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Avoiding Burnout by Redefining Success with Rachel Sheerin
Episode 691st December 2021 • This Shit Works • Julie Brown
00:00:00 00:43:15

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What if we redefined what success looks like for us, in our careers and in our relationships. As we become more and more successful in our careers we need to start checking our pulse or our temperature along the way to say, is this what I really want? Is this making me happy? Is this aligning with the values I have or the values that I want? Listen in as I talk with Rachel Sheerin an award winning keynote speaker who has been described as the Brene Brown of Burnout to discuss are we burned out, or are we just tired of all the bullshit in our lives?

Drink of the Week: Peppermint White Russian 

​​https://theforkedspoon.com/holiday-peppermint-white-russian/

This episode is sponsored by Nickerson, a full-service branding, marketing, and PR and communications agency with team members in Boston, LA, Miami, and NYC. https://nickersoncos.com/

Julie Brown:

Website- ​https://juliebrownbd.com/

Instagram- ​https://www.instagram.com/juliebrown_bd/

LinkedIn- ​https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-brown-b6942817/

Youtube- ​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIwWVdayM2mYXzR9JNLJ55Q

Facebook- ​https://www.facebook.com/juliebrownbd/

Rachel Sheerin

https://www.rachelsheerin.com/

https://www.rachelsheerin.com/ooo

Transcripts

Julie:

Chuck Palahniuk is hands down.

Julie:

One of my most favorite authors and his cult classic novel fight

Julie:

club has a lot to teach us about our attachment to material things.

Julie:

About being successful and hating it.

Julie:

And about the American way of constantly flooring, the gas pedal

Julie:

all the way to an empty tank.

Julie:

Welcome to episode 69 of this shit works.

Julie:

I am your host, Julie Brown.

Julie:

And today I am joined by Rachel Sheeran.

Julie:

And award-winning keynote speaker and MC.

Julie:

Who has been described as the Bernay brown of burnout to discuss?

Julie:

Are we burned out?

Julie:

Are we just tired of all the bullshit in our lives.

Julie:

This episode is sponsored by Nickerson.

Julie:

A full service, branding, marketing PR and communications agency

Julie:

with team members in Boston, Los Angeles, Miami and New York city.

Julie:

Visit them.

Julie:

At Nickerson C O S.

Julie:

Dot com.

Julie:

And Rachel's viral.

Julie:

Ted talk, how to burn out and be successful.

Julie:

She comes right out and says it.

Julie:

The American dream is a bunch of bullshit.

Julie:

And yet we still subscribed to it.

Julie:

A fabulous line from fight club is you have a class of young

Julie:

men and women, and they want to give their lives to something.

Julie:

Advertising has these people chasing cars includes they don't need.

Julie:

Generations have been working in jobs.

Julie:

They hate just so they can buy what they don't really need.

Julie:

Let's think about redefining what success looks like for us.

Julie:

In our careers and in our relationships and too bad.

Julie:

So sad.

Julie:

It's not going to be as easy as hanging a live laugh, love

Julie:

quote on the living room wall.

Julie:

That shit isn't doing anything for you.

Julie:

Listen, in addition to being called the Bernay brown of burnout, Rachel

Julie:

has been featured in Inc magazine.

Julie:

Your keynotes have served audiences from Spain to Seattle.

Julie:

And she is the host of the super popular F this S podcast.

Julie:

And because I am a lucky, lucky woman, I get to call her my

Julie:

friend and fellow margarita lover.

Julie:

Rachel.

Julie:

Welcome.

Julie:

Welcome.

Rachel:

Thank you so much, Julie longtime pan first-time guests.

Rachel:

I am goading you on that.

Rachel:

And I will say there is something So

Rachel:

quintessential.

Rachel:

Can we just throw it back real quick?

Rachel:

Remember when you used to call into the radio and you'd be

Rachel:

like, Hey, my name's Rachel.

Rachel:

I want to, you know, request an access and dedicated to my friend, Julie, tell

Rachel:

her, see you in chemistry class, like that kind of acknowledgement and that

Rachel:

kind of excitement and anticipation.

Rachel:

I just want to put a wish out there that it comes back it's that

Rachel:

idea of somebody saw something.

Rachel:

I thought of you, somebody wanted to request it and then you were shouted out.

Rachel:

It's part of the reason I'm I'm part of Peloton nation.

Rachel:

I just.

Rachel:

hit my century ride, shout out to Ben Aldis.

Rachel:

Cause I know he's a huge fan of your podcast, Julie.

Rachel:

He shouted me out on my century ride and I was like,

Julie:

I did my 700th ride on Thursday.

Julie:

I went home early to do a five o'clock intervals in arms ride.

Julie:

My leaderboard name is Mrs.

Julie:

Julie Brown, and I got a shout out and it went like this.

Julie:

It was with Jen Sherman.

Julie:

She said, Mrs.

Julie:

Julie Brown, how you doing?

Rachel:

Oh,

Julie:

many times I ain't even going to do that?

Julie:

Right.

Rachel:

I mean, literally, do you know how many times I'm going to

Rachel:

do that ride and just, it doesn't matter if I hate the playlist.

Rachel:

It doesn't matter.

Rachel:

The gen Sherman is beating me up from the inside out and giving

Rachel:

me straight mom guilt vibes.

Rachel:

Yes, I will do that.

Rachel:

Oh, congratulations.

Rachel:

Jewelry, jewelry, jewelry, jewelry.

Rachel:

And no margarita is, were consumed doing this during this podcast.

Julie:

had, we should.

Julie:

We're recording currently at 10 o'clock in the morning.

Julie:

We should have done it at six o'clock at night.

Rachel:

There's always round too, because Julia can tell you, this is going to be

Rachel:

one of the more popular episodes, because we're getting to the point so quickly,

Julie:

right there we are.

Julie:

We like to drink margarita point.

Rachel:

so true or pina coladas as we discussed

Julie:

Yes.

Julie:

Or earlier.

Julie:

Oh yeah.

Julie:

So let's, you know, I'm going to throw up this script here.

Julie:

I was going to ask you about your burnout story, but let's just,

Julie:

let's just throw out this script.

Julie:

We were talking, we were chatting before we started this podcast

Julie:

because that's what we do.

Julie:

And she asked how my vacation.

Julie:

I had just gone on vacation.

Julie:

I went to Grenada, I went for eight days.

Julie:

I sat on the beach and did nothing but drink and read books and it was lovely.

Julie:

But I was talking about my out of office reply, which I spent some time

Julie:

doing it because after talking with drew Davis, a mutual friend of ours,

Julie:

drew Davis, who was on the podcast, he said, think about every interaction

Julie:

your client has with you as an emoji.

Julie:

And what emoji would you assign to.

Julie:

Interactions.

Julie:

So I thought of what is the typical out of office email it's

Julie:

I'm currently out of the office.

Julie:

My responses will be delayed.

Julie:

I'll return,

Rachel:

straight face emotion.

Rachel:

It's like the, I don't give a hoot emoji.

Julie:

It's like the bland emojis.

Julie:

So I said, okay, I'm going on a tropical vacation for the first

Julie:

time in, I don't know how long.

Julie:

Um, out of office, when something like this, instead of out of

Julie:

office as the subject reply, it was, do you like pina coladas?

Julie:

And then in the body of the email, it said I'm away on a

Julie:

much needed tropical vacation.

Julie:

Paranthetically doesn't that sound nice?

Julie:

Why don't you take a mini vacation with me?

Julie:

I created a Spotify playlist called beachy vibes playlist,

Julie:

which was reggae Bobby McFerrin.

Julie:

It was awesome.

Julie:

I gave a link to my favorite pina colada recipe and I put in a gift.

Julie:

Of a couple of swinging back and forth in hammock, which was super, super calming.

Julie:

And then I said, I'm not responding to your email.

Julie:

Here's the, here's the email from my assistant.

Julie:

And that got us talking about a great point that you had about setting

Julie:

boundaries when you're on vacation.

Rachel:

Yeah, well, you know, I think it comes my side of things is, I have

Rachel:

a background in sales, so I'm a sales executive leader for a really long time.

Rachel:

And one of the things that I was important to me was I work in fun.

Rachel:

I work in love.

Rachel:

I work in celebration.

Rachel:

So I was in the events industry for a long time.

Rachel:

So I'm thinking about, okay, how are.

Rachel:

Constantly making our clients feel their families feel, especially, if you've

Rachel:

ever been around maybe a couple getting married, the closer you get to the date,

Rachel:

it's this incredible Everest of stress.

Rachel:

And then this parachuting of joy, hopefully, or it's an avalanche of

Rachel:

stress down the other side, you know, you choose, choose your players wisely.

Rachel:

That's what I'd like to say there.

Rachel:

All that to say, out of offices, my argument always was out

Rachel:

of offices are fantastic.

Rachel:

They just are used super poorly.

Rachel:

Like out of off, you don't dislike out of offices.

Rachel:

You just hate sucky ones.

Rachel:

And so do I, because the most out of offices that we get are something

Rachel:

in the bane of, Hey, got your email.

Rachel:

I don't care about you.

Rachel:

Call someone who.

Rachel:

I mean, literally, like I don't give a, uh, you know, like anyone,

Rachel:

but me and sometimes it's, I mean, I really applaud these people.

Rachel:

I don't know how they do it.

Rachel:

I grew up Catholic, so I would feel too guilty.

Rachel:

But how about those out of office emails that are like, I am out

Rachel:

of the office until October 29th.

Julie:

October 1st.

Rachel:

Yeah,

Rachel:

And you're like, and eight.

Rachel:

Yes.

Rachel:

Totally totally.

Rachel:

But you know, so part of my burnout story is I absolutely, you know, I was loving my

Rachel:

clients, loving my sales, all this stuff.

Rachel:

But what I started to realize was, we fight inboxes all the

Rachel:

time and what I was doing outside of my inbox was really important.

Rachel:

And so I came up with a series of templates that honestly engage your,

Rachel:

um, either whether it's clients, whether it's internal team members, whether it's

Rachel:

prospective clients that are emailing.

Rachel:

Um, they're interesting.

Rachel:

They let your personality shines out of office messages because

Rachel:

Julie, let me tell you this.

Rachel:

If your listeners are going to a conference and they're

Rachel:

out of office doesn't say.

Rachel:

Hi, I am currently onsite, attending XYZ conference so that

Rachel:

I can prove as a professional and a connected vendor for you.

Rachel:

We're at the Indianapolis Marriott downtown.

Rachel:

I can't wait to eat some, shrimp cocktail at St.

Rachel:

Elmo's steakhouse.

Rachel:

You know, letting people be part of what are you doing?

Rachel:

Why does it matter to them?

Rachel:

How does it make you better, here's the thing.

Rachel:

You go on vacation to Grenada.

Rachel:

Julie, take me with you.

Rachel:

And you did, and I bet here's the thing.

Rachel:

It's.

Rachel:

You want to see as people go nuts, go ahead and put in your email

Rachel:

signature that you're going to Disney.

Rachel:

Holy smokes.

Rachel:

People come out of the woodwork and they're sending

Rachel:

you pictures of their babies.

Rachel:

And you know, their cat dye that are Nicky mouse, years.

Rachel:

And what's even cooler is that when you have an out of office that, that

Rachel:

stands out, you stand out when you have an auto of office that shares your joy.

Rachel:

There's a saying that I love that says the joy share.

Rachel:

Is joy multiplied.

Rachel:

I also ask you to text me a picture of your very cute

Rachel:

dog, because I like cute dogs.

Rachel:

And so, Julie, I can't tell you, have you ever landed from a flight and just

Rachel:

had a bunch of dogs texted to you?

Rachel:

It's great.

Rachel:

You don't even mind the loss baggage.

Julie:

I'm flying Tomorrow to give a keynote.

Julie:

And I'm going to do that.

Julie:

I'm going to ask for a picture of a text, text me a picture of your

Julie:

dog because I love text messages.

Julie:

I think that's.

Julie:

You have to decide how you really like to interact with people.

Julie:

So if you call my cell phone, it says you've reached the voicemail

Julie:

of Julie Brown, hang up and text me.

Julie:

Cause I don't, we, I don't listen to

Rachel:

the honesty.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

I'm in, you know what, that's such a good point because with apps like Marco

Rachel:

polo, with being able to voice note, with being able to, record your zooms or looms

Rachel:

or whatever other, services you want.

Rachel:

I agree.

Rachel:

It's about finding what works.

Rachel:

I drown in emails.

Rachel:

Since we're speakers, I'm actually better speaking than I am writing.

Rachel:

So it takes me a longer time just to reply to emails.

Rachel:

Cause I want to sit down and I want to be perfect the out of office too.

Rachel:

I just want to say out loud that, you know, some of the great things is that,

Rachel:

it allows people to know passively what's going on in your life or what your

Rachel:

values are or what your boundaries are.

Rachel:

Because to me, one of the hardest things to do is not be stuck to my inbox because

Rachel:

I want to provide great customer service.

Rachel:

And what I really know is true is providing great customer service to

Rachel:

my current clients means that I need to do deep work on the MC script of

Rachel:

a three-day conference that I have,

Julie:

Exactly.

Rachel:

And if I don't put some boundaries around that,

Julie:

So are you suggesting that people make a practice of doing an out of office?

Julie:

If they need time to work on something else?

Julie:

Not just, if they're going, we always do it just when we're going on vacation.

Julie:

So do you suggest we do it say I need two days where I'm not

Julie:

responding to emails all the time?

Julie:

Is that a really good?

Julie:

I haven't done that.

Julie:

Is that a good practice?

Rachel:

I, so you will almost always, I would say.

Rachel:

Uh, out of the 30 days in a month, if you'd count the weekends, I tend to those

Rachel:

states, I probably have a different out of office on, so you got to switch it up.

Rachel:

It can't be the same out of office.

Rachel:

That's when people think that you're kind of ignoring them.

Rachel:

So just a word to the wise, but some of the phrases that I use and

Rachel:

that are in my templates are I am currently focused on my clients are a

Rachel:

hundred percent focused on my clients.

Rachel:

Like I will be focused on you soon.

Rachel:

what check mate?

Rachel:

Like I want your a hundred percent focus and spoiler alert, Julie, when I'm on

Rachel:

stage, I can't manage any other clients.

Rachel:

I'm given a thousand percent of that audience.

Rachel:

A Another one that I have is, I'm doing deep work and then I'll link to Cal

Rachel:

Newton's book about deep work, right.

Rachel:

Or an article from HBR.

Rachel:

Sometimes.

Rachel:

I mean, I am, I'm in love with my husband.

Rachel:

We call him king Sheeran around here.

Rachel:

And so a lot of my burnout prevention practices, encourage

Rachel:

spending time with him.

Rachel:

I need quality time and I enjoy quality time.

Rachel:

So Fridays or Mondays, you might catch me out and I'll say, Hey,

Rachel:

listen, I've snuck out on this Friday.

Rachel:

Sorry, not sorry.

Rachel:

Here's the study or here's the recent podcast or here's a blog that says.

Rachel:

, the statistic for 2020 was 76% of Americans use less than two

Rachel:

days of vacation days last year.

Rachel:

And the people that use All of the.

Rachel:

Like, I mean, under it's a single digit percentage, which to me, this

Rachel:

is how I know I'm unemployable.

Rachel:

I have to be an entrepreneur.

Rachel:

I use so many vacation days.

Rachel:

Yes, But you know, it's amazing too.

Rachel:

And Julie, have you had this, you know, kind of situation when

Rachel:

I was personally burning out, I got stuck in the wishing pits.

Rachel:

I would see people doing stuff.

Rachel:

Must be nice.

Rachel:

I wish oh, like lucky them.

Rachel:

Like I can't do that.

Rachel:

You know, I wish, I wish I wish.

Rachel:

And it's like, yo, you know what?

Rachel:

You, you listen to Julia say she's gone to Grenada cheap, caribbean.com.

Rachel:

All right.

Rachel:

Book a book, a flight to the Dominican.

Rachel:

It's not that complicated, but we wish, and we wish, and we wish

Rachel:

without giving us any boundaries.

Rachel:

I will admit that for boundaries that are giving myself space and asking people

Rachel:

to pause, it's easier to do it passively for me through out of offices, then tell

Rachel:

people, Hey, these are my boundaries.

Rachel:

You know, we don't work on Fridays through the summer, which is

Rachel:

a real thing for me, but, but,

Julie:

Fridays year round.

Rachel:

Well, and here's, I love that.

Julie:

worked for a couple hours in the morning.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

I mean, it's at your discretion, right?

Rachel:

If it's fun, if you need to like all that stuff, but here's the thing.

Rachel:

It's not my clients or my prospects jobs to know my boundaries,

Rachel:

it's our job to enforce them.

Rachel:

And that's where, you know, people ask all the time, what's burnout burnout.

Rachel:

As I define it is when joy leaves your work.

Rachel:

And the three main causes are the people we serve, the people we train.

Rachel:

And the person we are is burning us out.

Rachel:

And especially the people we serve that can be our clients.

Rachel:

It can be our team members, it can be our leaders.

Rachel:

Um, sometimes it can be, if we feel like we're serving our

Rachel:

families, but when you're thinking, gosh, I just, I have no control.

Rachel:

I'm all tied up.

Rachel:

Okay.

Rachel:

How can we, if you're feeling so underwater, how can we passively do it?

Rachel:

Another tip is, when we get back to traveling, if you travel

Rachel:

a lot for your job, why not?

Rachel:

Under your signature put up, uh, upcoming travel dates or upcoming out of office.

Rachel:

And you don't have to define what it is.

Rachel:

You know, if you're going to Oshkosh, Wisconsin, see your mother-in-law, first

Rachel:

of all, praying for you, second of all.

Rachel:

Just put it on there because here's the really cool thing.

Rachel:

When the more you let yourself shine through the law of similarity comes into.

Rachel:

You know, I can't tell you how many times I've gone to St.

Rachel:

Joseph, Missouri.

Rachel:

And then someone's like, my husband's from St.

Rachel:

Joseph, Missouri.

Rachel:

And I'm like, that's amazing.

Rachel:

It's the closer you can get to people.

Rachel:

The more, opportunities you can, but it also reinforces this idea

Rachel:

of we are not all accessing.

Rachel:

And I think that's one of those things.

Rachel:

If you feel like you have to be accessible, that might be burning you out.

Rachel:

If you want to be always successful.

Rachel:

That's where it's.

Rachel:

I would encourage everybody to say, what, what are you so busy, avoiding?

Rachel:

Because being accessible all the time, that's not a normal operating.

Julie:

that's a district.

Julie:

Yeah, that's

Rachel:

And by the way, that's coming from somebody that has been a professional

Rachel:

runaway or for a really long time.

Rachel:

All Right.

Rachel:

Turns out that your problems have way more stamina than you could

Rachel:

ever, imagine, which is disappointing and impressive all at the same time.

Julie:

You know, what I love about this conversation is I had no idea.

Julie:

We were going to be talking about, you know, sort of out of office and

Julie:

what that means, and it is a way.

Julie:

We don't take vacations.

Julie:

And when we're on vacations, we're still completely connected.

Julie:

So I love this idea of using the out of office as a way of building a

Julie:

boundary, but like we've just said, I also want people to realize that it is

Julie:

such an important way of, showing who you are, what you're interested in,

Julie:

giving people a glimpse into your life.

Julie:

And when I give speeches, I always talk about the, what

Julie:

do you do versus who you are?

Julie:

And in work, we're always about our profession, what we do for a

Julie:

living and we ignore the who we are and we're going to build stronger

Julie:

relationships and stronger networks.

Julie:

If we let people in to see what we're doing.

Rachel:

I mean, that's honestly, one of the things I love about your work,

Rachel:

Julie, and, seeing you speak and hearing you speak is you really are about,

Rachel:

you know, that difference between what you do, but really who you are.

Rachel:

And then also to the confidence to own it, the confidence and the authenticity

Rachel:

to really show up and to have a great, like, you know, when we met, um, in

Rachel:

Las Vegas, Just the energy around you, , and having that magnet, because

Rachel:

I will say some people, um, and I have had clients or prospects that have said

Rachel:

this, you know, prospects that think might energy's a little too much and,

Rachel:

you know, Good because, because we are going to have a long-term relationship.

Rachel:

It's about the vibe and if we're our vibes, you know,

Rachel:

the more that I can kind of.

Rachel:

Batman light shine my light in the air.

Rachel:

First of all, it gives everyone else around me to shine their

Rachel:

weird lights in the air.

Rachel:

And they're fabulous lights in there and they're the dazzled lights in the air.

Rachel:

But secondly, what's so cool is that we get to find our people faster.

Rachel:

And is that something like, to me, if I were to have like a Christmas wish

Rachel:

in one of those really cheesy hallmark movies, I instead of like world peace

Rachel:

or anything like that, I would wish.

Rachel:

That people would feel less alone Right.

Rachel:

now.

Rachel:

And it starts with being less alone with yourself, like being goofy.

Rachel:

If you're going to a star Trek convention, if you're playing in a magic, the

Rachel:

gathering tournament, if you were going to plant radishes on your family farm

Rachel:

for like the 40th year in a row, great.

Rachel:

It's a cool world when we can get a little closer to.

Rachel:

And with, without doing a super heavy lift.

Julie:

Yeah, and I think that's it.

Julie:

And with networking people always say, I don't have time to network.

Julie:

It's it's it's too time consuming.

Julie:

How am I going to fit it in my schedule?

Julie:

Not number one.

Julie:

You make time for the things that are important to you, but number two, there

Julie:

are such creative ways, especially now that we've been living in a virtual

Julie:

world for 18, 19 months, you're such a creative way of connecting with someone.

Julie:

All you have to do is just think a little bit about how I could do this.

Julie:

One thing differently.

Julie:

How can I add a little bit of bling to it?

Rachel:

It's so true.

Rachel:

And Julie, as you were talking about it?

Rachel:

When we talk about networking or connecting

Rachel:

I feel like it's something that you actively do, but people forgot a

Rachel:

lot of times it's actually, it can be actively something that you just

Rachel:

welcome that you put like dinner out on the front porch and you say,

Rachel:

come on, y'all come down and get it.

Rachel:

You know?

Rachel:

And people are hungry for that.

Rachel:

You know, people that's the Southern and me coming out right there, but

Rachel:

like people really will come and get it, it's not nearly the heavy lift.

Rachel:

And when it comes to burnout, I'll tell you at my darkest deepest burnout,

Rachel:

about five years ago, I mean, we're talking, I had the corner office,

Rachel:

the big team, the six figure salary.

Rachel:

Like things were on the up and up and yet.

Rachel:

I was more successful than I'd ever been.

Rachel:

And I was getting more miserable as my success.

Rachel:

I had really grown.

Rachel:

And one of the things I think that I realized was I took away

Rachel:

and I really denied myself a lot of the things that brought me

Rachel:

joy in my darkest burnout times.

Rachel:

And for me, that is definitely people.

Rachel:

It's definitely networking.

Rachel:

You know, it's using the B word busy, you know, I mean, that's like

Rachel:

the biggest cuss word in the world.

Rachel:

To me, I'm like busy.

Rachel:

Congratulations, gold star gold star.

Julie:

you know, I'm so busy, I'm so busy.

Julie:

Cause if you're not busy, well, what the fuck's wrong with you?

Julie:

Everybody's busy.

Julie:

So if you're not busy, like, are you lazy?

Julie:

You know,

Rachel:

And it's such a loaded word.

Rachel:

It is interesting.

Rachel:

It's like, yeah, if you're not busy, then what?

Rachel:

And it's oh, I'm so happy.

Rachel:

Like when's the last time.

Rachel:

And to your point, it's like, you know, instead of what we do, it's who are you?

Rachel:

One of the things that I think is so cool is, and personally,

Rachel:

I just love sharing and asking.

Rachel:

I was like, what do you love?

Rachel:

Like, what do you love?

Rachel:

Like, I love dogs.

Rachel:

My husband margarita is meeting new people.

Rachel:

I love bloody Mary's.

Rachel:

I love new Orleans in Seattle, you know?

Rachel:

Hmm, No, bloody Mary's for you.

Julie:

No, I can't do tomato,

Rachel:

Oh, oh.

Rachel:

See, my mom was a VA eater and I grew up really.

Rachel:

I got confused.

Rachel:

I'm not gonna lie, Julie.

Rachel:

I got really confused.

Rachel:

I totally thought a bloody Mary was basically like today's

Rachel:

juice cleanse growing up.

Rachel:

And I was like, I am a pillar of health.

Rachel:

So I started drinking bloody Marys, perhaps under age thinking

Rachel:

that they were like atonic.

Rachel:

We're good.

Julie:

You said something that I think is going to ring true for

Julie:

a lot of people who listen and that is we become more miserable.

Julie:

I'm paraphrasing.

Julie:

We become more miserable.

Julie:

The more successful we become.

Julie:

And I don't know if it's the stress of maintaining that success or

Julie:

it's because in order to gain that success, you did have to give up

Julie:

the things that were joyful in your life that you made time for.

Julie:

What is your advice for somebody who has burned out and left that job?

Julie:

What is your advice to someone who says I am the most successful I've ever been?

Julie:

I'm making the most money I've ever made and I'm fucking miserable.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

well, I do want to say it loud.

Rachel:

It doesn't have to be that way, but that's where I really take issue.

Rachel:

I think with the American dream, the American dream got set up, whereas.

Rachel:

No, you go to school, you get good grades, all this kind of stuff.

Rachel:

You start upgrading, your income, your house, your

Rachel:

spouse, all this kind of stuff.

Rachel:

And supposedly you'll be happy and you'll be successful.

Rachel:

And what I think we don't realize is that success as it's billed to us is

Rachel:

kind of like, it's kind of like an Easter bunny that's made of chocolate, you

Rachel:

know, the super hollow on the inside.

Rachel:

And you're like, this thing is majestic and then you crack it open and you're.

Rachel:

This thing is not that good.

Rachel:

And I think, that's a long way of saying when it comes to what's inside

Rachel:

what you're looking for success to me, I look at where did you get those

Rachel:

ideas of success who taught them to you whose opinions really really matter.

Rachel:

And then I want to encourage you to check.

Rachel:

That when we achieve certain success, what's incredible is that we do ourselves,

Rachel:

the disservice of not checking our pulse or checking our temperature along the

Rachel:

way to say, is this what I really want?

Rachel:

Is this making me happy.

Rachel:

Is this aligning with the values I have or the values that I want?

Rachel:

it's hilarious.

Rachel:

You mentioned live, laugh.

Rachel:

Love.

Rachel:

I like to say that when I ask people about their values, it sounds like a gardener

Rachel:

sign, live, laugh, love friends, family.

Rachel:

And here's the thing.

Rachel:

I'm not judging anybody.

Rachel:

You tell me, friends, family, faith.

Rachel:

I'm cool with it.

Rachel:

But what you value shows up in where you spend your money and where you

Rachel:

spend your time, don't tell me friends, family, faith, and you're missing

Rachel:

bedtime, or you're missing family reunions, or Sunday dinner, right?

Rachel:

With, with your mom.

Rachel:

Don't tell me friends, family, faith, and your side at 1130 with the happy

Rachel:

birthday text or you're calling out on girls wine night, you know,

Rachel:

don't tell me friends, family face.

Rachel:

You're not tightening 10%.

Rachel:

You're not active in your church or synagogue or mosque

Rachel:

or going out in nature.

Rachel:

If that's your church.

Rachel:

I don't care what your values are.

Rachel:

Don't tell me it's health and then try and go through the McDonald's

Rachel:

drive through getting dollar Dr.

Rachel:

Peppers.

Rachel:

I've tried.

Rachel:

It does not work.

Rachel:

All I'm trying to say, here is when the person you're being and

Rachel:

the person you want to be are in congruent with each other.

Rachel:

When that's braking, you're going to realize that you've been going

Rachel:

up a mountain that honestly doesn't have any views that you want, that

Rachel:

wasn't that fun to climb anyway, that you've sacrificed along the way.

Rachel:

And what's incredible is that you thought you had.

Rachel:

And that's one of the coolest things about living in the world today

Rachel:

is that I honestly believe that you do not have to do anything.

Rachel:

You get to do it, and even better, the magic comes when you want to do.

Rachel:

Do you want success?

Rachel:

What kind of success do you want?

Rachel:

Is it time?

Rachel:

Freedom kind of success?

Rachel:

Is it, where you're just hanging out with your kids a lot more.

Rachel:

Is it where you're up on stage?

Rachel:

I'll tell you mine was traveling the world.

Rachel:

Mine was helping people not leave jobs and teams.

Rachel:

They loved because they burned out.

Rachel:

I through laptop.

Rachel:

Um, when I was burning out, like I had a complete meltdown

Rachel:

at work and I had no income, no references, no friends, by the way.

Rachel:

Cause everyone I worked with was my friend.

Rachel:

I had totally missed that.

Rachel:

And I had built this incredible career only to be left high and dry by basically

Rachel:

everyone, in the end, Julie, I know.

Rachel:

I knew what I was building was wearing me down.

Rachel:

I knew what I was sacrificing was in congruent with the person that I was.

Rachel:

And I just, I didn't slow down and I didn't have the courage enough

Rachel:

to say, if not this, then what?

Rachel:

And I might challenge your listeners to say, Like you're feeling burned out.

Rachel:

If you're like, you know, this cannot go on I'm, in a chronic

Rachel:

state of unhappiness at work, I'm exhausted, increased illnesses.

Rachel:

You've got some murdered him syndrome going on there.

Rachel:

Hello.

Rachel:

I would encourage you to say, where'd you get your definition of success?

Rachel:

Is that really true for you?

Rachel:

Who's invested in that, you know, cause I will say one of the things that blew

Rachel:

my mind was how open my friends and family were once I told them that I

Rachel:

didn't want to be a C-suite corner.

Rachel:

Exactly.

Rachel:

And here's the thing.

Rachel:

I didn't want to be that anymore, but I also wanted to

Rachel:

be a six figure business owner.

Rachel:

And that's, I think a myth about burnout is burnout.

Rachel:

It's like, oh, go to the spa.

Rachel:

Oh, chill out.

Rachel:

Oh, you know, I mean, Yes.

Rachel:

I was unemployed for a while as I was starting my business

Rachel:

and figuring things out.

Rachel:

But I'm the first one to admit when you were burning out or when, you know,

Rachel:

you know, someone or love someone and want to support them through burnout.

Rachel:

I think one of the greatest things you can acknowledge is that this is

Rachel:

a process and this is a little bit of unlearning that pressure, especially

Rachel:

high-performers put on ourselves.

Julie:

Right.

Julie:

Yeah.

Julie:

I love the idea of is your version of 60.

Julie:

Implanted in you by somebody else.

Julie:

And somebody tells you, this is what success looks like or not.

Julie:

Maybe not even that, maybe it's just the compounding factors of how you grew up.

Julie:

the environments in which you grew up, which you either said,

Julie:

I'm never going to be like this.

Julie:

I have to get out of this.

Julie:

What does getting out of this look like?

Julie:

And then you define success by the negative of something else.

Rachel:

the proving, right?

Rachel:

I'm going to prove them wrong.

Rachel:

I'm going to prove them that, you know, this is who I am not, this is who I am.

Rachel:

Right.

Rachel:

And so, you work tirelessly.

Rachel:

It's one of the greatest things I think I ever learned was

Rachel:

that no one thinks about me.

Rachel:

Nearly as much as I think about me.

Rachel:

Right.

Rachel:

Which was by the way, so mind blowing and I wish I could get some years

Rachel:

back, but you know, it is what it is.

Rachel:

Thanks for the lessons.

Rachel:

But that's, I think one of the cool things about burnout, a cool, maybe double-sided.

Rachel:

But burnout , it's a surprise because it often happens to people who care deeply.

Rachel:

People who are high performers, people who are above average

Rachel:

in, um, performance and goals.

Rachel:

You know, this is not something that happens to people who are like, oh,

Rachel:

I'm going to clock animal to clock out.

Rachel:

I don't really care.

Rachel:

This is for the people that got.

Rachel:

Way too much, which by the way, is super valuable in our society.

Rachel:

It's the people who are ultra passionate, you know, I mean, you can tell when

Rachel:

people are passionate, I have a girlfriend named Liz and, um, she's got three girls

Rachel:

and this woman loves being a mother.

Rachel:

So incredibly much.

Rachel:

It is so not what I am passionate about.

Rachel:

I don't have kids, but I can see them and I can see how great her girls are.

Rachel:

And I'm like, wow, that's incredible.

Rachel:

The same thing is true.

Rachel:

Um, when people are very passionate and they're putting it into their work or

Rachel:

their family or their health or, or the world in their community, whatever it is.

Rachel:

But when you see it, when it's in concurrent, When they're passionate

Rachel:

about something and something's beating them down at the same

Rachel:

time when they're passionate about something, but it's killing the

Rachel:

thing that they value the most.

Rachel:

Listen, we got to find the ad.

Rachel:

You know, there's, there's no reason in my personal opinion,

Rachel:

especially with, you know, the way, the way the economy is going Right.

Rachel:

now, there is, if you want to, I'm happy at your job right now, there

Rachel:

was somebody that would love the opportunity to be part of your team,

Rachel:

to learn from the people around you.

Rachel:

The boss you hate is somebody else's ideal.

Rachel:

The team members that are annoying.

Rachel:

Somebody else's new best friends.

Rachel:

So stop robbing somebody else of the opportunity to take your spot and stop

Rachel:

denying yourself the opportunity to find what it is that you really like.

Rachel:

And by the way, you might have to try on a few things.

Rachel:

That's okay.

Rachel:

That's the whole point of life we're supposed to evolve.

Rachel:

I really, I think we do ourselves a disservice by glorifying

Rachel:

people who knew what they were going to do from a young age.

Rachel:

Do you agree?

Julie:

Yeah, I just did this episode with Terry . Who's another

Julie:

professional speaker of her upcoming book and follow your passion.

Julie:

And it's all about, what if I don't know what my, what if I don't know

Julie:

what I'm supposed to be doing?

Julie:

I didn't similar to you.

Julie:

Like I, I worked in, in large corporations and I made a ton of money and I was not.

Julie:

Happy and I was burnt out and I didn't start my business till I was 39 years old.

Julie:

And that's when I was like, oh, hot, damn this, this is it.

Julie:

I was 39.

Julie:

People was 39.

Julie:

You can reinvent yourself at any time.

Rachel:

It's incredible and you know, what's so cool is I think, I often think

Rachel:

about even on the, I think tougher days of business ownership, it's still like

Rachel:

there's blissful challenge in what we do.

Rachel:

There's still a lot of fun.

Rachel:

I would still submit that because we do others.

Rachel:

Can, I think that's one of the coolest things about people who do suffer

Rachel:

from burnout is they also, you know, burnout, isn't a one-time occurrence.

Rachel:

It's something that you have better muscle memory on that you try and

Rachel:

catch yourself earlier on that, you know, you're more vigilant after the.

Rachel:

Time or two that it happens, but what's so cool about it is, is that

Rachel:

the point of burnout isn't to heal it and then to not care anymore.

Rachel:

The point of burnout is to be able to harness that fire and to create

Rachel:

an impactful life and an impactful career and impactful personhood on

Rachel:

this earth while also valuing yourself enough, listening to yourself enough,

Rachel:

trusting yourself enough, Right.

Rachel:

Half a burnout.

Rachel:

I feel like looking back.

Rachel:

I could have prevented it.

Rachel:

If I had believed my intuition.

Rachel:

And been reassured that the people in my life loved me, not for what I was doing

Rachel:

or who I like, what I was making or my title, but they love me for who I am.

Rachel:

And by the way, the evidence points overwhelmingly.

Rachel:

But they loved me for who I was.

Rachel:

I just had this thought that, for example, my husband, we had just

Rachel:

gotten married and I, at the time was the breadwinner in the family.

Rachel:

And I was like, well, I can't, I'm the breadwinner.

Rachel:

We'll then buy cheaper bread.

Rachel:

You know, we we've figured it out.

Rachel:

And I think that's one of those things.

Rachel:

Anyone that's ever been in a variety of an economic situations, it's, when

Rachel:

you take that leap, it's amazing what being up against a wall will make you

Rachel:

industrious And it's once a month.

Rachel:

I will say in my research, I've spoken to maybe a little over 5,500

Rachel:

folks at this time doing research for my book and it's amazing.

Rachel:

And honestly, it's in double digits now, but the amount of people that

Rachel:

realize they were burned out when someone died or when they almost died,

Rachel:

that it was the big wake up call.

Rachel:

And, I'm the first one to admit, Julie, let's just remind

Rachel:

it reminisce for a minute.

Rachel:

Remember when we used to go into the office, super sick to like,

Rachel:

prove that we were really dedicated.

Julie:

yeah.

Rachel:

Um,

Julie:

we just get everybody else sick.

Rachel:

Um, never again, never again,

Julie:

That is true.

Julie:

That won't happen again.

Julie:

You, you, I mean,

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

but it should have never happened in the first place.

Rachel:

And I think that's one of the things that's super interesting too.

Rachel:

And you know, I'm I I'm, I live in America, you live in America for

Rachel:

those who don't live in America.

Rachel:

I do just want to say this is a very American problem that.

Rachel:

is in, in, in S is spreading across industrious nations because, um,

Rachel:

you know, Americans overwhelmingly.

Rachel:

I think the latest statistics at 64% from the pew research said 64% of people

Rachel:

identify as their job, which Julie, I

Julie:

I'm actually surprised it's not higher than that.

Rachel:

well, you know what it's it's cause the unemployment

Rachel:

is up, which good for them.

Rachel:

They're like, I'm unemployed.

Rachel:

I don't want to identify as

Julie:

yeah, yeah,

Rachel:

I mean, when you think about that, That

Julie:

That goes back to the who you are versus what do you do that

Julie:

goes back that's that's the Genesis.

Julie:

It's the nucleus of the problem.

Rachel:

Totally.

Rachel:

And you know, what's incredible is, this might be the great reset

Rachel:

that we need to remember that.

Rachel:

And I don't think that we're going to see burnout go away.

Rachel:

What I think we're going to do is, the wall street journal

Rachel:

did an incredible study.

Rachel:

It said, it asks CEOs of fortune 500.

Rachel:

You burned out the CEOs anonymously were like, hell Yeah.

Rachel:

we are.

Rachel:

96% said yes, 11% had mentioned it to someone.

Rachel:

And that's, I think the big theme of grit, the big secret about like being successful

Rachel:

and burning out, being successful and struggling being a leader and

Julie:

you're supposed to do it and make it look easy.

Julie:

Like, are you really successful?

Julie:

If, if it is hard and you know, like it's, yes, it's hard.

Julie:

And, that is where we have to strip away the stigma around saying this is hard.

Julie:

I don't know what to do.

Julie:

I need to talk to someone there's just too much stigma around it.

Julie:

The fact that , that 11% had talked to someone about it.

Julie:

Like that is because there's, there's this idea that you're just supposed to cowboy

Julie:

up in and get the work done because no one wants to fucking hear how hard it is.

Julie:

Well, it's not a true.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Rachel:

human leaders.

Rachel:

And I think that's one of the things too, just thinking about it, we're leaders

Rachel:

in every sense of the way, whether it says it on our org charts or not like

Rachel:

you're the leaders of your family, your, you have influence over your

Rachel:

neighbors, your community, and everyone has that kind of leadership in them.

Rachel:

But the most important job that we will ever have in leadership is the

Rachel:

self-leadership of ourselves to give.

Rachel:

The assessments to give ourselves the, how can I help you develop talks?

Rachel:

The, what are you struggling with tox?

Rachel:

How about giving ourselves the empathy we would give anybody else the

Rachel:

patients we would give anybody else?

Rachel:

You know, that the words that we think, as my friend Christine says,

Rachel:

she thinks a lot of should, should always should do This I should do that.

Rachel:

Don't should all over yourself.

Rachel:

This is one of those things where we have to be extra vigilant because

Rachel:

we're coaching ourselves constantly on what it is that we should be doing.

Rachel:

And that can burn us out.

Rachel:

Listen, half the stuff we say in our minds, I don't know about you, but

Rachel:

sometimes if I'm struggling with something on how to be having a bad

Rachel:

day, my mind's not in the right place.

Rachel:

I'll catch myself thinking something and I'll be like, I

Rachel:

would not say that to my friend.

Rachel:

I wouldn't say it to my enemy.

Rachel:

you get out of there, like,

Julie:

should do.

Julie:

This is what you should do.

Julie:

You're going to get it.

Julie:

Not many people see this picture.

Julie:

This is me when I was, I don't know how old I am.

Julie:

There's no date on the back.

Julie:

I keep this on.

Julie:

In an envelope.

Julie:

So if I'm starting to talk shit to myself, I say what I say that to her, that little

Julie:

girl with the adorable fucking pigtails.

Julie:

No, you wouldn't.

Rachel:

Julie, I knew you'd be an icon from that.

Rachel:

pick going forward.

Rachel:

It was in the stars.

Julie:

Yeah.

Julie:

All

Rachel:

But Yeah.

Rachel:

you wouldn't, you wouldn't ever, right.

Rachel:

And somewhere along the way, you make a great point about

Rachel:

picking stuff up along the way.

Rachel:

It's interesting.

Rachel:

The habits, the things that we hold on to, I think, that's

Rachel:

where a lot of times when we.

Rachel:

Other people burn out,, agency over us.

Rachel:

We say, you're burning us out.

Rachel:

You're burning us out.

Rachel:

And that can be true.

Rachel:

That's where the boundaries come in.

Rachel:

That's where the relationship building comes in.

Rachel:

And that's where the patience comes in.

Rachel:

That's where I say, listen, you, you hate these people.

Julie:

Yeah.

Rachel:

know, listen, this is your one great life.

Rachel:

I'm not telling you to tough it out.

Rachel:

You've already toughed out a ton.

Rachel:

Like you're not going to find me begging you because here's the thing.

Rachel:

We want people at work.

Rachel:

And that's what I tell leaders and organizations.

Rachel:

When I come into keynote, sometimes when I mentioned the

Rachel:

quitting thing, they're like, Ooh.

Rachel:

And I said, let me just, let me just show you some stuff.

Rachel:

You can have a 30% attrition, all, uh, all across your front lines.

Rachel:

You can have it all through your organization.

Rachel:

And if it's the people who were negative and didn't want to be here anyway,

Rachel:

you are going to be more profitable.

Rachel:

You're going to be more successful.

Rachel:

And you're actually going to go up.

Rachel:

I mean, you will not miss these people.

Rachel:

Right?

Rachel:

We all know these people, the people that you're like, how do you stay?

Rachel:

Like, I can't believe you're getting paid, like in work

Rachel:

constantly compensating for them.

Rachel:

And it'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.

Rachel:

But, at the end of the day, when you're burning out that idea of, you have a

Rachel:

choice, we all have a lot more choice and that is both the heaviest crown.

Rachel:

And it's also the most freeing set of just like fence Clippers ever.

Rachel:

And I think it's, how do you want to, will wield that power

Rachel:

when you're feeling burned out

Julie:

Well, I think that's a great way to end it.

Julie:

I don't want to end it because we, we should just do this again,

Rachel:

more time.

Julie:

yes, we it'll happen.

Julie:

It'll happen.

Julie:

I know you mentioned you have some templates for out.

Julie:

How can we, how can the listeners get their hands on that?

Rachel:

Yeah, absolutely.

Rachel:

Just had to Rachel sheeran.com forward slash O O O O stands for how to office.

Rachel:

So we just hearing.com.

Rachel:

Ford's lash out.

Rachel:

Oh, oh, I'm over on LinkedIn a lot.

Rachel:

You know, you can catch me with my very cute dog on Instagram too,

Julie:

I'll put links to all that in the show

Rachel:

can't wait.

Rachel:

And Julie, thanks.

Rachel:

so much for having me.

Rachel:

I love watching your show and your clips on LinkedIn.

Rachel:

So you're a grateful.

Julie:

Thanks.

Julie:

Oh, thanks.

Julie:

All right.

Julie:

I'll talk to you later.

Rachel:

Alright, bye.

Rachel:

Thanks, dilly.

Julie:

Here are my major takeaways from this conversation with Rachel.

Julie:

Why the hell have I not been using out of office replies as a way to

Julie:

manage my inbox and stay focused?

Julie:

While working on really important tasks.

Julie:

I know how much I can accomplish if I eliminate distractions.

Julie:

So why haven't I thought about scheduling days within the month?

Julie:

Where I focus my attention and energy on certain projects with

Julie:

out being distracted by email.

Julie:

Why have I only been using out of office replies for when I'm

Julie:

actively on vacation or traveling?

Julie:

By writing a thoughtful and useful, and maybe funny out of office reply

Julie:

when I'm working on major efforts for my business or my clients.

Julie:

I am acknowledging the email from my contacts.

Julie:

But also managing their expectations at the same time.

Julie:

Most people in this world just want to be listened to and to also have information.

Julie:

A thoughtful out of office response, does both of those things.

Julie:

It says, Hey, I got your email.

Julie:

But for these reasons I won't be able to respond right away.

Julie:

That is so much better than ignoring an email because you were too busy

Julie:

working on a project to get to it.

Julie:

Or being constantly distracted by your inbox notifications.

Julie:

This one is staying with me.

Julie:

And already looking at my calendar and deciding which days will be

Julie:

my non inbox days, which days will be my out of office days.

Julie:

You know, it, you know, you waste a tremendous amount of time in

Julie:

your inbox every single day.

Julie:

You just get sucked into shit all day long.

Julie:

Second thing I'm taking away from this conversation is.

Julie:

As we become more successful, we need to start checking our pals or

Julie:

our temperature along the way to say, is this what I really want?

Julie:

Is this making me happy?

Julie:

Is this aligning with the values I have?

Julie:

Or the values that I want.

Julie:

Am I successful, but does that success now mean that I don't get to spend as

Julie:

much time with my family or friends or take the time off that I need or

Julie:

invest in things that make me happy?

Julie:

Do you have time for things that are important to you that don't

Julie:

have anything to do with work?

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I go for one.

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Aha moment in every podcast for you.

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One nugget that you can pick up and put in your pocket and take with you

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and use over and over and over again.

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And I'm taking these two nuggets.

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These are the ones that are coming with me.

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Onto the cocktail the week and I am a sucker.

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For a cocktail with a fancy room.

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So this week we are making peppermint white Russians with candy cane rims.

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Here's what you're going to need.

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One candy cane, finally crushed and one tablespoon, Oak granulated sugar.

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One ounce of peppermint schnapps, one ounce of Kalua, one ounce of

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vodka and three ounces of milk.

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Or if you want to go like a real school, half and half.

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Combine the crushed candy canes and the granulated sugar in a small bowl and mix.

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Well.

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Rim the top of each glass with the candy cane sugar mixture

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and fill each glass with ice.

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Ben filler cocktail shaker with the peppermint shops,

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Gulu of vodka and ice shake.

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Well, until it's all combined and then poured into the prepared glass.

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And then you top it with however much milk or half and half.

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You want.

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Okay friends, that's it for this week.

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If you haven't had a chance to review the podcast on iTunes,

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please do take a moment to do so.

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Look.

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It really makes a difference and it helps others find the podcast as well.

Julie:

Until next week.

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