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Personalizing Learning for All Staff and Students – A Conversation with Eric Sheninger and Niki Slaugh
Episode 30 • 17th July 2024 • Digital Learning Today: Where Productivity Meets Innovation in the Classroom. • Jeffrey Bradbury & Diane Manser - TeacherCast Educational Network
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In this episode, Jeffrey Bradbury interviews Eric Sheninger and Nicki Slaugh, authors of the book 'Personalize: Meeting the Needs of All Learners.' They discuss the importance of personalized learning and how to implement it in schools. They emphasize the need to identify each student as an individual and provide experiences that are engaging and challenging at their own level. They also highlight the significance of celebrating student wins and creating a culture of personalization. The conversation explores the concept of starting with your 'why' and empowering both students and staff. Eric and Nicki share their experiences and strategies for implementing personalized learning in their schools. The conversation focuses on the theme of personalization in education and the importance of creating a culture that meets the needs of all learners. Nikki Slaugh, a principal, shares her experiences in transforming her school to a personalized learning environment. She discusses the implementation of a mastery tracker and mastery minutes, which allow students to set goals and receive additional support as needed. The conversation also emphasizes the role of leadership in creating a culture of personalization, including providing time for collaboration and professional learning. The importance of feedback, accountability, and building relationships is highlighted. The journey of personalization is described as a continuous process of improvement and adaptation. If you are a new listener to TeacherCast, we would love to hear from you.  Please visit our Contact Page and let us know how we can help you today!

In This Episode …

  • Establishing a culture for personalization (risk-taking, collaboration, feedback, professional learning)
  • Purposeful use of tech aligned to high-level thinking and relevance
  • Use of high-agency strategies (voice, choice, path, pace, place)
  • Data and AI-enhanced teaching & learning
  • Establishment of relationships

Conversation Takeaways

  • Personalized learning involves identifying each student as an individual and providing experiences that are engaging and challenging at their own level.
  • Celebrating student wins is important for building confidence and creating a culture of personalization.
  • Starting with your 'why' is crucial for both staff and students to understand the purpose and value of personalized learning.
  • Empowering students and staff involves giving them voice, choice, and leadership opportunities in the learning process.
  • Personalized learning is not about putting every student on a device, but about building relationships, relevance, and maximizing learning time.
  • Removing points and grades can help shift the focus from accumulation to actual learning and mastery of skills.
  • Effective implementation of personalized learning requires a shift in mindset, a focus on student agency, and a commitment to continuous improvement.
  • Personalized learning is about unlocking the potential of every student and providing tiered supports to meet their individual needs.
  • The role of leaders is to create a culture of personalization, lead by example, and provide support and resources for teachers to design personalized practices.
  • Personalized learning is a journey that requires ongoing reflection, adaptation, and collaboration. Personalization in education involves creating a culture that meets the needs of all learners.
  • Implementing tools like mastery trackers and mastery minutes can help students set goals and receive additional support as needed.
  • Leadership plays a crucial role in creating a culture of personalization, including providing time for collaboration and professional learning.
  • Feedback, accountability, and building relationships are essential components of personalization.
  • The journey of personalization is a continuous process of improvement and adaptation.

Chapters

  • 00:00 Introduction and Overview
  • 04:24 The Importance of Personalized Learning
  • 09:51 Starting with Your 'Why'
  • 10:34 Celebrating Student Wins
  • 17:21 Shifting Mindset and Culture in Schools
  • 20:40 Creating a Culture of Personalization
  • 22:54 The Role of Artificial Intelligence in Personalization
  • 25:31 Empowering Students and Teachers
  • 29:09 The Journey of Implementing Personalization
  • 39:15 Embracing Your Why and Making an Impact

Check out Their Book on Amazon!

About our Guest: Eric Sheninger

Eric Sheninger works with schools worldwide, helping educators meet and exceed their potential to improve learner outcomes. He is the founder and CEO of Aspire Change EDU, a collaborative consultancy designed to provide personalized support to all educational systems. Before this, he was a teacher and the award-winning Principal at New Milford High School. Under his leadership, his school became a globally recognized model for innovative practices. Eric oversaw the successful implementation of several sustainable change initiatives that radically transformed the learning culture at his school while increasing achievement. His work focuses on innovative and practical ways educators can transform teaching, learning, and leadership.  Through his work with thousands of schools, Eric has emerged as an innovative leader, best-selling author, and sought-after speaker. His main focus is using research, evidence-based practices, and artificial intelligence (AI) to empower learners and educators.

Links of Interest

About our Guest: Nicki Slaugh

Nicki Slaugh is an energetic, transformative leader in education, known for her visionary impact as a secondary principal. She has reshaped school culture by emphasizing personalized learning tailored to each student's unique needs and integrating technology strategically to enhance individual potential. Nicki's innovative methods, such as implementing proficiency scales, developing rubrics, engaging students, self-paced learning pathways, empower educators and students alike. Her advocacy for student autonomy and learner agency has gained widespread acclaim. With a career spanning over two decades, Nicki began as a classroom teacher for kindergarten through third grade before assuming roles as an instructional technology and curriculum coach for grades K-9. In her current position, she continues to inspire a lifelong passion for learning among her students and staff, driven by her unwavering commitment to educational excellence and innovation.

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Transcripts

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Hello everybody and welcome to the TeacherCast Educational Network. My name is Jeff Bradbury. Thank you so much for joining us today and making TeacherCast your home for professional development. This is Digital Learning Today, episode number 30, a show for educational technology enthusiasts and digital learning leaders. On today's show, we're going to be talking to the authors of a brand new book that I am excited about. I had a chance to peruse this thing and check it out. It's all called Personalize Meeting the Needs of All Learners. We're going to learn how to start with your why.

how to build that culture and how you guys can have a fantastic school year coming up. I'm looking forward to this conversation. Don't forget to check out out the ending of this there's going to be something special for you guys at the end of this. If you haven't had a chance to check out everything over at teachercast .net we have had a ton of great content coming out all around the ISTE conference 15 ,000 educators all got together in Denver Colorado to celebrate student achievement and teacher professional learning.

Check out all the great stuff over at teachercast .net slash YouTube today. And of course, like and subscribe for more information. I want to bring on today two guests. One of them I have known from literally the beginning of TeacherCast. As you're listening to this, we're actually celebrating our 13th anniversary. And a long time ago, I reached out to this kind of guy on Twitter, this kind of celebrity, if you will. I know he doesn't like that term.

but this kind of celebrity from my home state of New Jersey and said, would you like to come on my show? And the guy said, yes. Well, I've been following his coat tails ever since. And I want to bring on today my good friend, Mr. Eric Schoeniger. Eric, how are you today? Welcome to TeacherCast.

Eric Sheninger (:

You know, Jeff, I'm doing great, but you know, I gotta say something. You know, everyone has a podcast these days, but before everyone else, there was you. You know, I feel that you were one of the, if not the pioneer in podcasting and it makes me even more proud.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Is that anybody else? Is he on mute? Am I on mute?

Eric Sheninger (:

Can you hear me? Can you hear me?

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Testing. Eric, are you on mute?

Nicki Slaugh (:

I can hear you.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Nikki, can you hear him? I can't hear him at all.

Nicki Slaugh (:

I can hear Eric, yes.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

I can't, why am I not hearing you? What just happened?

Nicki Slaugh (:

Can you hear me?

Nicki Slaugh (:

Do you hear me, Eric?

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

It was like a perfect intro. Why am I not hearing anybody right now?

Eric Sheninger (:

Yeah, no, I hear you, Nicky.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

I am not hearing anybody.

testing one to

Eric Sheninger (:

We hear you. Where's the chat?

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Nikki, can you hear me? Okay, but I can't hear you. So what is happening on all of this? Because I didn't hit anything.

Nicki Slaugh (:

Yes.

Eric Sheninger (:

I can hear you.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Recording general audio.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Brand chat. Why am I not hearing anything?

Eric Sheninger (:

is the chief.

Nicki Slaugh (:

The chat, it's over on the side because I was going to write him. Tell him that we hear each other. You see it on the side of the studio chat.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

something had to have just happened road. Testing either. Okay. Something just happened. Okay. You did hear me do all the intro, correct? Okay, so let's just pick it up. I somehow I didn't hear you at all. I don't know how but I hear you guys now. All right.

Eric Sheninger (:

Here we go.

Nicki Slaugh (:

Yes.

Eric Sheninger (:

Yes. Can you hear us?

Eric Sheninger (:

And do I sound OK because? OK.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

You sound okay. I don't know what just happened. But anyway, I'll cut all that out. Let's just pick up from Hey, Eric, how you doing? Welcome to teacher

Eric Sheninger (:

my intro was, my intro of you was epic, Jeff. It was epic, but I'm going to do it again. Don't worry. I got you covered.

Nicki Slaugh (:

intro about YouTube.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Please have me covered. Here we go. Eric, how you doing today?

Eric Sheninger (:

Jeff, I'm doing great, but I'd be remiss if I didn't share a fact. You know, everyone today has podcast, but who was doing it before everyone else? You. And it makes me so proud that we're both from the Garden State. Whether you prefer Springsteen or Bon Jovi, it doesn't matter, I'm Bon Jovi. But Jeff, you know, thank you for ushering in this era of podcasting.

because you know what, people can learn so much from you. It's an honor to be here this evening.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Eric, thank you so much. I appreciate everything that you have supported me on over the last I'm going to keep saying this 13 years and today you have brought a colleague with you tell us a little bit about our next guest today.

Eric Sheninger (:

Well, I will, I mean, listen, she's gonna introduce herself, but so many people are good at talking the talk. Everybody says what they're doing. It sounds awesome. But then walking the walk and that's, nah, room for growth. Nikki is walking the walk and she is here because when I was fortunate enough to coach in her school the past two years, the things that I saw in her school far surpassed.

things that I've seen at scale anywhere else in the world. So Nikki, take it from there.

Nicki Slaugh (:

my gosh. So yeah, that was kind of how we met. When we met, we were at a school that we were both working at at the time and they introduced us. And so he had the opportunity to hear me speak to a specific school board and share my why and my vision and my beliefs towards personalization. And so after he pulled me back and he was really impressed with everything I said, but he did that same little line. He's like, well, you can talk the talk. Can you walk the walk?

So I was like, then come to my school to see. So that's kind of how we started our friendship. And obviously I've listened to him speak and stuff and realized that we were two peas in a pod and had the same vision and our philosophies aligned. But yeah, he challenged me. And so I took that challenge and said, come out to Quest Academy in Utah. And then, you know, we've been besties ever since. But I have actually been in education 23 years. So I've taught elementary, kindergarten, first, second, third.

As well, I was an instructional coach for four years to work with teachers and then eight years in a secondary setting as a principal. But I loved every single minute of it.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

You know, I love that story. I was curious on how a guy from New Jersey met somebody from Utah and put it all together. But guys, thank you so much. Eric Schenegger, Nikki Slaw on today to talk all about their book personalized meeting the needs of all learners. And I got to start off right now personalized. I think that's probably the best topic of a book I've ever seen. And coming from an instructional coaching background. Also, Nikki, making learning something that's individualized for everyone.

is imperative, especially today, I still believe that we need to do group learning and you know, whittle things down a little bit. But Nikki, what is it about creating personalized learning that is so important?

Nicki Slaugh (:

Just identifying each student as an individual, identifying their strengths and their weaknesses and their interests, as well as identifying where they're at based off their data. So when you look at all those different aspects as a teacher or a school, providing experiences for them that they will be engaged in and that they will actually challenge them at their own level. Does that make sense? So just really getting to know each person at our school, whether it be teacher or student, as a leader, you just need to get to know all of your staff, all of your students.

Identify their strengths, figure out what you value about them, and then take time to personalize how you work with each individual.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

But Nikki, I'm gonna stop you here. I had 190 kids last year. How do you do that?

Nicki Slaugh (:

You move yourself away from the front of the classroom. So you can't read, it has to be student centered. Once you move yourself from that front of the classroom and you provide through digital learning, say flipped classroom or create playlists or create choice boards and give variety of different ways for kids to learn that frees you up to build a walk around, use instant data that you're receiving through the practices and the assignments that they're doing.

to where you can actually sit down, have a conversation with them, provide them feedback, get to know them. So the trick really is just moving away from that front of the classroom, then you have a full class period to meet the needs of those kids and get to know them.

Eric Sheninger (:

Jeff, I'm gonna jump in a minute because I think it's important to talk about what it's not. Because here's the thing, yeah, you say 190 kids, we get it. But let's talk about impersonal. Impersonal is all students doing the same thing at the same time, the same way. We know that doesn't work. A one size fits all approach, at best, will target a third. Personalization is all students getting what they need.

when and where they needed to learn. But to your point, I have 190 kids, there is not one right or best way to personalize. There are effective strategies rooted in student agency, voice, choice, pack, pace, place. And what we set out to do is to empower educators like you to find your way. Because when it comes down to learning,

There is not just one way.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

One of the ways that I was able to be successful this year is by celebrating the wins trying to figure out what is successful about each of my kids to the best of my abilities. This is something that of course you bring up in the book. Why is it important for both staff and students to acknowledge those little victories and why can that be the kindling for something that's much greater?

Eric Sheninger (:

Yeah, I'm gonna kick it off and then Nikki does some specific things in her school to celebrate student wins. But here's the thing, there's no such thing as a small win. A win is a win. And guess what? We can't be shooting for the home run every time. That's not realistic. But what we want to do is we want to honor success. We want to honor growth. So for me, I look at, you know, not for me, for Nikki and I.

You know, we look at student voice as a gateway, as a win to charting, to beginning that journey for personalization. You know, empowering all students to be involved during a review of prior learning, a check for understanding, closure, where they could be responding on a whiteboard, they could be drawing on a dry erase desk, they could be using technology, but then the teacher and the leader can involve every student. What does that do? It builds community.

builds self -esteem. It really creates a culture, whether it's a classroom, school, or district. But Nikki, I want you to share, you know, what are some of those, what is that? There's one unique way that you celebrate wins when kids progress at their own pace and master the standards.

Nicki Slaugh (:

So a few of few examples are students in ninth grade math as they master a perfect as they master a standard then they ring a gong and so we have this huge gong in the classroom and they ring it and everyone claps but the thing is it's so loud that everyone in the hallways here also so it's like everyone's celebrating. Another way is students announcing on their intercom as well as we have the some classes have those polaroids where they take selfies and hang it on the wall.

Sometimes I bring balloons depending on the subject and I deliver balloons to the students in front of the class and I tie it on their wrist and they have to wear it all day long. I allow my teachers to be creative in the ways that they celebrate learning. So it's not necessarily celebrating a score or a specific skill, it's learning. So once they've proven that they've mastered a concept and they understand it, no matter what pathway they're on or no matter what level they're on or what grade, it's celebrated. And so throughout the day, there's a variety of ways

that learning is being celebrated by everybody in the school as part of it.

Eric Sheninger (:

Nikki just described the personal and personalized, which is so important. Here's another thing that personalization is not. It's not about how to put every kid on a device, having them use an adaptive learning tool where there's no talking and discourse. It's about those relationships. It's about the personal connections. It's about relevance. It's about building confidence.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

relevance and relationships, I think are the two things that we need to have, whether between principal and staff, or more importantly, staff and students. And, you know, you also talk about this concept of starting with your why. And, and that's something that I've bought into many years ago, when I first took on this middle school position, like the first day, I just kept saying, this is what we're doing. This is why we're here. This is how I'm going to do things. This is, this is the reasoning for it.

Nikki, talk to us a little bit about this concept of starting with your why. How do you do it? Where do you do it? When do you do it? And and how impactful can this actually be? If we're gonna tell our students and staff why we're here.

Nicki Slaugh (:

I just decided years ago to create a hashtag Y quest. And so that was a really easy way to launch it. So I had all of my staff take time in one of our beginning of the year faculty meetings to actually write down their Y. And then throughout the year, all of our ELA classes and our reading classes and our writing classes, all of the students would develop their Y.

They quest and then throughout the day I'm constantly run around and I'm kind of the marketer also So I've got the I've got my phone in the hands and I'll grab the kids in the hall and I'll say hey Let's share with everyone. What's your "Y" I'll be like, hey Johnny What what's your why and then I just video them and then it's just kind of like it just spread through wildfire same with our parents So if I ever have times where I'm meeting with the parents and meetings or their polka our organization Then I would ask them. What is their "Y" So everyone collaborates a little

collaboratively would just develop their why and we're constantly talking about it or posting it or you know just it's just something that we did and we still do that to this day.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

So when you say why is that why are we here? Is that why are we doing this? Is that what what what are the words after why?

Nicki Slaugh (:

So I feel like my teachers had a variety of ways, reasons. They have a variety of answers. So some of them was why did I choose to be a teacher, right? And so they dug deep and really tried to think back what was their first reason why they went to education. Because sometimes when we're having to check all the boxes and jump through the hoops, we lose our why, right? So some of them would go back to that. Where others of them would identify the things that we're doing at Quest that they really love. So I just let them kind of choose.

What their why was, same as the students, some students would focus on relationships with teachers and that's why they're coming. They really love self pacing or they really love the ability to choose how to learn. Others were just personal experiences from a past school that they possibly were bullied and why they come here and they feel accepted and loved. So everyone's was a little bit different.

Eric Sheninger (:

And there's natural connections to personalization. When you think about from a student perspective, the most important question that they should be asking and be able to answer is, why am I learning what I'm learning? That becomes that spark, that natural inquiry to get to the, how will I use this outside of school? So that's where you start connecting it into both relevance and higher levels of cognition. And then what tells me if I'm successful?

The why inspires, the why piques interest, the why motivates, but it has to be connected to the how and the what. Kind of piggybacking off Simon Sinek. From personalized aspect for adults, why do I do what I do? Or why am I doing what I'm doing the way I am? How might I do it better? And what tells me if I'm successful? That why, how and what connect to that personal

in personalized to motivate people to not just find their why, but to discover value in the work, to discover value, which then coming, pulling from the work of Dan Pink and drive these intrinsic motivators, you know, learning for the sake of learning, learning being the reward, not the carrots and sticks like letters, numbers, points.

but I'm sure you're probably gonna ask a question and Nikki will be chomping at the bit to respond because her school got rid of all of those extrinsic factors, which is another key aspect of personalization.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Tell us a little bit about that, Nicky.

Nicki Slaugh (:

All right, year one, I focused on culture, obviously. Year two, I knew that students were just playing the game of school. I played it, right? I'm sure you played it. I realized that all I cared about as I was going through my school years were if to get an A was 300 points, I was gonna get those 300 points no matter what. I had work ethic, I had drive. I was determined to get that A, right? Learning was not the focus. Accumulating points was the focus. So when I finally had an opportunity to be a leader,

And I moved from the elementary setting, which we didn't really focus a lot on points and grades in elementary setting, right? And so when I moved to a secondary setting and I started looking at our grade point averages and I was realizing that students were getting As and Bs and they were on high on roll, but then our state test scores were really low. I was like, there's a disconnect, what's happening? This point system isn't matching what they actually know. Our grading system, what does an A really represent?

Does it represent strictly academics and their knowledge on the standard, or is it mixing in life skills and responsibility, right? So I wanted to separate that, and I also wanted to remove the points because I wanted the conversation with the students to be, like ask their teacher if by chance they didn't pass something, meet with them and get a reteach and ask them to learn it a different way and have time to get to know that student and actually try multiple ways till they pass it.

What I mean is I removed points, created proficiency skills, and then we had a very high standard that if they didn't reach proficiency based off our skills, then they were not allowed to move on. So they had to meet with a conference, meet in conference with a teacher, receive feedback, receive a reteach, and then attempt to pass it again. So.

Eric Sheninger (:

So Jeff, what she basically described was the reason why I had to write this book, because I've never seen a school at scale with no points, no letters, no homework. And they are one of the top achieving schools in the area in the state of Utah in junior highs. So looking at all those pieces, but the main thing was it's not one teacher. And when we talk about culture,

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

the

Eric Sheninger (:

And when we talk about change, it's where you have the majority moving together, trying to achieve a uniform goal that everybody believes in. And personalization could be that catalyst that could instill that belief. Because every single student has greatness hidden inside of them. It's a job of an educator to help them find and unleash that greatness. Especially those students that make us maybe rethink our career choice.

but personalization is about unlocking their potential. It's about providing tiered supports. It's about building relationships. It's about maximizing the time that we have with our students. But most importantly, it is a emphasis on learning and learning is not linear. Learning is a journey. It is a convoluted process.

Nicki Slaugh (:

So.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

I wanted to ask you a little bit about this journey here. You're both leaders, you're both principals or have been principals. It's the first day of the school year. Nikki, walk us through that first conversation that you have. And then Eric, I'd like to ask you to do the same thing. Because I mean, I've seen you as a mentor, I've seen you as a friend, but I've also seen you from the teacher point of view, actually doing one of my convocations, right?

So I've seen you talk about the why to a bunch of strangers. But Nikki, I want you to answer this question first. What does that opening conversation start like when you start to explain the why? How much of it is your heart? How much of it is data driven and your school improvement plan? Is it the combination? Talk to us a little bit about what that looks like from a leader point of view. How are you preparing for that first conversation with your staff when you come back to school?

Nicki Slaugh (:

I'm not a firm believer that it comes from your heart. Obviously I want data and research to back everything, but I do, I always speak from the heart and I feel like when they can feel your passion and your energy, then that helps the buy -in, right? So when, at the beginning of the school year,

Our main focus is finding things we value about every student. And so that's our first focus. Like we have three days of school, the first three days before we dive into procedures and expectations. It's not just the normal get to know you, share your name, what did you do over the summer? It's really taking time to meet each child, find something you value about each child as well as their interest. I've even printed out roles on clipboards and given it to my teachers in years past. So it's really important that first week.

to identify those things because that's how you set the culture and that's also what they're gonna use for when they plan all of their upcoming activities and stuff. So it's finding out what you value about every kid.

On the why, like talking with parents if you're meaning like switching to personalization, all I have to say is what did 18 out of 25 mean to you as a student? What does it mean to you as a parent? It's really simple. A lot of people think it's gonna be hard to get your stakeholders to buy in. All I did is ask them if they play the game of school. We all did. I asked them if the focus was on learning. I asked them what did 18 out of 25 mean to you? I said do you think an A at our junior high versus a school down the road, do you think the A's value the same thing?

and we all agree we all would rather focus on students being engaged loving school students coming to school to actually learn and being motivated intrinsically versus with points so

Eric Sheninger (:

Yeah, I'll go ahead, Jeff.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

was gonna ask what does it look like for you, Eric, when you're walking into a school district that you're not necessarily a part of? How do you kick off the school year by showing what that why could be?

Eric Sheninger (:

Yeah, you know, I'm gonna talk about that, but I'm also gonna reference back to when I was a principal, because, you know, we had to shift the paradigm, moving away from that's the way we've always done it. And, you know, I'm a firm believer that you lead with questions. Questions are more important than answers. There are no experts in the world. I don't care how many books they've written, how many Ted Talks, there are learners, and there are people that take risks. There are people willing to challenge conventional wisdom. So my main question,

to help people find their why is how do you learn best?

How do you describe success? What do you need to be able to move outside your comfort zone? What can you use to determine whether or not you have learned? And I think it's a lot of putting people inadvertently in the shoes of our learners, because let's be honest, the way in which many leaders facilitate faculty meetings goes against

everything that we know about sound pedagogy, stand deliver, going through agendas, lack of discourse, same thing with a teacher and professional development. PD is something that's often done to us. Let's look, come on, we're both from the Northeast, Jeff, we have our two PD days to start the year, maybe one in January, what does that do? And guess what?

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Yes.

Eric Sheninger (:

that people that often complain. We have to ask ourselves, if we're not happy with sit and get, if we're not happy being talked at, how is our practice not different, but more effective for those that we serve? And here's the thing with personalization, it goes back to what you said with your 190 students. Personalization isn't about more work.

Nobody wants more work. Nobody wants another thing. Personalization is about more effective work. And that is about how we maximize the time that we have with our students to support those who need it the most, but also to push those kids that are already there. The why is sitting right in front of us. Why did you become a teacher, Jeff? Why did you become a teacher, Nikki? I'll tell you why I became a teacher, because

teachers made a difference in my life. And I wanted to make a difference in the lives of kids. Kids aren't learning different. The environment in which they learn is dramatically different, which is why personalization is so critical now and in the future, especially, I'm gonna give you an opening, Jeff, especially in an AI world.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Well, speaking of that AI world here, you know, we talked a lot in ISTE about writing prompts. And we talked a lot about not just giving it this thing and then having it do, but actually creating these prompts so that way the AI writes back to you and gives you feedback on things. In chapter three of your book, see the tie in here, it talks all about empowering students. And for many of us, that's different. As you just mentioned, Eric,

We're used to being in a faculty meeting where we're told to do something, the bell rings. Thanks. See you later. Have a good time. Students come in, teacher says something, students do bell rings. It's there. But when we empower something, when we empower our students to make those choices, to choose their learning, when we empower our teachers to give a little bit of leadership back to us, or Eric, when we empower the artificial intelligence to help us out, that is

100 % I believe the right way to do things and it puts everybody inside that circle, not the us versus them. Nikki, talk to us a little bit about how you empower your students and most importantly, how you empower your staff.

I just had a...

Nicki Slaugh (:

try to lead by example, the way I treat my staff, I would like my staff to treat my students. For example, I have very high expectations, right? We do need to identify our power standards, create our proficiency skills, have teacher clarity, provide a pathway and a learning process for our students so they can identify where they're at, like Eri could mentioned earlier. So that is something that I'm not flexible on. We will create our proficiency skills. We will align our assessments to match our proficiency skills. Once that

Once we have created those and I have all of my teachers create those, I don't buy a program that has all of the skills already made. I want my teachers to choose the power standards and create the skills themselves and identify the verbs that they want. So they're creating and designing the proficiency sales. They're taking the resources that I provided for them that they've asked me to purchase and coming up with their assessments. So they do that. But where the magic happens with the students or with the teachers,

is where I tell them they get to design all the practices. All I care about is if that student masters that standard. That is the role that they have. Every student needs to learn that standard. How they get there, I don't care. So with all the ideas in the book, I provide them with all those different strategies as well as tech tools that they can use, but they get to design it. And every single teacher says they feel like I treat them like a professional, and they have voice, and they have choice.

So now I have respect, we have a respectful relationship within each other because they feel heard. So then I tell them to do that same thing with the students. Let's not put our students in a box where everyone does the same thing on the same day. Let's give them those skills that you created. They do have to prove understanding in order to move on because learning's the focus. But let's provide a variety of ways for them to learn, a variety of ways for them to practice. Let's allow them to move at their own pace if they prove proficiency earlier than a different student.

So I feel like it just kind of all goes in a circle starting at the top.

Eric Sheninger (:

So I'm gonna add a few things on her behalf because she's been a little modest. And this is one of the things that really stands out. And Nikki, I just want you to correct the terminology for me as I explain. You wanna talk about empowerment and creating a culture for both students and teachers. She created with a staff member their own mastery tracker.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Yeah

Eric Sheninger (:

They got rid of grades, but you need to replace it with something. Every day, she built time in the schedule where students review their trackers and they set their goals for the day. You talk about time, she gave it to them. but she didn't stop there. There's also a period called Mastery Minutes. Real quick, Nikki, describe Mastery Minutes in two sentences.

Nicki Slaugh (:

Students in their student prep class identify where they need a reteach, where they need additional support to learn something, right? So they're identifying that first thing in the morning, like Eric said, in their student prep class, because students need a prep class just like teachers need a prep period. Then in mastery minutes, they can choose to go to any of the core subjects for a reteach. They can go to a collaboration room to collaborate with their peers. They can go to a peer tutoring room where at National Geo -Honor Society, students will tutor them.

They can go to a makerspace room if they have proven mastery and they just need a brain break or academic fit room where they can go and do physical activity. So we just provide a or an acceleration room that is silent. If they really want to do two years of math in one year, then they would like an additional quiet place to study. So we have collaboration, silence, one -on -one, reteach, small group, you name it. That was five sentences, just kidding. Maybe 20.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

.

Eric Sheninger (:

So what she just validated is that it was more like 15 or 20, but who's quality? So, but what she just validated, Jeff, is she just talked about personalization. You know, all learners getting what they need, when and where they need it. She talked about adult learners and student learners. We created in New Milford, New Jersey, our own learning academies, a school within a school model.

Nicki Slaugh (:

how to talk fast.

Eric Sheninger (:

as a way to personalize. But one other thing that she did is she built time every Friday for professional learning. And that is hands off. I was never allowed to come in on Fridays because she not only built that time in, but she was the lead co -facilitator of it. So I share those examples because when you think about leadership, leadership is...

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Thank you.

Eric Sheninger (:

not telling people what to do, it's taking them where they need to be. Leadership is not about title, position, or power. Leadership is about action. And when you think about creating a culture built on personalization, you have to take risks. You have to build in time for collaboration. You have to be willing and wanting to collaborate. There has to be feedback that is timely, specific, and targeted. And there has to be professional learning.

that is job embedded, ongoing, and has accountability for growth. Sorry, Jeff, that was a mouthful. But, I mean, but hey, you know what? I'm gonna throw it back on you. You know, as you think about all the different hats you've worn, you know, how would some of those changes that, that Nikki has implemented or what I implement as a principal, how would they impact you as an educator?

Nicki Slaugh (:

you

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Well, I think when I'm looking through everything here, you know, you had mentioned in the book, everybody has a unique path of getting there. And it doesn't matter how they show you that feedback you even have listed here, you know, make a video write a blog do a this do a that. And if I'm looking at the last semester of my middle school teaching, you know, we spent some time

teaching them how to write teaching them how to make a video teaching them how to make a presentation and by the time we got to that last marking period, I just said, Look, here's the outline. You show me how you can answer these questions. You show me how you can figure out these prompts. And as an instructional coach, I did the same thing. You know, we spent some time teaching all these little, you know, individual steps. But I just let the teachers slide all around it by the time they got to the end of the year. And I just said, Look, I'm here to help and facilitate. Nikki, the more I hear you, you talk and share your passions with this. I

It's very clear. You must have had an entirely amazing time being an instructional coach with your teachers.

Nicki Slaugh (:

I did and I feel like when I moved, but what was missing was I didn't get to work with the students. And so I loved being a coach and I loved being a teacher. So right now I feel like it's the best of both worlds because I'm one of those principals that are never, I'm never in my office. I'm in those classrooms and in the hallways all day long. So I still get to form relationships and be the biggest cheerleader for all my students, but I also get to be an instructional leader. So I'm still coaching my teachers because I make sure Fridays are like.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Mm -hmm.

Nicki Slaugh (:

my time, right? So it's like the best of both worlds. I could be a coach and a teacher, but also a principal.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

One of the things that you also mentioned in the book, and I'm glad that you did is this concept of meeting diverse needs. Everybody's coming at this in a different location. Everybody's coming at this on that different sides of it. We talked a lot about the innovation curve and making sure that people are on the left and people on the right and how do you keep shifting them over to the left? How do you prepare for a school year, knowing that you've got 90 to 100 staff members all where they're you know, they're all in their individual spots?

You might have four to 600 students that you have to individually hit. Nikki, when you're preparing for this year, how are you making sure that your why is actually hitting all of those heartbeats?

Nicki Slaugh (:

I just think where we meet frequently, and how we've set up their day where I'm meeting with them whole group, I'm also meeting with them with their grade level as well as their subject area. I'm a million places, I will say that, but I feel like where I am part of the discussion and I collaborate with them and we solve problems together in all different areas, I feel like that helps because...

I'm not just in the office, you know, throwing them out, having them solve the problems. I'm actually with them and having all those conversations. So I don't know if that answers your question, but I just think being available for them. I also truly believe teachers, I have teachers and we offer after school tutoring after school till four. So our contracts eight to four, but if a teacher needs help and I'm gone every day at four.

Right? And so I just have this, I, you know, I'm going to stay late with those teachers if they need the help because they're staying after school to make sure they're meeting the needs for our students. I need to be available for them. So I.

Eric Sheninger (:

So I'm gonna add some additional context for her, because this is what I get to see as a coach, as I work with leaders, I get to see their professional behaviors and my job is to connect that back to effective leadership. You know, every new teacher that comes into that school, who is training them? Who is helping them establish that why? She is. She's helping them build the proficiency scales. You talk about availability.

Maybe sometimes, and correct me if I'm wrong, Nikki, maybe sometimes to a fault, she is so available to our staff. She listens, but the other thing when we think about leadership, people wanna feel respected. People want to be heard. People want to feel that you care about them. But the other thing, don't mistake caring for weakness.

Nicki Slaugh (:

for.

Eric Sheninger (:

because the most effective leaders, they will model, they will be the example, but they will also hold people accountable. And that's one thing that I've seen Nikki do numerous times, is she supports, supports, supports, but she will roll up the sleeves and hold people accountable for growth to set the tone that it's not a free for all, that it takes work.

Nicki Slaugh (:

you

Eric Sheninger (:

It takes dedication, but in the end, you can work, you can be committed, you can be held accountable, and you can still love your job. And I think that as leaders, another key tenant of personalization is helping educators love what they do, but they can't love what they do if they don't know why they do it and how they can do it effectively.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

I'm glad.

Nicki Slaugh (:

It's in the interview process. Obviously I did have teachers that were, I went to a school that was, I didn't open a school, right? So I had to transform a school. So the teachers that were there when they hired me to be the principal, they had to decide if they wanted to stay working for me once I shared my why and my vision, right? But since, fast forward to now as I'm interviewing people, the interviewing process is really important.

So obviously I ask them their why I share my why we talk about the vision, but I don't do the interview alone. I invite anyone on my staff to every single interview. Sometimes I have 15 people. Sometimes I have five, just depending after school who is available. If we're hiring for math, I don't care if the science and the history teacher is there because we're a team. We all follow. One of my favorite quotes is to be the 1 % in order to be the 1%. You have to do it 99 % of the world doesn't do right. So

I say that right up front in my interviews, like we are the 1%. I've created a culture where if you're not that 1%, you feel uncomfortable on your own and you remove yourself on your own, right? Because I have a group of educators that are all here for a reason and our why is every student every day no matter what. And so we just lay that out during the interview process. We model it, we speak it. We never talk ill about a student.

ever, there's no whining, complaining, it's never the student's fault. If a student's not learning, what can we do better? Why did we connect with that student? That's what our PLCs are about, is how do we help the student if he's not doing well in this class versus this class? So I think, hopefully that helps, it's just.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

long did it take for that transfer transformation?

Nicki Slaugh (:

Year one I focused on culture and I knew that right off the bat. Removed all the desk. We purchased tables. And we did culture year one, but starting year two, I removed points year two. I went all in. I just said zero points, zero usher credit, zero percentages. Our focus is learning. We're moving from teacher -centered to student -centered. And then each year we took on a different aspect. We actually started with proficiency scales and identifying the competencies and the standards.

Then we worked on self -pacing and then adding voice and choice. So we kept adding things each year, but we did remove points right off the bat. And obviously we had to create our mastery tracker that I designed to fit our students and created the schedule that we did. So that was kind of the first couple of years, but we are continuously trying to improve every single year. And that's why I hired Eric is I had felt I couldn't find anyone in Utah that we could go observe and learn from.

And so it was kind of at this part where I felt like we were doing really well. We were giving tours, but I just needed to go to that next level. And I was fortunate enough to listen to him speak and meet him. And so I thought maybe I'll bring him in and see what he thinks because he's traveled the world.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

What does that look like for you in the context of your whole school district? I'm assuming that not every school in your district is moving in that same direction. What is it like in your principal meetings when everyone's kind of comparing notes and seeing what's going on in everybody's buildings?

Nicki Slaugh (:

Well, I'm fortunate, now people say that I'm lucky because charters can make change faster, right? But I'm gonna share a couple things that I think people forget about charters. So I am fortunate and I am the LEA. So I am the district, right? And the principal. I do have a school board. But I wanna tell you something that people forget about. We are all on a one year contract. There is no 10 year. We are a business. In order to stay afloat, students need to choose our school.

Eric Sheninger (:

Not job for life, Jeff.

Nicki Slaugh (:

People have to drive their kids and drop them off and pick them up. So in order to stay afloat, students need to learn and love school. Our test scores have to be above the state and above the community schools. Or why would someone stop putting their kid on the bus going to the local community school, right? So maybe I don't have as many hoops to jump through, say as a district or other junior highs.

But I have to meet the needs of every single parent that's making a sacrifice to bring their kid to Quest versus put them on the bus, if that makes sense.

Eric Sheninger (:

We're seeing different constraints, but you still, again, we all have different challenges across the world, but in those might look different, but in the end it's, are we willing to challenge the status quo to create a new status quo that's going to benefit everyone in the system?

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

I want to wrap up today with something that I loved about your book, which was called embracing the journey. And you had mentioned earlier, Eric, you know, this is not a straight line. Everything's a little wavy. Everything's a little bit messy. In what ways can we embrace the journey? And in what ways can we allow that journey to help us shape our wise moving forward?

Eric Sheninger (:

We need to show ourselves more grace. There is no such thing as a best way, or necessarily a right way. There are effective ways. We like to challenge the term best practice. If there were best practices, we'd all be doing with a high degree of fidelity, getting amazing results. No, there are effective practices. And we talk about those wins. A win could be a teacher consistently integrating closure.

through the amplification of student voice. So as we look at the journey, the journey has to be personal. We have to be willing to fail forward. We have to be open to feedback. Everyone says they want feedback. Are those people actually open to it? And then will they act on it? The journey is about the people. Education is not a one person.

event. You know, we have to be willing to bounce ideas off one another. We have to be willing to collaborate. We also have to be humble, you know, and you know, when I think about what that means, it's okay to say, I don't know, I need help. Those two, those two explanations are critical in the journey because there is no perfection in education. There's no perfect teacher.

There's no perfect school district leader and there is no perfect way to personalize. You know, I'm a little disappointed that Nikki did not share her trademark little explanation about moving away from cookie cutter curriculum and approaches. It's something she talks about all the time. And what we want people to understand about the journey is, it's your journey everybody, but don't make that journey alone.

Nicki Slaugh (:

If you provide lots of opportunities where your teachers collaborate with the leader as well as with each other, then they're gonna feel comfortable to ask questions. They're gonna feel comfortable with FELL because they're working as a team, right? So setting the stage that way. Same as in the classroom. If the teacher's available to work one -on -one and in small group, will those students feel comfortable asking questions? Will they realize it's okay to fail because the teacher's gonna be there to provide them feedback to help them grow and improve, right? So it's just shifting the environment.

and making sure everyone feels safe and loved and heard and that it's okay to fail.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

book is called personalized meeting the needs of all learners. I love the story of Nikki, you brought Eric in to help you out with your school district. And then suddenly this relationship of authorship's form, I got to ask you two questions here. And Eric, you're next. What did you learn about Eric, throughout the journey of writing this book with him that you might not have known when you were just working together as a coach in a school district?

Eric Sheninger (:

Okay, I'll keep it up.

Nicki Slaugh (:

Thank you.

Eric's a fabulous mentor, first off, I have to say that. He has really, really been a mentor to me in all of these, in every experience, from being a leader as well as a writer. So Eric has really been working with me on, you know.

I'm a rambler, as you can say, so I have a lot to say and I would just write and write and ramble. So he really helped me with the editing and the revising and getting to the point and meeting and writing a piece of like creating work that's for an audience for everyone, not just a targeted audience, like for all teachers and for all leaders. So he's been a great example.

in teaching me how to do that. But really what I've learned from him is he's very organized and structured and he just loves everything a certain way. So I don't know, I learn from him every day. I can't just say one thing.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

My follow up question is what have you learned about yourself through this book writing process?

Nicki Slaugh (:

These are tough questions. Let's see. It really was hard. It was harder than receiving my master's degree, I can say that, because I have a lot of energy and a lot of voice. So I had to really write it and then rewrite it in a different way. I don't know. I learned that I have

passion and I really want to make an impact in a larger community, right? And I learned that it's very important through writing you can do that. He's also helped me to where I finally started a blog and I'm gonna start blogging. So I think what I've learned is he's told me not to just be like this little hidden gem in West Haven, Utah, just to get my voice heard, to make a bigger impact with a larger community because he's helped provide confidence in me that what I'm doing is right and that I should share it with everyone to help everyone, you know.

take the risk and do it.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

love that answer. Eric, I'll ask you a similar question that I have one follow -up for you here. What have you learned about Nikki now that you guys are colleagues not just coach in school district?

Eric Sheninger (:

You know, I've learned that she truly is open to feedback. You know, she didn't truly want me initially in her school. And to be willing to let down the guard and be open to feedback, and it was not always smooth sailing, Jeff. You know, what you're seeing between us now,

You know, sometimes feedback is more on the critical end. And, you know, but one thing I know, whether it was through coaching, she got a lot of feedback from me, maybe a lot of earfuls from me during the writing process, but even now, you know, when we're done events like this, I get on Voxer and I give her feedback. And I know she won't take it personally.

Nicki Slaugh (:

The writing made it.

Eric Sheninger (:

So now I'm going to ask you, you want to know what I learned from this is how patient I am. I learned how patient I am. I'm joking. I'm joking. But you know, we talk about, you know, just all those things that, you know, I think what I've really learned through this process and one of the reasons that I feel that, you know, being that I've done this for a while, you know, I need to pay it forward. I need to pass the baton.

Nicki Slaugh (:

my.

Eric Sheninger (:

I know that I am not the expert. I know there are areas that, and Nikki's facilitating work in numerous districts on my behalf. She is doing things that, could I do it? Yes. Am I the most equipped? No. Being able to be that way, and I do not like to give up control. So patience was more of a joke, sort of, but she's helped me give up control.

which has made me more laser focused at building my consultancy.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

The book is called Personalize, Meeting the Needs of All Learners, available from Connect Ed Publishing. Eric, where can we go to learn more about the great things that you're going to be doing this year?

Eric Sheninger (:

my goodness. Where can you not find them? I'm on every social media tool. You can go to Eric Schenninger .com. we're always sharing updates on the book, but Eric Schenninger .com is the one most people are not interested. But if you want a one -stop shop of Eric, Eric Schenninger .com.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

Nikki, I'm going to give you the last words. You can plug your website. You can plug your social media, but look right at the camera and talk to the educational leaders of today. What do you want to tell them?

Nicki Slaugh (:

Thank you for choosing to be educators and I just really want you to fall in love with your job and I want to help prevent teacher burnout. So hopefully you love our book and it provides you with some quick and easy strategies that you can jump in this new school year and feel happy and empowered to make a difference with your kiddos.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

your website.

Nicki Slaugh (:

Nickyslaw .com.

Jeffrey Bradbury (:

She is Nikki Slaw. He is Eric Scheniger and I want to say thank you both for coming on the show. Please come back on later on this year. I would love to continue this conversation and if you're an educational leader at there would love to invite you on maybe we can have a large group conversation all about how you guys can tell you tell your why to your staff and to your students and that wraps up this episode of digital learning today. I want to say thank you guys so much for checking this out. Of course you can find out all of our other shows over on teachercast .net slash podcast and check out this on iTunes.

Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere that you guys get your podcasts. And so on behalf of Nikki and Eric and everybody here in TeacherCast Educational Network, my name is Jeff Bradbury, reminding you guys to keep up the great work in your classrooms and continue sharing your passions with your students.

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