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Highlights

• What 16 years of holding about every single type of revenue driving role looks like (00:40)
• How he knew he had what it took to be a sales leader (03:31)
• Why every salesperson has to have a self care practice (06:47)
• Indicators that helped him determine whether he needed to make a career change (08:17)
• Going from customer success individual contributor to sales leader (14:12)
• Telling if an individual contributor is ready for a leadership role (19:09)
• Modern day recruitment, retention, and team success strategies for sales organizations (22:32)
• Being accommodating as a sales leader while also keeping things in line with your organization’s overall culture (28:14)

In this episode of the Transformed Sales Podcast, I sat down with Gene Plotkin, the VP of Corporate Sales at Mimeo, a company that provides the fastest, easiest, most reliable way to manage and distribute their content. Mimeo brings customers’ content to life through print and digital formats via its enterprise app suite and global print production facilities. Founded in 1999 as a startup, Mimeo has grown into a global organization, distributing content to customers in over 140 countries. 

Over the last 16 years, Gene has held about every single type of revenue driving role as both an individual contributor and a leader at companies ranging from early stage startups to global enterprises. “To succeed in your sales career, you must do what comes naturally and focus on that”, he says. He will talk to us about how he managed to deal with burnout, why he decided to make a big career change, the value of working in customer success, how he has always been able to set himself up for promotions at a fast pace, why a salesperson being a top performer doesn’t always mean they have what it takes to lead a team, and so much more. Stay tuned for that and more.

Quotes

“Customer success is very much sales. It’s just the context of how you go about that is different” - Gene Plotkin

“Just because it seems like there’s more prestige at the top does not actually mean that that’s what you would be happier doing” - Gene Plotkin

“The individual contributor does not automatically make a good leader” - Gene Plotkin

Learn More About Gene in the Links Below:

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/geneplotkin/
• Email - GPlotkin@Mimeo.com

Connect with Wesleyne Greer:

• Wesleyne’s Website - https://transformedsales.com/
• Wesleyne on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/wesleynegreer/
• Wesleyne on Facebook - https://web.facebook.com/wesleynegreer
• Wesleyne on Twitter - https://twitter.com/wesleynegreer
• Email Her at wesleyne@transformedsales.com

Hello, and welcome to the transformed sales

podcast where we talk all about the science of selling. Today. I

am so excited to have Jean Plotkin with us. How are you

doing?

I'm doing excellent. Very excited to be

here.

Thank you so much for joining us. Let me tell

you guys a little bit about Jean. Over the last 16 years,

he's held about every single type of revenue driving role as

both an individual contributor and a leader at companies

ranging from early stage startups to global enterprises.

He is currently the VP of Corporate sales at Mimeo. So G

16 years, almost two decades. Tell us how did you get started?

And how did you end up where you are today?

Absolutely. So I never actually thought about

kind of growing up never thought of sales as being kind of a

profession. But I knew very early on that I had a talent for

managing and leading people. And when I graduated college, I

didn't really have a good direction, sort of went to

business school, because that was really into into sports and

playing hockey, and really didn't give my career too much

thought other than, you know, I'm gonna go to business school

get going to do something. So I graduated with a degree in

marketing, but really realized very quickly, it wasn't for me,

and I kind of had this idea of starting a business one day, and

I figured that I was going to need to learn how to sell right

and get a new customer. So I was good at interviewing, I went

around, had many different interviews, ended up getting a

job that was completely unqualified for the guy thought

I was high energy, but there was no formal training of any kind.

It was, here's an office, here's a laptop, you know, this was

2006, everybody else has 17 plus years of experience. And I've

never sold a thing. So that's how I started that that for a

little while. And then I really got interested in the idea of

influence and communication, right. And guys like Tony

Robbins, and there's a few others that I listened to that.

And I was really just fascinated by their command of language. So

I started learning those kinds of things, neuro linguistic

programming and psychology, just influence in general, I got

certified as a hypnotist, fascinated with the field and

then decided I was going to take that and kind of bring it into

salesmen one way or another and going to start kind of a

coaching consulting practice. And this was in 2007. So then

2008 came, and that was not a good time to be starting a

consulting practice. And even though I felt like I did, okay,

I realized that after a few years, I spent 95% of my time

selling, and then you know, delivering the actual goods was

just kind of 5% of the time. So I figured why not go back into

sales and join an early stage company as the first kind of

customer facing employee. It was a sales enablement, platform,

sales enablement, training kind of platform, really went from

there meant a lot of really good people really started to learn

the space of SAS and tech sales, and kinda took off from there.

And before long, I was recruited into Mimeo, where I spent the

last eight and a half years, and at that time was kind of burnt

out from a lot of things. And I just said, you know, kind of

give me the lowest responsibility that you could

find within revenue, which is customer success, just for it

was the simplest thing. So before I knew it, I got promoted

into being an account executive into enterprise account

executive business unit director, director of sales and

eventually became vice president overseeing the enterprise space.

Wow. So your career, I really liked how it

started. And you said you always knew you had the special I like

to call it secret sauce, that you had this leadership

capability, this thought leadership, this really wanting

to develop people? How did you know so early on that that was

something that you were destined to do?

Great question. My father would always say that

it's funny how little things kind of stay with us, right? I

just had this ability to organize people, whether it was

playing sports, you know, outside and on the playground,

or any kind of a project. It just kind of came very naturally

to me to delegate and lead and kind of oversee and manage

people. So ever since I was a kind of a little kid, my father

would always said, you know, you need to be a manager, because

you're just sort of innately kind of your thing. I don't

know, there was just a quality that I felt that I had bringing

people together and connecting them. And it really, I think

came down to just being able to see what somebody is good at,

and then kind of being confident about what you think that they

should be doing at any given time. You know, kind of

directing them to that.

Yeah, I think that a lot of us have this

innate ability to lead. You know, me being the oldest

sibling of three younger brothers. I think it was always

something that was in me, you know, like, hey, Wesleyne You're

a natural born leader. And I'm like, Oh, what are you talking

about? And then as my career evolved, I saw how that played

out like, yeah, and No matter whether I was the individual

contributor, or I was in a leadership role, I was always a

natural born leader.

Yeah, being an older sibling, that's the same

thing for me, right? You just kind of have to step into that.

You have to organize, you know, your kind of family dynamic.

Otherwise, you know, it doesn't work. So I think that that's

definitely a part of it.

Absolutely. And so you dipped your toe into

entrepreneurship? And then you're like, yeah, no, maybe not

so much. And so this phenomenon that you said is, like, I was

selling 95% of the time, and the delivery was only 5%? How did

you find yourself always selling? Was it because that was

your natural propensity? Or was it just what you had to do?

So it's, uh, the most important thing in any

business is customers, right. And if you don't have those than

there is no business really, that means you're just doing

stuff, right without getting paid. So I think it was by

necessity, right, you just need to, especially early on in that

type of business, it's all about your ability to kind of acquire

those first Cornerstone customers that you could then

use to build, and, you know, and so on, and so forth. And so that

was kind of a thing. But I've also had other kinds of ventures

that I've started or have been a part of over the years, and

where I'm at, you know, I'm gonna do the operational part,

I'm good at that as well. But inevitably, it's one of those

things where I'm like, I think I could do that better, you know,

good, go through this, here's how it should look, here's what

it is. And it's just something that innately comes to me. And

before you know, it is just easier to get in there and do it

yourself. When the business depends on it.

I completely understand. I find myself like,

I hate love. Because as a natural salesperson, it's like I

love the clothes, right? And then being an entrepreneur, you

have to balance the sales with the operations or the delivery

of it. So you mentioned being burned out at a point in your

career. This is something that you know, I think is so

important today, really understanding the need for

taking care of oneself self care. So what were the signs?

How did you know that you were at a point of burnout, and you

just needed to do something different?

Yeah. So again, having your own business, I

think there's a lot of societal romance around the idea of

somebody being an entrepreneur, and what really, that means

that, you know, it's always painted as this thing, or you're

in charge, you get to do whatever you want, you know, if

you want to sleep till noon, then that's your thing. No,

that's the opposite, right? What you do is you have the

responsibility of doing absolutely everything. And on

top of that, you get to work double the hours, and you're the

last one to get paid, right? Because everything is going into

this child of your business. So it's a difficult thing. And I

think a lot of people, myself included, would be much happier

doing the thing that comes naturally to them, and focusing

on that, and then letting somebody else. You know, being a

CEO of a company or an entrepreneur is not an easy

thing. And I think only a select few people can really do it, and

really have the sacrifice that it takes to make that happen,

right. And I got to witness very successful entrepreneurs who

have taken companies public, I got to work very closely with

them. And I preferred that dynamic of letting them do what

they do. And I can focus on doing what I'm good at, which is

acquiring customers, which is, you know, growing the business

from a revenue standpoint,

so how, what are some of the things that you knew

when you were like, Okay, it's time for me to make a change?

Because either an entrepreneur or a person who's working in a

corporate position, sometimes you don't know? Is it me? Is it

the company? Is the position? Is it my time of life? So what are

some of those indicators you use to say, Okay, I need to make a

big change within my career?

Well, I think seeing the growth, or perhaps

the lack thereof, I think, making connections with people

whom you think you want to be like, right, in finding those

mentors, especially early on in the career, I think is very

important. And then observing them right. And then seeing, you

know, here are the really cool things that I would like to have

out of life, you know, the big apartment, the network, the

prestige, so to speak, what's the hidden cost of that? Right?

You know, and that's the thing, where, and how is that? How does

that connect with your life? And ultimately, what you want to do,

right? Do you want to work 20 477 days a week? Do you work

really well, when there is no structure? Right? Where you kind

of have to define your own word? Or do you work better within a

structure that's outlined for you? So I think that was a part

of it. I think, you know, truthfully, I just wasn't seeing

the kind of traction that I was hoping to. And, you know, I, it

was one of those things where I gave it an honest shot. And

really, if I'm spending most of my time doing this thing, and I

could just be doing that thing, getting highly compensated for

it, and not have to worry about all of those other things. You

know, I think, I think the realization came when I was

doing something and I was building were working on my

website and build some widget that would be like a referral

thing and, and I got very excited about it. And then I

went, well, this isn't at all what I signed up to do. This

isn't at all what I was. decided to do what I thought I would be

doing. And I think that that was kind of one of those catalysts

of that. And I think talking to somebody who I looked up to, and

I said, you know, you do if I, if you were me, and he said, If

I were you, I'd get a job. And I kind of got hurt by that in the

beginning. And then it kind of sat there for a week or two, it

started to make sense. And then just life kind of handed me an

opportunity to join a very early stage company where the CEO had

just taken a company public, and I knew to be working directly

for him would be a really good career move in and ended up

being

awesome. So we don't often talk about the other

side of sales, customer success. And you at one point in your

career, you said, hey, I want to still do something in sales, but

maybe not as high pressure, something a little bit

different. So tell us about your role in customer success. And

what that taught you to exit because I really think that

everything that we do within our career helps us see something

from a different perspective or understand from a different

lens. So talk to us about that customer success role.

Yeah, and customer success is very much sales,

right? It's just the context of how you're going about it is a

little bit different. So for me, I was recruited into Mimeo. And

for years, I kept saying no, and actually how I got recruited

into it was through that job I ended up taking, we ended up

interviewing somebody, and then that person kind of stayed in

touch with me and tried to recruit me for, for joining the

company. And customer success was interesting, because you

here, you know, at that point, I spent close to eight years going

out and hunting. And as you may know that that's it's a

difficult thing. And most of the time, you know, people are not

excited to talk to you. So all of a sudden, I had a list of 200

customers who when I picked up the phone did not hang up, that

was not their immediate kind of thing I needed to overcome. They

actually say, Oh, hey, you know, Yep, thank you for calling. And

then we started talking about their business. And that was a

really a kind of a big shift, what was different for me, and

why I think I was able to succeed, the way that I did is I

brought that hustle that I've had for years, that pace of

working at a early stage company, or my own company, or

whatever it happens to be where you really need to make

everything happen. And all of a sudden, now I brought it into an

existing customer base. So I knew how to generate the

excitement and the passion. And then some of it is just, you

know, hard work, right, it was getting a hold of these people.

And you know, if somebody moved on to a different company, and

just came very naturally to me, and all of a sudden, before I

knew it, I was outperforming pretty much all of my all the

peers that were there. And I didn't come I didn't have a

plan. I felt like I've had a plan up until that point where

whatever company I joined and coming into Mimeo, I really

didn't have a plan that six months to spend before that was

just trying to figure out if I could start another business or

not. And I couldn't come up with an idea that would yield the

kind of results I wanted in the timeframe I was comfortable

with. I was looking to start a family. So I just said, hey, why

not do this. And I had no plan I just wanted to do really well. I

knew at some point I wanted to go into management, I didn't

even mention that. I just kind of took it on. And then once I

started to see the success, and I think it was evident to

everybody around me, that's when those conversations started

coming naturally of what do you want to do next. And I said, Oh,

I'm interested in managing. And I've had some of that experience

in the past. And all of a sudden, you know, the track was

available for me,

I love that you said by having to hustle and

hunt that really made you so much better and customer success

because I feel that a lot of companies, they just stick

people in customer success. First of all, everybody's

renamed it to from customer service to customer success,

because hey, this is what we want to do. But they're not

actually thinking this is essentially a sales job. Because

I like to say there's two ways to grow revenue by getting more

from existing customers or getting new customers what's

easier. And so your role after the sale has ended. I mean,

there's still so much more to do to retain the customer to get

more value from them, to sell them more products to get

referrals, all of those things that happen on the back end. So

as a customer success, individual contributor, you made

a very fast ascent to leadership, how and each and

every one of your roles. How did you set yourself up for the next

promotion?

Well, I'd say the first thing is you got to do

really well let the job description that's given to you

currently, right, exceed those expectations. First, make it

very known and clear that this is the path that you want right

to management, right. And I think that being on the other

side of it being a leader now for many years, there's nothing

better than somebody really asserting themselves and saying

this is what I want to do, especially if they're a star

performer because now you know what the career path is. Now you

know what the retention path for this person is? Because as

leaders, we're always thinking about that right? What is this

person doing especially if you see that they're super Star, you

know, how long can they stay in that role before they are either

approached or they get hungry for more or, you know, whatever

it happens to be right. So I think for me, it was, I'm going

to do really well, I'm going to keep my mouth shut, right, do

really well at what I'm supposed to be doing, and then make it

clear. And then the last part is actively start doing things that

to help others, right. So for me, it was, here's a template I

wrote, when I got to Miami, we were not as advanced as coming,

especially from the emerging sales enablement space, right,

there were a lot of tools I had at my disposal. And I just

looked around, and I said, I could do this 10 times more

efficiently. And so that was one of those things where I said,

here, this is how you find contacts. This is how you

utilize the Yesware and utilize templates to write an email

once, right, and just created a lot of systems that really

worked for me, or I've learned, you know, in the past, but

again, coming at it with a lot more experienced than I think

that the folks that would be in that a lot more wide experience,

there were people that spent more time in a sales role, but I

just had a very eclectic kind of group of skills and talents, and

just things that I've learned along the way, and then actively

sharing that, like I was not holding on to any of it. So by

the time it came to making the promotion, I've already had the

respect of my peers, because not only was I outperforming, you

know, just about most of them was one of the top performers.

So that spoke for itself. But I was also actively doing things

to help and contributing in meetings and whatever it happens

to be. So one kind of that opening happened, basically, the

team stepped up and said, you know, Gene should lead us. And

you know, that's the ultimate in terms of helping convince people

to give somebody a leadership job as if the team that they're

already on says, you know, I think it'd be a good idea if you

know, he steps in or she steps in, and I would follow them.

Right. So I think that was a big thing.

You gave us some really, really good gems there.

And I want to make sure that I highlight them many times, we

think that, hey, a top performer is going to be a good manager.

And yes, that is one component. But something else that you said

is having that propensity just to help when you didn't have to

write just to show up and say, Hey, let me show you how to do

this. Here's a template, stepping up as a leader without

their leader title, I think is a really important thing that we

should look for, when we're looking to promote from within.

Yeah, raise your hands for things, raise your

hands for this, right. You know, I just recently, last year,

COVID kind of hit us hard. And we're in the space of business,

the business content distribution. And a lot of that

happens during, you know, meetings in person events,

training sessions, you know, whatever it happens to be. And

obviously, that was impacted. But as a result of it, we had to

kind of shrink down our sales development team, as well as

some other teams. And it was difficult, but we got through on

the other side, we're growing aggressively, I think we've had

probably one of the best years we've ever had in terms of

growth. And we'll continue on that path. But one of the things

coming out of it was we needed to rebuild our sales development

team. So I stepped up and I said, I want to do the

recruiting for it, I'm gonna hire the manager, I'm gonna hire

the team back up. All right. And luckily, in our organization,

you get those kinds of chances. But that was interested in me,

and I was able to deliver and learn something new along the

way. And, but those are those kinds of things where step up,

and if there's a project to be done, then put your you know,

make it clear that you want that responsibility.

Absolutely remove the it's not my job, so

I'm not going to do it, or I'm not getting paid for that.

Because if that's your mindset, then leadership is not what you

should be doing at this point, right? You're still in the

mindset of an individual contributor, because as you

said, it was like, Okay, I didn't have to, but I actually

cared about the success of the organization. And since I cared

about the success of the organization, I'm going to say,

yes, hey, let me help push this initiative forward.

100%, I do think that it's a there's a good point

that you made about the individual contributor does not

automatically make a good leader. And I think a lot of

individual contributors are very, especially in sales.

They're all about getting the job done and all about there's,

there's that kind of mentality of I'm all about it. And listen,

we have fabulous sales reps. I think maybe it was unique in

that we're able to retain our talent in a way that I have not

seen other organizations. That's why I've been here for eight and

a half years. You know, but the folks that I managed now, I

mean, the company's you know, 2324 years old, our most senior

sales rep is one has been with the company for 20 years. Wow.

And that's a big testament to the product and the service that

we have because salespeople won't stay at a company for 20

years unless they're doing well. You know, it's 20 years. It's 15

years. It's 14 years. It's those kinds of things that those are

the kinds of folks I manage these days. But all that is to

say is they're very happy in being an individual contributor,

they have a lifestyle that they've built around that. And

that's what they want to do. Right? Certainly, they've had

opportunities, you know, if they would have wanted to become

leaders, in fact, some of them have, and then decided to take a

step back and say, I'm happier as an individual contributor,

this is all something that I could control. I know how to do

this, I know how to do this well, as opposed to being in

charge of other people, which comes with its own burdens.

Yeah. And I think that as a salesperson, or

even as a sales manager, understanding what your true

passions and drives are in life are important, because there are

companies that I've worked with, and we've said, Hey, this

manager isn't a good manager, but there's such a strong

individual contributor, let's give them the option to go back

and be an individual contributor. And they worked

well, right. And then you have that salesperson who's been

trying to move into management for so long, and they just can't

get a break. And you it takes a person to say, Hey, I see you

and I want to elevate you. And so I think that as a

salesperson, and as a leader, we need to recognize what our

team's what their long term path is. Because some people are

like, I just want to be in sales for 30 years and retire and be

done. Some people are like, I want to go all the way I want to

be a CEO one day, I want to be a CRO one day, and that's okay.

And our job as leaders is to really help that person develop

100%. And it's also okay to say, I want to

manage a team, I don't want to be the CRO, I don't want to be

the numbers guy or gal, right? I don't want the responsibility

for the vision of where the state of sales organization is

going. But I'm passionate about developing talent about closing

sales and, and managing people. There's nothing wrong with that

either, right. And I think, again, there's a lot of societal

pressure to say, oh, continue pushing upwards at all costs,

right. And then there's that idea that, you know, people get

promoted up until the level where, you know, they become

incompetent, because they've sort of got promoted above their

capabilities. And then they think that they have to stay

there. And a lot of people would be, again, happier, depending on

where you are, because there's certain things that you're just

better at, or you prefer according to your lifestyle,

just because it seems like there's more prestige at the top

does not actually mean that that's what you will be happier

doing. And you know, what you'd want to do?

So you've been at your company for eight years,

and in your role for a number of years in through a pandemic, and

no less. So I'm curious, what are some of the current

challenges that you're experiencing? And things that

you're doing to overcome them?

Yeah, great question. So you know, one of

the things that I'm kind of really proud of is just the way

that our organization has to respond quickly and swiftly to

this pandemic. You know, it's a testament to our I think, our

CEO and our leadership at the executive level, because, you

know, starting a print tech company in the late 90s, and

then keeping it alive through the because we're actually a.com

company like one of the original ones, right. So it's mimeo.com,

Inc, but to have that company through 911, right, and we're so

many things got impacted through 2008, where so much of our

business just disappeared overnight and never came back.

And, you know, continuing that through and then going to the

pandemic, they acted quickly and swiftly and we had to make some

really difficult decisions to consolidate down and, you know,

for a time actually had to step back into being an individual

contributor in order for the math to work for everybody. So

coming out of that last year, I had to both carry quota

individually, and, you know, step up that way and manage a

team. And then as I said, on top of that, I've volunteered to

help rebuild and rehire our sales development team. So there

was a lot to do as far as challenges. Now I think, just

like anything else, you know, making sure that we're hiring

good people that we continue to keep our current employees

happy. And there's a new generation of sales folks

entering the workforce, who are different and have different

values, different type of work ethics are motivated by

different things, and recruiting them and retaining them and

training them and getting them to be successful in a day and

age where it's becoming increasingly more difficult to

get a hold of somebody from an outbound perspective. So you

have to really work on you know, at our company, it's been

hashtag win as a team, right? Because sales is no longer a you

know, back in the day, you could just hire more salespeople and

they will call call their way or whatever it happens to be into

business. You can't do that. Now. It's customer success on

one end of the funnel, it's marketing and awareness at the

other end of that funnel, and sales folks are there to help

bridge that gap, right, and help evangelize. So really finding

that, that kind of working as a team approach where I'm now

aligning my team with some of these folks Just coming out of

college was so green, and then teaching them and building the

work ethic and the focus that it takes to be successful. I'd say

those are the kind of the biggest challenges that we've

been kind of in, in the midst of of addressing right now.

Yes, the multi generational workforce. And we

have, I think, four or five generations in the workforce

right now. And so really having to lead the baby boomers that

are on their way out all the way down to Gen Z, right, who are

just entering the workforce and having to balance that, right.

Because one thing that sales leaders know is every person is

an individual. And yes, that's true. But then you also have to

go into those generational things, right? So you can send

your Gen Z salesperson in a quick tags. But if you do that

to a baby boomer, they're probably offended. Right? It's

so you have to understand what each person needs and making

sure that that person that's just coming into the workforce,

kind of like you are when you're like, I was so excited. And they

hired me because I was high energy. We know that it takes a

little bit more than high energy these days to be a good

salesperson.

Yeah, 100%. And I think there's that focus. And

yeah, I mean, as I said, my most senior rep has been with the

company for 20 years, I think the most senior person at at the

company I've hired, she has more sales experience than I've been

a year as I've been alive, right. And she's amazing. But

it's very different than somebody that we've hired, that

is just out of college, they've never had a single sales job in

their life. And they're things that you get put in a position

to get put in as a manager that's completely new, and you

don't know how to react because there are these social norms.

And now this new generation seems to completely break them,

right. So you don't necessarily know how to react with somebody

just gets hired. And then a week into it, they send you a text in

the morning saying, I got up and I'm feeling kind of slow today,

I'm going to be out the first half the day, and I go, I don't

know how to respond to that, right? What's the appropriate

thing I understand mental health, you know, mental

wellness, and all of that. And it's just a very different kind

of thing, where in the past, that's like, you know, you'd

have to be on your deathbed to not make it to work. In the

first in the first year of your job, right? You're there, you

know, at 730. And you don't leave until seven. And that's

just that's not the case now, right? And everybody wants

flexibility. I think individualism is a lot more

important and all those things, so really have to adjust for

that and understand who you're talking to, and how you could

connect with them in a way that makes sense. Right? So how do

you drive that urgency while still being sensitive to their

individual feelings and mental health and all that stuff?

That's an interesting journey.

Absolutely. I 100% agree. I'm just you know,

giggling because thinking about like, you know, it's like, okay,

even if there isn't a rule of you're on probation, it's like,

the first three months, you just don't call in, you don't take

off because you're just scared, right? And that's kind of the

way that we grew up in being culture where but my younger

brother, he's like, oh, yeah, I don't, I don't feel good. I'm

just going in late. I'm like, What do you mean, you're going

and like, helped me understand what does that mean? Like, help

me, right. And so I think as leaders, we have to understand

what we have to do to push a little because that same person

who's like, I'm coming in late, they'll be working until eight

or nine o'clock at night, right? Because I like I'm gonna do my

eight hours, I'm just gonna do it at a different time. There

was one time I had an employee, and she was like, Yeah, I just,

you know, is working eight to five, it's not working for me.

So I was wondering, Can I come in at 12? And I was like, we'll

try it. And we'll see how it goes. Unfortunately, it didn't

work out well, for but I was open to it. Right. I was like,

let's try it. I'm not just gonna say no, as we would have been in

the past, like, no, it's in the box.

Yeah, I think you bring up a good point, as you

want to be willing, you want to be flexible, and you want to be

accommodating. But you also have to remember the overall culture

that you're looking to build, right? So and your culture is

it's what you do, right? It's what you let people get away

with. It's what you accept, right? So if you have to

counterbalance that with, I want to be sensitive to this person's

individual needs. But if I do that, for them, I've just set a

new standard. And then you created a new culture in which

it's acceptable to set your own hours and work from whenever to

whenever and you want. In some cases, that's okay, depending on

what you do. But if you're a sales team, and you know you're

selling into the East Coast, probably not the best idea.

Exactly, exactly. Make sure that the

company's mission, visions and values are aligned with the

teams and it goes down to the individual so you can make sure

that that translates up and down the food chain. So you've had a

very, very vast broad career and so I'm curious what is one thing

personally or professionally that you are most proud Have

accomplishing?

Well, on the individual, a personal front

that it's, it's by far and away having kids, I have a couple of

young boys ages, one just turned 15 months today and the other

one is five and a half. So nothing has been as rewarding or

as challenging or as, as far as pride. Those are far and away my

number one. Yeah. But from a career standpoint, I think just

being able to persevere and to come into an organization and

really grow through the ranks and get to a place where you

really do feel like you're part of the actual culture of the

company, and you're getting to shape that. I think that that

would be the thing I'm most proud of. from a professional

standpoint.

Awesome. Your boys and your career. I have two

boys two, so 15 months and five. I can imagine you're having lots

of fun right now. But

yeah, I love it. It's challenging. It's hard,

right. And as soon as my work at memmio ends, that's when my real

job begins of being a father and getting, you know, doing the

homework and cleaning and making them dinner and getting them to

bed. So it never stops.

Yes. Homework. We have a couple weeks left

here. Like oh, yes. Oh, work. I didn't know, second grade was

gonna be so hard, man. It seems

like I'm the one doing homework not you know, to

be fair, I mean, he's in kindergarten, right? So I think

there's just an I think this translates back into sales is I

think there's this idea that more volume of something is

going to lead to better results. And whether it's more homework

or more, you know, start younger or whatever, I don't necessarily

subscribe to that. I think you have to be smart and see if the

results are really matching the hypothesis of, hey, if you start

somebody doing something early, or you give them this stuff,

does that actually make them better? Or do you feel like

you're doing something, right? That's the old kind of the jokes

around man and sales management. As you know, the manager just

kind of comes in and says, you know, are you guys working hard,

and you know, and make sure we call all the leads and make sure

you're following up and tell them this. And if there's

anything at all you need you call me for help. And after a

while, you kind of roll your eyes and go, Yeah, okay, come

on. I understand my business and I get it, but you feel like you

have to say something. So really being able to add value to any

kind of an individual contributor, really see what it

is that they need, and sometimes reflect back to them, the things

that are unpleasant for them, but will push them harder, that

I think is really what defines a really key successful leader

that could get the most out of out of people, even against

their own sort of pre judgments. You know,

I love to say quality over quantity, it's more

important to have valuable touches and valuable impact than

just a lot. So let's have a good one meeting a week instead of

three or four that are just beating you over the head with

KPIs or going through the CRM. Right, let's focus on what is

important. 100% Thank you so much, Jean, this has been a such

a delightful conversation, what is the one best way that people

can get in contact with you if they're curious?

Sure. I'm on LinkedIn, just search for me

Jean Plotkin memmio. And that would be the most direct way to

get in contact with me, or you could send me an email. Je

plotkin@mimeo.com

Awesome. And all of that will be in the show

notes. So thank you so much again, Jean, for sharing your

time, your talent and your expertise with us. We definitely

appreciate it.

Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed

the conversation.

Awesome. And that was another episode of the

transformed sales podcast. Remember, it's all about the

science of selling. It's not just about beating your

salespeople over the head with KPIs. Focus on teaching them the

how behind selling, not just the what, until next time