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Sleep Debt: Can We Ever Pay It Back? with Dr. Michael Breus
Bonus Episode1st January 2026 • The Iconic Midlife with Roxy Manning • Roxy Manning
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You can’t make up for lost sleep, and that’s the cold, hard truth we’ve unraveled in this episode. We dive deep into the myths and realities surrounding sleep, tackling everything from the infamous eight-hour myth to the surprising truths about melatonin and blue light. With a mix of personal anecdotes and expert insights, we explore how our sleep patterns shift, especially for those of us navigating the wild world of midlife. Plus, we sprinkle in some light-hearted games to keep things lively while we bust those sleep-related myths wide open. So grab your favorite cozy blanket and settle in, because we’re about to uncover what it really takes to catch those elusive Zs!

This episode embarks on a journey through the often misunderstood realm of sleep, tackling the plethora of myths that cloud our understanding of this essential human need. The hosts set the stage with a relatable narrative about the struggles of new parenthood, where sleep becomes a rare currency. They humorously recount their own sleepless nights, creating a sense of camaraderie with listeners who have faced similar challenges. The discussion quickly pivots to debunking the myth that one can 'make up' for lost sleep, emphasizing that while we may long for those extra hours, the reality is that our bodies are not designed to repay sleep debt. Instead, they suggest a more flexible approach to sleep duration, citing research that indicates a range of seven to nine hours may be optimal for most, a revelation that encourages listeners to rethink their nightly routines.

As the conversation deepens, the hosts explore the role of various aids in achieving restful sleep. They approach the topic of melatonin with caution, warning against its overuse and the potential for negative interactions with medications. The dialogue takes a humorous turn as they dissect the effects of alcohol and cannabis on sleep, highlighting the importance of moderation. They delve into cannabis's complexities, discussing how the balance of THC and CBD can influence sleep quality, and advocating for a thoughtful approach to its use. This segment is rich with insights, delivered in an engaging manner that blends scientific discussion with light-hearted banter, making the material accessible and enjoyable.

The episode concludes with a lively game segment designed to distinguish between sleep myths and must-dos, keeping listeners engaged while reinforcing the core messages discussed. The hosts leave their audience with a sense of hope, asserting that midlife insomnia is not an insurmountable challenge. They advocate for cognitive behavioral therapy as a viable solution, emphasizing that with the right strategies, individuals can reclaim their sleep without resorting to medication. This episode is a treasure trove of knowledge, humor, and practical advice for anyone seeking to improve their sleep quality and overall well-being.

Takeaways:

  • The idea that you can make up for lost sleep is a total myth, folks.
  • Most parents lose a staggering amount of sleep in the first few years of raising kids.
  • Believe it or not, melatonin might not be the sleep savior you think it is.
  • Cannabis can help with sleep, but the THC content matters more than you might realize.
  • Quality of sleep should take precedence over the quantity, so prioritize restful nights.
  • Midlife insomnia isn't just something you have to endure; there are effective methods to tackle it.

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Transcripts

Roxy Manning:

You can't make up for lost sleep.

Dr. Michael Breus:

Anybody out there who's listening? Who had kids come on the first year that they were born? How much sleep did you get?

Roxy Manning:

Zero.

Dr. Michael Breus:

Almost none.

Roxy Manning:

Right, Right. Everyone should aim for eight hours of sleep a night.

Dr. Michael Breus:

Wrong. Eight hours is a myth. Well, one thing we haven't talked about is cannabis.

Roxy Manning:

Oh, right. What do you. Yeah. What do you think about that? Everybody should come see you if they're having sleep issues. I mean, everybody lining up.

So on the iconic midlife, we always like to end the show with a game if you're up for it.

Dr. Michael Breus:

Sure. Let's go.

Roxy Manning:

All right, so this game segment is called Sleep myth or must do. So myth is totally false. And a must do is, like, for sure it's happening.

Dr. Michael Breus:

All right, got it.

Roxy Manning:

Number one, melatonin is the best fix for insomnia.

Dr. Michael Breus:

False. Terrible idea. Do not use so melatonin. So a lot of people don't know that melatonin has interaction effects.

Did you know that melatonin affects birth control?

Roxy Manning:

No, I did not know that.

Dr. Michael Breus:

I know. Nobody does. Did you know melatonin also affects blood pressure medication, diabetes medication, and antidepressants?

I would gather that of your listening audience, probably 50% are on one of those four things. And when you take melatonin, they are now ineffective. So I'm not a fan.

I use melatonin in my patients for jet lag, for shift work, and for something called REM behavior disorder. That's it.

Roxy Manning:

That's it. Oof. That's good to know. Thank you. Number two, blue light is the biggest threat to good sleep.

Dr. Michael Breus:

False. So the data on blue light is. It's not great. Here's what I'll tell you is more important.

It's not so much that you got blue light coming from your screen at night. It's that you're trying to get your high score on Candy Crush and you're not trying to go to bed. Okay. Like, it's about the engagement level.

It's about, what are you doing? It's not about. I mean, to be fair, you don't want to lie in a.

In, you know, your bedroom with every single light on, you know, at 11 o' clock at night and think you're going to be able to fall asleep. But at the end of the day, blue light's not going to cure. Lack of blue light is not going to cure your insomnia. Your behaviors probably will.

And I, I would argue that the timing of when you get your blue light, as in right before bed, is probably not the best.

Roxy Manning:

Not the best. Okay, number three, magnesium before bed can help women over 40 fall asleep faster.

Dr. Michael Breus:

So there is some data to suggest that that is true. I have seen that with that upgraded formulas magnesium, we did find that people fell asleep faster and they actually slept deeper.

So I would argue that, yes, that is probably true.

Roxy Manning:

That's correct. Okay, number five, you can't make up for lost sleep.

Dr. Michael Breus:

That is correct. You cannot make up for lost sleep. But you don't have to. Your body absorbs it and your body knows what to do with it. Think about it like this.

Anybody out there who's listening, who had kids, come on. The first year that they were born, how much sleep did you get?

Roxy Manning:

Zero.

Dr. Michael Breus:

Almost done.

Roxy Manning:

Right, Right.

Dr. Michael Breus:

Like, I mean, we look at. I mean, I think there's a statistic that, like, within the first four years of a child's life, the parents lose approximately a year of sleep.

And so if we really had a sleep debt, like, we would be in forever payment of it. Like, we'd never make it up. Like, it's. It would be literally impossible to make up.

So I don't want people to wander around thinking, like, hey, I'm going to, you know, sleep in on the weekends. I'm going to do any of that stuff. No, bad idea.

Roxy Manning:

Okay. Bad idea. Okay. Everyone should aim for eight hours of sleep a night.

Dr. Michael Breus:

Wrong. Eight hours is a myth. I, um, Very few people need exactly eight hours.

What we would now say is somewhere between seven and nine is really the new eight. Um, I don't. Almost none of my patients get more than seven hours, and I don't have any problems with it whatsoever.

Roxy Manning:

Oh, good to know.

Dr. Michael Breus:

Okay.

Roxy Manning:

Drinking wine helps you fall asleep faster.

Dr. Michael Breus:

Uh, that is true. It does. However, it gives you rotten quality sleep. So, yes, it does make you fall asleep faster, but no, you do not want to do it.

Roxy Manning:

So you would say go for quality over quantity of sleep every single day. Okay.

Dr. Michael Breus:

And twice on Sundays.

Roxy Manning:

There we go. If you snore, it's probably just annoying and not dangerous.

Dr. Michael Breus:

No, it is probably sleep apnea. And it's definitely something that you want to look into. So once again, I can't push this button enough. If you or your bed partner are doing this.

Look, the test is 200 bucks. It's probably covered by your insurance. Just go do it. Right. Go to my website. We'll put a link in here to get people there. No problem.

Roxy Manning:

Okay. You should go to bed and wake up at the exact same time every day. Even on the weekends.

Dr. Michael Breus:

It would be great I would love that. That would be my formal recommendation. But I'm not so foolish as to think that people will actually do that.

But again, if only you took half of that recommendation and just woke up at the same time every day, I'd be happy.

Roxy Manning:

How much sleep do you get a night, by the way?

Dr. Michael Breus:

I sleep between six and a half and seven hours a night. I haven't had any coffee today, it's 12 o'. Clock. This is my normal energy level. I'm 57 years old. This is me.

It's not hard if you take good care of yourself. Here's the thing.

If you regularly get six and a half to seven hours of sleep every single night, if then one night you only get five hours, your body doesn't care. Your body will snap back just like this. It's the person who has irregular sleep and then has a really terrible night.

That's when everything goes off the rails.

Roxy Manning:

And do you drink or no?

Dr. Michael Breus:

Do I drink alcohol? Yeah, I mean, I'm not a big drinker. I'm not one to like have a cocktail when I come home.

But like if there's football and there are friends over, sure, I'll have a beer.

Roxy Manning:

Okay. And so it's like very, very moderate. So it's not affecting your sleep as much. Okay.

Dr. Michael Breus:

Yeah. Well, one thing we haven't talked about is cannabis.

Roxy Manning:

Oh, right. You know, what do you. Yeah, what do you think about that?

Dr. Michael Breus:

So I'm not, I'm a pro cannabis. I don't have any problems with cannabis.

But people need to be thoughtful because remember, high levels of thc, which is the main psychoactive substance in cannabis. This increases your heart rate and lowers REM sleep, two things we don't like.

So if you're going to use cannabis, you want to have very small amounts of thc, right. You don't want to get stoned and go to bed, just like you don't want to get drunk and go to bed. Right.

If you're going to use cannabis as a medicine, then use it as a medicine. Have a nice small dose. And the thing you're looking for is cbn, as in nighttime.

That is the constituent inside of cannabis that at least has got two studies to show that it lowers arousals and awakenings in the middle of the night.

Roxy Manning:

Okay, that's interesting because you do see those sleep gummies with the different levels of like THC and to.

Dr. Michael Breus:

Okay, you want the lowest level of THC and the higher level of cbn.

Roxy Manning:

Cbn. Okay. And that will keep you asleep for the night, Correct? Correct. Okay, last one. Midlife insomnia is something you, you just have to live with.

Dr. Michael Breus:

No, I don't, I don't agree with that. I mean, my most popular video right now walks through some of the, like the 4, 7, 8 breathing we were talking about and those type of things.

The answer is no, you don't have to live with it. There are definitely solutions. Cognitive behavioral therapy is one. I'm a cognitive behavioral therapist.

So as an example, if somebody comes to see me and we discover that they've got some form of insomnia, it usually takes me between eight and 10 weeks, 30 minutes each. Each week I've got them fixed. No drugs. Almost every time.

Roxy Manning:

That's great. Well, everybody should come see you if they're having sleep issues.

Dr. Michael Breus:

I mean, I don't know about that. I'm not sure I want everybody to.

Roxy Manning:

Come and see me. Everybody lining up.

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