Focusing on managing your time can lead to overwhelm and a sense that there’s just not enough. But with a few simple exercises, we can think about how we manage our energy, not our time.

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As busy professionals working in high stress jobs, we're often pushed to

think about how we manage our time.

But how often is how we spend our time dictated to by our energy

rather than our to-do list?

In this episode, I'm speaking with leadership and team

development expert, Chris Cooper.

Through his radio show and podcast, Chris has built an international

community of contributors focused on positive change.

Now, if you've read the episode title and thought energy, that all

sounds a little bit woo woo, then don't worry, we get really practical

about ways that you can balance the physical, mental, emotional,

and spiritual aspects of your life.

Now, Chris is married to a GP, so he knows what you're up against at work.

And we also talk about how we can reframe even the darkest

challenges and find gratitude.

And we've got some great self-reflection questions, which are perfect for the

start of the year in our CPD work, but which goes with this episode.

So do join FrogXtra via the link in the show notes to support the show and

get copies of all the CPD workbooks.

If you're in a high stress, high stakes, still blank medicine, and you're feeling

stressed or overwhelmed, burning out or getting out are not your only options.

I'm Dr.

Rachel Morris, and welcome to You Are Not a Frog

My name's Chris Cooper, and, uh, in my professional work I develop leaders

and teams and business cultures.

Uh, sometimes that's in the healthcare sector.

I'm married to a GP so that I also have that, uh, ongoing experience there.

I also, um, have hosted the radio show called The Business Elevation

Show on Voice America for 13 years, who've just become a, a teenager.

And out of that, I've created an international community of exceptionally

wise and, uh, heartfelt and kind, uh, contributors who care about

contributing to a better world.

It's wonderful to have you here, Chris.

Thank you so much for being here.

And we originally met, I think, in a, a book launch at our friend and colleague,

uh, Jane Gunn, who's a big friend to the podcast as well, didn't we?

We did Indeed.

Yes.

She's absolutely amazing and I'm always on the lookout for, for guests who've

got, you know, really interesting perspective on life, and also who can

link stuff that they learn outside of the healthcare setting that we can

sort of bring, bring into healthcare.

Because there are some sort of business concepts and stuff that, that have

leaked through and we've got in, but there's lots of stuff out there that

I've never heard of and, um, that don't seem to have penetrated the,

the outer shells of the NHS yet.

And, and you've got, and, and what you were talking to me about energy

and people and all that sort of stuff really, really rang a bell.

So I wanted to get you onto data, pick your brains about all sorts of things.

But the one thing that you said that really struck me, which a, a colleague

of mine said to me a few years ago was, Rachel, you have got to manage your

energy rather than managing your time.

And you said that to me when we met as well, and I was like, this is

something I want to know more about.

So we are gonna explore that today.

But, you know, why did you, why did you get into all this in the first place?

How did you get to a point where you were like, okay, energy, that that is

the really, really important thing.

I mean, I, I come from the north of England from a steel town, and

my expectation was that I would go on and work in the steelworks

like my dad and my grandfather.

And I also remember going to, to the steelworks with my dad.

When I was about 13, lots of lots of fathers and typically

sons, um, on an open evening.

And we walked around the steelworks and it was dark and dirty and noisy.

And I'd heard all of these stories about, uh, you know, challenge with

unions and there had been strikes and various things like that.

And afterwards he went into this room and a very tall man came in and he

said to me, son, when you are older, are you gonna come and join us?

I said, you must be joking.

And my dad, my dad was absolutely furious.

He yelled at me all the way home and said, you know how one day you might

wanna work there and, uh, anyway, he got home to my mom and he was telling

her, and uh, and I thought about it and I said, but Dad, you are not happy

there why would I want to work there?

And I realized there was something in me that had to get me out of Scunthorpe.

And I became the first person to do a degree.

And I, and, and I went on and worked for big companies like

Mars and United Biscuits.

I ended up running divisions and of, of people and teams, international ones.

Um, I, my final corporate job was looking after logistics for five and

a half thousand pubs and restaurants.

I then set up a small business, which did did well.

But 18 years ago I hit a personal point, a bit of a low point with it all.

It didn't quite fit in with my, with my values.

Uh, and I decided that the thing I was most passionate about was people.

So for 18 years I've been working with leaders and teams, uh, and, and

different cultures helping to elevate and transform their performance.

I've had this radio show and I have now a community that I lead, and

what I've realized a common theme through all of that, you know, my

dad wasn't happy in his, in his work.

He spent 42 years there.

I didn't want anybody to not feel happy in their work.

Uh, and seeing that coming from an atmosphere, an atmosphere, which

is a bit bleak at times, uh, and going in in companies and noticing

the companies that were, and organizations and the healthcare

organizations that were working really well, there was a buoyancy,

there was an energy about them.

Uh, and and I would often go into companies and they'd be very flat.

And then few, maybe sometimes a few years bef of working with them,

and people are, have got a really high productive buzz about the

place and everything is improved.

Satisfaction, wellbeing, happiness, and results.

So I've come to this conclusion now, uh, now being in my fifties.

I look back and I think actually.

It can almost sound a little bit woo woo, but it's not, it's not meant to be.

The thing that was really important, the common ingredients is energy and

the flow of that energy, people being in the right roles, being happy in

them, and leaders coming up, uh, and people who are dealing with, with,

with customers or patience, they come into that space feeling energized.

Uh, but you have to create a system that enables that and it,

but it starts ultimately with you.

How do you define energy?

It's, it's a really, it's an, an interesting one.

If you, if you Google it, it often says it's that which enables us to do work.

Now, some of your, some of your people who are listening to this

will probably know scientifically precisely what energy is, but

it's a little bit complicated.

It's, uh, you know, when you go into the, into actual energy and how,

you know, we burn foods, it sits, the energy sits in the food, and

we, we, we pick up that energy, uh, into our bodies and then we utilize

it and it goes somewhere else.

But what I think is most helpful to think about is when it comes to our,

our, our mood, uh, and, and us as human beings, what can we do to maximize our

wellbeing such that way we feel full of energy and it's positive and engaging?

And I think it's helpful to look at it and maybe three, four areas, which

is your physical energy and wellbeing, your mental energy and wellbeing, your

emotional energy and wellbeing, and your, and, and, and also there's a

fourth that people gain energy from, which is, is spirituality feeling

that the, the part of something bigger than just themselves, you

know, marveling at the wonder of life.

So I think, um, thinking about those four areas is quite helpful to think

about how can we put ourselves in the best possible space when we go

into, into practice or we go into the a hospital or where's a practice

manager, or we're going in and we're managing people and teams.

How do we utilize those four components and with some strategies

to mean that we're, we're in a really good, productive space?

I don't mean jumping off the ceiling, you know, and, and

swinging from, uh, the lights.

I mean, being in a really productive space that we can be fully there

and fully present for people and feeling good in our own skins despite

all the problems that are going on.

'Cause we're dealing with problems all the time, aren't we?

Yeah.

And I, I think when you're saying that, I'm automatically

going, yeah, absolutely.

Physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, really important.

But there's a part of me that's going yes, but yes, but.

And, uh, I, I ran a, a live cohort of our Beat Stress and Thrive course

this morning, and someone put in the comment, she said, I really love my

work, but there's just too much of it.

And I think when you talk to a lot of healthcare professionals about

energy, the first thing you get back is it would all be fine if.

If my workload was better and if we were funded properly.

And they see those two things as the only blockers to them feeling okay.

Yeah.

Uh, well, I, I've, you know, firstly living with a GP, I do

empathize that it's, it's not easy.

It, it's, it's, it's hard when you have a, a job, you're seeing lots

and lots of patients in the day if you were GP, there's a lot of

expectations on you in the system.

However, what we can do is we can, we can become almost a victim to that.

And, and our own wellbeing is really important.

And some of the strategies that we can take to put ourselves in a

really good space, uh, are quite simple ones and they don't take,

uh, much in the way of extra time.

So I don't think it's necessarily, once, you know, some of the

strategies, uh, is a, is a, is a time, particularly a time issue.

Um, I think one of the, one of the most powerful little, little tools that is,

is really important, probably relate to this point is, is being able to reframe.

And therefore, you know, you might be in a system that's, that has a

lot of pressure, but you, you have to maybe reframe that in a different way.

Um, so you're not part of this feeling helpless, you're

feeling on the front foot.

So you, you know, you know that the system is gonna,

it, it's very, very busy.

Um, but actually, you might choose to reframe that as actually,

but when I'm busy, it's fun.

I'd actually rather be busy than looking at the, the clock,

you know, for the day to go.

I'm actually lucky that unlike, you know, maybe someone you know

has got their own business, I don't actually have to find my own work.

It comes to me.

So that's really interesting.

I had a, I'll give you a little example.

It's not healthcare, but I had a client call me a couple of years ago who I'd

worked with for a period of time and she was feeling very busy, very overloaded.

There was a lot of negative self-talk.

And one day I actually wrote down what she was saying to me.

I asked her how she was and oh, this is the problem and this

is the system's not working.

And, and I said to her, do you know what you, you how you're talking to yourself?

She sometimes I feel stupid and I replayed all this back, and she

said, do I really say all of that?

And I taught her about reframing and she called me a few months later and said,

Chris, I wanted to let you know that I was thinking about you the other day.

I said, okay, why, why was that?

And she said, well, I was thinking about you when my house was burning down.

And she said, I look at my house was burning down.

My, the, uh, my parents' farmhouse was on fire.

The roof of my cottage next to it was on fire.

And I thought, what would Chris Cooper say?

'Cause he, he taught me some strategies.

And she said, I just suddenly thought, she said, I would've

normally gone into absolute depression and, and, and, and frustration.

And she said, what I decided to do is I thought, well, actually, we could

do with the house being repainted, you know, thank, thank goodness the

car's not next to it on my laptop.

So they're, they're, they're safe.

And, and actually the roof was getting a little bit, a little bit

old, and actually I'm safe, you know, so she was all the time reframing,

she said, do you know what I mean?

I'm ringing you from a hotel now.

And she said, I'm okay.

Thank you

That is good.

I'm just thinking whenever I get annoyed with my, um, kids, you know,

they're going out too much or you know, they haven't done the homework 'cause

they've been out and, you know, I'm then just so grateful that they're,

they're well, they're able to go out, you know, all that sort of stuff.

It, it does just shift.

It's, it's something about.

Being grateful for what you have got rather than, you know, ruining,

ruining what you haven't, haven't got.

And there are some really good things about working in healthcare.

You know, you don't have to search for clients like those of us

running our own organizations.

You know, you, you've constantly gotta think about actually have,

have I got enough to pay the bills?

Can I pay my team, all that sort of stuff.

And the other thing is there is quite a lot of purpose

baked into the job as well.

I really remember when I first started working as a junior doctor, talking

to someone quite close to me, and I, I found it really, really hard and I

was, you know, moaning about it a bit.

And they said to me, but Rachel, at least you can go to work knowing

that what you do every day is helping people and making a difference.

I go to work, all I'm judged on is have I made money for the

shareholders for make, make more money.

And there's nothing wrong with that, he said, but you know, I have to

really hunt for my purpose, but with you is like out there, it's sort

of there on a, there on a plate.

So I think there is a lot of stuff, but it, it can be hidden, can't it?

And I think the temptation is to think of energy purely as

in, have I got capacity rather than than have I got energy?

So how, how do you help people around that when they are feeling

so overwhelmed and the workload is so high, how do you help people

find that other types of energy that might not be I've got loads of

capacity and I've got loads of time?

So, I think breathing's really important.

Taking just a couple of minutes to sit there and I, I recommend people,

uh, sit there and just, just take a good breath, gentle, good breathe in.

And uh, what I tend to do is breathe in, got a peace and calm and relaxation.

I hold my breath for a few seconds and I breathe out the stress and the anxiety.

Um, and just two minutes of that helps put us into a really good state.

And actually I do that now with meetings, with, with clients.

We do that for a couple of minutes and we all get really focused in, and

people who've got all sorts of stuff going on and clutter in their minds.

The o the other thing I think can, when we're very busy is we can also

fill some of that time and lose some time because our minds are thinking,

oh, I'm too busy, oh, I'm tired.

I've got this to do.

I've got that to do, I haven't done this for me.

And, and actually what, what happens is we, we, we overly busy, we put even

more because there's that mental energy that's going on, um, how I'm gonna

cope, I've got my notes, you know, all of that sort of stuff that puts extra.

Pressure and stress on you.

So calming that down.

When you calm yourself down to your breathing, it also

puts you into the, now.

People's minds tend to focus on, focus on the, on the past.

I mean, if you focus on the past, you can also obviously focus on the future.

Um, they might also, if they're sitting with someone,

be thinking, do they like me?

Do I like them?

Uh, where I think the most powerful place to be is actually in the now.

And actually in the now, you've only actually got one task to do.

Uh, that is, and that is, you know, be with the per the patient

or the person that you're seeing right at this very moment.

And that's when you have the really special conversations.

That's when you, you really make a difference, 'cause

you're really listening.

I'm sure with your, your work, you must be in situations, Rachel, where

we're actually almost the, the walls of the room close in because you're

so focused on the other person.

And, and magic happens, isn't it?

I, that's the beauty of podcasting actually, 'cause I get to talk to lots

of really interesting people and Yeah.

'cause you are, you are so focused on, on the conversation.

Yeah.

No matter what else is going on in the day.

That's really good.

And I always feel really energized after, after I've, I've, I've, I've

recorded a podcast just 'cause it, it's interesting, it's very now and

in the moment and, and you are right.

It's that pre reliving and reliving stuff that, that's where

the energy steps out of you.

Because you can't do anything about the past, can't change it.

And worrying about the future will is is mainly futile.

So I think a lot of us do find it really difficult to live in the present

and keep yourself in the present.

Do you have any specific tips that you teach people about

literally how to do that?

'Cause my mind wanders off so quickly and so easily.

For me, if it may be hard for some, if you've got kids, I know

what it's like in the morning.

You feel like sometimes you need a medal just for getting into work.

Um, I, I find it very helpful.

Having a dog like that forces me to go out for a walk in the morning.

The other thing I think maybe that you, you just mentioned

it there, about gratitude.

When you just actually just, you take a little moment just to be

actually, you know, I've got a friend who, who's serving, they serve 5,000

meals a day on the board with Ukraine and Russia set up a charity there.

You know, that is not a safe place to be right now.

Um, you know, being in your, your warm office, hopefully, uh, about

to see patients, actually, that's something I can be grateful for.

Um, I can be grateful, you know, for the good things

that are going in in my life.

I can be grateful for, you know, the birds that I see, uh, you know, sitting

in the outside, flying around outside.

I can be grateful the fact that actually, you know, my life is

pretty comfortable compared to many.

And then you need some, you need some time for yourself to decompress.

I think that's so true.

I think we've put a lot of time and thought and energy

into, well, I can be happy.

I will have energy when I'm in the right role, I'm doing the right stuff, I've

got the right partner, I've got the right this, I've got the right that.

But actually thinking there's so much in the now that you can do

like taking a five minute break or even a 10 minute break to have a cup

of tea or just a stare at a tree.

Everyone has got time for that.

If you haven't got time for five minute break, then, then I don't think

there's any, there's any hope for you.

But so many of us take five minutes scrolling through social media

because we just need to distract our brains and get a quick dopamine hit.

So we're doing the, the things that aren't helpful, the things that then

make us compare ourselves to other people and then feel rubbish about

ourselves, and that starts to self-talk.

There's the breathing, there's the pausing, and actually that

realization that I'm okay.

I'm okay now.

Whatever the future holds.

I'm sat here and I'm, I'm warm and I'm well fed and I'm

having a nice conversation here and now is, is totally fine.

I think we, we do underestimate the power of those, of those little things.

we do.

A couple years ago, I had a, a couple of sur surgeries on my

stomach, have a hiatus hernia and, uh, lot of acid reflux.

I've had surgery 15 years ago and it failed, so I went in

for a couple of operations.

They both failed quite badly and actually left me on in a, a worse

situation than I was before.

And I think probably my, one of my proudest, proudest moments of that

whole experience, which required a lot of recovery, was when after the

second scan, after the second surgery, the consultant said to me, which was

completely stunned when he saw the scan, said, you just shouldn't, it shouldn't,

you shouldn't be working like this.

You've got a kink in your esophagus and what, what have you.

And, and, uh, what I was really proud about in that moment

though is afterwards he said, can I have a word with you?

And I said, sure.

And he said, oh, there's one question I want to ask you.

How on earth have you kept so calm?

In my work, you know, wonderful work you are doing, Rachel, with this

podcast and with your community is, I know what you are doing, like I'm

doing, is that people want to be able to grow and be better in their work.

But actually we all also need to be, need to be better at life.

And we all want to learn how to be better at life.

And actually these practices, which can only, sometimes only in small

moments, taking that time to be grateful or, or, or taking some

time to breathe, whatever works for reading something that's inspiring,

um, listening to a podcast on the way to work that, that, um, like, um, You

Are Not a Frog, um, that, that gives you a, gives you a lift, those, those

little things in your life actually help you to live your life better.

Uh, and, and, and that has effect on, you know, whether you're

doing that during the weekend, you're doing it in the week, it

enables everything to, to lift.

And you too, when it comes to those special moments that you have in

the now to be able to, to perform in a, in a natural, engaged way, and

all those little moments add up to; success in those moments add up to the

quality, I think, ultimately of your life and the results that you see.

I totally agree.

And there are so many little things that we can do to make things a lot

better and, and to get more energy.

I do want to ask about the bigger picture stuff though, as well, because

I would be sitting here thinking, yeah, well that's all well and good, but I, if

I was in a job that I absolutely hated, no matter how much gratitude I did, no

matter how much sitting here going, oh, I'm, I'm happy here, or breathing or

whatever, if I'm predominantly doing stuff that I don't enjoy doing that is

gonna massively impact on my energy.

So how do you help people really work in work within their zone

of genius or, or really be happy in, in what they're doing?

I utilize a particular diagnostic tool, um, which is, um, not my

show, it's called Talent Dynamics.

And I've actually, I, I realized I've, I've, I've purchased over a thousand

of these now from the provider.

And, and what I found with this particular tool is it helps you

understand where you're naturally energetically in flow with your work.

You know, there, there are things in our work where it's like

we're in a canoe and we're going downstream, and it's, and it's easy.

Um, but there are times in our work where we're really

paddling upstream and it's hard.

Now, what this enables you to do is in the cycle of, of, of doing work,

uh, and maybe the cycle of running a practice where there's roles that you're

best suited to really, uh, and, and where there are areas that you're gonna

struggle the most and you're gonna need to rely on help from others to do them.

The wonderful news is that there are people who love doing the

things you don't like doing.

You've just gotta, you've just gotta find them.

And it's being able to delegate and work with them to, to do those things

where you're out in your flow so you can be doing work that you love to do.

Now, I personally, I did first did this particular tool with, with a

number of others about 18 years ago when I set up my business, and I

designed my business around my flow.

So I'm, I love being around people.

I love talking to people like you, Rachel, and, uh, and

I'm a, I'm a, a communicator.

Um, I enjoy coaching and facilitating things, but when it comes to

real detail, I'm not your person to build your website or handle

your accounts or no, you know?

No, no way.

And actually, if it comes to training, I, I, I get bought, I couldn't deliver

the same training course over and over again because I don't like the sameness.

I like variety, you know, and I, I like some creative things as well.

I like, um, I like change.

So I understand.

I have a good understanding, I think of where I'm happiest.

And it's led me actually to design my career and do things that I love to do.

The podcast came from that.

The community's come from that.

So I, I suppose there's, the question then is, um, you know, if you are

a GP and very unhappy, it's a bit difficult, isn't it?' Cause you've

chosen that, that profession, but maybe what you can do over time is, uh.

It, it if, if, if you just generally don't like the job, maybe you're

in the wrong profession, perhaps.

Um, but there'll be other things that you're more suited to.

So my, my wife, for example, is a good example.

Uh, she, she was a practice partner for a number of years,

and she started to, she, she kind of hit the wall really with it.

Uh, and over time, now what she has is a, is a portfolio of work,

and some of that really work.

Really, she loves, she trains GPs.

Um, she, she helps, um, GPs become trainers.

Uh, she, um, also does practice appraisals, uh, and she has, um,

she, she also works a day a week in a practice, um, as a salaried GP.

But that blend of work has led to her being really happy in her work.

So I suppose taking some time out to think about what do you want,

what do, does make you happy?

And then over time developing a strategy to gradually, you know,

move yourself into, um, operating in, um, in a space that fulfills you.

I actually think that jobs like gp and in fact most jobs in healthcare, we are

very lucky in that you can pretty much craft a role around what you like doing.

I mean, you're a bit stuck if you absolutely hate seeing patients, right?

So if you, if you hate seeing patients, and it's gonna be quite

hard to craft a job as a, as a GP or you know, in a patient facing role.

But I mean, some GPs don't see any patients anymore because they're

running services on clinical leadership and, and that's totally fine.

But like you said, with your wife, you can go into training, teaching,

leading, develop, developing services.

You can go into research.

There, there's a.

A load, a load of stuff that you can do.

Um, often we just dunno how to do that and, and how to, how to craft career.

We, we are actually developing a, well, we have a, a career

crafting program called Leapfrog, which is coming out very soon.

So, uh, if anyone wants to know about that, we can, um, just, just, just

email us and ask about Leapfrog.

But in, in medicine, we've never really taken the time to look at

what our strengths are because we, it's been such a, like a, a conveyor

belt of, of a career, and you've gotta take these boxes and you

pass and you get to the next bit.

You get into the next bit.

What I think happens in life is we, life is a series of problems.

If you, if you want to look at it, it sounds a bit negative, but

we have a lot of, of problems.

We have to be aware that we're always gonna have them.

Uh, and what we have to do is then adapt them and, and utilize

resources that can help us.

One of those key, the key things to be able to deal with that is

we hit certain problems, which actually we aren't somehow in, in

our makeup, we aren't being enough to be able to deal with them.

And, and therefore the doing that we're doing isn't working

quite out as well as we want to.

And the results we get aren't as good.

So I think we have to take time out to work on our being, uh, uh,

about, you know, how we're coming across, I mentioned their energy,

but also taking the time to ask those deep questions of ourselves about

what, yeah, what are we good at?

What aren't, what aren't we so good at?

Where could we bring in some help to, to help us?

Uh, if it's a, if it's a practice, where is the, the practice not working

so well for the, for the partners that, that maybe change needs to happen.

And, and sometimes, you know, bringing in external people like you

or I to, to help with that can be the catalyst to ask the questions.

So there's the, the self-development aspects of it.

But what if you're working in a practice or a department where your

colleagues are all a nightmare and they're like, complete energy sappers?

What can you do about other people and how can you build energy within your

own department, within your own culture?

I think the first, the first thing is that you have to show

up in a good energetic state.

And not be what, what I've seen, I've, I've already seen this this

week actually with, with clients I've been working with, is there can be

a blame, you know, wanting to point the finger, you know, they're not

doing this, they're not doing that.

The, the first thing is to actually, is to hold a, a mirror and look at

yourself, because actually your behavior will impact if, if the climate in your

practice is not where you want it to be.

It's likely to be a related to the, the thinking and the behavior of the.

Leaders of that practice over a period of time.

So you have to be prepared to look at yourselves, and do some work on

yourselves as a, you know, a leadership team, if we want to call it that way.

But then also, look at the team.

So it might be that the first thing you've done is that you've got the

wrong people in the wrong role.

So that's contributing to it.

What I've found from my experience is the two common mistakes

people make in recruitment.

The first one is they recruit people like themselves.

So they get, they, they, they meet somebody, they, oh, I really like them.

It's 'cause it's actually, they're just like you.

Uh, but you might be putting them into, into a role where they're doing

things that you wouldn't like doing, and they're not gonna like it either.

The second thing is people are, people are smart enough to look at the role

profile and be able to explain why it's them and it, and it may not be.

So recruitment is really, really important.

What you wanna put people in is into roles that they're gonna love doing.

Also, in job, job ads, actually, you know, if the role actually

involves cleaning the toilet, you put that in the job role.

Somebody will actually enjoy having the break and cleaning the toilet,

believe it or not, you know, um, so you need to put in, into the job role.

You know, it, it, it, whats and all, so you attract the people at, at the

front, they're gonna love, you know, doing that particular role for you.

You know, I have, my purpose drives me every day by enabling

others to reach their potential.

You have your purpose too.

You want to, you know, the practice has some purpose.

Remind people why they're there and have a vision of where you

are, where you are moving towards, and a set of values that, that

are guiding principles for them.

Those are really important.

Communication's important.

So if I'm working with a company, we do things, we have, um,

tools to measure engagement.

I also do, you know, cultural surveys with people, and those will

identify some of the drains as well.

So you might have drains like, you know, the, the car parking situation

might be draining everybody.

Uh, the lack of being able to go out and get some food might be

draining people, A lack of training.

Might be you that, that's the drain.

Um, so you wanna understand those things and be prepared to.

Identify them and put them, have a way of doing that in an impartial way

that puts them on the table and then you, then you can work with them.

I think in medicine what happens is we end up doing a role just

'cause we were the last, we were there, someone needed to do it.

Because we've then done it the last five years.

We just carry on doing it.

And having the courage within a team leadership team to go Is that

role actually suiting you right now?

Are you the best person to do that particular role?

Could we shift you to something else and can we get someone else

who might be an awful lot better at doing that into that role?

I think.

We don't shed roles quickly enough.

We, we pick them up very quickly in medicine, but we don't actually

then let someone else do it when we realize they don't actually suit us.

And because I think we feel that we failed, we failed if we're not gonna do

that role anymore, or we don't like it, or we've fallen out of love with it,

which is a, I dunno if that's peculiar to medicine because my other half

has done loads of different roles and it's, and that's just being promoted.

In medicine we're like, oh, I've, I've failed at being clinical

director 'cause I didn't like it and I gave it up after 18 months.

Great.

No, what you've learned is that you don't like being clinical director and

that's not your top of your skillset.

That's not a failure.

It's like learning

It might be with clinical director involved, for example, clinical

director, people want to, you know, wanna get promoted or of, not

everybody, but people who are, are very career driven and they'll get

promoted into the next, the next role.

And it might be that clinical director requires lots of strategy.

And it might be that, um, you've got, you know, 40% of your time

you're working on strategy.

Now, if, if you have, um, when I do my use my diagnostic tool, I have people

who have not percent energy in strategy.

And I had somebody in a medical profession who want really

wanted this, uh, senior role.

It was very visionary, uh, and they were actually gonna

leave if they didn't get it.

But when we did the profiling work, they actually had no energy, I think

it was 4% of their outta a hundred sat in this area of vision and strategy.

Um, the co the organization didn't want them to go, didn't want 'em to leave.

Uh, and what actually happened was they realized in doing this that

they would be making a big mistake.

Uh, and we actually, um, together designed the role that fitted perfectly

around them being in flow and the organization accepted it 'cause it

needed it, and created a new role.

And if you're doing something you're not in your flow doing you, you're gonna

be low energetically, you're not gonna perform well, you're gonna be unhappy.

Not good for you, not good for the organizations.

So often we do things just because of status or we think we

ought to or because we should.

And I'm interested in, in this talent dynamic thing you said, so strategy

is one of the things you measure.

What, what are the other sort of elements that you can have percentages

Yeah, so this particular tool, it's um, it, it works.

All these tools work on the, you know, come from the I Ching and

the work of Carl Jung and the different differentiations of them.

Um, but this particular one, it's, it, um, you know, the north

of the model is about, is about innovation, uh, and, and, and

creativity and ideas and strategy and blue sky thinking and change.

Uh, if you go down to the base of the model, it's about operational things.

It's doing the doing, you know, the day in, day out sameness

of dealing with patients.

There's some variety in it, but there's a, it's very repetitive,

it's very time orientated.

So you have to be good at, um, managing time and the interface and the kind of

customer service and the relationship.

Left of the model you've got, um, introversion, which is actually about

an, you know, people who are analytical, uh, and, uh, love analyzing things.

They are good at systems, so you might find people are handling finance or, or

legal matters, sitting or, or it sitting on the left hand side of the model.

The right hand side of the model, which is where more, more my energy sits

is around communication and people.

So it's more extroverted.

Uh, and those people tend to be good at, um, you know,

developing and training others.

Uh, at they love, um, variety.

Uh, and they get bored with, they get bored with same.

So maybe I'm doing a number of different things in, in my line of work, new

business development sits in there when you're, you know, being good at talking

to, uh, to, to new people, not, not, obviously you have your work that comes

to you in the, in the healthcare sector.

But by understanding that where people energetically sit, we

find that with my clients, many of 'em find that so helpful.

It's made it saved so much money actually, and so

much stress by doing it.

And so often, uh, we've seen examples where, where someone's about to be

recruited and we look at the talent dynamics, realize the flow doesn't fit.

Uh, and, uh, you know, further interview has identified actually

that the person was unsuitable.

and wouldn't have enjoyed it anyway, but they just, the job

was nearer to home, for example.

What else have you found has helped for self-awareness for people?

We often don't take the time to ask ourselves questions and

journaling those, those answers.

So, you know, what, what makes me truly happy?

Um, what, what are my strengths?

What do I see?

What, what, why am I here?

What, ideally in five or 10 years time, what would my life be like?

Um, how might it differ?

You know, you know, what do, what do I find most frustrating?

What are my prob, what, what are my biggest problems right now when

it might be, when it comes to my finances, to my relationships, to

my work, to my health and fitness?

What are the consequences if I don't do something about them?

What would change in my life if I did?

What would my life look like?

What are the resources that can help me in each of those areas?

Yeah, so just, just sitting down and, yeah, take the time

to ask yourself that stuff.

It, it's not, it's not rocket science.

I think people think, oh, well I can't do that because I don't know

what, I don't know what to ask myself.

So you've just given a list of brilliant questions.

One, someone once said to me, just sit down and, ask

yourself what's on your mind.

Like, how can I solve this?

How can I solve this?

What's about this?

What about this?

Write down all the questions you've got that you're not sure about.

Then answer them.

So understanding what you are actually thinking and, and writing

things down does really help.

It accesses a different bit of your mind, doesn't it?

It can really, um, unlock stuff.

Somebody who used to run, I, I know, um, well, who ran a huge organization across

the globe, uh, I asked him what was the secret to his success, and I know,

know him, he's a family member, so I, I know him very well, but he always, on

a Sunday afternoon, he would go and do, take some time out to work on himself.

And, and he, he said to me, it's the three Ps.

And I said, what's, what are those?

He said, presence of mind, presence of body.

And lots of presence for me and the family for all the crap that

I put 'em through and working so hard and being away from home.

Um, but I think, you know, for me, the presence of mind and the presence

of body are, are really important.

Taking that time to spend some time on yourself, doing the

thinking, asking some questions, getting clear with somebody.

You know, I do a lot of work with people around their purpose in life

and helping them with a statement, and it's very powerful for them, and

amazing things have happened, um, as a consequence of just that piece of work.

I, I have something that's really quite helpful.

It's called Clever Fox, so you can Google that on Amazon, actually.

And, and with even Clever Fox, it's a jour, it's a journal and a diary, and

it asks you those sorts of questions, and you can ask them quarterly, monthly.

There's a little guidebook in there to work out your vision, work out

your purpose, work out some jot down statements that really empower you.

We'll make a list of some good questions and we'll put those in

the, the CPD workbook, which we, uh, provide for ev Every episode we, um,

provide a, a workbook so people can like, reflect and, and claim this back

for the CPD and for their appraisal.

It's great and things like that Clever Fox, we've Got a, a

tool as well, which is sort of self-coaching tool that we can, uh.

Just again, lists of questions.

It doesn't take much, does it?

But it does take time.

It takes time and commitment and, and, and, and giving

yourself permission to do that.

Um, practically I'd, I'd like to know two things.

Firstly, I'd like to know about what causes leaks in energy and are there

any things that have been quite surprising to you but have been

sort of common amongst clients that you, you see that these are actually

the main reasons why your energy.

Just goes.

And then I'm gonna ask you about how we look practically put

these into practice in our lives.

So first of all, energy leaks.

What poke, what pokes holes in your energy bucket?

That's a really interesting one.

I'll give you an answer.

I, I've, which I really resonated with, with one of my interview guests

who ran a, a, a global wellbeing consultancy, and I asked her, had

a bunch, she amazing big clients.

What's the one area that people want to talk about the most, that

they feel, um, you know, contributes the most to their, their stress

in their work, in their life?

And they said teenagers.

Oh, that resonates.

Yes.

I think, I think what we have to realize is that, as I was going back to it,

there's, you know, life is a journey.

Uh, and what we have to see problems, whatever they may, whether they're

teenagers as something that we, we, we need to, you know, we can, we can solve

and actually enjoy, enjoy that journey.

And even if it's a health issue, you know, I, I got a silver

lining from my health issue and I can relate to people now.

I've had real health issues that I couldn't, relate to before there's

a silver lining in most, when I lost my father, there was, uh, it

was, it was difficult, but there was some silver linings that I've

taken away and, and I still in some ways have a relationship with him.

Um, very tough things, but from, from challenging things which we could

allow to us to spiral down by thinking, you know, positively and reframing

them and taking the learnings and the gifts from them, they enable us to.

Become more and, and, and deal with life better to help ourselves and also

help others who are kind of in need.

And a lot of that actually is in your control.

Even when we think that most of the stuff in life is outside of our

control, our energy is actually one thing that that really is quite a lot

of time, quite a lot in our control.

It is.

And I, I think there's, with the teenagers too, we can, we

can have a, we can all naturally have quite, quite rigid brains.

We, we've, you know, linked to our upbringing and our past and our

approach, but actually with teenagers, we have to, there's a requirement to

be really flexible and, and have more flexibility to listen more, be more

sensitive, understand, be prepared to adapt and change ourselves because

some of the challenges we have are, are related to, uh, our expectations.

Final question to you, Chris.

Why don't we take this managing our energy seriously?

I think we, we sometimes know, we put too much, um, too much focus

on the external of what's going on around us and not enough on ourselves.

We can become martyrs to the, to the cause, really.

Because, but actually, you know, you know better than I, you know, far better

than I do, Rachel, with our trillions of cells as a human being, we are amazing.

They all communicate to with each other.

And, uh, we, we need to look after that.

We need to sustain it with the food that we eat, with, uh, uh,

not, you know, not damaging it.

If we, if we can do, we need to look after it, we need to

look after ourselves mentally.

We are really important without, um, looking after ourselves, then actually

we're not there to help the world.

We're actually doing a disservice to the world by not looking after ourselves.

So I think we, we, we forget about ourselves.

Sometimes we get focused on the external.

We forget about the internal.

We don't do the internal work, and suddenly we, we've lost control

and suddenly we're a victim to everything else, and, uh, therefore,

I guess, taking time for you, uh, and fitting you in is essential.

I think nobody is asking you to look after yourself and nobody's

giving you permission to do it.

However, if you don't, nobody likes it.

So, you know, it does seem that things conspire against

you to look after yourself.

But boy, if, if, if you don't, then there's no one gonna help you and

go, well, you know, let me be really compassionate because we didn't

give you permission to look after yourself anyway therefore, we'll

give you, we'll be lenient to you.

Absolutely not.

You really have to take this into, into your own hands.

Just ditch that guilt or the shame that we feel when we are having to

say no to people in order to manage our energy and look after ourselves.

It's so important, isn't it?

What are your three top tips?

Just to finish off?

I, I, I think it, it starts with you.

So how life is going.

You might be in a system that's difficult, but it starts with you

and you've got control over you.

So take the time to, to focus on who you're being.

Take the time out to, to learn about yourself, listen and grow.

Uh, and then when you, you are impacting and working with other

people, you're at your best.

So maybe the next point might be about making those each moment.

Make sure that you are, um, you are equipped, perhaps through techniques

like your breathing, perhaps through.

Through reframing or even, you know, we talk about being, being gratitude,

hasn't shown some gratitude if you need to getting out, if you can get

the time, get out for a walk, but use some kind of strategy to make

sure that you are present in the now for people, and that way, you, you,

you are at your, at your very best.

And actually maybe the, the final one is that, uh, is it's, it's,

life's not all just about work.

It's also about actually being good at life.

Uh, we only get, as with far as we know, we only get one.

So I think make the most of it a young, um, I used, I used to know

a young lad call, called Steven Sutton and Steven had teenage

cancer, uh, and he sadly died.

He became quite famous.

He made about 6 million pounds or something for charity, for

teenage cancer before he died.

And I, I interviewed him only three weeks before he passed away.

Uh uh, and Steven said to me, he said, Chris, he said, I look around the

world and I see so many people, so much time and so little motivation.

Yes, I've got so little time and so much motivation.

And when I'm gone, please, please can you tell everybody

to make every second count.

So maybe just an appreciation for who we are.

Take the time to acknowledge yourself and all the amazing work you've done

to help your patients over the years.

Um, you know, how much service and sacrifice you've given,

you know, acknowledge yourself.

Leave get, leave yourself good and just enjoy the journey of life, I

think is maybe the final message.

That is a, a great, great place to leave it.

Chris, thank you so much for being with us today.

If people wanna get.

A hold of you.

Listen to your, uh, radio show, stroke podcast.

How can they, how can they find out more?

Yeah, probably the best place to do is go to chriscooper.co.uk,

so you can do that.

If you want to contact me, uh, chris@chriscooper.co uk.

Feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn, but you'll find me through

the website probably, anyway.

So there's some resources on there and the radio show's on there.

There's 570, you are coming on my show tomorrow, I think you are the 573rd

episode, so I'm excited about that

We are on about 237 or something like that.

So you've like more than doubled that.

Wow.

Kudos.

That's amazing.

Okay.

Brilliant.

Chris, thank you so much and there's so much we haven't talked about.

I'd love to get you back.

I actually talk about the power of community at some point.

I know that's, that's something that you believe in passionately as well.

Um, so we'll come back again at some point?

Be delighted.

Thank you Chris.

so much.

The great work you're doing and you are helping, you're

helping a, a group of people.

Who were so important to this country and world, and uh, I just want you

to know how much you're appreciated.

Thanks for listening.

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