Feeling stuck in your career or wondering what’s next? In this episode, Sarah Crews sits down with Julie Bauke, Chief Career Happiness Officer and career strategist, to talk about how to navigate career transitions with clarity and confidence.

Julie shares her powerful Value-Power-Impact (VPI) framework, tips for rediscovering your purpose, and how to shift from burnout to fulfillment. Whether you are in the beauty industry, re-entering the workforce, or just need a fresh start, this conversation will leave you inspired and equipped to move into your next chapter.

Plus, don’t miss the Cut It or Keep It segment as they weigh in on Gen Z workplace values, remote work, and more.

Connect with Julie Bauke:

• LinkedIn
• Instagram & TikTok: @JulieOnTheJob
• The Bauke Group – Sign up for Career Happiness Tips

Recommended Reading:

• Julie Bauke’s Book: Stop Peeing on Your Shoes: Avoiding the Seven Mistakes That Screw Up Your Job Search
• The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks
• The Genius Zone by Gay Hendricks

 Subscribe, review & share if this episode resonated with you!

Welcome to the lessons from your hairstylist podcast where we uncover and leverage your unique beauty and personal style. I'm your host, Sarah Cruz, a beauty industry educator and hairstylist with 30 years experience. This show is dedicated to providing you with insights and practical advice for living a happier, healthier and more fulfilled life. Experience that special stylist client bond right here as we dive into conversations with experts in beauty and wellness.

Here you'll gain valuable tips on personal style and self care to empower your journey. Join me to unlock the secrets to living beautifully well while elevating your lifestyle, mind, body and spirit. Your appointment is now, so have a seat and get ready for transformation.

Well, hello and welcome to the Lessons from Your Hairstylist podcast. I'm your host and hairstylist friend, Sarah Cruz. And I'm so excited today. I get to bring on a good friend of mine, Julie Bocke. She is of the Bocke Group. She is, has been a lifetime entrepreneur. She's a career strategist, but her title is actually the Chief Career Happiness Officer in her business. Julie believes that we all deserve careers that serve our lives.

I know I have a lot of you guys out there who are salon professionals or beauty professionals, but I also have really good friends who have been clients of mine over the years and we're all in different places in our lives. Most of us women, I would say, it can be sort of a funny place at different times of our lives when it comes to maybe our identity and what we feel that is our purpose or our mission in our lives. And sometimes we relate that to our careers. And it's kind of like,

Where do I go now? And you can kind of get to a place where you feel a little stuck about that. So this podcast episode is meant to help us feel good about where we are and gain some direction or some tools on creating our own path going forward to where we might want to go in the future. It's really about just kind of getting some peace for our soul when we're looking to be at the next thing, but maybe we don't know what that is. Maybe we're trying to craft our vision. And Julie is the

perfect person to help us to do that. She has got 25 years of experience working with executives, professional athletes, and career-focused people of all industries and professions. She brings practical inspiration on how we can best live our lives and live in our careers from start to finish.

Her firm is focused on career development and engagement strategies. Julie is a sought after national media expert. She's got some credentials. I'm just so excited she's on here because like for her to take the time out is just amazing with everything that she's done. She's a workshop facilitator, a keynote speaker. She's been featured by more than 100 prominent media outlets, including CNBC, Money Mag TV segments with the Scripps News Network and Sinclair Broadcasting.

appearing on their TV stations nationwide. I mean, she's a powerhouse. Okay. She is a regular contributor on top radio stations in New York, Chicago, Dallas, San Francisco, San Diego, Los Angeles, and Miami. She is the author of Stop peeing on your shoes, avoiding the seven mistakes that screw up your job search.

and she's the creator of Career Catalyst, an intentional career management experience. Julie. I'm just hearing all that. Girl, I'm tired. my goodness. Thank you again so much for coming on. I know that was a long intro, but like you've got a long list of credentials. As the chief career happiness officer in your business, just explain to us, what does that mean?

16

years of my career was in human resources. And so I worked with all kinds of, you know, in different size organizations in human resources. And what always struck me was how many people really didn't like their jobs, but they didn't know what to do about it. Instead, they would just stay. And frankly, a lot of times make everyone around them miserable. And so in HR, you would get people coming in complaining about things. It was just

You know, you think, wow, you know, I would think to myself, why are you still here? If it's that bad, why are you still here? And so I finally realized that people are afraid, they lack confidence, and they are in a place where they don't like where they are, but they're not sure what to do next. And so they stay stuck.

Then I worked for nine years in working with people who'd just lost their jobs. Like they'd been told on Friday, don't come back on Monday. And it was, was the same things I thought, fear, lack of confidence, don't know what I do next, et cetera. So when I got the opportunity to work with people who'd lost their jobs, in other words, had been laid off or let go, it was startling to me how many of them said, yeah, I wasn't very happy anyway. And so was like, wow. So what is it, which then sent me on this journey? What is it that people should be doing? What is the alternative to staying stuck?

we

all need a framework for how, you know, what do we do? How do we not get stuck? How do we have joy in our lives and in our work and career? So tell us about your solutions to some of that.

So here's a framework I want you think about. We live our lives in chapters, for sure. You had a chapter before you had a child, you had a chapter before you started your own business, you had a, you know, as your child graduated and moved on to live on his own, that's a different chapter. So we, especially as women, we think about, well, there was this chapter, this chapter, this chapter, this chapter. And we know that each chapter requires something different from us, and it feels different. Let's take that same thought to our career. We live.

and should live our careers and chapters as well. So if you think about it, this idea that we live our lives in chapters, but our career needs to just be one 40 plus year slog and doing the same thing, it's crazy, really. Because you're a different person at 25 than you are at 35, 45, 55, 65. So why shouldn't you move into a new chapter? When you take that as your perspective, it takes a lot of the pressure off of thinking.

There's that one right answer out there for me. And once I find it, I can just sit back and everything will be great. It's not true. And I've been around the black long enough that I remember in the nineties when all the layoffs before the nineties, these massive layoffs didn't happen. And then all of sudden they start happening. And so a lot of people that get laid off, they go find another job and they think, whew, that's it, I'm done. Don't not going to happen again. Then they'd get laid off again. And then maybe again.

And so it's taken us a long time to recognize this concept of employer loyalty never was. And your company wants you until the day they don't. And you need to act accordingly. And you need to say to yourself, okay, I'm going to stay in this job, in this career. I'm going to keep doing it this way until it no longer serves me. And at that point, I'm going to pivot. going to, could do a 180. I could do just a slight pivot. I'm going to do something else.

that lets my career serve my life versus the other way around, which is the old way of thinking, is it's all everything rotates around my career.

Exactly, and I understand about living your life in chapters and that's...

That really resonated so well because I think we do that not only with our careers, but also in our relationships and really everything else that we do in our lives. And so maybe it is somebody who's been in the workforce. Maybe they're an entrepreneur. A lot of my listeners will be beauty professionals, those who are trying to figure it out for themselves. They have really a world of possibility, but they don't have that framework like what you were just explaining. It's like, what do I even do? I'm very overwhelmed.

And what even sets me apart from somebody else? You might have someone who hasn't been in the workforce for a long time. They feel like they're out of the loop. How could I even break in? How am I ever going to have my own identity again after raising these kids for so long? Or you have someone who's been in it for 10, 15 years and they're not really any further or at that goal where they envision themselves when they started their careers.

So there's all these different moving parts within, I think, like the entrepreneurial space and then those who are starting to maybe look at running a business for themselves or getting back into something that they had started years ago. So how would you, if you were coaching somebody, help somebody to find out what it is that truly sets them apart and makes them unique? And how could they possibly like leverage that to?

make the next move or plan for the next move in their career.

Let's

take an example. Let's say you've got a woman who she needed to take a period of time off and let's just say she had 10 years work experience. Let's just call it work experience, in which she did all these great things. Then she took five years off to raise, she had twins and all of sudden she's like, and then the kids go first grade. That's six years later. The mistake, one of the mistakes women make is they believe that after that six year period, they're back to square one and they forget to give themselves credit

not only for the 10 years where they already had some accomplishments, but also the things that they did a part of that time raising the kids. So you aren't starting at ground zero. What you're doing is you're saying, had 10 years where I did these things, accomplished these things. I pivoted so I could be there for my kids. Maybe I did some volunteer work. I did some project management. I did some stuff. Now you are coming back, not starting at zero and trying to go back to 60.

You have 16 years experience that you need to get your mind and arms around and understand where that has brought you. It's so self-defeating to say, who would hire me? I bet the last six years being a mom. Say, no, no, no, no, no. You are the collection of your experiences. And we all know moms get stuff done. And so part of this is getting your mind around your story.

so that when it's time to reenter the workforce, however, or whenever you decide to do that, you're doing it from a place of power and confidence. You know, instead of like, well, I know I've been on for the last six years, who wants to hire me? And I just hear women do that all the time. I'm like, wait a minute, didn't you just spend 10 years as an innovation engineer at Procter & Gamble?

Yeah, so if I'm, here's what I'm hearing. This is all, like you said, between your ears, right? This is the way they are. much about it. It's the way you think about it. maybe you don't know what makes you unique, but if you go back and you look at that whole collection.

of everything that you've done, instead of saying to yourself, I'm so out of the loop. I don't, I don't know what the latest is. I can't compete. I can't keep up. It's like, no, no, no. You said moms get stuff done. know, moms get stuff done. I have all this other experience. And I find that it's those collections of all those unique characteristics that you bring together that makes you and also tells your story of who you are.

really, I think is the answer to the, to the question right there, just to take it a little bit further to, to really kind of drill down on the how to, to craft that pitch of what is my secret sauce or what is it that I have to bring to the table that nobody else can claim. Is there an exact step-by-step or a framework that you teach?

Yeah,

you have to understand and be able to articulate your value right now before anybody else understands it. I'll give you an example that just blew me away. This happened last May. I was speaking actually at a Procter & Gamble Women's event. There are 450 sharp women in the room. Like, in P &G, they can hire the best and they do. And these were 450 women who are responsible, partly, for coming up with their new products. Okay? So these are smart women.

And so I was doing this thing about, you know, if you got stuck in the elevator with your CEO and he said to you, well, Sarah, what do you do here? In other words, why do we keep you around? Could you answer that? In other words, what is your value in this organization? And they all got really big eyes and were like, no. I said, let's think about that for a minute. I said, you are highly educated, undoubtedly for some of the top universities in the world. You work for one of the world's most admired companies.

doing extremely important work. You can't articulate your value. And for me, that was this aha that I haven't stopped thinking about it. Because if those women can't stake their value and are afraid to articulate it, what hope does everybody else have? A woman coming out of a bad marriage or a really crappy job or trying to make a move mid, you know, it's so we're all, I think it's a universally female thing that we aren't comfortable with our values. So I've been.

If you're something I've been working on recently, I call it VPI, your value, your power, and your impact. When you understand, first of all, I say, what do you value in yourself? And then, what do others value in you? Those two have to go hand in hand because I could say what I value in myself is either the most beautiful singing voice and everybody who's ever heard me sing goes, no, you don't, no, you don't, then you're off track.

There's this connection between what do I value in myself and what do others value in me as well. And that's almost confirmation of your value. So what's your value? What value do you bring to any situation you're in? It could be home, community, work among your friend group. You could say, what I value in myself, and this has been confirmed by my closest friend group, is that I'm able to listen without judgment. I'm able to help people see things maybe they hadn't thought of before.

When you start to understand what your value is, and that's a simple example, it could be at work. When you understand what your value is, from your value comes your power.

Understanding your value first. think you're exactly right. I think we're afraid to say what it is that sets us apart and we don't seem to put a lot of value or society doesn't seem to put a lot of value on the fact that you spent 10 years bringing up two humans shaping two humans lives and keeping all the balls rolling and you have an education and all of your characteristics have been and the things that you have used

within your own portfolio of your individual self in order to make all of that happen, your own unique talents and abilities. Somebody has told you somewhere down the line that that is an extraordinary value that you have. And if you can identify that and also as you said, your value is where you...

recognize it, but then somebody else also recognizes it. That's a very core value and also a really integral piece, I think, of your framework of what makes you an individual, what does make you valuable.

You know, it's what others value in us. There's usually, if you're pretty self-aware, there's good overlap between what you value in yourself and what other people value in you. But there are times when, if you're really feeling like, well, I understand this whole value stuff, but I don't offer anything of value, I would challenge you to ask people around you what they value in you, your closest friends, and listen to what they say. Because sometimes it'll be like, yeah, yeah, and then other times it's like, really? So when you understand, if you start with the premise that we all have value, that means you have value.

But I could easily say my value is not in project management or detail management. And there's not a person in my world who would argue with that. So there's a consistency there, right? But where there are things that I don't bring value to, if there are things I don't bring value to, then there have to be things I do bring value to. So getting really clear on what those are. And in that same speaking engagement, we did table exercises where I say, tell everybody at your table one thing you're good at. One thing.

And I was like, I'll go first. I'm a really good parallel parker. I'm like, I have no depth perception or spatial perception, but I can parallel park for some reason. And I said, let's just start with that. And they were so hesitant to even claim anything. And that's why I had them do it in small groups so they could kind of share with each other. When you start to understand and you're able to put words around and you don't feel uncomfortable saying that, it takes practice because it just takes practice because we've all been socialized.

and raise in a certain way. And then you say, and this matters, the things I value about myself and others value about me matters because of this. This is where your power is. And from your power, you can make the impact you want to make in the world. And so how do you want to use your power? How do you want to use it? Because I think it's a way to get more of what you want in the world and to help and to be more of a force in your world in the way you want to be.

From there, then springs you toward that next chapter that says, given that and a few other things, this is gonna help me decide what I want next versus what so many people do is they'll do the, don't know what I should do, what do you think I should do? That's not my job. It's hard, it's inside out and that's hard because a of times we aren't really very self-reflective.

you are breaking this down and making this process so clear because that is a common challenge. You can't get where you're going. If you don't have a vision and you don't know where your destination is, then you're never gonna get there. And so people say, you say, well, what do you want?

Well, I don't really know. I don't really know what I want. And it's like, well, if you don't know what you want, I certainly can't tell you what you want. Exactly. And so you're breaking it down to this value, power, and impact. So we have the value piece first. You've got the value of, first of all, I know what my value is now because I can identify it. Somebody else is confirming it. Other people are confirming it. So that's confirmation. Now that I have the confirmation,

How exactly do you overcome what society has conditioned us, especially as women, to believe that we don't want to state our value now? We don't want to claim it because we don't feel powerful enough. How do you bridge that from the value to the power piece?

Great question. The analogy I always use with people when we're trying to help them figure out their next career move, I said, do you use Google Maps? Yes. Okay. So if you get in the car and you're trying to get someplace, have Google Maps can't get you there. You might stumble onto it, but Google Maps can't get you there unless you put a destination in mind. And this is where one of the places where people kind of falter because when somebody says, don't know what I want next, I always say, you know more than you think you do. So.

Let's break it down. Okay. What do you want next? And so like one of the common things I'll hear is I don't know what I want to do, but I know it's not this. said, well, then that's a start. Right? So I, so one of my things I'll say, all right, think about where you are right now, where you've been, where you're sitting today in this moment. What do you want more of? What do you want less of? And what do you never want again? Start there. Start there. What do you want more of? Less of? Never again. And you can literally, Sarah, take a piece of

Again, I love that.

Paper and put columns in. you just say you've got three columns on a piece of paper, more of less of never again. I would challenge you to not only think about the current career situation you're in, but everything in your past. Like you know, yeah, I know from my first job at blah, blah, blah that I don't want this. Okay, that might've been 10 years ago, but that's okay. If you still feel that way, that might be a less of never again. The first thing you always have to do is analyze where am I right now? What do I know to be true?

Because it feels like, when you're in that space of what I don't want do, think of like a funnel. So you feel like you're at the top, like, I don't know what I want to do. I could drive an ice cream truck or I could do brain surgery. I'm not sure. So the idea is you don't have to get down here at the very tip of the funnel immediately. What you do is have to start moving toward it. So if you say, but then also let's say you say, you know what, I believe I am great and I've been told I'm great.

at handling really challenging customers. The most difficult customers and clients, they come to me. And, but I don't want to do that anymore. It's okay. You can be good at something and not want to do it anymore.

That's a huge revelation. think a lot of us think that because we're good at something, that's what we should be doing. And there's a lot of things we're good at. But sometimes you just don't need to be doing that thing. Maybe that's...

And maybe it's that you've done it for a long time and you're burnt out. Maybe you used to like it. I even have to work on this with myself. It's like, yeah, sure, could do that. Do I want to?

common

that people they stay in something too long and I'm guilty of this as well. I've stayed in something too long because I'm like, but I'm really good at it. That's what, but do I want to be doing that? Because then that comes back to if you're the chief happiness officer, like we're talking about happiness here. So this is where, you know, this is kind of like the self awareness piece where you've got to look inside and say, is this really the mission that I'm on still? What is my purpose? Your purpose I think can change over time.

Now that you've identified your values, okay, well, or your value, maybe you are good at certain things. What would you say if you found something that you're good at, everybody confirms it? And this is going on with me right now. People want me to do hair tutorials and I don't want to do hair tutorials, but I could do hair tutorials. And so it's kind of like people are like, you should do this, you should do this, but you don't want to do that. You want to do something else. What happens then? How do you get from the value to the power to making the impact?

So that's, okay, so let's just take that one. Let's just take you here, okay? People are telling you, you should do hair tutorials. And you're saying, well, based on what I know about doing hair tutorials, I don't wanna do that. What I would do if I were you is dig under why people think you'd be so good at that. What skills and traits are they seeing in you that makes them say you should do hair tutorials? So it really can be a nice way to confirm how people see you, but then you get to decide what you do with that value people see in you.

Well, Sarah, the reason I say that, and people are limited by their own knowledge. they might think that, so they see how, they see maybe that you're really articulate, that you're creative, that you're constantly trying new things, that people follow you. And so to them, that equals do hair tutorials. What else could that equal? What else could you do with those skill sets that people see in you?

that maybe you hadn't thought of. Everything people tell us about ourselves are clues. And I had a friend tell me, I have to go through this exercise with myself a lot, just because it's a constant, this never stops. And I was like, for the sake of you, you're a very loyal friend. And I'm like, huh, that's not a word, that's okay. And then I started thinking about it. And I'm like, well, for my really good friends, if they came to me and said they murdered someone, my response would probably be, well, who was it? Did they have it coming? So maybe, you know.

You know, so it's, it's people see things in us that we don't see sometimes. And so there's that, those blind spots we have, and those are important to listen to, to gather more information about yourself, but you don't have to act on their conclusion about you.

a good one. You don't have to act on their conclusion. And the things that people tell you, you take those clues, but you could get creative with where you would want to go with that. And that's kind of the power piece, I would think, a little bit too, because now you are crafting your own path. You're crafting your...

own vision and your own purpose. And that I think there's a lot of power in being the person to take what we know is valuable about ourselves, that is able to be used as a tool that we know we can do, and then take it to where it is that we want to go. How do you explore a little bit more? What's that creative process like then when you're taking the clues, you're understanding your value.

Now you're starting to feel your power like, okay, well, I'm in control of this whole thing. How do you get from that to then starting to mix that all together in a recipe that's gonna work out for the end result that you're looking for?

So there's a few things. So I also have this career happiness formula that I'll share, okay? Because I think it brings together what I think we've been talking about. So if you ever go to the doctor and say to him or her, I hurt, the first thing they're gonna say to you is, where? What hurts? So if you find yourself in a situation where you're unhappy, or you're like, you know what, I'm starting to get that feeling like it's time for a change. And that can come internally.

meaning I'm bored or I don't enjoy this anymore. It also could have begun externally. Let's say you have a new, let's say you're working in a salon and that you have a new owner. Somebody buys the salon, you rent a chair from the salon owner. You're like, yeah, I don't think this person and I are gonna get along. So it could be an external movement that caused you to say this doesn't fit for me anymore. So what I say, there's a four-legged stool with the career happiness formula that when you are feeling unhappy, the first thing you have to do

is figure out what's not working, what the source of your unhappiness is. So there are four sources of unhappiness. The first is, here's my definition of career happiness, and I tell people you use this also as a diagnostic tool to figure out where you're stuck. And so then that helps inform the activity you take afterwards. Okay, the first is liking what you do, liking the work on your desk. If you're fortunate, you love it. Leg number one is I like what I do. The second leg is I'm good at it.

You can like to do something and not be good at it. It's very hard to build a career out of that. And the other one we already hit on is you can be good at it but not like it, and that's generally the result of burnout. Okay? So that's two. Now, the third leg is you have to be able to get paid for it. In other words, there needs to be demand for it. So if you like to make little crochet gremlins and you make the best crocheted gremlins in the world, but nobody wants to buy your crocheted gremlins, it's a hobby, and that's great. I'm not saying don't crochet gremlins.

What I'm saying is, is it realistic that you could turn it into a career? Okay. So, and the two parts of that, that third leg are, there demand for it? And can you make the amount of money you need to make? I mean, I could be the best typewriter repair person in town, but I'm not going to make a living out of it. So can I make a living out of it? If the answer's no, it's cool. Fine. Okay. So that's the third. Do what you like, what you're good at, what you can get paid for. Number four is in a place and a way you can be successful.

This gets to culture, leadership, work style. The number one reason people leave organizations and opportunities is because they don't like their leader. Number one, your leader has the biggest impact on your career satisfaction, period. Doesn't matter if the company makes awesome products and has a great mission statement. Your leader is the one who has the most impact on your day to day. That's why people leave organizations. So stool four is the big one. It really gets to culture.

What's it like to work there? I might think our company rocks. We have the greatest. I'm in a job, I'm paid well, I'm in a job I love and I'm a superstar at it. But if I don't believe in the mission of my organization, if I don't like my leader, if I can't work in a way that I feel I can be my best, I will quit. When I go through this formula with people and I say, want you to think about the worst job you've ever had. And I'm gonna go through the career happiness formula.

You tell me which one of these was the reason, the number one reason why you didn't like it. And I go through all four of them. It's always number four, leadership culture, that kind of thing, work style, et cetera. That is, so it's, when you hear all this talk about retention and engagement, talent management, company culture, that is the secret saw. That's what makes you love it or hate it. And that's what leaders continually miss is what do how do you feel on Sunday night when you're going back to work on Monday?

So if you're your own leader, entering the workforce, who are working for yourself, maybe you're a freelance hair and makeup artist. I'm coming from the world of beauty. I'm coming from the world of who my clients are and these conversations that we have. You might know what you're good at. Maybe there is some demand for it. How do you find the culture?

So if you've been in the world for any time at all, you have more knowledge about yourself than you think you do. I would look at it and say, in what situations do I thrive? Where have I been the most successful? What kind of coworkers do I like to work with? How much flexibility and freedom do I have? So let's say you've got a chair and there's a new owner that comes in and he or she says, yeah, you I like to run a really tight ship. So I expect your first appointment to be at 8 a.m. And you're like, no.

That's not gonna work for me. I have to get the kids on the bus at 8.30. Well, sorry, that's the way we're gonna do it here. Okay, so now you know something about yourself. You need a flexible environment. So when you start thinking about your must haves, your more ofs, your non-negotiables, then you have a starting point. So if your non-negotiable is, I can't take my first appointment until nine, and this person says, sorry, my way or the highway, then you know you need to get on the highway. And your first, and your first,

test as you go explore other opportunities is how much flexibility do I have? When the kids are in junior high or high school, maybe you could have your first appointment at eight. And so what you have to do is look at what are the requirements, what are the non-negotiables and hard requirements in your life right now and know that they will change. Let's say I'm in the chapter where I've got twins in kindergarten, let's say. What does that require of me?

Well, maybe because of my spouses or my partner's job, maybe I cannot leave the house until 8.45 and I have to be home by three. A hard and fast condition, but it will not be a condition forever. So the question when you think about chapters is what do I need right now? You need to be okay with having preferences. It's okay for you to have boundaries. It's okay for you to have things that are must haves. So there's the must haves and there's the nice to haves.

Gee, it'd be really nice if I could be off by three, but I understand I can do a workaround and stay till 3.30, which will allow me to have one more appointment.

So people want you to tell them how they should do it and so that it's just simple and clean. But you're saying things always change with us. So in essence, you're really teaching somebody how to fish rather than giving them the fish. Teaching them how by giving them this framework, which I think is brilliant because if you always feel equipped.

Yeah.

to be able to create your own path because you know how to do that and you have the skills to do that from someone like you who can teach a framework like this, then you're always empowered. You're always in control. That's security. And I think when we feel secure and we feel like we're in control and we feel like we're getting somewhere and we can make a difference, that's huge. And I understand like why you're like the chief happiness officer because that's really a gift.

that you can give to somebody. And I want to just kind of like recap all of this, this information that you've given us because just to kind of like put it into as need of a little package as I possibly can, you're saying no matter where you are, if you can get your head around what your value is, know how to determine what your value is, you have the power to create the roadmap to getting where it is that you want to go. And where do you want to go? Well, you're saying, well,

Maybe I don't know exactly where I wanna go, but I know what I don't want. I know where I never wanna be again. And you know, what do I want more of? Maybe you don't need to know like everything about your future, like every single thing, but you just need to know, okay, what do I want more of? Maybe that sets you on the path. Starting to get some direction where you feel like you're kind of in control. And this is where you're saying this sort of this funnel kind of comes together.

Get yourself a four dollar notebook. Yeah. And just, you know, yeah, and just start writing your ideas down.

Yeah, you're saying when you know what you're good at when you know what and you're liking what you're doing and you figured out Hey, there's some demand for this over here. You got to figure those pieces out, too That's when those things will start to and inform your direction So now you're giving yourself the direction so those all of those puzzle pieces are just like Working and they're different for everybody and just like you said but the different chapters

then you're able to kind of roll with that going back and using that same framework again to refocus and to kind of like rework your plan. And I love that because you're just really giving somebody a gift of being in control and knowing how they need to go forward. And they don't need to rely on you to tell them what they want or they don't want or what they should or they shouldn't do. And I think that's amazing. And you know, I think mentorship is huge. You you could be a great mentor, but you know, like you said, you can't tell somebody

exactly what to do, what's exactly right for them. But it is an important piece. How you talk about that, how could somebody, if they don't have somebody that helps to lead them, I know you're talking about leadership is so important. And if you don't have somebody you can kind of look to and you don't feel happy with, you know, whatever leadership is going on in your life or in your career, how can you find somebody? How can you seek somebody out?

You know, it's funny you mention that. In essence, don't ask one person to be your everything. The most powerful way to get guidance is to have a team around you. Because I've had someone come to me before and say, can you be my mentor? And my first thought was, you know, kind of, I was like, what is that going to involve? Like, what do you want? Like, you know, is that like, right? Yeah. So I think when you ask somebody to mentor you, you want to be really specific. What do you want from them?

and make sure it's something that's doable. And one of the things that's like, I also, what I wanna tandem this with is the value of intergenerational relationships and friendships. Huge. My marketing social media person is 27. She is amazing. And sometimes she has to kick my butt. But why are you saying that? No, don't do that. You sound like a boomer, stop that.

You if we're gonna, you can't sound like that on TikTok. And she will say, you know, Julie, yes, you can do this. And so it's what I think what that has taught me is, and then at first I was like, my God, I could be her, almost her grandmother, and she's kicking my butt. So what? So what?

I love being in the salon setting where half of my coworkers were born after my son, where my assistants are all 20 years old. I love working in an environment where there's younger people and then also people who are older than I am. I love that multi-generational atmosphere because you're right, every generation has something to offer. And I think it helps keep you relevant when you're with people who are younger.

Yeah,

and there's something to be learned and younger people need to figure this out too that there's an awful lot of wisdom out there in older people that unfortunately they haven't yet learned a value and I think having people around you who've been through all different kinds of life experiences it just It just it just keeps you young keeps you relevant And so what figure out when you figure out what you need to close the gap between where you are and where you want to be

then finding the right mentors is what can fill in that gap. If you don't know where you're going, it's unfair to somebody to say, because people do this to me. I don't know what to do in my career. Can you help me? I'm like, that is such a big question that it's not a fair question to ask of me.

It's a little lazy that you're not taking enough responsibility to do your part in this mentorship partnership. If you are going to ask me, and I'm happy to help anyone and I have mentors that are younger than me now, know, mentors that are older than me and I mentor younger and I've mentored older. And you're right. There's a mentor for each part of your development.

And I think if you are going to ask someone to take the time, then you need to show up in a way that shows that you're gonna honor that. And I think that so many times people are looking for a mentor, but they're looking for someone to do the heavy lifting. And you can't get there without doing the heavy lifting. You can have somebody to encourage you and who can equip you with the tools so that you can do that.

but you do have to do part of that work yourself. And I love that you said when you look for a mentor, you need to be specific. Because I love to help people. I know you do too, but I'm not just out here trying to spend like tons of time fiddling around in the dark with, you know, me trying to get out like, do you want from me? Like you gotta make it kind of worth my investment in you.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah, absolutely. And so once you understand where you're trying to go, it's easier to identify those mentors, be specific. This is hard work. You know, it's hard work. All this stuff we've talked about today is hard work, but so is being stuck in a job or career that is sapping your soul, ruining your relationships, your friendships, and your health. So pick your hard. You know, we're talking about being lazy. wrote, when I left, when I started my own thing, I wrote a book.

called My Book Stop Peeing on Your Shoes, is really about how to get a job. It really is. I said, I'm taking everything I've learned about how to get a job, and so the right way. And it's not just applying online. No, that's the worst way, in fact. It's become the worst way. So I would still get people, yeah, I'm looking for a job. Would you meet with me? Would you network with me? Would you talk with me? And I'd say, I'll tell you what, I'm going to send you a free PDF of my book. Under Nate Bages, there's cartoons. There's stories.

It's a super easy read. It's just like talking to me. I said, you know, so you read it, I'm sending you free. You read it and then get back in touch with me I'll be happy to talk to you. I'm going to say 20 % of people actually did that. mm-mm. I just, so I was, I'm like, I can't, no one has, no one has the one key to the kingdom. This is hard work, but if you won't help yourself, I can't help you.

Exactly. You know, a lot of us out there are doing that. times it can get really hard. You can get bogged down in it. You can get very overwhelmed and lose faith. What do you say to someone who's been just grinding away for a long time and they really have not seen any result?

Yeah, you know, and I think it's a great opportunity to step back and take some of the frameworks and say, where am I missing here? Am I being clear? So I talked to this guy one time, he's like, networking doesn't work. Working, in my opinion, is the only way to find a great job. Networking doesn't work. I said, okay, well, I've networked with 120 people, I still don't have a job. And I said, oh, well, what are you looking to do? He couldn't answer the question. Like, well, first networking doesn't work if you don't know what you're doing. If you don't know what you wanna do.

So when you have clarity on the goal and maybe your goal at this moment is just going to be, I'm going to network with two people a month. Just start there. Pick something that feels doable. You can start to build the momentum and just take a notebook. What trends am I seeing? Find an accountability partner who maybe is in the same situation. Do this together. If you're unhappy at work, you can either get together and whine about it.

or you can get together, follow a process, inspire each other and help each other get there. Stop peeing on your shoes directs you. It'll really kind of tell you what you're doing wrong.

Well, and sometimes you need someone to tell you just to steer you. You know, it's not like you don't want to do the work, but you need somebody to steer you. So I love your book, Stop Peeing on Your Shoes. That is just such a great illustration of like what we can all do and the self-sabotaging.

We all do to ourselves at times. now it's time for my new favorite part of each episode, which is a new segment called cut it or keep it. So this is actually based on the situation for hairstylists in the salon who decide every day whether or not they should cut the hair or keep it. Is it worth saving or is it something we should get rid of? And I wanted to bring Julie back on today because we had already recorded our episode, but then I had introduced this and I

wanted her to be able to weigh in on these because I love our episode so much and the information that she's sharing with us. So Julie, this is a take two and I know you've got a little hair story about cut it or keep it.

I had to laugh when you told me the segment was called cut it or keep it. It's funny the older you get the more history you have of like pictures of you at various points in your life and all these pictures keep coming up with me with short hair. And I keep saying every time I'm like who are the people who told me I could wear short hair? But the thing is I didn't learn the lesson so I kept doing it and I look like an alpaca with short hair. I mean it was a bad idea every time I did it.

And so when it when every time I see a new picture like pop up like a Facebook memory or someone send me something like And so cut it or keep it. I love it. So applause to you for coming up with such a clever title that has said

Thank you. It also

helps me keep the episodes on track. I noticed in my first few episodes that like the rambling was, it was really serious. So I do think it helps keep us on track and keep things a little bit interesting. So I love Cut It or Keep It and I'm excited to have you weigh in on some of the topics. So the first one I have for you is Cut It or Keep It Gen Z Workplace Values.

You had to just jump right in. You know what? We don't have the option to cut it because every day more Gen Z takes up more of our workforce. so cut it or keep it. think we have to integrate it because that is the workforce of the future. And it's not going to look like we boomers or Gen Xers want it to look. It's going to be like they want it to look because they're quickly moving into the place where they're going to be calling the shots. I think we have to take what's

good about it. This old model of work for 40 years, you can have two weeks of year off, that's when you can have your fun, but no fun otherwise. And then you can have fun when you retire is old thinking, it's harmful thinking. And Gen Z looks at that and says, I'm cutting that. I'm not wanting that. So we can't afford to cut it. So we have to figure out what are the pieces of it we want to keep and that we can bring into our workplace and what are the

the pieces we need to train them on or hold them to.

I I love Gen Z. One of the things that I love about them is that for the most part, they're not afraid of work, but they want a roadmap and they want to know what are the benchmarks? Where am I going? And a lot of us didn't have the ability, the courage, the leverage to ask those questions. So you're right. It was like,

work for 40 years and hopefully you get somewhere. Hopefully you have some stability and some security, but you don't have a lot of freedom in it and you're, you just don't have as much control. I love that that part is changing. I know there's some challenging things, but I love what you said about how we have to integrate it.

And a lot of Gen Z that I talk to, they will go to their leaders and ask for help in career growth. And they are continuously shut down. I just got off the phone with a young person an hour ago, and he's doing all the work on his end to continue his growth. And his leader is looking at him like, what do you want from me? my gosh, dude, that's your job. So we have to be more collaborative with them. have to help them grow. There are many of them who very

earnest and want this sort of mentorship and guidance. And if you grew up in a time when it was just the whole attitude was do your job and good things will happen, that's of course partially true. I mean, you can't not do good things and expect good things to happen. That's not the whole story.

Yeah, absolutely. I feel like they're more purpose driven to lifestyle driven. They know how they want to live and they want to know how they're going to be able to get there and they don't want to waste their time. I think they have a lot of wisdom. There are some things that are challenging, but I just love that you're talking about integrating them, mentoring them and everybody working together. So you're saying keep it.

Keep it. it and let it grow. it nurture it.

Perfect. The next one we're gonna go with is remote working.

Yeah, I am absolutely convinced when people say things like hybrid work or flexible work is over. No, no, it's not I think that's where we're going to land but I do think where we're going to land is leaders are going to have to

lead and they're going to have to be willing to have hard conversations. Let's say you have a physical therapy practice. I'm sorry, but your physical therapist cannot work remotes. Right? Or haircut people who cut hair, right? So let's go forward with the physical therapy office. Maybe your folks have some paperwork they have to do every week. You could give them flexibility to do that from home, but maybe you have somebody else. Maybe you have somebody who's a technology, your technology person for a series of physical therapy practices.

can work remotely. And so you can't operate under a one size fits all anymore. Your best talent knows they have the most opportunities and they're going to go find a place where they're going to have flexibility. I saw a study that said something like 75 % of women said that they would look for a new job if their ability to be flexible went away. You're talking about losing a good portion of the workforce. Again, Gen Z is getting older. They're going to take on leadership roles.

Women are continuing to take on leadership roles and those are the groups that are most insistent on not having a 100 % RTO workplace. So flexible work, hybrid work, absolutely keep it.

Well, I agree.

And after COVID, people really started to reevaluate what was important to them.

You can't put that back in the jar. You just can't.

There is also a real onus on the individual to make sure that you're doing a darn good job. You know, that you're being productive, that you're not being a slacker, because if you are, you're only hurting yourself. Not only are you going to lose those privileges, but you're going to develop a reputation and a mental state that's not going to be good for growing your career. If you hire the right people, set clear expectations, and then hold them to that.

It's about the right people. Okay, so keep it, obviously. Keeping remote working. Here's another one. Work-life balance. We hear that all the time.

So yeah, it's such a tricky phrase because everybody's work is different. I think about integration, work-life integration instead of balance because work is a part of your life. I call it managing your plate. So if you've got a dinner plate, let's call work your entrée. Sometimes you have more space on your plate for the entrée. Sometimes you just want the side. Sometimes you want a little bit of entrée, but think in terms of career chapters that what's on your plate is going to change based on where you are in life and you have

to you can't be 100 % on in all parts of your life at all times. And so there are times when, let's say the kids leave the nest, you've got time to put more work on your plate, should you choose. And so it's about managing your plate. Your career should serve your life. Your life should not serve your career. There are people who they wrap everything, their identity is so wrapped up in their career that they wrap everything around.

that their career and they make all their decisions based on their career. And I think that is wildly misplaced because your company will do without you if they can, believe me, of course they will. They only want you until they don't. So why are you giving them a hundred percent of your time and attention when they would let you go in a heartbeat if they could? I mean, you just gotta know that, you're doing it special.

.

Yeah. Let's just be honest. mean, you hear all this stuff about, wish I would have spent more time with my kids. I wish I would have done more of this and that. I wish I wouldn't have spent so much more time at work. Don't wait until you're at the end of your life. You have to decide what's important to you. What do you want your life to be? And then you have to make career decisions around that.

love what you're saying about the plate and how at certain times, certain things are important. It's almost like seasons where you're more into the work, seasons where you're more focused on family, seasons where you're more focused on self. And it doesn't all have to balance and be equal amounts all the time. It has to serve your life, which I love what you said about

Yeah.

Your work should serve your life, not your life serve your work. I think if you just have that as an overarching theme for the way that you approach your career, that right there is gold.

Yeah. What kind of, you know, asking yourself really big questions. What do I want people to say about me at the end of my life? What kind of mother or father do I want my kids to say I was? We put so much.

pressure on ourselves and my kids are now 30 and 32 and my neighbor, I mean I was not a great cook. I hated it. once for dinner. So you know had a moment last month where I was talking about something my 30 year old and his wife and I were talking about something and we're talking Mexican food. Talking about enchiladas and I said I said enchilada I said yeah I've never made enchiladas. My son looked at me he goes oh my god you made enchiladas all the time. I said I did. Then I was like oh I kind of did I did but it was some super

simple recipe that I ripped out of a magazine and I felt guilty that it was so simple. He's like, they were so good. I'm like, really? And he said to me, goes, mom, you made this, you made that. And he said, you're just remembering this very differently than we do. And so I have a friend who used to make homemade sauce, homemade spaghetti sauce. Finally her kids liked it and goes, can we just do prego?

That's amazing.

It's so good though.

Yeah!

perspective on what is the right thing to do for kids is so much different from what they themselves feel is.

Yeah, we just put so because so and so brings homemade treats to the kindergarten birthday parties, the homemade cupcakes. All they're going to do is lick the frosting off anyway. Right? But you it's almost like you have we put so much pressure on ourselves, especially women who live up to what influencers or magazines or TV shows are telling us we ought to be. And all our kids care about is are we there for them and do we love them and do we make time for them?

Exactly.

And I think if we approach everything like that, like what's really important is every decision we're making leading us closer to what the result is that we want. Or is that just something that we're putting on ourselves unnecessarily comparing ourselves to what we think is the right thing? So I love that. We're going to cut. So you're saying we're going to cut the work life balance concept.

Instead, we're going to replace it with work-life integration.

that.

Love that. All right. Next is the use of AI tools like chat, GPT, and your

Gotta be used in the right way. I just have a couple apps on my phone, of course, chat GPT, perplexity and Pi. And Pi almost acts as like a friend or a therapist. It's so interesting. I use it because I was trying to think of a way to, I was trying to think of an alternate way to explain something. So I use it to help jumpstart my thinking. But then you've got to put your own special sauce on it. What we're seeing, Sarah, is we are seeing people overuse it in the job world.

recruiters and companies are telling you they can tell. When AI writes your resume, AI writes your cover note, thank you note, because everybody's is looking the same. yeah, and so when we get lazy, we try to outsource everything we do to, because we don't want to do it, you really are hurting yourself more than you're hurting anyone else. So I think of it as an assist, as a tool. So I always say download perplexity or chat GPT, just start playing with it.

What's another name for blah blah blah? know, or how might I do this? And then use that as a springboard so it jumpstarts. That's how I use it.

Yeah, and I think that that's the smart way to use it. And I think it can be a wonderful tool, but you're right. It could be tempting to lean on it too much. And we got to watch having our voice not be the main theme of that. And I use it myself in the same ways that you do. I wanted to get that again. You said it was perplexity and also pie.

Yeah, P.I. Pie. It's so interesting. I just put in, just for fun, I was like, I'm feeling down today. Really? Why? You know, is it this? Is it this? Here's some things you might do. Now how are you feeling now? I mean, it was just, I just tried to, it was fascinating. think we're, we will, like everything, we will probably use it. People say, you know, you're gonna use that for dates and boyfriends and girlfriends someday. And I'm like,

Yeah. Yeah, it's like a therapist.

Yeah, we can't imagine right now, I guess, but yes.

I don't

know. Yeah, yeah, there's all kinds of stuff going on we can't imagine, but it is so powerful.

Yeah, I agree. I agree.

Placing jobs. It's absolutely placing jobs. So be careful. Yeah. So.

So keep it. Keep it. With the grain.

Yeah, we don't have any choice. Yeah, there's no choice. I gotta be careful with it. So we're gonna keep it with cotton. Yes, the next one. And the last this concept of demanding your worth. There's a especially in the beauty industry. I think especially after COVID we went through

with caution.

A phase where a lot of beauty industry professionals started to get a little bit brazen, especially on social media, where they realized that there was this real desire for people to get back into the salon, to start treating themselves. They'd been away for so long. And as hairstylists and as beauty industry professionals, it's a physical job. We get burnt out. deal with

know, cancellations with no, you know, backup, our income is affected by the clients. And so there became this thing where we started to demand and charge our worth without the perceived value really being there on the customer's end. So there were a lot more roadblocks put in place even before the booking. There were a lot more hoops for customers to jump through. There was a lot more of statements made, policies.

put up on social media, it seemed like there was almost this attitude of, if you want to work with me, it's going to be this and that's it. And I'm not sure how much the rest of the workforce had that same experience with people who are either seeking jobs or already in a career or changing careers. we had this whole

whole thing of like charge your worth, but it backfired for us a little bit because people were kind of like, well, all right, then I don't really, you know, I'm not, I'm not doing that. Now we've had to, you know, backpedal a little bit. So charge, charge or demand your worth in the workforce. That phrase, is that a cut it or keep it for you.

Here's the thing with worth. Worth and value are tied together. Like I decide what you're worth based on what I'm willing to pay. Yes. And so you have to make sure that when you think about your target customer, your ideal customer, what are they willing to pay? Because if they decide that your value to them is not what you want to charge for it, then they will go elsewhere. But you know what? You may decide in some cases that's okay. Because if they, if they're walking away

from you because you've raised your prices 20%, but you know that every place else they go is also charging at least 20 % more, that's great information. But it's tempting sometimes to take advantage of a moment in time to right all the past wrongs that you believe that have been going on. It's never going to work. And so my person, I've been with her since she walked out of beauty school. And I will say to her, look, I pay almost double.

in Phoenix when I'm in Arizona as I do when I'm with you. But because of where her salon is and because of her customers, she knows there's only a certain amount she can raise. And she's gotten to the point now where she has a full book of people she loves and that would be really loyal to her. So I look at that and say, if she raised her rates, I don't think she could raise her rates high enough for me to leave. Now, if she wanted to get rid of me, she could. But you know what I mean? Like, you can't just say without any outside input, I'm worth double.

what I'm charging. Okay, but that's not a decision you can make just between your ears. So yes, I say keep, keep charging what you're worth, but let's challenge what that word worth means and how do you figure out what you're worth. You're worth what somebody's willing to pay you, right?

That's it if the market supports it right and if your valid the perceived value is there I agree What about people who are not in the beauty industry who are out looking for a job and what I mean same concept I guess

sure is you

have to know what is the industry paying for what you do. What is the market you're in if you're in Nashville versus if you're in Los Angeles, that's a different market. You're in Dubuque, Iowa. So you've got to know what is the market rate for my skills. And you learn that on salary.com. You learn that by looking at jobs in your area. You learn it by connecting with other people who do what you do. You have to understand what the market thinks you're worth. you want to

run a very small nonprofit, you're not going to make a million dollars a year. So it's, there's that, there's, you've got to, there has to be that, that congruency between what your skills are, what your current skills are and how much, and frankly, what the demand is for your skills. So as an example, sometimes I'll talk to IT people and let's say they've been in the world, they've been working for 30 years. I'll say, they'll say, well, I have 30 years experience. And I'll say, really? How much of that experience is still relevant today? Today? Well, I just don't think Fortran and Co.

are really in demand anymore. how much of your 30 years experience is relevant? Companies will only pay you for what they see as relevant today. And so you've got to take that. can't just go by, well, I have X number of years experience. So what? Or I have a master's degree. So what? if I, if I, let's say I was an employer and someone, and someone, well, you know, I think I should be paid more because I have a master's degree. I'd say, okay, tell me how your master's degree is going to

Help me help this organization compare to the person sitting next to you only as a bachelor's degree. You have to be able to make that case.

That's it. That's

that is the gold right there. It's really what what can you do for me? What can you do for this organization? Yep.

Yeah,

that's really what it is. It's a business transaction. I might love you and think you have a great personality, but if you aren't bringing value to work, or you aren't keeping your skills up to date, or you aren't willing to learn new things, your value is going to become limited and at a quicker pace than ever before because things are changing so rapidly.

So, charging your worth, you're saying, is that a cut it or a keep it?

It's a keep it. Keep it. You gotta really be realistic about what your worth is and really understand what that what

Yeah,

exactly. Well, Julie, that has been fun. I love the Cut It or Keep It round. Thank you so much for playing that. Are there any other maybe like resources or anything that has inspired you and helped you on your your success and in your journey?

There's one book that I love. Let me look up the title, because I always get it wrong. But as I'm doing that, can follow me on Instagram or TikTok, Julie on the job, and also connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm also, you can go to my website and sign up for Cabrera Happiness Tips, because we're getting ready to launch a bunch of stuff just for women. And so you'll be up to date on those things as well.

So if you're out there listening and just looking for some resources from Julie, she is about to come out with some exciting content. make sure to.

Follow

me on those things, connect with me LinkedIn, sign up for our happiness tips, you'll hear about it right away. And we only send a newsletter out once a month.

that

stuff that Julie just explained right there. We'll put that in the show notes.

So there's this guy who wrote this book, these books, his name is Gay Hendrix. He's a man. He wrote a book called The Big Leap and The Genius Zone. And I love those books because he talks about your zone of excellence versus your zone of genius. A lot of us get to our zone of excellence, but we never get to our zone of genius. It helps you kind of break it down. Gay Hendrix, two books I highly recommend. And you know, the thing is, Sarah, I do this for a living.

but I get great value from other people's content.

Stop

learning. No. Well, and I think that that's the key to continuing. Cause one of the things that I like to talk about here on, this podcast is reinvention and transformation. Yes. And when you're reinventing yourself and you're being creative and you're transforming into the next version of you and you're entering into the next chapter, that's really important.

I'll get stuck.

to continue to grow, continue to develop, and to continue to learn. There's just no other way, honestly. I feel that you can even find the satisfaction that you were talking about in that one piece of your puzzle. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yes, it's there, but you've got to dig for it. And don't let other people overly influence you one way or the other. If you're in the wrong job, let's say you're kind of a mediocre performer in your current job. You know what that tells me? You're in the wrong job. doesn't tell me you're mediocre. It tells me you're in the wrong job.

That's a very good distinction too because it isn't you as a person that's mediocre. No, it's that you're in the wrong place for you to be able to truly shine and realize your potential. Julie, this has been amazing. I feel like this has just been kind of like mind blowing. All the information you've given us, the frameworks, it's, I cannot wait for people to check out the resources that you have coming down the pipeline.

Usually it's not, no.

I will put these book links also into the show notes. I'm glad everybody's had a chance to meet you. I know everybody's going to love you as much as we do. I just, again, want to thank you so much for,

Thank

you. When Jamie first reached out and said, I was like, yeah. I told him, said, Sarah's a badass. said, I'd be so honored to chat with Sarah. She's the best. You're so sweet. So yes. So any way I can help you, anything, please, of course, always let me know. I'm here for you.

And same here, I'm always here to support you and I'm cheering you on every step of the way. So thank you so much for coming on, Thank you for joining me on this episode of Lessons from Your Hairstylist. I hope you found inspiration and actionable insights to embrace your unique beauty and life.

Elevate your...

Remember, it's all about taking small steps towards a happier, healthier you. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please take a moment to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who might benefit from it. Together, let's continue unlocking the secrets to living beautifully fulfilled. Until our next appointment, keep your thoughts on your visions, your self-talk kind, and remember to keep your heart open so you don't miss any opportunities waiting for you out there. I'll see you on the next one.