This podcast episode delves into the essential role of philosophy in public discourse and its enduring relevance in contemporary society. We assert that philosophy has historically served as a forum for communal engagement, promoting wisdom and virtue among individuals and within societies. We explore the significant contributions of both Eastern and Western philosophical traditions, highlighting figures such as Socrates and Confucius, who sought to disseminate knowledge to the public. Our discussion further emphasizes the importance of critical thinking as a tool for navigating the complexities of modern life, particularly in the face of manipulative tactics that exploit vulnerability. Ultimately, we invite listeners to reflect on their own philosophical journeys and consider how cultivating wisdom can enrich their lives and the broader community.

The discourse presented in this episode revolves around the profound significance of public philosophy and its inherent role in fostering communal wisdom. Both speakers engage in a thought-provoking exploration of historical philosophical figures, such as Socrates and Confucius, emphasizing their commitment to disseminating knowledge and virtue amongst the populace. This reflection elucidates the essence of philosophy as a communal endeavor rather than an isolated pursuit, underscoring the necessity for philosophical dialogue in contemporary society. The episode further delves into the practical implications of philosophy, particularly in the context of critical thinking and self-awareness, as the hosts share personal anecdotes about the challenges posed by modern manipulative tactics, such as scams, that exploit cognitive biases. The conversation serves as a clarion call for listeners to cultivate their critical faculties and remain vigilant against the encroachment of manipulative influences, thus reinforcing the episode's central thesis: philosophy is not merely an academic exercise but a vital instrument for navigating the complexities of life. Through this examination, the hosts invite the audience to reflect on their own practices of self-cultivation and the importance of philosophical inquiry in enhancing personal and communal well-being.

Takeaways:

• This podcast emphasizes the public nature of philosophy, highlighting its accessibility and importance for all individuals.
• Philosophy serves as a means of cultivating wisdom and virtue, which positively impacts society as a whole.
• The conversation discusses critical thinking in the context of recognizing and avoiding manipulative techniques and scams.
• Listeners are encouraged to reflect on how they cultivate their own self-awareness and clarity during challenging times.
• The hosts explore the significance of education as a tool for liberation from ignorance, akin to the allegory of the cave.
• Ultimately, the podcast advocates for the integration of philosophical discussions into everyday life to enhance understanding and personal growth.

Links referenced in this episode:

• dietzadam@gmail.com
• 
  
• thewaybetween@substack.com
• theonaut.com
• theonaut2nr.com

Foreign and I am your co host today on the Living Conversation with.

And I'm Adam Dietz.

Welcome. Thank you guys for tuning in. And before we got started today, we were talking about why are we here?

Why are we doing this, this recording and conversation, the living conversation. So would you talk a little bit about that?

Yeah. Well, philosophy is public. Philosophy has always been public. Philosophy has always been for the people. You take it from Eastern tradition or Western.

Socrates went to the lyceum. He was in public convincing people that virtue and wisdom were the best for everyone, that it would help the entire culture, the entire society.

On the other hand, in the East, Confucius figured out and decided that he wanted to teach anyone that could attend. He taught anyone who could attend. Descartes published his work in French instead of Latin.

Lao Tzu left some words with the gatekeeper as before he retired. Buddha came back from nirvana and wanted to teach. So philosophy has always been about the people. Philosophy has always been public.

The best philosophy is always about having a conversation, learning from each other, seeking wisdom, practicing virtue in daily life. That's why we're here at the Living.

Conversation and turning over ideas, you know, and one of the things that I had done as a, as a talk, the courage to transform knowledge into wisdom. So because philo is love, but ology is. Ology is study, but philo is wisdom or knowledge.

And that actually, in my looking at it speaks to both sides of the brain. Wisdom is the right brain and knowledge is the left brain.

But yeah, Sophie, Sophia's wisdom.

Yeah, Sophia's wisdom. Right. So anyway, I wanted to just talk a little bit about what's been going on for me this week.

I've been getting a number of scam calls, but I think it's really important for people to be able to distinguish that and older adults like myself, because I also got a call the other day which is called the grandpa scam. And somebody called me up and said, grandpa. And I said, who is this? And they said, oh, it's your eldest. And it was a guy.

And they don't know that my eldest is a, is a woman. So. But it's this idea of people taking advantage of posing as who they aren't. And I think it's.

And I even this morning got a, an email said, fix this error immediately. You know, so it's trying to hustle you into acting without thinking things through.

And that's one of the things that I think is really important to go into with regard to critical thinking. And I just wanted to share my screen Here quickly with my spotting manipulative techniques and argument.

And the first six or seven of them are from Cialdini. Authority, liking, commitment and consistency, Scarcity, reciprocation, social proof and belonging.

And this is from a guy named Robert Cialdini who studied what was going on in the Jonestown commune. And do you remember that? The Jonestown commune?

Yeah, I've, I've heard of that for sure. And just, just for our listeners who don't have a visual, we're looking at something called Clini patterns and manipulation Patterns.

Yeah, yeah.

But anyway, this was where the, the idea of to drink the Kool Aid because Jim Jones was a cult leader and when he started to get held accountable, he got real paranoid and he got 800 people to drink the Kool Aid. But part of his method for doing this and this, you can find this on my website in the course materials was through authority.

People will tend to not critically think around authority.

While I'm a police officer or I'm a professor or some other part of authority liking is, well, like you, you know, if you like somebody, you tend to be more amenable to them. Commitment and consistency.

There's very quickly a story about when somebody comes to your house with a save the whale stamp to put in the upper corner of your window and you say, okay. And then they come by a week later and they say, oh, you got a whale stamp in your window. Can we put a placard on your, in your front window?

And then they come back a week later. Oh, we could put a lawn sign up. Right. So it's known also as the camel's nose. Under the tent there's the idea of scarcity.

So call before midnight tonight. Reciprocation is about. Do you remember the Hare Krista's from the 60s? They would hand out flowers.

You know, social proof is, well, everyone else is doing it. And then belonging is. If you want to belong, you have to accept this idea. But the other four points that I've looked at with cults are specialists.

Isolation, secrecy and threats. Those of you who are listening to this blog are very special, but you need to listen to it alone.

And it has to be kept secret because these are secret teachings.

Because if you don't keep it secret, you know, and that's one of the, the red flags is when, when threats come around and we're not starting to notice that anyway. But do you have any thoughts about how the, how some of these show up in Asian philosophy, either Indian or Daoist?

I think for my impression of Chinese philosophy is that we need to constantly cultivate ourselves. We cultivate ourselves, then we are in our right mind. We are, I want to say, almost stronger, but more loyal to our true self, more authentic, more.

We have more time and space in our mind. We are able to think more clearly.

So, so it's.

Yeah, in that regard, we would be very free from. From these, these potential influences because we'd be taking the time, we'd have our mind or have our clarity.

But also really important in Chinese philosophy is caution in Western culture, Western philosophy, we're always seeking the next new thing. We're always exploring, innovating. Traditional Chinese, traditional Chinese culture is your cautious. You protect yourself.

So you don't go into these dangerous areas. You just stay peaceful. You just maintain your house, maintain yourself, maintain your home, keep harmony. You just focus on keeping your safety.

Allow your mind to develop in its own area. Not getting overextended, not getting trapped. Not so. Oh, you always have a way of retreat as well. You have a. You have an out. You keep yourself with.

You know, maybe if you go into a situation, you, you make sure it also comes up. This is like Taoist philosophy, Lao Tzu, but this is like sunset art of war. So if you go to a battle, you have. Give yourself a way out.

All kinds of different methods and thoughts and strategies in Chinese culture, ancient Chinese philosophy, that you would be able to. One, keep your mind very cultivated so you can be aware in.

You're in a good place mentally, you're not feeling desperate, like you want to fall for a scam. Your mind is very clear. But also you really emphasize safety. You just take care of yourself. You don't go into some dangerous area.

Well, one of the things too is that people are always holding stuff out to you. Wouldn't you like some of this? You know, and I do occasionally find myself getting caught.

But I want to offer, and I may have offered this before on this show is something that my downs. The wisest thing my down syndrome daughter ever said to me was when she made a mistake, she said, oh, silly me. And I find myself when I get caught.

I'm like, oh, wait a minute, silly me. I'm going to let go of all that stuff that has hooks in it. And you're silly me.

And I'm going to come back to my center and get grounded again and cultivate myself in. In quietness.

Yeah, that's great. And we also, you know, it is a living conversation. We want to know what the listeners, how they. Absolutely.

How do you center Yourself, how do you avoid trouble? How do you cultivate yourself? When do you find, like your mind is very free and easy and wise? And how do you. How do you maintain that?

How do you avoid trouble?

That brings up something. And we've only got a few minutes left in this section, but I've heard you speak about the free and easy wanderer.

Can you speak a little bit about that? What? That. What is that?

Yeah, Chuang's. The first chapter is the Dr. Wu, our mentor, he called it, he said a better translation is the Rome of spiritual freedom.

And the most common version that we have is called the free and easy wonder. But this is when you cultivate your mind to the highest level, then you understand your own true self, your own true nature.

Then you can free and easy roam amongst the true self and true nature of all things. We've talked about before in this show that for Confucius, we all are made of heaven.

That manifests in human beings, in our humanity, but all things are made of heaven. This also correlates with what we talked about before with Carl Sagan, that all things can trace their molecules back to the Big Bang.

So this is in science, we are all made of heaven.

So in Chuang Tzu, when you have your mind at this highest level, when you see this highest level, then you can free and easy roam in this spiritual level. You can free and easy roam in the heavenly nature of all things.

You can freely and easily roam the wander of spiritual freedom, the roam of spiritual freedom. You can go everywhere and you are at home in the land of true nature, true self. So.

So you, you can understand every single thing that you see in its heavenly nature, in its stardust nature, in its true self nature at its highest level. This is the room, this room of spiritual freedom.

Okay, and we're coming to the end of this section here. But I remember there was a. I think it was a koan or a public case. In Buddhism, to study the Buddha way is to study the self.

To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to become one of. With the 10,000 things.

Is becoming one with the 10,000 things, meaning everything continues endlessly and everything drops away. And so I.

In our next segment, I would like to talk a bit about forgetting the self, because I think that's when you forget the self and you go into the zone. Like, you know, as a soccer coach, you know about cultivating your soccer players to go into the zone.

Then they just play and they don't think about it. And I Want to come back to this idea that there's a rock drummer named Vinny Colatuta who said thought is the enemy of flow.

So let's talk about that in the next segment.

I'm Adam Dietz and you can contact me@dietzadammail.com d I e t z adammail.com or if you prefer, and you're active on Instagram, I'm@the.way between on Instagram. I'm also on Substack. The way between on substack. That's where almost everything will be filtered through on substack.

You can also search this up on YouTube, but I think those are the best avenues, those first three.

So I really appreciate everyone chiming in, but please give us any information that you have about how you've been able to protect yourself, cultivate yourself, grow, flourish in these times.

And I'm Anthony Wright and my website is theonaut T-H-E-O-N-A-U-T.com and it's a as an apple, s as in Sam, w as in William. Numeral 2 n as in Nora, R as in Robert. I'll say that again, ASW2nrtheonaut.com or you can make a comment directly on my website.

I'm Anthony Wright and I am your co host today on the Living Conversation with Adam Deeds. And Adam, before the break, we were talking about the Free and Easy Wanderer.

Oh, and I want to make sure to offer to our listeners and if you would, please, this is a show about public expression of philosophy. Public philosophy. Why should we have public philosophy? Isn't philosophy a luxury? Why should you study philosophy?

Yeah, wisdom. Wisdom. First of all, wisdom enriches your own life. The more you know about something, doesn't it feel more rich?

So don't you want to know more about life? So if you want to know more about life, then you study philosophy. Study wisdom. Wisdom in life, in practice. That's this living conversation.

We're having a conversation about life. And this conversation should be alive. This conversation should enter into our lives. Philosophy should enter into our lives. And philosophy.

The best philosophy has always been public because the best philosophers always knew that the better we all are, then the better society will be. It's, it's, it's. A rising tide lifts all boats. If we are all wise and virtuous, wouldn't we like to live in a place like that?

So the more we allow philosophy to enter into the public, the more beneficial it is for everyone. The more we allow philosophy and wisdom to enter into our lives, the more enriched our lives should be.

Socrates said, the unexamined life is not worth living. That, so that the reverse dies. That examining things, being critical about them, taking, being mindful of them, makes life worth living.

Well, and I'm also brings to mind Plato's Cave. There's a lot of us, our fellow human beings, that are choosing to remain willfully ignorant. And can you quickly tell the story of Plato's Cave?

Well, for, for those of you who don't know, Plato's Cave is an image. It comes in the, the book, the Republic.

Okay.

And it's an image. The Republic is to discuss how to have the best country. So Socrates and his friends are discussing what's the best way to organize a country.

So they start from the beginning. They say, well, you need this, you need that, you need this, you need, you need food, for example, you need, you also need security.

So you need soldiers, but also, also you need education in education, a wise, virtuous education. Because how else can we live? Well, we need wisdom and virtue. So the allegory of the cave is to show that this is what education should be.

Education is like, we are all chained to. Education helps us out of the situation. Education is liberation.

So the allegory is like we are all chained facing a cave wall, and behind us is a fire. And in between us and the fire are captors holding little silhouettes, little minuets. What do you call those?

Little puppets?

Yeah, little puppet type of things that cast a shadow on the cave wall. So our entire life, the allegory says our entire life, we are a chain. We are facing just these shadows on the wall.

Right.

And that's our reality, is all we know.

Yeah.

If someone gathered us and led us out the cave through a pathway that ascends to opening in the ground, this is like the path of education. We reorient our minds from shadows to truth. This is the upward journey of the soul. So true.

Education is like we lead our minds out of a cave of shadows to see reality. So what would this experience be like? It would be difficult. It'll be challenging. As we move out of the cave, we feel very disoriented.

Right.

As we finally leave the cave, the world feels so bright and just, just mind boggling to us. It would take some adjustment time.

Right.

But would we ever want to go back in shackles again? Absolutely not. We would rather, we would rather be a servant in reality than the king of the shadows down below.

So this, then we would go back into the cave. To say, hey everyone, this is not right. This is not reality. Get out of here. And what would happen, they will all think you're crazy.

They don't know anything about reality. So this is like, this is an allegory for education.

The real education is that we reorient our soul towards, towards truth, towards, towards what really matters, what really exists. And we stop chasing shadows on a wall. And, and this is, this is an allegory for that experience.

Well, what's so curious to me is it seems that some of us are choosing to go back in and put the chains on so that we can do on to those who are still in the cave. And there's an image that came to mind as you were speaking. There's a tarot card image about the devil.

And it's not that I'm advocating for this in any way or anything, but the devil is standing there and there's a male and a female and they have chains on, but the chains are loose. And I would presume that everyone has a choice to. The chains are loose. If we choose not to know that the chains are loose, then they.

We can't get out. But I think, isn't that the point of education is to offer choice and awareness of choice? Would you say that's true?

Yeah, I remember vividly my first days in Philosophy 101 class and I went and changed my major right away. Oh, really? Socrates said, you know, wouldn't we mentioned this before in episode one?

But wouldn't you, if you're out at sea, would you rather, rather be with a wise sea captain or ignorant one? Yeah, he goes along and says, what about war? What about medicine? Always you want the wise person.

So his argument was that we don't, we want to have a good life. So then don't you want to have wisdom about life? So then don't you want to study philosophy?

What else would you possibly want to do in life than study how to live? Well, right. So I went and changed my major right away. But, but you know, later, a couple weeks later, we learned the allegory of the cave.

And, and I thought, man, why isn't my teacher like, famous? Why doesn't he have an infomercial? Who, who, who would, who would not listen to this? Why does he have like infomercial?

Why hasn't he written a million books that everyone wants to be wise? And this was naive. I was naive. And you know, I was also believing in the still. I was very young, so I was also naive and believing in meritocracy.

Right.

But I later on the soccer team, I had, I mentioned to a few different teammates, you should take this class. The younger teammates, you should take this class. And one kind of enjoyed it. One just was meh. And I thought, wow, okay, so this is just different.

People respond differently to the shadows on the wall and to coming out cave.

Yeah. But you, you became aware that you weren't aware.

Yeah. Socratic ignorance.

And so you chose to step out. And I'm sure that, that it was, you know, we talked last week about, about the stagnating food.

But the food that is offered by philosophy is always fresh. You know, I have to say it's, it's the basis of knowledge is philosophy.

Yeah. For, for millennia.

So there's a philosophy of business, there's a philosophy of politics, there's a philosophy of our lives. So anyway, and before we get too far into our next section here, last section, I was talking about forgetting the self.

And that's in Chuna, but it's also in a number of other places, like to study the Buddha way. Can you talk about when you're coaching a, a soccer team, how do you cultivate people going into the zone?

And I suppose it's a mastery of fundamentals. Right. But how do you do that?

Well, you know, my kids were on.

A swim team once and they had.

A speaker come into us and they had done some research.

It was about basically training the parents how to support your training the parents rather than the teaching the parents that the best, the highest level, we always say, have fun, have fun. When you tell your child to go out, play a sport, have fun.

And this is actually the right message because when you're in the zone, it's the ultimate function. You feel so free, you forgot yourself.

Right.

So.

So telling your kids to have fun when they go play a sport is, is correct. And then what the parent should say is, I had a lot of fun watching you out there. Maybe later you can talk about if you know the sport.

Maybe later you can talk about some things they could work on or this or that.

But why didn't you get more goals? You know, that's not the goal. Right.

It's good to analyze and examine for sure. You should investigate the is this is part of life, but you should be always having fun.

Right.

And so we, we do this actually we do this very well in America. When I was in, when I was in China, my, my close liaison said in China, we don't know in Japan they know how to work very hard, work very well.

In America, you know how to have fun. You always have fun. Go do many different things to amuse yourself. He said, he said, in China, we don't know either. We don't do either.

I said, actually, I disagree. I. When I was in China, I thought that they were constantly integrating fun and work together.

That work, yeah, work didn't feel like a task and a chore. Work felt like social and it felt like people were happy to be with each other. So this is. Your humanity is coming out.

So this, this is actually the most fun.

Was there more of a. Speaking of China where you went to teach English, did you find more of a community spirit?

Yeah. Was cultural once that a very, very meaningful thing?

And I mentioned this when we were in China and it would just, it would just stop people in their tracks.

What's that?

Dr. Wu once that either it was from himself or his friend, some, some young person would say, why do we need to study Confucius? Confucius is very old. I don't study Confucius.

We shouldn't study that old guy. It's. It's anachronism, right?

Yeah. And his friend said, even though Confucius is from a very long time ago, we still understand him today.

It's like even though the sun is very far away, we still feel its warmth.

Oh, that's.

So even though I went to China after, even Mao, after Cultural Revolution, after denying tradition for a long time, you could still feel the warmth, the warm heartedness in the people. You could still feel the warmth of Confucius. People still giants like Confucius had filial piety.

So you would go around town and every stranger if they were in good faith was like your uncle. Every older stranger was like your grandpa.

Can you explain filial piety, please?

So yeah, filial piety for Confucius is. This is the first place we learn humanity. Humanity is the most important virtue in.

Confucius, the very first place.

Learn practical wisdom. Humanity is with mother and father, our first relationship. This is philosophy in life, in practice. Humanity, we are all human beings.

We all have a mother and father. We all need to learn to relate this way. So Confucius said, father should be a father, a son should be a son. Or we can modify it.

A parent should be a parent, a child should be a child. That means the parent works very hard to take care of the child.

The parent feels very strong connection, wants to make the life so good for the child. So this is the spirit of a parent. And with this spirit of a parent. The reciprocal also is that a child really feels reverent.

I'll follow my mom and dad because they care for me. They will help me go in the right direction. I won't listen. I won't run into the street because my mom and dad said no, oh, I just saved my life.

But wouldn't you say there's a lot of reciprocal respect?

Yes, yes.

When it's, that's when the parent, the child's a child.

Yeah, both are.

Respect.

Yes, yes. Reverence, Filip, and reverence for each other.

Right, Right. Well, we have to take another break. I'm Anthony Wright and I'm here with my co host.

I'm Adam Dietz and you can contact me@deetsadamail.com die e t z adam gmail.com or if you prefer and you're active on Instagram, I'm@the.way between on Instagram, also on substack. The way between on substack. That's where almost everything will be filtered through on substack.

You can also search us up on YouTube, but I think those are the best avenues, those first three. So I really appreciate everyone chiming in.

Please give us any information that you have about how you've been able to protect yourself, cultivate yourself, grow, flourish in these times.

And I'm Anthony Wright and my website is theonaut T-H-E-O-N-A-U-T.com and it's a as in Apple, S as in Sam, W as in William, numeral 2n as in Nora, R as in Robert. I'll say that again, ASW2NRNAught.com or you can make a comment directly on my website, Sam.