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In this episode of Fintech Confidential, recorded live at the 2024 Money 20/20 event in Las Vegas, Tedd Huff and Stephany Kirkpatrick, founder and CEO of Orum, dive into the world of money movement technology. The discussion flows naturally, covering the many ways Orum is simplifying payments and enhancing access to funds. Kirkpatrick brings a unique perspective, sharing how her background as the daughter of an immigrant and a former financial planner shaped her understanding of money access and inspired her to start Orum.

Key Highlights

🚀 Making Instant Payouts Possible for Businesses

🍩 Time to Make the Donuts

💸 Why Wait for Money Movement?

💲 Real-Time Payments Without High Costs

🔒 Making Compliance Easy

💼 The Power of Clear Pricing

📊 CFPB’s 1033 Rule and Data Access

🌐 Stablecoins in International Payments

🏗 Building a Strong Product First

🤝 Trusted Partnerships for Reliable Payments

Takeaways

1️⃣ Apply Financial Planning Insights to Your Startup Vision

2️⃣ Keep Remote Teams Engaged with Simple Tools

3️⃣ Streamline Payment Solutions with Easy APIs

4️⃣ Enhance Security in Transactions with Verification Tools

5️⃣ Choose Strong Partnerships to Boost Your Business’s Credibility

Links: 

Stephany Kirkpatrick

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephany-kirkpatrick/

Orum:

Website: https://orum.io/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/helloorum

X: https://twitter.com/hello_orum

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/helloorum/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/orum.io/

Fintech Confidential

YouTube: https://fintechconfidential.com/watch

Podcast: https://fintechconfidential.com/listen

Notifications: https://fintechconfidential.com/access

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/fintechconfidential

X: https://X.com/FTconfidential

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fintechconfidential

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fintechconfidential

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About:

Guest 

Stephany Kirkpatrick is the CEO and founder of Orum, a pioneering API-based company enabling instant payouts across major payment networks. With over 15 years of experience, she has led digital product initiatives at major firms like Northwestern Mutual and LearnVest. Stephany, who began her career as a certified financial planner, founded Orum in 2019 to provide immediate financial access for businesses and consumers. Driven by her background as the daughter of an immigrant, her mission centers on enhancing financial freedom and efficiency through streamlined payment solutions.

Orum is a simple API for fast, reliable payments. Orum’s API solution delivers access to rails including Same Day ACH and standard ACH – and instant bank account verification. Orum allows businesses to launch instant payments and instant bank account verification in just days, without costly bank integrations or prolonged compliance. This in turn empowers businesses and banks to launch new payment experiences that attract and monetize more customers. Founded by Stephany Kirkpatrick and led by expert fintech operators from LearnVest, Square, N26, Klarna, Marqeta, and Stash, Orum has raised over $82 million from leading investors, including Accel, Canapi, Bain Capital Ventures, Inspired Capital, Homebrew, Acrew, BoxGroup, Clocktower Ventures, Primary Ventures and American Express Ventures. We provide the technology and expertise required to power a better financial system where everyone has the freedom to build to their potential.

Host: 

Tedd Huff is the Founder of Voalyre, a professional services advisory firm focused on global payments and DD3 Media.

Over the past 24 years, he has contributed to FinTech startups as an Advisory Board Member, Co-Founder, and Chief Experience Officer, providing strategic and tactical direction for Global Payments OpenEdge, Heartland Payments, Nuvei, and TSYS, among others, focusing on growth while delivering innovation, process improvements and user experience-driven value to simplify the complexity of payments.

DD3 Media:

DD3 Media is a  creation, management, and production company that delivers engaging content globally

Welcome to Fintech Confidential, bringing you the people, tech, and companies

that change how you pay and get paid.

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: our kids,

they're going to look at us and be like, sorry, you use your account number.

What is that?

I say this advice a lot, and I think it's way easier to say than it is to do.

Because fintech has more barriers to entry from a regulatory perspective,

don't spread yourself thin.

Hone your first product.

not all revenue is a good idea Good revenue will help you

unlock product market fit and the way that you get to scale

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: I am super thrilled.

I finally get to sit down with The legend, Stephany Kirkpatrick,

the founder and CEO of Orum

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: it's our five year birthday.

Um, that means we're just halfway to an overnight success.

at Orum, we are a remote company and we use a fun little thing

in our Slack called donut.

And it automatically randomly pairs you with somebody else in the company.

So once a week you have a 15 minute donut chat.

and that actually started five years ago when we started figuring out

how to build a remote first company.

The way that you send an ACH and the way a bank receives that is very

different than the way you send a wire, which is very different than

the way you do an RTP, which is also different than how you do FedNow.

And it's gotten increasingly more complicated.

I think in five to 10 years time,

when we move money,

we will have data Embedded in a way that today.

We don't

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Welcome to an episode of FinTech confidential leaders, a one on

one series where I sit down with FinTech leaders to uncover their

stories behind their passion, their expertise and their leadership.

Today I am super thrilled.

I finally get to sit down with The legend, Stephany Kirkpatrick,

the founder and CEO of Orum.

They're a fintech that has been revolutionizing the way

that money is getting moved and the way people look at it.

Now, her journey is something that has not only been inspiring,

but is extremely impressive.

She's, uh, A daughter, an immigrant and has dedicated her career to

helping those with less have more.

Now, her entry into financial technology and fintech in general was becoming

a certified financial planner.

So she hopefully she's got some good stock tips for me.

She has also been found on Inc.

Inc.

Magazines.

2024.

top 250 Female Founders.

and also, this year, she's celebrating the fifth anniversary of Orum.

They founded in 2019 and they've been able to add reliability and speed to payments.

But one of the things that I am just And I'm just enamored by the fact that you've

been able to raise 82 over over 82 million dollars in financing to drive this mission

forward and building that infrastructure that really aims to maximize the financial

potential of every American household.

Today, we're going to dive into Orum.

We're going to dive into some leadership lessons from, from Stephany, from

building this from the ground up.

And well, Stephany, I want to welcome you to

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: the show.

Well, thank you so much for having me.

I'm excited to be here and I love digging into all the topics we're about

to talk about, but especially for those that are listening, as you mentioned

that it's our five year birthday.

Um, that means we're just halfway to an overnight success.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: Oh, well, yesterday we had the

opportunity to sit down and have some great donuts at Donutique yesterday.

We did.

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: And what else did we get to do?

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: Oh yeah, we got the matching

outfits today going on.

So we, we really, one of the things that I thought was really interesting

and I didn't realize this until I started doing even more research

is the Donutique piece of it.

Was that inspired by your, your donut meetings at the office

or was it the other way around?

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: That's a very good question.

So let's back up and I'll give you a little bit of context and history.

Um, so for those that are listening, I'm Stephany.

I'm the founder and CEO of a company called Orum, and I'm

so thrilled to be here today.

Orum transforms payment technology for businesses, and we do that

by revolutionizing payment speed, payment certainty.

And payment orchestration.

And that's all done via our unified API based solutions.

And we'll talk more about what all that means.

Um, but yes, at Orum, we are a remote company and we use a fun little

thing in our Slack called donut.

And it automatically randomly pairs you with somebody else in the company.

So once a week you have a 15 minute donut chat.

Um, and that actually started five years ago when we started figuring out

how to build a remote first company.

We raised institutional capital in the spring of 2020.

I was barefoot in my five year old's bedroom, and every other VC out there was

also sitting at home somewhere figuring out how this was all going to work.

Um, so that's the genesis of Donuts at Work.

Here in Money 20/20, using Donutique to build the Orum Cafe.

First of all, credit to our brilliant, uh, leader, Greg, who runs commercial at Orum.

Um, but we do that because we want to have a really rich emotional

connection with our customers, our prospects, our financial partners.

And everybody's here looking for something that's during the

middle of the day, not alcohol.

Um, they're looking for a way to connect, unwind, be joyful.

And I don't know, I couldn't think of a lot of better things besides

donuts to bring that to life.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: So we talked about, you know, starting

as a certified financial planner, you've had a couple of detours of some,

a little bit of fun in the middle.

Um, help us understand, you know, how did you go from the financial planner space?

You spent some time at a Soul Cycle.

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: I did do that.

Yes.

And then,

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: and then, then Orum, like help us

understand that, that not so linear path

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: Yes, the journey's not entirely obvious, and I bet

for a lot of entrepreneurs this is true.

Um, I did start my career as a certified financial planner, and

as you said, I am the daughter of an immigrant who came to the U.

S.

with nothing, and most of my life was colored by understanding what it's

like to have to decide which bill to pay, or what it's like to wait.

Sometimes weeks, months for receivables to come into the small business

that my parents were running.

I just really like colored the way I think about the impact

I want to have in my career.

So I became a CFP and actually started focused in the advice ecosystem.

So how do we help others who have less have more?

Initially that was for retirement planning and then ultimately that was

for financial planning broadly and I was very fortunate to work in In

a technology role that allowed me to not just think about the impact to

people, but the scale technology could provide to providing financial advice.

And while I was at LearnVest, um, building what became the sort of IP

for the company, so I'm the principal inventor and patent holder for the

intellectual property we created.

I had this really big aha, which is, you can get financial

advice to the masses now.

And you can get people excited to save and invest even small amounts of money.

But what they're challenged by isn't behavior change.

They're challenged by a fundamental flaw in the infrastructure

that serves financial services.

And so people would look you in the eye and say, I'd love to put money

in a high yield savings, but I can't because I need to move it back to

my checking account on a Saturday.

If I have an emergency, I can't get there fast enough.

And it's heartbreaking to think that, 2 trillion dollars sits idle

in checking accounts for consumers, let alone what happens in businesses

that could be optimized to build wealth, to generate savings.

And so my insight was derived from being a financial planner, and that is why I

ultimately built Orum so that we could build infrastructure that's going to

fundamentally change financial services.

But yes, there was a left turn, and

I went to SoulCycle.

Um, because as I thought about my career, and I hope for those

listening, This resonates.

I realized that I'd really only done two things.

I'd done digital and that was powerful at the time and I'd done financial

advice, but I'd never touched the supply chain hardware physical goods.

I'd never understood what it's like to run a brick and mortar business.

And so when I was leaving FinTech for a minute I was looking for three things.

One, I wanted to be domiciled in New York City because I've

been doing a lot of travel.

Um, And actually, before that, my real number one was I wanted

to work for another female CEO.

At LearnVest, I'd been working for a female CEO.

I wanted to find that again.

I wanted to be domiciled in New York.

And I wanted to work in a category I could get excited about.

And so it led me to SoulCycle, taught me a lot.

And as I turned to the next corner, to build Orum, a handful of folks that I

built relationships with on the team and as partners through that experience

ended up coming as early employees.

And now a fair number of, uh, two members of the executive team and a couple

other folks within the company are from the SoulCycle era, which is totally

wild because we all were able to turn our curiosity into something that's

now building an absolutely incredible new foundation for financial services.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: What was that, that moment that like when,

when you're at SoulCycle and you're ready to That decision point, I, I, I'm

ready to, to take this next journey.

I'm ready to solve this problem of money movement.

What was that?

What was that like?

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: Well, it was certainly an interesting moment

in time because I had always kind of seen myself as a great number two.

And I imagine a lot of people can appreciate the feeling of imposter

syndrome thinking, I'm not a founder.

You know, I'm not really going to go start a company by myself.

Um, and, you know, I am not only a female founder, which, you know, realistically

does mean that there's less venture capital available, but I'm also a

non technical founder, so my biggest hurdle to overcome was, I don't write

code myself, I can think technically, uh, but my strengths are in commercial

and go to market and product and other things, so it was intimidating, and what

really pushed me was somebody saying this is a worth building idea, and if

you want to continue to have impact, And I kind of went back to my roots.

In financial advice, we could reach millions of Americans.

Um, by building infrastructure that powers the way money moves, you can

reach hundreds of millions of American wallets, businesses, and consumers.

And that is what ultimately tipped me to say, Impostor

Syndrome, you go back in a box.

I'll get a coach for that, which I did, and I love my coach.

And I took the leap of faith.

Um, That said, I really encourage folks who are kind of at the

precipice of thinking about founding a company to consider three things.

One is, are you set up financially to stop getting a paycheck?

Like, do you have an emergency savings?

Are you ready to go out and do six, nine, 12 months without drawing a salary,

because that may be what it takes.

I think being financially prepared is really important.

Um, number two, are you thinking about something that you want

to spend 10 years on Right.

We're five years into Orum.

And people are just starting to know who Orum is.

By the time you hear of a successful company, they're ten years in.

And so if your idea doesn't compel you, then you're going to

find yourself really struggling.

And the third, and I think really important thing is,

is there a venture scale?

You mentioned how much money we've raised.

I'm very proud of that.

It's also terrifying to think about the expectations to return that

money, not times two, not times three.

People want exponential returns.

And the reason I'm convicted that Orum is venture scale is because when you

think about money movement, which last year there was 80 trillion dollars

moved via ACH, our 50 year old workhorse system, 1 percent of all money movement

was on the new real time systems.

If you think about transforming payment technology for businesses, the

impact of taking that 80 trillion and making it faster, smarter, data rich.

It's six times bigger than Visa's global business last year.

That's how I know that it's a venture backable, scalable thing.

And it is sometimes slow and sometimes hard because we work in a regulated space.

But it is infinitely worth it.

And it will drive me for another ten years, if not longer.

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You've talked about the impact to the consumer wallet.

You've talked about infrastructure.

Help us understand Who is the target that you're, you're trying to serve directly?

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: Well, let's break it down into products and then

we'll talk about who uses those products.

So today, under our unified API solutions, we have one product

called Deliver, which is our unique direct to Fed money movement API.

It moves money 24 7, 365, and it's got RTP, FedNow, ACH, same to ACH, wires,

and, uh, New visa direct products in it so that you can use a simple solution to

actually think about payment optimization and payment orchestration, right?

So we can do things like offer bank rate pricing because we work directly

with the federal reserve bank, right?

We don't go through layers and layers of technology with other folks.

We do every available processing windows.

We speed up the time that money is available to move and we optimize when

businesses want to move money fast or slow depending on what they are solving

for Um, and then we offer something really unique, which is that you can track

transfers down to the penny in our portal.

So you can settle, reconcile, and always know where the transfer or

the dollars are at any given time.

And folks love our products because they can integrate in two weeks or less.

So understanding kind of how we operate is important because then

we can talk about who buys it.

Let me tell you a little bit about Verify and then we'll come back to the the

buyer Verify was born out of our business customers telling us over and over again

that bank account verification is a broken solution that they aren't able to use

because in the business world, folks that run PNLs don't have the banking log in to

use something like plaid or an aggregator.

And they don't want to think about whether or not it's two o'clock on

Friday before NACHA window cutoff, right?

They just know they need to pay suppliers and pay vendors and make payroll.

And so Verify allows us to take what we built in deliver and actually take

advantage of building on top of, not just using money movement, but building on

top of faster payment systems like RTP and FedNow to communicate in the real

time networks about the account status.

So we check the status.

We check if the owner is engaged and then we can confirm whether or

not the name on the account matches.

So when you put those two things together, you have payment

speed and payment certainty.

Now, we spend a lot of time in lending and billing.

And the reason for that is because those are two places where you find

the problem that I call time to money.

Right?

There is a reason why having faster and 24 7 availability of

money movement is really critical.

Right?

So in lending Issuing the loan to the lendee, the recipient of funds, shouldn't

be gated to nine to five on Monday.

That's just not how the world works anymore.

Um, and there's so many iterations of lending, for example, that are in

B2B, where the magnitude of impact to move funds quickly is very meaningful.

And on the accounts payable and receivable side and billing,

we see the same thing, right?

There's an objective to better align payables and receivables

and not have to send out.

You know, with 3 to 7 days lead time, a payment that's no longer going to

sit in your account and earn interest.

You can actually maximize both the way you think about the interest rates

you're accumulating the dollars that you have in the bank, the time in

which you make payables and so much of financial services looks different when

you don't have to ask the question how fast or how am I going to move money?

And you can just simply say it needs to be instant and we'll take care of the rest.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: That really comes into the point of

really looking at what the cashflow management side of the house, like

how, how do I maximize the usage of it?

How do I get it to where I need to be?

You hit on all of those different things, but as, as I, I want to drill back in,

we've talked about the products, right?

Do we Verify in the bank accounts?

We're moving the money all, all as well.

Um, and you, you've also mentioned that it's developer centric.

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: Indeed it is.

So

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: who are these developers that are looking at

these APIs to do this and, and where's it getting injected into the ecosystem?

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: Well, the, the thing to think about is that there's

really three constituents, right?

There's the buyer, which is typically somebody in a product role who is thinking

about having a payment experience or a money movement experience embedded

in their products and solutions.

And so that's the person that typically comes to the table, finds Orum, and

is analyzing how to bring something new into their product suite so that

it can be differentiated, so they can lower costs, there's a number

of things they're solving for.

The person that buys the product also has to align with the

person that's going to integrate.

And so yes, we are developer friendly.

However, we also offer no code options.

Because many, uh, financial services companies who are not fintechs, right?

Um, where a lot of the concentration of lending and billing sits, are spitting out

a NACHA file, and that's all they have.

And they're probably not going to invest in technical change.

So we can take that NACHA file in our no code option, and actually break apart

all the components of the information supplied, and route it on faster payments.

So we're not only interoperable with RTP and FedNow, we're also

configurable in a way that doesn't require engineering work, right?

But if there are engineers, we want those constituents to be excited that they

can literally build an integration to Orum and set up a full multi bank, multi

rail payment stack in two weeks or less.

And then the third constituent is what I call the user, which is somebody who has

to track, settle, reconcile, organize, run reports, think about the treasury

and payment operations components of having payments embedded in a business.

And at the end of the day, that person becomes infinitely more important as you

look ahead to what's on your road map, how you're going to do renewals, right?

So it's not just the buyer and the process up front, but it's really for us deeply

embedding with our customers, listening to their feedback, and ensuring that

all three constituents have maximized the time and the effort they spend and

have gotten something really valuable that they can ideally point back to

the business and say, We've cut costs because we have bank rate pricing.

We've identified a new way to monetize with faster payments.

And Oh, by the way, we were able to move engineers out from underneath

managing three or four different bank integrations, um, to new projects

that generate growth for the business.

And we did all that without changing.

In fact, enhancing the way we move money.

And so for me, that's exactly the combination we're looking for.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: So.

All of this sounds fantastic, but we know that none of this stuff goes super smooth.

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: Well, you say that, but you haven't integrated

to Orum, so, you know, bring it on.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: Well, I mean, talking about the, all the

different legacy rails and some of the newer rails, even though they're newer,

they still have a lot of the same baggage as, as the legacy platforms and a lot of

the different ways that it's looked at and managed and, um, Um, especially when

you start thinking the bank risk side of the house, they still want to treat it

similarly to the, to the legacy pieces.

What would you say was the, the biggest gotcha that you had when you were going

through the process of putting all these different pieces together, something that

you didn't expect to be as complicated or as difficult as it turned out to be.

And then we'll, we'll start there.

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: I mean, there's been many surprises.

I think all entrepreneurs would tell you the way they think it's going to

go and the way it goes are different.

Specific to your question, though, I think that's what's been probably most

interesting and you're very right, right?

The way that you send an ACH and the way a bank receives that is very

different than the way you send a wire, which is very different than

the way you do an RTP, which is also different than how you do FedNow.

And it's gotten increasingly more complicated.

And so the fact that we've We have spent many years building the

logic to think about the smartest, best way to move the transaction.

And we've optimized for payment rails that are very nascent, right?

There's very, very minimal utilization still of the newer systems, not

because they're not valuable, but because it is a sea change to move

11, 500 financial institutions from one way of working to another.

So right now, um, the RTP network's reporting about a

million transactions a day.

So about 30 million transactions a month.

So you can imagine that being first movers on a system that itself

hasn't matured has taught us a lot.

Like what happens if there's an outage?

Is there an outage at the RTP level or is it at the bank level?

How do you know if the account you want to interact with is actually

eligible for an instant payment?

Well, that's why we built Verify.

So there's been a lot of learnings just around incorporating the actual

specific mechanics And right now, I would say, yes, we are all seeing the

benefits of faster payments, but we're not realizing yet is all the things that

the Fed built into FedNow and TCH built into RTP, which is the messaging layer.

And so, as we're going to, we're going to talk crystal ball later,

but as I look ahead, I think that's a very important part.

It's fun and sexy to talk about faster.

It's really important to talk about seven days a week with no holidays and 24 7.

But what becomes critical is the combination of moving money with data.

And that's why I think these networks are, they are absolutely the future.

When I talk about kind of the sea change that's happening, I often think

about, well, you know, how long ago was it that Uber started hit the market?

And if before Uber, I said to you like, Hey, Tedd, it's going to be completely

normal to have a stranger in a strange car that you've never been in, pick

you up at your house, have your phone number and know where you live and

drive you somewhere, you would've thought that was absolutely bananas.

And now it is the most common best way.

I mean, I don't know what's happening in the rental car market,

but it can't be pretty, right?

Because Uber's really just made it so simple.

And I think that's what's happening, but that was 10, 15 years ago.

Right?

So you've got to kind of think about as we're changing things,

the benefits are very obvious.

Um, and we're going to continue to push boundaries.

It's why we spend so much time partnering, um, with TCH and with the fed.

And We're going to keep making sure distribution and access is easy.

Today you have to go to a bank, that bank has to have APIs.

If you're lucky, there's a select few.

Jamie Dimon funds a very rich technology budget because he can

not that many banks have that.

And so we want to be the partner that allows access in a really simple way so

that businesses who are building something can take advantage of the ways in which

you can optimize money movement and they don't have to go spend 2 million dollars

in 2 years Figuring out how it works.

That's my job.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: Well, and you talk about the optimization, you

know, one of the discussions that, that I've had a couple of times as we look

at the faster payments and we look at the, the push to card functionalities

and, you know, when do we fall back on ACH and all these different decision,

decision points in here to try and figure out what's the best way.

What has Orum done to help those folks that are sitting on the

other side trying to figure out, do I, how do I get it there now?

How do I get it there later today?

Like, how, how are you helping them make the decisions of, do they have to

figure out what they're going to use?

They actually don't.

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: That's the beauty of it.

So think about Amazon, right?

Same day delivery.

Your packages now literally come Saturday and Sunday.

And sometimes they come between like 5 and 7 a.

m.

Like you have so many ways in which you can get a package.

And what Amazon did is they took FedEx, UPS, Postal Service, Oh, by

the way, they put their blue van, little Trojan horse out there, and

then they hired a bunch of drivers to, like, close the loop on final mile.

And as a consumer, all you care about is whether or not the package is going

to arrive on time and how certain, like, how fast and how certain.

That's how we should be thinking about money movement.

It's my job, as we build Orum, to think about what are the rules that live within

each of the networks, and what can you definitely do and definitely not do.

When can you reverse a transaction?

What if you send a payroll file and it's got an error?

Well, ECH lets you, like, fix that.

But RTP doesn't.

So you're not just optimizing for speed.

You're thinking about size of transaction.

Who's sending?

Who's receiving?

What time of day is it?

What's the, like, purpose of the transfer?

Um, have we had confirmation from the payee that they know the money's coming?

I mean, there's many, many things that you're optimizing for.

And via our API or our no code option.

You, it is as simple as saying ASAP if speed is important to

you and we will do the rest.

So orchestration is a big part of our business because nobody wants to have

to build the decisions that go into increasing complexity of managing

risk, speed, cost, reversibility.

And the rule book for NACHA is, I don't know how many pages it sits on my desk.

It's, you know, five inches thick.

That's the kind of stuff you have.

It used to be bigger.

It used to be bigger, right?

They've like worked on it.

So unless you have a chatbot with AI like scanning that and telling

you the answer to everything, which certainly is not the case, you have

to really fundamentally know how to operate every network differently.

And I just think it's too high of a barrier of entry and too high cost for

every single financial services company to have to try to figure that out.

And that's exactly why we've done what we've done.

And the way we think about it right now.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: I'm curious to get your perspective, you know,

I've sat down and worked with a number of treasury management professionals and

a lot of times it's less about the speed and the ease and more about the cost and

as you called it certainty of delivery.

How are you, how are you delivering the understanding of

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Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: Okay.

You know, it's such an interesting question because in treasury management,

you're often working with corporate funds.

So you're sometimes asking and answering different questions than you might be

within the rest of the business where you might be handling your customers funds.

So I do think that sometimes there's a differentiation between those two.

Um, I think cost is pretty transparent, right?

Um, we offer bank rate pricing, which means the way that we determine pricing is

to coordinate with our financial partners and the Fed in particular and TCH.

And so what we're not trying to do is obscure and hide costs.

What we are trying to do is make sure that there's value and people can understand if

you want it faster, it takes a little bit more time and money to make that happen.

And so as we've made that investment in the faster payment system.

You know, it's a couple cents more than an ACH, but here's what's great about it.

It travels with data.

It's certain.

It works at night and on the holidays.

So people are willing to pay for that certainty.

Um, And in other cases, as you mentioned, sometimes you want to

slow down one leg of the transaction.

Like you want to let it settle, hang out in your account for

a day or two, maybe a week.

And that's the beauty of our system is you can break up your debits and credits and

you can think about them very differently.

So we're thinking about optimizing exactly what treasury managers,

payment operations, leaders, um, and business folks need to think about.

So it's not just.

Move it faster, right?

It's really a very complex equation of optimization and orchestration

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: So recently you've made a couple

of announcements, um, for some partnerships, help, help us understand

what drives those types of partnerships.

One, one, I believe is with a bank.

Um, and, and like, what, what, how, how do you choose the partnerships?

I mean, at, at, at a leadership level, how do you, how do you all.

Come together and go, yeah, that's the right, that's the

right partnership for us.

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: Well, we're very careful and selective

about who we partner with.

So I'll start with that.

Having grown up in regulated financial services my whole career, I know, and

I knew when I started Orum that we needed to make very careful choices

because we wouldn't get a second chance.

And when you're establishing a brand and you're establishing

trust with your customers, it's easy to have a great website.

It's easy to have great products.

And the minute something goes wrong, it's very easy to have a customer say,

I don't want to work with you anymore.

And so our partners are very much an important part of thinking about our SLAs,

how fast, how long, how's our uptime.

Um, and they're also really critical in terms of how they're regulated,

where they spend time in the market.

You are the company you keep, right?

So we want a select group of partners that are, um, premium in every

way, because it is important to us.

That we don't make any decisions that could risk the way somebody's

trust gets built with us.

Because moving money is the most high value, high risk

endeavor you could take on.

Because we're talking about payroll.

We're talking about wages.

We're talking about insurance dollars.

We're talking about healthcare providers getting paid.

Right?

And I just take that very seriously.

And that's colored everything we do from a partnership's perspective.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: I'm not going to go all the

way into our crystal ball.

We'll end with that piece of it.

But I do want to understand your perspective on how the future of

payments, the future of fintech is getting impacted by the regulatory environment.

As you mentioned, you came from a highly regulated environment to begin with.

How are you seeing the future?

The announcements, uh, recently we just had the announcement of the,

of 1033, it finally got released.

How are you seeing things like that impacting the, the way in which

people approach these products?

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: Well, regulation is sometimes on your side

and sometimes a little bit more of a headwind, and it sort of depends on the

political environment, what regulator, what part of the landscape you're in.

What I think is particularly interesting right now is that many different types

of regulators, um, not exclusively the CFPB who put out 1033, are endeavoring

to figure out how to increase, um, certainty and manage risk between novel

innovative concepts being built by fintechs and the banking system that

supports their ability to do a lot of that, whether it's hold deposits or

transfer money and issue credit cards.

So, I think we're still in the early innings of what will be probably a fairly

big amount of regulatory sea change.

But those regulators don't always have to coordinate efforts, and

they certainly probably won't.

With 1033 specifically, I think it's a double click into, um, something

that's existed for a while unofficially, which is, hey, at this bank, where

I've put my trust and my dollars and probably my direct deposit for

my payroll, I have data locked up.

And for a variety of reasons, I might want to give that information to somebody else.

Maybe it's for buying a car and getting a loan, and there's cash flow based

underwriting information that would prove that I pay my bills on time

and be additive to my credit score.

So I think it's an unlock that is going to, in this case, be a propellant to

have more consumer rights, and that's what the CFPB is always thinking

about, with regard to access to data.

I think we're probably going to be looking at things evolving, like Reg E,

which is specifically for ACH and ACH debit transactions, potentially needing

to evolve because it's highly abused, and it leads to a substantial amount of

fraud and cost in the payment system.

So I'm interested to see where all of this goes, and I'm by no means a

regulatory affairs expert, but we do ensure that we spend a lot of time

with our counsel at Paul Hastings.

Chris Daniel and team keeping current, um, and making sure that we're in

lockstep with our financial partners, their regulators, which spans everything

from the OCC to the FDIC and beyond.

And just really putting in the work to work with the system and not against it.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: Yeah.

I was, I was really wanting to understand, like, how are you seeing it in the

beneficial, not, not the detrimental side, but the beneficial, how are

you, how are you seeing that moving?

Orum and the technology forward.

Is it opening up new opportunities?

Is it in a direction that is helping you see things maybe in

a slightly different way that you thought may not have been possible?

And it's gotten increasingly more complicated.

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: You know, I'm always eager to

see how we react to final regs.

And so, you know, this was a particularly fast moving set of regulations.

There are others that are being worked on now that won't maybe move as quickly.

I think Rohit had a timeline and an objective and a really clear

remit to like get this done.

And yeah, I think it's probably going to open up access.

So I see it as a, you know, generally a positive thing.

I'm interested to see, you know, as the crypto landscape evolves and

stable coins, I'm sure you're not reading my notes because that's where

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: I'm going next.

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: I'm certainly not, but we're sharing a brain, Tedd.

I love it.

You know, there's so much of value to be had in stable coins.

And so I'm very interested to see how, you know, let's say like the FDIC

and, uh, SEC started to rethink some of their initial concerns with crypto

and how we can take advantage of the blockchain capability and the sort of.

Stable coin assets.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a future state in which a stable

coins, a part of the Orum back end.

I don't know when that might be, but it's not crazy, right?

Particularly for things like cross border.

So it's just a very interesting time.

And in every moment when it feels chaotic, because regulators are feeling a certain

way, it just means there's opportunity.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: So we'll go ahead and make that shift over

to, you know, the discussion of, you know, how are, When you're looking at

all these different technologies, I mean, we've had the discussions, um,

throughout the industry, uh, off and on and up and down and everything kind

of ebbs and flows as it normally does.

But when we look at any sort of cryptocurrency, any sort of

blockchain technologies, you just mentioned that you see stable coin

as being a potential item that gets added or gets used more frequently.

But what do you see the overarching impact of these?

Blockchain technologies to the industry and and how how you all are

looking at approaching the market

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: Well, the blockchain piece in particular is super

interesting I think especially if you are looking at folks like what Figure

is building from a HELOC perspective So if you're getting a home equity line of

credit the way they're thinking about the sort of provenance of information

within the loan itself That is a big game changer from an infrastructure perspective

to think about where lending might go Um Stable coins are interesting because,

well, I can see a future in which we factor them in and probably we're not

done innovating on ways to move money.

I don't think FedNow and RTP were like the last frontier.

Um, I think what is true is that inside the U.

S., currently, the need for stable coins as a form of money movement is lesser.

Because we're lucky to have the U.

S.

dollar be stable and reliable.

And where you see stable coins being really valuable is speed

of money movement cross border.

And or currency stabilization, um, and providing the ability to, for people

to hold a USD who live outside the U S so that's not on our horizon today

to go cross border, because I can only see so far into the future and with

80 trillion dollars needing to go from ACH to fully optimize, I got years

and years of work ahead of me, but, um, we believe that as new forms of

money movement become relevant to our use cases, we'll just build them in.

And like we did last year with FedNow, we added it.

None of our customers had to make any changes to take advantage of it, and

we just automatically incorporated into the waterfall of logic.

And that's what we'll continue to do as there are more types

of different payment mechanisms.

And I sure hope we're not done innovating.

We're just at the very beginning, I think.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: I do want to jump into really understanding

some of the leadership lessons that you've learned during this.

You'd mentioned, you know, getting the coach and, and really

kind of working through that.

I'm a great number two, um, piece of it.

What are, what would you say are like the top three things that you've, you've

pulled out of it from your transition through each one of these roles?

And heck, even over the last five years, Oh, I've learned

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: so much.

So let's start with having a coach, right?

Um, I think sometimes, Particularly startup founders find it unusual.

Like, what would you do with a coach?

And like, how does it work?

And if you look at the best athletes, Tiger Woods, name whoever you want, right?

Um, they all train, they all work to be better at the thing they're good at.

And as a leader, you're never done working on the things that will make

you a great leader because the business you're running is going to change

if not every six months, every nine or 12 or 18, because you're growing.

And so I think having a coach that is versed in leadership and specifically

in many cases, the entrepreneurial journey is a massive unlock.

I've been working with my coach, Steve, for, um, the better part of

three and a half, almost four years.

So not since day one.

And I wish I had known him on day one.

I think I would have made a lot of decisions differently.

Um, so coaching is really important to me and I recommend it to all entrepreneurs

because that person is fully independent.

They don't have a financial outcome based on equity, and they're not married to

you, and they're not your mom, and they're not on your team, and they can really be

objective and be looking out just for you.

And I've learned a lot about board management, about how I handle my imposter

syndrome, about just continuing to put in the work, and some of the best things

that come out of that is that I'm a better listener, and I'm more patient, And I ask

questions without questioning the person.

And so many things that I will continue to work on, but I'm

really excited, have become natural as I've just put in the work.

Um, number two, I have a 911 list.

Like I by no means know all the answers.

I mean, when I took a left turn and went to build bikes that go nowhere, I did

not know anything about the business.

So I had to ask a lot of people for a lot of help.

And your networks are a really valuable asset, and people love when

you call on them for their expertise.

So build a 911 list of people that, like, will have seen around the corner.

They know what's next.

They have the domain knowledge.

They've been in your shoes, but they've done it twice before and you haven't.

And I just find that is one of the most powerful things.

One day I was trying to study a problem about, like, how do ATM machines,

when you put your debit card in, know that it's your bank account?

And so I was like, I need to find the answer.

And of course I wouldn't know, so you can only Google so much.

So I called on my 911 list and somebody said, Hey, meet this person.

They run the biggest ATM network in the country and they'll answer your question.

And that's so satisfying because it speeds up my ability to find the answer.

And for that person that I'm asking, they're delighted to

tell you and help you out, right?

Like give and you will get back.

Um, and then I think the third leadership component that I talk a

lot about is a team is not a family.

Orum is not my family.

I love Orum.

I love working with the team.

But teams are very different.

Family you would do anything for.

You would make room for anyone.

You would bend over backwards.

You just behave very differently when you think you're a family.

And a family makes it sometimes too personal.

This is business.

I run a company.

It is a for profit entity.

We need to make money.

I need to be smart about the bottom line.

And decisions we have to make sometimes are really hard.

Sometimes it's not working with a teammate.

That doesn't make them a bad person.

It just means it's not a fit right now.

And the more as an employee you can see yourself as on the team, you can remember

you have to earn your spot on that team.

You have to play your spot well.

You got to stay in your spot.

And if something changes and you don't like it, it's not personal.

So having that mindset that we're connected and a team is a very powerful

force of nature is so important to me.

But remembering every day, it's not a family.

And when I have to make hard decisions or managers and people

leaders have to make hard decisions.

We don't want it to be about that familial component.

Um, and I know that's a little bit controversial and a little bit different

than how some people think about it.

Um, but that's worked really well for me.

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Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: Compassion.

Empathy.

Everybody's human.

Somebody's going through a hard time, they're having a bad day.

Somebody may have had a death in the family or be sick.

You don't know everything about somebody at work just

because they walk in the door.

And you won't know everything about them, although you might know different things

because you work in a remote setting.

I tend to know more about people's home lives than I probably would have.

We certainly see if somebody has like painted the wall or moved locations.

You see people's kids.

And having the compassion and empathy is critical.

I think it's very important to check in, how are you doing?

. That's a different question than like, you might normally get asked

if you just walked in the door.

So we do really think about employee experience, employee engagement.

I think engagement's a great proxy.

If you are engaged, that means that you understand what

you're supposed to be doing.

You're giving the autonomy to do it well.

And you're getting feedback that it's going the way you thought it should.

And if you're not getting those signals from your people leader, it is on

you as an employee to go find out.

Hey, are we aligned?

Here's what I'm thinking about it.

Does that match?

So, you know, there's no shortage of challenges in remote, but

there are some real benefits.

And we've made this a feature, not a bug.

Um, and I think just ultimately having compassion and, and being professional

in every setting is really critical.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: how do you take that into the

decision making process on what to do, when to do it, how to do who

needs to do it, help us understand from your leadership perspective.

how do you lead the people to do the right things at the right

time with the right resources?

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: Well, two answers.

One is I hired a VP of people when we were 20.

So a lot of people do that when you're like 80 or a hundred or 200.

Um, she was head of people at the time.

She's since been promoted, and that is my way of investing in making sure

that we make the right decisions to have the people at Orum be the right

people at the right time for right now.

And that's a nuanced thing, because as the business changes, what we need changes.

So I started with that, and then I come back to just thinking about, hey, if

we're gonna move in a new direction, launch a new product, build something

different, hire a team, you have to kind of go back to first principles,

which is to understand, do we have anybody already here that fits the bill?

Do we need to hire from outside?

Can we build a system that promotes from within?

And I try to really take advantage of the talent base we've already developed,

with subject matter expertise and domain knowledge, and use that to our advantage.

So you'll find that people at Orum sometimes move teams, or they get promoted

in a different area, and that's us taking advantage of really exceptional talent,

but also realizing, like, when we don't know something, and we do need to hire

from outside, we know how to go find that.

Um, and so it's, you know, it's always a balance, but having somebody who

really focuses on people strategy unlocks me to do what I'm good at,

which is to think about having great financial partners, great commercial

partners, great investors, and it unlocks her to ensure that the team is

always as best it can be, optimized to do the right work at the right time.

So that means thinking about org design, it means thinking about

employee growth, it means thinking about great people leaders.

Um, and so there's a lot for me that goes into it.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: Well, I do want to dive in.

Um, and of course I had to bring the crystal ball with me.

What I want you to do is I want you to look into this fun crystal ball here

and, and, and tell us what is it you see in the next five to 10 years in

FinTech and how does it look different?

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: Oh man, that is a really wild question.

So I think in five to 10 years time, as I said, kind of earlier in the show,

you'll What are the biggest changes is that when we move money, which is an

increasingly important part of fintech?

We will have data Embedded in a way that today.

We don't we will be able to send an accounts payable Or receivable,

you know invoice inside of the payment mechanism So the kinds of

software that need to get built but today our big businesses like bill.

com Might look fundamentally different.

They might not exist at all because the model will be changing And I think

the way you manufacture and distribute financial services products on new

infrastructure is going to change in ways we almost can't imagine.

But if you just go back to if we only had data while we were doing

a payment, what would we build?

That is the unlock of taking faster payments from today, just being about

speed or in some cases, you know, time and day of the week and really making a

transformational part of fintech I wish I could see further in the specifics, but

I know that data with money movement is going to be the game changer for every

FinTech who might not need to do certain things the way they're doing them today.

And certainly I think our kids, so maybe not 10 years from now, but

you know, in the future, they're going to look at us and be like,

sorry, you use your account number.

What is that?

They're going to pay with their email.

They're going to pay with their phone number.

Okay.

And so the Zelle directory model, while still also early, is a great signal

on the ease by which we're going to start to think about transacting,

taking down barriers of entry, and ultimately also preventing bad

actors from getting into the system.

You know, it always made me laugh, like, the most critical thing about your bank

account, which is the account number, is printed on your check, which is

literally a physical thing you could lose.

Losing my debit card is way lower risk.

I can just immediately say I lost it.

Losing a blank check much harder.

So I just think we're going to go through so many kinds of changes

all tied back to data that can increase payment speed and payment

certainty and help us build better.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: If you were to give another fintech

founder one piece of advice that they could, that's the only piece of

advice they could take with them going forward, what would it be and why?

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: I say this advice a lot, and I think it's

way easier to say than it is to do.

Um, be very, very focused in the beginning.

Because fintech has more barriers to entry from a regulatory perspective,

and because you have to meet certain criteria to be in financial services,

um, don't spread yourself thin.

Hone your first product.

If you're focused on selling to lenders, . Sell to a hundred lenders before you

sell to somebody that's not a lender and just stay steadfast in working with your

board In the fact that not all revenue is a good idea Good revenue will help you

unlock product market fit and the way that you get to scale Like a Chime or a Cash

App is to be Literally laser focused in your core customer and your core product

for as absolutely long as you can Which means frequently saying no You To the

temptation to build more things faster.

And I think that's where, in fact, in FinTech in particular, you can

get over your skis very quickly and not realize that you have too

thin of a layer of compliance or not enough, you know, support for

something in the fraud ecosystem.

And so those are the things that I, I really come back to over and over again,

because I think it's, what's going to make for the ability for you to quickly

figure out, do I have product market fit?

And if I do, then how do I start to scale it?

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: So that leads me to a different question.

It's like, how, how do you know when you have a company,

not a product or a feature,

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: such a timely question, because so much of

AI right now feels like features and even, you know, over the last five

or 10 years, a lot of, you know, tech things have become features, not

companies go back to venture scale.

Can you build a business with this?

That's going to get you to 200 to 300 million dollars of revenue,

at which point you could consider an IPO or an alternative exit.

And when you're standing there proud of yourself getting to your first one or two

million in run rate revenue, do the math.

What do I have to believe on number of customers, on cost of

acquisition, on, you know, which incumbent might get there first?

Um, and be really mindful of how easy it might be to replicate

the thing that you're working on.

Because if that's true, it's likely a feature, not a, not a business.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: We, we had, I've had this discussion.

It was interesting.

I was at another conference and, and we just started to see as, as I

was sitting down with a handful of founders of their companies and most

of them are, are, are very deep.

Um, like an Orum, you know, you guys have a lot of function, a lot of

feature, a lot of value gets provided.

And that was the conversation that we were having was realistically five or six of

these people that were presenting their company probably should just get together

and,

and build a singular end to end product that can actually service versus

just being that one little piece.

And And then the reason why I bring that up is you talked about

getting super, super focused.

And I think there are cases that you can get so focused that

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: right.

The market's too small.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: The market is just too small.

No matter no matter how much you think.

Well, this everybody could use this.

Well, yes, everybody could use this in this thing.

In that thing.

Yeah.

And this company in this product in this feature on I think that's that's big.

The biggest piece that, That I've been seeing over, over the last,

I would say probably over the last two years it's been really bad.

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: I think you see a lot of that because

of how capital was deployed.

And so it's kind of very obvious right now, which means there's probably

going to be some great consolidation.

I'd also kind of add the finer point, which is if you can land with a wedge

and in a year's time expand to another feature that's going to drive more

revenue and lock in that customer.

The way we think about that is, bring.

all of your payment business to us and we'll continue to grow what we

offer to you so that if you were already working on, you know, let's

say, um, ACH somewhere else and you wanted to start on RTP with us, you'd

be incented to move everything over.

It's a better system.

So landing and expanding, increasing contract value, adding something

like Verify, which we did almost a hundred percent of our customers.

Looked to us and said, Oh, you've added a thing.

I wasn't able to solve on my own.

I want to buy that.

So it leverages you to charge more, own more share of wallet,

um, increase net revenue retention.

So those are the things that if you start narrow and focused, you should hear

good signal on the necessity for your buyer to continue to work with you and

buy more of the thing you're selling.

And so for me, it often just comes down to monetization and consumption.

And are you thinking about it from a growth perspective

in the right way over time?

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: Stephany, I appreciate you sitting down

today, especially ending on that note.

Uh, this has been very, very helpful to understand where Orum's going,

how it fits the different pieces and parts, especially the way that you've

approached building out the organization.

Uh, it's been very, very helpful.

And I really appreciate your time today.

Stephany Kirkpatrick, Orum: I loved being here.

Thanks so much.

Tedd Huff, Fintech Confidential: Thanks Steph.

And if you haven't already, go ahead, like, share, subscribe,

and go to fintechconfidential.

com and sign up to be notified when this and all the other

favorite episodes get released.

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