Website design goes hand-in-hand with your copy to make your sales page convert. 

Your design communicates your personality, it can evoke emotion, and it’s what ensures your dream clients can easily read your copy and know how to work with you. 

Octavia Elease, a Showit Website Design Partner and HoneyBook Pro, joins me to talk through some of the design considerations for building a sales page that converts. She also shares how you can showcase more of your personality through your website design.

01:38 — The role website design plays in showcasing your personality to attract right-fit clients 

03:05 — How to bring your authenticity to your website 

04:42 — Navigating the challenge to show up as your full self online 

10:22 — What makes up an effective sales page 

12:19 — What to include in your sales page design so it converts 

16:33 — Leveraging FAQs in the right way 

19:27 — How to make you calls to actions stand out 

👋 CONNECT WITH OCTAVIA ELEASE (SHE/HER)

Octavia Elease, a web designer and systems strategist, believes that blending strategy with personality is the key to success in business. She has assisted over 100 business owners in highlighting their value and showcasing their expertise through revitalized websites and workflows. Her ultimate goal is to help entrepreneurs create a strategic, connection-driven client experience. As a Showit Design Partner and HoneyBook Pro, she is committed to improving the online presence of the independent business community. In addition to being a passionate entrepreneur, Octavia is a devoted boy mom and devout believer. When she is not designing or teaching, you can catch her spending time with Mickey and friends at Disneyland.

Website: https://octaviaeleasedesigns.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/octaviaeleasedesigns/?hl=en

—

JOIN US INSIDE WORDS THAT CLICK

If "update my website copy" is sitting unchecked on your to do list, but you aren't quite ready to swing copywriting at a done-for-you price, Word That Click, a website copy course for photographers, is for you. In this self-study course, from What Sara Said, you will learn how to craft website pages that showcase who you are, your heart for what you do, and the value of your work.

As a special bonus, just for my podcast listeners use code oncall for $50 off the course at whatsarasaid.com/course

Join us inside Words that Click!

—

Discover your brand voice type, so that you can feel confident in standing out through your words.

Quiz

—

From a website copy polish or a custom long-form sales page to an email welcome or launch sequence, I’ll flex my done-for-you muscles and take on your top-priority to-dos in a half-day or full-day VIP experience.

VIP Days

—

🌐 Website

📸 Instagram

🎥 YouTube

Mentioned in this episode:

VIP Days

Octavia Elease: 00:00:00

this is where you break all those things down.

Octavia Elease: 00:00:01

You break down all the steps, and you make sure that you are telling them what

Octavia Elease: 00:00:05

they're going to receive, telling them what the, outcome could be, telling

Octavia Elease: 00:00:09

them what they're missing out on.

Octavia Elease: 00:00:11

So you're going to touch all of the points of a person, their

Octavia Elease: 00:00:14

pain points, their highs and lows.

Octavia Elease: 00:00:18

You are listening to The Copywriter On Call podcast.

Octavia Elease: 00:00:21

I'm your most Sarah Gillis copywriter, word, magic maker, and owner of

Octavia Elease: 00:00:25

what Sarah said on this podcast.

Octavia Elease: 00:00:28

You'll feel empowered to show up online in a way that has you saying, that's so me.

Octavia Elease: 00:00:33

Let's get started.

Sara Gillis: 00:00:35

Welcome back to another episode of The Copywriter On-Call podcast.

Sara Gillis: 00:00:39

I'm your host, Sarah Gillis, and I am logging some on-call hours today with a

Sara Gillis: 00:00:42

friend of mine show at Website Designer and HoneyBook Pro, Octavia Elise,

Sara Gillis: 00:00:47

I'm so excited to have you, Octavia.

Octavia Elease: 00:00:49

Thank you for having me.

Octavia Elease: 00:00:50

I'm so excited to be here.

Sara Gillis: 00:00:52

So let's dive in.

Sara Gillis: 00:00:54

I'm so excited to have you.

Sara Gillis: 00:00:56

I would love for you to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit

Sara Gillis: 00:00:58

about who you are and what you do.

Octavia Elease: 00:01:00

Awesome.

Octavia Elease: 00:01:01

Hi everyone.

Octavia Elease: 00:01:02

I am Octavia Elise, I am a short website designer and a HoneyBook Pro.

Octavia Elease: 00:01:07

Yay.

Octavia Elease: 00:01:08

I'm actually based here in Atlanta.

Octavia Elease: 00:01:10

I work with small business owners and creatives to help revitalize

Octavia Elease: 00:01:14

their websites and workflows with a little strategy and pixie dust.

Sara Gillis: 00:01:18

Love that.

Sara Gillis: 00:01:18

So we've met at a couple different conferences throughout the last few

Sara Gillis: 00:01:22

years and I've just loved getting to know you and it's been so fun

Sara Gillis: 00:01:26

because we've actually gotten to partner on some projects too.

Sara Gillis: 00:01:29

You on the creative end and me on the copy end, which has been really great.

Sara Gillis: 00:01:32

So love that so much.

Sara Gillis: 00:01:34

And.

Sara Gillis: 00:01:35

I'm so excited to have you here.

Sara Gillis: 00:01:36

So I would

Octavia Elease: 00:01:37

Yeah.

Sara Gillis: 00:01:38

start off with you and say, first, how do you think website design can

Sara Gillis: 00:01:43

help business owners attract their ideal clients and show up as themselves online?

Sara Gillis: 00:01:48

I know that's a big ask, right?

Sara Gillis: 00:01:50

But how do, how does website design play a role in that,

Octavia Elease: 00:01:54

Well, you know what?

Octavia Elease: 00:01:54

Lately I have been, telling people this, we have noticed an increase in

Octavia Elease: 00:02:00

the amount of times that social media goes down, Instagram and Facebook.

Octavia Elease: 00:02:05

All those things just seem to be having glitches lately, and If those things

Octavia Elease: 00:02:09

actually just shut down for days or weeks on end, for whatever reason, you only have

Octavia Elease: 00:02:14

your website left for people to find you.

Octavia Elease: 00:02:16

So it is super important that you actually invest time and energy

Octavia Elease: 00:02:20

into creating a website that's really going to talk to people.

Octavia Elease: 00:02:24

Talk to your ideal client, make sure you give them all the information.

Octavia Elease: 00:02:27

It just plays a huge part in letting people know that you are here,

Octavia Elease: 00:02:31

who you are, what you stand for.

Octavia Elease: 00:02:33

What your business stands for and how you can help them.

Octavia Elease: 00:02:36

I always tell people if you don't have a website, you're just,

Octavia Elease: 00:02:39

you have an expensive hobby, that you're just kind of partaking in.

Octavia Elease: 00:02:42

Because like I said, without social media, a lot of, business

Octavia Elease: 00:02:45

owners would be out of business.

Sara Gillis: 00:02:47

Yeah,

Octavia Elease: 00:02:47

they haven't taken the time to do their website or even

Octavia Elease: 00:02:51

taken the time to figure out who their ideal client is and how to

Octavia Elease: 00:02:54

actually speak to them, through their website because it's a lot different.

Octavia Elease: 00:02:57

The way you speak to people on your website and the way you speak to

Octavia Elease: 00:02:59

someone on social media can be very different sometimes, and you need to

Octavia Elease: 00:03:03

make sure that you're doing that, well.

Sara Gillis: 00:03:05

Yeah, absolutely.

Sara Gillis: 00:03:06

What do you think about showing up as authentically as you on your website?

Sara Gillis: 00:03:10

You talk about the difference sometimes between social media and website design

Sara Gillis: 00:03:14

and the copy that appears in both.

Sara Gillis: 00:03:17

I know that on social media I'm a lot more conversational and relaxed and I

Sara Gillis: 00:03:22

show up a little bit more polished on my website, but I would love to know your

Sara Gillis: 00:03:25

thoughts about that are we showing up differently depending on the platform?

Sara Gillis: 00:03:29

What do you think?

Octavia Elease: 00:03:30

I think there has to be a mixture.

Octavia Elease: 00:03:31

I wouldn't say completely differently.

Octavia Elease: 00:03:33

I think there's a tadd bit of an elevation, on your website

Octavia Elease: 00:03:37

than on social media, right?

Octavia Elease: 00:03:39

Like for me, if you look at my Instagram, it's a lot more personal.

Octavia Elease: 00:03:43

Just because I'm trying to connect on a personal level and they're like, Hey,

Octavia Elease: 00:03:46

I like the fact that she likes Disney.

Octavia Elease: 00:03:47

Or, my kids play baseball as well.

Octavia Elease: 00:03:49

Just like, you know that, baseball life, it helps them to make that connection

Octavia Elease: 00:03:53

and then they, you are like, oh, she seems like a fun person to work with.

Octavia Elease: 00:03:56

Then they head over to my website.

Octavia Elease: 00:03:57

They're going to get the same.

Octavia Elease: 00:03:59

Connection, but a little bit more polished.

Octavia Elease: 00:04:02

That's how I put the two together, the marriage between my social media presence

Octavia Elease: 00:04:06

and my website presence is just, like I said on my social media, it's definitely

Octavia Elease: 00:04:10

a lot, like you said, more conversational, much more friendly, much more laid

Octavia Elease: 00:04:13

back, more real life things and all.

Octavia Elease: 00:04:16

And I also discuss those things on my website, but then of course you get more

Octavia Elease: 00:04:19

of the business aspect on the website.

Sara Gillis: 00:04:21

Yeah, I love that word elevate.

Sara Gillis: 00:04:22

Like it really is just a little bit more polished, and I like to say

Sara Gillis: 00:04:27

website copy is like when I write for clients, it's like you on your best day.

Sara Gillis: 00:04:31

Like when none of the words get stuck in your brain, when none of the awkwardness

Sara Gillis: 00:04:35

happens, it's you on your best day.

Sara Gillis: 00:04:37

And I love that so much.

Octavia Elease: 00:04:39

exactly.

Octavia Elease: 00:04:39

Definitely, definitely.

Octavia Elease: 00:04:40

You on your best day on your website.

Sara Gillis: 00:04:42

Yeah, I love that.

Sara Gillis: 00:04:43

So tell me a little bit about you personally.

Sara Gillis: 00:04:45

So showing up as yourself online in your business.

Sara Gillis: 00:04:49

What is that looked like for you personally?

Sara Gillis: 00:04:51

Is that something that's a struggle for you?

Sara Gillis: 00:04:53

Is that something that's always come naturally?

Sara Gillis: 00:04:55

Tell me a little bit about what it means to you to show

Sara Gillis: 00:04:58

up as Octavia in your business.

Octavia Elease: 00:05:00

Well, so it's very much a struggle for me just because I.

Octavia Elease: 00:05:05

So I'm super charismatic.

Octavia Elease: 00:05:07

I am super personable when I'm around people, but when it's just me, I

Octavia Elease: 00:05:10

am very much right into criminal minds, trying to figure out, what

Octavia Elease: 00:05:14

my neighbors are up to, right?

Octavia Elease: 00:05:16

So for me it's a struggle sometimes to show up online.

Octavia Elease: 00:05:19

I really struggle with, Image positivity.

Octavia Elease: 00:05:21

Like, I don't like the way I look.

Octavia Elease: 00:05:23

And I think a lot of us just struggle, oh, I don't like my

Octavia Elease: 00:05:25

teeth, I don't like my hair.

Octavia Elease: 00:05:26

That's a huge struggle for me.

Octavia Elease: 00:05:27

For so long I was really tiny and I mean like a hundred pounds tiny.

Octavia Elease: 00:05:31

And now that I'm like a hundred plus pounds, it's definitely a lot

Octavia Elease: 00:05:35

different and for me to show up because I no longer look the way I used to.

Octavia Elease: 00:05:39

So me showing up authentically, it's hard.

Octavia Elease: 00:05:43

But at the same time, I have really made great strides in trying to actually, get

Octavia Elease: 00:05:49

over, not get over, but move past, What I feel like I look like and just know what

Octavia Elease: 00:05:54

I'm going to show up when I see other people that, I feel like look like me.

Octavia Elease: 00:05:57

And I'm like, they show up all the time.

Octavia Elease: 00:05:59

I can do that.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:00

And so I really try to hone in on that.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:03

And I try to show up in ways that really represent me.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:07

So I show up as a baseball mom.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:08

I show up as someone who loves Disney.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:11

It helps me.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:12

Fight all those insecurities that I have with inside of myself.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:15

If I'm just like, Hey, these are the things I like, I show up as Otis's mom.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:19

That's my furry friend that's laying here looking at me, kind of crazy right now.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:23

So I show up with my authentic self, with the things that I like and the things

Octavia Elease: 00:06:27

that interest me, and I hope that, Someone else is looking at me like, you know

Octavia Elease: 00:06:31

what, she can show up just like I can.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:34

And same as like I see you, you inspire me a lot of the times.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:39

Maddie Ong definitely, inspires me and I actually sent her a message the other day.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:43

I was like, girl, I don't know if you wear makeup or not.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:45

But it doesn't look like you do, and that gives me all the

Octavia Elease: 00:06:48

confidence I need to show up.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:49

I don't think people realize, because I feel like so many people use filters

Octavia Elease: 00:06:52

I am really drawn to people that don't use filters because it gives me

Octavia Elease: 00:06:56

the confidence, like, you know what?

Octavia Elease: 00:06:57

I don't need a filter.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:58

I don't need makeup today.

Octavia Elease: 00:06:59

I can just, come as you are.

Sara Gillis: 00:07:01

Yeah, I love that.

Sara Gillis: 00:07:02

I think no one is a stranger to those insecurities and having to battle

Sara Gillis: 00:07:06

through those to show up whether you're a business owner or not.

Sara Gillis: 00:07:09

But I think that when you add business to it, there's a whole nother layer

Sara Gillis: 00:07:13

of that permission that you give yourself to do that, but also that

Sara Gillis: 00:07:17

inspiration and that permission that you give other people, right?

Sara Gillis: 00:07:20

If I am asking my clients to be vulnerable in their copy, And I'm

Sara Gillis: 00:07:24

not showing up in a vulnerable way on my social media, in my business.

Sara Gillis: 00:07:28

How can I ask them to do something I'm not willing to do?

Sara Gillis: 00:07:31

And so I think it's, it really is important to do the work and

Sara Gillis: 00:07:35

to be that person that you are truly online and in your business.

Sara Gillis: 00:07:40

And that doesn't mean it's easy.

Sara Gillis: 00:07:42

I mean, that certainly doesn't mean it's easy.

Sara Gillis: 00:07:44

But I feel like watching you really showcase who you are, what you do,

Sara Gillis: 00:07:49

and all of the things that you love that's really what makes people

Sara Gillis: 00:07:53

connect with you and relate to you.

Sara Gillis: 00:07:55

And so I'm curious what does it feel like for you when you show up as yourself

Sara Gillis: 00:07:59

and when you are able to kind of embrace who you are in business and in life,

Sara Gillis: 00:08:04

what happens as a result of that?

Octavia Elease: 00:08:06

It feels absolutely amazing.

Octavia Elease: 00:08:08

There are no words, so the best word I can use to describe it, it

Octavia Elease: 00:08:11

feels supercalifragilistic osis, when I show up as myself, and the

Octavia Elease: 00:08:16

response is always so overwhelming.

Octavia Elease: 00:08:19

It is hard to describe it.

Octavia Elease: 00:08:20

It fills my heart, it fills me with joy.

Octavia Elease: 00:08:22

Gives me those nice uhoh feelings, those butterflies in your stomach.

Octavia Elease: 00:08:26

And as a result, I typically attract clients that, feel the same way,

Octavia Elease: 00:08:30

have the same interests, so it makes the projects go a lot smoother.

Octavia Elease: 00:08:33

And when you are working with someone who is like-minded or have

Octavia Elease: 00:08:37

like interest, in between project things, you can also chat about.

Octavia Elease: 00:08:41

The things that you guys have in common, whether it's, like

Octavia Elease: 00:08:44

I said, for me it's usually baseball, Disney, Otis, bulldogs.

Octavia Elease: 00:08:49

My kids, people are attracted me because I'm a boy, mom, I'm a single parent.

Octavia Elease: 00:08:53

It's all those little things and they're like, oh, if she's a single

Octavia Elease: 00:08:57

parent and she has three boys and she does all the things, then I can do it.

Octavia Elease: 00:09:02

It.

Octavia Elease: 00:09:02

It is always about, for me, it's always about how can I help the next person see

Octavia Elease: 00:09:08

their full potential and then take that full potential and put it into their

Octavia Elease: 00:09:12

website or their client experience.

Sara Gillis: 00:09:14

I think that you have such a unique gift to do that.

Sara Gillis: 00:09:16

I mean, bringing the full experience of a person into their design, into

Sara Gillis: 00:09:21

how they show up and communicate.

Sara Gillis: 00:09:22

That's such a gift that you have and I'm so glad that you're sharing

Sara Gillis: 00:09:25

that with people and with me today.

Sara Gillis: 00:09:27

I love that,

Octavia Elease: 00:09:28

Thank you.

Octavia Elease: 00:09:29

Thank you.

Octavia Elease: 00:09:29

I enjoy it.

Octavia Elease: 00:09:30

For so long I didn't think that people wanted to, show up authentically.

Octavia Elease: 00:09:34

Because even me, I felt like my brand had to look a certain way, it had to

Octavia Elease: 00:09:38

have a certain tone because that's what everyone else was doing, right?

Octavia Elease: 00:09:42

All the other luxury web designers.

Octavia Elease: 00:09:44

But when I finally took a step outside of that and I was like, you know what?

Octavia Elease: 00:09:48

I like colorful things.

Octavia Elease: 00:09:50

I like all the things.

Octavia Elease: 00:09:52

So I want to show up that way.

Octavia Elease: 00:09:54

It made a difference in the clients that I attracted and in the

Octavia Elease: 00:09:58

projects that I actually produced.

Octavia Elease: 00:09:59

I enjoy them more, because I'm actually doing what I love and I get to wear

Octavia Elease: 00:10:02

pink and purple in my Disney ears.

Octavia Elease: 00:10:04

And it's okay.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:05

Yes, of course.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:06

It, there's a freedom in that, right?

Sara Gillis: 00:10:08

There's a freedom and a permission that not only you're giving to yourself, but

Sara Gillis: 00:10:11

others, and I think that when you show that, you attract that too, which is

Sara Gillis: 00:10:15

a really fun place to be in business.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:17

Love it.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:18

Okay, so let's pivot a little bit here.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:20

I want to talk shop with you for a little bit.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:22

So, I'm a copywriter, you're a web designer.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:25

We obviously chat a lot with our clients about sales pages

Sara Gillis: 00:10:28

and about what that looks like.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:30

So let's bring that conversation here to the podcast.

Sara Gillis: 00:10:33

So tell me a little bit about how you describe to clients who might not know

Sara Gillis: 00:10:37

what a sales page is and how it's a little bit of a different thing than just

Sara Gillis: 00:10:42

like, oh, I'm just listing my services.

Octavia Elease: 00:10:44

So when I'm describing a sales page to someone, it is very much,

Octavia Elease: 00:10:48

an extended version of your service page.

Octavia Elease: 00:10:52

It is a much more detailed, versus just something simple like, oh, you

Octavia Elease: 00:10:56

get five of these, six of these, whatever, it is that you're selling.

Octavia Elease: 00:11:01

I try to explain to them, this is where you break all those things down.

Octavia Elease: 00:11:03

You break down all the steps, and you make sure that you are telling them what

Octavia Elease: 00:11:07

they're going to receive, telling them what the, outcome could be, telling

Octavia Elease: 00:11:11

them what they're missing out on.

Octavia Elease: 00:11:13

So you're going to touch all of the points of a person, their

Octavia Elease: 00:11:16

pain points, their highs and lows.

Octavia Elease: 00:11:19

You're going to make sure you tell them what the feeling is going to look

Octavia Elease: 00:11:21

like, what their life could be like.

Octavia Elease: 00:11:23

You're just going to constantly, constantly reiterate that on a sales page.

Octavia Elease: 00:11:26

Basically that's what it is.

Octavia Elease: 00:11:27

It's, repetition, because you're going to say the same thing in maybe five

Octavia Elease: 00:11:30

different ways on a sales page, but it's all about how it connects with them.

Octavia Elease: 00:11:35

You'll have a section, let's say you're talking about someone's pain points.

Octavia Elease: 00:11:38

You can do that in a paragraph form.

Octavia Elease: 00:11:40

You can do that in bullet form.

Octavia Elease: 00:11:42

Because everyone responds differently to information when

Octavia Elease: 00:11:44

they're receiving it, right?

Octavia Elease: 00:11:45

So having those different aspects about the same thing on one page,

Octavia Elease: 00:11:50

it will speak to almost anyone.

Sara Gillis: 00:11:52

Yeah.

Sara Gillis: 00:11:52

When I say sales page, people are like, well, I don't.

Sara Gillis: 00:11:55

I'm not a coach.

Sara Gillis: 00:11:56

I don't need one of those.

Sara Gillis: 00:11:57

And it's like, oh, no, but you do, honey.

Sara Gillis: 00:11:59

You do.

Sara Gillis: 00:11:59

Because it's really diving into that client's mindset and helping

Sara Gillis: 00:12:04

them to see why this offer this.

Sara Gillis: 00:12:07

Service is going to be what they are looking for.

Sara Gillis: 00:12:11

And I love the idea of, it's just an extension of that

Sara Gillis: 00:12:14

services page that's key.

Sara Gillis: 00:12:17

That's a huge great way to explain it.

Sara Gillis: 00:12:19

So I'd love to dive in with you about what are the must haves when

Sara Gillis: 00:12:23

you're looking at a sales page.

Sara Gillis: 00:12:25

And so I definitely have my list of copy must haves, but I'd love your

Sara Gillis: 00:12:29

thoughts on the design side of.

Sara Gillis: 00:12:31

What does it need to look like?

Sara Gillis: 00:12:32

Scroll, like, feel like as you're walking through a sales

Sara Gillis: 00:12:36

page for a service provider?

Octavia Elease: 00:12:38

So the biggest thing for a sales page for

Octavia Elease: 00:12:40

me is definitely white space.

Octavia Elease: 00:12:42

A lot of times we can, smush things together.

Octavia Elease: 00:12:45

That's the best way to describe it.

Octavia Elease: 00:12:47

It's like one thing on top of another to where.

Octavia Elease: 00:12:50

When someone is scrolling, they can't even digest what they're reading because

Octavia Elease: 00:12:54

everything's so squished together.

Octavia Elease: 00:12:56

So definitely the biggest thing is always white space, giving

Octavia Elease: 00:12:59

things places to breathe.

Octavia Elease: 00:13:01

That's my biggest thing.

Octavia Elease: 00:13:02

Imagery.

Octavia Elease: 00:13:03

People connect with people when you are choosing imagery for your

Octavia Elease: 00:13:06

sales page, I really tell people to make sure that it's actually

Octavia Elease: 00:13:09

connecting, that it speaks to someone.

Octavia Elease: 00:13:11

Like it's not just a random stock photo.

Octavia Elease: 00:13:13

A lot of times, when we are doing brand sessions, we just want

Octavia Elease: 00:13:16

to get pictures of ourselves.

Octavia Elease: 00:13:17

Like no, having good stock photo that actually relate to your brand

Octavia Elease: 00:13:20

and what it is that, what service you're selling makes all the

Octavia Elease: 00:13:23

difference because, at the end of the day, that's what they're buying.

Octavia Elease: 00:13:26

They're buying, working with you.

Octavia Elease: 00:13:28

Not with, i stock photos.com.

Octavia Elease: 00:13:31

Right.

Sara Gillis: 00:13:31

Yep.

Sara Gillis: 00:13:32

Yep.

Octavia Elease: 00:13:33

Those are definitely two of the biggest design things for me.

Octavia Elease: 00:13:35

And making sure that your brand is actually represented, the brand

Octavia Elease: 00:13:39

colors, because of course we all know that colors evokes certain emotions,

Octavia Elease: 00:13:43

so making sure that those colors that are in your brand are present.

Octavia Elease: 00:13:48

And also the colors that of the feelings that you want people to have when

Octavia Elease: 00:13:52

they are looking on your sale page.

Octavia Elease: 00:13:54

Those colors are represented as well.

Sara Gillis: 00:13:56

That's so key and honestly, the biggest thing for me

Sara Gillis: 00:13:59

from just an outsider's view on the design is it has to look like it

Sara Gillis: 00:14:02

belongs with the rest of your website.

Sara Gillis: 00:14:05

That's the thing that I see most often is people pivot into a different posture,

Sara Gillis: 00:14:09

a different tone of voice, when they're selling something and it's like, girl,

Sara Gillis: 00:14:13

you can sell with your same voice.

Sara Gillis: 00:14:15

You don't have to put on something stiff or icky like a blazer, like

Sara Gillis: 00:14:19

you can put on that normal voice and use that to connect and to sell

Sara Gillis: 00:14:24

to it doesn't have to be different and it shouldn't be, in my opinion.

Octavia Elease: 00:14:28

No it shouldn't be.

Octavia Elease: 00:14:29

And I see that a lot.

Octavia Elease: 00:14:31

Sales pages tend to be very much more stiffy than the person you

Octavia Elease: 00:14:34

see on Instagram than the person that you see on their website.

Octavia Elease: 00:14:37

It's very formal.

Octavia Elease: 00:14:39

And like you said, you can say, Hey, girl, on your sales page,

Octavia Elease: 00:14:43

because that's what they're used to.

Octavia Elease: 00:14:44

That's what they're looking for.

Octavia Elease: 00:14:45

Otherwise they're not going to connect with it.

Octavia Elease: 00:14:47

And another design aspect I just thought about while you were talking

Octavia Elease: 00:14:49

was, is, how you present the copy that you, that is written for your

Octavia Elease: 00:14:53

sales page, how you present it.

Octavia Elease: 00:14:55

A lot of times we want to, you have these long paragraphs.

Octavia Elease: 00:14:59

No one's reading that.

Octavia Elease: 00:14:59

It is 2023.

Octavia Elease: 00:15:00

I'm not reading all that.

Octavia Elease: 00:15:01

Okay.

Octavia Elease: 00:15:02

Bullet points or small paragraphs.

Octavia Elease: 00:15:04

Make all the difference in the design of how your sales page looks.

Octavia Elease: 00:15:08

And like I said, how it connects to someone.

Octavia Elease: 00:15:09

because at the end of the day, you want to attract them and

Octavia Elease: 00:15:12

you want to keep them there.

Octavia Elease: 00:15:13

To read all the great things that you've paid good money for the copywriter to

Octavia Elease: 00:15:16

write for you so that they can press the button at the end of the day.

Sara Gillis: 00:15:20

Yeah, and I mean, especially thinking about how it

Sara Gillis: 00:15:22

views on mobile, those long paragraphs are not going to serve anybody.

Sara Gillis: 00:15:26

No, and that white space is so much more important on mobile, I would argue.

Sara Gillis: 00:15:30

I mean, it's definitely important on the desktop version for sure.

Sara Gillis: 00:15:33

But man, most people are making purchasing decisions on their mobile devices,

Sara Gillis: 00:15:37

and so it's something to think about.

Octavia Elease: 00:15:38

It is definitely something to think about.

Octavia Elease: 00:15:40

That's what I always tell people.

Octavia Elease: 00:15:41

Your mobile design should definitely take precedence over your desktop

Octavia Elease: 00:15:45

because most consumers are on their phone, when they are making purchases.

Octavia Elease: 00:15:49

Even, you just think when people, when I'm on Instagram and I see something, I

Octavia Elease: 00:15:53

click on it, and I'm still on my mobile.

Octavia Elease: 00:15:54

I'm not going to be like, oh, let me go to my desktop and do this.

Octavia Elease: 00:15:57

Like I saw Natalie this morning, she's at jury duty.

Octavia Elease: 00:15:59

You can buy things.

Octavia Elease: 00:16:00

You know what I mean?

Octavia Elease: 00:16:01

While you're at jury duty, but you're going to be on your

Octavia Elease: 00:16:03

phone, you're not going to be sitting there with your laptop.

Sara Gillis: 00:16:05

Exactly.

Sara Gillis: 00:16:06

Exactly.

Sara Gillis: 00:16:06

And I think part of the sales page that really speaks to me is that mindset

Sara Gillis: 00:16:11

piece, and that's my must have, right?

Sara Gillis: 00:16:12

Is speaking into the mindset of that client.

Sara Gillis: 00:16:15

What are they?

Sara Gillis: 00:16:17

What are they needing and how can you include those mindset motivators that

Sara Gillis: 00:16:21

help them to identify, okay, am I the right client for this offer, and help

Sara Gillis: 00:16:26

them to feel confident in making that purchasing decision that's so key.

Octavia Elease: 00:16:31

Very much so.

Octavia Elease: 00:16:32

Very, very much so.

Sara Gillis: 00:16:33

Tell me about your thoughts on social proof and frequently

Sara Gillis: 00:16:37

asked questions like, do you think those are essential in helping

Sara Gillis: 00:16:40

you make a purchasing decision?

Sara Gillis: 00:16:42

And so then do you recommend that clients include those?

Octavia Elease: 00:16:45

I'll touch on frequent asked questions first.

Octavia Elease: 00:16:47

Yes, yes and yes, because anytime I make a purchase, the first thing I'm

Octavia Elease: 00:16:51

doing is going to go look at reviews.

Octavia Elease: 00:16:53

We all do it on Amazon.

Octavia Elease: 00:16:54

I do it on almost anything that I buy.

Octavia Elease: 00:16:56

I'm going to see how other people.

Octavia Elease: 00:16:58

Thought that this product was, or thought that this service was.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:01

And so the same thing applies to us as creatives.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:04

People want to know what other people thought about what it

Octavia Elease: 00:17:07

was like to work with you.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:08

And if you don't have that social proof, I guarantee you your sales won't be as,

Octavia Elease: 00:17:14

fruitful as you would like them to be.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:16

People buy from people at the end of the day,

Octavia Elease: 00:17:18

when you are making the decision, to buy, like Amazon, right?

Octavia Elease: 00:17:22

They have the FAQs and then someone will ask a question and then someone,

Octavia Elease: 00:17:26

Amazon, I guess, or the seller will provide an answer, and then

Octavia Elease: 00:17:29

someone will come in and whatever.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:30

So that's definitely huge.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:32

With the FAQs, I typically try to tell people to stay under five or six because

Octavia Elease: 00:17:37

at that point you can make a blog post.

Sara Gillis: 00:17:39

Yep.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:40

Anytime you have more than five or six questions it's a blog post.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:44

Don't put 20 questions in your FAQs.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:46

It's just not a good look.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:47

And no one's going to read all 20.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:48

So that's a huge thing.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:49

But like I said, with social proof, I definitely think

Octavia Elease: 00:17:51

that people buy from people.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:53

I definitely hope that most people, when you are providing social

Octavia Elease: 00:17:56

proof, you're included an image.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:57

Because again, we buy from people.

Octavia Elease: 00:17:58

I mean, It is nice to read a testimonial about, oh, this service is great, but

Octavia Elease: 00:18:02

when I can see the person and I mean, I'm the person I don't know about you.

Octavia Elease: 00:18:05

I look up the person's name and see, like I'll go Google them

Octavia Elease: 00:18:08

and make sure it's a real person because I'm that creepy person.

Sara Gillis: 00:18:11

I think that's doing your due diligence, girl.

Sara Gillis: 00:18:13

I

Octavia Elease: 00:18:13

I am doing my due diligence.

Octavia Elease: 00:18:14

But yeah, I think that's where I fall with both of those.

Octavia Elease: 00:18:17

I think they're very important and they both serve purpose, and if you

Octavia Elease: 00:18:20

are not including them anywhere on your website, you are missing out.

Sara Gillis: 00:18:23

Yeah, I agree.

Sara Gillis: 00:18:24

I think too, like the beauty of an F A Q section in particular, frequently asked

Sara Gillis: 00:18:29

questions is just to anticipate, right?

Sara Gillis: 00:18:32

Anticipate those questions and show that you have that posture of.

Sara Gillis: 00:18:35

Really creating that environment where it's safe to ask questions, but also

Sara Gillis: 00:18:40

where you're anticipating their needs so beautifully that they can say, oh, well

Sara Gillis: 00:18:44

I was going to ask that, but here it is.

Sara Gillis: 00:18:46

And I love the opportunity to serve that client even before they say yes, even

Sara Gillis: 00:18:51

before they click purchase, serving that client to show them, I can anticipate

Sara Gillis: 00:18:55

your questions and I'm what you need.

Sara Gillis: 00:18:57

That's a beautiful thing.

Octavia Elease: 00:18:59

And that's the biggest part, right?

Octavia Elease: 00:19:01

Most people don't realize that you want to definitely answer

Octavia Elease: 00:19:04

questions before someone asks.

Octavia Elease: 00:19:06

If you don't, then they will likely inquire with all these questions that

Octavia Elease: 00:19:10

could have possibly been on your F A Q.

Octavia Elease: 00:19:12

And if you were noticing.

Octavia Elease: 00:19:14

People are asking the same questions, that's a dead giveaway that,

Octavia Elease: 00:19:17

hey, this should probably be a f a Q, or better yet a blog post.

Octavia Elease: 00:19:20

It could be an f a q and a blog post.

Octavia Elease: 00:19:23

Because of course, we're all about increasing our Ss e o.

Octavia Elease: 00:19:25

Mm-hmm.

Sara Gillis: 00:19:25

Mm-hmm.

Sara Gillis: 00:19:26

Yeah, girl.

Sara Gillis: 00:19:26

Love that.

Sara Gillis: 00:19:27

Tell me a little bit about calls to action.

Sara Gillis: 00:19:30

A, a sales page is longer, it's an extended version of that services

Sara Gillis: 00:19:33

page, so you've got to have calls to action that appears throughout.

Sara Gillis: 00:19:37

What does that look like for you?

Sara Gillis: 00:19:38

From a designer standpoint?

Octavia Elease: 00:19:40

So I am a call to action every other or every two, sections

Octavia Elease: 00:19:45

on your website because you don't want people to have to scroll too

Octavia Elease: 00:19:48

many times to be able to contact you.

Octavia Elease: 00:19:50

If at some point I've decided, hey, I'm definitely want to work

Octavia Elease: 00:19:53

with Sarah, she is the one for me.

Octavia Elease: 00:19:55

I don't want to have to scroll back to the top or scroll to the bottom

Octavia Elease: 00:19:58

or for better yet, just be looking all over the place for a button.

Octavia Elease: 00:20:01

The next thing with the buttons is my call to actions.

Octavia Elease: 00:20:04

I personally like for them to be all the same color.

Octavia Elease: 00:20:07

I know that, that's, a personal preference.

Octavia Elease: 00:20:09

I like them all the same color, because once they've seen it once or twice, when

Octavia Elease: 00:20:13

they are scrolling through the pages, they know exactly what they're looking for.

Octavia Elease: 00:20:17

They know that, oh, I'm looking for this button that's going to be this

Octavia Elease: 00:20:20

color, and I always tell people to make sure it is usually the loudest

Octavia Elease: 00:20:23

or brightest, one of the brightest colors in your color palette.

Octavia Elease: 00:20:26

And you just know that hey, and you make the buttons the same

Octavia Elease: 00:20:30

across all of your platforms.

Octavia Elease: 00:20:32

So even when I am sending out a newsletter, my newsletter

Octavia Elease: 00:20:35

buttons are the same color as the ones that are my website.

Sara Gillis: 00:20:38

Oh, that's smart.

Octavia Elease: 00:20:39

I'm super intentional about making my call

Octavia Elease: 00:20:41

to actions, all the same color.

Octavia Elease: 00:20:43

They will always be yellow unless I decide to make a whole change.

Octavia Elease: 00:20:45

But my call to action buttons are always the yellow that's in my

Octavia Elease: 00:20:48

color palette every single time.

Octavia Elease: 00:20:50

That's what you'll see.

Octavia Elease: 00:20:52

It'll always be the yellow, unless, for whatever reason I can't customize

Octavia Elease: 00:20:55

it, but I don't know where I can't.

Octavia Elease: 00:20:56

But yeah, making sure they're all the same colors because guess what?

Octavia Elease: 00:20:59

If someone clicks on my newsletter, It's yellow when they go to my

Octavia Elease: 00:21:02

website and they know that the yellow buttons are the, how they get around

Octavia Elease: 00:21:06

and how they get to the next place.

Sara Gillis: 00:21:08

I love that.

Sara Gillis: 00:21:08

I love that.

Sara Gillis: 00:21:09

What about the actual copy?

Sara Gillis: 00:21:11

I love doing like I Want In or That's Me or Book Now or Buy now,

Sara Gillis: 00:21:16

but I'm curious what, from a design standpoint, you think about how

Sara Gillis: 00:21:20

that plays in terms of converting.

Octavia Elease: 00:21:22

So for me, I am very much, I like conversational, copy on

Octavia Elease: 00:21:26

the buttons, right on my call to actions.

Octavia Elease: 00:21:28

I like the very conversational, so a lot of times it's like, yeah, girl.

Octavia Elease: 00:21:32

Or like you said, I want in or Octavia helped me, or, give me the

Octavia Elease: 00:21:35

pixie dust, whatever the words are, those words that I use in my brand,

Octavia Elease: 00:21:39

those are typically what I'm going to use on the copy, on my buttons.

Octavia Elease: 00:21:43

I'm not a fan of the generic ones.

Octavia Elease: 00:21:44

The learn more, contact now and they serve a purpose depending

Octavia Elease: 00:21:48

on the context of the section.

Octavia Elease: 00:21:50

But for me, I want it to be much more conversational, just because

Octavia Elease: 00:21:54

again, I really feel that's what connects better with people.

Octavia Elease: 00:21:57

Especially when you're talking about a small business, we're not talking about

Octavia Elease: 00:21:59

like Coca-Cola or Old Navy, but you know, we're talking about, like us, how

Octavia Elease: 00:22:04

we actually talk, and our business is definitely based on a personal connection.

Octavia Elease: 00:22:09

So having buttons that you know, also speak that same tone is very important.

Octavia Elease: 00:22:13

So mine are usually much more conversational, like I said, young girl

Octavia Elease: 00:22:16

or, I mean it will, even, some of my buttons says girl, G U R L, because

Octavia Elease: 00:22:21

in my copy on Instagram, you, a lot of times when I spell girl, it's g u r l.

Octavia Elease: 00:22:26

So you know, it's that same concept.

Octavia Elease: 00:22:28

Or I say y'all because I'm from the south, so it will say the same things.

Octavia Elease: 00:22:34

Again, that's just my personal preference.

Octavia Elease: 00:22:35

I like it to be conversational and I want it to connect across all the platforms.

Sara Gillis: 00:22:40

And what a beautiful way to just, again, extend your personality

Sara Gillis: 00:22:43

and show people who you are, right?

Sara Gillis: 00:22:45

That's authenticity right there.

Sara Gillis: 00:22:46

I love that so much.

Sara Gillis: 00:22:48

Okay, so let's flip into kind of the last part of our conversation here.

Sara Gillis: 00:22:52

I know that for many of my clients, whether they're brand new to business

Sara Gillis: 00:22:57

or they are just refining their offers, thinking about how to,

Sara Gillis: 00:23:00

make things easier on themselves.

Sara Gillis: 00:23:02

As a business owner, they are just spinning their

Sara Gillis: 00:23:05

wheels trying to figure out.

Sara Gillis: 00:23:06

Okay, where do I start?

Sara Gillis: 00:23:07

Do I get a C R M?

Sara Gillis: 00:23:09

How do I use my c r m better?

Sara Gillis: 00:23:11

Or how can I create a web design that actually does show it me, as my myself?

Sara Gillis: 00:23:16

So tell listeners about these business consulting calls that you're

Sara Gillis: 00:23:20

offering and how they can actually stop them from just spinning their

Sara Gillis: 00:23:23

wheels and not doing anything.

Octavia Elease: 00:23:25

So my business consulting calls, they are designed

Octavia Elease: 00:23:29

for people to, align all of their processes together, right?

Octavia Elease: 00:23:34

A lot of times people struggle with what to do first.

Octavia Elease: 00:23:36

Like you said, I don't know whether to do my c r m first.

Octavia Elease: 00:23:39

I don't know whether to do my website first.

Octavia Elease: 00:23:41

Where am I supposed to?

Octavia Elease: 00:23:42

What kind of.

Octavia Elease: 00:23:43

Images should I be looking for, all of those pieces that we need to pull

Octavia Elease: 00:23:46

together to make our brand present and functional and where we're happy

Octavia Elease: 00:23:51

and where we're actually making money.

Octavia Elease: 00:23:52

So a lot of times when we get on these calls, I will sit down.

Octavia Elease: 00:23:55

Usually there's a questionnaire that goes out before to tell me

Octavia Elease: 00:23:57

what you're struggling with or tell me what your process is.

Octavia Elease: 00:24:00

And that way I have a few days to sit down and dissect and I

Octavia Elease: 00:24:02

know what we need to touch on.

Octavia Elease: 00:24:04

But then when we get on the call, I tell them, give me a brief synopsis of just

Octavia Elease: 00:24:08

how they look at their business, what do they feel like they need help with?

Octavia Elease: 00:24:10

And from there we just sit down and we say, okay, these are the things

Octavia Elease: 00:24:14

we're going to tackle in order.

Octavia Elease: 00:24:15

What an order of importance.

Octavia Elease: 00:24:17

Usually the basic thing is SOPs.

Sara Gillis: 00:24:19

Mm-hmm.

Octavia Elease: 00:24:20

the SOPs, we can't really do much of anything else.

Octavia Elease: 00:24:23

I mean, we could, but then again, we'd be still piecing it together.

Octavia Elease: 00:24:26

Like how do you want your business to actually function?

Sara Gillis: 00:24:29

Yeah.

Octavia Elease: 00:24:29

And so once we go over that, then we're able to say,

Octavia Elease: 00:24:32

okay, this is the c r m you need.

Octavia Elease: 00:24:34

What's important for you with the c r m if what features are important?

Octavia Elease: 00:24:38

If someone tells me having a mobile app is important, I will typically point

Octavia Elease: 00:24:42

them in a, direction of HoneyBook.

Octavia Elease: 00:24:44

If someone tells them they need more automation triggers, then I would point

Octavia Elease: 00:24:48

you in the direction of dubsado right?

Octavia Elease: 00:24:50

Those are the two platforms that I prefer when I'm referring people to

Octavia Elease: 00:24:53

which c r m works better for them.

Octavia Elease: 00:24:55

Same thing with, website design.

Octavia Elease: 00:24:57

Granted, as a show designer, I will always tell you to go to show it, but

Octavia Elease: 00:25:01

maybe your brain doesn't work that way.

Octavia Elease: 00:25:03

Maybe your brain works better with Squarespace.

Octavia Elease: 00:25:06

So then that's where you need to be.

Octavia Elease: 00:25:08

So that's basically how the consulting calls go.

Octavia Elease: 00:25:10

It's just helping you figure out what it is that you need to better streamline

Octavia Elease: 00:25:14

your client flow from start to finish.

Sara Gillis: 00:25:17

That's so valuable because it's one-on-one.

Sara Gillis: 00:25:19

It's personalized conversation.

Sara Gillis: 00:25:21

It's opportunities to really connect with the business owner.

Sara Gillis: 00:25:25

On their own terms, right?

Sara Gillis: 00:25:27

On their own turf, what are they comfortable with?

Sara Gillis: 00:25:29

What are they offering and how can they best serve their people?

Sara Gillis: 00:25:33

And I love that you have both the web design background and the

Sara Gillis: 00:25:37

HoneyBook, the c r m background to really be able to speak to both.

Sara Gillis: 00:25:41

That's wonderful.

Octavia Elease: 00:25:42

Exactly, and that's the biggest thing.

Octavia Elease: 00:25:44

A lot of times people, they come to me, they're like, oh, I've

Octavia Elease: 00:25:46

kind of started dabbling here and I've started dabbling there.

Octavia Elease: 00:25:49

And they don't even have their packages together.

Octavia Elease: 00:25:51

So every time that they're in their HoneyBook, they are always creating

Octavia Elease: 00:25:55

new assets because they don't have a client flow that really works.

Octavia Elease: 00:25:59

Or, they don't have an idea of how they want their client flow

Octavia Elease: 00:26:02

to go, and then their prices on their website might be different.

Octavia Elease: 00:26:05

So when someone's inquiring, they're all over the place

Octavia Elease: 00:26:08

versus saying, Hey, this is what.

Octavia Elease: 00:26:10

The price is, this is what I offer.

Octavia Elease: 00:26:12

A lot of times people, they try to accommodate everybody and sometimes

Octavia Elease: 00:26:17

you can't accommodate everybody.

Octavia Elease: 00:26:18

You have to stick to what makes you happy.

Octavia Elease: 00:26:20

Like I always say, if it doesn't make you feel like you're a Disney

Octavia Elease: 00:26:22

world, then it's probably not.

Octavia Elease: 00:26:25

The right offer you should be offering.

Octavia Elease: 00:26:26

So if you're a service provider and you're doing something that you just absolutely

Octavia Elease: 00:26:29

dread every time it's time to do it, then maybe you should reconsider that offer.

Octavia Elease: 00:26:33

And sometimes they need someone else to help them get to that place.

Octavia Elease: 00:26:36

And that's where I come in.

Octavia Elease: 00:26:37

I'm like, how does this make you feel?

Octavia Elease: 00:26:39

On a scale of one to 10, how does this offer make you feel

Octavia Elease: 00:26:41

when you are actually doing it?

Octavia Elease: 00:26:43

And if it doesn't, if it's not above a seven or eight, I'm like, you

Octavia Elease: 00:26:46

probably want to reevaluate that offer.

Octavia Elease: 00:26:48

Or people will have two offers that could possibly be one.

Sara Gillis: 00:26:51

Yeah.

Octavia Elease: 00:26:52

So with that call, with those, business consulting

Octavia Elease: 00:26:55

calls, it just helps, bring the light, it brings the dumbo, to your Disney

Sara Gillis: 00:27:00

I love that.

Sara Gillis: 00:27:01

I love that.

Sara Gillis: 00:27:02

I rode that Dumbo ride with my one year old when we were at Disney

Sara Gillis: 00:27:05

World and a girl, I as a person who doesn't like heights even that

Sara Gillis: 00:27:09

was a little bit scary for me.

Sara Gillis: 00:27:10

I was hanging onto my one year old just as much as he was hanging onto me.

Sara Gillis: 00:27:13

Yeah.

Sara Gillis: 00:27:13

I'm such a wimp.

Sara Gillis: 00:27:14

Oh man, girl.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:16

Oh yeah, Dumbo is probably one of my favorite rides.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:19

It's a small world.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:20

I mean, I have, all of them are probably my favorite.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:22

Everything except for, the Guardians of the Galaxy at Disneyland.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:25

That is my least favorite ride.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:27

Um, it always makes me cry.

Sara Gillis: 00:27:29

Because it's scary or what?

Octavia Elease: 00:27:30

the Tower of Terror.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:31

Rebranded.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:32

Yeah, it's the Tower of Terror rebranded as Guardians of the

Octavia Elease: 00:27:35

Galaxy, the one in Disneyland.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:37

And it just makes me cry and that I don't want to.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:39

Do anything else in life ever again.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:41

Yeah, it's not my favorite,

Sara Gillis: 00:27:42

Word to the wise.

Sara Gillis: 00:27:43

I love that you're giving us tips about sales pages and also

Sara Gillis: 00:27:46

about what to avoid at Disney.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:48

Exactly that.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:49

That's the thing about it.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:50

If your sales page should definitely feel like a Dumbo and def, it's

Octavia Elease: 00:27:54

just this nice flow and life is great, you get in the air.

Octavia Elease: 00:27:57

But if your sales page feels like the Tower of Terror, you

Octavia Elease: 00:28:01

might want to reevaluate.

Octavia Elease: 00:28:02

If people feel like they're just up and down at fast paced and it's all over the

Octavia Elease: 00:28:05

place, you might want to reevaluate that.

Sara Gillis: 00:28:07

Yeah, girl, that's totally spot on.

Sara Gillis: 00:28:10

Well, thank you so, so much.

Sara Gillis: 00:28:11

I'm sending you a big virtual hug today for joining me.

Sara Gillis: 00:28:14

Be sure to check out Octavia's Business Consulting calls and her website to see

Sara Gillis: 00:28:19

how she can really serve you and help you to make magic in your business.

Sara Gillis: 00:28:23

We will have all the links for you in the show notes.

Sara Gillis: 00:28:26

As always, thanks so much for listening everyone, and until next time, this is

Sara Gillis: 00:28:29

your copywriter on call signing off.

Sara Gillis: 00:28:38

Thanks for listening to The Copywriter On Call podcast.

Sara Gillis: 00:28:41

If this episode has you feeling all sorts of inspired to show up as yourself online,

Sara Gillis: 00:28:45

click that subscribe button so you don't miss my stories or practical advice to

Sara Gillis: 00:28:49

help you express your quirky, vulnerable, and authentic self online chat soon.