Think you've maxed out your paid advertising? Think again.

In this episode, Miranda Pettinger (365 Holdings/Cuddle Clones) shares how she scaled AppLovin from zero to $80,000/day in just 7 days during Black Friday—and why it's now their highest-spending channel, even surpassing Meta.

Miranda doesn't just share success metrics—she breaks down the exact strategy, creative approach, and measurement framework that made it possible. This is the blueprint for brands ready to diversify beyond Meta and Google.

If you're spending serious money on Meta and hitting scale ceilings, AppLovin might be your most underrated growth opportunity. Miranda proved it's possible to find incremental customers, better ROAS, and massive scale—all while simplifying your account structure.

—

Sponsored by OMG Commerce - go to (https://www.omgcommerce.com/contact) and request your FREE strategy session today!

—

Chapters:

(00:00) Introducing Miranda and Cuddle Clones

(07:54) The Journey from Zero to $80,000 a day.

(13:27) Targeting, Media Buying and Creative on AppLovin

(17:03) Understanding AppLovin

(19:38) Analyzing Customer Behavior and Incrementality

(22:59) Fermat: Optimize Shopper Experience with AI

(23:53) Limitations on AppLovin and Final Thoughts

(31:15) Crafting Compelling Ads

(37:24) Analyzing Successful Ad Elements

(42:17) Targeting and Audience Engagement

(46:27) Brand Recall and Interactions

(50:25) Utilizing AI for Ad Optimization

(53:35) Creative Diversity and Longevity

(58:41) Final Thoughts

(01:03:08) Save Money and Connect Your Marketing Channels with Channable

—

Connect With Brett:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thebrettcurry/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@omgcommerce
• Website: https://www.omgcommerce.com/
• Request a Free Strategy Session: https://www.omgcommerce.com/contact

Relevant Links:

• Connect with Miranda on X: https://x.com/mirandpettinger
• Cuddle Clones: https://cuddleclones.com
• AppLovin: https://www.applovin.com/
• Sponsor Offer | Fermat (Mention Ecommerce Evolution): fermatcommerce.com
• Sponsor Offer | Channable (Mention Ecommerce Evolution): https://channable.com/

Past guests on eCommerce Evolution include Ezra Firestone, Steve Chou, Drew Sanocki, Jacques Spitzer, Jeremy Horowitz, Ryan Moran, Sean Frank, Andrew Youderian, Ryan McKenzie, Joseph Wilkins, Cody Wittick, Miki Agrawal, Justin Brooke, Nish Samantray, Kurt Elster, John Parkes, Chris Mercer, Rabah Rahil, Bear Handlon, JC Hite, Frederick Vallaeys, Preston Rutherford, Anthony Mink, Bill D’Allessandro, Stephane Colleu, Jeff Oxford, Bryan Porter and more

It was blowing that out of the water.

It was crushing on every single

metric that a marketer looks at.

We saw revenue go up, we

saw our MER come down,

which are all like your north star

metrics of like, Hey, this is working.

This is going well.

Hey there. Thanks for tuning into

the E-Commerce Evolution podcast.

We're going to take just a minute and

tell you a little bit about my agency OMG

Commerce.

Now we work with some of your favorite

eight and nine figure D two C and

omnichannel brands.

And our specialty is profitable scale.

We love taking great brands and

amplifying their growth profitably.

We've helped a number of brands go from

zero on YouTube to spending as much as a

million dollars in 90 days

while hitting a CAC or

CPA target.

We've also helped multiple brands

launch on Amazon or just add

scale to Amazon.

We took Boom Beauty from zero to

almost $6 million in sales their

first 12 months on Amazon.

So if you're not satisfied with

your current level of growth,

if you're looking to diversify channels,

maybe you're a little too dependent

on meta and you want to add YouTube or

you're not pleased with

your Amazon growth,

then we need to chat.

So visit

us@omgcommerce.com, click

the Let's Talk button.

We'd love to schedule a complimentary

strategy session with you.

And with that back to the show.

Well hello and welcome to another edition

of the E-Commerce Evolution podcast.

I'm your host, Brett

Curry, CEO of OMG Commerce.

And I am so excited about today's topic.

This will be a first,

we've never talked about this

topic in the history of the

podcast. We're diving into AppLovin.

How should you be thinking

about AppLovin how to use it,

can you really scale on it? Will it

work for you? Is now the time to scale?

And we'll get into all the ins and outs.

And so my guest today is Miranda Pinger

and she's an OMG client

with Cuddle Clones,

gotten to know her and Ryan

and the team at Cuddle Clones,

super smart marketers, amazing products.

You'll hear about those in a minute.

And get this,

she scaled from zero to

$80,000 a day on app 11

last holiday,

and now it's a staple in their marketing

arsenal and going to scale this holiday

as well. She's going to tell you how

she did it and all the ins and outs.

And so with that, Miranda, welcome

to the show. Thanks for coming on.

And how's it going?

Yeah, thanks for having me.

We're almost in the heat of q4.

November is knocking on our door somehow.

Crazy.

It's already here. So yeah,

it's Black Friday time.

It's Black Friday time

for sure. And today,

who knows when people will

actually be watching this,

but today was a big day for you.

You were the keynote to a big

presentation with my buddy Taylor Holiday.

So tell us about what you did today

because like in presentation mode today.

Yeah, definitely. I've got

my presenter's hat on. Yeah,

we were talking about the success of

AppLovin and channel diversification,

which has been a main topic of this year

that I think a lot of people have been

talking about.

And it's been a key thing that I've

been trying to unlock for Cuddle clones.

We've added App 11 last year. We've

added YouTube and Snapchat this year.

So I think a more diversified

brand is a healthier brand.

So if you're on Amazon, if you're

on lots of different places,

I think you can reach customers in a much

healthier way versus if you're all in

on one channel,

you're going to have a really hard time

when that one channel is having a down

day or is struggling to grow.

Totally. There's more stability

with channel diversification.

Usually the channels can feed off

of each other at least a little bit.

There's not always a

ton of channel overlap.

We'll actually talk about that as

it pertains AppLovin. But yeah,

love working with you guys

and growing on YouTube.

I think get the perfect

product for YouTube as well,

but more on another episode

today is all AppLovin and

also what was that event and where can

people check out the replays or do you

know?

Yep, you can find it on the Operator's

podcast, you can find them on LinkedIn,

on X and on their website

and they'll have a recording.

So if you want to hear even more in depth

from people outside of my voice who've

really had success on the platform,

and that's kind of where

the place to find it.

Check it out. I love it. So

before we dive into AppLovin,

we're going to start with that zero to

$80,000 a day scale run that you had

last year, which is just phenomenal.

But for those that don't know,

what is Cuddle clones?

What do you offer and why do

pet lovers go crazy for your

products?

Yeah, cuddle Clones has a special

place in my heart. Say I have a horse,

so I'm all in on the animals. And then

I have always grown up with rescue dogs.

Amazing. And I have a rescue dog myself.

So love animals have always been

really drawn to 'em and they hold a

special place in my heart.

And I love the mutt mixes.

I have a Clie cattle dog mix. So.

Mutts are generally the best, right?

They, they're not pretentious, right? Yes,

they're generally loyal, they're often

cute, their own signature unique looks.

So I'm a mud fan as well.

So all in on animals. So that's why

working with Cuddle clones is so much fun.

And so Cuddle clones,

what it was founded on was creating

custom replic because of your pet.

So we have custom stuffed animals of your

dog or your cat or your horse or your

gerbil. And most often people do buy

them when they pass away. So I think too,

having a breed,

I can't just go out and buy a stuffed

animal that looks like my dog because he's

unique and everyone's dog is unique.

They don't all look the same.

So if you go to cuddle clones,

you can buy a stuffed animal

that looks exactly like your dog.

They're all handmade. There's only one

of a kind. There's only one of your dog,

there's only one cuddle clone of your dog.

And these are phenomenal. I just want

to underscore when you say custom,

and when you say replica of your pet,

it's crazy how much this looks like your

pet. My business partner Chris Brewer,

has a small dog named Bubbles who

he adores and Pauls is still living,

but you did a clone of bubbles

and I'm telling you what,

you look at a picture of real bubbles

and clone bubbles and you're like,

I'm not really sure. I'm not really

sure because they're not moving,

so I'm not really in the picture. I

don't know which is which. It's crazy.

Yeah, yeah.

They're very lifelike and our team

puts so much love and care into every

single one they create. And that's

clear when you get the product.

And I think that's unique when you buy

something that's a hundred percent custom

online, you might be a little

skeptical of like, Hey,

I don't know if this is going to

turn out. I don't get to preview it.

I'm putting in all my information in

photos and then getting a product.

It's really special

brand close to my heart.

And in addition to the stuffed animals,

we pretty much sell anything you'd like

to put your pet's face on as a gift.

We also sell on the site.

So our other bestseller that we had a

lot of success with on AppLovin and we're

testing on YouTube now is

your pet's face on pajamas.

So everyone loves getting

Christmas jammies,

so make it even more

special with your pet face.

PJ's for grownups, kids and for your pet.

So get some PJ's with your pet's face

on it and have your pet wear it and you

wear it too. It's a super

fun combo. And yeah,

love what you guys are doing

and love how you scaled.

You guys are really smart marketers,

like I mentioned. And so let's dive in.

So this year, YouTube is new, Snapchat

is new. Last year app 11 was new.

What led you to test app 11?

And then walk us through that

story of zero to $80,000 a day.

Because my guess is that was not

your target or your expectation.

I'm assuming that exceeded even some of

your wildest thoughts on scale there.

Yeah, definitely. I think onboarding

any new channel is a lot of work.

You have to get a pixel,

you need to figure out the

ins and out of an ad account,

you need to get your ads uploaded.

It's a lot of work regardless of.

Panel.

And so heading into Black Friday

last year we were a bit behind Target

and Meta was underperforming what

we had thought it was going to do,

and we were kind of like, this is not

looking great heading into Black Friday,

we should be a little

bit more up on revenue.

We were crushing all year

and then November was getting

harder as the CPMs were

rising on meta.

Was that the main issue you think? It

was just the competition in the auction.

CPMs rising on meta and that's what kind

of put a damper on what was otherwise a

great year up to that point.

And I think economic factors too, and

the users on Meta and Meta's algorithm,

I think other people were having similar

issues last Q4 with trying to scale

past what they had done previously on

Meta and previous years and months.

That's kind of where we

were at mentally last Q4.

So that's where Sean Frank from

Ridge was tweeting all about

AppLovin and dropped Kathy's email into

the Twitterverse. And.

Kathy's from AppLovin.

Yes. Yeah, Kathy's son,

she's awesome if you get to

see her give any presentations.

And so we emailed her and got

onboarded pretty quickly after that,

probably a couple days

we sent over our assets.

At the time the platform

was not self-serve,

so in order to get into the platform,

you had to be spending at least

$30,000 a day on meta, and

that was your proof that you

could get into the platform.

They just wanted to keep it small because

it wasn't so you couldn't just get in

there and work on it yourself yet.

Got it.

But they helped us with all of our

assets and getting things uploaded,

and then at the time there

was an onboarding credit,

so that was also an incentive

of, Hey, if this doesn't work,

we'll just not spend our own money.

So that was helpful too of, okay,

we're going to onboard with this

credit and if it doesn't work,

we'll just turn it off

and no harm, no foul.

Yep, totally makes sense.

I love the setup there.

Hey, we're not hitting our goals.

We're not hitting our targets.

And good entrepreneurs, good marketing

teams, you don't accept that,

right? You're like, no, we want to

hit our goal and exceed our goal.

And so what else do we have out

there? And also any smart marketer,

you're living on D two

C, Twitter or D two CX,

so kudos to you following smart people

like Sean Frank. And so you're like, Hey,

let's give this app 11 thing a try.

And so what did that look like?

So obviously you started Zero

because it was brand new.

How long did it take

to get to $80,000 a day

and what did that look like?

What was that experience like?

I'm assuming it was quite a ride.

Yes, and so the thing about Cuddle clones

is it does most of its revenue in q4,

so because it's a great gift, everyone

wants to buy it for the holidays.

So that's where we're a

bit unique compared to an

average G two C brand where we

have to work really,

really fast in a very short window

of time because we're also custom,

so we can't just Amazon prime

you a custom order in a few days.

So our shipping cutoffs

are much earlier. Yeah.

Totally. That makes sense. Yeah.

Because the earlier we have a shorter

window, so you have to act very,

very quickly in a short period of time

and make sure you're hitting all your

KPIs on a daily basis.

Every day does count when 30 days out

of the year you're going to do most of

your revenue.

Yeah, yeah.

Like every day is a few weeks

or some days are a month

to other times year. And

so it totally makes sense.

It's nice because you can dial

up the urgency for the buyer.

So that's real urgency,

not manufactured urgency,

but it means you can't

screw it up every day really

matters for driving those

new orders. So yeah.

Were you just glued to the app 11

dashboard increasing budgets and bids

constantly or what was that journey like?

Yeah, you actually couldn't

touch anything at the time. Okay.

You got it.

There was Nova fiddling

of my fingers. So yeah,

the team is the one at the time that

was managing all of our budgets.

So we had a Slack channel with them and

they would give recommendations to us,

but I genuinely couldn't touch the

platform. I couldn't adjust a budget,

I couldn't touch anything,

which sometimes as a marketer,

sometimes it's good to have

to ask someone else, Hey,

can you do this for me so that

you're not the one touching things.

So that's kind of how we started

with them. And obviously now,

but at the time you

couldn't touch anything.

So they onboarded with our whole

ad account, all of our videos,

and essentially we had a $10,000 credit,

and if I was the one doing that

with 10 grand, I'd been like, oh,

let's spend 300,

maybe 400 a day and then we'll go to a

In my head,

that's probably how I would spend

10 grand for the brand and they

spent it over the weekend,

so it was like boom,

the 10 grand was out the

door in a couple days.

Let's go man. And so how did that

first 10 K perform? Obviously? Well,

because you scaled up

dramatically after that, but yeah.

What kind of CPAs were you seeing

in comparison to other platforms?

What did that look like?

It was blowing that out of the water.

It was crushing on every single metric

that a marketer looks at click through

rate.

Validated by Triple whale. Right?

So you're using the pixel from App 11,

but you were really validating

through Triple Whale.

Yeah, yeah. So we had that third party

source that you could really trust.

We saw revenue go up, we

saw our MER come down,

which are all your North star metrics

of like, Hey, this is working,

this is going well.

It's working, it's.

Working. And so we were like, alright,

cool. Let's put our own money in this.

Now we spent through their

$10,000, we have proof of concept.

So at that point we were at.

A quick question here on the volume,

because I've got thoughts on this with

a few other platforms, YouTube namely.

But did they recommend condensing that

$10,000 spend into a

tight window because the

algorithm works better that way

and because they feel like you can

learn and grow when you spend that

much money in that tight of a window?

Or was it more about they knew what your

goals were and they knew that you had

this 30 days to kind of make hay and

so they were trying to hit that target?

Yeah, I think we both were

seeing such good results.

So early on it was kind of a no-brainer

of we just this thing day over day,

will it break, will it hold? And

that was kind of the crazy part of,

to sit there and say, okay,

well we spent five grand a day,

let's go to 10 grand and then see

the 10 grand keep holding steady

roas, keep nothing went down

that scaled crazy, alright,

let's do 30 grand today and

then alright, let's do 45,

let's do 50.

And then it got to the point where within

seven days I was telling them, okay,

let's spend $80,000 today on

Black Friday and let's just go.

Because again,

we have such a short window where most

marketers probably wouldn't go that hard

in it, but it's like I've

got three weeks here,

we got to make as much

revenue as possible.

Totally. But it made sense because

you've got the triple oil click data,

so you see click attributed

data from these campaigns,

you can see your global sales,

you can see your MER globally,

your in new customer, CPA type of thing.

And so you knew you were on

it was working and so why not?

That's fantastic.

So you basically gave them your

meta ad account and then they were

tweaking some of your top meta creatives

for that initial run or what were the

creatives like in that first run?

So we had some meta creatives, but

for our bestseller, the Pajamas,

we actually didn't have a ton of video.

Most of our winning ads

on meta were stills,

and that's what had always

worked on meta for us.

So we didn't invest into a lot of video

at the time because Meta didn't usually

deliver it or spend as much on it compared

to all the stills that we would make

of the product.

So we actually didn't have a ton of

video when we launched and we kind of

scraped some together of, okay,

well here's a good voiceover and here's

some good visuals that we have in the

drive. It was very much piecing

stuff together on the fly.

It wasn't a giant production timeframe.

It was working with my

creative strategist, Sydney

and us being like, okay,

this is what we think

could work on the platform.

Let's make a true ad because we know

someone's watching an ad and kind of see

what happens.

So we really didn't have a Meadow winning

video that was active in app love,

perfectly honest. Got.

It crazy.

So you pulled it all together for App

11 and I think it'd actually be useful.

I know there's been quite a bit of

chatter online and on D two C Twitter and

stuff about App 11, but for those

that don't know, what is App 11?

So what kind of ads are you running?

Where are these ads showing up?

What is App 11 for the uneducated?

Yeah,

so App Eleven's been around for quite

a while in the mobile app space.

So it's a platform that's

existed for a while,

but it's new to us e-comm folks because

it wasn't open to e-commerce before.

So they have all this

advertising data on mobile game

players and typically if you think about

if you've played mobile games on your

phone, you would get more

ads for mobile games.

And so if you're playing Candy Crush,

you're going to get an ad for Clash

Royale or you're going to get ad word

scapes, you're a different ad.

And they recently then rolled out

this e-comm platform Axon to where

now e-comm ad buyers can buy

inventory on a mobile game.

Yeah, it's amazing. So

these are all video ads.

They show up on mobile apps, mobile games,

they're nons skippable, so you

could exit out of the game,

but they're nons skippable, right?

So if I'm playing Candy Crush and not

the paid version or whatever and the ad

pops up, I can either close

or watch it basically.

And in most cases, you're

actually entering into an

agreement with the game of,

Hey, I want to earn extra coins,

I want another try at this round.

And so you're kind of entering in this

agreement with the platform of saying,

Hey, it's.

A gamification of watching the

ad to earn a little something.

Yeah, exactly. So you're entering into

this agreement with your game of saying,

Hey, I will give you my time.

I'm going to give you 30 seconds

of my time to watch this ad and

you're going to give something in my game.

I love it.

Love it. People go into it

knowing I'm watching an ad,

I have voluntarily given the

click to say, I will watch an ad.

People are expecting

to see an ad, they're.

Expecting to see it, there's

something in it for them.

So they're not resenting the ad maybe

like they do in other platforms.

And so that's maybe part of why some

of these ads are really accepted and

responded to. So super, super

interesting. Now the platform though,

so in the early days when you scale from

zero to a hundred or zero to 80 KA day

in less than seven days,

that was all managed by

the app 11 team now itself

serve.

What does that look like and how

important of a part of your marketing mix

is App 11 today and even when it's not

peak season?

Yeah, it's remained between 20 and 30%

of our media mix all throughout this

year.

And at this point I've spent a couple

million dollars on the platform and it's

continued to help our brand grow this

year. And because of the seasonality,

I'm really expecting it

more growth heading into Q4.

And as we sit today in October, it

is our largest spending channel.

It is currently surpassed meta by

a lot for the month of October.

Crazy in 2025. It's so crazy.

And we've never spent in the

month of October ever on app 11.

So this is all brand new data and

brand new customers for October.

That's amazing.

Let's talk a little bit about

who is the buyer here, because

the buzzword obviously in marketing over

the last year or two is incrementality,

meaning can we get net

new customers from this ad

endeavor that we wouldn't

have gotten otherwise?

Or are we just paying for another ad

that's going to be inserting itself along

the buyer journey for people

that we're going to buy anyway?

And what's really clear about App

11 is that these are net new buyers.

And from your experience,

it looks like there's not a lot of

crossover between typical AppLovin buyers

and meta buyers. Can you

talk a little bit about that?

Who are these buyers

coming from? App Love.

Yeah, so we actually

looking in Triple Whale,

we saw there was less than a 5% overlap

from our meta customers and our app

love, and that was at of

42,000 orders last Q4.

So it's a very large data set as well.

So out of 42,000 orders, less than

a 5% overlap with Meta's customers.

And we did find pretty often that the

app Levin customers were first click

buyers. They would click on the

ad, they would go on our website,

and they would check out that day

because you gave them 30 seconds of

information for them to read versus

you saw still on Pinterest or

Meta,

or you just saw a graphic

on a Gmail website where you

have to go learn more on the site.

So your time on site is going to be

longer and you may need to have more

questions answered versus if you

watch a 32nd commercial of the

product that tells you everything about

it, you're much more ready to buy.

Yeah, it totally makes sense. And your

product is pretty straightforward,

at least the pajamas are the cuddle clone.

Maybe this wasn't going to have a few

more questions and it's more expensive,

but do you think part of that where people

were clicking and buying one day was

because it was holiday or are

you seeing that now even when

you're not running during, I

guess now is almost peak holiday,

but when you're running in the off season,

is it still kind of that click

and buy day one from map 11?

Yeah, we do see that a lot.

We see probably one of the highest day

one ROAS out of all our channels on app

11 I think just because of the time that

the customer spends with you. I mean,

attention's the new currency.

So every app and every social media

channel is trying to just capture your

attention and that's what you're buying

with app Love is attention for a full 30

seconds.

Yeah, yeah,

it's crazy and attention

that someone has agreed ahead

of time to give you. And

so again, I think there's

less resistance and probably

less resentment as well,

which has got to work in the

advertiser's favor. I would think.

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So let's do this.

I want to spend quite a bit of time on

the creative side because as with any ad

channel, creative is the biggest lever.

Creative is what's really

going to move the needle,

that's where you're going to win or lose.

But let's talk about targeting

and media buying for a minute.

Longtime media buyer did TV back

in the day, of course now Google,

YouTube and Beyond and stuff.

And so I do like to tinker on occasion

and pick audiences and all these things.

Yeah, no, I know you, you guys

geek out about that as well,

but what is possible, what

is not possible on app 11?

Yeah, so there is no targeting,

there's no toys and rules

to tinker with, which.

Partially makes me very nervous,

but I obviously know Sean Frank really

well and several others and seeing your

success, I'm like, okay,

I get it that the algorithm's smart but

still makes me a little bit nervous.

Yeah, I think the most important part

is your ad creative doing the targeting,

which we've talked about. Everyone's

talked about with meta, leave it broad.

That's been a topic for the past five

years of don't put target demos on your

meta account, leave it broad,

let the ads do the targeting.

I think that's kind of the brave new

world that we're going to live in as

advertisers of making

really good creative that

an algorithm can pick up of

who to serve it to. I mean,

I think all the social platforms,

platforms have cracked that with organic

content and viral reels, viral tiktoks,

they knew who to show it

to based on a few times.

So the same thing's going

to happen with advertising.

Makes a lot of sense.

And so basically the levers you

have to pull mostly creative,

we'll talk about that in a minute,

but you've got your budget,

it's your daily budget, you've

got bid and that's pretty much it.

And how do the bids and budgets work?

Yeah, so you'll set either for e-comm,

you've got cost per purchase

or you've got a target roas.

So whatever works for your business,

you can try both. I've tested both.

I have success with both and

whatever works for your business.

And then you're going to set a goal.

So whether that's your target

goal is to hit a 300% ROAS or a

100%, whatever that is,

you're going to input your goal there

or your cost per purchase goal and the

algorithm's going.

To do you start with that goal. So

when you first launch with App 11,

do you recommend having a goal or you

recommend having a little more open where

they're just like, Hey, get me

as many conversions as you can.

I would recommend having a goal that's

closest to your business objectives.

The algorithm's pretty smart to know to

put you in the auctions that it thinks

it can win on. So that's what I've

discovered is putting the truest business

goal that you can into the auction and

that way it can go out and find your

ideal customer at a target

that makes sense for you.

The other options you have for targeting

are either day zero roas or day seven.

So if you want more data,

usually I would recommend using day seven

because it's going to just the system

more data. I use seven

day on meta as well.

So that's just kind of what I found

the most successful for our brand.

But you can do whatever fits

your business objectives,

but usually day seven is feeding

it the most data as possible.

Makes sense. And I think

just like any platform,

the more conversion data you feed it

feed the better the algorithm is going to

get. And if you have the seven day window,

you can rest with some confidence that

there's going to be a lot of day one or

day zero conversions. Those

will be captured obviously

in that seven day window.

So yeah, that totally makes sense.

And so then what kind of data

can you see from this then?

Are you seeing things like CPM and

CTR and CPCs and things like that?

Is it calculating those

and showing those to you,

or what does the reporting look like?

Yeah, you'll see the same

things you see in meta,

I think what makes it different or

again, your interactives, your end cards,

those are things separate from your video,

but you'll still see your click through

rates, your CPMs, what you're paying,

and then you can also still

see day zero, day seven,

day 28 row and platforms similar

to how you can measure in meta,

especially if you don't have a North

Beam or a triple whale to pull out those

attribution windows

longer than seven days.

Got it, got it. Makes sense.

And then are you actively

going in and pausing

creatives,

adding new creatives or mostly are you

letting the algorithm do its thing and

basically if there's a

creative that's not working,

it's going to take that to zero on

its own. What does that look like?

I think it all depends on the journey

you're on with app 11 and where you're at.

I think you should pause ads after

a certain period of time if they

aren't working for your business,

especially if you have a lot of them

in there. If you've only got 30 or so,

I would just let them all, leave

them all on, let them learn.

But we got to the point where we had a

couple hundred in each campaign and then

it got to the point where it was

like, okay, we have a lot of data,

we're feeding the system, let's

try and concentrate this more.

So at that point we did go in and turn

off ads that didn't perform over a 60 day

window. So we gave it a lot

of time to see if like, Hey,

is this going to be successful?

Then we did turn some ads off,

but I think you're perfectly safe to

leave them on for a long period of time,

especially as you're starting.

Cool, that's great.

And then are you doing

one consolidated campaign

per product line? So maybe you guys

did one for clones, one for PJ's,

or are you doing separate campaigns

maybe by avatar or customer persona?

What does that look like?

We have just one campaign

per product type.

So PJ's have their own campaign clones do.

That's how I run everything on Google

and Snapchat and Meta just to keep those

personas of that product in one place.

The conversion rate is the same and

the A OB is the same per product.

So I wouldn't recommend mixing products,

but I think keeping them in their

own campaigns, this is fine.

You can have a hundred ads on

one product and be healthy.

Got it, got it. And the algorithm

is going to decide, okay,

I know who going to like this ad and

who's watching, who's responding to it,

things like that.

And they won't spend on an ad

that's not successful either.

I think that's something important to

note that it's not going to pick up an ad

and spend a lot of money

on it at a bad ros,

which I think sometimes you'll see

happen in meta if it's not successful and

it's not hitting targets, it's not

going to spend very much on it,

so it's going to drop to the bottom.

So I would not worry about that happening

because I think people worry about the

meta of like, oh,

it picked up this ad and it's spending

crazy money and it's a 0.2 roas.

I don't dunno what Meta's doing with it.

That won't happen with Apple and I

have not seen that happen. And again,

that's with a couple hundred

creative we've tested,

I have never seen that happen.

Got it. Totally makes sense. Okay,

so let's get into the

creative side of things.

This is where the magic really

happens. So these are all video ads,

they're all vertical, correct? So

we're not running landscape ads,

these are all nine by 16 or four

by five or one by one, correct?

Or are they all nine by 16?

They all need to be nine

by 16. Yeah, no scores.

Got it. So all nine by 16.

Talk a little bit about

how long are these ads,

what are the requirements of the platform

and where are you finding the most

success? At what ad length

are you finding wins?

You can upload up to 60 seconds.

I would recommend doing at

least 30 at the low end.

You can upload shorter than that,

but we usually see a lot more

success having longer ads.

People go in there expecting

to watch a longer ad.

So I think if you only

showed them 15 or 16 seconds,

you're just not utilizing the platform

enough and the time that you have with

the customer.

And I think just to draw a

quick parallel to YouTube,

we spent millions a month on

YouTube and we see the same thing.

You can run fifteens and people like them

and maybe they get less frustrated or

something like that, but

usually people don't respond,

they don't click or they

don't convert. And so yeah,

I love that 30 to 60 seconds

and just test within that

window,

but you got a captive audience they've

agreed to watch and so tell them enough

to get them excited to

overcome objections,

to get them to click and to take

action. So that makes a ton of sense.

Now are you running polished ads?

Are these like UGC mashups?

Do these look like a meta

ad look more like a TV ad?

Talk about the style of ad.

Yeah, I would say it's kind of

right in the middle of those things.

So we've got millions of followers

on TikTok and on Instagram and

Facebook and those viral entertaining

videos that everyone's like, oh,

just plug it into meta,

it's going to work.

That actually doesn't work

great on the platform.

Someone's going in there

expecting to see an ad.

So I think you can still be entertaining

and you should still be entertaining as

a brand, but I don't think

you need to be super polished.

And I also don't think you should run

something that's pure entertainment driven

because someone's expecting to see an

ad and I think you're not utilizing your

time with the customer if you aren't

giving them information about the product

and following a story

arc about your product.

Yeah,

it's such good advice and I think you

could draw a few parallels to TV just more

from a call to action standpoint

or a structure this like an

ad versus an organic post that you just

want to go viral on TikTok or something

where if you look at, and

I come from the TV world,

if you run a TV ad that's

just entertaining or just fun,

people may watch it and

people may remember it,

but they're not going

to take action on it,

they're not going to make a purchase.

And so you need to structure that ad

where you are telling people where to

go, what to do, getting them hyped up

to buy, you got to ask for the sale,

things like that. And so totally

makes sense. Make this a commercial,

not just a fun viral video.

So what are some of the components then

if you look at your winning ads versus

ads that did not win,

what are some of the components or what

are some of the things that the winning

ads have in common?

Yeah,

the winning ads definitely flow

more like an advertisement than an

entertaining video that you

would see on social media.

So I think that's something to keep

in mind and I think the more you can

overcome objection ahead of time for the

customer when you are telling a story

to them is the most important. So

some of our winning videos have,

we sell long pajamas,

we sell short pajamas,

we sell pajamas for

your kids and your dogs.

So those questions are already

out of your head of, oh,

well can I get this for my kids?

So they have kids sizes already have

overcome that objection. Would highly

recommend taking all your meta comments

and questions and putting them in an ad

because we would get those all the time.

How can you overcome them before that?

They even have to go looking for it.

So I think that's a really important

thing to keep in mind when you're running

ads there. And also just give them

all of the features and benefits.

If you're selling a supplement, what

are the health benefits that you'll see?

What is the before and after state? What

is the problem you're trying to solve?

And then give them the solution

with your product. So I think.

That.

Can go very DR style and you are wanting

to get a response and a reaction from

these people.

So how can you tell your story in that

short window to where there's nothing

left they have to question except

putting their credit card in.

Totally makes sense. Yeah,

it's one of those things where

questions left unanswered

objections left unaddressed

will cost someone to not take

action,

they're not going to click and they're

not going to do what you want them to do.

And so yeah, what are the FAQs, what

are the top features and benefits,

address those and then ask for the clicks.

Are you guys kind of following one of

the YouTube formulas that we use as hook

product demo social proof,

which we weave some objection busting

in there and then call to action and

there's some different layers and

different things we do there as well,

but would that kind of be the

flow for AppLovin as well? Right.

We still want to think about even

though we get a captive audience,

we still want to think about the hook,

still need the product demo there still

need some objection busting and social

proof and they need a

clear call to action.

Any tweaks or nuances

you would share there?

No,

I would just say that the hook is

important but it is not going to make or

break.

I think about a YouTube ad if you don't

capture their attention in five seconds.

Your host, yeah.

Audio, but same thing with meta.

If you don't capture your attention in

0.2 seconds, you're scrolling. So I.

Think.

That's the point where you

don't have to do, I think meta,

you have to get a little crazy with your

hooks to get someone to stop scrolling

and yeah.

That thumb stop rate is huge for YouTube,

the skip rate is huge or

the view rate is huge,

but here is it maybe more that the

hook is about getting someone in

the right frame of mind and getting

them thinking about your product or

prepping them for selling

rather than thumb stop or view

rate.

Yeah, definitely.

And some of our winning ads

is our pajamas in a state that

kind of looks like a fireplace,

so you kind of get that

cozy energy from it and.

Totally you're.

Like, oh, this is cozy, this is warm,

this is the emotion

that comes with pajamas,

which is important. Same thing if

you're selling a problem solution.

If you're selling

something for performance,

what is the feeling you're going to

have with that product to start the ad?

I love that. Yeah. What emotion

do you need to evoke for this?

It's like love and adoration for

your pet and it's just good family

vibes and stuff like that.

As we lean into holiday,

the fireplace and stuff kind of

feels like Christmas morning.

It all just feels right.

So it's like getting someone

in the right frame of mind,

love that so little nuance on the hook,

you're prepping them to sell them,

you're not so much worried about

thumb stop rate or view rate.

So that's really cool.

What other elements in the ad itself,

and I want to talk about things like

in card and the DPAs and stuff that are

part of this. So I think a lot

of people don't dunno about,

so we'll talk about that in a minute,

but other elements of the video ad

itself that are critical to have.

It's really important to

have an offer in your video.

Obviously we know offers

are important in e-commerce,

give someone a reason to buy,

but I think we've even tested not having

offers and ads to see what's going to

change and usually the click-through

rate drops by at least 2% statistically.

Whoa. So when you say offer,

you're saying specifically

save this much, get this deal,

we've got this sale or

this promotion going on.

So you're talking about

that kind of offer.

Yes, for sure. So what's the offer?

And it's easy too to switch out if you

don't have an offer in the video and you

want to have it in an end

card or an interactive,

you could change those out every weekend

if you've got a different offer every

weekend.

So that's also a unique thing where you

don't have to go shoot a whole new video

or edit into Premiere and edit a video.

That's great. That's great. Okay, cool.

So let's actually talk about that.

So every video ad then has

an in card and an interactive

after it. So talk about what

are those and how do those work?

So you'll have images that you can upload

and then you'll also have interactives

and the system will feed through in

testing different things. So images,

you could take your top stills from

meta and reincorporate them as your end

card.

You can take product images

of no context at all,

just product image and you could also

just go very off or heavy on your end card

of like, Hey, black Friday sale

going on now save 50% bogo,

whatever that is.

You can also put into that image the

interactive end cards are different.

So those are more of, it says interactive,

so you can scroll on them.

Some of them are quizzes.

You could run a quiz and

someone can click on it.

So you're trying to get the

user engaged with the ad.

I'm sure if you've played a mobile game,

you've played one where it's like, hey,

drag this over here in the

ad so that you're touching it

and that makes you more

likely to engage with it.

So these are the same way with

e-comm where you can ask a quiz.

You can also make them scrollable so

there's somewhere you can input a bunch of

images and then the user can scroll

through them so they're actually touching

the ad and interacting with it.

So great.

And there's also something psychological

about if you are interacting with the

ad, clicking on things

or hovering over things,

you're more likely to

take action and purchase.

And so what I'm going to do,

I'm actually going to share

my screen and we will walk

through one of your ads.

I'm going to mute it.

I know this is only going to be most

valuable for people that are watching the

YouTube video,

but I'm going to have you give a

commentary here and I'll chime in as well,

Miranda as we go.

But this is one of your current winning

ads and you can see if you're watching

this, we got, what is this word?

Scape is the game that

someone is playing here and so

of course they're trying to level up or

whatever got this bonus gift and then

here's the ad,

and now we're seeing a closeup of the

pajamas with a cute furry dog on there and

then someone holding their pet.

There's that family room with

the family. Kind of taking a look here,

how did you select these? So these videos

that they're showing us rapid fire,

it's showing clips of different

styles of pajamas, pajamas on people,

pajamas that are folded and kind

of on the bed type of thing.

How did you select the

video clips for this?

Yeah, we wanted to have a variety and

I think when you have UGC content,

mixing it with a voiceover we have

is really effective of keeping

attention and then also showing

different use cases of the product.

So we don't just have a 20-year-old

influencer wearing pajamas. We have the.

Whole.

Family around the tree. We

have kids, we have the dogs.

There's a lot of content around the tree

in this ad at Christmas time to kind of

evoke that feeling of.

Totally.

Having Christmas pajamas.

Just giving family all that.

Yeah, so those are kind of the reasoning

behind having lots of different clips,

showing it on the bed really close up

so it's not just on a model. So okay,

when you open your package,

what is it going to look like?

I think too if you shop for apparel

and in person in a store, it's folded.

It's not on your bed, it's on a display

and you're touching it and feeling it.

You can't do that with e-commerce.

So it's like how can you evoke the

same feeling of going into a store,

picking up apparel, feeling it,

touching it and opening it visually

in an ad so that you can get that

same feeling that you would

get going to the mall?

Yeah,

it's so good and we run a lot of

mashups for a lot of different brands

from popcorn to accessories to skincare,

and we did this back

in the day with native,

we would always try to find a lot

of diversity with the UGC just like

you're talking about

because you want the person,

whoever you're trying to get to buy to

either see themselves in the ad or to

see the person they're buying

the gift for in the ad.

So you've got some clips

here that are just kids,

two kids sitting on the fireplace with

the stockings behind them or sitting on

the hearth or whatever.

You've got a couple of people that

are just slightly older by themselves.

You've got some people in their twenties,

you got some young families that include

mom and dad, everybody's wearing PJs.

So you've got some real diversity there

where someone's going to watch this

one.

It's fast paced so you're not tempted

to look around the room or check your

watch or something like

that you're watching,

but then you're also going to see

yourself or your loved one in this ad,

which is really, really important.

Yeah, definitely.

I think the most successful ads we've

had on AppLovin two include a lot of

different use cases too of

buy it for your grandkids,

buy it for your significant other,

buy it for your best friend trying

to evoke maybe if they don't

like it themselves,

but I know someone with a dog who I

need to get a gift for and then if we

mention it, that recall is there.

So I think that's important too.

If you are trying to not hit a

niche audience and you want to go

really broad, you have to

go broaden your ad too.

So if you just have a 20-year-old creator

talking about why she bought them for

herself,

you're going to find 20 year olds who

want to buy it for themselves and that's

great,

but if you want to get it out to everyone

and everyone who sees it to buy and

for that ad to grow in that pocket,

you have to go broader in your ad.

Same way that you would go broader in

your targeting if you were to touch all

the controls.

Totally. And there's a reason if you

watch direct response ads or even mini

infomercials where someone will give

all the use cases and you may be

tempted to say, well it's obvious it's

pajamas, you can buy it for anybody,

why do I have to list it? But sometimes

you seem to be really obvious,

people are not thinking deeply about

your product and so saying buy it

for your kid or for your grandkid or for

your niece or your nephew or whatever,

you kind just need to make the

right suggestions because people,

we can't assume that people will be

thinking about that on their own.

And you see an ad, you

may not like it yourself.

I mean there's a lot of things here. Yeah.

Totally.

Especially in the holidays, I'll

see an ad for something, I'm like,

I don't like that, but I'm like, oh,

but my husband might like that but.

I got to buy a gift for Exactly. But.

If you don't call it out,

I'm probably not going to subconsciously

think that unless someone was like,

Hey, buy this for your significant other.

Buy this for someone

else other than yourself,

especially if you are trying to target

people outside of what they would buy for

themselves.

Love it. How holidays love it.

So then as we're going here,

there's a shop now button at the bottom

that's always there and then you show

this 60% off deals. You talk about,

hey, the best ads have offers.

There was a hooray audio

that goes on with that.

So you've tested these ads

with and without the 60%

off or with other discounts

or whatever and this has been your winner.

Yeah,

definitely having an offer and

especially if you are a brand that

advertises in Q4 and you are

something that people gift to others,

I think the urgency of like, hey, this

is a deal you should get right now,

it's for the holidays, limited time

offer. Another thing we do a lot is like,

hey, you need to get it

in time for Christmas,

especially it being a custom product,

you don't have until prime day,

two day Amazon it to your

house on December 22nd

that you have to get these

ahead of time. So I think too,

if you have a product with longer lead

times leaning into that urgency of like,

Hey, you have to order this now because

otherwise you just don't have it for

Christmas, no matter if you want it or

not on this the 22nd of December, you.

So offer plus some urgency, bonus

points if it's points, points,

urgency, that just is totally

legit. It makes sense here.

So now we're looking

at cuddle clones logo,

white background shop now button at

the bottom. This is the end card.

Is that what we're looking at right now?

No, you're not quite at the end

card yet. This is just the video,

but we're trying to really put that

brand name in as you're watching the

ad. I think too,

if you think about if you're watching

a reel or if you're watching a TikTok,

you're going to see the brand name

as the title there or if you run a white

listing ad it'll be partnered with,

so the brand name's always on

an ad on a social platform.

Most cases you'll see the brand

name and the logo somewhere.

So we like to insert it into the

video somewhere or mention it verbally

so that even if you don't

make it to the end card,

you heard the brand name or you saw it

visually and our logo is actually purple,

but we added the red because

it's Christmas. Again.

Bringing.

Continuing to bring all of that

holiday recognition into it.

Totally makes sense.

And I know one of the things you mentioned

when we were prepping is that real

comments, there's a lot of people

that just clicked on bought,

but there's also really a common journey

where someone saw it on AppLovin and

then searched on Google.

So that's where you really have

to make the brand name clear.

You don't want them just to get the

idea and go search for something else.

You want them searching for

you afterwards on Google.

That is the second highest customer

journey is either AppLovin to purchase or

app AppLovin to Google to purchase. So.

Crazy.

Again, super important that brand recall.

And if you don't have the brand recall,

they're like, what was that thing?

Was it pajamas with my dog on it?

You better be targeting all of

those broad keywords as well.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So.

You didn't advertise to them and

then they went to your competitor.

Yeah, which happens a lot. Yeah,

you're just giving someone an idea and

helping out a competitor. Congrats.

So now this I believe is an Incar arrest.

You got low at top custom pet

face pajamas as the headline.

Then we got these are shorts, PJ's,

closeup of the cute dog's face,

actual picture of the dog there,

get some highlights of some

features and stuff there.

So this is the end card

that we're looking at.

So here's an interactive

end card. If you play it,

it's going to go through

different color variants.

Oh, nice.

Nice. So it's very

interactive animation style.

Again,

there's different variety where you can

scroll with your thumb across several

photos. You can ask

them a quiz at the end.

So there's different ways to interact

with them through that end card that I

think is very different than most

ads you'll see on any other platform.

Totally.

So we had the interaction where there's

different styles of PJs popping up

there. Now we've we're looking

at something that looks

more like a feed ad or a

collection of Google shopping

ads type of thing. A DPA,

this is a progression

or this is a separate,

this is a different in

card that you could test.

This is the DPA A at the very end. So

if you toggle this on in your settings,

this will always appear

on all of your ads.

So that's kind of where the

customer can interact with

your feed directly from Shopify.

So this is where you can then show

the products or show the customer what

products you have to offer.

Have you tested this

with and without price?

So right now we're

seeing sweatshirts, mugs,

all that has your pet's

face on at PJ's of course.

Have you tested that with

and without the price listed?

No, at this point we have not

tested with the price listed.

I'm not sure if that's an

option yet in their offerings.

I kind of like this, I actually

not showing the price here.

This is something we

test a lot on YouTube.

You can make your YouTube ad shoppable

and you can insert your feed into YouTube

ads.

And I've found that actually sometimes

that kills your conversion rate if you're

showing the price of something too

soon before they're really sold,

before they've interacted

with your product enough,

it can actually be a detriment.

And so I think it's kind of cool

that there is no price there.

So we'll keep playing this

here and then basically, okay,

then basically you're just showing the

progression then someone clicking through

to the website.

Yep.

Great, great. Love it. So talk about this,

I know now in every platform obviously

utilizes AI in some form or fashion,

but now you can upload lots of different

elements and then Apple Oven is going

to piece those together and test

those and find winning combinations.

What are the variables that the AI

is combining to try to build winning

ads for you?

So I think something important to

follow in their best practices.

So if you're making a creative set,

you can upload up to 10 videos,

up to 10 interactives and up to 10 images.

And then your DPA is always going to

be connected if you have turned on.

So that's.

All part of a creative set,

a that ad group type thing.

So those are newer, those didn't

exist earlier in the platform,

so that's a newer feature.

But what I found and what they suggest

is best practice is doing a couple videos

and then as many interactives as

possible, as many images as possible.

So best practice I found is do two to

three videos and in a set and then you do

10 interactives. 10 images.

And in their media library,

which is unique compared to meta,

you can see the performance

of that end card or image as

a standalone versus how

it performs with nice.

So if you have the same

end card in four campaigns,

you can measure just the

performance of the end card,

regardless of where it lives. Very.

Cool.

So that's something

that's important. And two,

testing your end cards in your images.

You can look at the performance.

So if you have say two that

have a lower click through rate,

pull those out and try

to test more and keep,

how high can you get your click

clickthrough rate and test through those.

I think that's the most important part

of someone deciding to click forward.

So can you show the offer? Can you

show the features in the end card?

We have one brand that

I've worked with of two,

can you show as many products

as possible on the end card?

So we're showing all

the colors of the PJ's.

Can you show all the variants that

you have so that someone's like, oh,

well I don't like pink,

but I really like blue.

If.

They see that you have for blue,

they're more likely to click or say you

have shoes and I don't want sandals,

but I saw that you have

sneakers. I like sneakers.

And then they'll click through.

So kind of just thinking through what

can you show them about your product

before they click to make them really

want to go through to the widest amount of

people.

Totally makes sense.

And then do you have a setup where

if someone clicks on the in card,

that's maybe taking them to a different

page versus if they're clicking in the

DPA that's going directly to that

specific product detail page?

Or what does that look like?

You'll just pick one landing page per

creative set. So if that's your PD DP,

but if someone does go to the DPA,

they can click on a product

that maybe was not in the ad.

So that's where your DPA is going

to be a little bit different.

So if someone sees all of our pajamas

that we offered where there are

our standard line, but we also have

sweatpants that is included in that dpa,

someone might click on the sweatpants

and then they're going to end up on the

sweatpants pdp. So that'll

be a little bit different.

But in the grand scheme of things,

most times when you do

have the DPA connected,

it has a much higher conversion

rate than if you did not.

Very cool. So let's talk about how many

creatives do you need to get started,

and then I want to talk a little

bit about creative fatigue,

and then I want to talk about creative

diversity in a second as well.

But how many creatives do

you need to get started?

You just need one really. I mean,

you can add more. I'd suggest more,

but I mean,

Q4 last year we spent a million dollars

and we probably had less than 30

creatives in the platform. So.

Great.

I really don't think you need hundreds.

I think you need probably five great

ads and then continue to test and make

more and see what works for you and

your brand on the platform. But no,

you don't need a lot to get started.

Cool.

And then in terms of longevity or creative

fatigue or these wearing out after a

week or two,

are these more YouTube and TV where maybe

you've got a winner that can run for

months or a year plus? What

does the fatigue look like?

Much more like YouTube.

We have a winning ad that's been

That's always at the top.

I love it. Yeah, it's.

A great ad. So yeah, if you have got

a really good winner like YouTube,

you can run it for a very long time and

it'll continue to reach new people and

continue to perform, continue to test.

Don't just get one winner in there.

Totally and.

Done with it,

but you definitely don't need to continue

refreshing them every single week

with 30 new ones. I feel like Andromeda

and Metas starting to gear towards,

so definitely not as high as a fatigue

as meta. Definitely more like YouTube.

Love that. And then let's talk a

little bit about creative diversity.

And I know that's kind of the name of

the game as everybody's talking about

Andromedan meta and things. It's like,

I wouldn't say iteration is dead,

but this idea of subtle

variations where it's like we have

15 or 30 or a hundred versions

of basically the same ad,

but just with slightly different hooks

and so different endings and things like

that. I know now on Meta Meta's

going to treat those all one ad.

And so now it's saying take bigger swings,

make the creatives quite

different On YouTube,

we're still finding some wins if

it's kind of the same core video,

but very different hooks

that can work really well.

And so we're still iterating.

We're kind of trying to do both

iterate and take big swings.

But what are you finding in app Loven?

As far as creative diversity goes?

We've definitely tested different things.

We found more success with

iterations at this point.

We have a couple core winners. We've

sliced and diced 'em different ways.

We've made some short,

we've made some long,

we've called out different

things than others.

And then also doing the same of big

swings as something that's totally,

totally different. Maybe using

a different creative agency,

using a different influencer.

So that's where I think

you should do both,

and I think you should

do it at a quality level.

I would not just make

creative for creative's sake,

that's all different and you

spent five minutes on it,

you should really be thinking about

these ads and your customer and making a

good informational ad,

not entertainment and not something

that was thrown together really quickly.

And with poor intent,

you should think really deeply on it of

what you want to make and what you want

to portray. It doesn't have

to be high production though.

I mean all that content you saw is UGC.

We've spent millions on the platform.

We have a very small in-house

creative team, scrappy team,

so you don't need to be a

multimillion dollar brand with a

videographer and a camera

to have success here.

Yeah, I love that. And then the logo

looks really professional. The end card,

the DPA that's got all those product

images look really great and look

professional. But yeah,

the video looks like UGC,

but that makes it look authentic and

trustworthy and fun and doesn't make it

feel like just a standard ad. So yeah,

I think that makes a lot of sense.

What we're doing on the YouTube side is

something similar where we're looking

at, hey,

what are our winning hooks and measured

by view rate and what do they have in

common and what do the

losers have in common?

And then the ads that have

the best click-through rate,

what do they have in common and what are

we doing in terms of the product demo

and what are we doing

in terms of the offer?

And then what is the highest conversion

rate? And we're just kind of looking at

the similarities and over time we're able

to iterate and able to say like, Hey,

we saw for this baseball ad,

it was like this product line just didn't

really work. Or for this skincare ad,

it was the founder on

camera saying these things.

It just worked consistently

over and over again.

And so then you're able to take lessons,

take that next iteration

and maybe take a big swing,

but take a big swing

that's informed by data.

I know I probably want to mention these

things and maybe I'll just take a big

swing in terms of saying

it in a different way.

Yeah, definitely.

So yeah.

I think you can have a good

mix of quality content,

but it can be UGC and it definitely

doesn't need to be a TV commercial.

So I think that's where it's very similar

to YouTube in those ways where you

want to seem authentic,

but you also want to portray a story

to the customer at the same time. Yeah.

Yeah, portray the story.

You got to hit all the points of

overcoming objections and strong call to

action, all those things which are

really, really important. Great.

Any other mentions or callouts

as far as creative goes?

Anything we didn't talk about that's

important from a creative standpoint?

No, I think we touched on

everything. I would just say

to think about the way that these

customers interact with the platform.

When you're adding creative, you can

100% add your meta creatives in here.

And depending on how the style of them

is, they may perform really, really well.

But if they're purely entertainment,

you're probably not going to have a

lot of success right out of the gate.

And you should probably

make some creatives that are

closer to a YouTube ad or a

commercial compared to something

that's just either eye catching hook

or an entertaining video.

Yeah, I love that.

Maybe one last thing here before we wrap

up and talk about how people can learn

more about you and also buy

some amazing pet centered gifts

for the holidays.

Talking again about lack of

overlap between App 11 and social.

I think you had mentioned that there's

a true classic tease case study where

meta was mainly selling to women

buying for their significant other

app love and was more men buying

for themselves or maybe have that.

Yeah. But yeah, was it

the inverse of that?

Yeah, so I think you can reach new

audiences, especially on app love,

and I think everyone also talks about

the older demos are always really

successful. You can

find those on app love.

You can also find 20 year

olds who like to play scape.

So I think regardless of your

brand, you should give it a shot.

And I think there is a wide variety

of demos on here that you can reach,

just like Meta.

Makes a ton of sense. I

think the time is right.

You need to diversify if you've got

video content and can pull together

something that will fit for app 11. It

just makes a ton of sense. So first off,

Miranda, if someone is like, all right,

I got to check out these cuddle clones

and see what these are all about and I

need to check out the PJs, how

can they learn more about you?

Go to cuddle clones.com.

You have to order before December 10th

if you really will. These at Christmas.

Now.

Click now. Yeah, make sure you

go get them well ahead of time.

They can all be made to order for you.

And I would venture to say, and I've

got several pet lovers in my house,

this will be their favorite

gift. You get this for somebody,

it's going to be the gift they talk

about and share with other people,

and you'll get to see them wear it for

years to come. And then what about you,

Miranda?

So I know you are active on X

and you're speaking at operators

events and things like that. How can

someone connect with you or follow you?

Yeah, follow me on X on

Twitter, Miranda Tinger.

Just look me up. I'm sure I

can tag it at the bottom here.

I'll send it over to you, Brett. That'd

be great. Just an advertising nerd.

And I like communicating with

everyone online. I live in Ohio.

There's not many media

buyers in Ohio over here,

so it's nice to connect with other

marketers that work in DC because I don't

quite live in an area

where that's a hotbed.

Totally. That's same. I'm in Missourian,

so it's like most of my friends

who are e-commerce nerds

or media nerds are on the coast

or somewhere else. So yeah,

love that connection. Awesome.

Any other asks, requests,

anything else coming up that you

want to mention to the audience?

No, but I hope everyone has a good

Black Friday. It's going to be a wild,

wild west I think this year.

And if you can diversify and

have success like we did,

I ended up packing PJ's in the warehouse.

I'll ask you for after everything I

sold, so I'd love to do that again.

It's like, congrats Miranda, you made

app love and work as a thank you.

You get to go pack orders in the

warehouse. Oh yeah, that's fun.

I can think of the way worse things

to do for sure. So love that. And hey,

if channel diversification is on

your Christmas list or beyond,

actually probably based on

when you're going to hear this,

reach out to us at OMG Commerce.

We'd love to talk to you about opening

up opportunities on YouTube or on Amazon

or Meta or things like that. And so

would love to chat there. Miranda,

thank you so much for the

time. This has been phenomenal.

I'm all hyped and pumped up

to go run some AppLovin ads.

Sounds good. Hope everyone else is too.

Awesome. Thank you. And thank

you for tuning in as always.

We'd love to hear from you. If you

found this episode to be helpful,

share it with someone else that you

think might enjoy it. And with that,

until next time, thank you for listening.

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