Hobbs & Shaw has a climactic dawn battle that goes from pitch black to full daylight in about two minutes of screen time. Can the sun really rise that fast? We brought in actual scientist for an answer and a masterclass in using science for storytelling.

As always, we're more than a film review podcast, and this is the proof: a years-long movie argument between Cole and Jaclynn gets settled by an actual astronomer.

The Setup

Jaclynn has been saying for years that the sunrise in this scene is impossible, a jump cut from midnight to noon. Cole has spent just as long insisting she's wrong, and this episode is him finally bringing in reinforcements. As Cole puts it going in, "I don't think it's about the sunrise." It's Virgo season, and this is what a Virgo does with a grudge: proves it with data.

Meet the Astronomer

Zoe Learner Ponterio manages the Spacecraft Planetary Image Facility at Cornell, the Ivy League school where Carl Sagan spent 25 years as a professor of astronomy and which still runs a Carl Sagan Institute today. She got there after years on NASA's Mars Exploration Rovers science team, working the Spirit and Opportunity missions. She almost went to Harvard instead. Her reasoning: "I at one point just looked at the Harvard dean and said, do you have a Mars rover? He was like, no. I was like, well, I guess it's a no."

The Verdict

Zoe does the actual math: the fastest a sunrise can physically happen is at the equator on an equinox, and it clocks in around 128 seconds. At the poles, a sunrise can effectively last forever. Hobbs & Shaw is shot near the equator in Samoa, which gives the filmmakers real cover for a fast sunrise, just not one that stretches into full midday light the way the scene eventually does.

The closest thing to a ruling: Jaclynn walks the scene beat by beat, cut by cut, and catches herself mid-sentence, she'd been misreading one key shot for years, mentally borrowing the framing from an old TV show. Cole, smelling blood, sums her own argument back to her until she has to say the quiet part out loud. He gets his line for the record too, repeated three times for emphasis: "You were not wrong."

The Real Takeaway

Zoe uses science the same way the hosts use cameras and editing, as a tool for telling a story people care about. Her closing bit ties it back to the episode's own cold open: imagining what an alien visiting Earth would find remarkable about something we take for granted, in her case, the size and closeness of our moon. Her line lands the episode: "Every single film shoot should have an astronomer."

Around the Table

• Jaclynn goes in trying to prove Cole right instead of herself, and ends up seeing the sunrise shot differently for the first time in years.
• Robby never noticed the sped-up sunrise at all until Jaclynn pointed it out, and defends it from a pure craft angle: once the sun is up, the sun gets to be up.
• Cole sits on his own sunrise-shooting story from filming in the Galapagos until the very end of the debate, then finally uses it as backup.
• Zoe walks in to referee a movie argument and walks out making the case for why scientists and storytellers are sometimes doing the same job.

Subscribe If You Like The Format

This is the first in an occasional series bringing in people from outside film, people who aren't filmmakers or critics, to look at a scene through their expertise.

Chapters

• 0:00 Cold Open
• 1:31 Introducing the Astronomer
• 4:05 The Problem With the Sunrise
• 5:14 Why the Astronomer Chose Cornell Over Harvard
• 8:04 Personal Nitpicks About Film Continuity
• 12:31 When Were We In or Out
• 16:01 What You Need to Know Going In
• 20:09 The Astronomer's Problem With the Moon in Movies
• 20:50 Sketch: All-Hands Stand-Up Moon Meeting
• 22:18 How to Tell if the Moon Is Right
• 25:25 The Shortest and Longest Sunrise, a Thought Experiment
• 29:50 The Number One Thing About the Climax
• 33:20 Filming Sunrise and Sunset at the Equator
• 37:06 Science in Film
• 41:30 What Is Science Fiction (Because Star Wars Isn't)
• 46:19 What Did We Learn
• 49:38 Going Beat by Beat Through the Sunrise
• 1:01:30 The Astronomer on Storytelling

More Hobbs & Shaw

This isn't our first brawl in this particular light. Back when we just talked about the movie like normal people, before a Cornell scientist got involved, we did an episode called: Hobbes & Shaw - Virgo Season Continues with a Story Told Almost Entirely in Visuals

I like to sometimes

2

imagine, what if I was an alien

visiting Earth.

3

What is something that an Earthling

4

absolutely took for granted that’d

really blow the alien away?

5

My problem is not that...

6

there's a sunrise.

7

My problem is it goes from pitch

black to middle of the day.

8

It, like, goes from midnight to noon,

while Vanessa

9

Kirby has a literal countdown

clock on her back

10

Killing me.

11

You guys.

12

Robby, you're going to be killing me

in a second, but I need you to say

13

the last half of the last sentence

that you wrote where you said

14

people should know that this is a movie

that strains credibility.

15

It's a film.

16

So going into the scene.

17

So going into the scene,

people should know that

18

it's at the end of a movie

that strains credibility.

19

And this scene is no different.

20

Love strains credibility.

21

Great.

22

Give me one more.

23

Okay. The words you wrote, please adjust.

24

The words are.

25

Going.

26

Well, I was trying to make it make sense.

27

I tell you what is happening.

28

Then tell me.

29

Help me understand,

and I think you're wasting time.

30

I tell you, we ain't going to

want to be here when this thing goes off.

31

Set for 45 minutes.

32

We Actually, everyone's going to die

cause I am the virus.

33

my name is Zoe Learner Ontario,

and I am the manager

34

of the Spacecraft Planetary

Image Facility at Cornell University.

35

Cool.

36

Are you going to be honest

about why you did this?

37

It's mostly to prove me wrong, Zoe.

38

Just so you know,

I don't know that you've been warned.

39

But mostly this is a years long debate

that he went to.

40

To scientists to try to prove me wrong.

41

So I can't wait.

42

You're

basically like my birthday present. Zoe

43

Hobbs and I might ask that.

44

Yeah. Ask what was the movie?

45

It's Hobbs and Shaw, so, like the Fast

and the furious, Hobbs and Shaw, okay.

46

And I love that movie.

47

It is bonkers.

It doesn't make any sense. It's insane.

48

Right? Like, And I'm in for all of it.

All of it. Right.

49

But we watch it

and the the sun rises too fast.

50

Not none of this movie is believable.

51

I believe all of it.

52

You get to the end and we have Vanessa

53

Kirby strapped

with an actual clock on her counting down.

54

So we know. Exactly.

55

So it's not that there was like,

56

oh, the battle went on for a long time,

and now it's the middle of the day.

57

It's like there's a literal clock strapped

to her, which I think was added late.

58

And I think that they were filming

and then they ran out of time.

59

And so we this is where

we have this continuity error.

60

But it's, it's basically

like the dead of night.

61

They have fire torches.

62

It is pitch black, dark, dark, dark.

63

And then all of a sudden

64

the sun's like halfway up in the sky

and she has a clock on her.

65

That sounds like 23 minutes.

66

And I'm like that I can't

I can't abide that.

67

Like, if you're gonna bring

in the rules of reality

68

I need, like,

we're not in reality in Hobbs and Shot.

69

But the minute you start to bring

in reality, you give me a countdown.

70

You give me real sky on that I like.

71

I just, I call, I call bananas.

72

So that is where this fight comes in.

73

Cause like, I think you just are, like,

ethnocentric about your sunrises

74

because you've been sitting in North

America all your life, thinking,

75

you know, things

and maybe it's different, in the location

76

because I think they're like,

yeah, they're they're at.

77

Yeah, they're very.

78

Very near the equator.

79

So he's so he's determined to prove to me

that the sun can rise

80

faster.

81

We have already done

82

a full episode going in-depth

about the entire film, Hobbs and Shaw,

83

because it was

and is Jaclynn's birthday movie.

84

This whole film is the rock

and a cadre of hyper athletic.

85

I'll say hottie Patani is.

86

Doing.

87

Superhuman feats of strength for an hour

and 20 minutes until Jaclynn

88

and I admit that I am being reductive

this year, but Jaclynn was taken

89

out of the story

by a shot of what I'm calling a sunrise

90

that she thought It's a sequence,

not just a shot,

91

and it's a sequence that goes from pitch

92

dark to middle of the day in ten minutes.

93

am on the side that scientifically

94

part of this scene could happen.

95

This level of pseudo scientific detail.

96

Virgo an.

97

Excuse to celebrate Jaclynn's

birthday and Virgo season writ large.

98

By proving her wrong.

99

Baby.

100

Like the Taurus.

101

Cole fucking is.

102

But, you're going to get

103

a breakdown

of the climactic scene of the least

104

loved movie in the Fast and Furious

franchise.

105

If you're looking into

the beautiful psychoses of Virgos

106

and an interview about sunrises

107

It's not about the sunrise.

108

especially so Jaclynn and Robby know

109

exactly how perfect you are

for this question.

110

Can we get a little bit

of your background, please?

111

Sure.

112

So I originally, came here

113

to Cornell as a graduate student in 2002,

114

and I was on the Mars

Exploration Rovers mission

115

as the Spirit and Opportunity Rovers,

the first full rover mission to Mars

116

I was on the science team,

so I was part of the team that would look

117

at what the rover had done and decide

what we wanted to do next with each rover.

118

and then I found myself

with this mission, volunteering repeatedly

119

to be part of NASA,

outreach and go visit schools

120

and do radio interviews

and all sorts of public things for them.

121

And And then nine years ago,

this opportunity opened up to be

122

the manager of the Spacecraft Planetary

Image Facility back here at Cornell.

123

And our mission is to make sure

that spacecraft data, spacecraft

124

images are accessible and understandable

and contextual to everyone.

125

My specialty is teaching people to do

mapping on non earth bodies,

126

that's amazing.

127

Zoe, I did not do my background

research, for one,

128

because I would just show up

even more intimidated than I already am,

129

and Cole withheld all of that,

I think knowing, but I would

130

I would geek out too hard.

131

So I my job is like, for those of you

who are just listening,

132

my jaw is literally not literally, but

metaphorically and very much on the floor.

133

if it makes you feel better.

134

I had that moment along this whole path

when I was finishing my undergraduate

135

and applying to grad schools,

and when I got the call from Cornell

136

telling me that they wanted to offer,

you know, admission,

137

I asked, well,

what would I work on if I went there?

138

And it was Steve Squyres, the Pi,

the whole head of the Mars rover mission.

139

And he said, well,

we're about sending these Mars rovers.

140

Would you like to be part of that?

141

And I really thought I remember

142

was don't drop the phone

because I was just like, what?

143

What did I just hear?

144

You wonder if if, if,

145

if in asking that question, they

146

actually expect a response like,

no that's okay.

147

Do you got anything else?

148

Yeah.

149

Well, you know, I, I had been convinced

I was going to go to Harvard.

150

I had done a summer internship there,

and that was my number one school.

151

And they actually got back to me

152

before Cornell

and said that I had been accepted there.

153

So I was all like, okay, I'm

going to Harvard.

154

That's it.

155

And Cornell was the last school

to get back to me, and that was the offer.

156

And I was like,

oh, well, wait, I at one point

157

just looked at the Harvard,

dean and said, do you have a mars rover?

158

Yeah.

159

I was gonna say, where's your Mars?

160

He was like, no.

161

I was like, well, I guess, but it's a no.

162

And I went to Cornell.

163

sometimes we get tied up in continuity.

164

whether or not one shot

165

makes sense coming after the shot

before it and the shot after that.

166

what I think you should know

going into hubs, which are the movie

167

or what I knew going in

to have some shot of the movie

168

was that it was a spinoff of the Fast

169

and Furious franchise,

and it had Jason Statham in the Rock.

170

I don't think I would have said it

out of my own, but

171

Jaclynn loved it,

brought it for us to watch.

172

So I watched it, and going into the scene,

people should know

173

that this is a movie

that strains all credibility

174

And it's amazing.

175

Yeah.

176

If you're going to strain credibility,

strain it this way.

177

Yeah. Yeah. This is the way to do it.

178

It's just you can't play with the sun

like the sun is the sun.

179

If you're going to use the real world.

180

I'm living in the real world's rules.

Everything else is like.

181

Clearly, its own world of rules.

But this is.

182

This is the sun.

183

It's just so basic of physics.

184

It's like we're the sun,

the moon, whatever planet you're on

185

and whatever star you're orbiting

and whatever moon you have.

186

There are illumination rules here.

187

I was like,

188

no, no, there's no there's some things

that just have to be true at all.

189

These for This is the way

light Shines has got to be one of them.

190

Just because we're talking about,

191

being, like,

taken in or taken out of a story,

192

how accurate do you need

the science to be in a film or TV show

193

for you not to be distracted

I thought about this question quite a bit,

194

and I don't think it's a firm

answer I can give, but I think it

195

highly depends

on the quality of the movie.

196

I think that the better the storytelling.

197

I'm one of those a good story,

but even more than that,

198

if it's a TV show, characters

199

you have to get me with, characters

I'm invested in with a movie characters.

200

But the story's got to be good,

and I look at times where there were

201

significant science mistakes,

and yet it didn't pull me out.

202

Those are movies where generally

I really like the movie.

203

It's gripping, especially as I think

204

when you get into highly emotional moments

where you really have been pulled

205

in, either you're very scared,

you're very excited, you're very angry.

206

Whatever the case may be.

207

And I think because then your brain

is focused more in the emotion center

208

and not that prefrontal cortex cognitive

that I'm less likely to notice things.

209

I mean, they have to be pretty egregious

before I will notice in that state.

210

Yet if I'm watching a bad movie, then

I'm already sitting there nitpicking it.

211

And so there are movies

that I have pretty much sat there through.

212

The whole thing. Like,

so much of this is wrong.

213

And not to throw

anyone under the bus of opinion.

214

A great example of

this was the movie gravity.

215

I think after we got home from watching

that, I talked for

216

about 45 straight minutes to my spouse,

about all the things that were wrong.

217

It took me that long to go through

everything that had happened.

218

the only good thing I can say about that

219

movie was that I usually don't

really get much out of 3D movies.

220

That one,

though, was a movie to see in 3D.

221

So that's about the only thing

that I can give that movie.

222

But just At one point

I see things like the Earth

223

is spinning the wrong direction

or the orbital.

224

But the worst part,

the worst part by far, was

225

when you know they're holding on to this

tether between the two of them,

226

they're not moving

and there's tension on it.

227

And he's like, you have to let me go.

228

And I'm like,

where's the tension coming from?

229

You're all floating in space

230

and can trust this, though,

with the scene in The Martian

231

where they're tethered together,

they're spinning.

232

Yes. There,

now you've got a centripetal acceleration.

233

Yes. There's going to be a lot of tension

on that line.

234

So, yeah, there's always that moment,

like the moment where the movie

235

completely lost me and oh my God,

that was definitely that moment.

236

But so I think about like whose opinions

I care about as like a creative.

237

And I feel like I could,

238

I could take a lot of crap for my work,

you know, and I'd be like, that's fine.

239

It's fine.

240

If I heard you being like,

where was the tension?

241

I would feel like I failed.

242

This thing in the wrong.

243

I got the wrong thing.

244

Yeah.

245

Robby?

246

Were you in or taken in or out by

247

the scene that we're discussing today?

248

Yeah, I was in from the beginning

of that scene and never left.

249

I was also in from the beginning

250

and through the hours have specific

251

and scientific reasons now to be in.

252

Okay. All right.

253

I'm so happy.

254

I agree with you the scene goes on

far too long for it to be a morning sun.

255

Post sunrise light,

256

but I do think that the scene itself

could start

257

in total darkness,

and then five minutes later.

258

Be we could

259

You can bring in all the scientists

you want and try to, like,

260

get me confused because they're smart

and they're cute

261

and they're saying funny things

and I don't even know how to act.

262

It does not change the fact.

263

That it's not a sunrise problem.

264

It is a 12 hours worth of day problem.

265

So you were still out.

266

I mean, I love this movie.

267

I've watched it three times in a row

because I even tried.

268

I was like, I guess maybe

this is first light, maybe this is Dawn.

269

Like I was really trying.

270

I like I did see the, the,

the shot of the sun differently

271

from a different perspective.

272

So I was really trying to like

make it work, to prove you right.

273

Cool.

274

I was actually looking for ways

to prove you right.

275

But that also meant that I spent.

276

I'm still spending all of my time

thinking about the lighting,

277

so. Yes. So I was out.

278

I still love the movie.

279

like, all of these way more

unbelievable things happen.

280

And I'm just like, yeah, that that tracks.

281

But not you, not the sun.

282

What are some of the most

unbelievable scenes that come either

283

before or after the scene in Hobbs

and Shaw that we love?

284

The Rock picking somebody up with his one

bare arm while driving on a motorcycle.

285

It's like somebody's

286

like to two of them driving

and the rock just reaching out his arm

287

and picking him up.

288

I mean, whole plot.

289

So like, Vanessa Kirby's character,

like implanting a disease

290

and putting a timer on it, the like,

it'll get back out by 30 minutes.

291

everything the cars do.

292

That.

293

They like drive

that big circle of fire around

294

and like they shut down,

like the technology.

295

We're just supposed to buy it

because it's a MOA.

296

And then, that,

297

like chain of cars that goes right, like

it's like it hooks to the helicopter

298

and then it, like, chains down

and they're all trying to hold them down

299

while they're, like,

spinning around the cliffs.

300

I mean, there's not a believable

moment in this film.

301

But. What?

302

can I say one more thing.

303

I'm sorry I respect so deeply

that they didn't film

304

that on a soundstage, Kelly McCormick

is the greatest producer on the planet.

305

She's she's a badass.

306

because that's what's happening

is it's just they filmed it actually,

307

like, on location using literal light.

308

And that is what happens, right?

309

Like it's a huge, expensive,

310

crazy scene full of people and stunts

and so of course.

311

And so I respect because you could control

the lighting down to the minute

312

if it was on a soundstage.

313

And I love that.

314

It's not I love that

it's like it was clearly filmed outside.

315

And also,

316

I think a lot about the late.

317

I wouldn't want them to change it, though.

318

Going in,

319

you need to know it's a it's

an offshoot of the Fast and Furious.

320

I feel like that speaks volumes.

321

It's not

just a best of yours is an offshoot.

322

And going into the scene.

323

I don't know, it's the big showdown scene.

324

It's like the big showdown,

the bad guy versus the good guys. And.

325

There's a countdown clock

strapped to Vanessa

326

Kirby's character,

and they're going to fight to the death.

327

And they're in Samoa, which I think

is important to call because.

328

That's. Because of science.

329

So it's in Samoa.

330

Samoa is very near the equator. Yes.

331

am on the side

332

that scientifically part of this scene

could happen.

333

The number one thing

I want to say about the sequence

334

is that I didn't notice

the sped up sunrise when I first

335

saw Hobbs and Shaw, because I was enjoying

the action, following along.

336

I only thought about it

when Jaclynn brought it up.

337

And upon rewatching it,

I still don't mind.

338

I think I'd mind it

if I didn't buy into the movie,

339

because I'd be busy

trying to take it apart.

340

I like this movie though,

so I recognizes inconsistencies

341

while giving it its leeway to do

the thing that it's doing.

342

So actual question when was the last time

that each of you were like,

343

either you're in or out of something

because of a small detail?

344

Ted Lasso season four.

345

The most recent example is Ted Lasso

season four.

346

one of the women goes into the locker room

and goes exuberantly

347

unlimited free tampons

and, like, does a dance.

348

What man wrote that scene?

349

I love an unlimited free tampon,

but we don't just go around exuberantly

350

shouting it in our locker rooms

and doing dances around it. not.

351

Women I know.

352

I don't know if this is an example.

353

I don't have an example from a movie, but.

354

I saw George

Clooney do an espresso commercial.

355

I love this.

356

And and I was like, what the.

357

What the hell is he doing?

358

Doing what is George Clooney

doing an espresso commercial like?

359

I will watch any commercial

and just go to the end,

360

no matter how stupid a commercial is,

361

I'm just like,

okay, it's a commercial, Zoe

362

Saldana does like a T-Mobile

commercial, and

363

I don't bat an eye,

but George Clooney does, an, like,

364

an espresso commercial,

and I'm like but he's so classy.

365

And. And the Nespresso machine,

it's like a pod coffee maker,

366

which is the opposite of classy, And it.

367

Really upsets. Me.

368

I can't wait for you to hire

someone to prove Robby wrong.

369

Somehow I'm off.

370

coal.

371

What about you? Yeah. What about you?

372

I was extremely out when I was exiting

373

Adam Sandler's anus.

374

What is.

375

What is.

376

Oh, interesting.

377

Uncut Gems?

378

Oh, interesting.

379

So in Uncut Gems,

there's a shot where you're Wow.

380

Like how you described the sperm in

Look who's talking.

381

I wasn't going to say that,

but that's even.

382

Well, what are you going to say?

383

What else is that?

384

Something else does. Dream.

385

That's right.

386

I've erased that from my memory.

But that is.

387

That is where I made the.

388

The connection.

389

The reminded me

That would really pull me out.

390

I would I would not expect that shot

to happen in Uncut Gems.

391

Yeah.

392

It's like the amount of work

393

that this movie is going to do

to bring me back in is gargantuan.

394

But you left it didn't you?

395

In the end finally.

396

But A in the end.

397

Nice.

398

Jack Ryan I. Think.

399

I would admit that I would love that,

that by.

400

Not me.

401

when we were talking,

402

on our intro call,

it seemed like you had a thing with moons

403

where you can't let go of the of the moon

in that sense.

404

That's why

405

if you could tell Jaclynn and Robby

how you feel about moons in movies.

406

I really don't know how this started.

407

Or when it started, though.

408

After our call, I developed a hypothesis.

409

But I.

410

Anyone who watches TV and movies with me

now knows that there will be this moment,

411

the moon will be in the scene,

and all of a sudden you'll hear from me.

412

The moon is wrong The moon is wrong

The moon is wrong The moon is wrong

413

or. I just like, I can't not notice it.

414

I see a moon,

415

especially a moon that I can tell

is not an actual in the actual shot.

416

Whether it's an animated series

or it's obviously been CGI

417

in whatever the case may be.

418

Hi. Hi.

419

Hello, everyone.

420

If you're new.

421

My name is Rhonda.

422

If you're not new,

you may also know me as, your boss.

423

Or your boss's boss.

424

But before we get.

425

Get started with this week's on hand

stand up.

426

We just have a little bit of

427

housekeeping

428

because I keep an open door

429

policy

that I don't really talk about much,

430

but which was pointed out to me yesterday

by long time ago FM family member,

431

because Zoe, the ever vigilant

432

ever, excellent.

433

Zoe politely wanted to point out

to the entire Oxfam family

434

that the moon is wrong.

435

So I think she's talking about

months of work.

436

Not in every film,

but just in many of them.

437

The moon is wrong.

438

So this is what I

439

my hypothesis

is that this this relates back to college

440

and my Astro Astronomy 101 intro course,

and we learned the section about,

441

you know, the mechanics

of the solar system and got to that exam.

442

And the first question on the exam

was something to the effect of,

443

okay, the moon is in this phase

and at this position in the sky with this,

444

you know, at this constellation

in the sky, what time of year is it?

445

And I remember just staring at that, like,

how in the world am I supposed

446

to get the year from knowing

where the moon is and what phase it is in?

447

And my brain just broke a little bit

and I ended up skipping the question.

448

I had no idea.

449

So I went to the professor afterward

and he explained it to me.

450

And then I felt so stupid.

451

I was like, oh yeah, because if I know

452

the phase of the moon,

then I know where the sun is.

453

And if I know

454

where the moon is in the sky,

then I know where the sun is in the sky,

455

and therefore I know what season it is

like, I think, or clicked in my head.

456

So I think maybe that might be why

I can't let go of this.

457

Because now my brain

has really locked into knowing exactly

458

how the moon in the sky, in the sun

operate.

459

Do you

460

So if you tell me two of those things,

461

I can tell you

exactly what the third one will be.

462

That's what is the response

when you do this of the people

463

that you are watching the

movie with or the TV show?

464

I think

for my family, they, they just kind of

465

chuckle and, you know, life goes

on, they like, oh, there she is now.

466

I think also it's like

467

if a moon appears, they almost

like kind of look over at me like, yeah,

468

that's it. Right. Is it. Right.

469

Well, and so, few of my friends though

if I've not watched movies with them,

470

they're just like, what?

471

What do you mean?

472

I'm like, we'll talk about later.

473

I to do call and I talk about this.

474

I don't know if we talk about a lot,

but I was once in London

475

and I was talking to call on the phone

and I couldn't find the moon.

476

I was like, I was on a bridge.

477

And it was just unobstructed sky.

478

And I went out looking for the full moon,

and I couldn't find it.

479

Like I was like,

there's a glitch in the matrix code.

480

There's no moon. Like they forget.

481

They forgot to hang the moon in London.

482

And I always think about like,

if you had been there,

483

maybe you could have just

been like, it's over there.

484

It's going to be to your east, babe.

485

And I actually, I did have a friend reach

out to me with the moon question once.

486

And it wasn't about the phase

of the moon, but it was during winter.

487

And she said, well, I was just outside

looking at the full moon.

488

And it was pretty late at night.

489

And she said, I noticed how high

it seemed to be in the sky.

490

And she was like,

it might just imagining things,

491

but it seemed like it was really high

in the sky compared to like in the summer,

492

because I'm like, crazy.

493

Is this real? Well,

I said, no, it's totally real.

494

And the way to think about it is

if you're seeing a full moon, right, then

495

that means the moon is on the opposite

side of the Earth from the sun.

496

And and so we're seeing the moon fully

lit by the sun.

497

Well, during the winter,

the northern in the northern hemisphere.

498

Right. We're tipped away from the sun.

499

And that means we are tipped

toward the moon.

500

So the moon is high in the sky

in the winter

501

time, in the same way that the sun is high

in the sky in the summertime.

502

We're just tipped in the other direction.

503

She's like, oh, there we go.

504

The moon is higher

in the sky in the winter.

505

Cool.

506

Jaclynn,

507

do you remember her thought experiment

508

of the North Pole versus the North Pole?

509

Thinking about the sun versus standing

at the equator, thinking about the sun?

510

Like,

could I could I tell it to you right now?

511

You mean.

512

I don't mean that.

513

I just mean.

514

I do remember it, but I couldn't, I,

515

I would struggle to articulate it

in this exact moment.

516

what would you expect to be different

517

about a sunrise or sunset

or the perception of a sunrise or sunset?

518

In like astronomy terms,

519

if you're in NYC versus Los Angeles versus

520

the equator versus Samoa. No.

521

Yes. Or your, your, thought experiment,

522

you blew my mind with of the North Pole

or the South Pole.

523

Right.

524

So yes I know this is, this is the initial

drag me in to settle this debate.

525

I definitely think that, yes,

where you spend a lot of time is going

526

to influence a lot about what you think

527

about natural phenomenon,

including what's going on in the sky.

528

I, I had the opportunity

a few years ago to go to Australia,

529

and I was most excited

about getting to see the southern sky,

530

look up and see totally different stars,

and also to see the moon upside down.

531

Because, you know, of course,

532

you know, there's no upside

down in the sky or space.

533

But the fact that like, there is a sense

that if the moon is, you know, over here

534

between the horizon and the Xena's

over here, that that's right side up.

535

Of course, when you're in the southern

hemisphere, that's inverted.

536

And so you,

537

you suddenly don't think about

how much you've assumed

538

the moon always looks that way

until you go somewhere else.

539

And it's it looks upside down.

540

So for sunrises and sunsets, thankfully,

this is a very mechanical

541

and geometric problem.

542

And I even did a little more digging

543

after we initially spoke,

just to make sure that I had this right.

544

So the fastest the sun can possibly rise.

545

And so I'm just going to use rise here

because it's the same with set.

546

The fastest it can do that is if you are

at the equator on one of the equinoxes,

547

because then that's when the Earth's axis

is straight up and down

548

compared to the direction of the sun.

549

And that means the sun

is just coming straight up.

550

And so that's

551

of course the fastest you can do it,

as opposed to coming up with an angle.

552

All right. That

553

runs about

554

two minutes from the start to the finish.

555

I think I saw one that calculated at 128

556

seconds is the fastest

you can get the sun up.

557

So then Cole asked me the question, like,

well,

558

would it be different other places and

how could it be different other places?

559

And, this is where I went

into my mathematics background,

560

because one of the things you do in

561

mathematics to understand

something is maybe take it to an extreme.

562

So I said, okay, I'm going to take you

to the north Pole also on the equinox,

563

and you're standing there

at the North Pole,

564

and the sun is right there

horizontal to you.

565

So if you were, say,

on perfectly flat terrain,

566

then you would see the sun half above

and half below the horizon at that moment.

567

And as the day went, it would just travel

along the horizon, half up and half down.

568

And so you'd essentially have

an infinite sunrise or sunset.

569

And yet they actually have calculated

these long sunrises and sunsets

570

and measured them in terms of like days

that they might

571

last as you are really

in the extreme latitudes.

572

And so I told cool, like, well,

if it if it's infinity at the pole

573

and it's two minutes at the equator,

then logically it must be increasing

574

steadily

as you move from the equator to the pole,

575

which means as you do, that sunrises

and sunsets are going to gradually

576

get longer and longer,

and they also get longer.

577

The more angle the sun is rising.

578

So during winter you're going to have

slower sunrises and sunsets

579

simply because you're moving at a diagonal

instead of straight up and down.

580

So yeah, they'd be kind of a cool sight

to see the

581

at the poles and just watch the sun

go around the horizon.

582

Never rise, never set.

583

Wow. It's like I

584

knew it's different,

but I didn't, I didn't I didn't know that.

585

I didn't think about that.

586

listen to you to take it apart

587

and sort of come to terms with

it is much more interesting.

588

Like is it or did

we just kill the joy of a good movie?

589

No, no, no.

590

I don't think so.

591

I don't think. So.

592

Robby's like, I didn't even think

about it till Jaclynn pointed it out.

593

Yeah.

594

No no no I didn't I like I really didn't.

595

And I think that,

596

to me, it's an act of love.

597

And that's peak Virgo

to pick something apart and be critical

598

out of it, out of pure love.

599

For it. Yeah.

600

Yeah.

601

And and I don't know

that it's really pure like,

602

I, I don't know that it's pure love

that makes you do it.

603

I think it's pure something.

604

And that something is what makes you love

movies and or things in the first place.

605

I think, like anything,

I give that depth of attention to is

606

because I care, like I give.

607

You know, I think that my attention is

is like the one limited thing

608

we have, right? Our time and attention.

609

So if I'm giving something that much time

and attention, it's because I care.

610

And I also see its like potential,

like it's like it could have been perfect,

611

like the opposite of Love

is indifference, right?

612

So it's like to give something

as much time and attention as means.

613

I actually care a lot,

like if I was indifferent.

614

There's a lot of things out there that

615

mess stuff up and I don't care at all.

616

the number one thing I want to say

about the scene is, and kind of the film

617

in general is I love it

just the same, but I can't stop thinking

618

about the how and the why,

and it just is super noticeable.

619

And I still love it.

620

I watched the the scene

and then I just watched the film again

621

and I can have a critique

and still love a thing just the same.

622

Yeah. Callie.

623

But the number one thing

that I want to say

624

about.

625

The fight scene climax to Hobbs and Shaw

626

is that.

627

after hearing you

go beats by beats and actual cut by cut.

628

Understand where.

629

We, crossed wires and

630

where you were.

631

You weren't wrong. And you were

632

right.

633

I'm sorry.

634

Could you say that into the microphone

one more time?

635

Just make sure that got recorded.

636

Oh, we're going to make him say it

three times.

637

You didn't.

638

He didn't say it was right.

But he did say I was not wrong. Yeah.

639

If you could say that three times.

640

Call just just for the recording.

641

With different emphasis.

642

Theatrically, please.

643

Yeah.

644

But not wrong.

645

Wrong.

646

We're not.

647

Wrong.

648

See? One.

649

But with sincerity.

650

Difficult.

651

You were not wrong.

652

Oh, okay.

653

Carry on, carry on.

654

So just need to hear it for the pod.

655

And for the final.

656

Or how would you say it?

657

For the.

658

For the way that we exit the sequence.

659

You were completely right.

660

The sun.

661

Oh, is way too high in the sky

compared to any measure within the.

662

Ten minutes. For

663

the stupid counter double, for sure.

664

And it's hard to be super duper

behind the science slash

665

lived experience

of having shot sunrises at the equator

666

and be like, oh crap.

667

It Co was dying to drop that

668

cuz you held that to the very end

and then you were like,

669

by the way,

when I was, filming at the equator

670

Behold. Satalia.

671

I'm here in the Galapagos

and we are going to behold

672

all sorts of wildlife.

673

I was astounded at how quickly

674

you go from day to night and night to day,

and our mutual

675

the only argument that I know, argument,

the only.

676

Minor disagree.

677

Oh. Stressful moment.

678

Yeah.

679

The only stressful moments.

680

With the with it all was

681

shooting with the sun

682

setting, on the horizon.

683

The right behind the host.

684

Like the exact same concept of a shot of.

685

Nope.

686

We need to see the full circle of the sun,

687

and then we need to see it break

the horizon.

688

Okay, go take as long as you need it.

689

You have seven seconds.

690

I can't believe you didn't

pull this out earlier.

691

I can't believe you've saved it

this long to.

692

I have blocked that trip out of my head.

693

I can't believe you've held it

this long to be like.

694

By the way, my lived experience

of shooting on the equator.

695

Let me tell you the story that I did

tell you once, Jaclynn.

696

And you should remember this exact drama.

697

I can't believe you held it.

698

This. I can't believe you.

699

I should have seen this coming.

700

I walked myself into this trap.

701

I can't, I can't even believe it. He.

702

He did

703

with scientists.

704

Yeah, Robby.

705

We nickname each other's friends.

706

And so he went.

707

The nickname I have for

this woman is scientist.

708

So that's why he keeps me like

when I went with scientist.

709

This is the. Okay,

710

because there were other scientists,

but it was also scientist,

711

which is how I've known her for years.

712

Yeah, she's like the on camera voice

713

of a thousand history

and, like, Travel channel

714

cut to a quick segment

explaining this very seemingly simple

715

but kind of complicated piece of science

that no one else, not no one else.

716

But it's apparently very hard

to explain science

717

succinctly,

and I did not approach until I saw it.

718

Like, actually, she's. Very good at it.

719

Going down behind her and her being like,

you fucked up that last shot.

720

I'm like, no, I didn't fuck it up.

You just said Morgan.

721

And I thought not of Morgan Freeman,

the Morgan you were talking.

722

I was. Talking

about this. Morgan. This like

723

Jasper Morgan,

724

She was like, shut up.

725

And the sun was gone.

726

It's all take all the time you need.

727

You have seven seconds.

728

I have to keep looking.

729

At the sunset.

730

One second.

731

I'm trying.

732

Going, going, going, going.

733

That's good.

734

So, Morgan, we came to the Galapagos

and we listened to the animals.

735

And what did we learn?

736

Writing your special purpose is finding

your place in the world.

737

Feeding your soul, feeding your body,

738

finding what makes you happy.

739

And honestly, that all depends on you.

740

also two minutes is such a long time

on film, right? Yes.

741

It's an eternity.

742

And a lot of people talked, when I, like,

was looking up like, wounds being wrong.

743

Like none of the pics of mine

were on there.

744

They were all like, these really big ones,

people have pointed out.

745

And one of them, and even you pointed

this out, was the movie set,

746

which I have,

I've honestly not watched in years.

747

It's on that list of movies

748

I want to get my kids to watch,

and so that's why I haven't rewatched it.

749

I've been waiting for that moment

750

and but thinking back on

what I remember of it,

751

there was somebody that was trying to say

the moon was wrong, and they actually

752

someone explained that they were wrong,

but it was wrong in a different way.

753

So apparently in the scene

in the shed outside,

754

you know, so it's evening

or like not too late at night

755

and there's a crescent moon up

and I'm like, yeah, okay,

756

you know, maybe it's a little too late,

but sure, Crescent

757

moon over the horizon,

pointing in the right direction.

758

Right.

759

You have to have the crescent pointing.

760

It's like Artemis is bow, right?

761

The bow has to be

she has to be pointing it toward the sun,

762

to shoot her twin brother, Apollo.

763

I don't know, but there's a reason

that Artemis, goddess of the moon,

764

is always depicted with silver bow.

765

Because you can use that to look

at the moon and tell where the sun is.

766

Because if you imagine

that the edge of the moon is the bow,

767

then you're always pointing

that toward the sun.

768

So as long as the crescent, right,

769

the smile is pointing down

toward the horizon, then you good.

770

The air comes in that.

771

Then you have the iconic scene

with the full moon with them flying.

772

But in the movie,

that's like three days later,

773

you're like,

774

you know, the phase of the moon

does not change that fast.

775

And then I again,

I'd have to go back and watch it,

776

but then another thing occurred to me,

because when they're

777

having the chase scene and they first

take off, it's evening, right?

778

And I mean, yeah, the sun's clearly low

in the sky, but it's still daylight.

779

And then the next thing you know,

they're riding across the moon.

780

Now it's a full moon close to the horizon,

which is correct.

781

Right.

782

The full moon rises as the sun sets.

783

So that seems right.

784

But yeah, like you said at the time,

I was like,

785

wow, it got to night really fast there.

786

How long has he been flying on these?

787

I would, I did as a little Jaclynn.

788

I didn't catch that

but I would now I would.

789

Yeah, yeah.

790

Now you're gonna watch it like darn it.

791

Now it bothers me.

792

That's so interesting

because it's, it's also like

793

when you're, I,

I don't know much about cinematography,

794

but what you're also describing is like,

I can justify it to myself

795

as like a series of paintings

or a series of images.

796

That one leads to the next to these

and next thing you know,

797

and you're

trying to propel the narrative forward.

798

So you need these things in order to

in order to get from point A to point B,

799

but the it's also occurring to me,

not only the more you know about movies,

800

the more you pick them apart,

801

but the more you know

about specific topics

802

the smallest thing

is going to pull you out of it.

803

If it's like I call him that, I call it,

that's not right.

804

And you know, I'm

it's like science fiction versus fantasy.

805

You know, it's a blurry line, honestly,

and how much

806

you want to take yourself out of that

sometimes.

807

One thing that I will do is

I will just say, okay, look,

808

just imagine that this is an alternate

universe.

809

Yeah.

810

Imagine that this is not the timeline

that you're on.

811

This is just a slightly different timeline

where this is the case.

812

And, you know, considering that

even the biggest physicists say, yeah,

813

there might be

814

the multiverse might be real, I'm like,

okay, I'm willing to entertain that.

815

That, you know, that you're dealing with

some sort of alternate timeline.

816

You know, we get that with shows

that reboot in alternate timelines.

817

You're like, okay, now

we can just do everything differently,

818

and we don't have to be super accurate

because we have all of these things.

819

So that's one way

I can also kind of take myself and like,

820

okay, okay, just suspend

this isn't this world.

821

You were so like enjoyable movies like

822

I feel that way about like,

the Marvel Universe.

823

Like, I love Marvel movies.

They're not all great.

824

I certainly don't love

every single one of them.

825

I have my favorites,

but it is one of those, like you said,

826

you go

in, you're going to have a good time.

827

It's going to be fun.

828

And I'm not sitting there of course, in that genre, really trying to nitpick things

829

I'm going to ask both of you,

830

like a one liner response.

831

It's not a philosophical question.

832

It's a joke.

833

Question

because of how outlandish this movie is.

834

But what.

835

You don't find.

836

Is this is news to me, friends.

837

Yeah. Crazy.

838

I thought it was a documentary. Yeah.

839

I mean, who told you that?

840

Yeah.

841

What are you talking about, girl?

842

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but,

not.

843

Yeah. Not wrong facts.

844

Wow. You're going to be very confused

845

by the actual question that.

846

Is, quote unquote,

847

science fiction, meaning,

some people have said

848

just because it happens,

space doesn't make it science fiction.

849

As, as Zoe said.

850

So what is what is science fiction to you?

851

And is Hobbs and Shaw more science

fiction than Star Wars?

852

That's.

853

Oh, I'll just put it on record.

854

Hobbs and shot is more sci fi.

855

And. Then Star Wars.

856

Will go on record.

857

Yeah.

858

Ravi, do you have a, retort to

what is science

859

fiction to you?

860

I never thought about it.

861

I just always thought that science

862

fiction took place in space.

863

That.

864

And then we talked to Zoe,

and she was like.

865

like I grew up

being more of a fan of Star Wars.

866

I really was not into Star

Trek as a child, but I could like,

867

sit there and recite with sound effects

all three of the original trilogy.

868

And then I got into Star Trek later,

869

and it's not that

870

I now don't like Star Wars,

but I appreciate the fact that Star Wars

871

this is a I'll die on

this hill is not science fiction,

872

it is venture fantasy

that takes place in space.

873

And so I have this like rule where I think

874

a lot of people assign science

fiction to movies for the wrong reasons.

875

And so see if I can remember all

for just because a movie takes place in

876

space has a main character

that's a scientist, involves aliens,

877

and or time

travel does not make it science fiction.

878

And Marvel is a great example

879

of that, because I think endgame checks

all those boxes.

880

And that is not a science fiction movie.

881

So I'm like, no, you know,

we have to have a standard here

882

before we just call something

science fiction.

883

And it really kind of calls

back to the OG, right?

884

Frankenstein.

885

Mary Shelley

wrote the first sci fi, story

886

where she took the science

that was happening at that date

887

and extrapolated it somewhere to express

a concern over things.

888

It's an amazing.

889

If all you have ever seen

her movie adaptations go read the book.

890

I did this in high school.

891

I got to pick,

892

and I wrote this beautiful essay

I loved called Frankenstein Feminism.

893

I quoted I brought Jurassic Park into it

because I'm like, Jurassic Park is

894

the same story just told with dinosaurs,

but it's the same exact score,

895

like it's scientist who didn't

stop to think whether they should.

896

Wow, only focus on what that they could.

897

And I was like, these two movies

cover the same thing.

898

So seeing those parallels and really

899

then thinking about what do we call

science fiction, what is science fiction?

900

What is not science fiction?

901

And if you can then say, okay,

this isn't science fiction,

902

then you can loosen up a bit. You're like,

oh, well, this is fantasy.

903

This is just an adventure.

904

You know, I don't sit there and nitpick

back to the future, right?

905

It's like, no, well, we're we're totally

playing around with stuff and you can say,

906

look, you know, this is a physics

that someone discovered that we have it.

907

Sure.

908

Okay. Not the point of the story, right?

909

The story is set into motion

by time travel,

910

but that's not the point of why

they're telling the story.

911

And then it doesn't

require the same science rigor.

912

I was. Exactly yeah.

913

I think you said something earlier, which

really resonated with me too, which is

914

how much people care.

915

Like there's sometimes those feel like

they're not trying at all.

916

And so I think to your point, like,

is there a world being built?

917

Is there care like

is there thought behind the choices?

918

The choices may not be scientific,

but is there a thought behind the choice

919

or is it careless?

920

And I think you can feel that in film

sometimes.

921

So yeah, it's like I didn't

922

even think about it, but I needed

a, I needed immune to the like,

923

oh, this is a really cinematic moon

and it looks gorgeous.

924

So we chose it or we built this world

in a way that, like,

925

I can release, I can pretend it's

a different one, like in this world.

926

That's true.

927

That's

kind of how I feel about Hobbs and Shaw.

928

Like, I don't know what world that lives

in, but I.

929

I can live in that

world where that can be true.

930

how this

931

because you for the past

three months have been like,

932

she didn't.

933

I don't in any way see that I'm wrong.

934

Even though you brought this astronomer.

935

Just do this thought experiments for me.

936

Like you were like, you just don't.

937

I'm still right.

938

She's still right.

939

When the scientist is like, 128 seconds.

940

But now I understand

941

your biggest beef is about time.

942

After that.

943

It is? Yeah.

944

And I thought that the sun

was in a different placement

945

when we see it for the first time,

but it is on the horizon.

946

It is framed in a way

that my brain didn't register.

947

when you watched it this last time

and you began to understand what,

948

like its relationship to China Beach and

when you were saying, like in this shot,

949

it looks like the sun

might be coming up a little bit,

950

but then you go back to the rock

and it's dark.

951

Was that because when you were watching

it, you like,

952

paused it, broke it down,

really gave it some thought.

953

Between the different cuts.

954

So I, I think I understand your question.

955

So previously I've watched it

and it's bothered me

956

and I've gone every round

and I've watched it

957

and I've sort of broke it down

bit by bit, like in

958

previous times,

which is how we got to this. Right? Yeah.

959

And then going into it

960

this time I watched it in a way,

trying to prove myself wrong.

961

So I was trying to say, okay, like,

let's say core is right.

962

Like it, how am I wrong?

963

So I went in it from the frame

of trying to prove myself,

964

like actively

trying to prove myself wrong.

965

Okay. Yeah.

966

In an effort to defend myself.

967

And so that is how I did.

I saw the perspective different.

968

Like I saw that that sunrise

on the horizon shot

969

different. It was like,

970

oh, I literally had been looking at that

from a different perspective.

971

instead of trying to prove myself right,

972

trying to prove myself wrong,

which was very helpful.

973

It's cool.

974

I don't know if this will be true

after I rewatch things, but it seems like

975

this time you implemented

976

the scientific method

977

I taught public speaking and debate

and that's like.

978

That's the whole, like,

979

you do the debate

980

and you have to rate the like,

counter argument, like you have to do it.

981

That's it's like it's literally how.

982

Yeah, yeah.

983

It's an important thing to do.

984

Like understand the other side

985

so fully you could argue it yourself

and then it strengthens your own argument.

986

We need to do more of that as a society

frankly.

987

Yeah.

988

Perhaps some of us.

989

I remember

990

like having people do theater games

991

and I know this is a

992

the change didn't happen this fast.

993

But like I have so many memories of like

go to theater game.

994

Have people say a thing that they believe

strongly like let them have their say.

995

They say their arguments,

then go back around and have everyone

996

defend the exact

opposite of their argument.

997

And I have many memories of,

oh, that's a really helpful exercise.

998

And then

999

since I don't know when,

01:49:20,666 --> 01:49:23,875

I have not felt safe

asking people to do that,

01:49:23,875 --> 01:49:27,708

and they've been like, fire this guy.

01:49:30,208 --> 01:49:31,333

Like. It's.

01:49:31,333 --> 01:49:34,000

There are people in the world

that think the opposite of you.

01:49:38,333 --> 01:49:38,583

Okay.

01:49:38,583 --> 01:49:41,583

So it opens. It's pitch black,

01:49:42,125 --> 01:49:42,708

very dark.

01:49:42,708 --> 01:49:45,875

Not dawn, not first light, pitch black.

01:49:46,250 --> 01:49:46,750

And they get.

01:49:46,750 --> 01:49:50,083

They get ready for Idris Elba

and all the baddies to show up.

01:49:51,041 --> 01:49:52,541

We're sorry.

01:49:52,541 --> 01:49:55,541

Some more.

01:49:56,750 --> 01:49:58,250

Cool.

01:49:58,250 --> 01:50:01,166

Cool.

01:50:01,166 --> 01:50:04,166

My go go, go. Are.

01:50:05,666 --> 01:50:08,666

More my love scene.

01:50:08,958 --> 01:50:11,958

Let go, I let go.

01:50:12,708 --> 01:50:15,708

So we are.

01:50:15,875 --> 01:50:18,875

Do it, Vanessa Kirby Hattie.

01:50:19,000 --> 01:50:22,583

she injects it into her body, and she has

30 minutes before, like she'll die.

01:50:22,708 --> 01:50:25,708

Like she can get it back out in 30

minutes, but she, like, injects it in.

01:50:25,916 --> 01:50:28,375

And then the baddies show up

and they start to fight.

01:50:28,375 --> 01:50:31,708

And here's where I'll start to say

when you were looking

01:50:31,708 --> 01:50:35,958

so like the Rock kind of makes this big,

he's like, come get us.

01:50:35,958 --> 01:50:37,916

Fight my family, right?

He sort of does that.

01:50:37,916 --> 01:50:41,291

If when we're on shots of

the Rock, it is pitch black

01:50:42,291 --> 01:50:42,625

again.

01:50:42,625 --> 01:50:44,875

Not for slate, not done.

We're not coming towards the day.

01:50:44,875 --> 01:50:47,833

We're like, we're midnight ish.

We're like pitch black.

01:50:47,833 --> 01:50:49,333

But then when we take the reverse shot.

01:50:49,333 --> 01:50:53,375

So we're looking at like Idris Elba,

I will concede that

01:50:53,375 --> 01:50:55,333

perhaps we are at dawn,

01:50:55,333 --> 01:50:58,208

that there are sort of

like you can kind of see like a bluish

01:50:58,208 --> 01:51:01,208

light behind them,

come back to the rock pitch black,

01:51:01,500 --> 01:51:05,250

and then we see Jason Statham, like

driving this big ring of fire around Ray.

01:51:05,250 --> 01:51:08,583

And they like, there's all this fire

and like, the sort of war starts

01:51:08,833 --> 01:51:13,333

pitch black, but then kind of like

inner shot with I do see, I will concede

01:51:13,750 --> 01:51:18,583

perhaps some like Danish shots

where like there is some light coming up.

01:51:18,583 --> 01:51:22,458

It's like there's sort of dart

like lighter blue at the horizon.

01:51:22,541 --> 01:51:25,000

And then Idris Elba goes, get my chopper.

01:51:25,000 --> 01:51:28,791

And then we cut to this like chopper

scene, which I will also now agree.

01:51:28,791 --> 01:51:30,791

I had always seen the way it is.

01:51:30,791 --> 01:51:34,750

The way it is framed is

the sun is in the middle of the shot.

01:51:35,791 --> 01:51:36,833

What was that TV show?

01:51:36,833 --> 01:51:38,541

Robby? about Vietnam.

01:51:38,541 --> 01:51:41,541

And it had, like, this woman named Dana.

01:51:41,666 --> 01:51:43,958

And it was like in the 80s. Yes.

01:51:43,958 --> 01:51:47,666

It was, Because it has, like, a helicopter

This.

01:51:47,666 --> 01:51:48,125

Is kind of.

01:51:48,125 --> 01:51:51,333

Jaclynn China Beach, tiny beach. Yeah.

01:51:51,416 --> 01:51:54,416

Don't worry. It's got a really. Yeah.

01:51:54,625 --> 01:51:55,500

So the shot of.

01:51:55,500 --> 01:51:57,583

Robby, she's pulling him out of it.

01:51:57,583 --> 01:51:59,166

Pulling it from. Yeah. We're doing it.

01:51:59,166 --> 01:52:02,125

So the shot it goes to the chopper

and the chat.

01:52:02,125 --> 01:52:05,375

The way it is framed is like

the sun is in the middle of the shot,

01:52:05,375 --> 01:52:09,666

and the chopper is, like, flying towards

camera with, like, in silhouette

01:52:09,666 --> 01:52:12,375

with the sun behind it.

Very kind of beach like.

01:52:12,375 --> 01:52:16,375

That's like the China beaches, as

I remember, is my little tiny childhood.

01:52:16,875 --> 01:52:18,000

That's like their whole logo.

01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:19,750

And that's just a very China Beach thing.

01:52:19,750 --> 01:52:21,625

And in the middle of the sky.

01:52:21,625 --> 01:52:24,916

It's like it's supposed to invoke,

like the hotness of Vietnam

01:52:25,125 --> 01:52:26,916

because aren't they

in Vietnam? It's called China Beach.

01:52:26,916 --> 01:52:28,083

But isn't aren't they in Vietnam?

01:52:28,083 --> 01:52:32,000

Yeah, yeah, it's Yeah, yeah,

a Vietnam War field hospital.

01:52:32,791 --> 01:52:38,083

So it's supposed to sort of evoke

that like hot day sun So in my mind,

01:52:38,083 --> 01:52:42,250

I have always seen that shot as being

because of the way it's framed.

01:52:42,250 --> 01:52:44,958

The sun is in the middle,

that it is the middle of the day.

01:52:44,958 --> 01:52:45,708

And that that is

01:52:45,708 --> 01:52:49,458

where I get taken out because I'm like,

01:52:49,583 --> 01:52:54,375

I concede today that what is actually

happening is it is on the horizon.

01:52:55,708 --> 01:52:57,333

to yes.

01:52:57,333 --> 01:52:59,041

Cool.

01:52:59,041 --> 01:53:01,166

So for

01:53:01,166 --> 01:53:04,250

let's say, five years, you've been

01:53:05,875 --> 01:53:10,708

remembering, a shot from another media

01:53:11,583 --> 01:53:14,583

putting it into this sequence.

01:53:14,916 --> 01:53:17,916

I mean, they both exist, but I yeah, yes,

01:53:17,916 --> 01:53:21,000

I was it was,

it was impacting my perspective.

01:53:21,250 --> 01:53:24,458

So I couldn't see this shot

as being on the horizon

01:53:24,458 --> 01:53:26,458

because the sun was in the middle

and the chopper was there.

01:53:26,458 --> 01:53:29,458

I could I, I saw is all sky.

01:53:30,000 --> 01:53:30,833

I think it's one part

01:53:30,833 --> 01:53:34,250

because of China Beach and one part

because of the way it's framed.

01:53:35,083 --> 01:53:38,416

It's still like there are still shots

that are way too dark,

01:53:38,791 --> 01:53:40,458

but there are some dawn shots.

01:53:40,458 --> 01:53:42,541

And then now we are just.

The sun has just risen.

01:53:42,541 --> 01:53:44,458

I'm okay. I'm still fine, fine.

01:53:44,458 --> 01:53:46,666

And Samoa has the fastest sunrise we've.

01:53:46,666 --> 01:53:48,416

Now we've proven that true. Sure,

01:53:50,333 --> 01:53:50,916

You know.

01:53:50,916 --> 01:53:52,125

Then.

01:53:52,125 --> 01:53:55,125

But then

01:53:56,041 --> 01:53:58,041

we all of a sudden it's

just the middle of the day.

01:53:58,041 --> 01:53:59,083

It is so bright out.

01:53:59,083 --> 01:54:00,833

And this is where, like,

I want to challenge you called

01:54:00,833 --> 01:54:02,875

because, like, truly,

you are a lighting master.

01:54:02,875 --> 01:54:07,166

You are a cinematographer, like,

you know, lighting and you know, the sun.

01:54:07,166 --> 01:54:11,791

Like, you literally take like, apps

that measure where the sun will be

01:54:11,791 --> 01:54:15,000

so you can get the best photography

shots and like, you know, where

01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:19,041

the moon is compared to rooftops

so that we can shoot on them.

01:54:19,041 --> 01:54:22,375

So like, I just

I respect you more than this.

01:54:22,875 --> 01:54:24,416

The the disagree with me.

01:54:24,416 --> 01:54:27,958

The lighting is overhead

by the end of the scene.

01:54:28,416 --> 01:54:32,208

And so even if I'm going to say sure,

it was sunrise, sure it was done

01:54:32,208 --> 01:54:36,458

and I don't I'm uncomfortable with that,

but I will, I will, I will try

01:54:36,750 --> 01:54:39,458

still, by the end of the scene, it

01:54:39,458 --> 01:54:43,875

in the afternoon,

01:54:43,875 --> 01:54:47,125

like that sun is way too high for it

to still be morning.

01:54:47,541 --> 01:54:51,708

And like, I think you have to agree

with me or you're lying.

01:54:52,291 --> 01:54:56,541

So let's say we're in lockstep as far as

01:54:58,416 --> 01:55:01,541

height of the sun onscreen.

01:55:03,125 --> 01:55:06,166

If we had coverage and continuity

01:55:06,833 --> 01:55:09,833

as if it were filmed

01:55:10,375 --> 01:55:13,375

like a documentary.

01:55:14,000 --> 01:55:17,000

Pitch black right before dawn,

01:55:17,833 --> 01:55:20,000

sun breaks

01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:22,708

dawn to become sunrise.

01:55:22,708 --> 01:55:25,708

But then one shot

01:55:25,875 --> 01:55:30,583

later, 15 seconds later, after it's

sunrise.

01:55:30,583 --> 01:55:33,583

Sun is just peaking and

01:55:33,916 --> 01:55:36,916

the sun has not broken

all the way over the horizon.

01:55:37,291 --> 01:55:40,083

15 seconds later in movie time.

01:55:40,083 --> 01:55:41,500

It is sunrise.

01:55:41,500 --> 01:55:45,250

Every everything agrees that at sunrise

one shot later 15 seconds

01:55:45,250 --> 01:55:49,625

later in the film it is sun placements

01:55:50,291 --> 01:55:53,041

01:55:53,041 --> 01:55:54,291

Correct.

01:55:54,291 --> 01:55:56,250

For the purposes of.

01:55:56,250 --> 01:56:00,458

This seems like lived experience,

reality and science.

01:56:00,916 --> 01:56:05,208

Sunrise at the equator happens

so much faster into 11 a.m.

01:56:05,291 --> 01:56:07,791

that it's scary.

01:56:07,791 --> 01:56:11,583

But what you're saying is

100% could not be true.

01:56:11,583 --> 01:56:15,958

Or like the angle has gone up

by 25 degrees in one shot.

01:56:16,625 --> 01:56:17,791

Period.

01:56:17,791 --> 01:56:20,791

The movie thing I want to say

though, is The fact that they have

01:56:20,791 --> 01:56:22,166

this shot of the sun

01:56:23,333 --> 01:56:24,500

does everything for my brain

01:56:24,500 --> 01:56:26,666

to be like, great,

I don't have to worry about the audience.

01:56:26,666 --> 01:56:28,166

They will be fine.

01:56:28,166 --> 01:56:30,250

And that is that was your argument before.

01:56:30,250 --> 01:56:33,291

Like from a moviemaking perspective,

it's like once you've said, the sun's up,

01:56:33,583 --> 01:56:34,916

the sun just gets to be up.

01:56:34,916 --> 01:56:35,375

If they.

01:56:35,375 --> 01:56:38,208

If they remove the timer, I don't

01:56:38,208 --> 01:56:41,000

I don't know why I get obsessed

with the things I get obsessed with.

01:56:41,000 --> 01:56:43,625

Like there's a thousand things I let go

and I don't think about.

01:56:43,625 --> 01:56:46,541

And then like,

this will be the thing that I like,

01:56:46,541 --> 01:56:48,291

will obsess about forever.

01:56:48,291 --> 01:56:51,291

what has gotten me so stuck is

I want to stay in the night longer,

01:56:51,958 --> 01:56:54,291

and I want to stay in to the dawn

like dawn is such,

01:56:54,291 --> 01:56:56,583

such a beautiful time to shoot and like

01:56:58,000 --> 01:56:59,833

it. Like I want more of that.

01:56:59,833 --> 01:57:02,833

So when it just becomes

the like, really bright direct sunlight,

01:57:04,083 --> 01:57:07,041

I'm just disappointed

because we're like in Samoa

01:57:07,041 --> 01:57:09,708

and we have all of this

like fire and all of this, like, stance.

01:57:09,708 --> 01:57:12,708

And so I just

I wanted to stay longer in that, but I.

01:57:14,208 --> 01:57:18,208

Imagine that is heart, you know, like

that would have been very expensive.

01:57:18,208 --> 01:57:21,833

It probably would have like doubled

the price of this extremely expensive

01:57:23,250 --> 01:57:25,916

scene, you know,

like you're not going to reset every day

01:57:25,916 --> 01:57:28,541

for three nights,

like the studio does that. Right.

01:57:28,541 --> 01:57:31,125

And in our oner episode,

they just keep it.

01:57:31,125 --> 01:57:33,958

They I think they filmed it at sunset

01:57:33,958 --> 01:57:36,916

every night for like four nights

in a row, 3 or 4 nights.

01:57:36,916 --> 01:57:40,333

But it's also in one location

inside, right?

01:57:40,333 --> 01:57:43,250

Like it's not this, like extravagant of a

01:57:44,750 --> 01:57:45,416

it's not this

01:57:45,416 --> 01:57:48,416

many people doing this

extravagant of stunts.

01:57:49,333 --> 01:57:50,875

The continuity.

01:57:50,875 --> 01:57:53,750

Like I'd be complaining about continuity

because I'd be like

01:57:53,750 --> 01:57:56,208

the rock had a gash on his face

and now he doesn't.

01:57:56,208 --> 01:58:00,625

Or, you know, like, But

the drastic shift of late, to me just is,

01:58:01,791 --> 01:58:04,791

is always stuck out.

01:58:05,166 --> 01:58:08,291

In a film that lets me lose myself

so completely right.

01:58:08,958 --> 01:58:11,166

Saying,

01:58:11,166 --> 01:58:14,458

yeah, now

I understand who actually understand that

01:58:15,125 --> 01:58:19,708

it's the angle of the sun post sunrise,

how quickly morning becomes midday.

01:58:20,500 --> 01:58:23,291

That's like freaking you out.

01:58:23,291 --> 01:58:26,291

I can't do anything but say

01:58:26,833 --> 01:58:29,166

literally true.

01:58:29,166 --> 01:58:32,166

But, You're also the person that.

01:58:33,458 --> 01:58:35,041

Obsesses about things

01:58:35,041 --> 01:58:38,041

in such a nonsensical way that.

01:58:38,291 --> 01:58:41,291

Yep. When Virgo season baby.

01:58:43,083 --> 01:58:45,541

When I was helping you move.

01:58:45,541 --> 01:58:46,625

Oh, no.

01:58:46,625 --> 01:58:49,458

We spent years getting to the point of.

01:58:49,458 --> 01:58:50,208

In general,

01:58:51,458 --> 01:58:54,458

Jaclynn doesn't care about music.

01:58:55,291 --> 01:58:57,375

Cole cares about music.

01:58:57,375 --> 01:59:01,583

But it would be nice to have something

in the background while we sit in.

01:59:01,958 --> 01:59:03,916

Otherwise silence.

01:59:03,916 --> 01:59:05,708

Throwing out.

01:59:05,708 --> 01:59:06,333

no big deal.

01:59:06,333 --> 01:59:09,458

I can go pop into your computer,

pull stuff up.

01:59:09,916 --> 01:59:11,500

I pull up

01:59:11,500 --> 01:59:15,708

a playlist that you have called

Jaclynn's favorite songs.

01:59:16,250 --> 01:59:18,458

And you were like, oh no, you.