CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:00

I had the boys at 6:30 AM and at 10:30 AM the paediatrician

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:04

came to see Mark and myself.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:06

The midwife had come sooner than that, but Mark was out making the phone calls

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:10

and she said, Oh, I'll come back."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:11

And I just knew something wasn't right.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:14

And so the paediatrician came back and he said, "Twin one"- who

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:18

we'd called Oliver- "is fine."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:20

And at that point you just think "There's a but, I knew it.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:22

What's gone wrong?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:24

And he said "Twin two, Harry, has been born with what we think

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:28

is called Goldenhar syndrome.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:31

So for him, he's got no eye, no eye socket, no ear, no nostril, a short,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:36

underdeveloped jaw on his left hand side.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:39

We think he'll have brain damage, and it's unlikely that he'll ever walk."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:43

And I remember the doctor, I remember him drawing a line down the centre of his

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:47

face and sweeping his hand to the left as if he was erasing everything there.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:52

And after that, most of what he said sounded like it was underwater.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:00:56

I just, my brain just couldn't really comprehend much other than that, I

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:01:01

just, yeah, went into complete shock.

VIKKI: 00:01:04

Having a baby is meant to be the most joyful time of your life.

VIKKI: 00:01:09

But for many mums and dads it can be the hardest and at

VIKKI: 00:01:13

times the darkest of places.

VIKKI: 00:01:17

Welcome to Season 2 of Blue MumDays, the podcast for anyone

VIKKI: 00:01:21

struggling with parenting.

VIKKI: 00:01:23

All the stories shared here are from the heart.

VIKKI: 00:01:26

These are real conversations and may be triggering, so

VIKKI: 00:01:29

please listen with discretion.

VIKKI: 00:01:32

Today's episode covers feelings of suicide and birth trauma.

VIKKI: 00:01:37

We will also signpost you to help in the show notes.

VIKKI: 00:01:41

This episode was recorded during the spring of 2022.

VIKKI: 00:01:47

Charlie Beswick is mum to 16 year old twins, Oliver and Harry.

VIKKI: 00:01:52

Harry was born with a rare craniofacial condition and is also autistic.

VIKKI: 00:01:57

Charlie is the author of bestselling book, 'Our Altered Life'.

VIKKI: 00:02:01

It's a brutally honest account of how she came to terms with the life she

VIKKI: 00:02:04

never expected and often resented.

VIKKI: 00:02:08

She's also a mentor to other mums who find themselves with an altered life.

VIKKI: 00:02:13

In addition, she's an award-winning blogger and her family's story

VIKKI: 00:02:16

has featured internationally on Sky TV and in national press.

VIKKI: 00:02:22

Charlie is also the founder of the charity 'More Than a Face', where

VIKKI: 00:02:25

she educates young people on facial disfigurement and visible difference.

VIKKI: 00:02:29

Welcome to Blue MumDays Charlie, how are you today?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:02:33

I am good.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:02:33

I am delighted to be with you.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:02:35

Thank you.

VIKKI: 00:02:36

Thank you so much.

VIKKI: 00:02:37

I remember coming across your story on I think LinkedIn and

VIKKI: 00:02:40

just finding it so moving.

VIKKI: 00:02:42

I think you'd put a post out about the work you were doing with schools

VIKKI: 00:02:46

in terms of educating children around others with visible differences.

VIKKI: 00:02:50

And I just think it's something that is often taboo and children

VIKKI: 00:02:55

don't have filters sometimes in terms of what they, they see or

VIKKI: 00:03:00

their curiosity about somebody.

VIKKI: 00:03:02

And I think it's incredible work you are doing to educate them on, you know,

VIKKI: 00:03:06

speaking to people with sensitivity and also understanding disabilities

VIKKI: 00:03:11

and disfigurements and related issues.

VIKKI: 00:03:15

So it's an absolute honor to have you on today.

VIKKI: 00:03:17

Thank you for joining us.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:03:19

Thank you very much for inviting me.

VIKKI: 00:03:20

I was just thinking, first of all, if we could just talk a little

VIKKI: 00:03:23

bit about what your life was like before you had your twins and, and

VIKKI: 00:03:27

what you were like as a person?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:03:29

Sure I was a perfectionist.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:03:32

Very driven, very focused.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:03:35

Yeah, I got a first class degree, as a mature student, if you can call 21 mature!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:03:40

I did

VIKKI: 00:03:40

Oh, wow!

VIKKI: 00:03:41

, CHARLIE BESWICK: I'm not quite sure

VIKKI: 00:03:44

But technically I was!

VIKKI: 00:03:45

So yeah, I've always applied myself really well, given the very best of, of who I am.

VIKKI: 00:03:51

One of my mantras is to sort of make the people that I love proud of me.

VIKKI: 00:03:55

That's a little bit of a hangover from a childhood where I strived to make people

VIKKI: 00:04:00

happy, um, and proud, during a particular sort of challenge of growing up with, um,

VIKKI: 00:04:06

difficult parenting and things like that.

VIKKI: 00:04:08

So that's a legacy that I live with.

VIKKI: 00:04:10

So striving to be the very best, to do the very best and to make

VIKKI: 00:04:14

people around me really proud.

VIKKI: 00:04:16

I wanted to be a teacher or involved in child development in some

VIKKI: 00:04:21

capacity, so I did a psychology degree and as I say, was super,

VIKKI: 00:04:25

super focused on making a difference.

VIKKI: 00:04:27

That was always the plan for me.

VIKKI: 00:04:29

So you've always had sort of purpose at the core of what you do?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:04:33

Yes, definitely, definitely.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:04:35

And that purpose has, it's shifted- it, you know, manifests in a

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:04:39

different way now- but it's still very much around making a difference.

VIKKI: 00:04:43

So when you found out you were pregnant, did you know immediately

VIKKI: 00:04:46

that you were expecting twins?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:04:49

No!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:04:49

I was about five weeks pregnant, so it was very early and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:04:55

had quite a lot of hip pain.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:04:57

And so the doctor sent me for an early scan in case it was an ectopic pregnancy.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:02

And the sonographer, if that's the right word, I'm not sure!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:05

She said "It looks like there could be two, but I'm not sure."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:10

And so I told my partner at the time and he just said, "Oh, no way.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:13

It will just be a fluke, it won't be twins".

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:15

And so I went back two weeks later and clear as day, we've got two

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:19

little sacks, two thumping heartbeats.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:21

And I rang him from outside the hospital and I just said, "They're waving!"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:24

And he said, "Oh brilliant.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:25

What they?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:26

Wait, what?!"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:27

So yeah seven weeks -ridiculously early to be finding out that we were having twins.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:32

But it just meant the excitement started a bit sooner for us.

VIKKI: 00:05:35

Did you have like twins in the family?

VIKKI: 00:05:37

Was there a family history?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:39

So my nan's mum, was one of twins, I think, along that side.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:44

But nothing that made us question that we'd be next, certainly.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:48

And my boys are non-identical, so that is because I released two eggs.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:52

So that is the hereditary part of twins.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:05:56

Anybody can have identical twins, which I didn't realise before I had my boys.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:00

So yes, it's in the genes somewhere, but we didn't expect it.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:04

It was a total surprise.

VIKKI: 00:06:05

And what was your emotion when you found out?

VIKKI: 00:06:08

Because for some people it's an absolute delight, you know, 'instant family'.

VIKKI: 00:06:13

For other people I can imagine it's very overwhelming.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:15

Yeah I burst into tears once we found out.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:18

Just the whole processing of twice the expense, twice the sleep

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:24

deprivation, twice the feeding, just the logistics I think.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:28

But once we got our heads around that and it didn't take long, we were super,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:32

super excited and everybody that I told just said, "Well, if anybody's

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:36

gonna have twins, it's going to be you.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:38

You don't do jobs by halves.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:40

You know, this has got, you written all over it!"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:43

So it became quite the joke that of any of my friends or colleagues,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:46

it would be me to have twins.

VIKKI: 00:06:48

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:06:48

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:06:49

That's a pressure in itself though, isn't it?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:52

Yes.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:52

No, it definitely is.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:54

And I will say one of the things I found really strange about having twins

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:06:56

is the amount of people that asked me if it was IVF or natural conception.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:07:01

And I remember saying to somebody, um, a receptionist- she probably got

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:07:05

the brunt of this because it was like the 20th time I'd been asked- and I

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:07:08

said, "Do I ask you if you pay your car outright or if you need finance?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:07:13

Said, "it's nothing to do with me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:07:14

Why is my fertility such an issue?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:07:16

And I just found it quite invasive that people felt that they could

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:07:21

ask such a personal question.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:07:23

So that really opened my eyes to the kind of comments and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:07:26

mindset around twins, I think.

VIKKI: 00:07:29

Yeah, I've not had multiple births, but I can imagine that

VIKKI: 00:07:35

it's something that- you know, for any mums listening out there

VIKKI: 00:07:38

that have been through multiple births and pregnancies- that that.

VIKKI: 00:07:42

really resonates, because it's something that you don't even think about, you

VIKKI: 00:07:45

know, people making comments like that.

VIKKI: 00:07:47

And I was having a chat with somebody the other day for another episode, and we

VIKKI: 00:07:51

were just talking about how when you're pregnant, it's almost like you become

VIKKI: 00:07:55

public property and people touch your body or make comments about your body shape.

VIKKI: 00:08:00

You know, "the bump's too big, the bump's too small, ooh aren't

VIKKI: 00:08:03

you" this, that or the other.

VIKKI: 00:08:04

And actually, that's quite a lot for the mum to take in when

VIKKI: 00:08:09

your hormones are raging anyway.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:11

Absolutely.

VIKKI: 00:08:11

H ow did you find your pregnancy?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:15

Great.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:16

It was a really healthy pregnancy.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:18

I had a scare around 10 weeks, had a little bleed.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:21

But we were reassured everything was fine.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:24

I had no strange cravings other than cereal and milk - I remember just wanting

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:29

to drink copious amounts of milk and yeah, it was a really great pregnancy actually.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:34

I felt amazing.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:36

I felt really healthy, really took care of myself.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:40

And about 28 weeks into the pregnancy I started to lose

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:45

fluid around one of the babies.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:46

So I was put on bedrest in hospital.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:48

That was a bit of a scary period of time because I'm based in Stoke-on-Trent

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:52

in Staffordshire, and the closest bed, closest hospital that could

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:56

take both of us was Edinburgh!

VIKKI: 00:08:58

Oh my God!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:08:59

Yeah, so my mum came to the hospital and I was

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:02

crying just saying that "they might be sending us to Scotland!"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:04

There was nowhere that could take 28 week old twins any closer than Scotland.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:09

So that was, again, you know, something that you just don't realise

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:12

until you're in that position.

VIKKI: 00:09:14

Yeah.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:14

That neonatals are so, you know, resources are so tight.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:19

Um, but yeah, so that was a little bit scary.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:21

But other than that, a perfectly healthy, fine, great pregnancy.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:25

I was scanned often, reassured everything was fine.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:28

So yeah, it was great.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:30

'Ignorance is bliss' as they say.

VIKKI: 00:09:31

How long were you on bedrest for?

VIKKI: 00:09:33

That must've been tough.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:34

Only for about four days.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:37

Um, we caught the fluid leaking very early, so it was complete bedrest.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:41

I couldn't even get up to go to the loo.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:43

And then things just settled down on their own, uh, until my

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:46

waters broke when I was 32 weeks.

VIKKI: 00:09:48

32 weeks.

VIKKI: 00:09:50

Wow, that's early.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:52

Yes.

VIKKI: 00:09:52

So are you happy to talk about the circumstances?

VIKKI: 00:09:56

So what happened then?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:09:58

So my waters broke on the Wednesday evening.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:01

Um, I rang the hospital and they said, "Do you think you

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:04

might have just wet yourself?"

VIKKI: 00:10:06

Nice.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:07

Yeah, lovely!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:08

"I'm really not in the habit of wetting myself, like I do

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:11

think my waters have gone".

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:12

Uh, so I went in slow labour, had some pethadine for pain relief, in the middle

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:18

of the night and I was dilating naturally.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:22

Got to about seven centimeters and midwife was saying, you know, "everything's

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:26

moving along slowly, but okay."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:29

And then they sort of were having a little rummage and they said, "oh,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:33

it's not a head it's a bum, we need to get you into theatre immediately."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:37

So this was six o'clock on the Thursday morning and they rang my partner,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:42

my fiance at the time, and said "she's, having these babies in about

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:45

30 minutes, you need to get here".

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:47

Bear in mind, we lived about 40 minutes away from the hospital!

VIKKI: 00:10:50

Oh my goodness.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:51

They were literally like, well, I rang him at first and I

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:54

said, you know, "the babies are coming".

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:55

And then they took the phone off me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:56

They said, "you are far too relaxed.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:10:59

You know, you need to get here- don't break the land speed

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:01

record, but you need to get here!"

VIKKI: 00:11:02

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:11:03

Crack on.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:04

So he literally ran down the corridor as I

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:07

was wheeled into theatre.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:08

So it was, there were seconds that he got there in time.

VIKKI: 00:11:12

But he was there?

VIKKI: 00:11:13

Fantastic.

VIKKI: 00:11:14

And how were you feeling, because obviously you weren't ready for

VIKKI: 00:11:18

the birth to happen that early?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:20

No, I wasn't.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:22

Um, I think a couple of things really.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:24

I was excited because I felt that I'd been pregnant for as long as an elephant.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:27

We'd found out so early.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:29

It didn't really, if I'm in all honesty, dawn on me that the babies

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:33

were going to be two months early.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:34

It was just the case of "I feel like I've been pregnant for

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:37

12 months, let alone seven".

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:40

And so I was just so excited to meet them.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:43

And the other thing that I remember - this was before the days of Facebook- and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:47

I was on a website called TAMBA, which was the Twins and Multiple Birth Association.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:51

It's now called The Twin Trust.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:53

And there was an online forum and I just logged on and said,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:56

"Girls, the waters have gone.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:57

I will see you on the other side".

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:11:59

And I always remember that that was how I signed off my forum.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:12:03

And after the events of having the boys, I remember thinking, 'wow, that was

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:12:06

a different person that wrote that".

VIKKI: 00:12:08

Hmm.

VIKKI: 00:12:09

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:12:10

It is incredible, isn't it?

VIKKI: 00:12:11

It's something we talk about a lot on the podcast about how, as soon as you

VIKKI: 00:12:15

have your baby, whatever happens, you have changed incredibly and nothing

VIKKI: 00:12:22

can prepare you for that moment.

VIKKI: 00:12:24

You can do all the right things.

VIKKI: 00:12:26

And it sounded like throughout the pregnancy you were, you

VIKKI: 00:12:28

know, really preparing as much as you could and in control.

VIKKI: 00:12:32

But then when it happens, it's kind of taken out of your hands.

VIKKI: 00:12:36

And, um, so are you, are you happy to talk about the birth and what happened?

VIKKI: 00:12:43

So you were rushed into theatre

VIKKI: 00:12:45

- CHARLIE BESWICK: Yes.

VIKKI: 00:12:46

Um, emergency caesarean section.

VIKKI: 00:12:49

We were told, we've got boys.

VIKKI: 00:12:51

We didn't know the gender of the babies, so we were told there were two boys and

VIKKI: 00:12:55

they were both whisked away to special care, which we expected because we knew

VIKKI: 00:12:58

there were going to be small birth weight.

VIKKI: 00:13:01

They were premature anyway, so that didn't come as any shock to us at the time.

VIKKI: 00:13:07

I remember sort of waiting to hear them cry, as all mums do, waiting for that

VIKKI: 00:13:10

anxious moment that feels like it just takes forever to hear the baby's crying.

VIKKI: 00:13:15

And then they were whisked away.

VIKKI: 00:13:17

My fiance, he remembers seeing them cover Harry's face in half, sort of

VIKKI: 00:13:23

with half of the you know, the sort of towelling, the wrapping that they have.

VIKKI: 00:13:28

But he thought nothing of it again, he just thought it was just a

VIKKI: 00:13:31

position and the rush and so they were sent off to special care.

VIKKI: 00:13:35

I was returned to the ward.

VIKKI: 00:13:36

I'd been awake since six o'clock Wednesday evening.

VIKKI: 00:13:39

So I've been awake all through the evening.

VIKKI: 00:13:40

So I was exhausted, slept and snored apparently really badly, which is sexy!

VIKKI: 00:13:46

And meanwhile, Mark had gone and rang everybody.

VIKKI: 00:13:50

And told them that we'd got two perfectly healthy boys.

VIKKI: 00:13:52

I was okay, recovering well, and yeah, just delivered the amazing news

VIKKI: 00:13:57

that the two of us had become a four.

VIKKI: 00:13:58

We'd got two boys and everything was great!

VIKKI: 00:14:01

Did you have skin to skin contact with them or were

VIKKI: 00:14:05

they literally just whisked off?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:06

Whisked away.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:07

Didn't see them, didn't nothing.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:11

Nothing at all.

VIKKI: 00:14:11

That, that's the trauma in itself for for you?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:15

Yeah.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:15

It was, it was, and I woke up and actually I remember, I don't

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:20

even know how long ago it was.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:22

And, and I don't know, I think this is quite common with C-sections, but I

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:25

remember lying in the ward and feeling wind in my stomach and thinking,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:30

"this is like the babies kicking."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:31

It's like my body's punishing me and tricking me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:34

And just my body almost craving these little people again and not

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:39

being able to be anywhere near them because they were covered in wires.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:43

Um, and Harry, we'll, we'll come to that in a second, but he actually went

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:47

to Manchester after the boys were born.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:48

So I didn't see him for six, for six days, let alone skin to skin contact.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:52

I didn't,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:14:56

Yeah, so you've got premature twins, you know, low birth weight anyway,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:00

and then he went away for six days.

VIKKI: 00:15:03

And so when did you learn about your boys?

VIKKI: 00:15:07

When did you see them?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:09

So I had the boys at 6:30 AM and at 10:30 AM the paediatrician

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:15

came to see Mark and myself.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:17

The midwife had come sooner than that, but Mark was out making the phone calls

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:21

and she said, "Oh, I'll come back."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:22

And I just knew something wasn't right.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:25

And so the paediatrician came back and he said, "Twin one", who

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:29

we'd called Oliver, "is fine."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:30

And at that point you just think "There's a but, I knew it.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:33

What's gone wrong?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:35

And he said "Twin two, Harry, has been born with what we think

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:39

is called Goldenhar syndrome.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:41

So for him, he's got no eye, no eye socket, no ear, no nostril, a short,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:47

underdeveloped jaw on his left hand side.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:49

We think he'll have brain damage, and it's unlikely that he'll ever walk."

VIKKI: 00:15:54

Wow.

VIKKI: 00:15:54

Bam.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:55

Yeah, literally.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:15:56

And I remember the doctor -who we were in touch with for about another 12

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:01

years, and I adored him- I remember him drawing a line down the centre of his

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:04

face and sweeping his hand to the left as if he was erasing everything there.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:08

And after that, most of what he said sounded like it was underwater.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:12

I just, my brain just couldn't really comprehend much other

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:17

than that, I just, yeah.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:19

Went into complete shock.

VIKKI: 00:16:21

I'm not surprised, you know, lack of sleep, you've been through the

VIKKI: 00:16:25

trauma of the C-section and so much to take in, in just one fell swoop.

VIKKI: 00:16:31

Was your partner with you at the time?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:33

Yeah, he was at my side.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:35

And I remember looking at him thinking, this isn't right.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:39

Is there a mistake?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:40

Is there a, just really in that denial phase of, of the grief cycle, I think.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:47

And he says- and I don't remember this- he said that "You just looked at me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:51

You just kept saying, I'm so sorry.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:53

I'm so sorry."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:54

And he said "You were crying but not sobbing."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:16:56

Just the kind of where the tears just fall down your face.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:00

There's no gut wrenching emotion behind it.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:04

It was just, he just said, "You kept saying, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:08

And he said "You know, you don't have to be sorry.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:09

You don't have to be sorry."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:10

And I don't really remember that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:12

Um, but that was my first reaction was to apologise.

VIKKI: 00:17:16

Oh my goodness.

VIKKI: 00:17:18

So then what?

VIKKI: 00:17:18

What happened next?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:20

So then Mark went out and rang everybody back

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:24

again and told them the news.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:25

My mum came straight to us, and I remember he put her on the phone and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:30

I just said, "Something's wrong, mum."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:32

And that's all I could say.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:34

And then Mark spoke to her and my mum says, "At that time I

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:37

remember thinking, she's my baby.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:39

I need to get to her regardless of what's happening with her babies, she's

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:43

mine and I need to know she's okay."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:46

And so they came and said, "Do you want to meet the boys?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:49

so it was one o'clock the next morning because the boys were born

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:53

in Macclesfield which is in Cheshire, but they didn't have the capacity to

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:17:58

look after Harry because he needed so many scans and investigation.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:02

So he was sent to Hope Hospital in Manchester.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:05

And so they wheeled me to him and I put my finger through the incubator that he

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:11

was in, and he just put his little fingers around mine but his head was turned, so

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:16

his head was facing the opposite way.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:18

So I just saw the back of his head and he just grabbed my little finger.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:22

And then he went in up by ambulance and Mark went with him, um, up to Hope.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:27

And I didn't see Oliver at that point.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:30

Um, I think I saw Oliver probably the day afterwards -it's all a bit of a blur.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:34

But again, he was just behind CPAP and wires and monitors

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:39

and things that were beeping.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:41

And, you know, he just looked like a tiny little bomb that I couldn't touch

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:43

or go anywhere near, let alone hold.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:47

And yeah, it was, it was really, really tough.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:50

Really hard.

VIKKI: 00:18:52

And how, what was their birth weight?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:54

Three pound nine

VIKKI: 00:18:55

So tiny, tiny.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:58

Yeah.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:18:58

They looked like little old men that hadn't grown into their skin, you

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:00

know, they were still a bit wrinkly.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:02

And I look back at photographs now and just see that they looked

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:06

great considering everything.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:09

But at the time, particularly with Harry, I really struggled to see

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:14

anything other than my failure.

VIKKI: 00:19:16

And what support did you have around you?

VIKKI: 00:19:19

Obviously your partner had to go off with Harry and you had

VIKKI: 00:19:24

your mum there, but what sort of psychological support were you given?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:29

Nothing.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:30

None.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:31

Nobody came to me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:32

Nobody asked questions.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:34

I remember the midwife- and I've actually tried to find her on Facebook since

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:39

this, Rachel- she came and sat on the end of the bed, about the weekend after.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:44

So I had the boys on a Thursday, so it would've been the Monday.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:46

And she said, "I've had an awful weekend."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:48

And I said, "Why"?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:49

And she said, "Because I just, I was so sad and cross that this has

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:53

happened to you, and I just felt that it was really wrong and unfair

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:19:57

and I just, it spoiled my weekend because I just felt so mad for you."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:00

And it was joyous to hear.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:02

It was so lovely to hear somebody say this to me, because in the 48 hours

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:09

since the boys were born, all I'd heard was, "You are strong enough to do this.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:12

If anybody can do this, it's you.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:14

You've got this, we believe in you, you can do this!"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:17

And it all came from such a lovely place of belief and people really wanting their

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:23

belief in me to, you know, sort of infuse into me, but it set a really high bar.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:29

It set a really high standard for me to live up to, and in

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:32

that moment, Rachel just saying, "You know, this is just crap."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:35

It was so lovely to go "Yeah, it is.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:38

It really is."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:39

And I needed more of that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:41

It was a 10 minute conversation that meant such a lot to me,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:45

and I needed more of that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:46

And I didn't allow myself that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:48

I, I hid behind a smile and I now call that 'the lie we wear' - just

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:53

this smile that we paint on that says, "Yeah, I'm fine.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:55

I'm okay.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:56

Yes, of course I can handle this."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:20:58

When all the time you're doubting yourself and imploding.

VIKKI: 00:21:02

It's that sort of huge weight of expectation, isn't it?

VIKKI: 00:21:04

And as you say, those comments were coming from the right place.

VIKKI: 00:21:11

You know, people wanting to help and support, but actually words

VIKKI: 00:21:14

like that can be really damaging.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:21:17

Absolutely.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:21:18

And now when mums contact me -and they reach out to me quite often- the first

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:21:23

thing I do is validate everything that they're feeling and say- I'm

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:21:27

a bit of a swearer so apologies- but I will say, "This is shit.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:21:30

It is."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:21:30

And they're like, "Thank you so much.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:21:32

Nobody else is saying this to me."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:21:35

Um, and I think the quicker we have those conversations, the quicker

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:21:38

we can move through and forwards.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:21:41

Um, I didn't have that conversation for a long time and it was to my

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:21:44

mental health detriment really, that I didn't voice that, that I

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:21:48

pretended for as long as I did.

VIKKI: 00:21:50

So for anybody who's listening, whose friend perhaps, is going

VIKKI: 00:21:54

through an experience - obviously everybody's experience is different-

VIKKI: 00:22:00

but a traumatic experience like that, or, you know, perhaps something is

VIKKI: 00:22:04

wrong with their baby or one of their babies, what advice could you give them

VIKKI: 00:22:09

in terms of helping and supporting?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:22:13

I think it's a fine line between being positive

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:22:17

and optimistic and downplaying the emotions that the mum goes through.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:22:22

And a lot of the time it's guilt and grief and shock.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:22:25

So I think it would be something, what I needed to hear was, "You know,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:22:31

if anybody can do this, you can.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:22:33

But right now, this is crap and I am here for you.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:22:36

And if you need to come and moan and whinge and cry and stamp your

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:22:39

feet and, you know, just swear, I'm somebody that will listen to that."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:22:44

And I just think I needed that and that would've made all

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:22:48

the difference to me, I think.

VIKKI: 00:22:50

So a safe space where it's okay not to be okay.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:22:54

And not to be judged, because already I felt

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:22:57

that I'd failed my children.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:22:58

Already, I felt like a bad mum.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:23:00

I was like, "what sort of mum creates half a baby?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:23:04

So how can I ever admit that I blame myself or that I'm not happy for

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:23:09

this, or that I don't want this child, or that I'm worried that I can't

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:23:12

look at him, let alone love him?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:23:15

Or how can I admit that when I've already failed him so massively?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:23:20

And so those are the thought processes going through my mind.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:23:23

So I just needed somebody to give me that space of non-judgment and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:23:27

just "Get it all off your chest.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:23:29

And it's a safe place with me."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:23:31

And that's what I offer to mums now who don't have that.

VIKKI: 00:23:34

Amazing.

VIKKI: 00:23:34

And what we'll do is we'll signpost people to how to get hold

VIKKI: 00:23:38

of you, at the end of the show.

VIKKI: 00:23:41

What about your partner?

VIKKI: 00:23:42

How did he cope and what was the communication between the both of you?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:23:48

So he knew that I was struggling.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:23:51

He didn't want to get upset and create any more pressure for me

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:23:55

to be the strong one for him.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:23:57

And so he slipped into I guess ' man of the house' mode, you know?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:02

Kind of doing all the logistics, ticking things over.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:05

He still had to work after a few days.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:07

So he would go to work and then he'd come to Macclesfield, to us, which

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:11

was 40 miles from where he works.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:14

Then he'd drive another 40 miles up to Hope.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:16

Then he'd come back to see me and Oliver in hospital still.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:20

And so he was exhausted.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:21

He says that he cried once in the car on his own.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:25

That's all he did.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:26

Uh, and he just powered through.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:28

He just went into keep busy' mode, I think.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:32

And we never talked, we never spoke about what we were going through individually.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:38

We never cried together.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:42

Um, which looking back is really strange cause I'm so open, I

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:45

wear my heart on my sleeve so much.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:47

But I think we both went into self-protection mode.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:51

I didn't want to cry because I was convinced he blamed me anyway.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:55

So I thought I can't let him down.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:24:56

I've got to be strong now, make up for this child that I've given

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:01

him and he didn't want to get upset and, and make me feel worse.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:04

So we were just ships that passed really.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:07

We got married when the boys were one years old, uh, just the week

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:10

before their birthday actually.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:12

And then we separated when they were four and a half.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:15

And had we spoken to each other, I don't know if the outcome would've

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:18

been different, but now I know when I'm talking to mums that communication is key.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:23

We didn't, we just didn't.

VIKKI: 00:25:26

When did you come out of hospital then?

VIKKI: 00:25:28

And presumably was that just with Oliver?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:31

So I was in hospital for just over a week and I came

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:36

home alone, and then the boys came out when they were seven weeks old.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:42

Just trying to think about the maths now.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:43

Harry joined Oliver when they were eight days old in Macclesfield, and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:48

then they stayed there until they were just, I think six, seven weeks.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:52

And we brought them home at that point.

VIKKI: 00:25:53

So what was life like for you?

VIKKI: 00:25:55

Were you literally just going back and forth all the time?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:58

Yeah.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:25:59

And I couldn't drive because I'd had the caesarean section, so was really

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:04

relying on the goodwill of other people.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:06

And that was so hard because they wanted to question me, "do

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:10

you know what's caused this?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:11

And how are you feeling?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:12

And I'm sure he is still beautiful."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:14

And I didn't want to talk to people, I just wanted to get to

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:17

my boys and just be with my boys and then be at home on my own.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:21

And so I had to have this conversation, a day like Groundhog Day, day in, day out.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:27

And I remember taking people to see Harry and they'd cry and I'd comfort

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:31

them, you know, and I'd almost have to say, you know, "It's fine!"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:35

and reassure them that things were gonna be okay.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:37

And it was just exhausting.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:39

It was awful.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:40

Again, you know, it came from a really well-meaning place, people were lovely.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:43

People rallied around to give me lifts there and, you know, and Mark would

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:47

bring me home, but to drop me off.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:49

But it was hard.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:26:49

It was exhausting.

VIKKI: 00:26:51

And how did you feel when you were with the boys?

VIKKI: 00:26:54

Because as you say, there's all the barriers of the intensive

VIKKI: 00:26:58

care unit, the wires...

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:00

Yeah.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:01

It was strange- I think in no time at all you do get used to it . And you get used

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:06

to sort of what all the alarms mean and reading all the, the stats of the babies.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:11

And then you see new parents come in two weeks later and you feel like a

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:14

veteran and you can see them jumping at everything in the same way that you did.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:18

But yeah, so that was a journey in itself.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:20

That was a process.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:21

You know, you, you'd hear alarms going off and you'd think, "Is this it?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:23

Are we losing them?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:24

What does this mean?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:26

So you kind of lived on your nerves and that whole adrenaline rush.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:29

But then I'd be ringing Mark saying "They've taken 5ml down a gravity feed.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:33

Like it's amazing!"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:35

And I was expressing milk, ridiculously.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:39

I went into- as I do- all or nothing kind of powerhouse mode.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:43

And I remember the nurse in special care saying, "We could feed every

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:46

baby with the milk you are providing.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:48

You need to slow down."

VIKKI: 00:27:49

Wow.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:50

And I got mastitis because I just wouldn't stop.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:53

So yeah, it was intense for me as an individual, as a person.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:27:59

And for me as this new mum that was getting to know these

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:02

two very different babies.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:05

And actually when I've looked back in time, I think one of the

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:08

saddest things for me is that I completely missed the fact that I'd

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:12

got one healthy baby with Oliver.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:14

Harry's problems, completely eclipsed the whole process.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:17

Having my boys was the worst day of my life.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:21

And I hate saying that and I don't think any mother should say that, but it was.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:26

It was the most traumatic day of my life and that completely eclipsed the fact

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:31

that I'd got one perfectly healthy baby.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:33

So yeah, it was a slow process of getting to know their personalities.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:37

I remember coming in one morning and one of the nurses that had been on night duty

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:41

saying that one, Oliver, always wants to be fed, and that one just wants cuddles.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:46

And to this day, that's what they're like.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:48

You know, it was really bizarre!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:49

Four weeks old, and to this day, it's exactly like that now!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:53

But there was this weird feeling that other people know my babies

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:55

more than me, better than me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:28:58

You know, they understand my own children and I don't.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:01

So it was really alien, you know?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:03

I didn't feel like a mum.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:04

I felt like a visitor to these little people that were

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:08

being cared for by the nurses.

VIKKI: 00:29:10

That's incredibly hard.

VIKKI: 00:29:12

So when you finally got them home, how did that feel?

VIKKI: 00:29:15

'Cause again, another massive process of adjustment?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:19

Yeah, really scary because up until that point

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:22

we'd had experts on hand 24- 7.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:25

So Harry came home with an apnea alarm, in case he stopped breathing in his sleep.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:30

He was bringing his milk back down his nostril because we weren't quite sure

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:34

if his pallet had formed properly.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:36

So Mark and I had to check on him every 20 minutes.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:39

And that was 24 hours a day, so we took three hours shifts in

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:42

sleeping so that we could just keep checking on him through the night.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:45

And he got this apnea alarm.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:47

So we just, again, lived on adrenaline, and tried to feed these- they were

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:52

only ...Oliver was five pound one, harry was four pounds 12 when they

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:29:58

came out- so they were still teeny tiny babies in micro nappies.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:02

You know, newborn nappies just drops off them, so they were in micro nappies.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:07

So yeah, it was really hard, and it was scary.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:10

I was 26, I was a young- you know, obviously not, not terribly

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:14

young mum, but I was 26 and it was a lot for me to take on.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:18

Mark went back to work quite quickly, and so I was on my own with them and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:23

my nan and my mum were phenomenal.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:25

They were brilliant help.

VIKKI: 00:30:26

So thank goodness you had them sort of around you, but again

VIKKI: 00:30:31

it sounds like a lack of support.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:33

Nothing.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:34

And in fact, we had the first health visitor that came out to

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:37

see us came and sat in the lounge.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:41

Think the boys were - the boys might not have even been home at that point,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:44

or if they were, it was very recent.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:46

And she said, "So I understand that your son's got some golden something or other.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:51

Do you think it was something you did?"

VIKKI: 00:30:53

No!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:30:54

And I just looked at her and said, "Yes, I

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:31:00

do think it was something I did."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:31:03

And I remember her walking, leaving the house quite, I was quite abrupt with her.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:31:08

And I rang the service and I said, "Don't ever send that woman to my house again."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:31:11

Um,

VIKKI: 00:31:12

not surprised.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:31:13

And just the sheer lack of common sense and kindness,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:31:19

in a role that requires those things as standard, . Was astounding to me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:31:25

So and I have done work with people- students who are training in those

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:31:29

fields- and use that as an example of how really not to interact with new mums.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:31:34

Yeah, it was awful.

VIKKI: 00:31:36

Oh my goodness.

VIKKI: 00:31:37

I...

VIKKI: 00:31:37

it's just breaking my heart, listening to all of this, you know, and

VIKKI: 00:31:41

everything that you've been through.

VIKKI: 00:31:44

So can you explain a little bit more about Harry's condition?

VIKKI: 00:31:48

Because obviously with the apnea, was it?

VIKKI: 00:31:51

That must have been, my God- as any parent, you worry about your

VIKKI: 00:31:58

newborn baby, not breathing.

VIKKI: 00:32:00

But to actually have that as a possibility...

VIKKI: 00:32:04

that's torture.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:06

Yeah.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:06

And the alarm going off and then you jump up and you think, "this is it, he's dead."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:10

And you get there and he's just rolled over and unplugged the

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:12

wire from his stomach and you just think, "oh my goodness!"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:15

You know, you don't know whether you are relieved or annoyed or you, you

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:18

just have all these emotions on top of hormones, on, on top of sleep deprivation.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:23

It was a melting pot.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:24

It was a disaster waiting to happen in many ways.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:27

And then a complete lack of support for me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:30

So yeah, it was difficult.

VIKKI: 00:32:32

So when did you become aware that something was going on with you?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:39

When the boys turned one.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:41

So I knew before then, I remember my mum visiting and I was laying on

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:46

the sofa and I just whispered to her, "I feel like I've got half a baby."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:51

And she just said, "You haven't, yeah, you, you know, he's a beautiful boy."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:54

And I just couldn't properly connect with him.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:58

Nothing to do with him.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:32:59

Like if you look at photographs of him now, seriously, such a beautiful baby.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:03

He's got my eyes eye, he's got my eye.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:06

Um, and it's a really big round, beautiful blue twinkly eye and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:11

this really mischievous smile.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:13

Gorgeous baby.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:14

I couldn't see any of that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:15

I looked to him, I saw failure.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:17

I just saw an inadequacy to be a mother and a decent human being.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:22

And for those reasons, I struggled to bond with Harry for my own reasons,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:27

nothing to do with him as a baby.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:29

And so when the boys were one, I remember it was almost like

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:35

my body knew when it was 10:30.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:37

And I think it was possibly a little bit of PTSD from, from having the

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:43

news and, and it, I just had this feeling like somebody had just

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:46

walked over my grave and I relived every single second of that news.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:53

And that actually went on for five years.

VIKKI: 00:33:56

Oh my goodness.

VIKKI: 00:33:57

Because at 10:30 was when you were...?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:33:59

When they told me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:01

So I'd know at 6:30 that, you know you know, I'd say to the boys.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:04

"Your birthday is when you were born, half past six, you came

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:06

into the world, happy birthday!"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:08

But yet it was just like muscle memory.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:10

And I was teaching one year and I remember just wanting to be sick and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:15

looking at the clock and it was 10:30.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:17

My body knew I, I didn't even, maybe I, maybe I was aware of it

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:20

in the background, I'm sure I was.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:22

But yeah, it was just like muscle memory.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:23

My body just would go into shock, in that moment of reliving it all over again.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:27

It was really tough.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:29

And so there was a few things that were going on with my mental health.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:32

I was training to be a teacher when the boys were born, so I'd got that pressure.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:37

And so I was trying to give everything to my teaching qualification and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:42

be really strong and be really in control and be really, you

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:46

know, articulate with my studies.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:48

And so that left very little to be a mum, at all.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:51

And then I was trying to be everything to the boys and trying

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:53

to learn about Harry's syndrome.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:55

And we were doing occupational therapy, had to have physio so that the left

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:34:59

hand side of his neck didn't perish.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:01

We had to do all these tiny little things, black and white photographs and images

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:05

so that we could stimulate his vision.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:07

It wasn't just feeding him, you know, we had to do vision therapies, hearing

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:10

therapies, physiotherapy with him as well.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:13

Um, so I was trying to give everything there and I just was burning the candle at

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:18

both ends and a little bit in the middle.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:20

But that's how I coped- be busy, be effective, where you can, "make

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:24

people proud because you've got a lot to make up for girl.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:27

And don't be a wimp and sit and feel sorry for yourself.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:31

You haven't got time for that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:31

You need to crack on."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:33

So my internal dialogue was pretty relentless and quite harsh, I would say.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:39

Like I would never speak to anybody in the way that I spoke

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:41

to myself in those moments.

VIKKI: 00:35:42

So, so many of us do, you know!

VIKKI: 00:35:45

We've got two episodes devoted to Self Compassion and how you need

VIKKI: 00:35:50

to talk to yourself with kindness.

VIKKI: 00:35:52

But my goodness, you really beat yourself up, didn't you?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:54

Yeah.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:55

Awful.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:35:55

Yeah, I was nasty to myself.

VIKKI: 00:35:58

Sorry - I'm just so moved by everything you're saying, so apologies-

VIKKI: 00:36:02

it's very unprofessional, blubbing away!

VIKKI: 00:36:05

And you talked about the bonding issue with Harry.

VIKKI: 00:36:08

What was your relationship like with Ollie?

VIKKI: 00:36:11

I mean, did you even have time to develop one because of all the

VIKKI: 00:36:15

extra stuff you had to do for Harry?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:36:18

I think for me it was very functional with both boys.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:36:22

It was very functional, certainly the first 12 months.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:36:25

But as I got to know their little personalities ... I would say past sort

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:36:29

of seven months, once we got onto the weaning of food stage and we were able

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:36:34

to have a little bit of communication and I saw them as little people in

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:36:37

their own right, that helped me a lot.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:36:41

Up until that point, it was very much all on me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:36:45

And I did really struggle.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:36:47

But I remember when the boys must've been about 13 and I apologised to Mark

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:36:53

and said that I felt that I'd been a weak and an absent mum, mentally.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:36:59

And he said "You were a brilliant mom.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:01

You were such a good mum to them when they were little.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:04

You just don't see it.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:05

You don't remember it."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:06

My boys we're very, very close.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:08

Harry's a real mummy's boy -actually so is Oliver!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:11

We are super, super close as a unit, and so I don't think that

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:15

would've happened if I'd have been the mum that I imagine I was.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:19

But I was just very conscious that in those formative years I was dealing

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:23

with so much on my own that I kind of just beat myself up a lot thinking

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:26

"Well, how could they have developed normally, typically- if you like-

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:30

with a mum that was absent mentally?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:32

But kids are resilient and they did.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:35

And yeah, I fought their corner.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:38

I did all of the things that I needed to do for both of them.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:41

Um, and we've got an amazing relationship for that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:44

Not, you know, because of that, I think not in spite of it.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:47

I fought for myself.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:48

I fought for me to love them.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:37:50

And in doing so, I think that

VIKKI: 00:37:54

And because of everything that you did and all those efforts and

VIKKI: 00:37:57

you are saying that you were mentally absent, but everything you're saying

VIKKI: 00:38:00

to me sounds like you were absolutely there, but you had so much to deal with.

VIKKI: 00:38:06

Everything that you did for your boys, especially with Harry, with all

VIKKI: 00:38:09

the, the physio and the feeding and everything's there to care for him.

VIKKI: 00:38:17

So you were, you were doing all the right things.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:19

I remember the physiotherapist coming and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:21

seeing us and she said as she was walking out the door, she said to

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:25

me, "He's so lucky to have you."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:27

And I said, "What do you mean?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:28

And she said, "I see so many babies with the mums that don't know where to start

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:33

and don't want to, for whatever reason."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:35

She wasn't being judgmental.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:37

She just said, "He's so lucky.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:38

He's got you doing all this And that was really...

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:41

it surprised me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:43

It really surprised me and I thought, "Wow, okay.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:45

There are mums out there struggling more than me and I'm doing a good job.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:49

Am I?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:50

You know, the fact that she didn't need to say that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:52

She wasn't my mum, she wasn't Mark, she wasn't just doing it to keep me happy.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:38:56

And it was those sorts of people that validated me as a

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:39:00

mum I think, and really helped.

VIKKI: 00:39:05

Were you able to take that in at the time, or did you not believe her?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:39:09

and no, I questioned it, certainly I questioned it, but

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:39:11

it's something I kept coming back to.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:39:14

I kept coming back to it and when I kept thinking I'm doing a really

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:39:17

rubbish job, I'd think "No, no- other people that don't have to say I'm

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:39:22

doing a good job, have seen that I am."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:39:24

And so yeah, she will never understand how powerful those words were to

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:39:27

me, and the difference they made.

VIKKI: 00:39:29

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:39:29

So if there's anybody out there listening who works in supporting Mums, that's it.

VIKKI: 00:39:35

You never know what a difference your words can make.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:39:39

Absolutely.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:39:40

Yeah, completely.

VIKKI: 00:39:41

What about your family and friends?

VIKKI: 00:39:43

Were they noticing the changes in you?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:39:47

In the beginning it was only mum that saw that, because

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:39:49

she was the one that would come to me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:39:52

And I remember she came to pick me up one morning to take me to

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:39:54

hospital and she walked into the kitchen where I was standing and she

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:00

could see that I was about to cry.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:02

And then she put her arms around me and my legs completely gave way.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:05

And I just howled.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:07

It wasn't even a cry, it was just a howl.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:10

And it almost came from the pit of my stomach kind of noise.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:14

So she saw all of that when other people saw the smile and the "I'm

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:17

okay, yes, of course I'm coping!"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:19

As the boys got older, so when they were sort of five or six and I got

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:23

closer to a depressive episode and not a full breakdown, but close enough.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:29

The partner teacher that I was with, she knew because she could tell from

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:33

my mood, I was getting quite manic.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:35

So some days I would go in and I would literally be literally bouncing, you know,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:40

singing like somebody that had just had four Red Bulls for breakfast, you know?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:45

And then other days I would go in and shut the door behind me and it

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:48

would be a cue- "Don't come in.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:49

I'm not ready to talk to you."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:51

And so she saw that very extreme change in me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:55

Because I would go to bed not knowing how I was going to wake up in the morning.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:40:59

And so that really was a telling sign for me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:01

But the boys were a lot older by that time, and Mark and I had separated.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:05

I was a single parent by the time that was happening.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:07

And Harry had obviously been diagnosed with autism because that

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:10

happened when he was two and a half.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:12

So on top of the Goldenhar- and lots of children that have

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:15

Goldenhar syndrome, cognitively are unaffected by the syndrome.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:19

They, you know, live completely typical, um, cognition lives.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:24

But autism runs in my family and I believe that it's genetic.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:28

I don't believe it's caused by vaccines.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:30

That's a whole different conversation.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:32

But again, that, that's genetic.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:34

So I felt that I'd passed that on to him.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:36

And so we'd got the autism to deal with as well.

VIKKI: 00:41:40

So when you got that diagnosis, that must have been

VIKKI: 00:41:42

another big shock for you.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:44

Yeah, it was, it was another blow.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:46

Mark and I went to the assessment in different cars and I remember

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:49

I got into the car and I cried and punched the steering wheel.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:53

And then I drove home and that was it.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:55

That we didn't get upset about it.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:57

Again.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:41:57

It was just very much "Right, how do we move forwards?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:00

How do we move forward from this?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:01

And I think there's a place for that, I really do.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:03

But I don't think you can do that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:04

It's like building a house on sand.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:06

Unless you address those real base emotions, anything

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:12

else just isn't productive.

VIKKI: 00:42:15

What was your understanding of autism?

VIKKI: 00:42:18

Because if we are looking back, so this would've been about 14 years ago?

VIKKI: 00:42:22

There was such ignorance and lack of information and understanding

VIKKI: 00:42:26

even amongst the medical profession about the autism spectrum.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:31

Absolutely.

VIKKI: 00:42:32

What did that mean to you and what were your fears?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:35

Oh, so this is an awful thing to admit, but it is how, you

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:40

know, life was in the early nineties.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:43

As a 11, 12, 13 year old with my mates walking home from school, we'd see a

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:48

special needs bus go past and people would be saying, "There are the 'biscuit

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:50

spitters', there are the 'window lickers'.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:53

You'd be calling them all these names as if they were a separate entity- you know,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:57

sort of aliens, separate to the world.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:42:59

So I kind of just, it was just fear.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:04

It was just, "Oh my days.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:06

Is that what he's got for his life?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:08

Is he going to be 'retarded'?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:11

A word again that we don't use now that we would've used then.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:14

" Will he speak?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:16

Will he know me?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:17

Is he going to be some sort of vegetable that I have to care for forever?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:21

Is he gonna have any sort of quality of life?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:23

Is Oliver gonna have any sort of sibling relationship?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:26

Am I gonna be a carer forever?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:28

I might have said that one already, but you, you know, just kind of all

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:31

of these things that go around in your brain, like a washing machine.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:34

And just that whole unknown uncertainty.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:38

"Will he ever speak?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:39

Will he ever be out of nappies?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:42

It was just fear.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:43

So, so much fear and so much unknown.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:46

Um, and as it is, you know, he's made incredible progress and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:51

hindsight's a wonderful thing.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:52

You know, if I knew then what I know now, I'd have coped absolutely

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:56

fine because he is amazing.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:43:57

But I didn't, you know, and it was just another blow.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:01

And I didn't understand what autism was.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:04

I didn't want my child to go to special school with all these special

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:07

needs kids that I had no idea about.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:10

And I remember taking him when he was only three to look at one and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:14

it wasn't the right one for him.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:15

There was a lot of physical disabilities there and Harry has

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:17

no physical disabilities at all.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:19

And I remember clutching him to her chest and sobbing and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:21

just saying, "I'm so sorry.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:23

I'm so sorry."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:24

And I think I was apologising for the fact that these were his options.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:27

Oliver was off to mainstream and this was what Harry had got.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:30

You know, we'd gone around a school, which is amazing that the school that

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:33

we were in, but they were doing a lot of physical therapy on children

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:37

that were moaning and groaning and...

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:39

and I just felt like, again, I'd failed him and let him down.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:43

And then we went to a second school in the same day, and I was emotionally spent.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:48

I was really shattered.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:49

And we were walking around the classrooms and looking through the windows, and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:53

I was seeing these children happy, playing, laughing, smiling, thriving.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:44:58

And I got emotional.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:45:00

And the head teacher obviously mistook that for, for sadness.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:45:03

And she put hand on my shoulder and she said, " I know parents don't ever want to

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:45:06

send their children to schools like this, but I promise we'll look after your boy."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:45:11

And I just thought, "He's here.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:45:13

This

VIKKI: 00:45:13

yeah, yeah, this is right.

VIKKI: 00:45:15

This

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:45:15

This is the right place for my boy.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:45:17

And it was, and I never looked back.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:45:19

You know, they were amazing for him.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:45:22

Um, and in many ways, you know, his autism saves him from so much - the

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:45:26

judgment of the Goldenhar and the cruel comments that he's had to endure.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:45:32

The autism has been a blessing in many ways.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:45:34

So it's tough.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:45:34

It is hard.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:45:36

But it's like anything, there's two sides.

VIKKI: 00:45:39

So this moves us beautifully onto where we can talk about your work

VIKKI: 00:45:44

and how you are actually using all of those experiences and your greater

VIKKI: 00:45:48

understanding of Goldenhar to, educate families and to educate other, children.

VIKKI: 00:45:55

But before we do that, can I just find out what was the turning

VIKKI: 00:46:00

point for you in terms of getting help for you and your recovery?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:05

Uh, planning to take my life.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:08

So I'd been in a car accident and I'd got some very, very strong painkillers

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:12

left over from the car accident.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:14

And I got a very, very comprehensive plan on how to end

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:20

my life and what to do about it.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:21

And my mum rang me on the evening and she just said, "Are you okay?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:26

And it was just one of those moments when I could have said, "Yeah, I'm fine.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:29

See you tomorrow.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:30

I love you.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:31

Remember I love you."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:33

And I didn't.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:33

I just said, "No."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:34

And she came straight round and stayed with me the night, and then

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:37

took me, literally dragged me to the doctors to say, you know, "My

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:40

daughter needs saving from herself."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:42

And then I went on medication and I was so ashamed, so ashamed to be medicated.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:48

And yet it saved my life.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:50

And I'm currently medicated, actually, I, I was on antidepressant.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:53

Yeah, I have no, no fear of it at all.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:57

Um, I was medicated for only two and a half years.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:46:59

I was on antidepressants.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:01

And then three years ago I was put on anxiety medication for different reasons,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:05

but I have no shame around that at all.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:08

But back then I was really ashamed I couldn't just cope with it on my own.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:12

And I think I expected jazz hands and cartwheels.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:15

And actually the medication just leveled me out to a place

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:17

where I wasn't manic anymore.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:18

And I didn't fear how I was going to wake up the next morning.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:22

I just woke up feeling calm and level.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:25

And from there, that gave me the grounding that I then went on to

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:28

have private counselling and with the antidepressants and just taking one

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:32

day at a time that made the difference.

VIKKI: 00:47:34

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:47:35

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:47:36

And how long would you say your recovery took?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:43

After that point from being medicated?

VIKKI: 00:47:45

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:47:45

Or from your absolute nadir, that moment- like when did you

VIKKI: 00:47:49

feel like you turned a corner?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:51

That's such a good question.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:54

So probably, probably three years.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:47:57

So probably when my boys were about nine that I actually felt that

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:48:02

I was maybe 10, that I actually felt that I was getting somewhere.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:48:07

I'd had a health scare and I decided to reduce my hours to part-time.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:48:10

And I think at that point I was making logical, sensible decisions

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:48:15

for myself as a mum and as a teacher.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:48:18

Whereas before then I'd almost been punishing myself to

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:48:21

be everything to everybody.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:48:23

It was almost like my, you know, my penance really for failing my children.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:48:28

You have to be everything to everybody.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:48:30

You have to be superwoman.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:48:31

You've got such a lot to make up for.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:48:33

And I think the minute I started to be kinder to myself and.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:48:38

Yeah, you've mentioned self-compassion.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:48:39

The minute I started to be more compassionate to myself is the point I

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:48:43

think that turned things around for me.

VIKKI: 00:48:46

And for any mums or dads that are listening who are really struggling,

VIKKI: 00:48:51

they're in that sort of pit at the moment and finding it very hard to...

VIKKI: 00:48:55

they're just trying to power on through and not giving any regard

VIKKI: 00:49:00

to what they themselves need or what they're going through.

VIKKI: 00:49:03

Do you have a message to them?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:06

Self-awareness is so critical, but you,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:08

we don't always have it.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:10

So I would just be stopping and looking back on your day and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:13

thinking "The decisions I've made today, how have they served me and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:17

how have they served my children?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:19

Because the scare that came for me was a suspected stroke when I was only 32.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:24

Uh, no, I was older than that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:25

Sorry.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:26

I was 34.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:30

And it was just incredibly high blood pressure from the stress of life.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:33

But at that point, I was like, "If I die, what happens to the boys?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:36

Who cares for the boys?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:37

What happens to them?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:37

I can't die."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:39

And so the question is, you know, when we are pushing ourselves and punishing

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:43

ourselves in the way that I did, we're actually punishing our kids because we're

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:46

giving them half a version of who we are.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:49

And, and that's not fair to them.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:51

So if you won't do it for yourself, do it for them.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:55

You know, slow down and just be a little bit kinder to yourself.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:49:59

And we also model to our children how to cope in these situations.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:03

So when I was beating myself up and being mean, you know, I could look

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:07

back and think, "Well, actually I'm showing Oliver how you treat yourself

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:11

in times of struggle and challenge."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:14

And that's not what I want for him.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:15

So children learn by watching.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:17

They copy what we do, not what we say.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:20

And so there is a responsibility on our shoulders as parents to be

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:24

you know, sort of happy, healthy human beings so that they can see

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:27

-our children can see how to live.

VIKKI: 00:50:30

That's a beautiful segue into the work that you're doing now to

VIKKI: 00:50:33

increase understanding and awareness.

VIKKI: 00:50:36

Can you tell us about your organisation and the work that you do?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:39

Sure.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:40

So we've got the charity.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:42

So with the charity, I go into schools and I run an assembly, in which I introduce

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:46

them to Harry, via the power of YouTube.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:49

And we do some workshops around writing to Harry, the younger

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:54

children, and the older ones write to trolls online, on the internet.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:50:57

The feedback that I get from parents is just incredible.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:00

It lights me up, the charity work, you know, they'll come home and they'll

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:03

say, "I can't get a grunt out of my children at the best of times," you know,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:06

"What have you done at school today?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:07

Nothing."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:09

And mums will say, "they come back and they're telling

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:10

me about Goldenhar Syndrome.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:12

And they're telling me all about the abuse that you've had and how they're

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:15

in 'Harry's Army', and it's not a fighting army, it's a kindness army.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:19

And they know what to do when they see somebody that looks different now."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:22

And that's just amazing.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:24

So that's really supporting the children and the next generation for when I'm not

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:27

around to be here and to be Harry's voice.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:30

And then with the mums, that's very much around giving them a safe

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:35

space to work through that grief and that guilt without judgment.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:39

And really from a place of understanding, you know, not just a therapist that

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:44

has trained in grief, but somebody that's walked it and lived it.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:48

And we work through various different aspects of life, such as,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:51

losing your own identity, dealing with the loss of friendships.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:56

Some friends can't cope when you have a child with additional

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:51:59

needs and you lose friendships.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:52:01

Um, you know, the reaction to other people, what other people think when

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:52:04

you're in the middle of the supermarket and your child's having a meltdown

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:52:06

and kicking the crap out of you, and you've got people saying "Your child

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:52:09

needs a good slap", or they're just throwing looks at you and tutting-

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:52:15

that's hard for parents to deal with.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:52:17

So we just address the issues that are pertinent for that mum so that she can

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:52:21

then live a life with calm and confidence and contentment rather than overwhelm.

VIKKI: 00:52:30

And I think what you were saying there about grief, that's

VIKKI: 00:52:33

quite a key element, isn't it?

VIKKI: 00:52:35

Because you are grieving the birth, the family life that, you

VIKKI: 00:52:40

know, everybody goes into it having expectations rightly or wrongly.

VIKKI: 00:52:45

But yeah, I mean, did you feel you went through a grieving period?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:52:49

Absolutely.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:52:50

And I do still to this day at times.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:52:53

You know, Oliver had a prom- Harry didn't.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:52:56

Oliver has gone to college and is travelling to Japan

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:52:59

next year- Harry won't.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:01

It never leaves, it never goes, but you just become more adjusted to it

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:07

and life grows around your grief and you see the gifts that your child has,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:12

which offsets the grief, you see that they're having, they're living the

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:16

best life for them and They're happy.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:18

And ultimately that's all we want as parents is for our children to be happy.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:22

So you, you do see that, but I think, yes, the grief never leaves.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:27

And I have been sort of slammed on social media at times for saying

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:30

things like this, because they'll say, "Well, how will your children feel

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:33

if they see that you are saying you grieved them and that you, you grieve?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:36

And I'll say, yeah, but you can, I can feel sorrow and pride at the same time.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:42

can know grief and love simultaneously.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:44

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:47

You know, I can grieve the experiences Harry will never know and yet be

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:50

completely thrilled that he's off on a three day residential with school.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:54

I can do both things and it's not that I grieve for Harry.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:53:58

I'm so proud of him.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:00

I'm so proud of the mum that he's made of me, of the broken

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:03

bits of the woman that I was.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:05

Harry and Oliver have made me who I am today and I'm just so grateful

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:08

and so proud of them for that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:11

But damn right, it's a grief, you know?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:13

And I would argue with anybody that says it isn't.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:15

It's definitely a grief and it's a pain and we live with

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:18

that and we work through it.

VIKKI: 00:54:19

And that's not negating Oli and Harry in any way.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:23

No,

VIKKI: 00:54:24

It's the situation.

VIKKI: 00:54:25

not.

VIKKI: 00:54:26

Not, Not, them.

VIKKI: 00:54:28

So what sort of relationship do the boys have?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:31

So the first five years I think they coexisted.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:34

And then Oliver became more aware of people being mean about his brother.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:38

And so he then became his big protector and defender.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:41

And so that went on probably about another five or six years.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:48

And then Oliver got to the age of about 13, 14.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:52

And we were at the stage where we would go out and do things that teenagers

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:55

want to do, but we'd have to come home early because Harry would have a

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:54:58

meltdown or he couldn't cope with it.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:00

And so I think Oliver's had periods of resentment as well.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:03

So he loves him fiercely, he protects him massively, but I also think he

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:09

knows he's had to come second place such a lot, you know, so many times.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:14

And there have definitely been periods of resentment.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:18

He's kind of had, I say the worst of both worlds, but he's not been

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:22

an only child because he's not sort of had us to to himself, but he's

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:27

not had a sibling, he's not had Harry to partner with and play with.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:30

And I remember him being about seven and coming home from primary school

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:34

and getting upset and he said, "Mum, some of the boys at school were

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:38

saying that they'd been falling out with their brothers at school.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:40

And they don't know how lucky they are.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:41

I wish I could have an argument with Harry.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:43

They're so lucky to have brothers to fall out with or fight

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:45

with and I don't have that."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:48

You know?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:48

Just little things like that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:49

I think it's been a real journey for Oliver.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:51

I often say that the siblings of children like Harry are the

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:54

unsung heroes of our stories.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:55:56

And I will tell you at a story really quickly, and I were pressed for time,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:00

but there was one time when Oliver was about four, four and a half, five, and

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:05

he was questioning God for some reason.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:07

And we were at home and Harry'd had a real meltdown.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:11

And he said to me, he was talking to me about why- "Why did God send Harry to us?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:14

Why couldn't he send him to somebody else?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:16

And I said, I don't know.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:17

They obviously, God obviously chose us for a reason."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:20

And he said, Mummy, you always say Harry's special, but you don't say I'm special.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:23

Why aren't I special?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:25

And in that moment I just thought, "Crikey, I say 'special' meaning

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:29

disabled, different, disfigured.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:32

I don't say special meaning unique and better than you", you know?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:36

But Oliver had heard it that way because he was four and four year olds do.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:39

And I said, "Oliver, you are special as well.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:44

When God sent Harry to me, he knew that I was going to have times when I

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:49

found it really hard and really tough.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:51

So God sent you to me so that on the days when I felt that I was a bad mum,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:56:55

I could look at you and realise that I am a good mum and that I can do things

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:00

right and you are my gift from God."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:04

And so I said to him, "You are the greatest thing I ever did."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:07

And to this day, even now, he's almost 17.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:11

him, If I text him and say, "Oli, what you?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:13

He'll say "The greatest thing you ever did."

VIKKI: 00:57:15

Aww!

VIKKI: 00:57:16

My goodness!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:16

And that stayed with us, you know?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:18

And Harry is my sunshine boy.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:19

I sing 'You Are My Sunshine' and he sings it back to me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:22

And he taught himself how to play the piano when he was two and a half.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:25

And he plays, 'You Are My Sunshine for me, you know?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:28

Andrew and I get married in April, and Harry's playing at the wedding for us.

VIKKI: 00:57:32

My goodness, that's amazing!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:34

It'll be some sort of 'Twinkle Twinkle/ Old

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:36

MacDonald' mashup, but we don't care.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:39

We're not, we're not remotely bothered.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:40

We just love that he's taking part.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:42

So yeah, he's my 'Sunshine Boy' and Oliver's without doubt the

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:44

greatest thing I ever did.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:46

And when I wrote and published my book, a lot of his teachers read

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:49

it and they just said, "We had no idea what he puts up with at home."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:53

So yeah, I want to give a massive shout out to all the siblings because,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:57:58

you know, as you know personally, yeah, you put up with a lot.

VIKKI: 00:58:04

Aw, well, both your boys sound incredible.

VIKKI: 00:58:06

And so how is Harry these days and how's your relationship with Harry?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:11

Yeah, great.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:12

He is a feisty teenager with a mind of his own, um, functioning around

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:19

about six years old, just becoming a little bit more independent.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:25

Swearing like a sailor at times.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:27

That's one of those, when your son says, you know, "F's sake" on a Monday

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:33

morning, you kind of dunno that to tell him off or congratulating him

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:36

for using it in the right context.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:37

So there's always that a battle.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:39

But yeah, they're amazing boys.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:41

Oliver has taught himself Japanese.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:43

Oliver is dyslexic and also autistic, we've realised recently.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:47

But he's fluent in Japanese.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:49

He's Amazing.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:50

Amazing.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:51

Uh, and we've got Harry, who is so gifted with his music.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:58:55

He's played as part of the police orchestra, in Birmingham.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:00

They're just incredible boys.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:03

They're amazing boys.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:03

I'm so, so proud of them.

VIKKI: 00:59:05

How do you feel about Oli going to Japan?

VIKKI: 00:59:07

That's

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:08

Yeah,

VIKKI: 00:59:09

adventure.

VIKKI: 00:59:09

Hard for you as mum though!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:11

He is.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:11

Yeah.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:12

No good.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:12

He's going out there for one month with his stepbrother and stepsister, so the

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:15

three of them are going out together.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:17

And I think it will be an adventure of a lifetime for him.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:19

I really hope that it shapes him.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:21

I try very hard to encourage him to get out of our postcode area.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:25

His dad and his dad's family have set up a very successful business, but

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:30

it's based where we are and I would really love him to spread his wings.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:33

And so I've always, since he was very little, since Oliver was

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:36

about three, if ever we've had time on our own, I've taken him away.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:39

So we've been to Manchester, we've been to Liverpool.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:41

We've been to London several times.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:43

When he was 11, he became obsessed with the Colosseum.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:46

Um, so I saved 60 pounds a month.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:48

And for his 13th birthday, we went to Rome for four days.

VIKKI: 00:59:51

Oh amazing!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:52

As a surprise, you know, so I, I just try and make sure

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:56

that he sees a little bit of the world, and just then can make his own decision.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 00:59:59

If he chooses to stay local, then that's fine, but it won't

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:02

be because I've kept him here.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:03

It will be because I've encouraged him to go.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:06

I don't want him to, for me -selfish reasons, I'd keep him with me forever!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:09

But for him, I want him to see the world, you know, because he

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:13

can achieve whatever he wants to.

VIKKI: 01:00:15

Oh, so it sounds like things are are good.

VIKKI: 01:00:17

You're in a good place

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:18

Yes.

VIKKI: 01:00:19

You're getting married!

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:20

It's all good.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:21

Yeah.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:21

Andrew and I have been together almost 11 years now.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:24

It will have been 11 years on the day that we get married.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:27

And he's an amazing stepdad to both of my boys.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:30

My boys absolutely adore him.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:32

So, yeah, we are in an amazing place.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:33

I always say Tales With A Twist can have a happy ending,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:36

and we are in that place now.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:38

So it's, it's, it's good.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:39

It's been hard, it's been dark.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:40

It's been a struggle.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:42

But we're in a good place now.

VIKKI: 01:00:44

And would you say any regrets about all of the trauma

VIKKI: 01:00:50

that you've been through?

VIKKI: 01:00:51

I mean, do you feel you've benefited in any way from all of that?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:55

Completely.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:56

Yeah, I do.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:56

I think it shaped who I am.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:00:59

I think in not so much regrets, but it just makes me sad that I

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:01:03

was so mean to myself for so long, and that's what definitely drives

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:01:07

me to support other mums now.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:01:09

I don't want other mums to be six years in, wanting to take their own life

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:01:12

before they realise that the only way they can fail is to blame themselves for

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:01:17

something that was never their fault.

VIKKI: 01:01:19

No, exactly.

VIKKI: 01:01:21

And that's easy for us to say now, looking objectively, but

VIKKI: 01:01:26

when you're going through it,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:01:28

yeah.

VIKKI: 01:01:29

you don't have that clear thinking.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:01:30

But I am speaking with mums now that really appreciate talking

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:01:35

to somebody who felt like that as well.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:01:38

And again, sitting and giving them that space to talk about what they're grieving.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:01:42

Let's list what you are grieving, let's list what you'll never know,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:01:45

let's list what you think your child will never experience.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:01:47

And they might, you know, in some guise or another they may, but it's

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:01:52

really important that we validate that loss, right at the beginning, and then

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:01:56

we can move through everything else.

VIKKI: 01:01:58

So Charlie, you mentioned that you'd written a book.

VIKKI: 01:02:00

Can you tell me a bit more about that?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:03

Yes, so it's called 'Our Altered Life', same as our social media.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:06

And it's very much the book I needed to read right at

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:08

the beginning of the journey.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:10

So everybody that reads it says it made them cry.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:13

It also made them laugh out loud so you know, it chronicles

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:16

the highs and the lows.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:18

And for me it was really important to be brutally honest and to not

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:22

skirt around any of the issues that I knew needed addressing early on.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:26

So it's been read internationally.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:28

There's loads of great reviews, so you can buy that on Amazon and hopefully

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:32

people will get a lot from that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:34

Lots of Mums have reached out and said, "You've written what I daren't say."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:37

So in that instance, it's a great introduction to me and my boys.

VIKKI: 01:02:41

And did you find it cathartic then?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:43

Yeah, very much so.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:44

Initially it was just gonna be something I did for myself and it took me nine years.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:48

I just wrote bits, left it, wrote bits, left it, and then had a couple

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:52

of friends read it and they just went, "You so need to publish this.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:55

It absolutely needs to be a book."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:02:57

And so I did, not really expecting much and - behind my boys- I

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:03:01

would say my greatest achievement.

VIKKI: 01:03:03

How do people get hold of you, if they're looking for support either

VIKKI: 01:03:07

for themselves or for loved ones.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:03:10

So we are all over social media as Our Altered Life,

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:03:13

and if people want to email me, they can do so at 'info@ouralteredlife'.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:03:18

I do have a newsletter that I'd encourage people to subscribe to

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:03:21

if they're a mum in this position.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:03:23

And it is very specifically written for mums like me.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:03:27

But they can access that by emailing me or they can find the link on

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:03:30

Instagram, under Our Altered Life.

VIKKI: 01:03:33

My brother's disabled as well, and I remember my mum saying that she

VIKKI: 01:03:37

found it very, very hard being amongst other mums because, you know, her

VIKKI: 01:03:42

baby wasn't a pretty baby and he was having very different experiences or

VIKKI: 01:03:47

delayed development compared to others.

VIKKI: 01:03:50

And I think for a lot of mums who do have healthy babies, they probably,

VIKKI: 01:03:55

again, feel guilty if their friend or somebody that they know isn't having

VIKKI: 01:04:00

the same experience or perhaps they feel awkward about how to respond, how to

VIKKI: 01:04:06

react to the baby who might have, you know, disfigurement or disabilities.

VIKKI: 01:04:11

What advice would you give to them about the best way to help or respond?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:04:18

I think two things.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:04:19

I think, you know, sort of name the elephant in the room, first of all.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:04:23

If somebody come to me and said, "Charlie, I've never had a baby or known a baby

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:04:28

with a disfigurement, and I might say the wrong thing, but I'd love to know a bit

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:04:32

more about what you're going through", I'd have been so grateful and so touched.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:04:36

And on a similar vein, I would say be interested over

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:04:39

interesting, particularly new mums.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:04:42

I think we're all so proud of, of babies and we're all so keen to say

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:04:46

"Mine's walking, mine's talking, mine's doing this, mine's doing that."

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:04:49

We're so desperate to share and we're not asking questions.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:04:54

We are sort of giving information.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:04:56

So I think just be interested in each other's babies, and, and don't have

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:05:01

that judgement of "Ooh, not walking yet?

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:05:03

Is something wrong?"

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:05:04

You know, asking those questions.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:05:06

I would name the elephant in the room and just ask lots of questions.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:05:09

And include parents, you know, I know parents like myself, our children

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:05:14

often don't get invites to parties.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:05:17

They don't get included in things like that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:05:20

And I would just say, give us the opportunity to say yes or no.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:05:23

You know, don't just assume or feel awkward that they can't join in.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:05:27

Let us be the one that decides that.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:05:29

Just include us and wrap your arms around us in the same way

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:05:32

that you would any other mum.

VIKKI: 01:05:33

Yeah, all of what you're saying is such incredible advice and there is

VIKKI: 01:05:38

that awkwardness and not wanting to say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing.

VIKKI: 01:05:44

So there's an avoidance.

VIKKI: 01:05:45

These are really helpful, practical tips.

VIKKI: 01:05:48

So thank you.

VIKKI: 01:05:49

And I, can't wait for my mom to listen to this episode cause I

VIKKI: 01:05:52

think, I think it's gonna resonate with her so hugely - obviously

VIKKI: 01:05:55

very, very different circumstances.

VIKKI: 01:05:57

But I think a lot of the feelings that you have touched upon today,

VIKKI: 01:06:02

will be things that she can very much relate to having gone through.

VIKKI: 01:06:07

So thank you.

VIKKI: 01:06:08

Been such an inspirational guest and you're such a joy to speak to and

VIKKI: 01:06:12

I'm absolutely keeping everything crossed for your wedding to go ahead.

VIKKI: 01:06:18

No covid, no pandemic affecting it.

VIKKI: 01:06:21

And uh, yeah, I can't wait to hear about Harry's rendition

VIKKI: 01:06:24

as you stroll down the aisle.

VIKKI: 01:06:26

That sounds like a wonderful thing.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:06:28

Place your bets now, it'll be Old MacDonald or something

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:06:30

random, but we don't even care!

VIKKI: 01:06:34

Yeah, exactly!

VIKKI: 01:06:35

Thank you so much for joining us today.

CHARLIE BESWICK: 01:06:37

Thank you Vikki.

VIKKI: 01:06:39

If you've enjoyed this episode of Blue MumDays, please like and subscribe.

VIKKI: 01:06:44

It really does make the difference in helping other people find it and

VIKKI: 01:06:48

that means helping more parents.