Welcome to The Yappy Hour powered by Yappily!
In this episode, host Nathan Dunleavy talks with Jo Middleton — Director of Studies at Canine Principles, Principal at the ISCP (International School for Canine Psychology), and MD at the International Institute for Canine Ethics (ICE) — about making dog training ethical, accessible, and effective for real life.
⏱️ Chapters
00:00 Intro: Why education changes everything
02:08 Jo’s journey: rescue roots, ethics, and study leadership
08:24 Consent-based handling & reading “no” in canine body language
14:40 Confidence vs. competence: imposter syndrome in pet pros
18:55 Biggest gaps: nutrition, first aid, equipment, sleep, pain
25:30 Guardians: how to find ethical help you can trust
31:10 Equipment that protects bodies (two-point harnesses)
35:42 Quick-fix culture vs. real behaviour change
40:05 Rehoming support: beyond the rigid “3-3-3” timeline
45:18 Student-friendly learning: CPD hubs, live courses, tutors
50:12 Community & mentorship: finding your voice
54:10 What’s next: CPD accreditation, writer’s retreat, conferences
58:20 Final message: compassion ≠ weakness — it’s strength
Key topics
Ethical dog training & consent-based handling
Canine body language and advocacy at home
Practical CPD routes for trainers, walkers, groomers, vets/vet nurses
Nutrition, pain, sleep, and welfare basics that change behaviour
Safer walking equipment vs. collars/chains/slip leads
Rehoming support that adapts to the individual dog
Confidence & mindset for ethical pet professionals
📚 Resources mentioned
Canine Principles — ethical courses, CPD, first aid
ISCP — canine psychology diplomas; free bite-sized communication course
International Institute for Canine Ethics (ICE) — professional membership, Ethical Canine Professional Register, Three Stages of Adjustment resource
🙌 If this helped you, please like, subscribe, and comment with your biggest takeaway. Share this with a dog guardian or pet pro who’d love ethical, science-based guidance.
🐾 The Yappy Hour is powered by Yappily — helping dog lovers and pet professionals learn, grow, and support happier dogs.
Welcome to another episode of The
Yappy Hour, powered by Yappily.
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:I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, and
today I'm joined by the truly inspiring
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:Jo Middleton, director of Studies
at Canine Principles Principal at
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:the ISCP and Managing Director at.
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:The IICE or ICE and all round trailblazer
when it comes to education and ethics
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:in the dog world, whether you are a pet
guardian wanting to understand your dog
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:better, or a dog professional looking
to grow your skills, Jo's work has
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:likely touched your journey in some way.
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:We are diving into how education
empowers dog praise, why
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:continued learning matters, and
how ethical accessible training.
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:Benefits dogs.
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:They're humans and the entire industry.
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:So grab a cup of tea, settle
in, and let's get started.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Welcome back to The Yappy
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:Hour, powered by Yappily.
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:I'm your host, Nathan D.
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:Levy, and I'm so excited to bring you
another episode of The Yappy Hour.
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:Today.
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:Joining me is Jo Middleton.
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:Welcome to the Yappy
Jo, how are you doing,
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:Jo Middleton: Hi, Nathan.
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:I'm all good.
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:Thank you.
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:Really excited to be here.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Great.
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:Thanks for joining us.
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:One thing I forgot to say before
we hit record is that it does come
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:out of a little message saying that
the quality isn't very good, but
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:you don't have to worry about that.
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:'cause when it's all played back and
edited, it's all absolutely fine.
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:So yeah, so we've had a few
internet problems and bits and
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:pieces and that, but then we've.
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:You know, we are pros.
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:We can, we can do this.
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:So Jo, I'm so excited to chat
with you today and to learn
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:more about you and your journey.
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:But for anyone who doesn't know you yet,
could you give us the whirlwind Jo intro.
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:So here you are, what you do,
and what keeps you so passionate
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:about canine education.
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:Jo Middleton: So my name's Jamie
Tilton and I head up the International
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:Institute for Canine Ethics, the
International School for Canine
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:Psychology and Canine Principles.
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:I've.
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:Been in the doggy world
a very, very long time.
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:Actually quarter of a century.
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:I'd say quarter of a century.
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:More in the, ethical doggy world.
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:Whereas before that I grew up
around the show ring and it
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:was very much aversive methods.
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:It was back in the Barbara Woodhouse days.
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:Yeah.
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:And as a child, you going to ring craft
classes and obedience classes, it was
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:not at all in line with my values.
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:So.
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:Got involved in the rescue world back
kind of 99, millennium and then retrained.
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:I was told never to work with
children never to work with children.
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:Never to work with dogs because
I'd never make any money.
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:So I had to get a proper job as a child.
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:That's what I was told.
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:So I went down the corporate route.
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:I'm bilingual French English.
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:Yeah, it is.
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:It set, sets you up with some skills,
doesn't it, to that you can bring forward.
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:Yeah, but I'm bilingual French English
was brought up bilingually and so I
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:worked in Paris for quite a while and,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: wow.
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:Jo Middleton: Did lots of different
bits and bobs but the dogs are
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:always where my heart's been.
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:Been around the education world for for
quite a while and been self-employed.
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:Set up my first business in 2000 when
I was pregnant with my eldest daughter.
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:Yeah, nothing better to do.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
I'm pregnant.
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:I'll just set up a business.
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:Jo Middleton: Why not?
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:It was wonderful.
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:I had lots of support.
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:Yeah, I did.
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:Had lots of support from the Prince's
trust and the Chamber of Commerce.
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:A really cool, cool journey.
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:I.
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:Yeah.
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:So I guess what keeps me passionate
is my work in rescue and that you
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:see things that you can't unsee.
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:And it's it's not an area that
in all the years that I've, I've
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:worked in rescue from kind of kennel
assessments, microchipping, transport
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:home checks through to trustee level.
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:I don't see any change over all
the years that I've been involved.
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:So that's a massive area that
keeps the fire burning in my
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:belly to keep educating really.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Brilliant.
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:Oh great.
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:I'd love, I learned some things that
I didn't know about, 'cause obviously
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:we haven't known each other that
long, but in the last year or so.
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:But it's always great getting,
I love a bit of history and
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:I feel like all these great
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:Jo Middleton: I'm not that old Nathan.
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:A bit history.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: no.
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:You know what I mean?
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:Like, I love what I mean is that I
love people that have got a story,
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:Jo Middleton: Yeah.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
you know, a story behind them.
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:Like, and I was just about to say
that, you know, I speak to all these
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:great people that have been in the
industry for a little bit longer than me
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:because I've only, I feel like a baby.
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:I've only been in the
industry seven years.
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:And then I speak to all you great people
and you've been, you know, you've been
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:in the industry for a lot longer and it's
just so great just to hear, you know,
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:your stories rather than your histories.
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:As to why you
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:Jo Middleton: the fossil out.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
as to why you fell into it maybe,
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:but some similarities there.
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:'cause I came from a corporate
background in banking, corporate
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:business banking, and I, I use that now
in my mentoring and stuff, so perfect.
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:Thank you so much for
your whirlwind intro.
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:So we're gonna move on
to our next question.
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:So I love this 'cause you had not.
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:You head up, not only one,
but multiple organizations.
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:We've got canine principles
the ISCP and is O-I-I-C-E.
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:What is your driving force
behind these platforms, Jo?
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:Jo Middleton: I guess
each platform exists to
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:fill a gap where I wish I'd had additional
support myself going becoming a.
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:Sort of, well, we never
stop learning, do we?
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:It's every day's a school day
and every single individual dog,
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:teachers us something different.
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:But canine principles is all
about the accessible online
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:ethical learning platform.
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:Whether you are a dog guardian and you've
got a dog that maybe is pulling on the
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:lead and you want some guidance around
how to help stop that, but without.
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:Hurting the dog emotionally or
physically, or whether you are a dog
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:professional and you're looking for
a formal off quail qualification.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm
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:Jo Middleton: Canine principle
is kind of a one stop shop for
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:everything, whereas the international
school for canine Psychology.
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:I mean, the ISCP and I have
known each other since birth
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:since the ICPs birth, not mine.
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:Because I know, I know Lisa Tenson
Dolma, the founder and I, I, she
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:lived, she's not far away from me.
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:And so,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh
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:Jo Middleton: we, we've been around
each other for, for a long time.
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:The ICP and I when, when she founded it.
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:So the ISEP is more about the
psychology side of things.
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:Yes, we've got a lot of behaviour
stuff and we really focus on making
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:sure that everything is done where
there's a tutor accessible one-to-one.
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:As well as the online learning, but
it's really a heart-centered diploma
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:school for professionals who really
want to get on the same geek level
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:because we're all geeks.
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:And and then the International Institute
for Canine Ethics, which obviously
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:you are hosting some of our member
meetings as well, which is fabulous.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Jo Middleton: The, the International
Institute for Canine Ethics, it
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:really sort of bridges the emotional
and the ethical side of care.
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:So it's for every.
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:Everyone who comes into contact with
dogs as part of their day-to-day role.
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:So whether you are a receptionist at
a veterinary practice, whether you are
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:a canine hydro, whether you're a vet
nurse, whether you are a vet, whether
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:you are a dog walker, borderer, groomer,
behaviourist, trainer, if you come
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:into dog contact with dogs as part of
your day-to-day role, then you need
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:to understand consent based handling.
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:You need to understand how to
recognize the signs when a dog's
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:saying no and what alternatives.
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:Can be done around that.
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:So the International Institute
for Canine Ethics is an.
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:A professional membership organization
that is really, really integral.
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:And we've just launched our Ethical
Canine Professional Register.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.
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:Jo Middleton: assessing organization.
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:I.
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:For the A BTC, so we can support people
in going down that pathway as well.
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:And there are so many exciting things
in the pipeline for the members at ice,
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:which I'm not able to disclose just yet,
but there are lots of exciting things.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
I might have to tap you up
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:for that at the end as well.
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:That's one of my questions, but No, you
can, you can, you can tell us what you
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:can, but no, I love being part of ice.
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:Love you know, my mentoring.
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:Business is obviously a, a proud
partner and I obviously help
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:Jo Middleton: Yep.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
the groups on Facebook and
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:host some of the meetings.
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:But no, I love everything it stands for.
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:And I liked
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:Jo Middleton: Hmm.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
as well, is that we're continually
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:learning from our own dogs, aren't we?
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:And the dogs we
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:Jo Middleton: Yeah
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: but as.
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:canine professionals, I dunno
about you, but I used to always
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:be a bit of a coarse junkie.
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:We're always learning, all
of us are always learning.
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:We're always striving to be the best
version of ourself for caregivers
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:and their, you know, their pets.
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:And yeah, I used to get like, you know,
that our whole shiny new course syndrome
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:and then had to sort of stop myself
recently and decide, well, I need to
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:actually finish some of these courses.
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:Jo Middleton: I gotta catch up on myself.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:But as
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:Jo Middleton: Hmm.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
we are continually investing in
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:our own CPD, our own education.
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:And that's great that we've got sort of
platforms and organizations like Canine
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:Principles and ICE to help with that.
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:So thank you so much for telling
us a bit more around those.
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:And moving on to our next section,
which leads in nicely as to why
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:education changes everything.
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:Jo, my first question is, why is education
such a game changer in the dog world?
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:Especially for us pet pros.
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:Jo Middleton: It is quite a layered
response to that question, I guess,
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:because one is, I don't know if you've
ever watched a film and then watched it
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:a second time and seen things that you
didn't see the first time or heard things
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:that you didn't hear the first time It.
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:It's really the same with
education, so you can hear the same.
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:Messaging, you can hear the same learn
the same thing multiple times, but you'll
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:take what you need from it at that time
and, and what's relevant to you, the dogs
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:that you are around at that time, and
where your mindset is at at that time.
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:One of the wonderful things with
the International Institute.
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:Institute for canine ethics is that we
are able to help professionals to have the
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:support to springboard their businesses
from and really develop and grow.
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:And that's a, a really key part because
what we see so often with ethical dog
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:professionals and canine professionals
who strive to be the best versions
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:of themselves that they can because
they genuinely do deeply care about.
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:The dogs that they're working with
and the service that they're providing
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:is we see massive imposter syndrome.
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:When you're saying about
being a coarse junkie.
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:Oh my gosh, yeah, absolutely.
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:Course junkie number one over here.
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:But what we can't do is let
let our learning go sort of.
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:We play it down a lot and what we need
to do is have a look at even some of the
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:major dog food brands that aren't in line
with our values and maybe don't provide
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:the nutritious value that they should.
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:That's a great example.
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:They've got the big marketing budgets.
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:And their confidence is
trumping the competence of the
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:food that they're providing.
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:And we see that sometimes in the dog
world where maybe someone who isn't
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:practicing ethically or isn't setting
the dogs up for emotional safety.
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:With the methods that they're using.
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:They may have the confidence, but they
haven't done the progression pathway.
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:They haven't done the
learning, the education.
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:They don't continue to strive to be the
best version of themselves that they can
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:be and have that competence element I.
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:But because they're confident and
they're visible it's it's maybe
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:seen that they are the go-to expert.
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:So, because so many dog professionals
do really care deeply and the
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:ethical practices in the consent
based practices are, are, are really
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:the way forwards for the future of,
of dog professionals everywhere.
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:To provide access to the right
learning means that we are able to
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:give the knowledge of the language,
the context, the platform really to be
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:able to really stop reacting and start.
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:Really embracing how we are able to
support dogs and their guardians moving
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:forwards and to find our voices and
speak out for the dogs because if we
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:don't advocate for them then we're
not able to really, truly support the
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:dogs in having the emotional safety
and the the ability to be heard.
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:So that's why I'm one of the
reasons why I'm so passionate.
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:But also
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:I can waffle about it for days.
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:Nathan,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh
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:It.
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:It it, I love it.
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:Jo Middleton: I, it is so important
to me to really understand the, the
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:gaps in our knowledge and identify
them, and then focus on filling
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:those gaps, but also to keep our
learning current because there are new
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Jo Middleton: being
published all the time.
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:There are new.
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:Books coming out all the
time, new research coming out.
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:So it's really important for us
to keep our learning current and
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:to understand the nervous system,
to understand pain behaviours, to
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:understand how much sleep a dog needs.
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:It, it's just the foundational
stuff that we need to really keep
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:reinforcing that dogs should be
on two point of contact harnesses.
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:So they've got the range of
movement and their spine and
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:their neck are in alignment.
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:They shouldn't have their airways.
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:Restricted and pressure
put on their trackers.
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:And the OC inocular pressure exacerbated
with tools like slip leads, choke chains,
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:or even just a flat collar and lead.
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:Just the, the nutrition side, the
sleep side, making sure a dog's teeth
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:are checked so they're not in pain.
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:All of these knowledge dot dots,
we need to make sure that we are
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:keeping our knowledge current and
building on those foundations so
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:that we're able to communicate to
guardians without them feeling judged
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:from an educational standpoint.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Brilliant.
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:That leads us nicer to my next question,
but I just wanted to touch on, when
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:you mentioned about imposter syndrome.
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:It is, it is rife
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:Jo Middleton: Rife.
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:Hmm
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.
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:With like some of my mentees I
work with as well but also myself,
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:like obviously going, coming from
a corporate background when I was.
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:Actively practicing as a dog trainer,
I'd never felt imposter syndrome
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:until I became a dog trainer in all my
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:Jo Middleton: hmm.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: career.
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:It was, it was ridiculous.
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:And obviously when you are new into the
industry, it's a mindful, but yeah, and
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:it's great that there's like places like.
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:Canine principles and ICE
that you can get the correct
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:ethical advice and the courses.
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:But it, yeah, it was, it was really a bit
of a mindful when I first started out and
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:like I said, didn't in experience imposter
syndrome until I became a dog trainer.
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:But what would you say are the biggest
knowledge gaps that still exist even for
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:new pet pros or even experienced ones?
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:Jo?
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:Jo Middleton: I think the nutrition side
of things, I is one that is constantly
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:evolving and new research coming out.
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:It is I.
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:Yeah, it is.
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:And it's an area that with the
International School of Canine Psychology,
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:we've got a level three diploma.
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:Our tutor on that is a
wonderful scientist who's.
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:Absolutely fantastic.
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:And we've got some cool stuff
planned to help support people
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:in better understanding.
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:How to make sure that your
dog's nutritional needs are met.
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:What we find is that people
are scared to experiment.
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:They'd rather trust the marketing
hype that I've talked about.
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:Whereas what with the knowledge that
we're able to provide through that
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:level three diploma we're, we're able
to make sure that you are well equipped
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:to make sure that your client's dogs or
your own dogs have got the nutritional
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:values that they need in their food.
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:I think.
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:For me to.
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:Imagine that I'd always fed my
children McDonald's day in, day out.
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:Other junk food brands are available, but
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Jo Middleton: I don't
wanna get in trouble.
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:Yeah.
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:But if I just fed them e numbers
or processed foods all the
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:time not only does well yeah.
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:The, the cognitive impact within
the, the brain doesn't have what it
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:needs to function to its optimum.
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:And the physical, as well.
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:And it's no different with our
dogs if they're not having their
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:nutritional needs met either, but
they have no control over that.
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:We are the ones that
control what they're eating.
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:They.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
That's the thing.
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:Yeah.
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:Jo Middleton: They can't self select.
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:Which is one of the reasons I love
Sohar Cognos, but that's a whole
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:different rabbit hole to go down.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It is.
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:Yeah,
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:it certainly
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:Jo Middleton: It is.
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:But yeah, I'd say nutrition is
probably the biggest gap that we see.
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:And the one that always, sort of grieves
me is when I'm out and about and I see
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:dogs literally hanging themselves or,
or strangle being strangled because
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:they're not on walking equipment.
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:That it is going to support
their balance, their body, and it
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.
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:Jo Middleton: putting that
pressure around their necks.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:The, the nutrition one, it's,
it is crazy 'cause it's such a
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:controversial subject as well.
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:And it's such a beast and like
you said, it's forever evolving.
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:Jo Middleton: Mm.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: and.
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:And a lot of what comes up
in this podcast is that, you
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:know, like the public as well.
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:Like you don't know what you don't know.
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:So until
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:Jo Middleton: Yeah.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: try and
educate them, know, it's all about, it
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:comes back down to education all the time.
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:You know, the walking
equipment and the nutrition.
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:Jo Middleton: and not judging
and not criticizing guardians
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:who have got it wrong, or pet
professionals who have been misled.
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:I, I'd love to know some statistics.
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:I've no idea how we'd get them, but
I'd love to know some statistics around
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:how the, increase of reels and TikTok
videos has impacted the quick fix view
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:that we seem to have as a nation now.
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:Because the, what you see in a
60, 92nd reel is it is not real.
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:It is not real life.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
It's smart.
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:That
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:Jo Middleton: Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:The real's not real.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, I
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:Jo Middleton: Yeah.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
unfortunately we are in a, we are in
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:a space now, like we do want the quick
fixes and we, we are not prepared
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:to put in the work unfortunately.
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:And
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:Jo Middleton: Mm
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
it like on TV or TikTok and Yeah,
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:unfortunately people just are busy.
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:You know, we're
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:Jo Middleton: mm
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: and
we just, people just wanna just, yeah.
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:Quickly get the quick
fixes, unfortunately.
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:Jo Middleton: But then if
you flip that, oh, sorry.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
no, you go my love.
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:Go on.
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:Jo Middleton: If you flip that and think
if I was fostering a child, a toddler that
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:had been through significant trauma and
they had no control, I was responsible
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:for providing them with the nutrition.
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:I was responsible for making sure
that they were properly clothed,
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:they were safe in the adult
world that they were living in.
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:I would not be expecting a quick fix or
some magic wand that was going to make
413
:that child do, as it was told, conform
to whatever boundaries I put in place,
414
:and I would definitely not be expecting
to put something on that child that would
415
:electrocute it, nor would I be expecting
to put some sort of noose around its neck.
416
:It's, it's when you think about it in
those terms, the dogs don't have choices.
417
:It's up to us to create environments
in which they are able to make
418
:choices safely so that they're feeling
empowered and they've got that agency
419
:and they're able to feel self-worth
and grow their self-confidence and,
420
:and build the bond with humans.
421
:If we are constantly.
422
:Coming from a place of do, as I say or
else you're going to get hurt, that's
423
:not going for any free thinking being,
that's not going to set them up for
424
:emotional safety or a feeling of success.
425
:So I think it's really important from.
426
:The education point of view that we
carry on planting the seeds and we carry
427
:on making sure that we're being the
advocates for our dogs that we need to be.
428
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Yeah, definitely really big on
429
:advocacy and being your dog superhero.
430
:Thank you so much.
431
:So talking,
432
:Jo Middleton: I.
433
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
on to canine principles.
434
:So canine Principles is known for
its ethical science-based content.
435
:How do you go about making education
truly accessible and inclusive?
436
:Jo?
437
:Jo Middleton: Hmm.
438
:I think what we really need to focus on is
making sure that we are student centric in
439
:our approach with everything that we do.
440
:We, I.
441
:Have got off qual formal qualifications.
442
:But we also have a massive
range of other courses as well.
443
:So what we've introduced
this year is live courses.
444
:So we've delivered the progressive dog
rehab specialist course live so that
445
:it's more interactive so that people
are able to ask questions, chat, and
446
:just really make sure that we are being
meeting all different learning styles.
447
:So you, you've got the
workbooks, you've got the texts.
448
:Stuff, the copy for people that
like to print things out, highlight,
449
:scribble all over them like me.
450
:But then you've also got the
post-it notes everywhere.
451
:But then you've also got the video
and the interaction element as well.
452
:So that's something new that
we've introduced this year.
453
:We've also got an unlimited.
454
:CPD Skill hub, so it's
a monthly membership.
455
:You get a monthly guest webinar.
456
:From a, a guest expert that comes in
and delivers amazing content, but you've
457
:got the playback to watch as long as
you are a member of the CPD skills hub.
458
:So you've got unlimited CPD, you
get a certificate for each course,
459
:workshop or webinar that you
complete within the CPD skills hub,
460
:but you have got access to that at
whatever pace or whatever learning.
461
:Style that you need to to have met.
462
:You can get that through
the CPD skill hub.
463
:It's not rushed.
464
:It's not pressured.
465
:It's up to you and you can choose cherry
pick what you want or need at that time.
466
:So for example, if you are.
467
:Going to see a dog that's
displaying reactive behaviours.
468
:You can search a CPD scar hub to find
something that's going to support
469
:you in making sure, even if you're
just refreshing knowledge that
470
:you've already gained or you want
a little confidence boost, you've
471
:got those resources the, for you.
472
:And then the final thing, I guess the
final way that we, we make sure that.
473
:Everyone is really part of the
Canine principles community
474
:is our student Facebook group.
475
:So
476
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.
477
:Yeah.
478
:Jo Middleton: it, if you're in
the group, there's really no
479
:such thing as a silly question.
480
:And I know we all feel sometimes,
oh no, it might be a silly question.
481
:Just post anonymously if you think
it's gonna be, as you're gonna
482
:get some backlash off it, or you
don't want to ask it as yourself.
483
:Just post anonymously and get people's
feedback because the dog world.
484
:Can be quite a cruel place
sometimes as a dog professional,
485
:everyone is very passionate.
486
:Everyone everyone you would like to
think would be in it for the best
487
:interest of the dogs, but sometimes
things do get a bit heated and if you've.
488
:Typed something out and deleted it again
and thought, no, I'm not gonna post that.
489
:Then canine principles is definitely
the place for you to be learning
490
:because we will support you in making
sure that you are reaching your full
491
:potential, no matter whether you want
to follow the traditional behavioural
492
:route and go up to your, your level
five, your level six, or whether you
493
:want to niche into something more like.
494
:Trauma reactivity, nutrition
anxiety, something like that.
495
:Canine principles is
the place for you there.
496
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
brilliant.
497
:That Facebook group, I think has
got about 60,000 members as well.
498
:It's crazy.
499
:So
500
:Jo Middleton: has, yeah,
the page has, yeah.
501
:We've got quite a big following.
502
:Yeah.
503
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
of course.
504
:Yeah.
505
:Jo Middleton: Yeah.
506
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
study group and then the, the page.
507
:Yeah.
508
:Wow.
509
:Jo Middleton: Yeah.
510
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
It's, it's brilliant.
511
:So moving on to our next section,
which is all about dog parents.
512
:So for any dog, parents guardians that
may be listening, hopefully they are.
513
:Our first question is, do you think pet
guardians should engage in dog training,
514
:behaviour education too, even if they're
not in inverted commas in the industry.
515
:Jo Middleton: Oh my goodness.
516
:Yes.
517
:You are.
518
:Oh, absolutely.
519
:So.
520
:I believe controversially to some that
training the human is more important
521
:than training the dog because the dog
already really knows its behaviour.
522
:What we are doing by training.
523
:The human is making sure that
they're being consistent with how
524
:they're showing up for their dog.
525
:Making sure that the dog isn't
getting one message from one member
526
:of the family and one member from
another one message from another.
527
:Even just the body language.
528
:Nevermind the verbal cues.
529
:Cues.
530
:So if you are a dog guardian,
you are with your dog 24 7.
531
:Sort of day in, day out, apart from
if you have to pop out when you are
532
:working with a behaviourist or a dog
walker comes in once a day or any
533
:professional, they're with your dog
for a tiny little limited amount.
534
:They're with you and your dog for
that tiny little limited amount.
535
:So the more that you
can understand as a dog.
536
:Guardian about your dog's
communication and their needs.
537
:The less confusion they'll be, the
less conflict they'll be, the less
538
:stress they'll be for you and your dog.
539
:But most importantly, it will be that
trust bond that your building with your
540
:dog, and that is such a beautiful thing.
541
:I talk about paying into the emotional
bank account of our dogs and.
542
:We need to pay into their
emotional bank accounts before
543
:we can ask anything from them.
544
:So before we can make a withdrawal
from a banking background,
545
:it's quite appropriate for you.
546
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
love, love that analogy.
547
:Jo Middleton: But we do, we, I
pinched that, that's not mine.
548
:I dunno which book it was.
549
:I read that that was in, but it was
but we, we, we need to make sure
550
:that we are constantly paying into
their emotional bank account so that
551
:we've got that trust bond with them.
552
:'cause if you are just trying to ask
them for something and you've got no
553
:bond, it, it makes things really tricky.
554
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.
555
:Yeah, definitely.
556
:Absolutely
557
:Jo Middleton: I.
558
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Thank you so much.
559
:So what would you say is a common
myth about dog behaviour that you
560
:wish everyone knew wasn't true?
561
:Jo Middleton: Just the one,
562
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, wow.
563
:Yeah, you could do as many as you
564
:Jo Middleton: I think, I think the biggest
one is still dominance theory and that
565
:dogs are trying to be the boss of us.
566
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I know.
567
:Jo Middleton: they're not.
568
:They're trying their hardest to
cope in a, a world that they don't
569
:understand, a world that's confusing.
570
:And if a dog's struggling, they
really need safety and understanding.
571
:They don't need you to control them.
572
:They're not trying to be the boss of you.
573
:They're, they're struggling
and they're communicating with
574
:you that they're struggling.
575
:So I'd say that's probably the biggest
myth that I would love to see busted.
576
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: And
I think it's because like they see
577
:a dog try to mount another dog and
oh, they're trying to dominate it.
578
:But you know, we know, and hopefully
a lot of people do and will take away
579
:from this, is that if a dog's over
aroused, like their bucket's fallen,
580
:overflowing, they will mount another dog
581
:Jo Middleton: Yeah.
582
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
trying to release that arousal.
583
:But you know, like, again, going back
to, we dunno, what we don't know is that
584
:people think, oh, he, he's mounting him
or how he's just trying to dominate the
585
:dog and that's not what they're doing.
586
:Jo Middleton: Mm.
587
:Also I think, like things come
generational, Lee, don't they?
588
:They come down generations and it's
what granddad said, what mom said,
589
:and now what you've, you are saying.
590
:But I was on a podcast last night with
Debbie Luckin from Kids Around Dogs
591
:and she was saying, just remember that
your children are always watching.
592
:They're always, they're like little.
593
:Sponges kind of thing.
594
:They're always watching.
595
:Always listening.
596
:And our dogs are too, and we
need to be really careful.
597
:Mm
598
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
That's, that's, I love that.
599
:That's really, that's really interesting.
600
:What advice, Jay, would you give to
any pet parent dog guardian, feeling
601
:overwhelmed or in, or unsure who to trust
when it comes to training advice online?
602
:Jo Middleton: mm.
603
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.
604
:Jo Middleton: I'd probably
say start trusting your gut.
605
:If it doesn't sit right with
you, then trust your gut.
606
:Look for professionals who really do.
607
:Study with ethical organizations like
Canine Principals in the international
608
:school for canine psychology.
609
:Obviously I'm biased, but there
are others out there as well.
610
:But we want to make sure that
we're using professionals who, and
611
:creating almost a circle of care
of professionals for each dog.
612
:So a vet, maybe a hydro, maybe a physio.
613
:So you've got those.
614
:Ethical professionals that you can call
on to support your dog when you need to.
615
:Don't wait for something to crop up.
616
:And then you are looking
for the professional.
617
:Just have those professionals follow them.
618
:Do your research before you need
them, and never be afraid to ask for a
619
:second opinion, even if it's your vet.
620
:We, we tend to trust our vets because
they are the professional, but.
621
:Every vet has different
specialisms and every vet.
622
:It's not possible for a
human to know everything.
623
:So you are perfectly within your rights
to go to a different veterinary practice.
624
:If something doesn't sit right
with you you're perfectly within
625
:your rights to ring around.
626
:And like for example, my little staffy
girl, Lola, had something neurological
627
:going on and I wasn't comfortable
with the, I just, I just wanted the
628
:peace of mind of a second opinion
because I didn't want to put to sleep.
629
:And I wanted to make sure
it was the right choice.
630
:So I rang around and asked.
631
:Do you have a vet who specializes in this?
632
:And three practices said
no, and one said yes.
633
:So I went and saw that veterinary
professional at that practice, and
634
:then I also rang our local veterinary
hospital and paid to have a Zoom call
635
:with their specialist there as well.
636
:But it just, you are, people don't
realize that you are able to do that and
637
:you are able to, you, you are in charge.
638
:You are the customer.
639
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.
640
:Jo Middleton: So you are able
to make those choices, and if it
641
:doesn't sit right, trust your gut.
642
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
643
:Yeah.
644
:It is, it is like a mindful with all the
conflicting advice, but luckily we've
645
:got like, you know, platforms like canine
principles, the ICP and I but yeah, I,
646
:Jo Middleton: Oh,
647
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
I've act, I've, God, am I lovely.
648
:Jo Middleton: We've got the Ethical
Canine Professional Register on
649
:the if you go to canine ethics.org,
650
:look for professionals who
are listed on the It is live.
651
:Yes.
652
:Go on.
653
:Go on canine ethics.org
654
:and click on register and you'll see.
655
:But you'll be able to find one near you.
656
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Yeah, yeah, I'm on that.
657
:I'll go and check.
658
:I'll go and check
659
:Jo Middleton: Yay.
660
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: as well.
661
:Yeah.
662
:Brilliant.
663
:And yeah, I was gonna say, I got
a second opinion with my dog, LIO.
664
:I talk about a lot on it 'cause
he's got sa and chronic back pain.
665
:But we did, we had a referral and
we went to one specialist hospital,
666
:but then I went to another one.
667
:It's just for that
668
:Jo Middleton: Mm-hmm.
669
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
peace of mind,
670
:Jo Middleton: Yeah.
671
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
So moving on to our next section,
672
:which is all about how us pet
pros can keep growing, Jo.
673
:So for dog walkers like myself, pet
sitters, groomers, trainers, tuning
674
:in, where do they start if they
want to level up their knowledge?
675
:Jo Middleton: I'd go over to the
ISCP International School for
676
:canine psychology, the iscp.com
677
:and grab the free course on
canine bite-sized communication.
678
:I think that's a brilliant place to start.
679
:We need to understand dog's,
body languages and you should
680
:also always have a current canine
first aid certificate as well.
681
:So if you go over, yeah, really important.
682
:If you go over to canine principles.com,
683
:you can get your first aid
certificate over there.
684
:But it's important that you
keep it current because, things
685
:change, guidance changes,
686
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: do.
687
:Jo Middleton: And best practice changes.
688
:And also to maybe think about exploring
more trauma-informed approaches.
689
:Maybe look at your bite-sized
CPD, the CPD skill hub.
690
:I know like it's not about promoting,
but I'm just thinking what we've
691
:got in our armory that could help.
692
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: so good.
693
:Jo Middleton: There's, there's just
so much sort of education stuff
694
:that you could be doing, but I'd
say the body language, that free
695
:free course with the ISCP and the
first aid would be the essentials.
696
:But also to continue growing just.
697
:I guess remember that when you are
feeling those, that mind monkey
698
:chatter of I'm not good enough.
699
:Who am I to do that?
700
:Or that sort of stuff that your brain
tells you just to remember that that voice
701
:is, it's actually a sign that you care.
702
:And it's because you care that you
are feeling that imposter syndrome.
703
:So find your crowd, find find your people.
704
:We've got amazing communities
that you can join.
705
:Find them because.
706
:They will be your sanity.
707
:In times when, when you are really
doubting yourself, that community, that
708
:mentorship it is just absolutely second
to none because it can be quite a lonely
709
:road sometimes out there in the dog world.
710
:I,
711
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
712
:And I think, like you said, as dog, as
pet professionals, we do care a lot.
713
:That's
714
:Jo Middleton: hmm.
715
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
we do what we do, but we can then
716
:suffer from like compassion fatigue.
717
:And it's important to get
around people that get it.
718
:Like you say,
719
:Jo Middleton: Yeah.
720
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
your your gang, find your community.
721
:So what would be the advice to someone
who does feel a bit stuck or like an
722
:imposter in their pet care career?
723
:Jo Middleton: Ooh.
724
:Okay.
725
:So back in 2000 and.
726
:Seven.
727
:I fled an abusive relationship,
moved across to a different part of
728
:the country and was homeless with
two children under the age of six.
729
:I had to do an awful lot of work on my
mindset and an awful lot of rebuilding.
730
:Everything.
731
:And I read a book called Change Your
Life in Seven Days by Paul McKenna.
732
:And you read a chapter a
day for the seven days.
733
:And I'm not saying in that seven days,
ma magically my life transformed.
734
:But I swear that book was.
735
:Absolutely pivotal for me.
736
:It comes with a hypnosis that
you can access now on YouTube.
737
:It's a 30 minute hypnosis you
listen to morning and night.
738
:And yeah, I, I'd say listen to that,
read that book and practice some
739
:of the techniques that he teaches
you and yeah, a game changer.
740
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.
741
:Wow.
742
:Thank you.
743
:Brilliant.
744
:And how we've already mentioned this a
little bit, but how important is community
745
:and mentorship in learning in your view?
746
:Jo Middleton: Oh, it is just a
lot of our students come to us.
747
:In sort of as mature students.
748
:So maybe they've been out of education
for many years or maybe they have got
749
:NeuroD diversities that weren't recognized
in the traditional educational system.
750
:What we've got with our community,
it brings perspective, it brings
751
:encouragement, it brings the motivation.
752
:It can give you the accountability.
753
:You've got your tutor that you can
reach out to whenever you you want
754
:to, but having that community of your
peers and just to say things like, like
755
:I'm writing a book at the moment, I.
756
:I'm in the canine principles has got
a writer's course, gerdon, who you've
757
:had on the podcast, heads that up.
758
:And just to be in the, the writer's
group that we've got, and for me
759
:to be able to say, oh, I haven't
written anything this week.
760
:And someone to say something like.
761
:Crack on then, which is,
762
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
crack the whip.
763
:Jo Middleton: yeah.
764
:Or, or j
765
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
they, I thought you were gonna say, oh.
766
:They were like, oh, it's all right.
767
:Don't worry.
768
:But
769
:Jo Middleton: no trot on.
770
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: on.
771
:Jo Middleton: But just to have some
accountability or, or for someone to
772
:say, don't worry, I haven't either.
773
:And, and like say she'll
be accountability buddy.
774
:Or you know, just to have that sort of.
775
:Ongoing support from people
who are walking the same path.
776
:If you, as you or have walked
that path is just super cool.
777
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
778
:So you say that writing,
that writing circle is part
779
:of canine principles, is it?
780
:Jo Middleton: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
781
:So we've got the,
782
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
All right.
783
:Jo Middleton: Yeah and we've got a
writer's retreat coming up in October
784
:as well, which is gonna be super cool.
785
:Yeah.
786
:Jay and I are leading it 'cause we're
both both published authors darling.
787
:So,
788
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
yes you are.
789
:Yes.
790
:Jo Middleton: yeah.
791
:So it's gonna be super cool.
792
:Hope you can come.
793
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Oh, okay.
794
:Well listen out for more about that.
795
:Okay.
796
:So just moving on to our next section.
797
:And then we're, we've not,
well we'll be wrapping up soon.
798
:We've literally sailed through this one.
799
:So values led learning, so the
IICE ICE and the ISCP are known
800
:for their ethical framework.
801
:are values like consent,
compassion, and individuality?
802
:That's a big one at the core
of the way you teach Jo.
803
:Jo Middleton: Dogs are sentient beings.
804
:They're not robots.
805
:They're, they feel they have.
806
:Basic needs, but they have
layers on top of that.
807
:So they deserve autonomy.
808
:They deserve respect.
809
:They deserve to be heard
when they're saying no.
810
:And professionals deserve training.
811
:That doesn't put them against the.
812
:Animals that they love
and they want to help.
813
:So the, I guess the values, they're
not sort of extra icing on the cake.
814
:They're really the foundation of
truly ethical work that we do.
815
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
816
:Jo Middleton: I.
817
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Yeah, yeah.
818
:Brilliant.
819
:Thank you.
820
:So how can education be part
of creating a more ethical and
821
:emotionally safer pet industry?
822
:Jo, I.
823
:Jo Middleton: Ooh, GLI me.
824
:How can education be part
825
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: part
826
:Jo Middleton: sorry.
827
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No, no.
828
:That's cool.
829
:How can education be part of
creating a more ethical and
830
:emotionally safer pet industry?
831
:Jo Middleton: I guess
it's a cultural shift.
832
:And we want it to become the norm.
833
:It should be the norm and it.
834
:When we teach ethically,
we are changing culture.
835
:We are showing up and coming.
836
:Dog professionals.
837
:That control isn't power.
838
:The, the compassion
element is the true power.
839
:And we are really sort of.
840
:Picking apart and dismantling the
outdated, harmful former norms, if you
841
:like, that were the Barbara Woodhouse
days, the CAEs and Lamb sort of.
842
:And, and there are many, sadly still out
there who promote aversive methods, but
843
:education is really that cultural shift
and forming a more, a more compassionate
844
:core of dog professionals that is
the new normal, as opposed to the dog
845
:professionals who maybe are still out
there supporting the use of various tools
846
:or, or methods that harm a dog, not just
physically, but emotionally as well.
847
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
848
:Yeah.
849
:It's a shame that that's still
going on, but we just need to keep
850
:flow flying that ethical flag.
851
:So great.
852
:Jo Middleton: Yeah.
853
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: We're
gonna start wrapping up this episode.
854
:It's been packed full of so
much information I've absolutely
855
:loved you know speaking with you.
856
:So moving on to our final section,
which is all about looking ahead.
857
:what's next for you, Jo Canine principles.
858
:ICE and the ISCP.
859
:exciting
860
:Jo Middleton: all the secrets.
861
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Any, any exciting projects or
862
:future hopes that you can share?
863
:Any additional exciting projects
or future hopes or anything you
864
:Jo Middleton: Absolutely.
865
:Absolutely.
866
:Yes, definitely.
867
:So the Progressive Dog Rehab Specialist
course that we delivered live a few
868
:weeks ago is going through the CPD
accreditation process, so that'll
869
:be formally accredited and rolled
out as a formal CPD accreditation
870
:with canine principles, which is.
871
:Mega exciting.
872
:And we've also got our writer's
retreat as well coming up in October,
873
:which is really, really cool.
874
:So that's going to be co-presented
by Jay Gerin and I, save the
875
:date, 13th of June, 2026.
876
:Harborough University, the
Canine Principles conference.
877
:Which yeah.
878
:Oh yeah, that's, hmm.
879
:That I went to.
880
:Oh, so exciting.
881
:The lineup.
882
:But.
883
:What was really funny was we
went to, to view the venue.
884
:I went with my husband
and I was like, I'm sold.
885
:I need to study here.
886
:I need, and he's like, oh, brilliant.
887
:Yeah, yeah, you do that.
888
:And I, hold on.
889
:You do realize that I won't be
at home like Monday to Friday.
890
:He's like, yeah, you go.
891
:I, I'm not quite sure how to take that.
892
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Where, where is it?
893
:Well, you know, he's, he's
obviously wants to support you.
894
:Where is it?
895
:Not heard?
896
:Tell,
897
:Jo Middleton: Harre.
898
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
I've not heard of it before.
899
:Har.
900
:Jo Middleton: Oh, it's,
yeah, Gloucestershire.
901
:Really, really cool place.
902
:Yeah, set.
903
:It's set in hundreds of acres
of rolling countryside and just
904
:the most amazing learning space.
905
:So that's the 13th of June next year.
906
:And.
907
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
That's exciting.
908
:Jo Middleton: It is, there's so
much exciting stuff going on.
909
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
with that.
910
:You know, I do.
911
:Jo Middleton: Ah, honestly, it, oh yeah.
912
:See, but you might wanna get involved
with some of the other stuff as well.
913
:So,
914
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
well, I'll get involved with it.
915
:Oh, you know me.
916
:Jo Middleton: Yeah.
917
:Love it.
918
:The ISEP, we've got the big dog psych
conference, which is a virtual one
919
:coming up summit rather than conference.
920
:Yeah, that one's going to be
towards the end of this year.
921
:So keep your ears and eyes
peeled for more info on that one.
922
:Some of the international, scientists,
top behaviourist trainers that
923
:we've got jumping in on that are
like mind blowing starstruck.
924
:So that's really exciting.
925
:With the ISEP as well.
926
:We are launching a new course over
the next few weeks actually which is
927
:a level three mental health first aid
course for people working in dog rescue.
928
:We, we spoke about this before, didn't we?
929
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
930
:Jo Middleton: Yeah.
931
:Yeah.
932
:So what I would love to see is for
every rescue to have a dedicated mental
933
:health first aider within their team.
934
:And I know from my experience in
rescue over the past 25 odd years that.
935
:The pressures that, that, the time,
the resource pressures, et cetera,
936
:on rescues, this almost seems like
an extra thing to add to that.
937
:However,
938
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: However.
939
:Jo Middleton: the emotional toll for
someone in rescue who gets into it
940
:because they love the animals and
they love dogs and they want to make
941
:a difference, and then they're having
to turn dogs away because there is.
942
:Just no room for them.
943
:And they're feeling that they're
sentencing that dog to death because
944
:there is no room for that dog.
945
:That mental toll, it, it,
I can't even describe.
946
:I did a podcast with, the, the raw
pet medics A couple of months ago,
947
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
yes, yes.
948
:Jo Middleton: I was speaking
about this kind of thing.
949
:By the end of that week I had I think
five dogs that had been basically, it
950
:had been shifted onto my my plate, if you
like, that if I didn't find somewhere for
951
:these dogs to go, they'd be put to sleep.
952
:And for that mental strain
is, is just horrific.
953
:So.
954
:That is something that we're launching
through the ISCP and we are going to be
955
:working with rescues worldwide to roll
that out to see if we can really make
956
:an impact to support, better support the
mental health of people working in rescue.
957
:And that leads me nicely onto what
we've got coming with the International
958
:Institute for Canine Ethics.
959
:There's a couple of things, a couple
of things with the International
960
:Institute for Canine Ethics.
961
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
just rebranded as
962
:Jo Middleton: Oh,
963
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: You
964
:Jo Middleton: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
965
:The,
966
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
967
:Love it.
968
:Jo Middleton: Yes.
969
:So the International Institute for
Canine Ethics is all about supporting dog
970
:professionals in being the most ethical
version of themselves that they can be.
971
:So no matter how you come into
contact with dogs during your role,
972
:I supports you with ongoing learning,
ongoing CPD and the support network
973
:that we all need in the dog world.
974
:The traditional kind of rule when a
dog is rehomed is called the 3, 3 3.
975
:The 3, 3, 3, 3 days, three weeks.
976
:Three months is a rigid timeline of
things that you should be able to
977
:expect from that dog or for the dog
to stages for the dog to have gone
978
:through by the three month period.
979
:With the aim to reduce bounce backs
into rescue really, and for guardians
980
:to have a better understanding
of the dog that they've re-homed.
981
:However, you and I both know that
dogs can't stick to a rigid timeline.
982
:They don't know that by three days
they should be doing this or by three
983
:weeks they should be doing that.
984
:So ICE is, has got a
new, a, a new 3, 3, 3.
985
:We, we want to keep the.
986
:Guidance, the stages for guardians
to understand so that they're able
987
:to see what stage their dog's at.
988
:But we don't want a rigid
timeline because the last stage
989
:is ongoing for the dog's life.
990
:It's not gonna happen by three months.
991
:It's a constant paying into
that emotional bank account.
992
:So ICE is just launching the.
993
:Three stages of adjustment.
994
:You'll be able to download the overview
of the three stages of adjustment as
995
:a free resource on the ICE website.
996
:It's literally going live this week.
997
:It's all been drafted and
we've actually got some press.
998
:We, we are in some pretty
big press about it as well.
999
:But the what we're, we're doing is
working with a, a wonderful team to roll
:
00:51:48,387 --> 00:51:50,877
that out across rescues across the uk.
:
00:51:51,207 --> 00:51:55,257
Buddy it up with a mental health
first aid course from the ISCP.
:
00:51:55,827 --> 00:52:02,817
And provide the education to guardians
who are adopting dogs and implementing
:
00:52:02,817 --> 00:52:08,457
the three stages of adjustment with
the ongoing education that they can tap
:
00:52:08,457 --> 00:52:13,317
into as and when they need it, when they
see a stage or an element of a stage.
:
00:52:13,707 --> 00:52:17,817
So that's super exciting and hopefully
going to make a a massive difference.
:
00:52:19,057 --> 00:52:23,287
And then the other thing with ICE that
we are working on for prep professionals
:
00:52:23,317 --> 00:52:30,717
is a fabulous, amazing support team
of everything that you need to grow
:
00:52:31,047 --> 00:52:36,387
and develop and find your voice to
speak out your confidence, everything
:
00:52:36,387 --> 00:52:41,017
that you need from your business
strategy to your accreditation pathway,
:
00:52:41,017 --> 00:52:44,057
to getting on the A BTC pathway.
:
00:52:44,057 --> 00:52:48,647
Every, even, even your copywriting
for your social media platforms or
:
00:52:48,647 --> 00:52:51,047
your blog posts, or if you go out.
:
00:52:51,407 --> 00:52:56,747
You've got a client with a case study
that you're not quite sure how to act
:
00:52:56,807 --> 00:53:01,957
or how, what to say, or you, you can't
find the words we are providing something
:
00:53:01,957 --> 00:53:04,507
that is completely end to end for you.
:
00:53:04,507 --> 00:53:07,297
That's in beta testing mode at the moment.
:
00:53:09,747 --> 00:53:10,487
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
So exciting.
:
00:53:11,227 --> 00:53:13,657
Jo Middleton: I know and there's
more, but I can't tell you.
:
00:53:14,907 --> 00:53:15,882
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
That's okay.
:
00:53:15,942 --> 00:53:16,992
That's fine.
:
00:53:16,992 --> 00:53:17,592
I'm loving it.
:
00:53:17,592 --> 00:53:21,222
We've got lays of lots to work
with there, but no exciting times.
:
00:53:21,222 --> 00:53:26,652
So Jo, if you could give one
message to every person working with
:
00:53:26,652 --> 00:53:28,842
dogs right now, what would it be?
:
00:53:31,982 --> 00:53:32,822
Jo Middleton: Ooh.
:
00:53:32,852 --> 00:53:39,902
I think don't confuse being
compassionate with being weak.
:
00:53:41,057 --> 00:53:45,977
Don't, don't let anyone ever
make you feel that by being
:
00:53:45,977 --> 00:53:49,007
compassionate, you are being weak.
:
00:53:49,637 --> 00:53:55,997
Doing right by the dogs, even
when it's hard, is the strongest
:
00:53:55,997 --> 00:53:57,407
thing really, that you can do.
:
00:53:57,407 --> 00:54:03,617
So don't let other people or,
or don't ever let yourself talk.
:
00:54:04,077 --> 00:54:09,027
And that mind monkey chatter
confuse compassion with weakness.
:
00:54:09,627 --> 00:54:10,767
Would be my message.
:
00:54:10,912 --> 00:54:11,192
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Brilliant.
:
00:54:12,007 --> 00:54:12,337
Brilliant.
:
00:54:12,337 --> 00:54:12,712
I love that.
:
00:54:13,182 --> 00:54:14,947
Jo, thank you so much.
:
00:54:14,947 --> 00:54:18,637
Literally, this episode's been
jampacked with so much information.
:
00:54:18,637 --> 00:54:19,447
I've loved it.
:
00:54:19,757 --> 00:54:23,177
Finally, how can people get in touch with
you, Jo, if they wanna find out more?
:
00:54:24,467 --> 00:54:25,997
Jo Middleton: Just pop a message over.
:
00:54:25,997 --> 00:54:33,557
Just head over to your email and
type in jojo@kineprinciples.com.
:
00:54:35,277 --> 00:54:35,877
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Brilliant.
:
00:54:35,967 --> 00:54:37,047
Thank you so much.
:
00:54:37,347 --> 00:54:43,677
Jerry Middleton, thank you for joining me
on The Yappy Hour, powered by Yappy today.
:
00:54:44,007 --> 00:54:44,938
Absolutely loved it.
:
00:54:45,087 --> 00:54:48,357
We will get you back in the future
'cause I feel we've just scratched your,
:
00:54:48,687 --> 00:54:51,027
there's lots more we can talk about.
:
00:54:51,307 --> 00:54:53,962
Thank you for your time and
we will see you again soon.
:
00:54:55,127 --> 00:54:56,472
Jo Middleton: Thank you for having me.
:
00:54:57,682 --> 00:54:57,832
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: You are
:
00:55:03,208 --> 00:55:03,478
Wow.
:
00:55:03,478 --> 00:55:06,598
That was a truly
enlightening conversation.
:
00:55:06,878 --> 00:55:12,958
Jo's passion for education, ethics
and empowerment absolutely shines
:
00:55:12,958 --> 00:55:17,188
through, and it's clear that learning
isn't just about ticking boxes.
:
00:55:17,428 --> 00:55:20,968
It's about doing better
for dogs and ourselves.
:
00:55:21,388 --> 00:55:24,628
Here are a few golden
nuggets from today's chat.
:
00:55:25,138 --> 00:55:25,888
Number one.
:
00:55:26,293 --> 00:55:31,453
Learning is a journey, not a
destination, especially in a field as
:
00:55:31,453 --> 00:55:34,393
emotional and evolving as pet care.
:
00:55:34,963 --> 00:55:40,813
Number two, accessible ethical education
empowers everyone from seasoned
:
00:55:40,813 --> 00:55:43,513
pet pros to brand new pet parents.
:
00:55:43,873 --> 00:55:47,473
Number three, values
should guide education.
:
00:55:47,743 --> 00:55:50,923
Science matters, but so does compassion.
:
00:55:51,613 --> 00:55:54,973
Number four, imposter syndrome is normal.
:
00:55:55,273 --> 00:55:59,773
Community support and small
steps forward are key.
:
00:56:00,373 --> 00:56:05,803
Number five, dog guardians can
benefit hugely from ongoing learning
:
00:56:05,803 --> 00:56:10,248
too because understanding your
dog is the ultimate relationship.
:
00:56:10,448 --> 00:56:10,928
Goal.
:
00:56:11,528 --> 00:56:16,748
Thank you so much, uh, to Jo for sharing
your heart and wisdom with us today.
:
00:56:17,108 --> 00:56:21,408
We'll link all of Jo's incredible
platforms and resources in the
:
00:56:21,408 --> 00:56:27,288
show notes, including canine
principles, the ISCP and ice.
:
00:56:27,738 --> 00:56:32,868
Until next time, keep learning,
keep growing, and give
:
00:56:32,868 --> 00:56:34,578
your dog a cuddle from me.
:
00:56:35,328 --> 00:56:39,188
This has been the Yappy
Hour powered by Yappily