Everything about email marketing gets turned on its head in this episode.

Forget long nurture sequences, constant launches, and trying to out-hustle your inbox. This is a proven system for turning cold subscribers into paying clients using behavior-driven automation and real human psychology, not guesswork.

Built from years of testing, refining, and understanding how people actually make buying decisions, this strategy turns overlooked email lists into reliable sales engines. Perfect for coaching programs, service businesses, and digital offers that need a smarter, smoother path to revenue.

Useful Episode Resources

FREE list of the top 10 books to improve your email marketing

If you want to write better emails, come up with better content, and move your readers to click and buy, here's how. We put together this list of our Top 10 most highly recommended books that will improve all areas of your email marketing (including some underground treasures that we happened upon, which have been game-changing for us). Grab your FREE list here. 

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If you want to chat about how you can maximise the value of your email list and make more money from every subscriber, we can help! We know your business is different, so come and hang out in our FREE Facebook group, the Email Marketing Show Community for Course Creators and Coaches. We share a lot of training and resources, and you can talk about what you're up to.

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This week's episode is sponsored by ResponseSuite.com, the survey quiz and application form tool that we created specifically for small businesses like you to integrate with your marketing systems to segment your subscribers and make more sales. Try it out for 14 days for just $1.

Join The Email Hero Blueprint

Want more? Let's say you're a course creator, membership site owner, coach, author, or expert and want to learn about the ethical psychology-based email marketing that turns 60-80% more of your newsletter subscribers into customers (within 60 days). If that's you, then The Email Hero Blueprint is for you.

This is hands down the most predictable, plug-and-play way to double your earnings per email subscriber. It allows you to generate a consistent sales flow without launching another product, service, or offer. Best news yet? You won't have to rely on copywriting, slimy persuasion, NLP, or ‘better' subject lines.

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Speaker

When someone becomes a buyer, they are more likely to buy something else in the future. So what we want to do is move someone's identity from being subscriber to customer. They spend all of this money to get leads. That person doesn't buy straight away. And all they do is they discard that lead to rot and die in their email list.

Speaker

And they do nothing with it because that person didn't want to buy on their time. A week later, they were getting automated emails saying, hey, I was just thinking about your event. I'm really looking forward to it, but I could do this really cool thing where we got a bunch of staple and got industrial staple guns. We fill one of them with staples. We'll leave the rest of them empty.

Speaker

You mix them up, and I fire them into my eyes. How do you like it? And they're like, oh, Russian and roulette with staple guns? Yeah. And they would pay you an extra few grand to do it. And I was like, good. They took me down on my fee, booked the gig in, and then like a week later, that automation went out, which I would not have ever sent an upsell to something that just already talked me down on price.

Speaker

And they said yes to the upsell ended up paying me more. And I was like, folks, that's going to pay the full fee. What's up, savages? I'm Alicia Conlon-Hurd, and this is Masters of Lead Generation, the podcast where I interrogate seven, eight, and nine-figure titans to expose their best-kept secrets to scaling qualified leads fast.

Speaker

No fluff, no theory, just battle-tested strategies you can unleash into your business today. Ready to dominate? Let's start today's episode. Alrighty, is email marketing dead? Well, one thing that isn't dead is today's guest, good friend of mine and a master of email marketing, Kennedy.

Speaker

Welcome to the Masters of Lead Generation podcast. You're very much alive and I'm happy to have you here. I'm so pleased to be alive that email marketing is dead. And often people think because like Kennedy, the JFK thing, they're like, isn't I'm double dead? It turns out double dead is alive.

Speaker

That's it. And so if you know math, it's called a double negative. Look it up. um Anyway, we're not here to talk about math. Let's talk facts. So you're the CEO of Marketing Heroes, a seven figure online business.

Speaker

And you are widely recognized as one of the world's foremost authorities on psychology-based email marketing. You've helped even more businesses than I can use numbers about. 7,800 businesses monetize their email lists.

Speaker

Even before some of you think that he can't help you, if they have fewer than 5,000 active subscribers. And my final fact is that you have great hair. But, so if you're on audio only, check to the YouTube. but But before we talk about how to monetize the gold mine every business is sitting on, AKA the email lists, I'm actually gonna let you tell your origin story because some people are very boring and yours is fricking awesome.

Speaker

When I was reading it in your notes, I couldn't believe you've never told me, because like we're friends and I know you. So please, Kennedy, I will stop talking now. What is your origin story of your 17 year career as a mind reader and comedian? And how did that lead you to becoming a master of email marketing?

Speaker

Right, so at school, didn't really like doing everything that everybody else did. Like, who wants to be on the sports team? I thought, not me, you know? And I just wanted to do something different. I've always like, I think I was always like this paranoid kid of like, how do I fit in? How do I, like and rather than like just go and integrate with people and be like normal, um I thought I'm gonna read lots of books and figure it out. Like, how do people work and how do they operate? And what makes people like people? I mean, I probably,

Speaker

I probably read How to Win Friends Influence People like at the age of 17 or something. like Most normal 17-year-olds are not doing that. So got into all of that, realized there was some really cool stuff you could do. and I was also interested. like I used to watch magic shows on TV. I thought, that's really cool, but I never wanted to do it. I never thought I want to learn how to do card tricks and things like that.

Speaker

wasn't really hobby I wanted to take up. But I thought, wouldn't it be interesting if you could take the skills of like understanding people and influence and what people are statistically most likely to do and turn that into some kind of show.

Speaker

And because I'm not very good at taking myself too seriously, like when I first started doing these shows, it was all, deep and mysterious and i was trying to be wonderful but i realized i can't i can't be that guy i was like i'm like this this sort of gregarious ridiculous chap with helen degenera's hair elen degenera's hair not helen degenera's hair elen degenera's hair helen degenera's is her sister um in case and that's you right yeah right um so so that started me on when i was 18 I started putting start doing shows in these like comedy nights and stuff like that, local pubs, things like that, where I would fuse together what was basically like magic, but using my head, my mind, instead of props, right? So I would have people think of stuff and figure out what they were thinking of. and have them

Speaker

I ended up um being asked by the BBC to make a TV show where I was exposing fraudulent psychics and and what they were actually doing, using a bunch of techniques, and that was really good fun.

Speaker

So I ended up... touring the world, performing for corporations and then on ridiculous luxury cruise ships, like seven and eight star cruise ships around the world doing this show where I would make people laugh and make them go, wow, everyone would have a really, really good time. And ended up working for some of the biggest companies in the world doing that.

Speaker

And that was great fun. I had a really good time. I've been able to see most of the world apart from Australia New Zealand and China. They're the only three places I've not been, which is just amazing. Like I've been to Bali and loved it. And I've been to Canada and it. been around the world and it's been just absolutely amazing be able to do this.

Speaker

But then what happened was a lot of other entertainers start getting in touch with me saying, how are you like, cause I was posting on my space or whatever the hell it was at the time. Right. I was posting online saying, Oh, I'm just here. I'm doing this. Here's a cool site. And here's a cool thing I'm doing. Here's a cool company.

Speaker

Here's the room I'm performing in tonight. because i've got to do some really cool stuff with it. And people were saying to me, how are you doing this? Like you're earning really good money. Um, and I got into like marketing because I wanted to market my shows like you don't just get booked as an entertainer people think oh you just have a really good act you're really talented and then you get booked that's just not true like any of our businesses right just because you've got a really good product that you build it they will will not come but that doesn't happen in any industry So other running entertainers asked me, how are you doing this? And I ended up launching basically a coaching program. I ended up launching a physical print newsletter, a monthly print newsletter for other entertainers, showing them how to build their careers. And I started just running that and writing that and creating that in hotel rooms, on flights and in airport departure lounges between these gigs. And I basically ended up with these two businesses, which were paying me equally as much, pretty much,

Speaker

um in this sort of micro niche of of entertainers who want to be professional. It's very small niche. I had the largest list in that space by miles and mine was only and it was only 8,000 people.

Speaker

But like most people in that niche have got like, don't know, three or 400 people on that list. So like it's comparatively huge. um And then it's like, how does how does it end up at email marketing? Well, unfortunately, it's not ah not a happy story, but I'll tell it an upbeat voice.

Speaker

like Basically, I'm ready for it. Basically, I remember being flown to Madeira, the island of made to to Madeira. And I sat on my bed, waiting about to go like do the sound check for the show.

Speaker

And I just broke down into tears. And I just sat and I looked up and there was a full length mirror opposite sort of the side of the bed. I looked at myself and I was just thinking, why are you doing this?

Speaker

Why you alone all the time? Why do you miss every wedding, engagement party, funeral? birthday of everybody who's around you.

Speaker

You know, my dad was getting older, um lost him two years ago now, but I just thought I want to be around for people. So how can I take these skills and start applying them to something that allows me to stay home more?

Speaker

Initially, that was I'll just keep running the business where I was helping other entertainers. And then eventually I got start People were asking me to go and speak at events and do online trainings ah when Zoom got invented about about how to how to apply this stuff ah to other broad broad strokes of marketing.

Speaker

The thing that was consistent though, was email. Even when I was doing my entertainment stuff, I had an Aweber account and I had i had an upsell. Like no one was doing that Like somebody would book me for an event and then a week later they would get an automated email saying, hey, I was just thinking about your event. I'm really looking forward to it, but I could do this really cool thing where um we get a bunch of staple, and got industrial staple guns.

Speaker

We fill one of them with staples. We'll leave the rest of them empty. You mix them up and I fire them into my eyes. How do you like it? And they're like, oh, Russian roulette with staple guns? Yeah. And they would pay you an extra few grand to do it. And I was like, cool. So I was like crazy, but also using upsells back then.

Speaker

And then from then on, I've always been interested in how do we nurture relationships across the internet, across in a way that's much more not passive. I didn't really care so much about it being like the fact it was automated. So it was passive.

Speaker

What I cared about is that it was consistent, right? That's what was really important. really I always remember that was this gig came in, it was for an animal charity and of course they pulled on my heartstrings and they talked me down on my price for my show by like 50% and I was like, okay, fine, but you know, the poor the puppies, the puppies, think about the puppies.

Speaker

So they tore me down on my fee, booked the gig in. And then like a week later, that automation went out, which I would not have ever sent an upsell something that's just already talked me down on price. And they said yes to the upsell and ended up paying me more. And I was like, those bastards going to pay the whole fee.

Speaker

They can always pay the full fee. They can always pay the full fee. They can always pay the full fee. They just don't want to. Yeah. Yeah. And none of us do. That's just human psychology. That's how we all want to feel like we're getting a deal. Like that's just how it is.

Speaker

um So yeah. So this predictability of automation, and this ability to communicate and and nurture and deepen relationships and have people really feel like they know you.

Speaker

through email. It was like the first ever reality TV show, really. you Like, email's like, because people are getting an insight to your life, but we'll we'll definitely get into that in a bit. So yeah, the origin story is started off as a psychological mind reader slash comedian at conferences, fly around the world, got lonely, decided to come home and work and work from home. That's what happened.

Speaker

Yeah, it's cooler than mine. Mine's like, I was going to be a dentist, but then I didn't, and then I did a marketing degree, and now here I am. um Yours is cooler. Did you ever wear a cape? I don't think I've ever worn a cape.

Speaker

I don't think I've ever... No, not all heroes wear capes. I know, okay. So when it comes to email marketing, because there's a lot that we're gonna dive into today, I think the the first place that we should start is like, what are people getting wrong, right?

Speaker

What I find really frustrating is that like when I'm working with lead generation businesses, They spend all of this money to get leads, right? We spend all this money on ads, all of this money. And then that person doesn't buy straight away.

Speaker

And all they do is they just discard that lead to rot and die in their email list. And they do nothing with it because that person didn't want to buy on on their time, right?

Speaker

And your email list, in my opinion, and please correct me if it's wrong, should be like a lead generation channel. It should be a strategic lead generation channel Why do you think people ignore their email list and what are people getting wrong or what are the big like misconceptions about the email list?

Speaker

What's really, really interesting about when I talk to so many businesses who are in this exact situation, they're like, I wish I could and put my ad spend. i wish I could get more leads in. I say, what's the actual problem you're trying to solve? They're like more sales. I'm like, oh, it's not about having more leads because you can't pay the bills with leads.

Speaker

You can pay the bills with sales. So why don't we look at the whole piece around around sales And I think the reason that people don't do that is they sort of don't know what to say. They're like, well, I've sort of told them about my offer and they've either ghosted me or they've said flat out, absolutely. No, that's not for me.

Speaker

And no for me in sales is always just a not yet, isn't that I was told? Like it's a no, not yet. And you know, cause people's lives changes, their situation changes, they change business, they change direction, they change focus.

Speaker

So one of the things that I'm really interested in and and bear in mind, I had to get good at this because in the micro niche I was in, I could only have 8,000 leads.

Speaker

So i was like, i have to mine that list for as many people as humanly possible to turn into sales. That's the only reason I got good at this was because of necessity. It's not because, oh, I just want to be become good at this.

Speaker

So what we have to do is get really good at presenting the offer in brand new ways. Dress it up in a different outfit, put a different frock on it, do something different to make it appeal in different ways.

Speaker

So people often screw up segmentation. They think, oh, I'm doing email marketing, so I need to do segmentation. And then their brain, you know they they go crazy, that that their brain goes goes fried.

Speaker

because of segmentation. The truth is, segmentation doesn't need to be that difficult. Segmentation can be really, really simple. In fact, basic segmentation for most businesses needs to be just two segments. It needs to be subscribers who have not bought yet, and it needs to be buyers who have bought.

Speaker

And if we think of our list and there in just those two ways, then when when we show up to do some kind of promotional campaign, some marketing campaign, we just get to pick, oh, who do I want to create a campaign for? So just this last week, I picked the non-buyer segment because truthfully, the non-buyer segment is our biggest segment ever.

Speaker

And it's our biggest opportunity for sales because statistically speaking, according to really clever people, definitely not me, um say that the that when someone becomes a buyer, they are 50% more likely to buy something else in the future.

Speaker

That's what the data says, right? So if that's the case, our job, we should obsess over getting new leads to buy something. Honestly, anything.

Speaker

Because when they do that, they've done something really important. They've made a commitment, not just to you, but they've made a commitment within themselves, psychologically speaking. The principle of um of commitment and consistency that Robert Czardini talks about in his book, psychology Influence of Psychology Persuasion. When somebody makes an outward declaration that this is what I do, I am a customer of your business, that becomes part of their identity.

Speaker

They have an identity shift within themselves. They don't know it, they don't think it, they can't see it, smell it, taste it, or i touch it, but it is it's hardwired within their psyche. So what we want to do is move someone's identity from being subscriber to customer.

Speaker

So all we do is we obsess over what are some different ways we can get somebody to change that identity, to move from segment A, subscriber, into segment B, customer. So just this last week, I did exactly that. i was like, cool, let's go with a brand new, interesting way that...

Speaker

jiggles the mouse cursor in our subscribers minds and wakes them up out of screensaver mode, which is what they are, they're like coasting, they've fallen asleep, jiggle it in their mind, You know, roots for life, jiggle it in their mind, right? um And how do we get them to pay attention? Because this is new and this resets attention.

Speaker

The biggest problem we all have is the attention of our leads. And that's what we need to obsess over. How do we get it? How do we keep it? How do we reset it over and over and over again?

Speaker

a I love how you talk about reframing the offer. Because if you keep on being like, do you want this burger? And someone's like, no And then you're like, what about now? It's like, well, no, okay, that didn't work.

Speaker

Maybe you're still going to say sell the same thing, but how can we reposition it? How can we put it into... um How can we reframe it? And this is what we used to do a lot when I was working in like much bigger info info space is like, okay, we've got the same offer, but now we can start to get data on people and and do very advanced segmentation and test out how to to dress that up.

Speaker

With with us with with PX, we have a very high ticket agency, but because we do a lot of content, like just as an example to talk about what you're saying, like let's get a ah list of buyers, right? That's the goal, you don't want leads, you want buyers. And once somebody buys from you, they're much more likely to buy from you again, right? But it's very, there's lot more friction to get a subscriber to become a buyer. There's a lot more in the way.

Speaker

So we have a very low ticket product, a front of house, it's our offer workshop, it's three hours. 17 bucks and it's awesome. There's an upsell, 147, that goes at about 15%.

Speaker

Speaker

And so when we're ready to launch new things, we've been like curating this list list of buyers. um And so for lead generation businesses, a way that they can do that is one, you can splinter off your offer, right?

Speaker

Like don't try and be trying to close them high ticket all the time. It's very first order thinking. Figure out, okay, how can you bring them in for one small problem? Because it doesn't have to be an info product. How can you bring them in for for one small problem?

Speaker

um I'm not sure if you have any examples of where you've helped somebody or you've seen that where they're like, no one's buying from me. And you're like, yeah, why don't we like do something smaller and curate a list of buyers? Yeah, it's exactly this. So I'll give you an example just from our own business, okay? So we have our main headline product.

Speaker

It's called the Email Hero Blueprint. And it's basically an A to Z of everything email marketing. that The plan when creating it was you'll never need to buy an email marketing course ever again because it is everything from deliverability through to what write and all that stuff.

Speaker

That's a complex offer, right? That is a a deep understanding um and a higher commitment offer. Not massively high ticket. It runs around two grand-ish, depending on the offer situation.

Speaker

But if I keep going to my list and be like, hey, you want to spend two grand? Hey, you' want to spend two grand? Hey, going spend two grand? Some people are going to want to do that. like And that's let's just talk about the attention of the market for a second before we get into how we splinter it.

Speaker

When someone first joins your email list, you don't know their current situation in terms of their motivations for solving the problem. Some people are joining your list because they're like hopping into the emergency room with their leg hanging off, blood spurting up the walls, and they're like, doctor, please save me before I blade bleed out on the floor.

Speaker

If you don't offer your higher ticket, your complete solution at that point, you are literally saying no to solving those problems and making those sales. So we have to do that first. But after we've done that, that's going to have a small percentage conversion rate.

Speaker

That's fine. But it also means we set the... We set the price anchoring of like, this is how much value, this is how much things are. So anything that comes after that is being framed by that initial offer.

Speaker

right? It's like that first impression. When you first meet someone, you first see someone, we're making all these judgments. If the first thing you see from somebody is, this thing is cheap, this thing is whatever, that is the first impression. And of course, yes, you can turn that around and let people know this is just a sample.

Speaker

That's fine. And that works very, very, very well. Or you can show people actually here's a big, big price. And then everything else after that looks like a smaller number.

Speaker

So how do we actually do that is we can grab one of the elements of the entire program. So let's even take it. We'll take it to our business. Then we'll take it into like a a physical products business like makeup or something like that.

Speaker

But in our business, we can grab one of the 47 different email sequence campaigns that are in our blueprint and say, like we did this week, hey, do you want to just buy this one for $97?

Speaker

huh, okay, I can take, that's gonna solve a very specific problem. The messaging completely changes, I'm saying something new. It sounds like a different product. It's not. Because of this principle called all roads lead to Roam.

Speaker

Everything we should be doing in our business should lead ultimately to Roam, to the Roam offer. For us, that's email hero blueprint. For you, that's your PX um agency service.

Speaker

So off the back of every single offer that I make, there is always an opportunity for them to see the Rome offer and go, this is the destination. Are you ready to go there yet? No. Okay, that's cool. How about this time? You just bought this other thing. You just commit to this other thing. You ready to go there yet? No.

Speaker

What that allows you to do, if all roads lead to Rome, is you get the compound effect of all of your marketing. Most people's marketing is actually wasting a lot of budget and attention.

Speaker

And the reason it's doing that is you're like, Hey, I'm promoting this over there. I'm promoting this and it's putting their attention over there. Remember our job as a person who's a thought leader, as a person who's controlling the attention of people in our inboxes and in people's minds is to control their attention and make sure we're not distracting them.

Speaker

So let's say I came along and said, Oh, I've found out my friends got this really good offer. It's about, um, it's not something semi-related to the niche, but it's not particularly right. And it doesn't lead to my Roam offer.

Speaker

Well, if I'm just pushing people off in that direction, and they're never coming back to the Roam offer, I'm not receiving the compound effect of that. Whereas if everything I do on the back of it, hey, you buy this little thing, ultimately some of those people will turn the Roam offer.

Speaker

You buy this other thing, some people end up turning to the Roam offer. It means we end up with the compound effect of all these things and then new ways of dressing them up. So I might grab one of my email campaigns and be like, hey, do you want to buy this? And they're like, yeah, it's $97. Great.

Speaker

And then then maybe there's a workshop upsell on the back of that. Great. OK, now they spent like $300. Cool. Hey, do you know what? For like another $1,700, you could upgrade and get all of this cool stuff. That's cool.

Speaker

Because I've also now re-presented, re-dressed the offer as not $2,000, but now it's $1,700.

Speaker

So these are just ways of saying, okay, what's different ways of reducing commitment, reducing perceived commitment, same in memberships. You've got like a membership. This works great. You've got a membership and you've got like lots of little programs in that rather than somebody paying you 97 a month, you might show up and say, Hey, do you want just this little training for $20? And they go, yeah. Then on the next page, you're like, Oh, for like 60 extra dollars, you can unlock the rest of the membership. Do you want to get that?

Speaker

but there's a different commitment level, right? If I'm saying, hey, give me $97 a month, you're thinking I need to pay $97 today. That's one commitment because it's a price commitment of how much is coming out bank today.

Speaker

And then the second commitment I'm making at that point is I'm thinking I'm going to pay this every single month. It's a new bill I'm going to pay. Whereas if next week I show up and I say, you want to pay $20 today and that's it for this one campaign?

Speaker

Very different level of commitment.

Speaker

new way of representing that offer. I love that reframe or that way to think about it, that all roads lead to Rome. Because I've seen this so many times where people will create all these other offers because they'll shiny object syndrome.

Speaker

And I wish I had that language to say, does that lead to your Rome offer? Or are you sending them on weird side quests that you don't want your main character, which don't come back, they go off into weird, weird directions.

Speaker

But if you think about in video game, right, in video games, yeah when you do a side quest, When you finish it, you you go ah and you come back to the quest. Otherwise you'll be like, all right, um how do I get him to to the to the pot of gold? How do I get him there?

Speaker

Or how do I get her there? And yeah, it has to come back. You have to get them back on track to the the destination that you've set out for them. Like your entire business basically has a singular destination.

Speaker

And so if we have to remember to realign people with that destination and all roads lead to Rome. So every time you're putting a new offer out, you've got to be thinking, is this helping new subscribers who are not customers yet?

Speaker

Is it helping turn them into, is it activating customers? And when it does, is it moving them toward being a really desirable prospect for the Roam offer?

Speaker

There is another segment of the list, of course, which is subscribers, i sorry, customers. And that is those people, our job is to turn them into more profitable customers because Of course, as we said, they're 50% more likely to buy stuff.

Speaker

So there are going to be offers we only design for those people. But really, looking at those leads and converting them, if you just obsess over how can I, what is the most ridiculous thing I can do to make that person go, are you joking? Of course I'm going to buy this.

Speaker

i'm We both inhale to talk at the same time. I'm thinking of like how to apply this for industries that we work a lot in. right so We work a lot in finance, ah property investment, like like health and wellness, and a lot in coaches and consultants.

Speaker

But I'm thinking in the property space. so When we make our offers, it's to get people on the phone. so We do these like really good legion offers. We build lots of value. You get a um like It's a proposal, but it's like dressed up in a nice frock, as you might say.

Speaker

But I'm thinking, okay, what would be like other offers we can have in market? We've cleared the room, those offers are going to bring in market leads, and it's like, hmm, would it be something like a calculator? like Am I trying to splinter off smaller problems? like It would be a calculator like figure out your borrowing capacity or like figure out um how much passive income you need until you've hit your financial freedom goal.

Speaker

they would they opt into that or buy that, like not a lead magnet. It would be like, buy this for $1, and then have an upsell. And then probably on the delivery page have some sort of video where it's like, hey, this is what we do. Here's my all roads lead to Rome offer. If you want that, hit the button on this page. Otherwise, enjoy your product.

Speaker

And then we move them through the email. Am I picking up what you're putting down? That's exactly it And I think, and you can sp split like a property offer. So I've worked with some people in the property education space and often their their educational package will have lots of elements to it. They'll be teaching how to do, how to do, how to build their own buy to let portfolio, but they'll also be showing people how to do other stuff that i don't understand in property. Right.

Speaker

I'll say take one of those things. Like, is it like how to get your first buy to let with no money down? Because if that's one of the strategies you teach in your entire program, let people buy that specific ah specific outcome.

Speaker

And this is really even more useful for complex offers where there are lots of elements to it. Because when you break out one... piece of the entire jigsaw puzzle and say, do you want to just solve this one problem in this particular way? It's it's a much, much easier yes.

Speaker

It's much easier to write the copy for. It's much be easier to communicate. It's a much easier yes for the prospect. And it's also a much easier yes because of the lack of commitment. But you brought up a really good point about lead magnets.

Speaker

And i I taught a class the other the other month. You know those things you think, surely everyone's doing this. And then you think it's not like, you think it's going to be a great class, it'll be valuable. But you don't realize how profound it is going to be. And it's been the class that I've been asked to deliver this class now in like 20 or 30 different people's communities because it it seems to have really rocked how people think of it.

Speaker

The way we've all been taught to think about lead magnets has been, okay, let's look at the customer and look at what their problems are, how they try to solve the problem. It's all been very customer focused.

Speaker

And one day was sitting in my thinking so thinking chair, ah not a real place, and I was thinking, why do we do that? Why don't we design lead magnets around the Roam offer?

Speaker

So we look at the Rome offer and go, okay, how do I find perfect prospects to buy this? Not just the perfect prospect in the marketplace. Because there is a difference between all perfect prospects who all have a problem, which is what our general lead magnets will appeal to.

Speaker

They're going to be more problem aware type people, shall we say. Rather than going, okay, i want I only want to have leads that come in who are predisposed, pre-set up to want to buy products.

Speaker

the Roam offer. So not just any old lead. And that means the transition from lead to Roam offer a buyer becomes way simpler because you're only attracting the people who are the right type of person who will buy the Roam offer. us So I would really urge everyone to start thinking about their lead magnets, paid or free. like i'm goingnna I'm going to categorize them together. like However you're generating a brand new um person who's going about their business and to come into your business for the first time,

Speaker

paid offery, how are we generating them in a way that they are predisposed to be the type of buyer who buys the Roam offer? And when you start doing that, you'll start seeing adjustments. and It's amazing, it sounds very, very simple, and most people will go, I think I'm kind of doing that.

Speaker

But if you just do it from scratch and go, hang on, what would my lead magnet be if it was just based on the Roam offer? And you'll find you come with a very different answer.

Speaker

I very much resonate with that when I've worked with ah clients or businesses and they want to do this lead magnet and it sounds really good on paper, but I'm like, but but what's the point of it? Like every touch point in marketing has a point, right? And all we're doing is getting a series of micro yeses and to use your language to get them to purchase the Roam offer at the end. So doing this like crazy lead magnet that's gonna get thousands and thousands of subs onto your email list, it's not the goal. The goal of that asset is to get people to raise their hand that are future potential buyers, not people who are interested in your free shit. Like that's not what we're trying to do here, right?

Speaker

Okay, let's get actionable with it um because I've got a lot of fire around questions I might hit you at the end with. So I want to start taking, you've given us like a great framework of how to think.

Speaker

I want to start drilling it down into what can we do? What are the frameworks? how can How can people start to think about this and actually implement it, right? So is the best place to start thinking about what email flows that we should have set up?

Speaker

Yeah, I think so. I think what's really nice is once you know the value of a lead within 30 days, which is basically when the credit card bill comes out, once we really focus on the ah ROI window being that 30 days after the new lead generated, then we can be much more aggressive with with lead growth.

Speaker

um It's definitely on paid ads. So and that's, I think a big thing that is sometimes easy to forget. It's kind of it's just a fundamental of advertising is extend the ah ROI window and suddenly you'll see how effective something is.

Speaker

It's all about how long you can go negative or cashflow something for. Right. Um, so, but we're gonna, we're gonna assume everyone's there with that and saying, okay, I don't need to make an ah ROI on day one or day three, we're gonna say it's 30 days because that's how long a credit card gives you just.

Speaker

Just to keep it simple, obviously other credit options are available. This is not an endorsement for credit. Sort yourself out, please. Have a word. um so

Speaker

After someone's joined your email list, what we have to remember is for every moment they're on your email list, their attention is waning. You were the most attractive, best thing since sliced bread at the moment they opted in.

Speaker

And every moment of every day, they're being hit by other people's ads, other people's offers, and they're now taking the top spot of priority. So what we have to do is capture um and then maintain and then keep resetting people's attention for these next few days.

Speaker

So how do we do that in a practical sense? Well, we start off with something I already hinted at and then we're going to get into some stuff that I haven't talked about. And that is we're going start off by dealing with those urgent buyer type psychologies. They joined your email list because they're like, oh, my gosh, my leg is hanging off.

Speaker

You're the doctor. You've got the right needle. You do it in the right way. You do the right kind of stitching. I want you to fix my leg. So we need to present the offer to those people first. And we do that using a sales focused, a sales led campaign.

Speaker

Okay, I'm going to give you framework that holds all this together called the SCORE framework. S-C-O-R-E. The SCORE framework. And the S is sales. It's a sales led campaign.

Speaker

And that is literally ah campaign and email sequence that moves people to your usual major call to action. It's the appointment booking page, it's the sales page, it's the webinar registration page, whatever it is that get that you use as your is your major ah conversion mechanism.

Speaker

So that's what it's going to do. And going to do that using using all of the normal sales based things. Have you got this problem? Would you like to solve it really quickly? Here, have a look at this kind of very simple kind of stuff.

Speaker

And a small percentage of people who are the people hopping into the emergency room like hanging off, those people are going to be the ones who buy at that point. But also. you have now anchored your positioning and your pricing of your roam offer. You've introduced it, okay?

Speaker

um So that later, when you talk about your roam offer off the back of something else, there is something really critical to ah to human psychology, which is familiarity.

Speaker

Oh, I've heard of that. That feels safe. It's the reason so many pop songs like Katy Perry and stuff have made these massive hits by psychologically engineering their music to be hits using what feels familiar. That's why a lot of dance music uses samples of songs we love.

Speaker

Why? Because people love and feel, they love familiarity because they feel safe and familiarity. Because they feel like, I already know I like this. When they hear that little jingle, they hear that little phrase, they hear your product name.

Speaker

I've heard of that. And that reduces risk. It increases and opens up our ability to be accepting of let's find out what that offer is. It has the same effect of traditional advertising when you're seeing that TV ad over and over again.

Speaker

I trust that company because I've heard about it a lot. So we're we're setting all of that up. and able to help those urgent buyer types using the S, the sales led campaign.

Speaker

And we've also, of course, anchored the pricing and positioning. Really important piece. So that's going to be anywhere between four and six days. The other thing I want to do, sorry.

Speaker

No, I just said, awesome. i love it. And I remember you talking about and telling me about this at AdCon and I was like, yes, like I'm excited for everybody to hear the rest of it because it makes so much sense how you explain it and it really demystifies how to do emails. So please, sir, carry on. I would like to hear more. Subscribe.

Speaker

So, the The next thing that's happening and something I didn't share with you at AdCon was the thing that's happening parallel to that, which is building up trust and actually enhancing and amplifying the relationship with that person. And we do something at that point called a trust accelerator campaign.

Speaker

And that's running parallel. So maybe just to keep it simple, in the morning, they're getting an email, which is about the sales campaign. And later in the yeah early evening, they might be getting a trust accelerator email.

Speaker

The reason you can, quote unquote, get away or be forgiven, be a allowed to send two emails in a day is because in that trust accelerator campaign, First of all, a really good way of getting away with anything is to tell people how long it's going to go on for.

Speaker

Because if you get two emails made from me a day and you're thinking, I don't want two emails a day from this guy forever. Like, that's going to be too much. So in the subject line, I simply put email one of four. So they know this is a finite fixed series.

Speaker

And they're like, OK, cool. I can deal with it. i know when it's going to stop. It's a bit like the fairground ride that you're on and you hate it. You're about to puke. But you know it's one minute. You're gonna just, you know, it's gonna stop at some point, I'm done, I can get off.

Speaker

People are much more forgiving when they know they can get off. And the Trust Accelerator sequence, the point of that is to move people to a heightened, deeper level of relationship with you as quickly as possible.

Speaker

The way we do that is two things. One, we're gonna show them other places they can connect with you. Hey, I've got a private podcast, go listen to that. which means they can hear my voice.

Speaker

Great. Cause when someone hears your voice, we know it's an intimate experience. Hey, I've got a YouTube channel. Go watch that. Uh, I've got this, uh, free Facebook group. It's called the email marketing show community.

Speaker

Go find Facebook, find the email marketing show community. Come and join us there. We're saying all these things and those emails. And we're also telling a little bit of our, of why we don't tell our story.

Speaker

Most people mostly don't care about that. They care about your unique ability to solve their problem. And that's different telling your origin story. Your origin story is kind of bit self-centered. You have to flip your origin story into being why you have a unique ability, a unique positioning to able solve their problem.

Speaker

They're quite different and nuanced. The second thing that's really interesting about the the Trust Accelerator sequence is... They get to binge it. At the end of each of those emails, you tease what's coming in tomorrow's email. Hey, tomorrow i'm going to reveal to you the XYZ way that we do this thing.

Speaker

If you can't wait till tomorrow, click here and get tomorrow's email today. They can click the email and tomorrow's email arrives immediately. This is going to do a bunch of things. It allows people to accelerate their own relationship with you on their terms.

Speaker

It appeals to the psychology of today, which is binging Netflix, which is where I got the idea from. Like, I want to watch the next one. I want to watch the next one. And email deliverability-wise, I'm not going to get into the technical stuff of email today, but if people are clicking on your emails and then they're clicking to get the next email and they open that next email and they click on that one too, Gmail and its mates get very excited.

Speaker

and go, oh, this person's emails are fucking great. So they start giving you really good inbox placement from the beginning of your relationship. And this is all happening. So that's a four day sequence happening at the same time as this sort of six day-ish sequence of of of sales sequence.

Speaker

In those days, you are getting a lot of engagement, which is setting you up for a deeper relationship. Because remember, if you're gonna go on a date with somebody, And they're like, oh when do you want to go on the second day? Because it really well. You had a lovely dinner. You had a little smooch at the end of it. Smooch, what is it? 80s.

Speaker

Or had a little, you know, a bit of a snog at the end of it. And then they go, great. And they were texting afterwards. And they said, when do you want to get together again? Because it went really well. I really like you. You're really nice. And they go, yeah.

Speaker

um What about next month? And they'd be like, what? When we want to accelerate a relationship, we're like, what are you doing Friday?

Speaker

We're going to do the same thing. It's all about relationships. It's all about the human psychology of relationships, right? So again, they're choosing. I want to go faster. I want to go faster. Click if you want to. Scream if you want to go fast.

Speaker

Click if you want to go faster. That's what they're choosing. And they're choosing. And we're going to do all that in the first six days. Any questions about that phase? I'm just excited. I'm excited to listen back to this podcast episode and and like study it and redo our email marketing.

Speaker

And I say you redo so you don't judge me. So it sounds like I actually have a current strategy, which like we kind of do, but it's very you know like I have some stuff going on, but not to this level.

Speaker

And I just love how much you understand about marketing. psychology, biases, and how you actually implement it into real world, like ways to to make this. So no questions, that was more of a comment. Please search, tell me C. Tell me number C, I'm ready.

Speaker

OK, so the next is is content. The C stands for content. And that is, if we now, after six days of telling them about the offer, if we just keep telling them about the offer, they're going to disengage.

Speaker

We're going to lose their attention. And that's not good for them because we can't solve their problem. It's not good for us because that is money down the drain. So we're going to completely switch strategy. Remember, our subscribers, just to set the obvious because it's easy to forget this, our subscribers don't know they're in an automation.

Speaker

And they don't know that they've just finished automation one, S, and they don't know they've just started automation two, C. They don't know that. They just know that yesterday they got an email from you about this thing, and today they get a different email about you from you about a different thing.

Speaker

That's all they know. Their perspective is very linear. And yeah it's really important that when we're building, and this is the big change, I think, that when I started talking about this a number of years ago, we don't think about our email marketing as something that we do. What we're going to do next, what we're going to do next, no What are they going to experience next?

Speaker

what What are they going to see next? What do they get? what What are they feeling? what are that What is the gap? i often talk about I used to do a keynote called Mind the Gap. and It was looking at, in our in our workflows, in our in our marketing, where are the little gaps that they can fall out fall through?

Speaker

Because that's where the money's falling through. The coins are dripping through those places. So the C allows us to. Show up with a piece of content-led sales material. And that's really important. It is not just content. It's not, hey, I've got a great YouTube video.

Speaker

Watch this. Have at it. Isn't it lovely? It's a piece of content that transitions into an offer. But it is framed very much as content. So there is where you show up and you teach your unique mechanism.

Speaker

It's where you teach one of your unique mechanisms. So I might show up and teach the score engine. Hey, here's the way that I was able to turn able to make between $20 and $35 per subscriber per month when I was running this membership. Here's how I did it.

Speaker

And I take them through the score engine, the thing I'm sharing with you today. And they go, oh shit, that's great. And you say, cool, by the way, that's just one of the elements of and our entire program. And now I'm and i'm transitioning into offer.

Speaker

But they have learned something. There is something valuable they didn't know before. And it's come from a place of teaching, which means the emails have got like little animated gifs from the video. So they can go, oh, I'm going to watch a video.

Speaker

um You're gonna make the pages like that that they go to, but I have this content on very plain. you know We'll often like have just just a video, maybe a title above it, but sometimes not even that.

Speaker

And then we'll have the offer call to action button and summary appear later. Because it needs to be that they're going to watch a piece of content. They're going with the mindset of, I'm going to learn something. and Of course, in that process, we're going to evoke all of the fears that they've got, the problems, the consequences of the problems that they're facing.

Speaker

We're going to do all of that. by showing how our unique mechanism, that whichever unique mechanism we're displaying, solves that. And they go, wow, this is great. I've learned the unique mechanism. And now I want to be able to do it.

Speaker

So I need to have the call, have the coach, have the, buy the program. So content led sales. And that doesn't have to just be a video. People often think, oh, that's to be a video. We have content led campaigns in our blueprint, which start with a survey. i know one of the things that you and I both love is a good survey.

Speaker

And we have a, um, a campaign called the Phantom campaign and the Phantom campaign is really about using a survey to create phantom pain within the prospect so it's really about saying what's more difficult for you this painful thing or that painful thing and they're like oh god they're wrong both really freaking painful but if i have to pick it's that one like i do a lot of these sort of binary non-choices of like you know what what would it mean what what's more important to you as an i do this on a webinar as well i'll often say um i have a side one about webinars which is pretty cool um

Speaker

it it may I make it look like the TV show, who wants to be a millionaire like that whole that slide. So it comes up and and the question comes up with four possible answers. and I'm like, if you could really solve the problems of your email marketing right now, which is the one of these outcomes that would mean the most to you? And I've just got four amazing outcomes to have total freedom and do whatever I want um to have more money in the bank than like all these really to to travel the world, to send my kids to private school.

Speaker

And then I say, I know it's tough, you probably want all of them, but if if I make you choose which one, which one will it be? If you give people four or three or two, if you give them any kind of choice, whether choice is really hard because they want all of them, guess what they have to do in their minds?

Speaker

They have to deeply consider and imagine having each of those outcomes. Because if they don't do that, they can't pick the right one. And the most the problem that most marketing has is it doesn't actually get somebody to stop and force them to actually think.

Speaker

If we get them to stop and start actually imagining. like Imagine if you could do marketing in the form of a meditation, where somebody is immersed in the message.

Speaker

You've got their attention. They're deeply imagining and future pacing themselves. That's really powerful. And questions get us to do that. So again, that's one of the things we do. So there's that's another kind of content campaign. It could be a written blog post.

Speaker

It could be, it doesn't even have to be your content. We've designed these before where you go to the niche and you find the biggest name in that niche. So, hey, oh, Mel Robbins has this really good video, which kind of makes my point for me. I'm going to borrow some of her credibility.

Speaker

going to put that on one of my, I'm going to embed that YouTube video on my page. and then have Mel do her bit and then have a bit of stuff underneath or have a click here for part two or click here for my yeah my autopsy of what of what Mel just said and how to apply it.

Speaker

And then that's the pitch. Oh, if you want to apply what Mel just said in that thing, one of the challenges is this, here's how we solve it. thatta yeah It can be anything that is not selling. A survey, a video,

Speaker

And audio works extremely well because they're much more consumable and much more bingeable than video because it's much more passive. So that's what a content led campaign does. Hmm.

Speaker

And, We have S, that's six days. And for the score system, is this segmentation just subscribers who have not purchased? Or are you also, okay, We're focusing on subscribers who have not purchased. Pretty much. I mean, if we want to zoom in a little bit in the content.

Speaker

ah So yes, this this whole thing, remember, is all going to be just selling the Rome offer. Yes. That's why we're able to get such multiples of results. um We did it. We did it. I had my um my tech guy do some um research about three years ago. So I just want you to know this is three years out of date data, but it's bloody impressive. No, two years out of date. I'm sorry. Only two years.

Speaker

um And we compared how many sales we made just from the sales sequence, which is what most people have in place to have a sales sequence compared to having the score in place. The difference.

Speaker

Speaker

well So it's not like it doubles it. It is insane. But of course it does. It makes sense. Because we're not just saying the same thing over again. We're appealing to the five different psychological buyer triggers that cause different types of people to buy.

Speaker

Whereas if you just appeal to the urgent buyer type, who's the one who's ready to buy, the but the bottom of the funnel most aware person, then if you do that over and over again, which is what most lead gen businesses do, they're like, who's closest to the whole? Let's grab them while they're fresh.

Speaker

Right? That was a golfing analogy and nothing rude. Just the way you did that little snigger there. I think you thought it was ruder than it was supposed to be. Naughty. Take them to the hole. Okay, next. Take me to the... Yeah. so um But there is another bit of segmentation you can do want to get really specific. And that is... So, yeah. Sorry. the The macro segmentation here is have they bought the roam offer or not?

Speaker

Okay. They're still going to say the Skull Engine. In the content campaign, what we all I think always, I think always, I can't think of an exception off the top of my head.

Speaker

If they consume the content but don't buy, we will tag and segment saying they consumed the content but didn't buy. So we'll put them in a more intensive follow-up sequence saying we'll use the because therefore frame, which is because you did this thing.

Speaker

because you saw value in learning how to outcome that you taught in the content, we think you, therefore, we think you will be a really good fit and you will get value and you will be a great case study for us in in our Y program, in our program.

Speaker

So we'll often use that because therefore frame. The reason you use a because therefore frame, by the way, it, it actually elicits commitment and consistency from people's minds. It says, remember how you committed to this? And by committed, we mean you spent five, eight, 12, 20 minutes watching that video because you spent time and remind them of that because you invested eight minutes of your valuable time watching that video and really understanding it. We understand that this is a really important topic to you right now. Otherwise, obviously, all the people who didn't watch that, they don't get it right now. you know You're going to make them feel special.

Speaker

That's getting into copywriting a little more than we probably want to. But again, we're going to use these frames. As you say, it's really important to use psychology in a practical way. A lot of people talk about, and they think and no they dont understand they understand psychology.

Speaker

I can tell you, when you've got staple guns where one of them is loaded and the others are empty, the psychology has to really, really fucking work. Like I don't just lose the sale. I'll use, I'll lose my sight. Right. So, um, yeah, it has to work.

Speaker

So that's what the, uh, that's what the C in score stands for. How many days? Yes. how many days How many days? That's going to vary. That is going to vary. Um, it's going to vary in two ways. It's going to vary depending on what campaign you want to run.

Speaker

Usually I'll run, um, the emails, um, to the, just the content piece for three to four days. Yeah. Using again, different reasons to go and enjoy the content. And then, If they buy, of course, they immediately they won't get the follow up conversion element of that sequence.

Speaker

um And that that conversion element will usually be another four days. Yeah, something like that. um If it's a longer piece of content, you might want to do a few extra emails. But again, you are talking less than a week usually.

Speaker

Got it. No further questions right now. Tell me about i Oh. So at this point in the journey, you've had some people who have urgently bought. Everybody now in the whole list, even if they haven't bought, knows what your roam offer is. Great.

Speaker

We've had some people who are the researcher type so so psychology who like want to know a bit more and understand. The content is going to satisfy those people. But now you've got a bunch of people who believe they cannot buy because of something they are fixated on, because of the objection they are ah obsessing over.

Speaker

And that's what the O stands for, objection. What we're going to do here is this is where ah survey is the best thing to do. Um, funny story. So what we do is we send out an email that says, Hey, I've been telling you about this really cool thing that you joined my email list again, using that because therefore you join my email as you're in my world because you want to fix this problem.

Speaker

I've been telling you about this really cool thing. My room offer, I think it's really going to help you, but you've not enrolled yet. And I just would love to get some feedback about why you haven't done that. I've got a one question survey on the next page. I would really be grateful if you would just give me a heads up and just click one button. There's no typing. You're going to click a button.

Speaker

They click the link, they go to the this one question survey, and you say, hey, Why haven't you enrolled in? Or why haven't you applied for a call? Or whatever the CTA is.

Speaker

And you give them up to, I mean, the maximum I've ever coached anybody on an implement for somebody was eight. Really, I'm looking for six of the main reasons that they might not have.

Speaker

The one reason you must, must, must put in there, and learned this by not doing it, is, so in our case, it's called the Email Hero Blueprint. um what I don't know what the email hero blueprint is.

Speaker

Because regardless of all your marketing, there are still a whole bunch of people who've been busy. They didn't click the links. They didn't check it out. So if there's not that option you're going to get a lot of replies going, I don't even know what the product is. And of course, and then you're going have, I feel like I can't afford it right now.

Speaker

Notice that it doesn't say I can't afford it. It's I feel and right now. Again, very important language, which are non-committal. They're very the very movable parameters.

Speaker

um I'm not sure it'll work for my type of business as another, you know, or my type of house if you're doing pools or something like that, right? um So again, you want to have those major objections and you want to just chunk them into, I would say six feels the least intimidating.

Speaker

They choose an option on the very next page. There's a video from you helping them with that. When you help them with that, I've worked ah really hard on figuring out the like the best psychological way to overcome an outright objection in this way.

Speaker

The best way I've seen so far is this. It's to not, obviously it's not to say, you're wrong, that's not an objection, you're lunatic, right? It's not that. Instead, it's to tell them why that objection is the exact reason they need the thing.

Speaker

Case in point, one of the things we all get is I feel like I can't afford it right now. So they choose email here a Blueprint, feel like I can't afford it right now on the next page. I'm like, hey, it's Kennedy.

Speaker

Hey, just speaking business owner, a business owner right now. I totally get it, right? not be We all have cash flow. We need to figure out where we should be spending our money. one of the things I do know is that when we're building our businesses, if we do have bad cash flow, we need to do activity that improves our cash flow.

Speaker

If you look at all the different things that you're doing in your business right now, if they are not improving your cash flow, there's some of those things that you're doing that you shouldn't be doing. They're a waste of time. You're doing some of the wrong things.

Speaker

One of the things i love is that whenever I need a jolt of cash flow to pay a bill, to invest in a program, to do whatever I want to do, to get that coach, to do the thing that's really going to help me, that I know is really going help me, is I can send an email to my list, a really simple four-day sequence, and get a surge of cash.

Speaker

I would love you to have that ability as well. So I'm taking the very reason they cannot, they have objected, and saying, that's the reason you need this.

Speaker

Does that make sense? It does. I'm picking up what you're putting down and I absolutely love it. And it's a sales principle as well, right? Never argue with the objection. Yes. Yes. You're valid.

Speaker

And now like, let's like, let's talk about why you're wrong in a roundabout way. So at any point, in sales, like the S, the C, the if somebody takes up the offer, and let's say in lead gen, it might be an an application for the call, would we remove them from these flows and they would no longer move through score? The score is like, just to nurture them in different ways over a series of X amount of time that will be revealed once we hit the end of E, um to just get them into this, right?

Speaker

And it's so powerful because you just spent all of this money to acquire this lead. and And then if you don't do anything with it, then like, what's the point, right? And you can have this literally working on autopilot, selling- It's autopilot.

Speaker

If we turned off our- autopilot. If we stopped sending live broadcasts, I'd be making 80% as much profit as I am now. Because people who are gonna buy,

Speaker

ah If we do it right, I'm going to buy within those first 30 to 60 days. Like if we do it right. And of course, we're going to do some longer term stuff with them and we can get into that in a bit. But like, think we're giving people the best understanding, the best offers. We're redressing this offer.

Speaker

So like let's get into R. R is for risk, and that is about risk reduction and risk reversal. That's when in a subscription offer, you'll do some kind of trial, dollar trial, first seven days, only commitment, or a splinter.

Speaker

That's when you'll grab a little piece of the main offer and offer it there. You're basically changing the risk profile with a less commitment, either less commitment in the price that's paid today, Or so that could be again a payment plan works really really well. um If it's a call that you're sending people to again think about what is the risk around the call?

Speaker

Well and how do we reduce that? And you say look well if the calls free for example you could say if you get off the call and you haven't received information that you can genuinely go away and we'll help you we'll give you a hundred dollars.

Speaker

Because what's the risk of the call? The risk is I'm gonna get sold to. So another ah risk reversal you can do on um on that is you cannot buy on this call. If you do like a two call close, if you do a two step close, a big risk people have is, oh, I'm gonna be sold to. Hey, if you get on this call, this is a strategy call.

Speaker

There is nothing for sale. I will not allow you to buy off this call. Please don't even try and buy on this call. You're not allowed to. That's a strong position to go, oh, this is not a sales call. It is. It's it's the first part of a sales call. yeah if they're If they're qualified, they can be teed up for the second call. we're not lying and we're not misleading, but we're making sure we're reducing that risk.

Speaker

um you know What if I can't make it is another risk. um you know there's There's a whole bunch of risks that we can take at that point. And again, so if it's calls, that's some solutions. If it's a membership, the risks are that it's a monthly bill.

Speaker

So that is a great place for a splinter. Or I won't like it, so let's do a cheap trial or a short trial. um If it's a large program, maybe ah a coaching program.

Speaker

One of my favorites for a coaching program, I call the Open Day. And we run this a couple of times a year and it's like, hey, um we don't we do this one we don't do this one like um evergreen at the minute. You can't absolutely evergreen it. We just haven't yet. But, you know, no one's email marketing's finished, not even mine.

Speaker

um And we run it every a couple of times a year and we're like, we just invite people. Hey, we're doing our normal Q&A call inside of our coaching program. I know you've got the same problem. Come along for free.

Speaker

Well, those people get to be immersed in the community. Everyone loves you. They get to see how you coach. They get to experience it. They get to sample it. There's no sign up. You just give them a link to come and join the Zoom call. And of course, everybody who does, you follow up with. Another risk reversal. Give them a sample of the experience. Let them experience it.

Speaker

A really high converting one for a... for a larger program is, i couldn't have a really cool name for it, so it's just called Module 1 Unlocked. Basically, I literally unlock, and this is automated in our business, and people, the feedback I get from other marketers write to me and go, holy shit, this is amazing. Like, it is so powerful.

Speaker

I email them and say, hey, Alicia, I've just unlocked the first module of our Email Hero Blueprint program for you. Here's your username and password. It's not open on a page. It's not just somewhere.

Speaker

You've got a username password to go log into the members area. And the first module of the actual course is unlocked. You can see the names of the other modules, which look exciting and enticing, because it really is a good boost to do that as well. Right?

Speaker

um And you're like, oh my God, and I get to experience it. And of course, underneath that video, a bit of like conditional content in your members area is the ability to book the sales call or enroll in the program.

Speaker

Again, we're just removing and reducing that risk. I love it. And in business, one party assumes more of the risk, right? If you want them to buy from you, figure out how can, how can you absorb that risk and and take it away from them?

Speaker

So we have S, sales, about six days. What I loved about that was anchoring the offer. It's not gonna be a surprise later on. Surprise, I'm a business that wants to sell you something. You know, like get get it out the way then.

Speaker

Next we have our content. That can be three to four days. Then we have the objection. I loved the survey. i loved, think, Okay, so then we have the survey, then whatever they answer, including one of the answers being, I don't know about persuasion experience. I don't understand what persuasion experience does. Well, that's a fucking problem in itself in all of the marketing that led us up to this point.

Speaker

That's good for me to know. And I used to have that problem in my sales process. So... because I didn't really know when we were figuring it out, like, you know, like, couldn't like um speak it in clarity and I was getting on these sales calls, I'm like, I don't really understand what you do, but I know I want to work with you. And I was like, huh, this call would go a lot better if you understood what I did. So on our thank you page, we installed a video that explained and showed the process, this full prep doc.

Speaker

So that's always it, right? Like you want people to understand the value that you that you have, like, The sales process shouldn't feel like sales. Marketing should make it superfluous, like unnecessary, right?

Speaker

That's one the things we get to choose in our business is we get to choose whether we want to be a sales-led business or a marketing-led business. And we just have to make that choice. I think some people are sort of like one foot in each camp. and you're like, if you get the marketing right, you really don't need, you need any people, you need order takers, not not salespeople, really.

Speaker

I think the problem is that people think of it as two distinctly different functions. And for me, because my background is in sales, I started in cold calling, puts hairs on your chest, I loved it.

Speaker

But it's part of the same thing. And this is kind of why we called our business persuasion experience, because it's like just the whole function of getting and acquiring and keeping customers. It's a persuasion experience, right? And I think the problem is, and I was chatting about this on another,

Speaker

um episode is people are thinking of them in these siloed ways instead of full experience. So we have the objection, we have the R, um that's the risk reduction and reversal.

Speaker

We're gonna do try the trial, the splinter, etc. I love that. How can we get them to have a little taste, a little sample of our wares so that they're like, holy shit, yeah, I get it now. I didn't get it before, but you like knowing and experiencing are two different things.

Speaker

When they can experience it, and it's hard in the agency, you right? Because people have experienced shit agencies. So you have to remember, but and you alluding to this earlier, your're marketing your business exists in context. what like what is that context? What if they tried before? Have they already been hurt? Do they carry trauma? And they probably have. Let's be honest.

Speaker

When someone comes to any of us, named de the answer is, have they been burned? Yes, they have definitely been burned. yes And the agents, if you're doing an agency experience, a great example of this is rather than saying, hey, it's 10 grand a month and it's a 12 month commitment, you say, you can't work with us until we've done one funnel. you it's not You're not allowed.

Speaker

We have to do one funnel for you. It's this fixed amount. And we're going to, that's the risk reversal. I'm like, okay, they don't even let us. And you position that as, because we don't know how good a client you're going to be.

Speaker

Yeah, I love that. Man, you should see my book right now. um And I'm going to make AI do some cool shit with the show notes. But yeah, I love that. Like as an agency, and we kind of do this, but this is like a good reframe in my positioning, because we don't do locking contracts.

Speaker

We're not cheap, but I'm looking for long-term business partnerships. I am trying to disqualify you because... like I don't wanna play the the churn and burn game. It's annoying. If I just bring on clients and I make you money, then you stay with me. And it's this beautiful relationship that I'm really interested in creating.

Speaker

And what we do is we work in these 90 day sprints and already I'm like, huh, that's such an interesting way to reframe that being like, well, let's do a 90 day trial together. let's like like let's do this one thing or let's like or like if i can splinter it smaller it's a really interesting yeah i mean could you do like because what i think even smaller than that is because i think yes you you do want to get outcome based at some point but like sometimes like your page designs are freaking like unreal like when you're doing your like your stuff on instagram and stuff and i'm like look at these pages they look amazing and as someone who has like okay looking pages like I thought they were fine but then I look at like if you said hey the first thing we do is we we write ah we write and build you a sales page that's all you're allowed to do and I'm going to allow you to buy from us at this point and they go oh my god the what they want to experience is not just the outcome they want to experience the thing they've been burned on which is how it is to work with you

Speaker

Yes, and that's something I think when we're scaling a lot more, I'll do in the future. For now, it's like, I'm kind of like, yeah i'm i'm I'm treating the people with amputated legs and they want me to reattach them.

Speaker

They're working with another agency, they're already running ads and they're like, get in there and fix my ad spend. Scale me to the moon. So yes, 100%. hundred percent And how many days will my risk reduction and reversal flow be?

Speaker

And did we get how many days the objection is as well? please no the The objection one is about four days and between four and six, depending on the the reason that one is depending is because it's going to depend on what your objections are, because you might want to use you probably will want to use the some of the angles of the objections as the angle of the email.

Speaker

So depending on what the arm, if there's enough meat in them, then you you will probably want to integrate them. For the risk reversal one, um that's very, very dependent on what risk reversal you going to do, right?

Speaker

So if it's a if it's a splinter and it's really inexpensive, it's if it's a $47 little mini course out of your main program, you might do a three-day flash sale.

Speaker

to do that whereas if it's um if it's going to be leading up to a an open day you might want to leave four five six days for that you know so it really is going to depend on how long the person's going to need because do they need to make an appointment in their calendar do they need to set set time aside yeah but again we're talking most things are about you know about weekish Yeah, okay, cool.

Speaker

And with the objection one, I imagine that all four days, the point is to get them to take the survey. Is that correct? Of every email? And then if they did it, they might only see one day. Like, if they take the action in any of the letters, can the that's when those days would be collapsed, they would be taken out of that letter segmentation and they would, well, then they would just be taken out.

Speaker

but No, because of the survey. No, if they complete the next week completely survey. Yeah, so if they complete the survey, they will be taken out of the survey reminder sequence and they'll be put into the objection handler sequence for that option that they took in the survey. So we might not have covered that actually, which is they take the and back in the risk reversal sequence.

Speaker

They're going to choose their objection on the next page is a video of you addressing the objection, but they're also now tagged in your CRM. to say that's the objection they chose and they're going to go into an objection handler of objection handling sequence of again but but between three and five six days um to to really address that and send them back to that video as well awesome understood what's a e is an engagement engagement

Speaker

So and that is where your longer term, the person just, the time is not now, but we do want to keep the the but we want to keep them on a simmer. We can't be bubbling them and boiling the hell out of them for ages. Otherwise, you know if you boil water in a pan for too long, it dries out and you end up with that with a fire.

Speaker

So we want to start off bubbling the water, bubbling the water, but then eventually we're going to just turn it down to a simmer. We're going to just keep it warm. So at the point that they're ready to buy, they haven't forgotten who you are. There are so many people. This is so frustrating.

Speaker

There are so many people who I've engaged with over the years for problems I know I'm going to have one day. And that's one of the reasons people join your list, by the way. They're not joining for some of them are not joining for a problem they've got now, but for a problem they know they're going to have later.

Speaker

when they're at that scale or they're doing that thing or they're using that channel. So now they, so what we need to do is make sure that we can't forget who we are. The reason that we do so well in converting leads is because we're persistent. We show up every week. We're there in the inbox. If you think email marketing, you're going to think Kennedy, email marketing heroes because, and you know you can't forget it because I'm in your inbox every week telling you a funny story and I'm relating that to what my offer is and how and how it all works.

Speaker

And this will just be an ongoing nurture sequence, right? Like, would you would would you consider this like your newsletter, your ongoing engagement, weekly, et cetera, that's where we're where we've gone now. And everyone will end up in there. That's like the mass list.

Speaker

Exactly. That's where all of the non-buyers end up. That's the broadcastable segment. Cause the problem is what most people do is they skip S C o R, they go into E, but it's more like dead leads. Like it's literally called in their CRM dead leads and they do nothing with them. Right.

Speaker

And then these email lists accumulate and accumulate and they become dozens, hundreds, thousands over the years. And imagine how much money people have lost. I know because when I start with a client,

Speaker

We do this re-engagement sequence. It's this Dean Jackson thing. You might've heard of it. The nine world word email. Are you still interested in thing I sell? we've We've brought in like 82K of revenue, sometimes more like that's that's for a smaller offering actually. And it pays for ourselves and it's a good experience. more and what chefs kids But there's money in them hills, right? And people are just ignoring it. And this whole process- And speaking of ignoring- Makes the money come.

Speaker

Yeah. and it's just money right there to be had. And and here's a- Here's ah another way of doing that if you've ignored those leads, so we have a thing called the shitty friend email.

Speaker

And it's basically you send this email and it has a bunch of really important psychological things in it, as you probably imagine from me. um Because the biggest fear that what happens if you send ah an email to a bunch of dead leads.

Speaker

When people don't recognize your name when it comes in. they might hit the spam button and that's going to hurt your sender reputation for all of your email marketing, right? By the way, the number one reason people don't open your emails or do open your emails is not the subject line.

Speaker

And I know that's crazy to say. here's the here's the Here's the proof. If I get an email from my mom and she forgets to put a subject line in, which she will because she doesn't use emails, right?

Speaker

I'm going to open that email. Why? Because I trust and I know who that email's from. The from name, that left-hand side that you read first, is the thing that gets your emails opened.

Speaker

And that's why it needs to be really clear. Mine doesn't say Kennedy, even though I have quite an unusual and and more much rarer name. But like imagine your name is is is even slightly more common than mine.

Speaker

If people don't know which John or Mike or Sarah that is, if there if there's another Sarah who emails them and she's a dick and they don't like her emails or they unsubscribe from their emails and they think it's her again, they're going to go into your emails pissed off.

Speaker

So my emails come from Kennedy slash email marketing heroes. Because now you know exactly what I do, who I am, and what you to expect. And that that's going to get my emails open. into the terrible into the Into this shitty friend, terrible friend email.

Speaker

And you can either call it terrible friend or shitty friend, depending on your brand. This is the email. Hey, first name. I've been a really shitty friend. Slash terrible friend. That's really engaging. Like, what are what are you talking about?

Speaker

I've got them to lean in. All communication is either going to get people to lean in or lean back. If you're shouting and aggressive, if you're the Grant Cardone, if you're the Russell Brunson, that is people leaning back because they are in your face. That's one style. There's the other style, which is the lean in, the person who causes you to lean in. It's like the the storyteller, the sage, right? So that's what we're going to do here.

Speaker

So we've got, I've been a terrible friend. A little while ago, you joined my email list. Notice, you joined my email list because their fear is...

Speaker

You scrape my information, you're cold DMing you're cold messaging me. We want to overcome that. You join my email list to learn or to find out about and then remind them why. that first set That second sentence there, so I've been a terrible friend, second sentence reminds them that this is not spam.

Speaker

You join my email list and here's the reason. Oh, well, I am interested in that. So even if I can't remember who Alicia is, I would have joined a thing about that. So that makes sense. This is not spam. That's the first thing we're going to overcome.

Speaker

okay so we've got attention from that first line. Now we've got some kind of level of engagement. And then we're going to say, i dropped the ball.

Speaker

I haven't been in touch for ages. Don't give them an excuse or a reason. You really don't need to. um But here's my promise to you. From now on, I'm going to be in touch.

Speaker

And then tell them the frequency, tell them the upcoming frequency every week, every Friday, a small specific, you can be the best every single day from Monday, twice a day from Tuesday, whatever it's going to be really specific.

Speaker

So they can see you are making a commitment to help you with outcome. Remind them again. And then here's the really important thing. But if you feel like you can't forgive me or you've moved on, you can click here to unsubscribe from my emails.

Speaker

A spammer would never say, here's the unsubscribe link and hand it to you on a plate. So what you've just done is reminded them, you've reconnected with them, you've set expectation, and you've given them the door out.

Speaker

All within like four lines or five lines of an email. Really powerful. So if anybody is watching or listening to this and they're like, I've got this little dungeon of dead leads and I should do something with them, but I'm not sure how to do it without screwing up my sender reputation, getting loads of bounces, getting loads of...

Speaker

um getting loads of spam reports and really hurting and pissing people off. Just listen back to what I just said. Grab the information from the show notes and and go send that email out. It's extremely, extremely powerful.

Speaker

Awesome, I love that. And because you've been very generous with your time and I don't want to hold you hostage for too much longer because your day is just beginning, I do have one objection that I hear a lot from people when I'm talking to them about email marketing or or a concern and maybe a misconception.

Speaker

And it's like, i don't want to annoy people. It's annoying when people email you. I don't want to annoy people right and the emails frequency that you've just given us is quite a lot now i imagine your your um answer is going to be something around like relationships and experience and value right because that's what you've noted throughout maybe but how do you address that or it's like i don't want to email too much i don't want to annoy people Okay, first thing is, the only reason someone's on your email list is not because they want more emails in their inbox. It's because they have a problem that they've been desperately trying to solve.

Speaker

And they've somehow, because of money you've spent on ads or time you've invested PR or whatever you've done, they've found you. And they've gone, thank God someone, and I believe this person, might have the solution to this.

Speaker

So you bloody better show up and give them the solution. And because each of us buys different things for different reasons at different times, which is a very complex web of possibilities, we have to show up and show them these different reasons they might want to buy it on each of these different days.

Speaker

That's the first bit. You owe it to them because that's what they're searching for. The second thing is there's a misconception around whose house this is.

Speaker

People feel that when you send an email, that's like you showing up to their house, going in their living room, sitting on their couch and going, let me tell you about my thing. It's not.

Speaker

They joined your email list. They're in your house. They joined your email list. They came around to your house. If they sit on the sofa and they start complaining about the fact they don't like the walls, they don't like the color of that wallpaper, they don't like the carpet, they can fuck off.

Speaker

They can leave. There is an unsubscribe button at the bottom of every single one of your emails. That is the door to get out. It's your house. You get to try new stuff.

Speaker

You get to play. You get to make mistakes. Look, I'm dyslexic. My spelling is awful. I send emails out every single day with typos in. I could slow down my output.

Speaker

by having somebody check my emails every day. I'm not going to do that because it's really real. I tell stories in my emails that are identifiable, that are real about the good stuff and the shit stuff and the talent challenging stuff, the annoying stuff, the funny stuff that's going on in my life every single day. And I relate it to my offers because people then trust me.

Speaker

And they're not just there. They're not just reading my emails to find out how they can buy when they're ready to. They're finding out about me. They're genuinely interested, which is crazy to me because I feel like my life is pretty boring and we all feel like that, right?

Speaker

But it's amazing to me how many people who, who when they enrolled in the program, in the blueprint, but we obviously stopped sending them the daily emails because they are selling the program.

Speaker

We had to completely uproot how our entire email system worked a few years ago because all of our freaking customers want to keep receiving my daily emails.

Speaker

That's awesome. And... I think it goes back to like, you were sort of saying it's like, be, not in these exact words, but be yourself, build a relationship.

Speaker

And I love that reframe. That's the all roads lead to Rome and this like, they're in your house, get the fuck out. Like, okay, then whyd why'd you come in? Why'd you come over to see me? Like, what are you doing here?

Speaker

But, I think it also goes back to you have to you have to set the tone of communication and what they should expect from you, right? So if you bring them into your house and then you go and hide in the fridge and you stay in there and then they're like, huh?

Speaker

I thought I came here to see Kennedy. Where where are you, Kennedy? And then you come in and you're like like, surprise, you want to buy this? Right, right. That's why you want to sell from the beginning the last thing you want to do is get people on, give them value, give them value, give them value.

Speaker

And then one day... You sell to them. Well, like ah they're going to be pissed off. Of course they're be pissed off because they thought this is a place they could get coffee. And then one day you say, we don't sell coffee anymore. You can only have tea.

Speaker

Of course they're going to pissed off because they that's not what they're here for. It's like when you go, oh, going to go for dinner in this place. There's a place near me and it was I love Greek food. So we were like, we're going to go for this Greek food. So I booked the table. We show up.

Speaker

It's an Italian restaurant today. I'm like... i'm i'm fear like i like italian food but i want a greek that's why i'm here um so why is it still called acropolis it's it's italian that's crazy but um so why are you so but so yeah you have to set the expectation early on and let people leave early on if it's not for them that's totally cool like some people go oh i hate candy's emails they're annoying fine that's cool But the thing is, they work. Like, I'm looking at the data. Like, look at the numbers, man. Like, I'm monetizing the the the asset that I've paid, that I've invested time, love, money, passion in.

Speaker

And I'm monetizing that. And don't be afraid for people to leave your list. You want to be polarizing. it's the It's like it happens all the time in marketing, right? People are too scared to say something wrong. Like, I'm not going to get into it now, but that's what we want to do. And number one, thank you for sharing your brilliance today. It's always so energizing to talk to you.

Speaker

Speaker

I think I'm a real blend. Cause yeah. Yeah. I like, I love like i i I do my best thinking and I think I really work it. Obviously I've been performing on stage, so I'm, I'm pretty articulate, but I, if I do like a load of these, I will be like fucked for the rest of like the day. I'll need like sleep, but yeah.

Speaker

That's what I really stood out to me at your ad con talk was how well you can communicate a message. Like I remember watching you, thinking I need to study this guy. It was insane. Your ability to craft stories, your comedic timing. I mean, the whole fucking backstory you never told me, like it really makes a lot more sense now. was like, wow, this guy's really mastered marketing stage talks. I was like, h like I have a long way to go. I could i could go and do cruises and some magic and staples to the eyes. So Kennedy, where can people come and stalk you and ask you questions after this podcast episode?

Speaker

I put some goodies for you on just on a special web page for you all, emailmarketingheroes.com slash px. So that's emailmarketingheroes.com slash px.

Speaker

Put some free goodies on there for you as well. And it also means you can get on my email list and see this stuff in action, which I think it's always better to learn like by seeing how it's done as well. Obviously, you won't see all the segmentation and all the other thinking and that's going on, but you'll definitely get a little sample of it. And you'll hear all about the product, obviously.

Speaker

Obviously, and then you can buy it and get access to even more of your brain. Kennedy, again, thank you so much. And I cannot wait to download your resource.