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Jo Middleton on Ethical Dog Training: Consent-Based Handling, Smarter Canine Education & Confidence for Pet Pros
Episode 2110th September 2025 • The Yappy Hour • Yappily
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Welcome to The Yappy Hour powered by Yappily!

In this episode, host Nathan Dunleavy talks with Jo Middleton — Director of Studies at Canine Principles, Principal at the ISCP (International School for Canine Psychology), and MD at the International Institute for Canine Ethics (ICE) — about making dog training ethical, accessible, and effective for real life.

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 Intro: Why education changes everything

02:08 Jo’s journey: rescue roots, ethics, and study leadership

08:24 Consent-based handling & reading “no” in canine body language

14:40 Confidence vs. competence: imposter syndrome in pet pros

18:55 Biggest gaps: nutrition, first aid, equipment, sleep, pain

25:30 Guardians: how to find ethical help you can trust

31:10 Equipment that protects bodies (two-point harnesses)

35:42 Quick-fix culture vs. real behaviour change

40:05 Rehoming support: beyond the rigid “3-3-3” timeline

45:18 Student-friendly learning: CPD hubs, live courses, tutors

50:12 Community & mentorship: finding your voice

54:10 What’s next: CPD accreditation, writer’s retreat, conferences

58:20 Final message: compassion ≠ weakness — it’s strength

Key topics

Ethical dog training & consent-based handling

Canine body language and advocacy at home

Practical CPD routes for trainers, walkers, groomers, vets/vet nurses

Nutrition, pain, sleep, and welfare basics that change behaviour

Safer walking equipment vs. collars/chains/slip leads

Rehoming support that adapts to the individual dog

Confidence & mindset for ethical pet professionals

📚 Resources mentioned

Canine Principles — ethical courses, CPD, first aid

ISCP — canine psychology diplomas; free bite-sized communication course

International Institute for Canine Ethics (ICE) — professional membership, Ethical Canine Professional Register, Three Stages of Adjustment resource

🙌 If this helped you, please like, subscribe, and comment with your biggest takeaway. Share this with a dog guardian or pet pro who’d love ethical, science-based guidance.

🐾 The Yappy Hour is powered by Yappily — helping dog lovers and pet professionals learn, grow, and support happier dogs.

Transcripts

Speaker:

Welcome to another episode of The

Yappy Hour, powered by Yappily.

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I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, and

today I'm joined by the truly inspiring

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Jo Middleton, director of Studies

at Canine Principles Principal at

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the ISCP and Managing Director at.

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The IICE or ICE and all round trailblazer

when it comes to education and ethics

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in the dog world, whether you are a pet

guardian wanting to understand your dog

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better, or a dog professional looking

to grow your skills, Jo's work has

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likely touched your journey in some way.

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We are diving into how education

empowers dog praise, why

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continued learning matters, and

how ethical accessible training.

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Benefits dogs.

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They're humans and the entire industry.

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So grab a cup of tea, settle

in, and let's get started.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Welcome back to The Yappy

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Hour, powered by Yappily.

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I'm your host, Nathan D.

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Levy, and I'm so excited to bring you

another episode of The Yappy Hour.

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Today.

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Joining me is Jo Middleton.

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Welcome to the Yappy

Jo, how are you doing,

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Jo Middleton: Hi, Nathan.

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I'm all good.

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Thank you.

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Really excited to be here.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Great.

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Thanks for joining us.

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One thing I forgot to say before

we hit record is that it does come

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out of a little message saying that

the quality isn't very good, but

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you don't have to worry about that.

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'cause when it's all played back and

edited, it's all absolutely fine.

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So yeah, so we've had a few

internet problems and bits and

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pieces and that, but then we've.

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You know, we are pros.

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We can, we can do this.

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So Jo, I'm so excited to chat

with you today and to learn

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more about you and your journey.

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But for anyone who doesn't know you yet,

could you give us the whirlwind Jo intro.

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So here you are, what you do,

and what keeps you so passionate

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about canine education.

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Jo Middleton: So my name's Jamie

Tilton and I head up the International

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Institute for Canine Ethics, the

International School for Canine

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Psychology and Canine Principles.

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I've.

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Been in the doggy world

a very, very long time.

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Actually quarter of a century.

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I'd say quarter of a century.

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More in the, ethical doggy world.

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Whereas before that I grew up

around the show ring and it

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was very much aversive methods.

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It was back in the Barbara Woodhouse days.

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Yeah.

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And as a child, you going to ring craft

classes and obedience classes, it was

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not at all in line with my values.

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So.

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Got involved in the rescue world back

kind of 99, millennium and then retrained.

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I was told never to work with

children never to work with children.

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Never to work with dogs because

I'd never make any money.

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So I had to get a proper job as a child.

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That's what I was told.

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So I went down the corporate route.

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I'm bilingual French English.

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Yeah, it is.

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It set, sets you up with some skills,

doesn't it, to that you can bring forward.

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Yeah, but I'm bilingual French English

was brought up bilingually and so I

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worked in Paris for quite a while and,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: wow.

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Jo Middleton: Did lots of different

bits and bobs but the dogs are

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always where my heart's been.

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Been around the education world for for

quite a while and been self-employed.

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Set up my first business in 2000 when

I was pregnant with my eldest daughter.

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Yeah, nothing better to do.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I'm pregnant.

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I'll just set up a business.

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Jo Middleton: Why not?

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It was wonderful.

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I had lots of support.

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Yeah, I did.

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Had lots of support from the Prince's

trust and the Chamber of Commerce.

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A really cool, cool journey.

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I.

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Yeah.

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So I guess what keeps me passionate

is my work in rescue and that you

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see things that you can't unsee.

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And it's it's not an area that

in all the years that I've, I've

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worked in rescue from kind of kennel

assessments, microchipping, transport

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home checks through to trustee level.

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I don't see any change over all

the years that I've been involved.

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So that's a massive area that

keeps the fire burning in my

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belly to keep educating really.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Brilliant.

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Oh great.

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I'd love, I learned some things that

I didn't know about, 'cause obviously

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we haven't known each other that

long, but in the last year or so.

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But it's always great getting,

I love a bit of history and

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I feel like all these great

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Jo Middleton: I'm not that old Nathan.

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A bit history.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: no.

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You know what I mean?

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Like, I love what I mean is that I

love people that have got a story,

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Jo Middleton: Yeah.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

you know, a story behind them.

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Like, and I was just about to say

that, you know, I speak to all these

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great people that have been in the

industry for a little bit longer than me

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because I've only, I feel like a baby.

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I've only been in the

industry seven years.

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And then I speak to all you great people

and you've been, you know, you've been

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in the industry for a lot longer and it's

just so great just to hear, you know,

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your stories rather than your histories.

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As to why you

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Jo Middleton: the fossil out.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

as to why you fell into it maybe,

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but some similarities there.

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'cause I came from a corporate

background in banking, corporate

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business banking, and I, I use that now

in my mentoring and stuff, so perfect.

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Thank you so much for

your whirlwind intro.

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So we're gonna move on

to our next question.

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So I love this 'cause you had not.

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You head up, not only one,

but multiple organizations.

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We've got canine principles

the ISCP and is O-I-I-C-E.

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What is your driving force

behind these platforms, Jo?

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Jo Middleton: I guess

each platform exists to

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fill a gap where I wish I'd had additional

support myself going becoming a.

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Sort of, well, we never

stop learning, do we?

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It's every day's a school day

and every single individual dog,

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teachers us something different.

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But canine principles is all

about the accessible online

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ethical learning platform.

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Whether you are a dog guardian and you've

got a dog that maybe is pulling on the

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lead and you want some guidance around

how to help stop that, but without.

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Hurting the dog emotionally or

physically, or whether you are a dog

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professional and you're looking for

a formal off quail qualification.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

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Jo Middleton: Canine principle

is kind of a one stop shop for

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everything, whereas the international

school for canine Psychology.

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I mean, the ISCP and I have

known each other since birth

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since the ICPs birth, not mine.

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Because I know, I know Lisa Tenson

Dolma, the founder and I, I, she

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lived, she's not far away from me.

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And so,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh

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Jo Middleton: we, we've been around

each other for, for a long time.

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The ICP and I when, when she founded it.

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So the ISEP is more about the

psychology side of things.

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Yes, we've got a lot of behaviour

stuff and we really focus on making

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sure that everything is done where

there's a tutor accessible one-to-one.

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As well as the online learning, but

it's really a heart-centered diploma

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school for professionals who really

want to get on the same geek level

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because we're all geeks.

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And and then the International Institute

for Canine Ethics, which obviously

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you are hosting some of our member

meetings as well, which is fabulous.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Jo Middleton: The, the International

Institute for Canine Ethics, it

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really sort of bridges the emotional

and the ethical side of care.

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So it's for every.

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Everyone who comes into contact with

dogs as part of their day-to-day role.

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So whether you are a receptionist at

a veterinary practice, whether you are

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a canine hydro, whether you're a vet

nurse, whether you are a vet, whether

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you are a dog walker, borderer, groomer,

behaviourist, trainer, if you come

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into dog contact with dogs as part of

your day-to-day role, then you need

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to understand consent based handling.

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You need to understand how to

recognize the signs when a dog's

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saying no and what alternatives.

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Can be done around that.

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So the International Institute

for Canine Ethics is an.

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A professional membership organization

that is really, really integral.

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And we've just launched our Ethical

Canine Professional Register.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

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Jo Middleton: assessing organization.

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I.

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For the A BTC, so we can support people

in going down that pathway as well.

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And there are so many exciting things

in the pipeline for the members at ice,

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which I'm not able to disclose just yet,

but there are lots of exciting things.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I might have to tap you up

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for that at the end as well.

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That's one of my questions, but No, you

can, you can, you can tell us what you

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can, but no, I love being part of ice.

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Love you know, my mentoring.

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Business is obviously a, a proud

partner and I obviously help

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Jo Middleton: Yep.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

the groups on Facebook and

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host some of the meetings.

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But no, I love everything it stands for.

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And I liked

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Jo Middleton: Hmm.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

as well, is that we're continually

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learning from our own dogs, aren't we?

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And the dogs we

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Jo Middleton: Yeah

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: but as.

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canine professionals, I dunno

about you, but I used to always

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be a bit of a coarse junkie.

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We're always learning, all

of us are always learning.

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We're always striving to be the best

version of ourself for caregivers

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and their, you know, their pets.

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And yeah, I used to get like, you know,

that our whole shiny new course syndrome

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and then had to sort of stop myself

recently and decide, well, I need to

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actually finish some of these courses.

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Jo Middleton: I gotta catch up on myself.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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But as

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Jo Middleton: Hmm.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

we are continually investing in

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our own CPD, our own education.

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And that's great that we've got sort of

platforms and organizations like Canine

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Principles and ICE to help with that.

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So thank you so much for telling

us a bit more around those.

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And moving on to our next section,

which leads in nicely as to why

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education changes everything.

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Jo, my first question is, why is education

such a game changer in the dog world?

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Especially for us pet pros.

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Jo Middleton: It is quite a layered

response to that question, I guess,

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because one is, I don't know if you've

ever watched a film and then watched it

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a second time and seen things that you

didn't see the first time or heard things

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that you didn't hear the first time It.

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It's really the same with

education, so you can hear the same.

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Messaging, you can hear the same learn

the same thing multiple times, but you'll

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take what you need from it at that time

and, and what's relevant to you, the dogs

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that you are around at that time, and

where your mindset is at at that time.

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One of the wonderful things with

the International Institute.

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Institute for canine ethics is that we

are able to help professionals to have the

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support to springboard their businesses

from and really develop and grow.

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And that's a, a really key part because

what we see so often with ethical dog

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professionals and canine professionals

who strive to be the best versions

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of themselves that they can because

they genuinely do deeply care about.

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The dogs that they're working with

and the service that they're providing

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is we see massive imposter syndrome.

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When you're saying about

being a coarse junkie.

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Oh my gosh, yeah, absolutely.

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Course junkie number one over here.

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But what we can't do is let

let our learning go sort of.

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We play it down a lot and what we need

to do is have a look at even some of the

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major dog food brands that aren't in line

with our values and maybe don't provide

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the nutritious value that they should.

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That's a great example.

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They've got the big marketing budgets.

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And their confidence is

trumping the competence of the

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food that they're providing.

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And we see that sometimes in the dog

world where maybe someone who isn't

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practicing ethically or isn't setting

the dogs up for emotional safety.

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With the methods that they're using.

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They may have the confidence, but they

haven't done the progression pathway.

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They haven't done the

learning, the education.

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They don't continue to strive to be the

best version of themselves that they can

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be and have that competence element I.

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But because they're confident and

they're visible it's it's maybe

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seen that they are the go-to expert.

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So, because so many dog professionals

do really care deeply and the

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ethical practices in the consent

based practices are, are, are really

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the way forwards for the future of,

of dog professionals everywhere.

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To provide access to the right

learning means that we are able to

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give the knowledge of the language,

the context, the platform really to be

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able to really stop reacting and start.

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Really embracing how we are able to

support dogs and their guardians moving

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forwards and to find our voices and

speak out for the dogs because if we

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don't advocate for them then we're

not able to really, truly support the

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dogs in having the emotional safety

and the the ability to be heard.

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So that's why I'm one of the

reasons why I'm so passionate.

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But also

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I can waffle about it for days.

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Nathan,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh

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It.

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It it, I love it.

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Jo Middleton: I, it is so important

to me to really understand the, the

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gaps in our knowledge and identify

them, and then focus on filling

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those gaps, but also to keep our

learning current because there are new

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Jo Middleton: being

published all the time.

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There are new.

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Books coming out all the

time, new research coming out.

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So it's really important for us

to keep our learning current and

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to understand the nervous system,

to understand pain behaviours, to

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understand how much sleep a dog needs.

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It, it's just the foundational

stuff that we need to really keep

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reinforcing that dogs should be

on two point of contact harnesses.

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So they've got the range of

movement and their spine and

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their neck are in alignment.

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They shouldn't have their airways.

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Restricted and pressure

put on their trackers.

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And the OC inocular pressure exacerbated

with tools like slip leads, choke chains,

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or even just a flat collar and lead.

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Just the, the nutrition side, the

sleep side, making sure a dog's teeth

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are checked so they're not in pain.

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All of these knowledge dot dots,

we need to make sure that we are

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keeping our knowledge current and

building on those foundations so

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that we're able to communicate to

guardians without them feeling judged

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from an educational standpoint.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Brilliant.

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That leads us nicer to my next question,

but I just wanted to touch on, when

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you mentioned about imposter syndrome.

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It is, it is rife

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Jo Middleton: Rife.

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Hmm

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

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With like some of my mentees I

work with as well but also myself,

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like obviously going, coming from

a corporate background when I was.

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Actively practicing as a dog trainer,

I'd never felt imposter syndrome

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until I became a dog trainer in all my

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Jo Middleton: hmm.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: career.

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It was, it was ridiculous.

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And obviously when you are new into the

industry, it's a mindful, but yeah, and

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it's great that there's like places like.

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Canine principles and ICE

that you can get the correct

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ethical advice and the courses.

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But it, yeah, it was, it was really a bit

of a mindful when I first started out and

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like I said, didn't in experience imposter

syndrome until I became a dog trainer.

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But what would you say are the biggest

knowledge gaps that still exist even for

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new pet pros or even experienced ones?

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Jo?

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Jo Middleton: I think the nutrition side

of things, I is one that is constantly

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evolving and new research coming out.

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It is I.

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Yeah, it is.

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And it's an area that with the

International School of Canine Psychology,

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we've got a level three diploma.

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Our tutor on that is a

wonderful scientist who's.

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Absolutely fantastic.

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And we've got some cool stuff

planned to help support people

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in better understanding.

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How to make sure that your

dog's nutritional needs are met.

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What we find is that people

are scared to experiment.

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They'd rather trust the marketing

hype that I've talked about.

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Whereas what with the knowledge that

we're able to provide through that

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level three diploma we're, we're able

to make sure that you are well equipped

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to make sure that your client's dogs or

your own dogs have got the nutritional

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values that they need in their food.

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I think.

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For me to.

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Imagine that I'd always fed my

children McDonald's day in, day out.

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Other junk food brands are available, but

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Jo Middleton: I don't

wanna get in trouble.

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Yeah.

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But if I just fed them e numbers

or processed foods all the

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time not only does well yeah.

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The, the cognitive impact within

the, the brain doesn't have what it

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needs to function to its optimum.

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And the physical, as well.

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And it's no different with our

dogs if they're not having their

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nutritional needs met either, but

they have no control over that.

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We are the ones that

control what they're eating.

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They.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's the thing.

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Yeah.

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Jo Middleton: They can't self select.

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Which is one of the reasons I love

Sohar Cognos, but that's a whole

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different rabbit hole to go down.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It is.

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Yeah,

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it certainly

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Jo Middleton: It is.

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But yeah, I'd say nutrition is

probably the biggest gap that we see.

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And the one that always, sort of grieves

me is when I'm out and about and I see

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dogs literally hanging themselves or,

or strangle being strangled because

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they're not on walking equipment.

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That it is going to support

their balance, their body, and it

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

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Jo Middleton: putting that

pressure around their necks.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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The, the nutrition one, it's,

it is crazy 'cause it's such a

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controversial subject as well.

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And it's such a beast and like

you said, it's forever evolving.

368

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Jo Middleton: Mm.

369

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: and.

370

:

And a lot of what comes up

in this podcast is that, you

371

:

know, like the public as well.

372

:

Like you don't know what you don't know.

373

:

So until

374

:

Jo Middleton: Yeah.

375

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: try and

educate them, know, it's all about, it

376

:

comes back down to education all the time.

377

:

You know, the walking

equipment and the nutrition.

378

:

Jo Middleton: and not judging

and not criticizing guardians

379

:

who have got it wrong, or pet

professionals who have been misled.

380

:

I, I'd love to know some statistics.

381

:

I've no idea how we'd get them, but

I'd love to know some statistics around

382

:

how the, increase of reels and TikTok

videos has impacted the quick fix view

383

:

that we seem to have as a nation now.

384

:

Because the, what you see in a

60, 92nd reel is it is not real.

385

:

It is not real life.

386

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

It's smart.

387

:

That

388

:

Jo Middleton: Yeah.

389

:

Yeah.

390

:

The real's not real.

391

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, I

392

:

Jo Middleton: Yeah.

393

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

unfortunately we are in a, we are in

394

:

a space now, like we do want the quick

fixes and we, we are not prepared

395

:

to put in the work unfortunately.

396

:

And

397

:

Jo Middleton: Mm

398

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

it like on TV or TikTok and Yeah,

399

:

unfortunately people just are busy.

400

:

You know, we're

401

:

Jo Middleton: mm

402

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: and

we just, people just wanna just, yeah.

403

:

Quickly get the quick

fixes, unfortunately.

404

:

Jo Middleton: But then if

you flip that, oh, sorry.

405

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

no, you go my love.

406

:

Go on.

407

:

Jo Middleton: If you flip that and think

if I was fostering a child, a toddler that

408

:

had been through significant trauma and

they had no control, I was responsible

409

:

for providing them with the nutrition.

410

:

I was responsible for making sure

that they were properly clothed,

411

:

they were safe in the adult

world that they were living in.

412

:

I would not be expecting a quick fix or

some magic wand that was going to make

413

:

that child do, as it was told, conform

to whatever boundaries I put in place,

414

:

and I would definitely not be expecting

to put something on that child that would

415

:

electrocute it, nor would I be expecting

to put some sort of noose around its neck.

416

:

It's, it's when you think about it in

those terms, the dogs don't have choices.

417

:

It's up to us to create environments

in which they are able to make

418

:

choices safely so that they're feeling

empowered and they've got that agency

419

:

and they're able to feel self-worth

and grow their self-confidence and,

420

:

and build the bond with humans.

421

:

If we are constantly.

422

:

Coming from a place of do, as I say or

else you're going to get hurt, that's

423

:

not going for any free thinking being,

that's not going to set them up for

424

:

emotional safety or a feeling of success.

425

:

So I think it's really important from.

426

:

The education point of view that we

carry on planting the seeds and we carry

427

:

on making sure that we're being the

advocates for our dogs that we need to be.

428

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, definitely really big on

429

:

advocacy and being your dog superhero.

430

:

Thank you so much.

431

:

So talking,

432

:

Jo Middleton: I.

433

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

on to canine principles.

434

:

So canine Principles is known for

its ethical science-based content.

435

:

How do you go about making education

truly accessible and inclusive?

436

:

Jo?

437

:

Jo Middleton: Hmm.

438

:

I think what we really need to focus on is

making sure that we are student centric in

439

:

our approach with everything that we do.

440

:

We, I.

441

:

Have got off qual formal qualifications.

442

:

But we also have a massive

range of other courses as well.

443

:

So what we've introduced

this year is live courses.

444

:

So we've delivered the progressive dog

rehab specialist course live so that

445

:

it's more interactive so that people

are able to ask questions, chat, and

446

:

just really make sure that we are being

meeting all different learning styles.

447

:

So you, you've got the

workbooks, you've got the texts.

448

:

Stuff, the copy for people that

like to print things out, highlight,

449

:

scribble all over them like me.

450

:

But then you've also got the

post-it notes everywhere.

451

:

But then you've also got the video

and the interaction element as well.

452

:

So that's something new that

we've introduced this year.

453

:

We've also got an unlimited.

454

:

CPD Skill hub, so it's

a monthly membership.

455

:

You get a monthly guest webinar.

456

:

From a, a guest expert that comes in

and delivers amazing content, but you've

457

:

got the playback to watch as long as

you are a member of the CPD skills hub.

458

:

So you've got unlimited CPD, you

get a certificate for each course,

459

:

workshop or webinar that you

complete within the CPD skills hub,

460

:

but you have got access to that at

whatever pace or whatever learning.

461

:

Style that you need to to have met.

462

:

You can get that through

the CPD skill hub.

463

:

It's not rushed.

464

:

It's not pressured.

465

:

It's up to you and you can choose cherry

pick what you want or need at that time.

466

:

So for example, if you are.

467

:

Going to see a dog that's

displaying reactive behaviours.

468

:

You can search a CPD scar hub to find

something that's going to support

469

:

you in making sure, even if you're

just refreshing knowledge that

470

:

you've already gained or you want

a little confidence boost, you've

471

:

got those resources the, for you.

472

:

And then the final thing, I guess the

final way that we, we make sure that.

473

:

Everyone is really part of the

Canine principles community

474

:

is our student Facebook group.

475

:

So

476

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

477

:

Yeah.

478

:

Jo Middleton: it, if you're in

the group, there's really no

479

:

such thing as a silly question.

480

:

And I know we all feel sometimes,

oh no, it might be a silly question.

481

:

Just post anonymously if you think

it's gonna be, as you're gonna

482

:

get some backlash off it, or you

don't want to ask it as yourself.

483

:

Just post anonymously and get people's

feedback because the dog world.

484

:

Can be quite a cruel place

sometimes as a dog professional,

485

:

everyone is very passionate.

486

:

Everyone everyone you would like to

think would be in it for the best

487

:

interest of the dogs, but sometimes

things do get a bit heated and if you've.

488

:

Typed something out and deleted it again

and thought, no, I'm not gonna post that.

489

:

Then canine principles is definitely

the place for you to be learning

490

:

because we will support you in making

sure that you are reaching your full

491

:

potential, no matter whether you want

to follow the traditional behavioural

492

:

route and go up to your, your level

five, your level six, or whether you

493

:

want to niche into something more like.

494

:

Trauma reactivity, nutrition

anxiety, something like that.

495

:

Canine principles is

the place for you there.

496

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

brilliant.

497

:

That Facebook group, I think has

got about 60,000 members as well.

498

:

It's crazy.

499

:

So

500

:

Jo Middleton: has, yeah,

the page has, yeah.

501

:

We've got quite a big following.

502

:

Yeah.

503

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

of course.

504

:

Yeah.

505

:

Jo Middleton: Yeah.

506

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

study group and then the, the page.

507

:

Yeah.

508

:

Wow.

509

:

Jo Middleton: Yeah.

510

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

It's, it's brilliant.

511

:

So moving on to our next section,

which is all about dog parents.

512

:

So for any dog, parents guardians that

may be listening, hopefully they are.

513

:

Our first question is, do you think pet

guardians should engage in dog training,

514

:

behaviour education too, even if they're

not in inverted commas in the industry.

515

:

Jo Middleton: Oh my goodness.

516

:

Yes.

517

:

You are.

518

:

Oh, absolutely.

519

:

So.

520

:

I believe controversially to some that

training the human is more important

521

:

than training the dog because the dog

already really knows its behaviour.

522

:

What we are doing by training.

523

:

The human is making sure that

they're being consistent with how

524

:

they're showing up for their dog.

525

:

Making sure that the dog isn't

getting one message from one member

526

:

of the family and one member from

another one message from another.

527

:

Even just the body language.

528

:

Nevermind the verbal cues.

529

:

Cues.

530

:

So if you are a dog guardian,

you are with your dog 24 7.

531

:

Sort of day in, day out, apart from

if you have to pop out when you are

532

:

working with a behaviourist or a dog

walker comes in once a day or any

533

:

professional, they're with your dog

for a tiny little limited amount.

534

:

They're with you and your dog for

that tiny little limited amount.

535

:

So the more that you

can understand as a dog.

536

:

Guardian about your dog's

communication and their needs.

537

:

The less confusion they'll be, the

less conflict they'll be, the less

538

:

stress they'll be for you and your dog.

539

:

But most importantly, it will be that

trust bond that your building with your

540

:

dog, and that is such a beautiful thing.

541

:

I talk about paying into the emotional

bank account of our dogs and.

542

:

We need to pay into their

emotional bank accounts before

543

:

we can ask anything from them.

544

:

So before we can make a withdrawal

from a banking background,

545

:

it's quite appropriate for you.

546

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

love, love that analogy.

547

:

Jo Middleton: But we do, we, I

pinched that, that's not mine.

548

:

I dunno which book it was.

549

:

I read that that was in, but it was

but we, we, we need to make sure

550

:

that we are constantly paying into

their emotional bank account so that

551

:

we've got that trust bond with them.

552

:

'cause if you are just trying to ask

them for something and you've got no

553

:

bond, it, it makes things really tricky.

554

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

555

:

Yeah, definitely.

556

:

Absolutely

557

:

Jo Middleton: I.

558

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Thank you so much.

559

:

So what would you say is a common

myth about dog behaviour that you

560

:

wish everyone knew wasn't true?

561

:

Jo Middleton: Just the one,

562

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, wow.

563

:

Yeah, you could do as many as you

564

:

Jo Middleton: I think, I think the biggest

one is still dominance theory and that

565

:

dogs are trying to be the boss of us.

566

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I know.

567

:

Jo Middleton: they're not.

568

:

They're trying their hardest to

cope in a, a world that they don't

569

:

understand, a world that's confusing.

570

:

And if a dog's struggling, they

really need safety and understanding.

571

:

They don't need you to control them.

572

:

They're not trying to be the boss of you.

573

:

They're, they're struggling

and they're communicating with

574

:

you that they're struggling.

575

:

So I'd say that's probably the biggest

myth that I would love to see busted.

576

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: And

I think it's because like they see

577

:

a dog try to mount another dog and

oh, they're trying to dominate it.

578

:

But you know, we know, and hopefully

a lot of people do and will take away

579

:

from this, is that if a dog's over

aroused, like their bucket's fallen,

580

:

overflowing, they will mount another dog

581

:

Jo Middleton: Yeah.

582

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

trying to release that arousal.

583

:

But you know, like, again, going back

to, we dunno, what we don't know is that

584

:

people think, oh, he, he's mounting him

or how he's just trying to dominate the

585

:

dog and that's not what they're doing.

586

:

Jo Middleton: Mm.

587

:

Also I think, like things come

generational, Lee, don't they?

588

:

They come down generations and it's

what granddad said, what mom said,

589

:

and now what you've, you are saying.

590

:

But I was on a podcast last night with

Debbie Luckin from Kids Around Dogs

591

:

and she was saying, just remember that

your children are always watching.

592

:

They're always, they're like little.

593

:

Sponges kind of thing.

594

:

They're always watching.

595

:

Always listening.

596

:

And our dogs are too, and we

need to be really careful.

597

:

Mm

598

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's, that's, I love that.

599

:

That's really, that's really interesting.

600

:

What advice, Jay, would you give to

any pet parent dog guardian, feeling

601

:

overwhelmed or in, or unsure who to trust

when it comes to training advice online?

602

:

Jo Middleton: mm.

603

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.

604

:

Jo Middleton: I'd probably

say start trusting your gut.

605

:

If it doesn't sit right with

you, then trust your gut.

606

:

Look for professionals who really do.

607

:

Study with ethical organizations like

Canine Principals in the international

608

:

school for canine psychology.

609

:

Obviously I'm biased, but there

are others out there as well.

610

:

But we want to make sure that

we're using professionals who, and

611

:

creating almost a circle of care

of professionals for each dog.

612

:

So a vet, maybe a hydro, maybe a physio.

613

:

So you've got those.

614

:

Ethical professionals that you can call

on to support your dog when you need to.

615

:

Don't wait for something to crop up.

616

:

And then you are looking

for the professional.

617

:

Just have those professionals follow them.

618

:

Do your research before you need

them, and never be afraid to ask for a

619

:

second opinion, even if it's your vet.

620

:

We, we tend to trust our vets because

they are the professional, but.

621

:

Every vet has different

specialisms and every vet.

622

:

It's not possible for a

human to know everything.

623

:

So you are perfectly within your rights

to go to a different veterinary practice.

624

:

If something doesn't sit right

with you you're perfectly within

625

:

your rights to ring around.

626

:

And like for example, my little staffy

girl, Lola, had something neurological

627

:

going on and I wasn't comfortable

with the, I just, I just wanted the

628

:

peace of mind of a second opinion

because I didn't want to put to sleep.

629

:

And I wanted to make sure

it was the right choice.

630

:

So I rang around and asked.

631

:

Do you have a vet who specializes in this?

632

:

And three practices said

no, and one said yes.

633

:

So I went and saw that veterinary

professional at that practice, and

634

:

then I also rang our local veterinary

hospital and paid to have a Zoom call

635

:

with their specialist there as well.

636

:

But it just, you are, people don't

realize that you are able to do that and

637

:

you are able to, you, you are in charge.

638

:

You are the customer.

639

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

640

:

Jo Middleton: So you are able

to make those choices, and if it

641

:

doesn't sit right, trust your gut.

642

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

643

:

Yeah.

644

:

It is, it is like a mindful with all the

conflicting advice, but luckily we've

645

:

got like, you know, platforms like canine

principles, the ICP and I but yeah, I,

646

:

Jo Middleton: Oh,

647

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I've act, I've, God, am I lovely.

648

:

Jo Middleton: We've got the Ethical

Canine Professional Register on

649

:

the if you go to canine ethics.org,

650

:

look for professionals who

are listed on the It is live.

651

:

Yes.

652

:

Go on.

653

:

Go on canine ethics.org

654

:

and click on register and you'll see.

655

:

But you'll be able to find one near you.

656

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, yeah, I'm on that.

657

:

I'll go and check.

658

:

I'll go and check

659

:

Jo Middleton: Yay.

660

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: as well.

661

:

Yeah.

662

:

Brilliant.

663

:

And yeah, I was gonna say, I got

a second opinion with my dog, LIO.

664

:

I talk about a lot on it 'cause

he's got sa and chronic back pain.

665

:

But we did, we had a referral and

we went to one specialist hospital,

666

:

but then I went to another one.

667

:

It's just for that

668

:

Jo Middleton: Mm-hmm.

669

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

peace of mind,

670

:

Jo Middleton: Yeah.

671

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

So moving on to our next section,

672

:

which is all about how us pet

pros can keep growing, Jo.

673

:

So for dog walkers like myself, pet

sitters, groomers, trainers, tuning

674

:

in, where do they start if they

want to level up their knowledge?

675

:

Jo Middleton: I'd go over to the

ISCP International School for

676

:

canine psychology, the iscp.com

677

:

and grab the free course on

canine bite-sized communication.

678

:

I think that's a brilliant place to start.

679

:

We need to understand dog's,

body languages and you should

680

:

also always have a current canine

first aid certificate as well.

681

:

So if you go over, yeah, really important.

682

:

If you go over to canine principles.com,

683

:

you can get your first aid

certificate over there.

684

:

But it's important that you

keep it current because, things

685

:

change, guidance changes,

686

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: do.

687

:

Jo Middleton: And best practice changes.

688

:

And also to maybe think about exploring

more trauma-informed approaches.

689

:

Maybe look at your bite-sized

CPD, the CPD skill hub.

690

:

I know like it's not about promoting,

but I'm just thinking what we've

691

:

got in our armory that could help.

692

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: so good.

693

:

Jo Middleton: There's, there's just

so much sort of education stuff

694

:

that you could be doing, but I'd

say the body language, that free

695

:

free course with the ISCP and the

first aid would be the essentials.

696

:

But also to continue growing just.

697

:

I guess remember that when you are

feeling those, that mind monkey

698

:

chatter of I'm not good enough.

699

:

Who am I to do that?

700

:

Or that sort of stuff that your brain

tells you just to remember that that voice

701

:

is, it's actually a sign that you care.

702

:

And it's because you care that you

are feeling that imposter syndrome.

703

:

So find your crowd, find find your people.

704

:

We've got amazing communities

that you can join.

705

:

Find them because.

706

:

They will be your sanity.

707

:

In times when, when you are really

doubting yourself, that community, that

708

:

mentorship it is just absolutely second

to none because it can be quite a lonely

709

:

road sometimes out there in the dog world.

710

:

I,

711

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

712

:

And I think, like you said, as dog, as

pet professionals, we do care a lot.

713

:

That's

714

:

Jo Middleton: hmm.

715

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

we do what we do, but we can then

716

:

suffer from like compassion fatigue.

717

:

And it's important to get

around people that get it.

718

:

Like you say,

719

:

Jo Middleton: Yeah.

720

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

your your gang, find your community.

721

:

So what would be the advice to someone

who does feel a bit stuck or like an

722

:

imposter in their pet care career?

723

:

Jo Middleton: Ooh.

724

:

Okay.

725

:

So back in 2000 and.

726

:

Seven.

727

:

I fled an abusive relationship,

moved across to a different part of

728

:

the country and was homeless with

two children under the age of six.

729

:

I had to do an awful lot of work on my

mindset and an awful lot of rebuilding.

730

:

Everything.

731

:

And I read a book called Change Your

Life in Seven Days by Paul McKenna.

732

:

And you read a chapter a

day for the seven days.

733

:

And I'm not saying in that seven days,

ma magically my life transformed.

734

:

But I swear that book was.

735

:

Absolutely pivotal for me.

736

:

It comes with a hypnosis that

you can access now on YouTube.

737

:

It's a 30 minute hypnosis you

listen to morning and night.

738

:

And yeah, I, I'd say listen to that,

read that book and practice some

739

:

of the techniques that he teaches

you and yeah, a game changer.

740

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

741

:

Wow.

742

:

Thank you.

743

:

Brilliant.

744

:

And how we've already mentioned this a

little bit, but how important is community

745

:

and mentorship in learning in your view?

746

:

Jo Middleton: Oh, it is just a

lot of our students come to us.

747

:

In sort of as mature students.

748

:

So maybe they've been out of education

for many years or maybe they have got

749

:

NeuroD diversities that weren't recognized

in the traditional educational system.

750

:

What we've got with our community,

it brings perspective, it brings

751

:

encouragement, it brings the motivation.

752

:

It can give you the accountability.

753

:

You've got your tutor that you can

reach out to whenever you you want

754

:

to, but having that community of your

peers and just to say things like, like

755

:

I'm writing a book at the moment, I.

756

:

I'm in the canine principles has got

a writer's course, gerdon, who you've

757

:

had on the podcast, heads that up.

758

:

And just to be in the, the writer's

group that we've got, and for me

759

:

to be able to say, oh, I haven't

written anything this week.

760

:

And someone to say something like.

761

:

Crack on then, which is,

762

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

crack the whip.

763

:

Jo Middleton: yeah.

764

:

Or, or j

765

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

they, I thought you were gonna say, oh.

766

:

They were like, oh, it's all right.

767

:

Don't worry.

768

:

But

769

:

Jo Middleton: no trot on.

770

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: on.

771

:

Jo Middleton: But just to have some

accountability or, or for someone to

772

:

say, don't worry, I haven't either.

773

:

And, and like say she'll

be accountability buddy.

774

:

Or you know, just to have that sort of.

775

:

Ongoing support from people

who are walking the same path.

776

:

If you, as you or have walked

that path is just super cool.

777

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

778

:

So you say that writing,

that writing circle is part

779

:

of canine principles, is it?

780

:

Jo Middleton: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

781

:

So we've got the,

782

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

All right.

783

:

Jo Middleton: Yeah and we've got a

writer's retreat coming up in October

784

:

as well, which is gonna be super cool.

785

:

Yeah.

786

:

Jay and I are leading it 'cause we're

both both published authors darling.

787

:

So,

788

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yes you are.

789

:

Yes.

790

:

Jo Middleton: yeah.

791

:

So it's gonna be super cool.

792

:

Hope you can come.

793

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

794

:

Well listen out for more about that.

795

:

Okay.

796

:

So just moving on to our next section.

797

:

And then we're, we've not,

well we'll be wrapping up soon.

798

:

We've literally sailed through this one.

799

:

So values led learning, so the

IICE ICE and the ISCP are known

800

:

for their ethical framework.

801

:

are values like consent,

compassion, and individuality?

802

:

That's a big one at the core

of the way you teach Jo.

803

:

Jo Middleton: Dogs are sentient beings.

804

:

They're not robots.

805

:

They're, they feel they have.

806

:

Basic needs, but they have

layers on top of that.

807

:

So they deserve autonomy.

808

:

They deserve respect.

809

:

They deserve to be heard

when they're saying no.

810

:

And professionals deserve training.

811

:

That doesn't put them against the.

812

:

Animals that they love

and they want to help.

813

:

So the, I guess the values, they're

not sort of extra icing on the cake.

814

:

They're really the foundation of

truly ethical work that we do.

815

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

816

:

Jo Middleton: I.

817

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, yeah.

818

:

Brilliant.

819

:

Thank you.

820

:

So how can education be part

of creating a more ethical and

821

:

emotionally safer pet industry?

822

:

Jo, I.

823

:

Jo Middleton: Ooh, GLI me.

824

:

How can education be part

825

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: part

826

:

Jo Middleton: sorry.

827

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No, no.

828

:

That's cool.

829

:

How can education be part of

creating a more ethical and

830

:

emotionally safer pet industry?

831

:

Jo Middleton: I guess

it's a cultural shift.

832

:

And we want it to become the norm.

833

:

It should be the norm and it.

834

:

When we teach ethically,

we are changing culture.

835

:

We are showing up and coming.

836

:

Dog professionals.

837

:

That control isn't power.

838

:

The, the compassion

element is the true power.

839

:

And we are really sort of.

840

:

Picking apart and dismantling the

outdated, harmful former norms, if you

841

:

like, that were the Barbara Woodhouse

days, the CAEs and Lamb sort of.

842

:

And, and there are many, sadly still out

there who promote aversive methods, but

843

:

education is really that cultural shift

and forming a more, a more compassionate

844

:

core of dog professionals that is

the new normal, as opposed to the dog

845

:

professionals who maybe are still out

there supporting the use of various tools

846

:

or, or methods that harm a dog, not just

physically, but emotionally as well.

847

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

848

:

Yeah.

849

:

It's a shame that that's still

going on, but we just need to keep

850

:

flow flying that ethical flag.

851

:

So great.

852

:

Jo Middleton: Yeah.

853

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: We're

gonna start wrapping up this episode.

854

:

It's been packed full of so

much information I've absolutely

855

:

loved you know speaking with you.

856

:

So moving on to our final section,

which is all about looking ahead.

857

:

what's next for you, Jo Canine principles.

858

:

ICE and the ISCP.

859

:

exciting

860

:

Jo Middleton: all the secrets.

861

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Any, any exciting projects or

862

:

future hopes that you can share?

863

:

Any additional exciting projects

or future hopes or anything you

864

:

Jo Middleton: Absolutely.

865

:

Absolutely.

866

:

Yes, definitely.

867

:

So the Progressive Dog Rehab Specialist

course that we delivered live a few

868

:

weeks ago is going through the CPD

accreditation process, so that'll

869

:

be formally accredited and rolled

out as a formal CPD accreditation

870

:

with canine principles, which is.

871

:

Mega exciting.

872

:

And we've also got our writer's

retreat as well coming up in October,

873

:

which is really, really cool.

874

:

So that's going to be co-presented

by Jay Gerin and I, save the

875

:

date, 13th of June, 2026.

876

:

Harborough University, the

Canine Principles conference.

877

:

Which yeah.

878

:

Oh yeah, that's, hmm.

879

:

That I went to.

880

:

Oh, so exciting.

881

:

The lineup.

882

:

But.

883

:

What was really funny was we

went to, to view the venue.

884

:

I went with my husband

and I was like, I'm sold.

885

:

I need to study here.

886

:

I need, and he's like, oh, brilliant.

887

:

Yeah, yeah, you do that.

888

:

And I, hold on.

889

:

You do realize that I won't be

at home like Monday to Friday.

890

:

He's like, yeah, you go.

891

:

I, I'm not quite sure how to take that.

892

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Where, where is it?

893

:

Well, you know, he's, he's

obviously wants to support you.

894

:

Where is it?

895

:

Not heard?

896

:

Tell,

897

:

Jo Middleton: Harre.

898

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I've not heard of it before.

899

:

Har.

900

:

Jo Middleton: Oh, it's,

yeah, Gloucestershire.

901

:

Really, really cool place.

902

:

Yeah, set.

903

:

It's set in hundreds of acres

of rolling countryside and just

904

:

the most amazing learning space.

905

:

So that's the 13th of June next year.

906

:

And.

907

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's exciting.

908

:

Jo Middleton: It is, there's so

much exciting stuff going on.

909

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

with that.

910

:

You know, I do.

911

:

Jo Middleton: Ah, honestly, it, oh yeah.

912

:

See, but you might wanna get involved

with some of the other stuff as well.

913

:

So,

914

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

well, I'll get involved with it.

915

:

Oh, you know me.

916

:

Jo Middleton: Yeah.

917

:

Love it.

918

:

The ISEP, we've got the big dog psych

conference, which is a virtual one

919

:

coming up summit rather than conference.

920

:

Yeah, that one's going to be

towards the end of this year.

921

:

So keep your ears and eyes

peeled for more info on that one.

922

:

Some of the international, scientists,

top behaviourist trainers that

923

:

we've got jumping in on that are

like mind blowing starstruck.

924

:

So that's really exciting.

925

:

With the ISEP as well.

926

:

We are launching a new course over

the next few weeks actually which is

927

:

a level three mental health first aid

course for people working in dog rescue.

928

:

We, we spoke about this before, didn't we?

929

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

930

:

Jo Middleton: Yeah.

931

:

Yeah.

932

:

So what I would love to see is for

every rescue to have a dedicated mental

933

:

health first aider within their team.

934

:

And I know from my experience in

rescue over the past 25 odd years that.

935

:

The pressures that, that, the time,

the resource pressures, et cetera,

936

:

on rescues, this almost seems like

an extra thing to add to that.

937

:

However,

938

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: However.

939

:

Jo Middleton: the emotional toll for

someone in rescue who gets into it

940

:

because they love the animals and

they love dogs and they want to make

941

:

a difference, and then they're having

to turn dogs away because there is.

942

:

Just no room for them.

943

:

And they're feeling that they're

sentencing that dog to death because

944

:

there is no room for that dog.

945

:

That mental toll, it, it,

I can't even describe.

946

:

I did a podcast with, the, the raw

pet medics A couple of months ago,

947

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yes, yes.

948

:

Jo Middleton: I was speaking

about this kind of thing.

949

:

By the end of that week I had I think

five dogs that had been basically, it

950

:

had been shifted onto my my plate, if you

like, that if I didn't find somewhere for

951

:

these dogs to go, they'd be put to sleep.

952

:

And for that mental strain

is, is just horrific.

953

:

So.

954

:

That is something that we're launching

through the ISCP and we are going to be

955

:

working with rescues worldwide to roll

that out to see if we can really make

956

:

an impact to support, better support the

mental health of people working in rescue.

957

:

And that leads me nicely onto what

we've got coming with the International

958

:

Institute for Canine Ethics.

959

:

There's a couple of things, a couple

of things with the International

960

:

Institute for Canine Ethics.

961

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

just rebranded as

962

:

Jo Middleton: Oh,

963

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: You

964

:

Jo Middleton: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

965

:

The,

966

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

967

:

Love it.

968

:

Jo Middleton: Yes.

969

:

So the International Institute for

Canine Ethics is all about supporting dog

970

:

professionals in being the most ethical

version of themselves that they can be.

971

:

So no matter how you come into

contact with dogs during your role,

972

:

I supports you with ongoing learning,

ongoing CPD and the support network

973

:

that we all need in the dog world.

974

:

The traditional kind of rule when a

dog is rehomed is called the 3, 3 3.

975

:

The 3, 3, 3, 3 days, three weeks.

976

:

Three months is a rigid timeline of

things that you should be able to

977

:

expect from that dog or for the dog

to stages for the dog to have gone

978

:

through by the three month period.

979

:

With the aim to reduce bounce backs

into rescue really, and for guardians

980

:

to have a better understanding

of the dog that they've re-homed.

981

:

However, you and I both know that

dogs can't stick to a rigid timeline.

982

:

They don't know that by three days

they should be doing this or by three

983

:

weeks they should be doing that.

984

:

So ICE is, has got a

new, a, a new 3, 3, 3.

985

:

We, we want to keep the.

986

:

Guidance, the stages for guardians

to understand so that they're able

987

:

to see what stage their dog's at.

988

:

But we don't want a rigid

timeline because the last stage

989

:

is ongoing for the dog's life.

990

:

It's not gonna happen by three months.

991

:

It's a constant paying into

that emotional bank account.

992

:

So ICE is just launching the.

993

:

Three stages of adjustment.

994

:

You'll be able to download the overview

of the three stages of adjustment as

995

:

a free resource on the ICE website.

996

:

It's literally going live this week.

997

:

It's all been drafted and

we've actually got some press.

998

:

We, we are in some pretty

big press about it as well.

999

:

But the what we're, we're doing is

working with a, a wonderful team to roll

:

00:51:48,387 --> 00:51:50,877

that out across rescues across the uk.

:

00:51:51,207 --> 00:51:55,257

Buddy it up with a mental health

first aid course from the ISCP.

:

00:51:55,827 --> 00:52:02,817

And provide the education to guardians

who are adopting dogs and implementing

:

00:52:02,817 --> 00:52:08,457

the three stages of adjustment with

the ongoing education that they can tap

:

00:52:08,457 --> 00:52:13,317

into as and when they need it, when they

see a stage or an element of a stage.

:

00:52:13,707 --> 00:52:17,817

So that's super exciting and hopefully

going to make a a massive difference.

:

00:52:19,057 --> 00:52:23,287

And then the other thing with ICE that

we are working on for prep professionals

:

00:52:23,317 --> 00:52:30,717

is a fabulous, amazing support team

of everything that you need to grow

:

00:52:31,047 --> 00:52:36,387

and develop and find your voice to

speak out your confidence, everything

:

00:52:36,387 --> 00:52:41,017

that you need from your business

strategy to your accreditation pathway,

:

00:52:41,017 --> 00:52:44,057

to getting on the A BTC pathway.

:

00:52:44,057 --> 00:52:48,647

Every, even, even your copywriting

for your social media platforms or

:

00:52:48,647 --> 00:52:51,047

your blog posts, or if you go out.

:

00:52:51,407 --> 00:52:56,747

You've got a client with a case study

that you're not quite sure how to act

:

00:52:56,807 --> 00:53:01,957

or how, what to say, or you, you can't

find the words we are providing something

:

00:53:01,957 --> 00:53:04,507

that is completely end to end for you.

:

00:53:04,507 --> 00:53:07,297

That's in beta testing mode at the moment.

:

00:53:09,747 --> 00:53:10,487

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

So exciting.

:

00:53:11,227 --> 00:53:13,657

Jo Middleton: I know and there's

more, but I can't tell you.

:

00:53:14,907 --> 00:53:15,882

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's okay.

:

00:53:15,942 --> 00:53:16,992

That's fine.

:

00:53:16,992 --> 00:53:17,592

I'm loving it.

:

00:53:17,592 --> 00:53:21,222

We've got lays of lots to work

with there, but no exciting times.

:

00:53:21,222 --> 00:53:26,652

So Jo, if you could give one

message to every person working with

:

00:53:26,652 --> 00:53:28,842

dogs right now, what would it be?

:

00:53:31,982 --> 00:53:32,822

Jo Middleton: Ooh.

:

00:53:32,852 --> 00:53:39,902

I think don't confuse being

compassionate with being weak.

:

00:53:41,057 --> 00:53:45,977

Don't, don't let anyone ever

make you feel that by being

:

00:53:45,977 --> 00:53:49,007

compassionate, you are being weak.

:

00:53:49,637 --> 00:53:55,997

Doing right by the dogs, even

when it's hard, is the strongest

:

00:53:55,997 --> 00:53:57,407

thing really, that you can do.

:

00:53:57,407 --> 00:54:03,617

So don't let other people or,

or don't ever let yourself talk.

:

00:54:04,077 --> 00:54:09,027

And that mind monkey chatter

confuse compassion with weakness.

:

00:54:09,627 --> 00:54:10,767

Would be my message.

:

00:54:10,912 --> 00:54:11,192

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant.

:

00:54:12,007 --> 00:54:12,337

Brilliant.

:

00:54:12,337 --> 00:54:12,712

I love that.

:

00:54:13,182 --> 00:54:14,947

Jo, thank you so much.

:

00:54:14,947 --> 00:54:18,637

Literally, this episode's been

jampacked with so much information.

:

00:54:18,637 --> 00:54:19,447

I've loved it.

:

00:54:19,757 --> 00:54:23,177

Finally, how can people get in touch with

you, Jo, if they wanna find out more?

:

00:54:24,467 --> 00:54:25,997

Jo Middleton: Just pop a message over.

:

00:54:25,997 --> 00:54:33,557

Just head over to your email and

type in jojo@kineprinciples.com.

:

00:54:35,277 --> 00:54:35,877

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant.

:

00:54:35,967 --> 00:54:37,047

Thank you so much.

:

00:54:37,347 --> 00:54:43,677

Jerry Middleton, thank you for joining me

on The Yappy Hour, powered by Yappy today.

:

00:54:44,007 --> 00:54:44,938

Absolutely loved it.

:

00:54:45,087 --> 00:54:48,357

We will get you back in the future

'cause I feel we've just scratched your,

:

00:54:48,687 --> 00:54:51,027

there's lots more we can talk about.

:

00:54:51,307 --> 00:54:53,962

Thank you for your time and

we will see you again soon.

:

00:54:55,127 --> 00:54:56,472

Jo Middleton: Thank you for having me.

:

00:54:57,682 --> 00:54:57,832

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: You are

:

00:55:03,208 --> 00:55:03,478

Wow.

:

00:55:03,478 --> 00:55:06,598

That was a truly

enlightening conversation.

:

00:55:06,878 --> 00:55:12,958

Jo's passion for education, ethics

and empowerment absolutely shines

:

00:55:12,958 --> 00:55:17,188

through, and it's clear that learning

isn't just about ticking boxes.

:

00:55:17,428 --> 00:55:20,968

It's about doing better

for dogs and ourselves.

:

00:55:21,388 --> 00:55:24,628

Here are a few golden

nuggets from today's chat.

:

00:55:25,138 --> 00:55:25,888

Number one.

:

00:55:26,293 --> 00:55:31,453

Learning is a journey, not a

destination, especially in a field as

:

00:55:31,453 --> 00:55:34,393

emotional and evolving as pet care.

:

00:55:34,963 --> 00:55:40,813

Number two, accessible ethical education

empowers everyone from seasoned

:

00:55:40,813 --> 00:55:43,513

pet pros to brand new pet parents.

:

00:55:43,873 --> 00:55:47,473

Number three, values

should guide education.

:

00:55:47,743 --> 00:55:50,923

Science matters, but so does compassion.

:

00:55:51,613 --> 00:55:54,973

Number four, imposter syndrome is normal.

:

00:55:55,273 --> 00:55:59,773

Community support and small

steps forward are key.

:

00:56:00,373 --> 00:56:05,803

Number five, dog guardians can

benefit hugely from ongoing learning

:

00:56:05,803 --> 00:56:10,248

too because understanding your

dog is the ultimate relationship.

:

00:56:10,448 --> 00:56:10,928

Goal.

:

00:56:11,528 --> 00:56:16,748

Thank you so much, uh, to Jo for sharing

your heart and wisdom with us today.

:

00:56:17,108 --> 00:56:21,408

We'll link all of Jo's incredible

platforms and resources in the

:

00:56:21,408 --> 00:56:27,288

show notes, including canine

principles, the ISCP and ice.

:

00:56:27,738 --> 00:56:32,868

Until next time, keep learning,

keep growing, and give

:

00:56:32,868 --> 00:56:34,578

your dog a cuddle from me.

:

00:56:35,328 --> 00:56:39,188

This has been the Yappy

Hour powered by Yappily

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