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In this episode...

Getting Productive for the Right Reasons with Mark Struczewski

https://faithfulontheclock.com/getting-productive-for-the-right-reasons-with-mark-struczewski

We all want to be productive. But are we being productive for the good things God calls us to? Mark Struczewski (Mr. Productivity) helps us figure it out in Episode 142 of Faithful on the Clock.

Timestamps:

[00:04] - Intro

[00:37] - Secondary intro and Mark’s background

[03:15] - Getting happiness from productivity

[05:24] - Quitting excuses and making productivity choices

[11:31] - How to practice patience with ourselves in a way that honors God while being productive

[15:23] - Addressing distractions and differentiating them from God’s movement on us

[20:52] - Productivity is not easy, but fun breaks are fine

[27:34] - Not sharing a bad mood when trying to be productive

[25:45] - The Scripture story Mark offers as a final takeaway

[31:18] - Prayer; Mark’s closing freebie offer

[32:54] - Outro/What’s coming up next

Key takeaways:

• Productivity can be a joyful thing!
• We might not always be in a situation where we love what we’re doing. But we can make intentional choices to get there and be productive in the way we want. 
• There’s often more than one path that’s viable to get to what we love, so we shouldn’t be afraid to look at multiple “how”s to do something. But each path we explore deserves due diligence before we move on.
• Most of us need to develop our patience muscle when it comes to productivity. Doing so can help us appreciate the hard work involved in our productivity.
• Making a list of the distractions we encounter for a brief period of time can help us grasp how much other elements pull our attention away. But we can mitigate most distractions quickly and be intentional about our scheduling.
• When God calls us to do something in the day, that’s a good distraction!
• Productivity is not necessarily easy, but we can ask ourselves how God is shaping us through the difficulties in the work.
• It’s OK to give yourself grace and take breaks as you work — that’s important for keeping productivity joyful.
• We need to be careful not to spread a poor mood as we work. But sharing our trials in the right way can help others be empathetic and learn from what we’re going through.
• God will mold us into the person He wants us to be as we work.

• Home - Mister Productivity

CTAs:

• Visit misterproductivity.com to take the productivity scorecard quiz and assess your productivity.
• Challenge yourself to be more selective about the work you opt to do, clarifying whether it connects to your calling and purpose. Set boundaries where you can to prioritize the work that aligns with what God wants you to do.
• Try adjusting your technology settings or environment to reduce the number of distractions that creep into your work.

What’s coming up next:

Episode 143 of Faithful on the Clock welcomes publisher and narrator Dan Parr for a discussion of what it takes to persist in working for God for the long haul.

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Thibodeaux

Hello, everybody, I’m your host, Wanda Thibodeaux, and you’re listening to Faithful on the Clock, the Christian podcast where every egg fries to get your faith and work aligned. Today, we’re gonna focus on productivity, but buckle up, because we are not gonna have the usual discussion about how to do more and save time. I’m welcoming special guest Mark Struczewski to help us understand what a godly approach to being productive looks like. Here we go!

Thibodeaux

Struczewski

I feel like I should have, like, one of those fancy old pipes sitting with a toga on and we're going to dispel wisdom on philosophy. But thank you so much for having me on the show today.

Thibodeaux

Oh, yeah. Of course. It's my pleasure to have you. So, before we go any further and really dig into the productivity stuff, I just — for my listeners sake, would you please kind of introduce yourself and your background and just kind of let us know who you are for those who — those of us — those people out there who have not heard of you aren't familiar with you?

Struczewski

Thibodeaux

Very, very good. So, you say you love what you do. So, my experience with productivity, and we had kind of talked about this in our preinterview, is that most people, when they hear the word productivity, there's something in them that just kind of recoils. Like, we think — we have this negative connotation of the word productivity. We think we need to do more, and it becomes kind of this heavy word. And we had kind of talked about how this can be a joyful thing, and that you can really get a lot out of being productive in a really good way, that it's not draining for you. So, I'm wondering if you can kind of speak to that a little bit.

Struczewski

I think one of the biggest hacks to being productive is being happy. And I could tell you I'm a happy guy. I identify as Tigger from Winnie the Pooh, for those of you who are of my age group of 60 or around there. And I think that people who work constantly, and they are — I — I see these people working constantly, and they're not happy. Because you ask them, “Are you happy?” “No, I got a lot to do, and I got to go from here to there.” I — I think joy and happiness is a key component of being productive. And when I say that, people — people think productivity is about email and the to-do lists and what projects do I have to do, do I have a wall calendar. That's all great, but if you're not doing what you love to do, what you feel called to do, it's really difficult to be productive. And so, I think — I love the topic of your podcast, we need to talk about the philosophical angle of productivity, because productivity is more than just apps on your phone. It's like, mindset. Are you doing what you love to do? And I believe — I love Kathy Lee — how Kathy — Kathy Lee Gifford puts it: “If you have a pulse, you have a purpose.”

Thibodeaux

Yes.

Struczewski

Now, you may not know what your purpose is. But I promise you, you are here for a reason. And I just encourage people to find what you love to do and do that.

Thibodeaux

So, I know that there's going to be a lot of people out there — you know it — that, they hear this and they're going to say, “Okay, well, I know what I love to do. But I can't be productive in that because I can't find a job in that,” or “I just — I'm struggling to get into the line of work that does make me happy.” So, what would you say to those people in terms of, how do you approach productivity to be happy in those kinds of situations? They know they're not in the right job, but they are kind of stuck. They have to be there, at least for now. What would you say to that?

Struczewski

Stop making excuses. Let's say you wanna do something that you don't have the skills for while you can stay at your current job while you learn that skill. I mean, it really is that simple. But don't make excuses. I'm too old, I'm too young, I'm uneducated, I don't have the money. There — if there's — if you really want to do something, if you feel truly called for something, you will find a way. It — you may have to sacrifice along the way. You may have to put off doing one thing so you can go all in on this other thing. But don't make excuses, because I can tell you, Wanda, I’ve studied many successful people in the world over the years. I love reading books. I love reading origin stories. I can't think of a single person that got to where they are today by making excuses. So, I think we have to start there. That needs to be our foundation, and start — instead of starting with, “Oh man, I wish I could do this, but, you know, I don't have the skills,” or “I get a lot of perks at this job,” or “I've got seniority.” “I make a lot of money, but I'm not happy.” Well, start with the fact that you probably don't have a gun to your head. You're probably not in a prison. And, yeah, you may not have — be able to do it today. But maybe you can do it tomorrow. Maybe you could do it next year. Maybe you could do it in five years. But I think today you need to realize I am not — you need to realize excuses are horrible. And I commit to no longer making excuses. I am going to — instead of asking — this is a very important question. Instead of asking, “What can I do?”, ask, “How could I do it?” It — it retrains your brain to go, “Hmm, is there someone out there that is doing or has done what I want to do?” The odds are probably good that the answer is yes. Great. So, now you have a role model. Go get their book. Go follow them on social media. Go listen to their podcast. But don't start with making excuses. Go with a blank slate and go, “I want to go from A to B. How do I get there?” And then learn. And you don't have to spend money today. A lot of times you can just find the content on social media. But the thing is, it's not just consuming the content. It's actually taking action.

Thibodeaux

Sure. Well, as I'm hearing you talk about this, one thing that I — that strikes me is that, when you talk about saying how, I love that, because if you really dig into it, I think what you'll find is that there's more than one how. Like, it allows you to look at all of the paths that are possible and then really be discerning about which one makes the most sense for your situation. Because maybe there is one that would be ideal. But maybe you would struggle to do that one for a particular reason, but it's still doable. And if you're not asking that kind of questions and looking at all the paths, you're not going to see it as being as doable as it really is. So, I think — I love that, you point that out and switch that focus from what to how. That's really good.

Struczewski

Thibodeaux

Yeah. And I like that too, because the way I — that I think about it is, God is lovingly persistent. He does the same thing. He lets things stew. He doesn't just give up, right? He is patient, because He knows where the endpoint is, and He's willing to take the time to really have it work, to be — to get there. And I think we kind of owe it to Him to do the same thing and say, you know, let's — let's investigate this. Maybe — I'm not real sure if this is the way God wants me to do it, but I'm going to, like you said, do that due diligence and at least test it. And if it doesn't work, then yes, I can pivot. But I'm — I'm not gonna give up right away just because that's the way of the world. You know, we click every three seconds. Oh, that must not work. Right? So, that — that's a good point that I want to point out. Like, we have this world that is very consumed by very quick reaction times.

Thibodeaux

So, you know, with that being said, you know, when we're talking about being patient and giving time to things, what would you say to that? You know, how — how can we really practice that in a way that honors God?

Struczewski

Boy, that's a good question. I have always struggled with patience. It — it's one of my — it's one of my quirks. It's my kryptonite. I want everything done now. I live in — we live in a microwave society. And we haven't quite gotten to the Jetsons. Now, some of your listeners are going to go, “Who?” Go Google it. Okay, the Jetsons were, you zap the food and it's done. Patience is such a powerful concept, because you may have to go through a trial, whether it's building your business or growing your family or getting a promotion at work or whatever. And had you gotten your results immediately, you probably wouldn't appreciate it as much. Prime example, let's say you save up for something. If you go buy it on credit, you know, you don't really appreciate it. But if you saved and sacrificed for 1, 2, 3, years and go out and buy it, now it means more to you, because now you put more sacrifice and effort into that. So, one of the things I've been trying to work on is my patience. I think we all need to create a patience muscle. We need to understand that the world does not revolve around us. And this is really difficult for a lot of people. We are not the center of the universe. If you're alone in the room, okay, you're your world. But when you're outside with other people, now you have to integrate them. And if you're a believer, well, then you definitely the world doesn't surround you. And I just think people need to take a step back. We tend to zoom in in our society today. We zoom in when we should be zooming out, because when you zoom in, you see less and less of the picture. But if you zoom out now, you can go, “Oh! Oh, okay. Now I see how all this fits together.”

Thibodeaux

Yeah. Well, from my personal experience, when you do — I'm a big picture thinker myself. And so, I find that when I zoom out like that, it's so much easier to be discerning, because you can see more pieces. And it's also harder to be distracted, because you can see the big picture. So, when we talk about being patient, if you can't see all the puzzle pieces, you know, how can you figure out which one to pick? But while we are —

Struczewski

That’s a good example.

Thibodeaux

Yeah.

Struczewski

That — that's a good example, because if you are trying to put a puzzle together, and you get the box and you hold it right in front of your face, so you only see, like, about an inch, well, you're not gonna know what — how the puzzle looks. What do you do? You — you push the puzzle box out, and you go, “Oh! Cloud’s over here. The sky over here. The tree over here.” So, I think — and I get guilty of this too — we tend to zoom in, because that tends to be our default. We need to zoom out instead so we can see more of the situation. It's like, God's got the ultimate zoom out.

Thibodeaux

Yes.

Struczewski

Because we are so in the forest we can't see the trees. But when we go through a trial, then you're like, “Oh, now I understand why I zigzagged here to get me where I am now. But if I would have gone straight, it would have been a different result.” So, I — I think if the listener’s missing everything what I'm saying, here's the — here's the one liner. Spend more of your time zooming out instead of zooming in, and your life perspective will probably change significantly.

Thibodeaux

I would agree for sure. While we are on the topic of zooming in versus — or zooming out, rather, we are talking about this concept of distraction, but you have a distraction detox framework, and we had been talking about the phones and how those are distracting, right? So, talk to me about that for a little bit. How can we handle that? Because that — I know that is one of the biggest distractions that we have. But I mean, we're getting, you know, pings all the time, whether it's from our computer or what.

Struczewski

Ah, distractions, distractions. I have started promoting this new exercise I want your listeners to do. It will terrify them, but the point is — is to get you to see how bad it is so you can make changes.

Thibodeaux

Okay.

Struczewski

The question I hear a lot is, “Is it bad enough yet?” You won't make a change until it's bad enough. So, here's I want you to do. Just get a piece of paper. Don't — don't get a special notebook. Back of an envelope, doesn't matter. And write down every time you're distracted. Every time you're distracted. The neighbor's dog's barking, the FedEx truck goes by, helicopter over your head, a plane go over your head. Write down every time you're distracted. First of all, you probably can't make it an hour, maybe 5, 10 minutes and you're like, “Oh my goodness, I can't believe how distracted I am.” Okay, great. Now you feel like rubbish, as my friends over in England say. Now you can say, “Okay, what do I do now? Which of these are within my control and which of these are not within my control?” For example, right before we started recording this episode, my neighbor came home with their kids. And I know the first thing they do, they come in the house to let the dog out. Well, what did I do? I didn't get upset, I texted my neighbor and say, “Hey, I'm about ready to do a podcast interview.” I didn't tell him, “Bring your dog in.” I just let him know. And what they did, they brought the dog in. So, most of the problems that you have control over are problems that you can control quickly. But if you can't control it, let's say every time in the afternoon your neighbor comes home with their kids and let dog out, lot of dogs barking. They're barking. The other dogs are barking. All the dogs neighborhoods are barking. Well, maybe you don't do podcast interviews then, or maybe you don't do stuff that takes full focus. So, you can't control all the dogs barking, but you can say, “You know what, I'm not gonna maybe read or study or do something important during that time frame.” So, you take and control the situation. A lot of distractions are — some are major, some are minor. But if you look at them individually and go, “Can I do anything about this?” No, you can't do anything about the FedEx driver coming down your street. But if your city is going to be doing construction on your street for a week, that's probably not a good time for you to do podcast interviews. So, there's ways around most distractions. You mentioned the phone. One of the things I don't have is, I don't have vibration mode turned on my phone. So, if I mute my phone and I get a phone call, I don't know it because I don't want the vibration on my phone or on my desk. So, every distraction, if you think through it, there's a way you can mitigate it, or at least lower the effect it has on your ability to focus.

Thibodeaux

Sure. Well, that talks to distractions that maybe we don't want, right, a lot. But I think the other side of that coin is kind of training ourself to respond to the good kind of distractions. And what I mean by that is sometimes maybe you'll get an inkling, “Hey, God wants me to go do X or Y,” right? And we get so tied up with the other quote, productive things that we are doing that we don't want to respond to that. And so we need to train ourselves to say this is the right kind of distraction. God is pulling me out for a reason, so I'm going to listen to that distraction, right? And make a differentiation between the two. Because it's easy to say, Oh, well, I just, you know, I went off in the weeds. But no, that was a that, if you want to call it a distraction, okay, but it was God telling you, go do something. And I think we need to learn to be responsive to that and be discerning around what kind of distraction is it and what purpose does it serve.

Struczewski

There are people who will put 10 things on their to-do list. Nine of them will take them five minutes. They don't do the big thing, and then they get the end of the day and like, “Wow, I did nine out of 10.” No, you did not have a productive day because that one thing you were supposed to do, you didn't do. But you did nine things that took you five minutes, then you scrolled on Instagram or Tiktok for four hours. So, I think we are fooling ourselves. And let's face it, we know what we should be doing. We know. You — whether you call it the still small voice or the Spirit, whatever, you know what you should be doing. If you're supposed to be making phone calls, but you're scrolling on Instagram for your research, you're fooling yourself. You're telling yourself stories. And we've all done it because our default is to scroll on social media. But we don't say we're scrolling. We say we're doing research. No, you're not. You're watching dog videos. You're watching cute baby pictures. So, you know, let's call it what it is.

Thibodeaux

Yeah.

Struczewski

But everybody knows in their heart what they should be doing. But what happens is, a lot of times the stuff that we're doing that we need to do is — it's — it's tough, it — it takes sacrifice. So, we're like, “You know what? I'll do it tomorrow.” And then tomorrow. And then tomorrow. Even though what you don't realize because you haven't done it, had you done that one thing, your life may have taken a completely different trajectory. But as human beings, we tend to be stubborn, and we default to easy. And so we're like, “Well, I'll just keep on kicking the can down the road.” And that doesn't end well, because I can imagine God going, “Oh, my goodness.” Or would He say, “Oh, my Me.” I don't know. Bad joke. But “I've been telling Mark. I've been telling Wanda, this is what I want them to do.” Oh, Monday. Now it's Tuesday, now it's Wednesday, now it's Thursday. And He keeps putting it back into our plate, says, “Look at — this is what I want you to do.” But it's not easy. “Oh, come on, I don't want to do that. I want to do the easy things.” But life is not about easy. Okay? Nothing — if you've read the Bible, nothing in the Bible is easy. Okay? It —

Thibodeaux

Sure.

Struczewski

It’s — there's a reason why we went through all these trials and the Israelites, what have you. It's not supposed to be easy, because — I look at it, one of my favorite stories in the Bible is the potter and the clay. And I know for me, God is, you know, being the potter, and like, smush. That’s a trial. He starts building me up again. Smush. Because he keeps molding us and molding us and molding us, and maybe when we get about 95 years old, He goes, “Oh, he finally got it.”

Thibodeaux

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know when — when you're talking about, like, being — being squished and getting — getting the right distraction, right, I think some of our issue, is just kind of what you're saying. Like, we shy away from the uncomfortableness of what productivity sometimes has to be. Like, we just don't like that. And I think, quite frankly, I think that's a lot of where we get this idea of, oh well, check some of the easy things off. It'll give you a psychological win, right? But we're kind of talking about doing it the exact opposite way, because we know what the big thing is worth. We're not getting little tiny wins. We're going after the big fish. Does that make sense?

Struczewski

It does. And I'm a big European football fan. We call it soccer in the American United States. And when people find out that I watch football, like, if they do their tournaments, they're on at two o'clock in the afternoon, which is eight o'clock over in England, and they're like, “Wait a minute. I thought you were, Mr. Productivity. What are you doing watching a football match for two hours in the middle of the afternoon?” I said, “Well, first of all, watching football makes me happy. That's number one, okay? Number two, I have worked hard before and I work hard after the match. It's not like that's the only thing I'm doing during the day.”

Thibodeaux

Right.

Struczewski

So, I want people to understand that. It's not the only thing I'm doing during the day. So, I believe that you should give yourself what I call happiness breaks or fun breaks. And for me, it's watching football. Now, I don't watch four games. I watch one match when my team is playing. That's it. So, if you like spending time on Tiktok or Instagram or Facebook, if that's going to bring you joy, and you can limit it, not six hours, but you can limit it, it will boost your productivity. But I think — this is why I like talking about happiness and productivity so much, because so many people are focused on, “I've got to do the thing,” but they're neglecting if you give yourself time to be joyful, to be happy, maybe you go out to stretch your legs, and you see a neighbor walk by you haven't talked to in a couple weeks, and you talk to him for 20 minutes, and it made you feel good, well, now you're going to be feeling better to go back in the house and do more work,

Thibodeaux

Right. Right. Well, like I said, too, I mean, I think we do have this idea that productivity always has to be, like, this negative thing. And the idea that it can actually be a path to joy, I think is gonna be really foreign for some people, because they've never — they've never experienced it that way. But when you look at it as saying, this is the high value item, like, if you would talk marketing, right, we want high value items. We go after those all the time, right? And we market those strategically so that we bring more income to our business. So, when you are going after the hard thing, the thing that has more value, ultimately that payoff, that ROI, is more joy, because you get more out of the experience of working hard for it and seeing the outcome of that hard work. If you're just doing little stuff all the time, it's just like, eh. It's not as big of a spark, right? So, I think — I think we need big, big flames.

Struczewski

Yeah, I also tell people to extend themselves grace. So, if you need to sit down and do something, write your book, write your thesis, write a podcast, whatever, and for whatever reason, you're not feeling it, maybe you had a bad morning, you don't feel good, you didn't sleep well the night before, then say, “You know what? The house is not on fire. I'm just gonna take the couple hours off and just call it a day.” But people, they think that's being unproductive when it — it's the exact opposite. Because had you done that project, you probably would have done a porrible job. Porrible? That's a new word. Porrible. A poor or a horrible job. I think I just invented a new word. Porrible.

Thibodeaux

That's okay.

Struczewski

Because you were forcing it. You were pushing the rope. But had you said, “You know what? I'll do it tomorrow. I'm — I’m not feeling it today.” Extend yourself grace. I think we get too hard on ourselves. “Well, it's got to be done today.” Is the due date today? If it is, that's a totally different problem, because you're a procrastinator. You waited to the last minute. But if you have time, I think if you waited and you feel better tomorrow, you slept better, whatever, now you're going to do more work, better work that's going to edify you. And so, I think people need to practice extending themselves grace. We can — it's really easy to extend grace to other people, but we tend to be really hard in ourselves.

Thibodeaux

Yeah, for sure, I know — I mean, that is one of my biggest hangups too, because I — I could work all day, right? But we had talked a little bit about, in the preinterview, about not sharing a bad mood when you are trying to be productive. You know what I mean? So, I was wondering if you can just kind of very quickly talk about that.

Struczewski

Well, I can see the pros and the cons of it. So, we just talked yesterday, okay? And I think that if you are having a bad day, I think it's okay for you to share, not as a contagion, but maybe you share it and says, “Look at — I had a bad day. Here are the lessons I learned.” Because someone else there, someone else out there seeing that go, “Oh! So, I can extend myself grace when I have a bad day, too.” And so, I — see, this is what I was telling you yesterday. I change my mind all the time when it comes to this stuff, because maybe you sharing your trial is going to help somebody else out. Now, I'm not saying, Be an Eeyore and spread your negativity throughout the whole — your whole world, but maybe you say, “You know what? I'm not having a good day today, and here's why, and this is what I did.” Maybe if you just help one person, then they go, “Huh That makes sense.” That make sense to you?

Thibodeaux

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think the — the concept that I keep coming back to as you're talking is that we have to be really self aware of how we are responding in the moment to what we are doing. If it's making us feel really, really bad, we've gotta acknowledge that and say, “You know what? I need to step away.” Or. “You know what? I'm — this is making me really angry or upset or whatever it is. So, I'm not going to schedule something right now, because I know that in my next meeting, in the next 10 minutes, I'm just going to be a bear.” Right? And making those conscious choices from that self awareness, I think is really important.

Struczewski

One hundred percent.

Thibodeaux

Yeah. Well, as we're kind of wrapping up here, I just want to ask you if there is any, you know, kind of story from Scripture, or maybe a story from your life that has kind of shaped you and that you want to share as a final takeaway for our listeners.

Struczewski

Well, I'll just go back to the potter and the clay. You are constantly being molded and shaped by your — your heavenly Father, and sometimes, especially when He smooshes the clay, it's a lot more painful. But there's a reason why. There's a lesson we have to learn. And a lot of people, because we're human, we're all fallen creatures, and we tend to take it personal. God loves us tremendously, and He's trying to mold us into the person He wants us to be. We're all going to be unique. And so, I just think, when trials come into your life, instead of focusing on the negative, ask yourself, “What lesson can I learn from this trial?” Instead of cursing God and cursing the world, just say, “What does God try to teach me here?” Because I promise you, he's trying to teach you something, something

Thibodeaux

Something. I — I have — you know, that is one of the things that I am personally working on, too, because it's so easy to, you know, to get frustrated. Sometimes, I wanna throw things at my computer screen, and I'm really trying not to do that anymore, you know. And because it affects other people around me, like my family. They have not had an easy time with me. I will be — you know, I'll admit that. So, I like that that is, that is your final takeaway.

Thibodeaux

But as we close, do you mind if I pray for you for a little bit?

Struczewski

Nope, go right ahead.

Thibodeaux

Perfect. God, I pray for Mark and his podcast and his work, because as we focus on productivity, as we said at the start — start of the show, it's not just about being productive. It's about focusing on You and asking if the productivity is actually something You want us to do. Does it serve You? And so, I ask that You guide Mark with his show and his — all of his other work, his speaking or whatever he gets into, so that that message comes across. In Jesus name, I pray. Amen.

Struczewski

Amen. And one final thing

Thibodeaux

Sure.

Struczewski

I have something for your listeners. If they go to my website, misterproductivity.com M, I, S, T, E, R, misterproductivity.com, they can take a free productivity scorecard. And most people that take the scorecard — it's only 10 questions, takes you two or three minutes — are shocked at their issues with productivity. It's 100% free.

Thibodeaux

Awesome.

Struczewski

So, I just want people to get a glimpse in — you gotta be honest. 10 questions. But you gotta be honest if you want the truth. And then I'll send you a follow up email with some suggestions. So, it's free. It's at misterproductivity com.

Thibodeaux

Okay, well, thank you for that, Mark. I will make sure that the links to everything are in the show notes. And this has been great. I really enjoyed the show. Thank you.

Struczewski

Thank you.

Thibodeaux

Listeners, with the whole world screaming at us to do more, I’m so grateful to Mark for helping us see that productivity doesn’t have to be this weight on our shoulders, but can be a way to be joyful. As Solomon reminds us in Ecclesiastes 3:12-13, that ability to be happy and satisfied in our toil is a gift from God, and the more resources we have to learn to work that way, the better. So, of course, I’ll do another shameless plug here — go out to Amazon or your favorite place to buy books and get yourself a copy of Grace in the Grind: 52 Devotions for Thriving in the Workplace. It’ll help you really reflect and bring God into what you’re doing. Next week, we’re chatting with Dan Parr, publisher and narrator of the Easy to Understand Bible, for a discussion about what it takes to persist in working for God for the long haul. Take care, everybody, and be blessed.