Artwork for podcast Minding My Creative Business Podcast
What is a Creativepreneur? | MMCB Episode 1
Episode 18th January 2024 • Minding My Creative Business Podcast • Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr. and ShySpeaks
00:00:00 00:42:44

Share Episode


Show Notes - Episode 1 - What is a Creative Entrepreneur

1 - Key Topics

Background: Are you a creative entrepreneur seeking to turn your artistic passions into thriving business ventures? Look no further! In this episode of the Minding My Creative Business podcast, hosts Shy Speaks and Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr. delve into the dynamic world of creative entrepreneurship. They unravel the essence of being a creative entrepreneur, dissect the roles within this realm, and explore the transition from creator to CEO. Get ready to embark on a journey of insights and strategies that empower creative entrepreneurs to flourish in their endeavors.

Key Topics Covered:

  • Defining Creative Entrepreneurs: Discover what it truly means to be a creative entrepreneur who combines artistic talents with business acumen.
  • Four Types of Creative Entrepreneurs: Explore the distinct roles of artists, makers, movers, and shakers within the realm of creative entrepreneurship.
  • Transitioning Between Roles: Learn how creative entrepreneurs can evolve and adapt as they shift between different roles to align with their changing passions and goals.
  • The Shaker Perspective: Gain inspiration from prominent figures like Dr. Oz and Walt Disney, who transformed their creative visions into successful business ventures.
  • Balancing Creativity and Business: Uncover the art of balancing creative pursuits with effective business strategies, including the importance of automation and team expansion.

Conclusion: Join Shy Speaks and Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr. on this enlightening episode that lays the foundation for creative entrepreneurs to build, innovate, and succeed. Stay tuned for future episodes that delve deeper into the transition from creator to CEO, featuring interviews with accomplished creative entrepreneurs. As the hosts inspire you to mind your creative business, remember that success requires intention, consistency, and laser focus.

Target Audience: This episode is tailored for aspiring and established creative entrepreneurs who are eager to amplify their artistic talents while building successful business ventures. Whether you're an artist, maker, mover, or shaker, the insights shared in this episode will guide you on your journey to creative and entrepreneurial fulfillment.

Episode Duration: Approximately 42 minutes


ShySpeaks: [:

where you can get strategy and structure and self development. It's the number

one spot for all three of those for creative entrepreneurs. Listen, I am your host,

Shy Speaks.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: And I'm your host, Ron Ironic Lee. And today is

episode one of the mind of my creative business podcast.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: And today's episode is. What is a creativepreneur?

ShySpeaks: What is it, right? So we can answer that ourselves and we plan to

give our own definitions, but we found a definition that we just think is great.

Uh, there was a young lady who said that she was out and about at a networking

event and somebody asked her, What do you do?

ShySpeaks: She says, well, I actually help creative entrepreneurs and they were

like, oh, cool. Wait, what's a creative entrepreneur? And so we know that some

of you [:

definition that she gave. We think it's really cool. Let's check it out. Ron, give it

to him.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: All right. So her definition is a person who uses their

creative abilities to make money. It's one thing to be a painter, but a creative

entrepreneur or creative preneur takes their paintings. and creates a business

model around selling them to sustain a living for themselves.

ShySpeaks: Okay. Listen, let's get right here.

ShySpeaks: Two key words, business model, and then sustain a living. I just

love those two together. Right? So especially as a creative renewer, like as a

creative, I would love to be able to take my creativity and all this beauty, build a

business model. And then here's the part. Sustain a living. Uh uh. Ain't no

starving artists.

ShySpeaks: We sustaining livings out here with this definition. That's why I


Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: it. No, definitely. Definitely. No, like you said, so that's,

that's her definition, right? So I have another definition that I came up with, and

I think it's, I [:

hey, let me, let me share this one.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Let me share this one. So my definition, go ahead.


ShySpeaks: Cause, cause like, it's just the whole idea of like being able to

sustain a living, but then it's like, well, what if, how can I sustain a living? If it

like, you know, if I'm just doing creativity myself versus like, how, if I, how do

I become an entrepreneur?

ShySpeaks: Like it's. Get a definition. You may be able to help me, right?

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: All right. So my definition of a creative manure is a

talented or skillful person who uses their creativity to build a business around a

personal mission, passion, or purpose. Hmm.

ShySpeaks: Run it back.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: All right. A creativepreneur is a talented or skillful

person who uses their creativity to build a business around a personal mission,

passion, or purpose.

ShySpeaks: Okay. [:

person, personal mission, you know, impact, the purpose, the passion. I love

that because it's not just a creative skill, it can, it kind of, it, it, it has an

expanded view, but the thing that's still there, that was there in the first

definition, the first definition said business model, your definition, Ron's

definition says.

ShySpeaks: Build a business. So we still have something there around business

and building something, some type of model. And so the reason why that's

important is because I heard this, I heard this one guy, he's a, he's an online

guru, so to speak. And he was talking about the difference in between an, like

an, an artisan and an entrepreneur, right?

ShySpeaks: Or artisan and the entrepreneur and how the artisan just wants to

do the thing. They just want to create, create, create, and they can't be an

entrepreneur. And I'm like, but they can be a creative entrepreneur according to

ition. Let's be clear, but I [:

And the, the, while I disagree with the notion to a degree, I understand because

there does come a point in time where there's time and then there's a demand,


ShySpeaks: So like, if you're making, for example, pastries, making pastries for

one local restaurant, like they love the way your stuff say, say, Hey, bring it on

down here. Bring your pastries. I'm gonna sell them. And at the end of the day,

or at the end of the week, however many I sell, , you get a profit, you're in


ShySpeaks: 'cause now you're selling a thing, you're using your creativity, your

culinary skill skills, and now you're, you're, you're right. So am I right Ron?

They in business at that point, right? Right. Yeah. I'm the, the issue though is

when demand happens, when that one restaurant owner, uh, Tells another friend

or a buddy of his and it's like now you have five restaurants that all want your

pastries in their restaurant.

ShySpeaks: Like we want a local custom baked goods from you. So now you

still got the same amount of time in a day. So how are you going to meet that


you have a personal mission, like Ron said in his definition, passion, and you're

passionate about like bringing joy to the elderly community and honoring our

elders, and your way of doing that is to have them fresh blueberry muffins in the

morning at senior living facilities.

ShySpeaks: You know, something with a smile, right? So now, you now have

to go out and find the senior living facilities that are going to let you have those

pastries in there. So now, you got. You went from one restaurant, now you got...

for restaurants because he told you to, told you, told you, uh, uh, talked about

you to all of his friends and all his restaurants and now your personal mission,

you want to start supplying senior living, uh, and retirement homes with these


ShySpeaks: Okay, cool. So, Now you have to go out and actually seek this

business. So you're going to go create some demand for yourself. So you got


emails, reach out to the people at the senior facilities or the retirement homes is

going to take it, take away from your time that you can be actually.

ShySpeaks: Creating the pastries. So you have to kind of choose at some point

what to do. So there, I understand why you said that, because there's this whole

time and demand piece, right? You gotta, some of you want to know,

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: and this is, and this is kind of, um, I understand what

you're saying and I understand what he's saying as well.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Right. My, so Michael Gerber in the book, uh, the e

myth, the e myth revisited, he calls them technicians. Right. Um, and that's what

you're saying, like an artisan where like you're gifted at this. And because you're

gifted at this thing, you're like, okay, I'm going to start a business, but not

understanding that it's starting a business.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: There are certain systems, processes, all these things are

business model that you have to put in place in order for you to run the

business. But you're just thinking because I'm gifted at this and I want to

generate revenue at this that, okay, this can be a business and it's not. That's


generating revenue, utilizing your skill.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Like you said, okay, I'm a baker or a painter, so I paint

paintings for people, right? But that's just a one off type thing opposed to

saying, okay, no, I have a business model now to where instead of me painting

people for individuals or whatever the case may be, I may be painting Paintings

or painting stuff or providing paintings to the Marriott or the Hilton or, you

know, all these different things.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: So now you're going to need a business model to be put

in place because of you're going to have more that increases now, you know

what I'm saying? That demand increases. So now you have to put a model in

place, right? You have to put systems, processes in place in order for that to

happen, because You doing it by yourself.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: If the demand is high, you're not going to be able to

keep up with the demand.

ShySpeaks: Right. And one of the things like, you know, you and I talk about

ings you talked about is The [:

team, right? Like getting some type of teammate. We talked about systems and,

and things like that in place, but you probably just need to get another person,


ShySpeaks: So now you have, you went from one restaurant to four restaurants.

Now you probably just need to go ahead and hire an agent. or a manager of

some sort who can reach out to those retirement uh, homes and those senior

living facilities and going back to my earlier example to go ahead and actually

seek that business out for you.

ShySpeaks: So now they become like a marketing arm or an advertising arm.

They're, they're doing sales or some kind of thing like that for you so that you're

not having to do that for yourself. And in, in essence, They may not be your

employee, but you may contract them to go do that to help you expand your

business so you can have more demand.

ShySpeaks: But then that's just that side. But even in the creative side, you may

need to get you a teammate, right? You need somebody who can kind of help

you prep some stuff or something like that. Like, I mean, I'm just trying to help

them out. Like give, give, give us some examples.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: No, like I said, it's that who, not how model.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Once [:

or the solopreneur or whatever, when you're doing, trying to do everything

yourself and thinking you have to do everything yourself because you're not

understanding that, okay, I need to create a business model. It's like, okay, well.

Instead of me trying to figure out how to do this, let me figure out who can I

bring aboard, who can assist me, right?

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Um, and I think me and you talked, we talked about just

the analogy of like Michael Jordan, right? So before Michael Jordan had Scottie

Pippen, before Michael Jordan had Phil Jackson, before he had his trainer, right,

they was getting knocked out of the playoffs early, right? But once he had these

other who's, okay, who do I need in place to assist me on the court?

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Okay, man, we got Scottie Pippen. We got Dennis

Rodman. We got all these other pieces. That's on the court. Okay. Who can I

assist me to get my body to a place to where I can withstand going to Detroit?

Shout out bad boys, right? Who can I assist in me bulking up to where I'm not

beat up and bruised at the end of the season?

we assist that can now look [:

court and see what we need to put in place as far as from a coaching standpoint.

And then we know the history of what happened when that took place. So a lot

of times it's not about the. The, the how to do it, right? It's about who, who do I

need in place? Like you mentioned with your thing.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Okay. If I'm a pastry chef, right. I might, I might need

somebody that I might meet. I might need a sous chef somebody that can help

with preparation. Right. Like you said, I mean, I might need somebody to go out

and get the deals that I need with these assistant living homes or whatever the

case may be, because I don't have the time to do it.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Like you, we want back to what you're saying. There's

only 24 hours in a day. There's only so much time and energy. That I have

personally, individually, right? But once again, when you know, when you

become an entrepreneur or a solopreneur or a creatopreneur, right, there's other

things that you have to do, right?

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: You need somebody that can do the accounting. Right.

You need somebody that can do sales. You need somebody that can do

marketing. Right. So these are who's instead of how, but when you get caught

up in the how, now you're removing yourself from what it is that you were


Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: And then you hate entrepreneurship. Then you like, ah,

I just think what I signed up for. Actually, it is what you signed up for. You was

just trying to do everything yourself because you approached it from a how

instead of a who

ShySpeaks: standpoint. Oh my God. Oh my goodness. Don't hit him with it. It

was what you signed up.

ShySpeaks: You was just trying to do everything yourself being a solopreneur

and not a creative preneur. Okay. Now the cool thing about the mind and my

creative business podcast is the fact that. We're not just going to give opinions

here, right? Ron and I, we have personal experience. I personally, as soon as I

started my creative endeavors, I had to get a booking agent, somebody to help

me, um, manage the incoming bookings and even seek out other opportunities.

ShySpeaks: So I know it personally, but we're not just going to give personal

opinion. Uh, we are going to give facts. So I have a. The statistic that I want to

ot the stats, okay? So based [:

of 101 startups post mortem, and that is after the business failed, right? Post the

business died, okay?

ShySpeaks: So this is an actual reputable study. Study shows that 42% of the

time business fell because there was no market, okay? 29% of the time it failed

because They ran out of cash, but then there was 23% of the time the business

failed because they just did not have the right team. So, the who does matter,


ShySpeaks: It definitely, definitely matters. Now, we talked a lot about the

who, but we, we got to go back to the how, because the how matters as well,

right? That's my side, right? That's, that's the part that I care about because How

a thing runs is also, is just as important as who's running it. Okay. So when I say

that I'm talking about, cause we talked about delegation.

ShySpeaks: [:

There's also automations. Let me give you some examples real quick.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Hold on. Listen, wait a minute. I'm sorry. Like, I want

you to go where you going. Yeah. But I also, I don't want to brush over those

first two stats and I know that I'm going off the script.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Go ahead. I don't want to brush over those first two

stats. The number one stat was the reason why businesses fail is there's no

market, right? And a lot of times as creators, we think because we creators and

we're talented and gifted that people want what it is that we have to offer. And

that's not the case.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: So I just wanted to touch on that, but we got to

definitely deal with that in later episodes. Cause that's going to be huge is being

able to understand that the market is important. And then the other one is they

ain't got no capital. So they ain't got no cashflow. Right? So that's huge, right?


ShySpeaks: 23% was no team.

ShySpeaks: So it's like, yeah, the mother, we're not going to

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: skim over them. Yeah. I mean, you know, so just, but

so back to the, back to the [:

sorry. I just had to, I wanted to just let them know, well, we going to touch your

nose. No, we, we, we, we moving today. But other later episodes, we're going to

touch on it.

ShySpeaks: So go ahead. Right. Cause at the end, we got to keep it rolling.

Cause again, the title of this episode is what is a creativepreneur. So we just try

to make sure that creative entrepreneurs understand that to shift, um, that, that

solopreneur versus that true creativepreneur, uh, kind of has to have the right

people in place in some kind of way.

ShySpeaks: Right. And so I talked about delegation. We now we talk about

batching and automation. These are the things that I love now. Okay, so I love

the pastry example that I'm giving in batching. You see what I did there?

Pastries, batching, a batch of, you get it. Pardon my poetry. Okay, but seriously

speaking, if I'm making pastries for one restaurant, I, I cook this way.

When I'm making pastries for [:

four restaurants, now I have to go and batch it a different way, right? So it's the

same amount of time. But instead of just sliding one pan of baked goods in the

oven, I need to slide like four different pans in there. And if I

ShySpeaks: need to go somewhere where I can actually cook multiple things in

the same amount of time. Because at some point you can't always just like, you

can't create new time. The demand is there, you can't create new time. So if I

have two hours to bake and my oven only holds two batches, I need to go

somewhere else where I can have...

ShySpeaks: More than one stove. Right. So I can slide six pans in there. Right.

So now I'm batching same amount of time and I'm able to supply four different

restaurants in the same amount of time that it took me to do one. I don't know if

y'all understand the beauty of that. That's just

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: right. And that's the thing too.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: A lot of people are like, well, where, where am I going

to go? Right. And we talked about, well, so there may be a commercial kitchen

that you may [:

your space. You don't got to rent it out all day, every day, but just certain times

of the week. Okay. I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to rent this out.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Right. So you, now you're able to do more and yes, you,

you, you, you've created an expense, but be mindful. You've also generated

more revenue because now you're, you, you, you, you're servicing more

businesses with your service or with your product. So, okay. I can justify this

expense now because I have more, the demand has increased.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: I now I need this in order to meet the demand. So it

makes sense.

ShySpeaks: Right. That's batching. Okay. Because the culinary kitchen, they

normally sometimes have two, three, four, five, six, seven stoves in there. So

you can slide multiple things in there in that same amount of time. And that

applies to other things as well.

ShySpeaks: Right? So I've seen painters, they come out, they set up several

canvases, right? I got, I have the, I have enough paint for three, three canvases

in front of me and I'm going boom, boom, boom. Now that's another level of

creativity genius, but. Obviously, we're not doing one by one by one by one


ShySpeaks: I need to do three paintings and I'm going to work three different

concepts at once, right? Looks the same way for content creators. I have, um,

videos to put out. I need to put out 10 videos in a month. So instead of me doing

one video by one video by one video by one video, I am actually going to go

somewhere, sit down, and I'm going to try to go ahead and record all 10 all at


ShySpeaks: You see, that's a different thing. So, batching matters. This is how

you shift, right? I don't want to get too far into the how, but I'm just, because,

because I want to talk about it, but I'm just giving you an example. The how

does matter. There is automation as well. I can get into automation in future

episodes, right?

ShySpeaks: In fact, Yeah, we probably need to do that on the next episode.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what it is. We're gonna go, we're gonna unpack, uh,

automation on the next episode. That's something that I really love, but, but I

just want you to understand that it does, the who does matter and the how does

n approach it in a different [:

how you're doing it.

ShySpeaks: Meet the demand so that you're a true creative entrepreneur or you

need to look at who you need. Now that's enough for right now. We're going to

actually go a little bit further with, um, with explaining what a creative

entrepreneur is. But first, right, but first we got to play these bills and this, and

you want to stick around for this next, uh, these next definitions, because it's


ShySpeaks: Like it gets more in depth, right? Who, who a creative entrepreneur

is, what are these categories and all that kind of stuff. Just give me a second. I, I,

we got to pay these bills. Let's get it.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: What's the irony?

ShySpeaks: It's because it's us in different color clothing. I mean, listen, we've

been doing a lot of talking and we want to make sure that you have an

opportunity to make a statement as well.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Because we've seen people make statements with their

athletic apparel. We've even seen people make statements as entrepreneurs. But

mebody make a statement as a [:

entrepreneur. So, what we've done is we have given you an opportunity to make

a statement as a creative entrepreneur.

ShySpeaks: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Okay. Okay. So, if they want to make sure

that they're rocking that creativepreneur gear, where can they go get that? You

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: can go get that gear from WhatsTheIrony. com

ShySpeaks: I Talked about going to pay these bills normally on these podcasts

people are going to head over to a sponsor look This is episode number one. We

the sponsor. Okay. No, seriously. We want to make sure that you can be the

sponsor seriously by being able to grab your gear. What you get also helps

support the channel, support the podcast.

ShySpeaks: So yes, get your gear. Let's keep it moving around. You ready?

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Yes. So we talked about once again, Who is a creative

entrepreneur? So we want to see those who identify, right? So we talked about

the identity of a [:

categories. All right. So I'm going to give you a couple in this shot.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: I'm going to give you a couple. So let's start number

one, right? The first category of identity for a creative preneur. is artists, right?

So your artists, these are designers, photographers, videographers, writers,

illustrators, calligraphers, right? These people have services that they sell in

order to make money doing what they love.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: All right. Keyword is services that they sell. All right.

Next I have is I have Shakers, right? So your Shakers, these are health and life

coaches, therapists, nutritionists, bloggers. They do activities. They're creative

consultants, right? They use their leadership skills to coach others or share their

message while also making a profit.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Right. So those are your shakers, right?

ShySpeaks: So I like that. Cause then you have artists, they have a service and

then [:

leadership skills. Maybe they're a proprietary, uh, approach to things to like

share a message that then makes a profit. Yeah, at the end of the day, there's a

profit there.

ShySpeaks: Okay. It's a profit for the creative entrepreneur. Okay. So we

talking about who is a creative entrepreneur? Like, am I one? I don't know if I'm

an artist. I don't know if I'm a shaker. Okay. We got two more. So. Okay. It says

there are makers. Let me give you the definition of it. Okay. Makers, florists,

jewelry makers, hatters, painters, clothing designers that make a physical

product with their talent to sell to consumers.

ShySpeaks: Okay. Got that one. And then you have movers. Movers are people

who are like yogis and dancers, musicians, personal trainers, uh, creative store

owners. They use their creative talent and training, right, to make a living with

their [:

there's several layers of several different, a full variety of people from designers

to florists to musicians to Trainers to life coaches to creative consultants that

fall and fit within this creative entrepreneur space.

ShySpeaks: But let me go back and make it clear a maker. They're selling a

physical product. A mover is taking their creative talents. Plus they're training

and using that to make a living off of their skills. Okay. Then Ron talked about

the artists. And the shakers. Artists are selling the service, shakers, leadership

skills, proprietary process, messaging, and all that kind of stuff to make a profit.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Exactly. No, and my wife, she would always say, she

was like, cause I'm, I'm, I'm a coach. Right. So that's one of my creative

businesses is a coach. And she was like, but all your clients are not like

creatives in her [:

once again, when I gave her the definition and said, no, it's not just limited to

artsy creatives is limited to once again, creatives as a whole to where.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Once again, we just gave you that list. So then she was

able to see it clear, like one of, like one, like, like one of my clients is a, they,

they have a nonprofit. She has a nonprofit called Dove Networks. And her

mission is she wants to eradicate the effects and this domestic violence period,

right? She wants to get rid of domestic violence and eradicate its effects, right?

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: So she's created a nonprofit, um, but she identifies as a

creative entrepreneur or creative entrepreneur because this is something that.

She's had this idea, this passion, going back to the definition, passion and

mission and purpose. Right. And then she's created this nonprofit. So though,

it's a, a nonprofit business model, it's still a business model around something

that she's part that she's passionate and purposeful

ShySpeaks: about.

ShySpeaks: And I would imagine she takes her leadership skills and she has

some type of creative [:

it. Definitely. And she's a shaker because she's out here moving and shaking

with people who need to be, whether they're in the political space or people who

are just from the healing space, people, whenever, whatever space she's working

with those people and bringing them all together to help do a thing, like, That's


Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: cool.

ShySpeaks: Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Now. Okay. So I, I say that we see

this oftentimes when we talk about, um, shakers, we see that with, uh, like the

health professionals more often. So when we, when we're talking to creative

entrepreneurs and you're telling them like, no, you can be a creative

entrepreneur and actually like, not just be a solo artist.

ShySpeaks: I mean, you can get this thing going. And you can develop a whole

world around just your, it's kind of hard for their minds to wrap around it, but

with the health space, I see like Dr. Oz. Right. Dr. Oz. Uh, there's another lady.

, she was the green smoothie [:

thing because she started realizing that just these green juices, which is what her

creative approach is not super duper culinary, but it's her creative approach to

how she's combining these foods.

ShySpeaks: She's blending it up a certain way and she's noticing that it has a

certain effect. She puts people on a 10 day green smoothie, uh, cleanse. And at

the end you'll be, you'll have lost all this weight. That's her approach. So now

she becomes what a shaker and she's a creative entrepreneur because now she's

selling this in books She has she's in media.

ShySpeaks: She's on podcast talking about it. So so does dr. Oz he's on media

TV shows Books all that type all that stuff is writing, right? That's kind of a

creative thing like media This is like entertainment and all that kind of stuff. So

we see Shakers. Cause you're like, man, shakers, they don't really sound like

Creative Entrepreneurs.

ShySpeaks: Yeah. Dr. Oz, that's, he's a doctor, but he's not selling at this point,

s a doctor. He's selling his [:

and wellness space, packaging it. With creative things like media and books

and, and coaching and all that kind of stuff to achieve a personal mission that is

creativity people.

ShySpeaks: So I'm just saying, if you want to know what that looks like, you

can look right there.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: No, that's, that's, that's, that's it. That's it. We, when we

was talking earlier, we talked about my brother, Jason Wilson, same thing,

right. Where, um, and even him, I've seen him like kind of go through the

process. Like you may start at one of these things, right.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: And then you may move to another one. You may, you

may actually do all four, right. Um, you're not, you're not limited, right. I mean,

as a coach, I tell people to kind of niche down, but. Just because you niche

down on me, you got to stay in that niche. But I've seen Jason, when I first met

Jason, he had a ceramic tile company, right?

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: So he was providing the service, right? He would go in,

create the design, but then he'd go in and lay it down. He provided a service.

hip hop label, right? So now [:

creating a product. So we went from the service piece, the artist, then to the, uh,

what, what's, what's the other one?

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Um, uh, maker. He went to the maker to where now

we're making music. We're making product. We make CDs. Some of those CDs

on the wall back there, right? Mm-hmm. . Um, and then he went from that to a

nonprofit organization now, right? So where now he's the shaker. So he has a

nonprofit. He, he has, he's written two books, right?

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Mm-hmm. , he has his, uh, academy. So he, they have a

documentary out on him, so it's like, you know, you can be in those different,

but I've seen 'em matriculate through the different phases and whatnot. Yeah.

So, right.

ShySpeaks: And I'm happy when we're giving these examples. Cause again,

when I talk to my friends sometimes who are creative renewers and they're

maybe at the entry level where they're still in that solo, uh, preneur space and

they are doing the thing kind of like what we talked about at the beginning of

the episode where the guy was like, they're, they're a technician or an artist, you

they, but they haven't like [:


ShySpeaks: They're still doing it. They don't see themselves as being able to

have A big business. They see business as like this big thing, this big, but like it

can literally start with your creativity, right? So, okay. So I want to bring up

when we say, man, I've been working with some of the biggest brands most of

the time because of the way society is.

ShySpeaks: That means I'm working with big businesses like, uh, Apple and

Facebook and Samsung and Nike. And you're thinking big brand. When you

think of those things, you really think big business. The thing I love about brand

though, being tied to business, is that you personally can have a brand, right?

You as an artist can have a personal brand, and as it grows and scales, it can

become big business.

ShySpeaks: How do we know? Ask Walt Disney. Let's talk about it. Yeah.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Nah, listen. Walt Disney is the epitome of a creative

freneur, [:

had a vision for what he wanted to do. So he went from being a cartoonist to

creating a business model and he employs other cartoonists, right?

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: He literally... isn't the one who does the drawings. I

mean, obviously he's long gone by now, but even back then, he wasn't the one

doing all the drawings, right? He was able to employ other artists. He was able

to employ other people to get stories so that they could build the things from.

Then he went to amusement park.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Then they went to merchandising, like all these things,

but it started from this one person who had this gift and this talent and skill as a

cartoonist, right? But then he wanted to be a creative penur. And then he took

that and created a business model. And when you think of Disney, you now

think of a lot of things.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: You think of Marvel now. They were able to acquire

Marvel. You think of Pixar. They were able to acquire Pixar. You know what

I'm saying? Like ESPN. They [:

what I'm saying? So... Yeah, it's, it's when we,

ShySpeaks: and all the time when we think of Disney, we think big business

Disney, but Disney is a part, it was Walt Disney, it was a person who was a

creative, who decided to be a creative entrepreneur.

ShySpeaks: Like that is,

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: ooh. Yeah. Yeah. No, and that's, and that's, and it's

really that simple. Right. Now, mind you, you may say, well, I don't want to be

like Disney. I don't want to be that big. You want to be, I'm going to be smaller.

Um, I say that, but that's the beauty of it is like being a creative manure, you can

create what it is that you want.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: If you want it to be big. Oh, it can be big. If you want it

to be small, it can be small. While we just saying is right. We will help you

identify what it is. Right. So that you can be clear on what, so then you can have

a level of intention behind it. Right. That's, that's like my, that's been my word

for the past, like five to 10 years of being intentional.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: As you're intentional, you know what I'm saying? Then

you can [:

results. So as a creative preneur, when you start identifying as a creative

preneur, now you're saying, Oh, okay. This is who I am. So as a result of this

being who I am, this is what I do.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: And because this is what I do, these are the results that I

should expect.

ShySpeaks: Oh, this is good. This is good. Oh my goodness. I almost don't

want to wrap it up because we don't want to keep the, we don't want the podcast

to be too long. That's one of the things you can expect here on the mind and my

creative business podcast.

ShySpeaks: This is still episode number one. So we want to make sure we lay

precedence on what you can expect. But listen, what? What Ron was just

saying, bro, what you were just saying was so loaded because it can go as big or

as small or however you want it to go. Especially if you're willing to embrace a

a business system around it [:


ShySpeaks: Figure out who I need. Do I need other cartoonists? Cause I can

only draw so much if I'm Walt Disney and I'm trying to make these characters

and these characters and I need this show and I need some other people. Or do I

need writers and illustrators? Like what do I need? You see, I need, I need

music people to put behind the cartoons.

ShySpeaks: And so. You can really go as you begin to build a business model

around it. That part was so good. Okay. Listen, I, I, I, I gotta say this because,

uh, when we talk about big and small, that is big and small. It's kind of like, it

depends on what you look at, how you look at it. Cause I wouldn't say as big or


ShySpeaks: I'm gonna say this before we get out of here. Listen, listen, listen.

In this, um, in this example that I talked about earlier, with pastries and all that

to start selling pastries to [:

restaurant, four restaurants, five senior living homes. People's like, well, that

means I just own the business and I don't do anything.

ShySpeaks: Who says? Walt Disney, before he passed, he probably still drew

some stuff. He probably was still a cartoonist. He probably still provide who's to

say. That you can't do it at all. That doesn't mean that you no longer have the

technical skill, that you are not an artisan, you know, an artesian, you know, you

can still do the thing.

ShySpeaks: So in this example that this person was given earlier, who I said it

was an online guru, and he talked about the fact that this person was so

committed to being the person to do it when he's so committed, he was talking

about being a bottleneck. As long as you're not willing to be the bottleneck,

meaning I can only produce the amount of.

ShySpeaks: Whatever I'm creating, that's the only demand I can meet. He said

that there was a guy, he make wallets, genuine leather wallets, super custom and

all that kind of stuff. He said in order for him to be an entrepreneur, he would

lets and start managing the, [:

I feel like it could be a both and, and especially when you're talking about being

a creative entrepreneur.

ShySpeaks: So we talk about, for example, uh, Kanye West who's an artist, but

he then also produces for other people and he had a label. He didn't have to stop

being an art artist in order to start a label. He was still able to help them, but that

didn't mean every now and then that he can't do his own artistry and get his own

message out.

ShySpeaks: So who's to say that? Going back to this wallet, this is what I

would tell the online guru. So yes, if he makes 10 wallets a month, And he's

given all his time and effort to doing that. And that's his cap. He's bottleneck

right there. You will never get to the point where you can sell a hundred. I got


ShySpeaks: You're right. You'll never get to the hundred because you can only

make 10 a month. But what he could do is bring in two other people, teach them

their way, teach them his ways. They can make 10, right? So now he's making

, right? He can then hire. [:

making a hundred, but that doesn't mean, and he's overseeing them, but that

doesn't mean that he doesn't make time, that he still does the thing, right?

ShySpeaks: He still makes the wallets or whatever. So I think it can be a both

and, but you will definitely have to spend some time focusing on that

entrepreneurial endeavor if you are a creative entrepreneur. That's all I have.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: And that it can be a season. It doesn't have to be forever,

but that's the beauty of it.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: If you're building a business model around it, you can

see, okay, where do I want to be? Like, yes, I encourage you to remove yourself

out of it so you can work on it. That's a whole other concept, right? We're

working on the business instead of in it because working in it, you're not going

to see things.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Right, but move yourself out so you can work on it,

have people working in it, and then when you are working on it enough and you

know whatever, then you can bring somebody else to work on it, right, so you

and then you can say, okay, [:

to do? Where do I want to go? Do I want to get back in and make the, the, the

wildest using that analogy?

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: All right. Or do I want to do something else? Like, Oh, I

learned, I liked this facet of, of my business. So here, let me work in here, but

the business isn't contingent or dependent upon you being in whatever that place

is, right? Because once again, because you have systems you have, um, you've

built a model around it, but once you have it to a certain place, you choose what

you want to do.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: And that's the beauty.

ShySpeaks: Okay. Listen, we kind of bleeding into the next episode because

the next, this episode was really supposed to be what is a creative entrepreneur.

The next episode is how to go from creator to CEO. Yep. So we only, we only

hit the tip of the iceberg. So if you have identified in this episode that, yeah, I'm

a creative entrepreneur and you're like, okay, now I need to embrace the, the

mindset to be like a founder of a company and like, I need to know, okay, what

all other things, Shy talked about automation and batching and listen, you want

to be in on [:

ShySpeaks: For being in on this episode. Thank you so much. So much for

listening. Ron, you got some other stuff you want to thank them about? Yeah,

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: no, listen, like you said, thank y'all for being here. You

could have chose to listen to any other podcast, but you chose to rock with us,

MMCB. The Minding My Creative Business

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: podcast. We also want to invite you guys to be a part of

the community that we've created, right? So if you go to mmcbpodcast. com,

you can sign up for our Creatives Corner newsletter. Which also invites you to

our Facebook community, right? So where it's a private community with other

creative preneurs like yourself, myself, and Shy, right?

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: That are there to help us to grow and build and develop

as creative preneurs as we're on this journey. Because listen, I don't know about

y'all, but this journey sometimes It can be interesting, but for lack of a better

word. It can be interesting,

ShySpeaks: and you need [:


ShySpeaks: So maybe we're talking about structure heavy, and you're like,

okay, I'm really working on instructor, but I'm a creative and how my mind is,

and I really want to do it. You could find somebody in the community to work

through that with. Maybe strategy, you can find somebody in the community

who's working through that.

ShySpeaks: So it's just really a cool place to work on self development. Do it

all with somebody. People who are not just entrepreneurs. And it's different, it's

different, different businesses, it's a whole different model when it's not good.

You can work with specific people who are creatives, like network with them,

talk to them.

ShySpeaks: And, uh, of course we got some perks and all that kind of stuff that

we'll be dropping in the community. And of course the newsletter will just feed

you, it'll enrich you and give you that motivation that you need to keep going.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Exactly. So listen, don't delay, go on, go to the website.

Be a part of that creative, uh, community or creative corner, the newsletter and

the community.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: And I mean, that's it, that's all I got. I mean,

s: right. So the way you get [:

you're going to head over to mmcbpodcast. com, mmcbpodcast.

ShySpeaks: com. And there, you're going to find an area that says creatives

corner, get signed up so you can stay plugged in. Oh, this is gonna be good. I'm

so excited. This is episode run one run. How do you feel? No, I

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: feel good. I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm excited. Listen, y'all don't

know what it took for us to get here, right?

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: When we talk about this creative renewal journey and

how it's interesting. It's definitely taken us a lot to get to this point. So the fact

that we're at episode one and our goal is to hit episode a thousand or whatever

the case may be, but just to get to this one, it's been a journey, but we here and

we ain't going nowhere.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Most high will in no time. So,

ShySpeaks: right. And we want to make sure that you understand that each


ShySpeaks: the people who are six, seven, and even eight figure earners. So the

people who are at the height of their creative entrepreneur endeavors, we're

going to have you to have access to them. We're going to ask them questions

about their strategy, about their structure, what things that they do to develop

into this.

ShySpeaks: Listen, you're going to be able to get it right here on the, but now

sometimes it'll be Ron and I, and we're going to talk, I talk, right. But other

times we are going to have, like, I'm so excited about the guests. Like I'm ready

to like, start asking. We're not asking those basic questions. We're going in

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: and out.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: We want to know how you got there. You know what

I'm saying? Like what, what steps you had to take, what mentality you have to

have, right? All the things. So, yeah, no, we ain't. What was the strategy?

ShySpeaks: What was the campaign exactly? Go ahead. I'm

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: sorry. Go ahead. No, you good? No, that's

ShySpeaks: it. Tell what was the campaign?

ShySpeaks: No. Okay. What was your, what did your back office look like?

id you hire the next person? [:

Okay. When did you contract out that? Right. Okay. What systems did you,

what tool were you using? What was the software? I'm talking, we're going,

we're going to be going. And so again, today, what is a creative entrepreneur?

ShySpeaks: We made sure that you understood the definition. You understand

that there are artists, makers, movers, and shakers. We hopefully, hopefully that

helped you the way it helped us. And of course we kind of leaned into the next

episode and that is the creator, the CEO model, but you want to be in on the

next episode.

ShySpeaks: That's all I have to say so far about all of this.

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: That's it. So until next time.

ShySpeaks: Yeah. Hold on a quick. Listen, we got something we want to do

before we get out of here. Every time, every episode I have something that I

want them to say. I said this is all I wanted to say, but this, we have to say this

at the end of every episode because it's a bit of a mantra for the creative


ShySpeaks: Okay. So I want y'all to say this out loud with me. Okay. So I want

you to say [:

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: all it takes

ShySpeaks: is intention

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: is intention. Consistency. Consistency.

ShySpeaks: And laser focus to

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: mind. Laser focus to mind my creative business.

ShySpeaks: There it is. All it takes is intensity, intention, consistency, and laser

focus to mind my creative business.

ShySpeaks: We don't say that at the end of episode, every episode, every time.

All right. My name is Shy Speaks. I've enjoyed being your host. I am

Ron "Ironic" Lee Jr.: Ron iRonic Lee and I enjoyed being your host as well.

ShySpeaks: And we are out.