sudden I've gotta have chocolate, you know?

And so, . people think it just happens to them, but if it does, that's a

very powerless feeling and doesn't leave you with much solution except

waiting for the next craving to strike.

Whereas, you know, looking at it from a new perspective and realizing a

lot of these cravings we do create by how we show up in the world.

Then we have some choice, you know, we have some choice.

We can make different decisions.

Yeah.

So to me it's great news.

And so I have something in my book, and as you learned in my program too, it's

called The Anatomy of the Emotional Eater.

And this is, 24 personality traits, you know, or tendencies

as you you call 'em, which I like.

They're things that, we fall into, out of habits, that have nothing to do

with food and yet has everything to do.

How we are with food, at the cravings that, seem to strike us.

And so, as an example of this, I'm gonna bring up the number one

trait which I see in emotional eaters, and that's, people pleasing.

So emotional eaters, are total people pleasers, like.

We're always trying to please, always trying to get the

gold star, the Atta girl.

You know, we just live for that validation.

It feels so good and it's, you know, it's a normal thing to wanna be validated.

That's, that's a human trait, but we kind of take it too far, you know, so, So we.

Kill ourselves practically for this validation.

We take on extra work.

You know, we burn the candle at both ends.

We say yes anytime we're asked, without discerning if we can really handle it.

. Um, and, and we're always trying to please, we don't want anybody to be upset

with us or to not like us, and this sets us up in that cycle of overdoing, you

know, overdoing, getting burned out, you know, exhausting our adrenals and.

And we're doing it.

And, and the reason why this has something to do with food, cause people

might be wondering is that when we are exhausted all the time, what do we do?

We, we reach for quick energy, you know, chocolate and coffee, right?

So, so that sets us up to eat.

But also, when we try to please people, they're rarely as

pleased as we want them to be.

You know, So the kudos , right?

The kudos we're looking for don't always come and then we.

, like, Hello, hello.

I, I knocked myself out.

Where, where's my parade?

You know?

And so when it doesn't come, we're also resentful like at

how underappreciated we are.

And that feels kind of the, I deserve it.

Binge like, screw them, they're not gonna acknowledge me.

Me.

Mm-hmm.

, I'll, I'll reward myself with my favorite Belgian chocolate.

You know?

I think two, I think often people will, if they don't

get the validation they seek, they think, Well, I'm just not good enough.

I've gotta work

harder.

Right.

They internalize it.

Yep.

So true.

Mm-hmm.

. So it's, yeah.

And then this cycle just is exacerbated.

So, So that's a problem, so people give me the next diet, Let me go on a diet.

. But if they don't do anything about their overdoing tendencies, you

know, their, their people pleasing tendencies, their resentment, you know,

which comes from their own choices.

You know, if people don't.

Address that.

That's why they're going back to the food.

It's like they've got way too much stress, way too many

emotions that aren't addressed.

And then before you know what they're using food to cover that stuff up

instead of addressing it, instead of changing their ways, instead of putting

boundaries on their time, saying no to the invitation once in a while.

Yeah.

You know, these are real life things.

We must change if we ever expect to have a different experience with food, I call.

acting your way into Right.

thinking instead of thinking your way into Right.

Action.

Yeah.

You know, and that's really to me, yeah.

That's the, that's what has to happen.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think, you know, anytime that we take action, even when it's small,

especially when it's small, because I think that's most doable for us to start

with small steps, that's when we can start to feel more empowered and more in control

of whatever's happening in our lives.

And that can have a positive snowball effect, right?

Like it can kinda build momentum for us as we start to take steps and learn

like, okay, I'm not gonna die because I told somebody I'm not gonna, you

know, bake for the kids' classes.

Exactly.

Whatever.

It's

right.

Yeah, I mean, but I remember just God forbid, I would inconvenience someone

or not over accommodate somebody because that might mean rejection

or that might mean scolding of some.

Some kind.

Right.

at one point in my life that just felt unbearable.

. Tricia Nelson: Yeah.

Yeah.

It's true.

It's such a crazy kind of knee jerk reaction.

Like, Please, please don't be mad at me.

Please don't be mad at you.

I'll do anything, anything to avoid disapproval, You know?

But that's part of the journey is to learn that yeah, we can

actually live, our own, cells.

We can make our choices that serve.

You know, and our health, our highest good, and let other people

have their feelings, you know?

And yeah, the truth is if we do take time for ourselves, which I think as women,

we're kind of conditioned to believe is selfish, we have to put ourselves.

At first in terms of self care, You know, it's like putting the

oxygen mask on in the plane.

Like how can you help?

People around you put on their mask if you can't breathe.

So it's really not selfish.

All it does is enable us to be more present for other people and

be present in a way that's nice.

you know, versus bitchy and snappy and disgruntled, right?

So everybody wins when we do take care of ourselves.

I

totally agree, and I think one thing that's awfully scary for people,

and maybe you can speak to this a little bit, is often there's social circles.

You know, if your social circle revolves around unhealthy food choices,

alcohol, whatever, partying, whatever it might be, That can feel really

threatening to change that because it sort of threatens the whole structure

of your social support system.

So I've seen people when they do start to change their lifestyles and

make choices that serve them well.

You know, people either get on board.

The people in their life either get on board with that, they're inspired, they're

supportive, they might start to take steps themselves, or it sort of shines

a light on the fact that maybe others in your life need to make those changes.

But they're not there yet.

They're not ready for it.

And so they don't wanna face that quite yet.

And so they will actually distance themselves, and I think that

could be really hurtful sometimes.

What's your experience with, coaching people through that sort of a.

Situation or transition or fear about that.

Yeah.

It is hard.

People will distance themselves or even try to sabotage, you know?

Mm-hmm.

, and it's just, it's not conscious.

I mean, nobody consciously tries to sabotage us, but, you know, the

spouse that brings home baked goods after you've announced that you're

choosing a healthier path, , you know, it's like, what's that about?

You know?

And it's, it is a threat.

Yeah.

And people, you know, if they're not there yet, if they don't feel like they

are ready to make those changes and they see you making those changes, they can

either come with you or they can like, try to, you know, dampen your spirit so

that you come back to where they are.

You know, And it is a, it's a dynamic that does happen.

and that's why.

. You know, being in community with other people who are making changes is so

important because then you have your people, you know, you have support,

you have people cheering you on.

Yeah.

Because it's not, you know, I mean, being an emotional eater is kind of a weird

thing, even though gazillions of people are emotional eaters, but not everybody's

self professed, so it can seem like a weird thing and, and it just helps to be

around people who understand how you are.

Food.

I mean, I can't even believe how much response I've gotten from my

TEDx talk, which is specifically about emotional eating, because

everybody's living with a secret.

Like, everybody's like, Oh my God, I'm so bad.

I can't believe I did that, blah, blah, blah, But not realizing it's.

So common, you know?

So when we are in community with others, when people hear you and me talking

about this, like in a matter of fact way, you know, it brings comfort to

people who have been living in isolation and shame, and that only exacerbates.

The problem, of course, you know, just drives us to eat more.

So that's so important to be around those who do get us because those

we're married to, or, are in family with, you know, those people, if they

don't get it, there's a disconnect.

You know, there's just, at best it's a disconnect.

At worst, there's, derision and, you know, sabotage.

So finding our people is so, so important.

And just understanding that people, this is a big deal for people.

Like and also it's a dance, like my, my experience, it is a family condition.

It's true for alcoholism and other, other addictions as well,

is everybody plays their role.

Yeah.

Everybody's got their role to play.

If you all of a sudden up and change your role, if you're no longer the helpless

one who can't stick to a diet that everybody's trying to help, if you're now

like you're on a plan, it's working for you, you've got your community cheering

you on and you're like gaining and self confidence and effectiveness in your

life, you know what happens to the role of everybody else who used to be the

ones rescuing us, like they need a new.

Right.

And so, and they may not be ready for a new role, in which case

it's like, Hey, get back there.

Like, get, get help us again.

Would you, You know, like , it's time to time fast quo.

Yeah.

You know, because if you don't change, I don't have to change.

And so there's a lot of family dynamics and again, it's not conscious.

It's, it's just happening under the surface, you know?

And, and it, it is a family condition, so it's just so important that

people get the proper support.

So they can make these changes.

And we are, I mean, we'll reiterate, this is the hardest of all addictions

to overcome because you have to eat.

Yes.

You can't stop eating.

Right.

You know, and I liken it to trying to take a tiger out of the cage, you know,

and pet the kitty three times a day and then put it back in the cage without

getting, Your backside torn off , you know, So, that is not easy, right?

So give yourself a break if you're having struggles, because that's,

you're dealing with the hardest of all addictive habits, in my opinion.

I absolutely agree a hundred percent.

And you know, you don't have people pushing heroin or cocaine on your

television and your radio and Yeah.

billboards and signage everywhere you go at the checkout line in the grocery store.

Right.

But it's so pervasive.

It's in every aspect of our lives, in our face.

and sadly, the stuff that's in our face the most is the worst, most addict.

Least nutritious stuff.

It's the pure sugar and empty calorie foods and all those things

that, yeah, they'll give you that nice little dopamine hit and they

will keep you coming back for more.

in one of my episodes, I think it's number three, two or three, I talk about, how

foods are actually chemically addictive and they're designed to be that way.

Cause that keeps.

lots and lots of money coming into these huge companies, so, Yep.

I think recognizing that to some degree too, and recognizing, you know, when

it comes to these family dynamics, social dynamics, that we are not

responsible for everyone else's emotions.

It's not our job.

To manage their emotions and to keep everybody comfortable.

Right.

We can't do that.

We, we can only do what we need to do and what serves us well and, you know, figure

out what that is and pursue that, and it's up to them to get on board or not.

But it's, it's not your responsibility to manage the

emotions of everyone around you.

That's, we have to let go of that, that desire and effort that we

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So when we're talking about cravings and I think just hunger in general.

I know for me, I've.

Finally gotten to the place where I can really differentiate between

actual physical hunger or a craving.

You know, I sometimes I say like physical hunger, that's, you're gonna

feel it in your stomach, the craving's in your head, but for some people

they feel it everywhere or nowhere.

It just depends.

So, How does one differentiate between that emotional and physical

hunger?

Yeah, it's not easy.

I mean, you know, I've been doing this work for so long, and yet sometimes

I'll be like, I'm so hungry, , and it's very clear that I, I am not starving.

You know, I have been well fed.

I am not starving, you know, so it amazes me how much emotional hunger can.

Physical hunger, um mm-hmm.

. And so, you well know that I teach something called Three

Meal Magic, which is eating three meals with nothing in between.

And I find that to be a really, really, Helpful tool because if I am

trying to convince myself I'm really hungry, I can kind of have a little

conversation like with little Trish and say, Okay, what's really going on?

Because it's, I had a good breakfast.

Like I'm not, I'm not one to skip meals, you know?

That is a only a trap.

For failure, you know, a setup for failure, I'm gonna pay for it later in a

late night binge so I don't skip meals.

And so if I've had a healthy breakfast and I'm putting four or five hours between

breakfast and lunch, you know, then, then I'm probably not actually starving.

Like my head's trying to tell me I am.

You know mm-hmm.

, in which case it's probably emotional, but if I didn't have that to refer

to, if my eating was erratic and I was doing intermittent fasting and going,

you know, umpteen hours between meals, and I wasn't on a regular schedule of

eating, I wouldn't know what's what.

You know, and that's why for the emotional eater, I'm not a big fan

of intermittent fasting, Wayne.

I like to put 12 hours between my dinner and my breakfast.

Yeah, but I don't wanna go too far and get too hungry.

Cuz then, you know, you're, you've got the alarm signals going off

like, Oh my God, I'm starving.

And, and for emotional eaters it goes way back for us.

And so it can be a red alert situation where I feel like I'm

dying even though I'm not, you know, a food saved my life as a kid.

If I had trauma as a kid and food was the only thing I had to turn

to, there's a button in there that says food will save your.

Right?

And if you keep me away from food for too long, those,

those alarms are gonna go off.

And then I'm gonna end up overeating as if my life depends

on getting more food into me.

So it's just a disabling, way of eating.

So I love the three mil magic cuz it's just, it's very predictable.

It's very consistent.

My body loves it, right?

Cause it knows I'm never gonna mess.

You know, my eating schedule, I'm always gonna get those meals in.

So it's just a beautiful way of being.

But it does, you know, what it allows me to do is feel my feelings in

between my meals, you know, which is something I'd never done before.

Um, so it's really, really important that I learned like hunger is

not a terrible thing, you know?

In order to heal my hunger, I have to feel some hunger.

But if I'm snacking all day long, I'm not gonna feel much at all,

and then I can't heal anything.

Oh, absolutely.

And I think another beautiful benefit of eating that way, and I always

encourage my clients to give themselves a four to five hour window between

meals is because if we're snacking and eating all the time, like it's really

quite hard on our digestive system.

Like your body does not need.

In a constant state of digesting and trying to absorb nutrients,

it's hard in your gut and it keeps that kind of constant signal.

It's like, your brain gets used to getting fed several times a day, like.

Going to signal like, Hey, feed me again.

Right?

Like any of you who have pets, you know, like they have

these amazing internal clocks.

They know exactly when dinner time is in our household, 6:00 PM hits and it's

like I, I know when it's six o'clock, I don't have to look at any clock.

I know because those little dogs are around my feet and

they're like, Come on, mom.

Put out, let's get going on.

Exactly.

And our brains are kinda the same way.

So I think sometimes too, that initial, transition into the three

meals a day, only your brain is gonna be asking for those snacks.

Like, but it does go away.

That's the beauty of it.

Like it does get so much easier.

And then once you're out of that habit, man, it's so liberating

and yes, it's, it can be scary to face those emotions that surface.

You know it's better than being a slave to them the rest of

your life.

Absolutely.

No question about it.

Yeah, it takes practice.

It's not easy to do, it takes practice, but it gets easier with

practice because you sort of retrain your system to know you're okay

and you're not actually starving.

Food is coming, but let's take a little look into our emotions and

learn about those in the meantime.

Yeah, yeah,

absolutely.

So, What are maybe three things or your top recommendations for people if they

wanna start taking steps towards healing their emotional eating or, food addiction?

Where can people start?

yeah.

I would say first, I mean, we touched on it earlier, I would stay, say, take

a look at your busy schedule, okay?

Mm-hmm.

, um, because most of us are too busy.

and that stress, you know, that stressful schedule is really driving us.

It's driving our emotions.

It's driving our adrenals, it's making us tired, um, and it's also

keeping us distracted and unable to even know what our emotions are.

So distracted and depleted.

So that's number one is take a look at your schedule.

What can you delegate?

What can you ditch?

You know, what can you get help with, um, support with, that's

really gonna be important.

We're so used to trying to do it all ourselves, like that has to change.

And then the next thing I would do is set up a morning routine.

You know, one where you're like at the first thing in the morning, you're putting

money in your spiritual bank account.

And I call it that because you know, if we don't do that later

in the day, we're exhausted and we're, again, chocolate and coffee.

Like that's what we're reaching for, for quick energy.

Whereas, you know, if you've put money in your spiritual bank account, you

have something to take withdrawals from.

You can take those withdrawal.

throughout the day when stress starts to, you know, mount.

Um, but if we haven't started our day, putting money in the account, we're

gonna be in the red very quickly.

so that's really important.

You know, whether it be breathing exercises, meditation, I like to meditate.

writing, journaling, reading, spiritual literature, going for a walk in

nature, whatever feeds your soul.

, you know, it's not food we're really hungry for.

We're really undernourished spiritually, we're living on internet, Instagram, Yeah.

Media, tv, it is not feeding our souls.

We've got to start nourishing ourselves at a deeper level.

So that's super important.

And then the other thing we haven't talked about, , is don't

get on the scale regularly.

You know, like stay off the scale.

Seriously.

, Jeannie Oliver: it's not even

good data.

Know, it's, it's not good data.

No, exactly.

So just, yeah.

If you give the scale, the power, the power to make you feel good, it, you also

give it the power to make you feel bad.

And it does both really well and neither.

Right.

What matters is how we're feeding ourselves and how we're, you know,

nourishing ourselves on a deeper level and, addressing the stress.

So, um, that's just really, really important.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Well, I love those steps and I'm just so glad you joined me today.

This is really great conversation.

We'll have to do it again sometime and we'll do a deep dive in

something a little more specific.

so Sure, yeah.

Let's, let's look at that down the road.

But any, any final thoughts or anything that we didn't cover today

that you wanna share with people?

I'll include Trish's information in the show notes so that you can find her and

you can take that quiz on her website.

thank you.

Anything else?

Yeah, I.

Podcast, the Hillier Hunger Show, which is awesome.

Give it a listen.

Yeah, no, it's just really, I just encourage people to start taking care of

themselves and putting themselves first.

You know, it's, it's an important message.

I think we, especially as women, we all need that message and it's time,

if we don't take care of ourselves, you know, nobody else will or can.

And so it's so, so important.

Absolutely.

I will throw one last thought in and I think that

this is for your parents out there.

I think, like you mentioned before, we women are sort of

expected to do everything.

We're supposed to be super women, amazing moms, amazing social life.

We have the perfect body, we've got the perfect career and we're, you know, all

these things and it's kind of insane.

And , we.

Conditioned to think that self care is selfish.

Like we're being selfish if we take time out for ourselves or

if we stand up for our needs.

And I would argue that especially as parents, the opposite is true because

you're modeling to your kids, whatever you're doing, that's an example.

They're going to be paying closer attention than you realize, and they're

gonna emulate that in future, right?

So you are doing a huge disservice by not modeling that self care

behavior and you know, being true to yourself and standing up for your

needs and, demonstrating what to do.

Food when, hey, this doesn't serve me well or that does serve me well,

versus this is bad, this is good.

And coming at it from a place of, not moralizing our food choices,

but just honoring our bodies.

Right.

And our

souls a hundred percent.

Absolutely.

Well, thank you again for joining me.

I love this conversation and we'll definitely do it again some.

Yeah.

Thanks for having me and thanks for the beautiful work you're doing in the world.

I'm so glad that you are showing people how to be healthy and be self caring.

It's beautiful.

Well, thank you, Trisha.

I feel the same way about you and excited to, see what you have happening next.

Thank you.