With the rise of celebrity podcasts, many indie
Evo Terra:podcasters are worried about being overlooked and outspent.
Evo Terra:But another concern is the lowering of the quality bar as
Evo Terra:the pace of these shows continues.
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Evo Terra:Hello, and welcome to another Podcast Pontifications with me, Evo Terra.
Evo Terra:Are celebrities making it harder for indie podcasters?
Evo Terra:Well, that is the current buzz and question that is out there today.
Evo Terra:But if you've been around for a while, and I have been around for
Evo Terra:a while, you will know that this is very common recurring buzz.
Evo Terra:It's just, you know, here we are with celebrities today.
Evo Terra:Because look, we don't like it.
Evo Terra:We don't like it when big players, big industry, big tech, big celebrities
Evo Terra:come in to the space that we spend all of our time, energy, and effort,
Evo Terra:our blood, sweat, and tears laying out the groundwork, doing the hard stuff
Evo Terra:to make podcasting what it is today.
Evo Terra:And here come these big guys, plop right down and just take over.
Evo Terra:We collectively do not like that.
Evo Terra:I understand that.
Evo Terra:I don't necessarily agree, but I certainly understand it.
Evo Terra:More to the point, I don't really see the need for quite as much alarm and
Evo Terra:concern as we have about this today.
Evo Terra:And I say that because I know as well as you know that the internet, the place
Evo Terra:where all digital content is stored and referenced and welcomed, and podcasting
Evo Terra:is digital content, it's big enough.
Evo Terra:The internet is big enough to hold it all.
Evo Terra:Celebrities doing their things, indies doing their things, big corporations, big
Evo Terra:tech, whatever - I think it's big enough.
Evo Terra:I really do.
Evo Terra:But one thing that I do understand and commiserate with my fellow podcasters,
Evo Terra:indie, big, or otherwise, is that these celebrities that are dropping podcasts
Evo Terra:on us now, they don't have the same discoverability challenges that we have.
Evo Terra:Now, I'm still not sold that we really do have, truly, a discoverability problem.
Evo Terra:I think more it's a findability challenge or individual podcasts
Evo Terra:have a discoverability problem.
Evo Terra:But that's for a future, and probably lots of past episodes.
Evo Terra:I'm not going to dwell on that for a moment.
Evo Terra:In fact, I want to recognize the fact that podcast apps and directories
Evo Terra:where this so-called discoverability happens, they love celebrity content.
Evo Terra:Holy cow.
Evo Terra:They love it when new celebrities drop new podcasts or existing
Evo Terra:celebrities drop new podcasts.
Evo Terra:And I don't think you and I should really underestimate the number of people who
Evo Terra:listen to whatever is listed on the homepage of their listening app of choice.
Evo Terra:I know that's anathema to you and I, who rarely even bother to look at that thing.
Evo Terra:But still, don't underestimate the number of people who listen to whatever
Evo Terra:content is pushed in front of them.
Evo Terra:They will do it a lot.
Evo Terra:And the reason they will do that a lot is because people, they like celebrities.
Evo Terra:But the reason that the apps will push the celebrity content to the home
Evo Terra:page is because apps need to keep up their MAUs, their Monthly Active User
Evo Terra:count, to keep their investors happy, to keep whatever income sources they
Evo Terra:have happy, and to show that people are actively using their app and it's
Evo Terra:going up and to the right all the time.
Evo Terra:So they are going to keep promoting anything that has name recognition.
Evo Terra:A celebrity drops a podcast, you can bet your bottom dollar it's
Evo Terra:going to go to the homepage really quickly of just about every app.
Evo Terra:So long as they are good, obviously, or maybe the better way to say
Evo Terra:that is as long as they are a good enough, that's no problem.
Evo Terra:I think we, who are not celebrities, will still get some spillover from
Evo Terra:those celebrity podcast listeners when those listeners decide that
Evo Terra:they want to go a little deeper, and they want to see what other shows
Evo Terra:might be available in that app.
Evo Terra:Where I really worry is that low effort, and by low effort, I mean low
Evo Terra:quality, podcasts that are hosted by these celebrities are going to have
Evo Terra:a chilling effect on podcasting.
Evo Terra:Now, the reality is most of those celebrity podcasts
Evo Terra:actually are well-produced.
Evo Terra:They've got a big production house, typically, behind these and
Evo Terra:producers and writers, just like television, and other people, they're
Evo Terra:investing heavily in this space.
Evo Terra:And so they're working, generally speaking, to make a good quality show.
Evo Terra:But, what happens if the income they've projected that makes all of this
Evo Terra:worthwhile, whether that's selling ads or merchandise or whatever it is, what
Evo Terra:if the reality of those incomes is lower?
Evo Terra:So that therefore, the studios, or whoever it is, that's funding the
Evo Terra:production of the show, these celebrity podcasts are now looking to lower their
Evo Terra:costs on the next show because they can't be hemorrhaging money like that.
Evo Terra:It's cheaper to make a podcast, true, but these celebrity-style
Evo Terra:podcasts are not cheap.
Evo Terra:We're not talking hundreds, we're talking thousands, and oftentimes
Evo Terra:tens of thousands or more.
Evo Terra:So if it's not working, if they can't justify that cost, but there's
Evo Terra:still a need to get celebrities out there, then they just go
Evo Terra:cheaper, which lowers the quality.
Evo Terra:And a little lower next time, and a little lower next time because they get
Evo Terra:caught up in the idea of cost savings.
Evo Terra:It's just audio.
Evo Terra:How easy is it is?
Evo Terra:Yeah, well...
Evo Terra:And I don't think there's much of a danger in them doing that because
Evo Terra:the real fans of the celebrities, they've got a pretty high tolerance
Evo Terra:for mediocrity from that celebrity.
Evo Terra:They want this.
Evo Terra:I mean, they love the celebrity because they love the stuff.
Evo Terra:That's why they're fans.
Evo Terra:But for the rest of us, we don't really love it so much.
Evo Terra:So let's not go back to underestimating the percentage of people, the number
Evo Terra:of people who listen to whatever it is that our podcast app is pushing
Evo Terra:towards them on the home screen.
Evo Terra:Look, if what's being pushed stinks, then the other celebrity shows listed next to
Evo Terra:that celebrity show also stink because that quality had been continued to be
Evo Terra:lowered, as I mentioned previously, and the other options in the app don't look
Evo Terra:like anything you even recognize, are those people going to be hanging around?
Evo Terra:If your first experience on an app was you came for celebrities and the celebrity
Evo Terra:stuff is garbage and there's nothing else there, it's kind of like the fast
Evo Terra:food - or not the fast food, it's the checkout aisle in the grocery store.
Evo Terra:Once you've been spoiled or fooled by those magazines once,
Evo Terra:you're not picking up another one.
Evo Terra:You know, those same people might decide to give audio books a go where
Evo Terra:they can listen to celebrities or at least pick from the bestselling titles.
Evo Terra:They may decide to switch over to their music listening app, which
Evo Terra:either is filled with songs they like on their own, or the apps
Evo Terra:are good at pushing towards them.
Evo Terra:So look, I'm not anti-celebrity podcast.
Evo Terra:I still believe that celebrity podcasts can and do and will continue to bring
Evo Terra:new listeners into our ecosystem.
Evo Terra:It's my hope that these apps and directory developers out there, and the designers
Evo Terra:out there, are paying attention and playing their part in providing a - oh,
Evo Terra:let's just call it a well-balanced diet on those home screens to draw users
Evo Terra:of that app in deeper into the app.
Evo Terra:I don't think we have to split it by celeb and indie, but I think they
Evo Terra:just need to do a very good job of making sure they're building it so
Evo Terra:that people can continue down the path of podcasting in that own app.
Evo Terra:And then I think we can survive this flood of celebrity podcasts.
Evo Terra:I want to end by saying congratulations to Mr.
Evo Terra:Bryan Barletta of Sounds Profitable.
Evo Terra:A few days ago, as you might've heard, Bryan and his wife, Sierra, welcomed
Evo Terra:their second child into their household.
Evo Terra:That's Bridger.
Evo Terra:He is here with us now.
Evo Terra:Bryan, if you don't know, writes, and I edit, the Sounds Profitable
Evo Terra:newsletter and the accompanying podcast.
Evo Terra:You should definitely read and listen to that if you can.
Evo Terra:I'll put a link in the episode details.
Evo Terra:And if you got any value at all out of today's episode, or the other content,
Evo Terra:the other episodes I bring to you four days a week right here on Podcast
Evo Terra:Pontifications, please return that value by visiting BuyMeACoffee.com/evoterra,
Evo Terra:and, well, buying me a virtual coffee.
Evo Terra:That's it.
Evo Terra:I shall be back tomorrow with yet another Podcast Pontifications.
Evo Terra:Cheers!
Evo Terra:Podcast Pontifications is written and narrated by Evo Terra.
Evo Terra:He's on a mission to make podcasting better.
Evo Terra:Links to everything mentioned in today's episode are in the notes
Evo Terra:section of your podcast listening app.
Evo Terra:A written-to-be-read article based on today's episode is available at
Evo Terra:podcastpontifications.com where you'll also find a video version and a corrected
Evo Terra:transcript, both created by Allie Press.
Evo Terra:Podcast Pontifications is a production of Simpler Media.