Discover how to build lean muscle, balance hormones, and reignite metabolism after 50. In this episode, you’ll learn the science behind muscle as a metabolic organ, how to train smarter (not harder) through menopause, and why recovery and hormone balance are key for strength and longevity. Perfect for women who want to stay strong, lean, and vibrant at any age.

• Muscle as metabolic medicine for women in midlife
• Smart strength training splits and recovery for hormone health
• Balancing HIIT, Zone 2, and daily movement for longevity
• Hormone replacement therapy and testosterone in women
• Protein, creatine, and supplement strategies for women over 50

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00] Why muscle is key to metabolic health and glucose control in midlife

[00:44] Starting bodybuilding at 50 and transforming your body at any age

[01:33] Perimenopause, insulin resistance, and how strength training helps

[03:19] Common training mistakes: too much cardio and skipping a coach

[05:44] How to find the right trainer for women 40–60+

[09:46] Bodybuilding lessons: muscle splits, compound lifts, and progression

[12:37] The best full-body plan for busy women (2–3 days a week)

[14:21] How to train with balance and recovery between workouts

[15:14] Heavy lifting, volume, and tempo — finding your intensity sweet spot

[17:55] Conditioning vs cardio: HIIT, Zone 2, and power training explained

[19:07] The ideal weekly mix for fat loss, recovery, and stress control

[22:30] Daily walking, HRV tracking, and training around your stress load

[27:26] Injury prevention: knees, shoulders, hips, and posture correction

[33:17] Midlife recovery tools: mobility, foam rolling, flexibility, and rest

[34:12] Men vs women in training — why women won’t “bulk up”

[35:04] Estrogen decline, sarcopenia, and how to preserve muscle in menopause

[36:23] HRT and testosterone therapy — benefits, myths, and what to watch for

[41:13] Protein goals and timing for women 40+

[42:54] Carbs, fats, and how to eat for energy and body composition

[44:22] Creatine, protein shakes, and supplement stack for strength

[46:47] Carol’s book, podcast, and where to connect with her online

Guest: Carol Covino

Website: https://carolcovino.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/carolcovinofitness/

LET’S CONNECT

Host: Orshi McNaughton

Website: https://www.optimizedwomen.com/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@optimizedwomen

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/orshimcnaughton

I didn't start competing until I was 50 for my first competition, and then I competed at age 51, 63 now.

So I went almost 12 years in that world.

We think about getting stronger and building muscle and looking better, but we don't think about the metabolic part of health.

When you have muscle, you have a place for that excess blood glucose to go.

It's going to increase our metabolic output.

Our energy expenditure is increased, meaning more calories, we can eat more food.

When we have muscle, if we have too much body fat, we don't get that same boost in metabolism that we do from muscle.

Everyone's talking about the importance of muscle mass and strength training, and hopefully women are listening and are jumping in at doing it.

Women will really burn themselves out trying to do too much and really undo the strength training with too much of the cardio.

I really didn't start bodybuilding until 50, and so it is not too late to, to get those benefits and to make those changes and to change your body.

Welcome to the Optimized Woman, where we explore the future of health and longevity and what it really means to live life on our own terms.

I'm your host, Orshi McNaughton, and I talk with experts and innovators pushing the boundaries of what is possible today so you can turn these insights into your own health transformation.

Together, we are here to unleash the unstoppable force you're meant to be.

So if you're ready to own it, start thriving again and live the life you deserve, then let's get to it.

We think about getting stronger and building muscle and looking better, but we don't think about the metabolic part of health.

So as we go through perimenopause, we start to get a problem with blood sugar regulation, blood glucose regulation.

We can even become insulin resistant.

Where insulin cannot do its job, it cannot shuttle that blood sugar, that excess blood sugar, the cat, shuttle it where it belongs, into the cells, into the muscles.

But when you have muscle, what's so wonderful is you have a place for that excess blood glucose, blood sugar to go.

We're going to use that.

So it's like a, like a sponge, like a sink, where it just takes that in.

And so from a metabolic standpoint, it's important in that way.

And then also it's going to increase, increase our metabolic output.

Our energy expenditure is increased, meaning more calories.

We can eat more food when we have muscle, so it is metabolically active.

And if we have too much body fat, we don't get that same boost in metabolism that we do from muscle.

So it's very important.

There is a big push in the space currently for women to be strength training.

And I think if you are tuned into any of the podcasts, everybody's talking about the importance of muscle mass and strength training.

And hopefully women are listening and are jumping in and doing it.

But what are the most common mistakes that women are making?

If they have not trained a lot during their 30s necessarily, maybe they are in their 40s now and they say, okay, and I have to start working out or I have to start lifting heavier weights.

What are the biggest mistakes that they are making?

The first one that I see, and I made it myself, is just having too much endurance.

Cardio.

Endurance cardio can serve a purpose.

And there's a joy factor in going on longer runs, or at least there was for me, or long hikes or playing a lot of tennis and having that endurance.

But when we're trying to strength train and do endurance, we have to find that balance of not just doing endurance exercise and putting strength training on the back burner.

So that's the first thing I see, is women will really burn themselves out trying to do too much and really undo the strength training with too much of the cardio.

And then the second thing I see is really not hiring a coach or a trainer.

When I first started, that is one thing I did.

I was a marathon runner and I was in my 40s, you know, nearing 50, late 40s, and I actually broke a metatarsal running, could not run.

And I'm like, oh, what do I do?

I gotta do something.

I'm in a boot.

So I started going to string training classes, hired a trainer, and really hiring a coach was the best thing I did to teach me proper form.

Have somebody watch you learn the right way.

Because I think women, maybe they see a workout on Instagram or TikTok or YouTube, and they just go into the gym and easy to get injured that way.

Or to do the wrong exercises in the wrong amount at the wrong time.

Yeah, I think when you start especially lifting heavier weights, form becomes so important.

It's more important to have good form than to lift super heavy.

You really have to learn the movement first.

And when you are first doing it, and especially not looking in the mirror, you really can't tell what your form looks like.

And.

And it's so important to have a person who's looking at you from a different perspective, look at your form, see, and just give you small tips, because even those small tips will go such A long way of how to grip the bar, how to position yourself, or if you, even if you are in a machine, which is probably a better beginner way to get started than to start with barbells, it really shortens your opportunity to get results.

It gives you the shortcut.

And this is why we hire a coach.

So I so agree with that.

And now that I mentioned, you know, going to a box gym versus taking classes, where do you recommend people start if they are a beginner?

I started with classes.

So there's nothing wrong with going to a class.

The problem with the class is they really are more about entertainment.

And I discovered this when I became a group fitness instructor.

It was about capturing people's attention, making the workout interesting and kind of entertaining them.

And that's not always the best way because what happens there is it's all about making the workout as hard as you can.

If you think about not to pick on orange theory, but you think about orange theory, it's all about push, push, push.

So I really think finding a good gym and then watching the trainers in that gym and saying which one really knows the their stuff.

And if you are a woman, let's say you're over 45, you're over 50, what population are they working with?

Because they work with different populations.

Some trainers will specialize in youth, some will be working primarily with moms in their 30s, and then some will be working with individuals who are 40, 50, 60 plus and making sure they know they have the knowledge.

And are they working with women or are they giving women the same thing they would give their male client, so to speak.

And so really watching, asking questions, being careful that you choose somebody that you resonate with.

I think a gym is good because home workouts are great, but if you're just there by yourself, you know, no one watching your form and dumbbells are actually, they're challenging.

My youngest daughter pointed that out to me the other day.

She said, I'm not ready for the dumbbells, they're too hard.

And I said why are they hard?

And she says, I can't control them well.

And what arm's doing one thing and one arm's doing another.

Some maybe starting at the gym with those machines and someone that can help you with those.

And I think when you're looking for a personal training, the worst thing you can do is hire a 18 year old kid, usually a male kid who's just out of high school, have absolutely no idea how to deal with women that are older or when I say Older, like in midlife, or have any type of injuries or limitations.

And when you are in your 20s or even your 30s, even if you're a female, it's hard to fathom what it feels like to be in your 40s or 50s.

And I'm just speaking from experience.

I got into fitness in my mid-30s, and when I was training women at that age, I was pushing them so hard and I just sort of assume that they can do what I can do.

And I really haven't gone through my own journey yet of aging and going through my own limitations and struggles as I went through my 40s and now in my 50s.

So when you work with somebody who's a little bit older, at least your age, I think they've already had that life experience themselves.

And then of course, the more population of people they work with, as Carol said, that if you see them working with people that are in their 40s, 50s and 60s and up, then you know that they have some experience with that group.

So I think that's so important to get the right trainer.

The type of group environment I like to work out in is like, I recently joined just here in San Diego, a gym that's a strength and conditioning gym that I really love that that they have coaches and it's primarily weightlifting and conditioning.

Once you are getting to having some experience and you have the basic form down, then there are other types of settings where you don't necessarily need a one on one coach.

But I think a one on one trainer is a really good way to start to learn the basic lifts and the basic movements.

So let's go into how to structure the most effective training plan for the type of physique that you want for yourself.

And Kirill, you were in the bodybuilding space for many years and you did some fitness competitions, so you have a lot of experience.

Tell us a little bit about your background so the listeners can understand how much you've been training.

And you've been doing this for a really long time.

Oh, a long time.

But I didn't start competing until I was 50 for my first competition.

And then I competed at age 51, 63 now.

So I went almost 12 years in that world and really I did it to transform my body because I went to a show, saw a friend, saw her before and after process, and went, wow, that's what I want up on that stage is what I want to look like.

And that was the initial driver to me doing it.

And I learned a lot through the process.

And with bodybuilding it can be extreme with the nutrition, the diet and the training.

But I think that there's lessons that all of us can glean and there's things that we can put into effect from that bodybuilding training workout.

So you can do full body, which there's nothing wrong with full body.

I have clients that do that.

If they only have a couple to three days a week to train and they're very short on time, they're working two jobs, whatever it is, yes, that's the way to go.

But if you have a little time to dedicate, to really focus on individual muscle groups, I'm a fan of that because that is what's going to change your body the most.

And so with, with bodybuilding, what we do is we'll focus on, say, legs, and we might focus on quadriceps in one workout and more glutes and hamstrings in another.

We might focus on shoulders and triceps in a workout and then the pull muscles, which are the back and the biceps.

Now, as far as if you're limited on time, I would say the compound movements are the best.

Those are going to be your squats, L lunges, chest press, things that use multiple joints and multiple muscle groups.

They're going to give you the biggest bang for the buck.

So for instance, a chest press, you're working the shoulders, you're working the triceps, you're working the chest, you're getting that metabolic benefit because it's using so many muscle groups.

Same with a squat.

It's really, you know, taxing to your central nervous system.

You're using a lot of energy for that.

If you're limited on time, focus on those compound movements that use multiple muscle groups.

I would love to break it down.

So maybe starting with somebody who just have two times a week, I think the absolute minimum effective dose is two to three times a week.

You gotta lift heavy.

And then if you do have the time and the excitement to go and work like three or five days a week and break it down to muscle groups or even six days a week, that it's a little bit different workout.

So could we start maybe just like, okay, let's just say I can only do twice a week lifting and maybe I'll do yoga or something as my third workout.

I already have some experience and I go to a box gym.

What does my workout look like?

So really, if you're doing a full body, I like to start with the upper body and then I like to start with maybe a chest press with dumbbells Or a barbell, if you have experience with a barbell.

And then from there working into your shoulder presses, getting those bigger movements out of the way.

So getting those presses out of the way.

And then for lower body, your best bet is to focus on those squats.

Focus on learning to do a glute hip thrust, which is good deadlifts, if you're able to do them with your back.

Even dumbbell deadlifts are very beneficial.

So squats deadlifts, and it doesn't have to be five sets, you don't have to be there for hours.

What I like to do for my clients, it's I'll combine the upper body into like a little circuit.

So they'll go around say three times on that circuit and then they'll move to their lower body and go around three times.

There works out to be about 45 minutes a couple of times a week.

But again, focusing on those compound movements.

So lower body would be squat lunge.

If you're at a gym, then you can do a leg press.

That can be a good option too.

A multi joint exercise.

That glute hip thrust, the deadlifts, those are your main ones.

The squat deadlift, glute hip thrust.

If you had time for nothing else, those three movements are very important.

And then with the upper body, chest press, shoulder press, lat pulldowns, assisted pull ups, you know, where you put a pin in and it helps you to bring your weight up and down.

Things that really work, those larger muscle groups.

If we can expand it to three days a week, what would be your third workout?

Sometimes what I'll do if somebody has three days is I'll do an upper that's a push.

So your push muscles are your chest, your shoulders and your triceps.

And then I'll do an upper that's a pull, which is your back, your lat pull downs, your rows, single arm rows, and then your curls.

And then one day it's all lower body.

So that's an option.

Or they can do three full body days.

You just don't want them back to back.

You want some rest time in there of at least a day between those workouts.

If somebody can break it down to just say a five day workout, that's when we are now going down to more muscle groups.

You already sort of quickly went through it, but what would the frequency be, the intensity, lightweights, heavy weights, doing volume, focusing on like really lifting heavy.

How would you cycle that?

You know all those weights are effective.

The people will say that lighter weights aren't effective.

That's not true.

Anything that stimulates the muscle, that gets that muscle response, where the muscle has to adapt to that stress.

And the way it adapts is to get stronger, to get bigger.

So obviously, you know, lifting heavier weights is going to do that and I think do so quicker.

But that's not always available to everyone, you know, due to injuries or just different weaknesses within the body.

So they might have to start a little slower and work up to that, or they might have to do something a little bit more creative and work more volume.

So time under tension.

How long can I keep that muscle under controlled tension?

Because lifting heavy is just not available to me at this point in my life.

Upper body, I can typically go heavier there and, you know, less risk of injury for me.

You do want to use several different training methods.

And there's supersets where you combine two exercises that increases that volume and intensity.

Tri sets where you combine three giant sets, which might be, say, you're.

You're doing your legs, five exercises that you work in a circuit and go all the way around.

There's the time under tension with higher rep, a little lower weight.

And then if you are able to lift heavier, having heavier days, but you don't want to be lifting heavy every single lift at the gym, I find that you need to progress that and then maybe back it off.

So progress it.

For me, I like, like a couple of weeks of progressing and then pulling that back so the body can recover.

I love that.

I love all those strategies.

I think the important is not to get bored and settle into just doing the same things over and over and change it up, because your body adopts very quickly.

That's what our bodies are so good at doing.

Your workouts will lose effectiveness if you repeat the same things over and over.

And that's why it's so helpful to have a coach, maybe somebody like Carol or somebody in your local gym that can change it up for you and give you new ideas or even just trying different types of ways of working out so you get out of the rut of doing always the same things.

Right, right.

And lifting heavy.

I mean, yes, it can.

It can be great.

But a lot of people lose form.

The form breaks up, and so they're really not stimulating the muscle.

And I was guilty of that in the beginning where I just kept going heavier.

But if I look back, was I really feeling the muscle appropriately?

Probably not, because other muscle groups were jumping in on the party.

Yeah.

Now I think there's so much talk about Strength training.

And everybody's telling women not to do much cardio at this point.

But I'd like to talk about just the importance of cardio and maybe distinguishing cardio versus conditioning, because I feel like people don't really understand the difference there.

For me, conditioning is more of a broader term that refer to training your body's ability to perform, recover repeat efforts across multiple energy systems, both aerobic and anaerobic type of work.

That may be shorter duration, higher intensity intervals, circuit sprints, building work capacity, power speed, metabolic efficiency.

So I don't know if you can speak to that a little bit, but I feel like as we are aging, it's really important to maintain these systems in our body.

So our cardiovascular health is also in really good shape.

So how do we mix in maybe hiit training, some slat pushes, some battle ropes, kettlebells, circuits, sprint intervals?

How do we break up that strength training routine?

Such a good question.

And of course, it's going to look different for everyone.

I do like to train some power, which power is basically your strength plus your speed.

And the reason I like that is after age 40, particularly in women, we see a rapid decline in power.

So strength, I believe, can decline at up to 2% per year.

Power can decline at up to 4, 4 to 5% as we move through the years and through the decades.

So it's double the decline of strength.

And so really, to have some of that speed.

And it doesn't necessarily mean always, you know, explosive box jumps and all of the things.

I mean, we're using power when we get up and down from a chair, and we're, we're, you know, we're powering up and powering back down.

And that's one of those skills that you see.

I worked with an older population when I trained people, and that was something that I would see go first because they'd be having to hold on to get up and down, position their body, crank themselves around.

I'm sure you've seen it.

Instead of being able to just pop right up, and then they lose, of course, that balance too.

So they're losing their speed, their balance.

So it's important to address all of those.

I. I do like a little bit of hit, however you can get it in and you don't necessarily, if you can't jump.

Not everyone can jump.

I can't jump the way I used to.

You can get it on, you can get it cycling, you can get it on the StairMaster, which is one of my favorites, because I can really control the impact There you can power on a treadmill or wear a weighted vest to kind of increase that intensity.

And hiit, of course, is, you know, you're going to be pushing bringing up that heart rate to an uncomfortable level for a short period and then taking it down for equal or double the amount of rest.

But I do feel hiit can be overdone.

I've known women that it's like they're doing HIIT five days a week, 45 minutes each time.

Too much.

You could do a couple of sessions of say 20 minutes a week and then mix that in with some good zone two, which is going to be your walking and maybe swimming or cycling longer cardio, but with the heart rate down at a level where you could carry on a conversation between breaths.

So I like a good combination of more zone two because I do feel for lowering cortisol relaxation.

So good.

Get the steps in, get the movement in.

Little bit of hit.

I like to think of it as just kind of sprinkled on top and addressing that power.

And then part of our strength training routine can address power as well.

If we're doing squats and we're doing chest presses, we're addressing power because it requires some explosive movement to do those exercises.

Yeah, I love that answer that we really need to mix it up and things like walking and low impact exercising need to be there every single day, your daily movement.

And if you're already not doing that, you should be going out for your morning walk, get some sun exposure, get outside in the morning, do that morning and evening.

There's really are so fundamental for your circadian rhythm just to have movement in your day.

Because you may be only going to the gym three times a week, but you should be walking every single day, maybe multiple times.

What's your take on that, Carol?

Oh, walk all the time.

I have a walking pad here in my office, so if I answering emails or whatever, doing some work, I'll hop on that.

And it's not formal exercise.

I'm just moving.

Sometimes I'll do meetings, walking on the walking pad, or even do my podcast that way.

I take a couple of walks a day, usually if the weather permits, just get out in the sun and then like I said, that hit is kind of sprinkled in there.

It's not every day.

It's, you know, two to three times a week.

And then I think we have to look at our individual circumstances.

Like a woman in her 40s is under a lot of physical stress going through perimenopause and she might have you know, a very poor night's sleep.

Sleep and just really feeling taxed.

I know I was definitely that way in my 40s.

Maybe not the best day to go do that hard hit workout.

Maybe save it for another day.

So being in tune with where our bodies are at.

And then I think there's so much blanket advice right now in the health space for women where it's like all women need to do this.

Oh no.

All women need to do that.

Oh no.

The answer over here is zone two.

And it's like no, it's, it depends and it's that variance.

It's not one, one thing.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

I think it so much depends on your own stress resiliency, where you are in your life.

All those things that go into your strength bucket that I call, you know, that could be internal external stressors that you have in your life.

One thing that I personally do, I'm curious of how you tracking it, but I track my hrv, my heart rate variability through my OURA ring.

The other day I was supposed to go and get my strength and conditioning workout and I woke up in the morning and my age re was super low and I knew that I should have just not gotten to the gym.

Like I knew, I knew better that I should have not done it because my resilience was not there.

But, but I had this such a strong urge because I'm such a habitual person.

Like when I wake up I go in, I just do it.

I think it's the type a sort of personality just coming out and just, you know, when I hit the gym in the morning and I, I didn't say no and I went and I did the workout but then I was just wiped out for the rest of the day.

After the workout I, the work, I feel great because you have your cortisone going and you're, you know, you're stimulated in the morning and you have the endorphins but then afterwards you kind of pay the price.

And so it's, it's very hard to moderate sometimes and just say to ourself, okay, no, today should not be a hard hitting workout.

It should be a recovery day.

Maybe it should be better just to do a restorative yoga class or go for a walk, things like that.

So it is so individual.

But on the other hand there are people that need to be pushed because there's a lot of women that they just don't push themselves hard enough.

So I see women like, like me that are more in the sort of type A category that we push ourselves too much sometimes.

And then I also see women that are more like to be in their comfort zone and.

And they might go to the gym, but they really don't push hard enough.

You know, they don't push hard enough, neither on the cardio front nor on lifting heavy enough.

So what are you seeing with your clients?

Yes, it's the same.

It varies by.

I'm the type A person, so I have to really pull myself back because I'll tend to push when I shouldn't push.

Or something that I'm guilty of is turn a strength training session into a cardio session.

Because I'm at the gym so long, it's like two hours later, it's like, oh, no, that wasn't good.

Pull it back, Carol.

Enough is enough.

I tend to, as an athlete and being a former runner, it's like this more is better mentality goes around in my head all the time.

And that's not always true.

But I do also see the opposite where people don't push themselves enough.

And this is, again, part of this blanket advice.

I see advice like, oh, we need to stress ourselves and this is good.

Which, yes, that can be true.

And then I see too much of the other.

Oh, only zone two, and take it easy on yourself.

And I'm like, no, no, no, that's not.

The truth always lies somewhere in the middle.

It's never in the extremes.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

And that's why it's nice to have a coach or somebody you're working with that can give you some guidance of maybe what you individually need.

Let's talk about some injuries that are so common in midlife, and sometimes it stop a lot of women from working out.

Knee injuries, shoulder injuries, hip, lower back pain.

Can you.

And I know you had your own healing journey just recently.

Can you speak to some of these?

And what can we do to strengthen the weak links in our body and then also overcome these injuries so we can get back into the gym?

I think, first of all, really paying attention, especially if you are a type A woman, paying attention to when your body is saying, ooh, bad pain.

And I do believe there's like kind of the good pain where, yeah, I feel the muscle.

It's a little sore the next day.

Okay.

And then there's the pain where you're feeling it in your joints.

It's a kind of a tearing or a burning.

And I know that I had that tendency when I was younger, even 10 years ago, to keep pushing past through that and that was the bad part of my marathon running days is it taught me to zone out from pain in order to finish the race.

I think there's genetic factors.

And then as we lose estrogen, we can begin to have some problems with the joints.

That's been proven.

So you first want to have a good program that is really going to strengthen, let's say it's your knees.

You want to strengthen all the muscles around the knee.

I've seen a lot of knee problems not necessarily go away, but improve when somebody strengthens all of those muscles around the joint.

Same with your lower back, same with your hips.

You want to do what you can to strengthen all of the muscles so that they work together.

Many injuries are because one muscle is overcompensating.

A common one with women is to have shoulder issues.

And if you think about our society, we are on our phone, which is a kind of a forward leaning motion.

We're driving, which is all forward.

We're on computers.

We need to really work the rear deltoid, the back of the shoulder and the back muscles to pull us up and out, improve that posture.

So there's that corrective exercise piece too.

And again, working with a trainer who looks at you and can see, like with a front deltoid issue a lot of times, and you've probably seen this in your gym where there's the bodybuilder guy and he only works his chest.

I have a few at my gym and it's like they don't touch their legs.

They have chicken legs.

Oh, my gosh.

I see that all the time.

It's all bicep curls and chest.

Yes.

And you look at them and there's like no net.

The shoulders.

The shoulders are like earrings.

They're all the way forward into that front deltoid.

And that can cause a lot of neck and shoulder issues.

So you really want balance.

That's where I do love the bodybuilder approach because it is all about balance and balancing out the muscles and having a balanced appearance to the muscles, which is also healthy.

So I think being in tune, you know, recognizing when you're having pain and don't let that go.

You know, maybe it means seeking some physical therapy.

Maybe it means working with a coach or seeing a chiropractor, but addressing that pain rather than doing what I did back in the day, which was power through and, you know, respecting where you're at on your journey.

Like, I might be able to do things that would be hard for you or cause you injury and vice.

Versa.

And so we have to honor where we at, honor our bodies as well.

Yeah.

And what happens that an acute problem turns into a chronic problem if you push through.

And that's exactly what happened to my foot.

I have a really bad plantar fasciitis.

That's actually a problem that I've been trying to figure out right now, how to fix and doing all kinds of therapies.

More than 10 years ago, I did the Comino de Santiago hike in Spain, which is a 500 mile hike, and I loved every minute of it.

But it's one of those things where you push through the pain of walking every day.

And you actually, even though I had plantar fasciitis in the first day or Maybe by the second day, I kept walking on it for another five weeks.

And now 10 years later, I still have that problem because it turned into a chronic issue.

This is what happens when we ignore and we just keep going because we want to accomplish something.

In many ways, it's a good trait to have because you accomplish more in life.

You, you are like the go getter personality.

But on the other hand, when it comes to injuries, it's not something that you should ignore.

You definitely need to work on.

The suggestion that I usually give to the people I work with is to have periods of time in your training where you are focusing on strengthening your weak links in your body.

So, for example, I mentioned Carol before we started that I have a shoulder issue and I've been working on a lot of shoulder rehab.

When I go and do my workouts, I go there a little bit early and I do like 10 minutes of face pulls and other type of bend exercises for my shoulder to like really warm it up.

I do sort of like physical therapy type of stuff.

So by the time I start lifting, my shoulders are really warmed up, like above and beyond.

And I've done my training and then when I lift and any lift that involves my shoulders, I go really light.

Just purposely I don't lift very heavy.

It's not an injury when I torn something, but I definitely have, I can feel that something going on.

I'm also doing some peptide therapies and other things to try to heal it.

So I think it's a multi pronged approach.

You want to address it like right in the beginning you want to do rehab, but you want to keep your body moving.

You don't want to just be completely sedentary either and then utilize other type of therapies.

Like I'm going to start doing shockwave therapy.

Both on my foot and my shoulder starting tomorrow.

So it's sort of a combination in a lot of things to rehab, because you can only train as much as you can recover.

If you're not recovering, you can't train.

Especially as we are getting older, recovery becomes almost more important.

It does.

And it's so tempting to do the things we like.

I love to lift, and I'm.

I don't want a foam roll.

I'm, like, bored with that.

I don't want to do these things, the mobility things, the stretching, the flexibility.

And it's been to my detriment.

And so right now, recovering from rotator cuff surgery and bicep tendon surgery from an injury almost a year ago, and when I go back, I am looking at building in that mobility, building in that flexibility, building in more things like foam rolling and recovery into my workout so that I can push hard but then have a period of time where my body can recover because that recovery is more important than it used to be for me.

Yeah.

Now, what are the biggest differences between the way men and women build muscle and strength?

I mean, there's really not as many differences as we would think.

Women have to have their own workout with pink dumbbells where you dance around the room.

We don't need our own workouts.

We can follow.

Like my husband and I can go to the gym and follow a routine.

The difference being how much we're lifting.

The main difference, of course, is going to be they have that advantage of that testosterone to really boost up, and they can build muscles so much.

It's really hard for us as women.

I know women are always afraid about bulking up.

And I'm like, oh, don't worry about that.

I tried to bulk up for years.

It's.

It's not an easy thing for a woman to do.

Now, let's talk about what happens when estrogen starts declining as we become postmenopausal.

What happened to our muscle strength and recovery.

That'S so good?

You know, estrogen.

The more I have learned about estrogen and the roles it plays from everything to muscle to the heart, the cardiovascular to brain health, it's just phenomenal how many roles that play.

So when you have that decline, you lose that protection of your muscle.

And so, yes, testosterone, a little testosterone can help us to build muscle, but really, that protective quality is coming from estrogen.

And so when it declines, it makes it harder to build muscle, harder to retain the muscle that we have.

We're much more likely to go into that state of Sarcopenia, which is age related muscle loss, something we don't want because that leads to a loss of mobility, strength.

It's why people wind up in nursing homes and have falls.

We don't want that.

And I know I was guilty in my 40s, I would think, oh, that's far away.

Well, no, you have to worry about it, you know, sooner rather than later.

You've got to set yourself up to be ready, ready for those years.

So, yes, estrogen, when that declines, it is really going to affect our ability to retain muscle.

What's your take on hormone replacement therapy for women?

I have been on bioidentical hormone replacement therapy since age 51.

I have no intention of going off unless for some reason I'm told I have to.

And it's made a huge difference for me now whether it's right for every woman.

I'm really careful here because I don't believe that to be so.

I have clients that use hormone replacement therapy and clients that don't that are doing well.

I think it's something that a woman should educate herself, learn everything you can.

Don't be afraid of hormones based on things you've heard that are more than likely myth rather than fact.

Have a conversation with a practitioner who actually is hormone literate, because I, my first conversation was with an OB GYN and he didn't, he knew all about delivering babies, he didn't really know about menopause.

And he just told me, oh, this is just a part of getting older.

And it wasn't until I found a nurse practitioner that specialized in hormones that we could sit down and really have that conversation and explore it.

Yeah, it's amazing how many different opinions still exist today in the hormone replacement therapy space.

And I'm sure you interviewed a lot of people on your podcast and everybody seemed to have a different opinion on what to take, how to take, should you take this, should you take that?

And I agree that everybody's different and there's a lot of different ways to age.

For women that have a hard time already building muscle and now they are going into menopause.

Well, for sure, if your estrogens start declining, it's gonna be even more difficult to build muscle.

I'm curious as far as testosterone replacement for women.

So TRT for women, what's your opinion on that?

I do testosterone as well.

I do a very small injection this weekly.

I started with the cream and then I reached a point where, and I guess this happens, I just wasn't absorbing it anymore.

So I switched up My whole routine there, it's made a huge difference for me.

And testosterone, I mean, it's libido, it's muscle, it's motivations.

Sometimes if a woman is saying, I'm just not motivated and I'm tired all the time, a little testosterone can make a big difference.

But therein again, I see these extremes in the space where somebody goes, they get testosterone therapy and they're getting way too much for a woman because it only takes a little bit and you know, not to pick on the pellets.

But I'm just not a fan because I've seen it, I've seen other women go on and it.

That dose, that huge burst of testosterone into the system, just really saturating those receptors, I think it's too much.

And then you start to see the side effects like the deepening voice and the hair loss and things such as that.

So a little goes a long way.

Work with somebody who's not just in it for the money.

Because you see these clinics that pop up all over, you know, get your hormone replacement therapy.

They're really not concerned with the right amount and the balance and what's right for you.

It's just get you in, get you out, give you what you want.

So I think it's something that can be very, very beneficial for women and a game changer, but only under the right circumstances.

Hormone replacement therapy is so nuanced, and it is not a quick one.

And done it like you have to constantly adjust it, go back and forth.

Your own natural endogenous hormones go up and down.

And so you have to respond and adjust.

For example, if you haven't lifted weights for a really long time, and then now you get back into the gym and you start lifting heavy, your natural endogenous testosterone production will likely to increase.

Right?

So you should start with the gym first and see how you feel after that when you start building some muscle and pushing yourself a little bit.

But that is the big issue with pellets, is that you can pull back like what's.

Once that pellet is in your body, you're gonna live with that for several months.

And if, if it's.

If they didn't give you the right dose.

And also it's not like an even dose during that several months that you are getting it.

So I'm also not a.

Not a fan.

Either dermal or injectable, I think is probably the best way to go, because you can titrate your own dose up and down as you need.

And if you see any Type of side effects you can pull back on the dosing.

So completely in alignment with Carol on that.

I'm curious on your take on protein consumption and protein timing distribution throughout the day for women in midlife and as we are aging.

So we commonly hear eating like one gram per your ideal body weight.

What's your take on that?

Do you agree with that or do you have a different way of doing the macros?

I, I usually do 0.7 to 1 gram per pound of ideal body weight.

So obviously if somebody had a lot of weight to lose, they wouldn't start with their current weight.

They would base it on what they think they would like to weigh or what they think they should weigh.

So that's number one.

But now within that there's a lot of nuance.

So I work with a lot of women that they have trouble consuming that protein.

And you gotta meet em where they're at.

Like they're stressed, they're stressed, they're not getting their protein needs, but they literally feel they cannot shove another bite of anything protein in their mouths.

So I try to meet people where they're at, like, let's start here, let's start slow.

And then I personally feel that we need more.

If we're lifting heavy and we're working out, we're in the gym five days a week and we're really pushing our bodies, then yeah, we need that higher dose of protein.

I've even taken mine above that 1 gram per pound to say 1.2 grams per pound of body weight.

But if somebody is less active, I'm not saying they don't need protein, but maybe their needs aren't quite as high and you can bring that down a little bit.

And then again, if a woman is struggling, you gotta work with them, try to get it in any way you can.

Maybe, you know, getting to a hundred grams is better for them than trying to reach, you know, 120 grams.

And so once again, it's gonna be based.

Yes, women need protein, Yes, I emphasize it, but I also look, what are their goals, where are they going and where are they at?

What's your take on the other macros, carbs and fats in one's diet?

I like a balanced approach, but carbohydrates, I find that people have a tipping point where it's just too much, especially women once they're going through that transition to menopause.

You know, sometimes the carbohydrates aren't as well tolerated, especially if they're not very active.

So I tend to Base the carbohydrates on.

How active are you?

If I have a client, she's playing tennis, she's hiking, she's weight training, and I do have a client that's doing all three.

Her carbohydrate intake is going to be a little higher than the one that is barely getting her 5,000 steps a day.

So I do feel like, look at your blood sugar levels or do you have a problem with pre diabetes?

Then perhaps that lower carbohydrate might be better for you.

If you're very active, you don't have those blood sugar regulation issues.

You bring it up.

Carbohydrates is definitely an.

It depends on.

On the individual, where they're at.

Yeah.

And I think everybody needs to get some healthy fats in, but that also really depends on the overall makeup of what else you're eating.

So.

Yes, but we probably don't want to be restricting fat like we used to do just a few years ago where that was still in the narrative that we had to eat low fat.

I think that has changed in the last few years.

But we also need to get some healthy fats into our diet.

Now, I'm curious, what type of different supplements do you have a supplement stack to support muscle building for women that you recommend?

For myself and my clients, of course, they're doing a protein shake just to kind of help them.

It's not the main way they're meeting their protein, but it is that quick boost, especially after a workout.

I feel that protein is best if the distribution is even, rather than sitting down and trying in one meal to get 50 grams of protein too much in one setting.

So I like it distributed evenly throughout the day, whether you're having three meals or four meals.

Just make that more even.

So that's my take on that.

Now, as far as the supplements go, I do like creatine, and I think creatine has a lot of benefits.

It's one of those supplements that's very well researched, which I love.

We can't say that about too many of the supplements.

They make promises and sometimes those promises just don't come to fruition.

But creatine is one that is good to have for women.

It's good for brain health.

And I like to just look at basic things like the B vitamins, you know, methylated B vitamins, because not everyone methylates correctly.

Not everyone gets rid of toxins the same way.

And that can be helpful.

And zinc is something that I have in my.

In my.

It's not for muscle building.

But I do have it in my supplement stack.

I would just leave whoever is watching or listening with.

It's never too late.

I know that sounds very cliche, but it's so true.

I really didn't start strength training until I was in my late 40s and again, didn't start bodybuilding until 50.

And so it is not too late to get those benefits and to make those changes and to change your body.

Amen.

For sure.

Thank you.

You're such an amazing example of that.

And again, if you haven't looked up Carol yet, go to her Instagram page and check her out and everything she does because she looks absolutely amazing in her 60s.

It's such a good example to see, you know, people like you that are such a role model for women that are younger because you inspire me so much.

When I look at just the way you're rocking it in your 60s, I'm like, okay, that's what I want to look like when I'm in my 60s.

So thank you for all that you do.

How can people connect with you, find you?

I know you have an amazing podcast.

Tell us all about it.

Oh, thank you so much.

My podcast is Forever Fit with Carol Covino and you can find it wherever you like to listen to podcasts.

I'm also on YouTube.

Carol Covino Fitness.

Instagram is where I hang out the most at carolcavino Fitness and you can message me there.

I always, always answer messages, so feel free to contact me there.

I do have a book Finding Purpose in the Pause that is on Amazon.

It's about the transition from perimenopause through into menopause and website is carolcovino.com thank.

You so much for tuning in.

This is Maya.

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