Joe and Holly have a virtual hangout with Lia Babitch, co-manager of the Turtle Tree Seed Initiative at Camphill Village Copake, New York and discuss the ways in which seeds can nurture both plants and human potential .

The Turtle Tree Seed Initiative, a non-profit operating within the Camphill community, grows and sells nearly 400 varieties of open-pollinated seeds using biodynamic practices. What makes them unique is their integration with Camphill's mission of creating meaningful work opportunities for adults with developmental disabilities, who work alongside volunteers and long-term community members in the seed production process.

Through their Safe Seed Pledge and commitment to "social agriculture" - working collaboratively rather than in isolation - Turtle Tree demonstrates how sustainable agriculture can simultaneously preserve plant diversity and foster human dignity. The initiative exemplifies Camphill's philosophy that everyone, regardless of ability, has valuable contributions to make.

Links Mentioned In This Episode

• Turtle Tree Seed Inititative (and store)
• Camphill Village Copake

About Lia Babitch

Lia Babitch is co-manager of Turtle Tree Seed Initiative in Copake, New York, which has a mission "...to improve the quality, variety and availability of biodynamic seeds and to promote and provide a seed supply from diversified biodynamic farms and gardens."

The seed company has an online e-commerce site offering a truly astonishingly wide variety (385+) of 100% open-pollinated vegetable, herb, and flower seeds. Every single seed available for sale is grown using Demeter-certified Biodynamic and organic practices, is non-GMO, non-hybrid, never treated, and grown without the use of chemical inputs..

Turtle Tree is part of Camphill Village Copake, which is in turn part of the global Camphill Movement. Camphill Village is an integrated life-sharing community located on 750 acres of wooded hills, gardens and pastures in Copake, NY.

Turtle Tree Seed’s 30-person team operates workspace directly on the Camphill Village site, and 20 members of that team have some sort of developmental difference. These individuals are involved in every aspect of helping to grow, select, and clean each seed with great care. Early adopters of so-called "seed transparency", the Turtle Tree Seed Initiative grows most varieties in thier own gardens. The remainder of the inventory is sourced from other committed biodynamic farmers.

In addition to direct sales, Turtle Tree actively encourages and educates people who want to grow and save open-pollinated vegetable, herb, and flower seeds.

Show Credits

GrowAbility is hosted by Joe Gansevles and Holly Pugsley. Special thanks to this week's guest, Lia Babitch.

Our show is produced by Adam Caplan, Joe Gansevles, and Holly Pugsley.

Production support from Oliver Gansevles, Evan Gansevles, Scott Hohn, Kevin Labonte, Paul Rogers, Dorentina Ucke and Alan Williamson.

Holly Pugsley of Just Keep Growing art directed this episode and made sure the plants looked great.

Audience strategy by Dorentina Ucke and Tess Alcock.

Our theme music is Wandering William by Adrienne Walther and can be found on Soundstripe.

Adam Caplan is web.iso.des executive producer and Sammy Orlowski is our senior creator.

Thanks to TechAlliance of Southwestern Ontario, including Farida Abdelnabi and Sarah Edmondson for letting us shoot at their beautiful offices.

Special thanks to Leigh Ann Gansevles for the support and yummy food, Hubert Orlowski for helping our podcast sound great and Gabor Sass for making some great introductions.

GrowAbility is a web.isod.es production and is produced with the support and participation of the team at The PATCH and Hutton House.

Joe, do you know what happened to

2

Killarney many years ago?

3

No, but I'm guessing you're going to

4

tell me.

5

Sorry, Joe, but it's way

6

"Too‐Ra‐Loo‐Ra‐Loo‐Ral".

7

Say that again three times fast.

8

You're evil. I barely got it out the

9

first time.

10

So why are you quoting an Irish lullaby

11

popularized by Bing Crosby?

12

Because it's Green Circle Garden

13

bedtime.

14

From web.isod.es, this is GrowAbility,

15

a digital documentary at the

16

intersection of urban agriculture, food

17

security, and community.

18

On this episode, we speak with Ian

19

Armour of, and Holly kind of spoiled

20

this part, Green Circle Gardens.

21

I love this. Ian's company makes garden

22

beds accessible to virtually

23

everyone.

24

Yup. Whether it's school, hospitals,

25

retirement homes, or anywhere people

26

gather, Ian has dedicated his career to

27

offering beautiful and functional

28

outdoor spaces that everyone can

29

enjoy regardless of physical ability.

30

And we do have a few of these beds at

31

The PATCH, don't we?

32

Sure do. And while we have some

33

experience with them in our own work,

34

I'm very curious about how and why

35

Ian applied his industrial

36

product design background to raised

37

garden beds.

38

Obviously, we use them for growing food

39

as a part of our urban agriculture

40

mission, but I want to know, too, if

41

that was a part of Ian's original

42

thinking, or was that something

43

unexpected?

44

I have a funny feeling Ian had that in

45

mind when he designed these beds.

46

But Holly, do you want to know a

47

cool fact about this interview?

48

I feel like if I say no, this episode's

49

going to take an awkward turn, so yes,

50

sure.

51

This is going to be our very first

52

transcontinental interview.

53

Okay, yeah, it was worth the tease up.

54

I'm just sad you doubted me.

55

Well, before Ian joins us from an

56

undisclosed location in Europe,

57

if this podcast doesn't lull you into a

58

state of deep slumber, please rate and

59

review us on Apple Podcasts.

60

And if you're digging our vibe on

61

YouTube, please like and subscribe.

62

Pop over to growabilitypod.com to

63

sign up for our free Fresh and

64

Nutritious newsletter for the best

65

stories and ideas from GrowAbility

66

and our guests.

67

Feel free to email us at hosts at

68

growabilitypod.com anytime, day or

69

night.

70

Send us ideas, questions or guest

71

suggestions for the future.

72

Like our interview with Ian proves, we

73

do go anywhere.

74

And there's no Z's in Tech Alliance

75

of Southwestern Ontario.

76

Thanks to the crew here for letting us

77

film these interviews in this beautiful

78

location.

79

And now let's get into a garden bed

80

with Ian Armor.

81

That looked better on paper, didn't it?

82

Definitely did.

83

Hi Ian, where do we find you today?

84

Well, right now I'm in Madrid in Spain.

85

And it's because my mother is Spanish

86

and my dad is Scottish.

87

And my wife is Spanish as well, so

88

I'm living in Madrid at the moment.

89

Lovely. Thank you so much.

90

That's incredible. Thank you so much

91

for joining us for this episode, Ian.

92

Let's start at the beginning.

93

What is the mission of Green Circle

94

Garden, Inc.? And how did the company

95

get started?

96

Okay, well, it all

97

started at university.

98

I studied creative product

99

design.

100

And in one of the projects, we were

101

briefed to design a leisure

102

product for over 60s.

103

So we started designing a

104

few concepts.

105

And my grandmother at the time was

106

in a care home in England.

107

And she said what she missed most was a

108

garden.

109

And I sort of- the spark

110

clicked because at that

111

time, a product for leisure over 60s,

112

where I said let's go into gardening

113

and design an accessible

114

garden.

115

So we started designing a bit on

116

that. And I designed a concept

117

in wood, made out of wood.

118

And then since then, obviously, the

119

product has evolved quite a bit since

120

then.

121

Ian, can you describe what a Green

122

Circle accessible garden looks

123

like for our viewers and our listeners?

124

Okay, well, I'd say it's

125

a 3D model. So it's been designed in

126

CAD.

127

And I would say it's

128

an elevated garden bed.

129

So a very high raised garden bed with

130

a wheelchair recess.

131

So it's got a lot of space.

132

So somebody in a wheelchair can get

133

tucked in nicely

134

up to touch their

135

stomachs so they can actually get

136

involved in gardening because most

137

gardens don't allow your

138

legs and your feet to sort of go into

139

the garden. There's usually a bit of

140

trouble with accessibility there.

141

It seems like you decided to address

142

accessibility as a question of

143

design.

144

How did that approach come about?

145

I think it was just a coincidence where

146

at that time,

147

during university, during that project,

148

we could have designed anything.

149

Basically, as one of

150

my grandmothers in a care home at the

151

time, I started looking at

152

gardens and as a product designer

153

and also studying 3D modeling

154

because that was part of the course,

155

I saw that design plays

156

an important role, for example, in

157

the accessible garden due to

158

the facts of the material used.

159

So if you make an accessible garden out

160

of wood, what you'll notice is it's

161

very difficult to get an ergonomic

162

design that's comfortable and allows

163

for somebody to sit in a wheelchair

164

in the garden and

165

then have enough soil depth

166

to actually plant

167

plants.

168

And that's where I think the design

169

comes in, where I designed it in

170

fiberglass rather than wood.

171

The first concept was done in

172

fiberglass so I could create a

173

very ergonomic shape

174

which would allow a user,

175

so there would be less of a compromise

176

between accessibility comforts

177

and then the functionality of the

178

garden.

179

And have you expanded that target

180

audience to include anyone else?

181

At the moment, we've only got one

182

product which is the Green Circle

183

Garden. We are speaking to

184

our clients, to the end users, to see

185

how they're using the garden and what

186

other products could be made which we

187

do have two products in the pipeline

188

which will be coming out.

189

Oh, wonderful!

190

Is it too soon to talk about them?

191

Yes, I think so.

192

I think it's a little bit too soon just

193

to get the registered

194

design and everything on.

195

Fair enough.

196

How, in your opinion, is gardening

197

linked to the improvement of mental

198

health for seniors, for instance,

199

living in care homes?

200

I think it's very important.

201

I've been to these care homes and

202

residences, I don't want to speak badly

203

of them, but I think

204

there's plenty to do.

205

I think lots of people are

206

in their rooms.

207

They're not getting outside.

208

It's actually quite sad in a way.

209

And I think that gardening is very

210

important. My grandmother, she

211

loved horticulture her

212

whole life. She always had a very nice

213

looked after garden.

214

And I think it brings, apart from

215

bringing sort of well-being

216

and being in a nice place to

217

relax, to read a book, I think

218

it's also good to sort of grow your own

219

food, even if it's just herbs.

220

If you grow parsley or

221

some tomatoes, they'd always taste

222

nicer when you grow them.

223

I think it also improves

224

appetite because in care

225

homes, lots of people lose their

226

appetite. So even if they grow some

227

rosemary, a few herbs

228

and things, when they put that on their

229

plate, it gives a sense of

230

appetite and it's something that

231

they've grown.

232

One hundred percent.

233

But what kinds of food do

234

you think you've

235

noticed that people grow the most of

236

when they're in homes using

237

these?

238

Using these.

239

Well, I think probably strawberries is

240

definitely amazing.

241

I mean, the strawberries, I've

242

been growing strawberries and I've got

243

a demonstration one at home,

244

which I've been growing strawberries

245

and they're all year round.

246

I mean, I don't actually do anything to

247

them. I just let every year they come

248

out and pick them.

249

I think there's lots of

250

other things.

251

For example, here we're coming onto

252

this other product that I was

253

designing, which is about growing food.

254

Basically, to grow root vegetables, you

255

need at least 25 inches of soil depth.

256

Yes.

257

Our green circle garden at the moment

258

has 10 inches.

259

OK

260

So as root vegetables

261

grow, I wouldn't recommend those, but

262

everything that grows above soil

263

grows very well because it's also

264

got a 42 gallon water reservoir

265

at the bottom.

266

Right.

267

So plants that do have large root

268

systems will find their way into that

269

water reservoir and let's say

270

grow out of proportion a little bit and

271

then obviously need to be transplanted.

272

So I think the way that I see that

273

people use Green Circle Garden the most

274

at the moment is for growing seedlings.

275

So they grow seedlings,

276

they don't need any maintenance

277

whatsoever, or you take a cutting from

278

any plant, you just stick into the

279

soil, it'll grow.

280

And then once the plant gets to an

281

average size, the idea

282

is to transplant that into a

283

larger pot or into the garden, into the

284

ground, in the garden.

285

So you can actually grow lots of little

286

flowers, plants,

287

vegetables, and then

288

once they're strong enough and got

289

large root systems, they can be

290

transplanted out into the garden.

291

And do you find that they are fully

292

functional indoors as well as outdoors?

293

Yes, we do have a few clients who have

294

indoors, but you do need

295

to have artificial lighting.

296

So you need to have a

297

full spectrum LED

298

light, for example, and that

299

will do. I mean, as I said, there's

300

a large water reservoir at the bottom,

301

so there's no troubles

302

of leaking or

303

having to water them that much because

304

they can go on for months without

305

watering.

306

Yeah, we actually have a

307

few in our indoor space right now that

308

we're experimenting with indoor

309

growing.

310

Do you have them indoors? You do.

311

Yes, yes.

312

And we have a trellis

313

going over each and we've hung lights

314

on them, just to kind of

315

substitute for the lack of light.

316

But yeah, it's going pretty

317

interestingly.

318

We've grown some food, a lot of edible

319

flowers, just because it's so

320

beautiful, but it is really

321

wonderfully accessible for our

322

volunteer nights because we do have a

323

few participants in wheelchairs.

324

And it helps a lot, actually help them

325

get more involved.

326

And yeah, even when there's other

327

barriers, they can kind of get their

328

hands dirty still, which is exactly

329

what we want.

330

But yeah.

331

That sounds great.

332

It would be nice to see them.

333

Yeah, maybe we should take some

pictures.

334

We'll send it over for sure.

335

It's really interesting.

336

Coming on to my other products.

337

Well, I can talk a little bit about

338

them. But basically,

339

yes, this would be say for seedlings

340

with maximum comforts because there is

341

a compromise.

342

You can't have a huge amount of

343

soil and have wheelchair access.

344

It's quite difficult to play around

345

with those measurements.

346

Right. So the next product is going to

347

be, let's say,

348

a deeper soil garden.

349

So for root vegetables.

350

So cool.

351

Oh, that's awesome.

352

So I'm going to try and see.

353

So people grow the seedlings, then from

354

the seedlings, they can either go to

355

the larger pots or to a third product,

356

which is going to be something also

357

quite similar.

358

But the idea is that the idea is to

359

grow seed from seed, grow

360

seedlings with very

361

little maintenance.

362

And then from there, they go into

363

the garden.

364

Okay, wonderful.

365

I mean, there's no need to actually buy

366

that many plants, because when you

367

when you got one plant, you take a

368

cutting and you can make many

369

more plants.

370

So it's very nice.

371

It's very nice for, for example, new

372

construction projects where the garden,

373

let's say, isn't planted out properly.

374

Well, this gives the residents

375

a way of planting their own plants

376

and then designing the garden, in a

377

sense, so they can sort of put flowers

378

in certain areas and

379

make the garden nicer.

380

Yeah, that's a really good idea.

381

Actually, it's a nice space to just

382

kind of start it off. That's not too

383

protected or high

384

maintenance. You kind of just let it go

385

and then dig them

386

out again. That's a really good idea.

387

Yeah, I've not thought of like to use

388

it for that. So I think that we may be

389

experimenting a little bit.

390

Was it a part of, was it part of

391

your intent to link this

392

product to food security and access to

393

healthy foods?

394

No, no, not to

395

be honest. I mean, in Spain,

396

people eat quite healthy.

397

I mean,

398

gardens in general, in Spain, for

399

example, there's not

400

that much interest for it because

401

everything grows so easily.

402

I mean, in England, for example,

403

it's completely the opposite.

404

In England, everybody's, you have to

405

prune at the right time,

406

fertilizing the soil, looking

407

after the garden.

408

It's something that people do a lot

409

more in that culture.

410

And I think the American markets and

411

Canadians, I think as well have,

412

are closer to the English in that sense

413

of keeping up the gardens.

414

I agree.

415

Yeah.

416

I have sort of a design question for

417

you, Ian.

418

Yes.

419

Do you think that we can create through

420

innovative design, a world where

421

food is accessible to all people?

422

Yes.

423

I think that growing food is

424

not a difficult thing.

425

I mean, it does require space

426

and it does require some planning.

427

But if you do get the planning right,

428

I mean, the plants come out.

429

I'm sure you're very experienced

430

planting different

431

sorts of vegetables and things, and

432

it's all got to do with soil

433

preparation and

434

all these things. And then once it gets

435

going, it's going.

436

That's my idea.

437

I think that people should grow

438

more because there's lots

439

of things that can be grown.

440

Even in your own,

441

Brussel sprou- Not so, not brussel sprouts.

442

Bean sprouts and things as well.

443

I mean, I've seen people grow in their

444

own kitchen. You can grow lots of

445

different seeds which are used for

446

salads and things.

447

So I think that's a good place to start

448

if there's no space in a city setting.

449

Definitely.

450

Do the hospitals and long -term care

451

facilities who use your product serve

452

the food they grow in

453

those gardens?

454

In hospitals, I think there's

455

a lot of bureaucracy as well on

456

whether they can eat certain things.

457

For example, I'm not sure if they

458

would allow patients to go

459

and eat a nasturtium, for example, from

460

the garden.

461

Even if it is edible, they do have

462

their sort of

463

strict laws in place.

464

But in hospitals, we do have gardens in

465

hospitals and they're called healing

466

gardens.

467

And that's where the patients, when

468

they're recuperating, they'll go

469

down to the garden and they can read a

470

book there and just be

471

in a nicer setting than being

472

in a room.

473

They call it healing gardens.

474

It's new to me, but that's what it's

475

called.

476

Yeah, we actually have one of those at

477

our Cavendish farm as well.

478

I can tell it

479

could be very, very useful

480

having a system like that,

481

like yours, at a hospital because

482

of all the wheelchair access.

483

As people are recovering, it's a

484

beautiful thing to incorporate into the

485

hospital.

486

So a question.

487

We've talked about the healing

488

components of the garden, but there's

489

also a huge educational component

490

to

491

the Green Circle Gardens.

492

You sell these to schools?

493

Yes.

494

I think education is important.

495

Yes, biology.

496

I mean, we all remember when we learned

497

about pollination and

498

root systems and how plants work and

499

everything. It's very important to be

500

able to see that up close, especially

501

for somebody who's in a wheelchair.

502

Now you can actually go and you can

503

feel, you can smell and

504

interact with the flowers at a much

505

closer level and actually see the

506

stigma, the pollen,

507

and all those things that

508

go with it. So I think biology is

509

important and being able to

510

see how seeds grow and how

511

seeds are made from a

512

close distance is important in

513

education.

514

And now do you see the secondary

515

value in it

516

creating inclusivity

517

for students?

518

Yes.

519

The garden is not only for wheelchairs,

520

but it's also good for

521

those who can't bend down.

522

And the idea of the Green Circle

523

Garden, why it's called a Green Circle

524

Garden, is because 10 of them or 9 of

525

them create a circle with a barrier.

526

And the idea behind that is for

527

inclusivity, so the standing and

528

seated people can garden

529

together, but also to

530

barrier to the outside world,

531

which is the, that's the technical

532

phrase that the American Horticultural

533

Therapy Association uses,

534

which is for those with dementia or

535

Alzheimer's that they feel

536

more comfortable when they're protected

537

by a barrier.

538

Interesting.

539

That's how I took the idea of

540

having that sort of circle, that

541

enclosure, creates an enclosure of sort

542

of a barrier that supposedly creates

543

a sense of safety for the users.

544

That's really beautiful.

545

I didn't realize that.

546

Interesting.

547

There's a lot of little things you read

548

and then you put the

549

product together.

550

Yeah. Do you think it's important, just

551

going back to your comment about

552

people using

553

wheelchairs and also

554

people who are standing,

555

interacting together at the same

556

garden, how

557

do you think that that's important

558

for both, for many

559

individuals to be accessing the

560

garden at once like that?

561

Well, it's socializing, isn't it?

562

I mean, everybody's doing their own

563

little thing, helping out.

564

Everybody cracks a joke or something.

565

I think it's a nice way to have a

566

social, so

567

people can socialize.

568

As I said, lots of these people are

569

sometimes in their rooms, they don't

570

leave.

571

And it's quite sad.

572

So any opportunity for them to go out

573

into the sun

574

and have a little talk and do some

575

gardening, I think is a good thing

576

for them.

577

Definitely. Why do you think, just to

578

spin off of that, why do you think

579

it's important for

580

different generations to be gardening

581

together as well?

582

I think the answer is the same

583

to the last one. I think to build

584

ties, to socialize,

585

to make friends.

586

Holly's mentioned our urban farm,

587

which we call The PATCH because-

588

It looks great.

589

Thank you.

590

And that's what it is.

591

It's a patch.

592

It's a patch. It's a green space.

593

It's in an urban context.

594

And what it is, it's a

595

space that has

596

embraced the use of, spaces

597

not traditionally used for farming.

598

Do you see the

599

Green Circle Gardens utilizing

600

non -traditional farming spaces to

601

create patches for food security?

602

Yes.

603

The good thing about the Green Circle

604

Garden is that 42 gallon water

605

reservoir is really good for

606

very arid areas.

607

So in California and Arizona,

608

we do have some, quite a few

609

gardens in places which you would

610

literally call the desert.

611

As in it's just sand, the ground,

612

there's no water whatsoever.

613

There's no greenery whatsoever because

614

nothing's going to grow there.

615

But by putting these gardens and

616

they have their own water supply,

617

it's a way of bringing gardening

618

to areas which wouldn't be

619

able to garden otherwise.

620

Now in your travels and

621

between in

622

Europe and I don't know if you've been

623

to North America, but do you see

624

opportunities that maybe you

625

haven't noticed Green

626

Circle Gardens in that can

627

help people grow their greens,

628

their foods and their natural

629

medicines?

630

Like, are you like, yes, one should be

631

there?

632

In the United States, you mean?

633

Sure. Yeah.

634

Yes, I've been to the United States

635

many times. We do manufacture our

636

gardens in California now.

637

Because obviously the shipping, as such

638

a large item, the shipping was

639

prohibitive.

640

We couldn't get them over.

641

So we had lots of interest from United

642

States. So we decided to design

643

the product in the United States

644

and make it more available for

645

everybody.

646

Incredible.

647

When they're being shipped out,

648

do you hear and when your

649

consumers are taking them,

650

have you heard of some cool innovative

651

spaces where they've been set up

652

and food's been grown?

653

I think the most interesting place

654

was a place I visited.

655

I think it's Visalia in

656

California.

657

Basically, it's a desert.

658

It was a patch of land which was

659

just sand.

660

To see the gardens, they're actually

661

growing plants is amazing because it's

662

like an oasis.

663

You wouldn't expect plants

664

to be growing underneath.

665

It gets very hot there in Arizona.

666

Beautiful.

667

Very hot and dry.

668

Is there any space where the garden

669

would have functional challenges

670

being implanted?

671

Is there any space that maybe it

672

just doesn't function

673

as well?

674

I don't know what to say about that.

675

Everywhere?

676

It's a standalone device as long as

677

it's getting some sunlight.

678

I think it's all good.

679

The bad place would be obviously if you

680

put it in the shade,

681

or say indoors with no natural light,

682

it's not really going to do much, is it?

683

I think it does very well in

684

drier areas.

685

For example, if you go to a very humid

686

area, say Florida,

687

I think there maybe it

688

would be beneficial to reduce

689

the amount of self

690

-irrigation of the planter

691

because of the humidity.

692

Obviously, roots do like

693

moist soil, but they don't like to be

694

drowned in water.

695

I think that depending

696

on the climate, there are

697

small changes that can be made to the

698

garden so it works as intended.

699

To answer your question, I think that

700

right now if you were to put the garden

701

in a very humid, wet area,

702

it may be bad for the roots in

703

the sense that there would be maybe too

704

much water saturation of

705

the soil, which is bad for all plants,

706

I think. Most plants.

707

The humidity.

708

Interesting.

709

I'm asking for a friend, but how

710

does one go about emptying

711

one of these systems

712

indoors?

713

Okay, indoors.

714

There you've got a bit of a conundrum.

715

Yes!

716

What I would do is, you know

717

the way the water meter is, the pipe

718

that comes out?

719

The only way to not get any splashing,

720

I think, would be to remove that one,

721

put a hosepipe in there, and then do

722

the siphon. You know the siphon effect

723

where you suck on one side

724

and you pull it out?

725

Yes.

726

I think that's the best way to get any

727

dripping whatsoever.

728

The other way, usually

729

when it's outdoors, what we do is we

730

just take off one of the side outlets,

731

drain it.

732

If you have it indoors

733

and it's full up with water, well

734

you've got two options. You can either

735

let it dry out, which will take a hell

736

of a long time, or put a hosepipe

737

down through the hole I'm talking about

738

where the water meter is, and then

739

siphon it out.

740

That's what I think is the best way.

741

Okay, noted.

742

Thank you.

743

I know we've talked about a couple

744

products that are

745

coming down the pipeline

746

without disclosing too much, but what

747

else does the future hold for Green

748

Circle Gardens?

749

Well, I think getting in touch with

750

our clients, the end users, finding out

751

how they use the gardens, what they

752

would like, because I think they're

753

the ones that have the most experience

754

of what they want, what the client

755

wants.

756

I think we're going to expand on

757

products that are relevant

758

to the existing Green Circle Garden

759

and that allow users to

760

grow their own food more

761

successfully.

762

We're going to be doing the root

763

vegetable garden, which hasn't

764

been coming out, but basically that's

765

going to be similar to the existing

766

one, but built for

767

growing root vegetables.

768

It's going to be more on the

769

edible gardening side of things.

770

Then a much larger

771

pot, which is going to be literally for

772

a low -maintenance garden

773

for schools, hospitals,

774

which they can then grow larger

775

plants and even small trees in.

776

Oh, wow.

777

Very cool.

778

That's incredible, and where can we

779

find out more about Green Circle

780

Gardens?

781

We have our websites and

782

we do some advertising, but other

783

than that, that's about it.

784

Unless you see it's in a hospital or

785

in a school or a care home

786

by you, there's not much other

787

way of finding us.

788

Perfect. On your website then.

789

Awesome.

790

Yes.

791

Well, we'll put the website in the show

792

notes, but before we let you go,

793

we have a final question that we ask

794

all of our guests.

795

What keeps you growing?

796

What keeps me growing?

797

Well, I just love it.

798

I think my grandmother showed me

799

from a young age how

800

nice the garden is and we've always

801

been looking after it.

802

You see how

803

it evolves over time.

804

It's very nice to see how gardens

805

evolve over time.

806

They start small, they grow

807

big, you cut them down, then they grow

808

larger, and you always-

809

It's like a work in progress and

810

it gives a lot of self -satisfaction.

811

That's the reason why I like to

812

garden and to grow my own food.

813

Another reason is also all

814

the pesticides and insecticides that

815

get used on vegetables nowadays.

816

I mean, tomatoes and strawberries,

817

those are the number two.

818

There's something like 26 or 30

819

different types of insecticides and

820

pesticides that could be on the

821

fruit and then they have to be rinsed

822

for, they say, up to 20, 30 seconds

823

underneath a tap to get rid of all the

824

pesticides.

825

I think that's another reason.

826

I think it's important to grow organic

827

and healthy food because

828

what's the point of eating a strawberry

829

if what you're eating is chemicals?

830

You're 100 % right.

831

Thank you so much for contributing to

832

that accessibility for healthy foods.

833

Ian, thank you so much for joining

834

us today. This was amazing.

835

Thank you so much.

836

Thank you Holly and Joe.

837

Yeah, thank you.

838

If you like this show, please like

839

and subscribe on YouTube and rate and

840

review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify

841

or wherever you get podcasts.

842

We're preparing a bunch of special

843

extras for our fresh and nutritious

844

newsletter subscribers.

845

Sign up for free at GrowAbilityPod.com.

846

GrowAbility is hosted by Joe Gansevles

847

and Holly Pugsley.

848

Special thanks to this week's guest,

849

Ian Armour.

850

Our show is produced by Adam Caplan,

851

Joe Gansevles and Holly Pugsley.

852

Production support from Oliver

853

Gansevles, Evan Gansevles,

854

Scott Hohn, Kevin LeBont,

855

Paul Rogers, Doruntina Uka, and

856

Alan Williamson.

857

Holly Pugsley of Just Keep Growing Art

858

Directed this episode and made sure the

859

plants looked great.

860

Audience strategy by Doruntina Uka and

861

Tess Alcock.

862

Our theme music is Wandering William by

863

Adrienne Walther and can be found on

864

Soundstripe.

865

Adam caplan, that's

866

me, is web.isod.es Executive Producer

867

and Sammy Orlowski is our Senior

868

Creator.

869

Thanks to TechAlliance of Southwestern

870

Ontario, including Farida Abdelnabi

871

and Sarah Edmondson for letting us

872

shoot at their beautiful offices.

873

Special thanks to Leanne Gansevles for

874

the support and yummy food, hubert

875

Orlowski for helping our podcast sound

876

great and Gabor Sass for making

877

some great introductions.

878

GrowAbility is a web.isod.es

879

production and is produced with the

880

support and participation of the team

881

at The PATCH and Hutton House.