Season 26, Episode 24 - Shaun Boyce, Bobby Schindler

Tom Ruth and Katie Ruth are the first married couple to join the GoTennis podcast, and they run racket sports programs ten miles apart on Hilton Head Island. Katie is the Director of Racket Sports at Moss Creek, and Tom is the Sports Center Director at Long Cove Club. They break down what it takes to run a tennis and pickleball program inside an HOA, where every amenity loses money and the real job is proving your department deserves its share of the budget.

Key Topics

• The first husband and wife pair on the GoTennis podcast, running HOA racket programs ten miles apart
• How Tom and Katie get real feedback from members, beyond the annual survey
• Why no amenity at either club makes money, and what that means for budget conversations
• The debate over private lessons: inefficient drain or necessary member experience
• How to justify a growing racket budget when golf still comes first
• Katie and Tom's answers to our signature question, king and queen of tennis

Keywords: Tom Ruth, Katie Ruth, Long Cove Club, Moss Creek, Hilton Head tennis, HOA racket sports programs, director of racket sports, tennis club budget, pickleball club management, club member experience, GoTennis podcast, ARA, American Racket Sports Association

Sound Bites: "The more money you touch, the more money you make." "We are in the feelings business." "For fifteen hundred dollars, Tom will wear his pants."

Full YouTube Video: https://youtu.be/-CtH5498sXs

King of Tennis Video Tom: https://youtube.com/shorts/8uceq2Yt0fk?feature=share

Queen of Tennis Video Katie: https://youtube.com/shorts/dqXstT8ne3E?feature=share

are Private Lessons worth it: https://youtu.be/rkVksyQ1A_A

Contact Our Hosts

• Shaun Boyce, RSPA: [email protected] | https://americanracketsportsassociation.com/
• Bobby Schindler, RSPA: [email protected] | https://letsgotennis.com/windermere
• Geovanna Boyce: [email protected] | https://regeovinate.com/
• GoTennis Website: https://letsgotennis.com/

Learn more about the Marc Kaplan Media Excellence Award we (the GoTennis! Podcast) won from USTA Georgia: https://letsgotennis.com/captivate-podcast/gotennis-podcast-wins-the-marc-kaplan-media-excellence-award/

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Note: swap in the YouTube link once you have it. Let me know if Tom or Katie have a club website or LinkedIn you want added as a "Learn more about" link.

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And now let's get into our recent conversation with Tom Ruth and Katie Ruth, the first

husband and wife pair we've had on the show.

Katie runs the Racket Sports Program at Moss Creek in Hilton Head and Tom runs the sports

center about 10 miles down the road at Long Cove Club.

They walk us through what it actually takes to run a tennis and pickleball program inside

an HOA where every amenity loses money and the job is proving your department deserves

its share of the budget anyway.

We also get into a real debate about whether private lessons are worth the time they take

and when we get to our signature question, if you were King or Queen of Tennis, what would

you change?

Tom's answer somehow ends with him building a royal box across from the royals at Wimbledon.

Have a listen and let us know what you think.

Tom Ruth and Katie Ruth, thank you so much for joining us.

We have probably the first time a husband and wife air on the GoTennis! Podcast and we

will start with you Tom and ask the obvious first question which is who are you and why

do we care?

Well thanks Shaun, thanks for having us but I'm going to pass it over to Katie first to let

her answer that question and put me on the spot there but I'll pass it over to Katie

and she can answer first.

Two of mine.

Alright well thanks Tom, I'm Katie Ruth.

I'm the director of Racket Sports at Moss Creek here in Hilton Head, South Carolina.

A little bit about our club.

We have seven tennis courts all hard true and four pickable courts.

The club's been here for 50 years, pretty well known old club.

I've been here in my role as director for five years.

It's an HOA community club with about 1100 homes total so it's fairly large.

Head on the water here in Hilton Head it's got tennis and pickable to 18 Hull golf

courses and Marina, Batchyball, all that good stuff.

Alright so Tom we're going to have to come back to you because Bobby go ahead and jump

right in.

It sounds like you and Katie might have similar roles.

We like the HOA angle right away right that we have a lot of things in common but she lost

me at Batchyball that's when I got excited.

There's that many New Yorkers in Hilton Head that they play Batchyball.

It's the good amount of people that play Batchyball and we've got leaks but sure it's fun.

I'm going to take part at the Batchyball.

He's the Batchyball kind of sir.

I didn't know that was a thing to be a Batchyball kind of sewer but people also play cornholes

and what do I know?

It's true.

It's similar.

Tom tell us about you.

You're not at an HOA though right?

I don't know.

I start off with our Batchy program now or do we say that?

Yeah so Tom Ruth and the lovely husband of Katie Ruth.

So I am right across the bridge in Hilton Head at Longcove Club where I've been for five

years.

Before that I was interestingly enough at Moss Creek where Katie is the director now.

So that makes things very interesting.

So similar to Katie set up where in HOA we've got we're a lot smaller though 570 homes.

Off course Marina Batchy that I am in charge of.

That was one of our biggest growing programs the longest time but here so I take care of

the pool Batchy tennis pickleball but I've been in the racket sports in tennis for 20

plus years now.

I can't believe I can say that.

Serve on the board of the USDA South Carolina and RSPA and try to stay involved.

And as many of the professional organizations as I can also do some coach development for

PTR so that's who I am and I don't know if anybody cares but that's why they should.

And so you are also HOA so I had that missed and you guys run clubs that are down the streets

from each other within like few minutes right?

Yeah depending on traffic but you know we're not at Lanna traffic but yeah I mean we're

I don't know 10 miles apart somewhere somewhere in there so yeah one road apart but yeah both

both HOA clubs.

So that's Bobby's world as well and something very common here in the Atlanta area because

just because you've got just a neighborhood so to speak doesn't mean you're not running

with what Bobby eat 12 courts 12 tennis 6 pickleball and 1200 families right?

Yeah I mean we're big what would you say your percentage of the people that live in your

neighborhood how many of them are tennis players?

Oh good question.

Katie can go I can't so we've got about 200 people that played last year so we're a major

golf community we're on golf digest top lists that they have.

So we've got about 210 players out of the 570 homes so roughly a thousand on our membership

list if you figure two a piece so it's we've got 8 tennis courts though I don't think I put

that in 8 tennis courts for pickleball and roughly 200-ish players playing.

Yeah we've got about 260-ish tennis players.

So we're all in that 25-30% right?

Yeah but we have that would include outside residents that's right so I'd say we probably

closer to 300 within the community so you know about 30% is pretty you know fair from

what my history tells me.

Yeah so our goal and what I always joke with our general manager and with our director

of golf is my goal is to free up T times on the golf course because they say such a big

golfing community that we have the T times are hard to come by so I try to free up the T times

by being more active over here.

And tie to membership to get off the golf course and go play Bocchi.

And Tom you're one of the few that's actually you've got not a director racket sports title

you're sports center director you've got something a little bit different right?

Yeah sports center director so it sounds a lot cooler than maybe it is but like I said I've

got Bocchi we do do a couple cornhole events so we do oversee the pool.

Yeah so it's kind of if it doesn't involve golf you know it's a sport we kind of take it

on.

Well we've been talking about that concept which is what is right for the membership that

you have it doesn't just mean okay Puddles popular so we've got tennis and pickle hall very

for you Jammin Puddle because it's a racket sport we can be a little more open minded and

realize that maybe Bocchi is the way to go maybe we head toward director of court sports

I think is what is used once you have that kind of sports within it where you're not just

racket sports Bobby are you picturing now cornhole tournaments at your club and bringing

in Bocchi I think that's going to work.

Well the Bocchi Cornhole angle there's definitely mixed use there I mean you know the fields

could be somewhat similar flat artificial grass I think it would work you could put your

cornhole on the Bocchi.

I just got to import the little Italians that Bocchi ball in New York down to South Carolina

to make a little more authentic that's all.

I'll even give you it might be sacrilegious but at one point we were doing so well in Bocchi

that we only have two Bocchi courts in the Royce du Shell but we built we would build

four temporary Bocchi courts on Wednesday nights on our tennis courts on our hard troupe

to play Bocchi.

What a great idea that's just it's the UC again that's narrowing down to what does the membership

want rather than just what do we think they want yeah which are often very different things

do you guys add a conversation with somebody recently about finding out what your membership

actually wants and I don't know if enough people do that Katie do you guys do any kind

of holding or surveys how do you find out what your membership wants in that way.

So there's you know this is the main HOA surveys that go out a couple times a year to the membership

to fill out but that's kind of more of a general type thing and then within our department

we'll send out surveys usually annually just to kind of get a little feedback but you know

I mean I think the biggest feedback that we get really is just being out there and being

visible with people you know I mean I try not to hide in my office too much I'm out

there a lot you know just kind of Mingle and then with the people talking a lot and then

that's when they get more comfortable and actually want to share the stuff a lot of the

time when you just send out surveys they don't want to speak up you know because they're

you know they're afraid of how it's going to get taken or you know how it's going to

come across so a lot of the time just just talking with people really is when you find

out the most information I would say.

Tom do you feel the same way members are a little concerned with speaking up can you

not do it in an anonymous fashion?

I mean so we recently interestingly enough when I first got here five years ago they hadn't

haven't had not done a member survey in quite a few years for whatever reason which I found

interesting because as Katie said at Moss Creek they did them a lot and I think they do hers

even quarterly not the whole membership she can confirm that but so we the last two or

three years when we got another a new general manager came in and so we've been using that

to compare and so I would say that they're pretty honest on those surveys sometimes more

than we would like but it helps us get better so but it's all to me it's all useful information

it's always humble in humble you a little bit and you know we always typically in the

two years that we've done in our department is scored really really well and and I think

we do ours through club benchmarking I believe as he's doing ours and so you know comparatively

our MPS scores and all that stuff all rank above the above the line I can't remember the

exact data off the top of my head but you know the the the question and answer the short answer

part are the ones that kind of get you but it's also once you do get them as sort and

through what you know one person will say there's too many events and then the next comment

will be we don't have enough events so it's kind of sort and through to get to get what

it all means is I think the harder parts one thing to take the surveys to what you do with

the information is the the challenge.

That's actually really smart Bobby I just had an idea what you do what club benchmarking

is doing well the surveys themselves are good data not just for the club themselves but

for the organization running the survey because club benchmarking has a lot of data and it

isn't just because they're asking Tom to send in the information they're providing obviously

providing a service that Tom uses that he needs and wants and then also compiling the data

for everybody else it makes me wonder if there's more to do with that from an from an American

Racketsports Association perspective but setting that aside obviously not my idea I'm going

to steal that from club benchmarking but Bobby it sounds like these two like I said similar

roles to what we have a lot of here in Atlanta do you want to start picking and figuring out

what we can learn like the two of them sound like they know what they're doing they're doing

well and what do we need to learn from them to do better here in our area.

Well first of all I mean think about the fact they're actually communicating Tom I was at a pre before

window mirror I was at a club where golf dominated as well to the point where my regional general

manager came to me and said his idea of a successful tennis program was never hearing about it so the

fact that they actually have their ear is a good thing you know he's like if I don't hear about the

tennis you must be doing a great job so that was always my goal was to beat anybody to a comment

but once we did progress into and my fear with surveys is always if you want if you ask people would

you like three more you know we were all hard court so would you like three clay courts of course

we would well okay does that mean we're gonna lose yeah we don't and I think that's a good

niche for us shot is really okay well once we have the data help people interpret because I

unfortunately in our industry the general managers usually come from country club or golf

they're not tennis guys or people so they don't they don't look at you know they look at the data

and don't really get the doubt it's my old analogy just because you eat the restaurant doesn't mean

you know how to run a restaurant and there's there's new wands is they go into it and that is

something I think it would be helpful to speak to them and say no help but you'll get us the data

and let's get some tennis people in who have a different perspective and help you interpret it so

yeah I like that a lot in the fact that they're even doing it again more than most Atlanta clubs did

back in the day because they even have you answered your general manager to a board

assuming it's not corporate yeah and that's the difference so Tom as a Tom or Katie you know

whoever wants to jump in but what's what's something that you guys have learned from that HOA

perspective because you're gonna have that board to deal with as does the GM and then trying to figure

out how to run the best rackets or athletics department that you can what is what works what

doesn't work it's kind of an open-ended question what if you what if you learned that you think is

is important go for it Katie yeah I knew you're gonna set up on the spot again now I mean you know for

me this this is kind of my first director role too so you know I've learned a lot just a general period

but you know I think I don't really have much interaction day-to-day with you know the main HOA board

obviously I report to the general manager general manager then goes to the board but you know I don't

really have meetings with the HOA board or anything like that I do have a racket club board that we

meet with once a month but you know their job is kind of more to look at the social side within the

rackets program so any social events that we do that kind of thing it is a little bit slowly

changing as our GMs have changed so I've been here five years I'm now an our third general manager

in three years but the one that was here when I got it was different and years so that was a long time

but you know and the guy we have now Matthew Stangerberg is very very good hopefully he stays

a long time but you know he does a great job helping me and supporting me and and the rackets program

to get more resources and I think that's kind of been the biggest challenge over the years is

getting the resources getting the funding from from the HOA board to you know get what you need I

mean costs to go and up on everything equipment you know supplies I mean you name it so it's like

you know trying to keep the funding that you need to keep a good you know program keep your

facilities looking great that kind of thing so that that's been the biggest challenge and you know for

me when it comes budget time I've learned so much about you know how to get those additional resources

what you know how can we convince the board that we need a B and C you know going forward so

yeah that's kind of been the the biggest challenge and I'm gonna jump in and I think an important point

you know when you says it was interesting Bobby that you said something about the GMs in Atlanta so

both of our general managers now Matthew at Lost Creek and Mario Camposano here at you know

originally started their formative years were all in Atlanta so they they were are familiar without

the tennis and the tennis world and they're in over there so so they know about it and yeah so but

anyway I mean to answer that question going back to that is just for me our committee is a little

more involved that I have a board member that serves as the chair of our committee as the head of our

committee they report every month to our committee what's going on on the board the general manager

he's in every one of our committee millions of everyone that he can be and I should say but it's

95% of them and if he's not there he's still sending a report about what's going on

and and really it comes down to my job at the end of the day is to help them enjoy their experience

one and two make sure their property value holds or goes up for that matter so those are the two is

that they have a great experience while they're here and and that's the challenge sometimes is

convincing be in a normal business perspective some of the decisions we make don't make sense

but when you look at it from a member experience perspective it does make sense and I think that's

the challenge when you're dealing sometimes with boards and committees especially people that

have been successful in their lives for the most part of run businesses and for us it's it doesn't

come down to a normal business it's you know we may spend a little extra so that you have a better

experience than cut corners so that we make money. I know you're going to want to talk about that

no I was going to ask that because I mean as Tom just said what you're trying to convince them is

this is whether you're a tennis player or not this is an investment in your property and when it

because ultimately you're going to sell this property and you want it the best return on it so you

want people to look at a thriving program and say that's why the future even though you don't play

the person who buys the house that might be the reason they come in here and you know that's a

that's a tough thing to do because it's everybody looks at things very biopically and that that long term

perspective is part of our challenge I mean one of the things that we've tried to do here is raise the

brand of the tennis professional we always laugh you know I've said it a thousand times the pga

card people genuinely flexed in front of when you say your ptr rspa they say what's that so you know

that we're trying to raise the idea of the certified professionals we've come a long way granted

I mean but now there is safe play you know you do have to there are background checks I mean we

used to let people you know we're dealing with kids and we weren't doing background checks on people

there was there was a lot of craziness going on and you know we're we're slowly but surely

but you would think money resonates with everybody

I've done it again I shut the room on it with completely lose Bobby or can I just not hear it oh my god

am I there you know no no we just didn't hear the end of it sorry no I just stop I said no oh I'm sorry

I was like great I'm still I got a lot of bars too I'm technology doesn't seem to be the issue today

no hopefully not but yes I'd love to and I think you're right on the track with that

I think you're right on so what do we do there's been a lot of changes over the what

is the question I wish I had the answer to that

that I mean I think the the key is I think professionalism is number one I mean I think that's for me

and it's funny you can't use laughing at me the other day I mean one of the things that

that I'm always gonna do or that I always do is that you know any committee meeting I go to and

and pants and and and a nice shirt that's really put on the suit coat because that's not what we do here

but you know 20 years ago one of my goals was to never wear pants again in my life that's why I

will want it to be a tennis pro so I never have to wear pants and and now at least once and

least once a month I'm putting on pants and and it isn't a big deal not really because most of

you know a lot of our people are retired and they're serving on a committee and they're showing up

and and they're just showing up and their casual clothes or they're tennis clothes because they're

gonna play when they're done but it you know it kind of sets the tone that hey you know I'm not just

the tennis pro I'm here with important information for you you know and so I'm gonna dress like I

have important information as a big deal maybe maybe not depends on who you ask but to me I feel like

it is I think it shows a level of professionalism yeah and probably could be done more often and

adding a collar not a difficult thing to do but we don't think about those things we don't think about

the showing that professionalism we say we want to be respected for this this career that we're

in and we're running a full business oh and by the way Bobby loves to the job because you can wear

shorts to work that's okay but when you come down to a business conversation you show up to a

board meeting in my opinion don't show up in your shorty shorts then take it seriously and walk in

and look like you're there to have a real business conversation and yes Tom you're right we see

that a lot an amenity is very different from a revenue generating department that has to look

at bottom line amenities are run very differently and that's why I was looking forward to this conversation

because it's it's Bobby's world times three because that that happens a lot more here especially in

the south than the fancy country club world where you really got to make money but even then they're

being often considered as an amenity because golf subsidizes and membership subsidize so figuring

out what's next and how to make that even better is always a fun question to ask and so that's I

mean I had a general manager when I said Moss Creek who you know okay he's went through three and I

only had two in my 10 years there but you know I had when I first started the general manager we

had a talk and and I said well I know that golf gets more in and because they and and he stopped me

he said just remember that no department no department no amenity in this club whether it's dining

the marina the fitness tennis none of them make money period he's like they're all subsidized by the

dues and the members none of make money you know and so that was that always kind of stuck is

just how much we just happened to lose a little less than the rest of the ability and so how do we

how do we work within that because they're very different businesses and there's a lot of what

business support there's a lot of business support that comes out that says all right we can help

you do this and we can check your bottom line and what's your ROI on these things and what about your

accounts receivable and let's talk about all these things but at some level all right a lot of

these amenities I don't want to say they don't care about accounts receivable because you still

got to get paid for services provided but the ROI has a different perspective Katie do you see that

at your club as well where you're providing the service as much as you're getting real getting paid

for it correct 100% you know and obviously that that's as Tom said you know that's kind of your HOA

you know how it works a little bit like Tom said like every amenities lose in money and you know

rackets doesn't bring in as much revenue as golf or dining however it loses less so you know I think

the way we talk about these conversations I think we just have to be smart in how we talk about it

and kind of you know educate people a little bit more on how on how that works to kind of get the

conversation rolling a little bit more I was at you know the PTR W Women Who Rally session a

couple weeks ago it's having a lot of conversations with some of the you know ladies they're

going to direct us a clubs but they're at revenue based clubs and they couldn't even get their head

around the fact that we're not about revenue you know because these are more corporate type clubs and

the questions I was getting I mean they some of them had no clue how they would even operate

you know a club to enhance member experience and not about revenue because they're so different

and the real answer that you're looking for is your I mean at least for me is my department getting

the appropriate percentage of that overall budget you know based on that we one of the first

things that I had to do what when I got here was show that hey you know we're running on a budget

that was the same when it was just eight tennis courts and now you've thrown into Bachi courts you've

thrown in a pool you know part of a pool some of it comes out of a different area and four pickle

ball courts so we went from you know servicing X number to high number which was almost double and

you know so we had to have some serious discussions about the budget implications of that you know

and and it affects the whole club though because if I take more from the pot then then then

something then somebody else has to give something up or they increase the dues which we know how

that goes so so that was it you know it's so it's been a you know that's that was a tough

conversation and and I know that that there's it's out there like what the percentages are somewhere

somebody has it maybe maybe you have it that you know should be allocated to or what healthy clubs

are doing or something like that you know what's an appropriate percentage based on your membership

a big based on your dues or based on your membership number so I think that's really it's not

necessarily the down to the dollars of what you're getting it's more are you getting the percentage

that you should be based on the number of people that you're serving.

I mean do you agree with that perspective?

To a point I want to curiosity I like to ask both because with the turnover I always found that

the new general manager usually expertise was where our finances were lacking the most so if we

you know for revenue restaurant revenue was down the new general manager had a tendency to be

have a restaurant background that they were always trying to pump up what they didn't have

and is it time to admit it's almost like your card dealership that they're always crying well

you know I don't make any money but then you're in the wrong business if you want to get rich

do you go into the club business?

if that is your intention is to make a lot of money.

I think I've got to buy 20 of them.

I've got to give my friend Doug Cash a little shout out

that what he said once was what I'm trying to remember the exact phrase but you know the more money

you touch the more money you make basically right so the more money that goes through your hands

the more money you're going to make so hence why the you know each level you make more money right

because if I'm over five different departments if I'm over you know and that's where I'm at how to

you know trying to figure out a way how to diversify myself if I'm over if I'm bringing in money for

botchi and pickable and all and all these different areas then in theory I'm worth more you know

that's why the head head of the company the CEOs the GM's whatever you know they get paid more

because they're in charge of all the different departments in the grand scheme of things so I mean

I think that's the simple answer Bobby to your your question is if you want to make more money and

you know like I said in Doug's words if you want to make more money you've got to touch more money

is that literal? Did I just sit here touching money as I

said I make a misquoted him so I know he's on the hopefully he doesn't catch word my phone

hadn't started ringing yet so he hasn't seen it yet but it's it's it's something along those lines

but I guess that's my answer to that to that part Bobby is that it says that yeah I mean if you want

to or you've just got to figure out a way to to get more people through the door

but the the part that I'm trying to figure out right now is how to quantify that member experience

and I think that's the big one how you know how I take now that I said hey we're doing a great job we're

providing something that we didn't before and yeah it costs us extra money but now it's made

that experience for our players that much better and it's worth that investment when there's not that ROI

that we were talking about earlier there's not a specific it's just people's feelings and but which

is what we're at you know somebody one time said I don't care about their feelings I said but that's

the business we're in is the we are in the feelings business yeah because the general manager is going

to come in and say oh you're providing a great service prove it and without the member surveys and

without the response of the members saying this is fantastic I can't live without this I know it

doesn't make any money but I need time to run more cornhole events or whatever it is that needs to

happen you need that member response because that is going to be the proof and that's that's what

we want to hear as a GM that says okay I'm we're spending money on this this costs us money

and vince me it's worth it and I think the hard part you know back to the surveys is I like the surveys

I like data I like trying to figure out what it means it present you know what is all this mean I

enjoy that the the hard part though is sometimes you know if I if we were to do something

of made we have a really great event right before the survey comes out it kind of impacts the scores

in a good way and vice versa if you have a terrible event we you know you you had the club championships

it rained all week yet everybody had a terrible time you know you did the best you could but

whatever happened and then the survey goes out the next week not because it was you know just that's

what happens it kind of people remember that last event that they played in and kind of put that

in the survey as opposed to thinking about it in the big big picture of well you know they they ran

17 other events that were amazing and but they remember that last event that just happened

or that last experience and it could be good you know so I think sometimes the surveys when you

only do them once a year get kind of can be skewed by one event that just happened

yeah and that's back to Katie's perspective you got to be out there you got to be available you

got to be with everybody and out of conversation recently with another director of ragots in San Diego

area and we were talking about how much time should a director bend at the club but not on court and

as Katie says try not to be in your office the whole time being available being present being on

court the whole time is not availability that just shows you're out there making money and then the

one-on-one relationship don't get Bobby started on the whole private lessons being inefficient

scenario but in this case being present and actually being there for the members is is really

important and I think that's where you can get a lot of your feedback as well hold on can we go back

one step because we just it is laughing because I we just had this conversation this morning

Bobby I would love to hear that perspective because in my mind and again I may get kicked out of every

tennis organization I'm in if we never had another private lesson ever again it would not hurt my

feelings because it to me it's inefficient okay and let me tell you doesn't get more

interesting as you get older that went on rent it gets worse as you get older trust me there you

you know because you got to perform you know you got to look the part so going out and having to

hit for an hour when you can feed balls with eight other people on the court again just this year math

especially post-COVID I mean you know I don't know where you guys ratios are we were always pretty tight

and laying a four to one six to one post-COVID we can go 10 maybe even 12 to one on a on a given drill

and you can charge people less they feel like they're paying less and you're still walking out with

$200 for an hour and a half drill which is a nice use of your time you know so yeah I'm not a

for Bobby just so we have a little bit of perspective as well the typical hourly rate

for what Bobby's talking about for a private lesson is still less than $80 an hour

at certain clubs here in the Atlanta area so sorry but from a national perspective saying I make $200

an hour an app doesn't have the right context but in this case it that's a better perspective like

teaching the private lesson the one-to-one ratio yes unless you're building the relationship with a

member that you get to have every I looked at somebody the other day and I said your private lesson

as director of rocket sports somebody wants a private lesson with you it should be $1,500 an hour

that that is what that's pulling me out of the office it's pulling me away from the other members

you're gonna get me one on one on a court I will do it but it's gonna be a lot I appreciate that if

I let you know how this you will have no more private lessons promise me so you have any yet

but you know in the jump on that real quick but for so for me it's it's again it goes back to the

member experience it's I know that we have to offer and I say that that I would never do it again I know

that some people want that they want that badly and we have to be able to provide that whether it's

me or one of the other pros that we've got here but when I look at the numbers at the end of the

month and again I don't look at the revenue numbers I'm looking at how many hours were they were

out there how many people they impacted and if it was a time of just private lessons I mean

they I've looked at months where it's like you know they had a full book of lessons and they impacted

15 members that is not when we've got two so that puts you know in a small squarely two three of us

that teach so if there's only three of us that teach we have 210 players and I've got you know

between my two other two pros are only reaching 20 people what what's happening to the other 180

people you know and that to me is the big for for me again it's not a revenue based thing it's a

however they get me experience and so if we're only cater you know I say catering to take take

that the wrong way but if we're only impacting those 20 people and that takes a as you said it takes

a lot of effort a lot of time a lot of bandwidth for a person to do a private lesson to do it to

do it really well at that high level but if which only impacting 20 people are we getting you know

it's hard to to for me to look at and say how we we need more impact than that

sorry now you're really good one fact if because well no because they're they're going to go down

the street to Bobby say you know what I'm getting a better experience down there and Bobby's

dealing with 10 to 12 people per hour if not more if he's got two pros and those numbers and you're

talking about giving more people a better member experience so it's an interesting perspective

trying to balance those types of interactions and you want a private lesson that's great we have

young tennis pro over here who would be happy to give you a private lesson but I'm $1,500

an hour

I'm out to change I'm out to change the industry you know what director of ragas

for $1,500 time awareness pants no I said for $1,500 time awareness pants

I couldn't exactly I had to go

yeah no today I feel like it was at 120 it feels like 120 right now out there in South Carolina so

it might take more than 1500 to put the pants on today

seeing that was sounding reasonable isn't it well I appreciate your time and this has been fun

and getting to know how similar South Carolina can be even though it's in Hilton heads you got fancy

marinas and and bachi we don't have that a lot here but Bobby got anything else for me before I

hit him with King and Queen of Tennis I'm happy with bachi and pants that's what I'm walking out of you

with bachi wearing your pants as long as you're wearing your pants we're good Tom

and $1,500 lessons got it we have figured this industry out Bobby I told you we'd figure this

industry out it wasn't going to stay that long only five years of podcasting we got well

in this case I will actually we will start with Katie and say specifically because we're going to

put Tom was just going to kick it to you anyway so we might as well just skip that part and and

blame it on me instead of him so when you guys are having dinner tonight you can

you can have a happier time but we are our final question and you each get it is if you were King

or Queen in this case of tennis is there anything you would do or change and that is for

anything in the world whether it's professional social in the club South Carolina only the whole

world the universe any perspective you can consider Katie if you were Queen of tennis is there anything

you would do or change that's a good question well I don't know if I would have the answer to this

per se but I would figure out a way to change our USDA rating system a little bit it's a little bit

crazy I like I said I don't think I really have the answer to that but figure out you know just a way

to kind of take the stress out of it a little bit I mean you got there's so much stress and

league tennis people trying to protect their rating and you know move up ratings that you know

figure out a way to to make tennis more fun more enjoyable without having the stress of

is my rating gonna go down is my you know my friends are gonna play with me anymore because I'm not a

three you know you know just that kind of thing just trying to figure out you know how to bring tennis

back to you know a little bit more social and a little less competitive I like that perspective

Bobby sounds like a recent UTR conversation we've had and Dr. Maxi with a bear having a similar

perspective yes play Ozzy Osborne while they're playing playing tennis that brings everybody together

80s rock 80s rock it brings everybody into the field a little don't stop believing everybody does

Steve ferry it just everybody's equal they can't match it so it's we're all equal they try that I'm

gonna let you know how it goes here and help and that please do again change and change in the world

Bobby this is good we'll see what happens Katie's gonna be playing music Tom's Tom's lesson rate

just skyrocketed we're doing well in this one so Tom same question only king of tennis yeah is there

anything you would do or change well I've got two things and I've got two things that I'm gonna change

one one I don't think I can actually do but one that I that I'm gonna say that we can all do in the

next two minutes but the first one is I'm definitely building a royal box directly across from the

actual royal box it wimbledon so that I can wave to all the royals while I'm there so as the now

the king of tennis I've now got my own royal box it won't nearly it won't be nearly as big it'll be

a more exclusive invite list but you know we'll see how that goes so that's number one but but the other

one that I think that we can all do and it's kind of my goal is I really truly believe that we can

you know tell the story of tennis and and tell the benefits of tennis you know it's not just

a competitive sport at the highest levels it is it's some of the league levels it is but more

than being a competitive sport it's something you know as we talk about the private lesson thing

is it's something that brings people together something that brings communities together

something that people it they're healthy or telling that story of of what tennis can be for people

and for communities I think we can all do and I think that's something we can all do today tomorrow

and actually make that change and and and instead of some of the negativity that sometimes

gets out about as Katie was at tennis and what happens when you join tennis clubs and it's

exclusive and this and that is that it's anybody can play and you can play for a really long time so I

think that's the bigger part of what I think we can all do is just telling the story of tennis and

and what it's done for you and your life so there you go am I still a kid Bobby

Bobby's speaking the language again right from the man who wears pants still a softful words of wisdom

I like it Tom I'm gonna leave you're never gonna live that down as long as I'm still the king baby

he's the king you don't have to wear pants either see you don't have to worry about it it's good to be the

king it's good to be the king good to be the king nice reference I like that will Katie Tom thank

you so much for your time we appreciate getting to know you and sharing some of your expertise and your

experience as well sometimes we don't feel like it's expertise but it really is it really is that we've

spent if you spend five years or more doing something you should be an expert at some point I think

there are plenty of people that have realized that and some of us in the industry in general have spent

25 plus years doing that so we appreciate you sharing everything that we've had time to get to

today so Bobby and I appreciate that and we will be in touch we will make sure that we add your club

and contact information because one of the things we like to do is make connections if you don't mind

of course I'll get your permission but for those that are interested in understanding the HRA system

and how that works and how to be a good rackets program general managers should even probably be

encouraged to learn more about their rackets programs I think that's something we can do better as an

industry as well but we want to make sure that everybody gets the best information possible and that

this podcast specifically as well does its job which is we're going to find what's there let's find

king and queen answers let's say you know what these are things that need to be changed sometimes

it's just fun it's going to be Tom no pants in his own box across from the royals that Wimbledon

it's going to be great but other times it's a little more serious where Katie says you know what we

need to maybe take this game a little less seriously sometimes yeah which obviously she married the

right guy to be able to do that so I appreciate the both of you we appreciate the both of you

and we will chat again soon thanks so much for your time well there you have it we want to thank

reGeovinate.com for use of the studio and signature tennis for their support and be sure to hit that

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