When I first went to Taiwan I noticed that around most of the larger temples there was a street of 算命師, fortune tellers. Some would use the ba gua, others attended to your birthdate, palm or some combination of numbers. Others would look at the face. The Chinese medicine section in bookstores would also have books that explained hot to use maps of the face to diagnose health concerns. In East Asia, it's common knowledge that there is more written on the face than we in West attend to. Our guest in today's episode learned to read faces at her grandmother's knee, she in turn had learned from her father, a successful businessman. Listen in and learn how paying attention to certain aspects of the face not only will help you better diagnose and treat your patient's, but give you clues in better understanding and communicating with them based on how they see the world and process information.

Head on over to the show notes page for more information about this episode and for links to the resources discussed in the interview. 

The medicine of east Asia is based on a science that does not hold

itself separate from the phenomenon that it seeks to understand our

medicine did not grow at a Petri dish experimentation or a double blind studies.

It arose from observing nature and our part in it.

East Asian medicine evolves not from the examination of dead structures, but

rather from living systems with their complex mutually entangled interactions.

Welcome to chia logical.

I'm Michael max, the host of this podcast that goes in depth on issues, pertinent to

practitioners and students of east Asia.

Dialogue and discussion have always been elemental to Chinese

and other east Asian medicines.

Listening to these conversations with experienced practitioners that go deep

into how this ancient medicine is alive and unfolding and hotter and clinic.

Hi everybody.

Welcome back to qiological today.

We're visiting with Lillian bridges.

Lillian is one of the foremost experts on facial reading and diagnosis.

She's taught and lectured at numerous conferences and schools since the

early nineties, she's the author of several books on facial diagnosis.

She also works interestingly enough, with major developers, architects,

corporations, and private clients to create ergonomic and aesthetic buildings

and personal environments using the principles of Dallas' design and function.

Her experience with Chinese medicine, Taoism and facial diagnosis and facial

reading comes from her family lineage.

She runs the Lotus Institute and the Emerald city, Seattle Washington.

My old stomping ground.

And I'm delighted to have her with us here today on qiological Lillian.

Welcome.

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

I'm really psyched about this.

I spent a little time in Taiwan, um, which was great.

And when I first got there, I would, I'd love to go to these temples

because they're just so Rawkus and around the temples, you'd always

find these swimming suits, right?

These fortune tellers.

And maybe do another, you know, they do the Bhagwan or they

do neurology or this or that.

Yeah.

Read your Palm.

And some of them would read the face.

That was like the first introduction that I had to some of this stuff.

And then, and then the bookstore is in both China and Taiwan.

They're often in the Chinese medicine section.

Right.

Have, yeah.

A lot of stuff on facial diagnosis.

So I'm curious to know.

Where does your family tradition fit in with all of this?

Well, my grandmother was an extraordinary face feeder and she

learned from her father and her father was actually a businessman.

There are people that Elliot definitely use it for medicine,

but he was a businessman actually.

And he used it to do business.

And that's one of the ways that he got successful actually.

And she wasn't supposed to learn because she was a girl, but she also didn't

have her feet, her feet bound because he didn't want to cause her any pain.

So he actually taught.

And so she learned from him, um, you know, at his knee and

I learned from her at her knee.

So I started learning how to read faces when I was very

young, about five years old.

Wow.

Yeah.

What's it like growing up in a family with people that can read a face?

Well, it's pretty extraordinary.

Actually.

I have to say I just, as a side, um, it wasn't always that they

told you good things either.

It's like, they would know if you were sick and they would, they would know

every emotion that you were feeling.

It wasn't like you could hide it very well.

So, yeah, you were called on about everything.

So yeah, people, people would read you constantly.

And it was, I mean, I was used to it because I grew up with that, but

it wasn't til I was older that I realized other people didn't do that.

So.

You use this for medicine clearly from some of your background, you're

also using this with business.

Yeah.

Sometimes I, I definitely want to talk about medicine because that's the main

thing that we do here, but I'm curious to hear how this helps them business.

Well, I think that helps communication.

It's like, if you, if you understand, like how someone makes decisions, then you're

going to be able to look to give them information the way they can receive it.

Okay.

So it's actually really helpful to understand that this person needs to

have, you know, written information.

This person needs to have things, you know, talk.

They did talk about several times or know this other person needs to spend some

time thinking about it and someone else might make up their mind really fast.

And so there's a lot of trades that show up really easily, but I think

people can learn to read that, help them understand how to deal with someone else.

Right.

So it it's very helpful with a person's communication style.

If you understand how they take the process information.

So this would be like in your marriage.

Not mine.

I don't have one, but yes.

Yeah.

It can be very helpful.

I mean, I think people often try to assume that everyone's like, like them,

you know, it's like, and they're not, I think the biggest gift I can give

my students with face reading is to make them understand that everybody's

really different and that their traits that they have that have nothing to do

with how they feel about you, but they just, they just don't do what you do.

They don't feel the way you feel.

And I think it promotes understanding that's my favorite part about it.

I, you know, I've seen this certainly in my clinic, I've seen

it in my personal relationships.

I have my preferred way of doing something or my preferred way of

communicating it and my preferred way of getting information.

And it works really well for me.

And if the person that I'm trying to connect with, they don't access

information in the same way.

Right.

Well, I was going to say, I think they're a jerk.

They probably think I'm a jerk.

I just think they're dense or something like that.

So yeah, it's very easy to have a mismatch.

It does.

And I think it, I think it eliminates a lot of the expectations that we

have for the people to be like us.

And I just, I love that it promotes understanding of other people.

And so the traits are relationship.

I mean, everything's right there in your face.

There's so much information there.

Can you and, you know, and again, I mean, we're, we're we're podcast, you

know, we can't actually look at faces.

Now we can conjure up, you know, ideas of faces and I'm sure that there's all

kinds of, you know, this stuff gets really involved, but can you give us

some basic guidelines or some things to look for to help us so that we

can, I was going to say clean up our communication, or just be more clear with

our communication, know where someone's coming from so we can be a effective.

And how we're connecting.

Can you get, can you give us a few points?

Sure.

One of the easiest ones I've taught this many, many times to sales people is to

look at the three zones of the face.

And the three zones are the average hair line to the top of the eyebrows and the

top of the eyebrows to the bottom of the nose, the nose, the bottom of the chin.

And whatever one is largest actually gives you really good

information about how people process information and how they decide.

Um, so for example, I once had a client who has a very big

bottom zone, very instinctive.

Bri full mouth, which makes her very impulsive.

And she told me she met her husband and knew instantly, this is the man for her.

And I said, well, how long did it take you to get married?

Is seven years.

It's seven years.

She said, yeah, he has a really big episode.

And she said, he read a lot of pros and cons lists and he went back

and forth for seven years until finally she gave him an ultimatum.

But that was the difference between them.

He had to process and things and think about it and like, You'll get

information and make an informed decision.

And she understood that.

So she just let him have his time.

It was very cute because he took seven years.

That's funny, but you know, a great story.

So we're talking the three zones from, well, you know, with me,

I mean, my hairline goes all the way back to the NAPE of my.

What's where your hair like used to be that case, which

is still have a high forehead.

So you actually a person who does need some information, but not, but

not solely because you other, other features that are, that are good too.

But it's interesting because when someone is very instinctive, they

make decisions very quickly and someone else needs to think about it.

Can't understand why someone's deciding so fast, where they just know right away.

That's what I want.

And it's hard for someone who is.

Act like that, or think like that, to understand how you could possibly

make such a rash decision where it's not actually rash it's well-informed

for them because they're quick.

Yes.

They're, they're working off the intuitive.

They've got a whole different sensibility about how things connect.

So for them, the decision comes quickly.

And for someone else, they need to go over the spreadsheets about

six times and then worry about it.

Well, I have to say pros and cons lists.

Don't usually make you decisive.

I just have to say it's a pros and cons list.

Don't usually make you decisive.

They usually make you indecisive.

That's a great phrase.

I mean, it took me a moment.

I had to ask you to say it again.

I think that's true.

And I watch people around me who struggle with that pro and con thing and

because it, and yes, it actually makes them less decisive, not more decisive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And this is the middle zone, which we didn't talk about is the practical zone.

And that's where decisions are made on fulfilling a need, um, you know,

fixing something, solving something, saving time or energy or money.

And that's a very different person.

So practicality is a really big, big issue for them.

And if you're not being practical, they'll kind of go,

why aren't you being practical?

It's like, well, why are you doing that?

Like, why are you spending that?

Why, why are you wasting time?

So what would you look for in the middle zone to know you're

looking at a middle zone.

Usually you're looking for a fairly long nose and sometimes high eyebrows as well.

And I'll give you a cute story.

I, I have a friend who's married to a man who likes to think that he's practical,

cause he's a businessman, but he's not.

And luckily he's got a very wonderfully, um, you know, efficient

and, uh, and wonderfully practical assistant, personal assistant.

And so, um, he is the kind of person who.

Who will go out, forget to do something and go back out again.

He rarely rec writes a list and says, okay, I'm gonna go

to the drug drugstore here.

And I'm going to go to the hardware store there.

And I'm going to go to the grocery store there.

He'll just keep going out at different times of the day.

Like, oh, I can just go the grocery store, even though it's next door to

the hardware store, you know, he'll just keep on making these extra trips.

And it makes her crazy because she likes to go on one trip

and go to all three places.

And so practicality is about saving time, manage your money and, you know, it's.

It's not as decisive as instinctive zone, bottom zone, but it's

definitely faster than the mental, the mental zone is the slowest.

Yes.

But they spend a lot of time thinking they're good at things.

Oh, I, I, I, again, I, I noticed this in certain patients in particular.

Right?

Right.

Well, if you have personal high zone, I said one, give them information

about the research in acupuncture, and they'd be thrilled to know about that.

Whereas someone who's practical, you may have to say, you know, this is going

to take at least six sessions, so don't expect any results for like at least

three or four, just to see something.

And then they'll feel a lot calmer.

It's like, okay, I can do succession.

Yeah.

Whereas someone else might just be so ready to say, oh, I want that

supplement or whatever it is that you're, you're telling them to say together.

That's right.

That's, that's what I want.

Or that point.

Oh yeah.

Do that point again because they know that works.

So in, in learning to begin to read the face and see and understand how people

process, I mean, we have to become quite adaptive then in how we convince.

Uh, I think so.

It's like, um, I find myself teaching cause I have a pretty strong

middle zone asking my students.

Does this make sense to you?

Which is a very middle zone comments, you know, it's like a question and I

find myself going, okay, do you need more information to people who need

more information and they go, yeah.

Yeah.

And one of the things I found, if you ask a Mitchell's own person,

what do you think they'll answer?

If you ask the bottoms of the person, how do you feel.

If you ask a person, does this make sense to you or does this solve your problem?

They'll be really happy if you're asking zone person, how do you feel?

They'll say fine.

Why?

Because that's not where they're living.

So we're just be fine.

If you ask him a bottom zone person, what do you think about that?

I don't know.

It just, they won't be there.

That's not where they live.

It sounds fun.

And it sounds doable.

I mean, it sounds like it's fairly easy.

It's a good entree.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The only problem is if you have all three zones matching, then you, then

you have to wait till everything the stars light up, basically.

So it makes you, it makes you very accurate in your decisions, but it's

something that takes a little while and it, and could it be that sometimes

people actually have a pretty good balance between those things and you

can, you can work in all those channels.

So.

Sometimes.

Yeah.

I mean, if I find myself as I'm any older, getting more balanced and

I have to tell you it's a little frustrating, cause I used to be

much more able to, to make decisions based on practicality or instinct.

Cause I have what I call a zone war.

You know, I have two zones that are very similar and now because I'm thinking

more, I find myself a bit more indecisive, but when I make a really good decision,

everything lines up and it's great.

Wow.

I didn't.

I had no idea.

We're actually going to take the conversation in this direction.

It's really, it's really interesting.

And it, and it makes me wonder too, from a practice management point of

view, I mean, you talk about using this for business and of course we want

to use this to help people medically.

We're going to get to that in a minute, but from a business point

of view, this seems like it could be really helpful for people.

I think it is.

I mean, this is one of the number one things I teach to businesses

because it's fast and it's also useful because it's, uh, another

form of nonverbal communication.

It's like, okay, here's how I relate to someone else.

And, um, I, I find that to be so helpful and it's, it takes away a lot

of the myths misunderstandings faces are interesting these days because.

Well, they're always interesting, but these things, because you know, a lot

of people get Botox or their surgeries.

I mean, there's all kinds of ways that people manipulate their faces these days.

I can usually tell.

Yeah, well, Botox is pretty easy to.

Yeah, it's frozen liver GI in the freezes, the liver, it looks like the Chinese have

a saying where if someone has a frozen area of their face, it looks like mutton

fat J which is that marbly white Jade.

And it really does look just like that.

So would you see things like Botox treatments sort of working backwards

and causing stagnation in the liver?

Well, absolutely.

And my biggest concern and, you know, people can do whatever they want.

I'm not going to be judgemental and tell them what to do.

If they ask me what I think I will tell them.

And Botox has concerned me for a number of years, because it does have at,

at its core, a neurotoxin involved, that's supposed to be inactive, but

it still acts upon the body and the liver of course, deals with all toxins.

So what you see when someone gets Botox, especially between the

eyebrows, is that there is the problem with the, um, the bone barrier.

There it is porous, and it does go into the brain and lodge, the brain

and studies have shown that now.

And it also prevents people from feeling and expressing anger and sadness.

And I, I think that wrinkles are fairly easy to let go of, by the

way, if you, if you want to do some personal interpersonal work, like.

What is some therapy, for example, about the fact that you're impatient

or annoyed or frustrated or whatever.

And you know, you've got to repress liver here.

You can get rid of these wrinkles anyway, but people don't want to do that.

They want to do it fast and right now, and not change their behavior.

So they get Botox.

The problem is he can't feel or express anger or sadness.

Well, what that means your, your liver is frozen, so's your heart.

So there's a problem there.

And what happens to those emotions?

You know, um, what happens to your blood sugar to release those emotions?

It freezes you.

So I I'm concerned about that.

What about facial acupuncture is kind of a popular thing these days?

Yeah.

So, so tell us about what you like about it and, and how you see it helping

a person beyond they look 10 years.

Well, there's the reason why I like it is because there's a facial map

kind of like brings a tree and you actually have like, um, like I use a

map of a hundred, it says 150 places.

And because facial acupuncture hits so many points, you're

actually helping people with their traumas because what marks on the

facial map is previous traumas.

So even though it can't re release the trauma complete.

It definitely starts, um, activating something that helps people go

through a process of letting go of things they're holding onto.

So facial acupuncture hits some really great things, especially at

your acupuncture cause it's childhood and it releases maybe the top level

of, of some trauma from childhood.

So I think it's great.

Um, pretty familiar with your acupuncture.

I think most of us are.

Yeah, I don't actually practice.

I just, I just teach.

So you actually, so you, you don't have a background in acupuncture.

You have a background in growing up at your, uh, at your grandmother's.

The old fashioned apprenticeship method, which is what Chinese

medicine is and always was.

That's great.

Yeah, no, I just, I mean, I love it.

I, I hear you saying, you know, working on the face and the first thing that

comes up for me and talking about these maps, I want to get a little

more into it in a moment is, uh, that, you know, you can free up traumas.

You can free up various things that are frozen and locked in

and it makes me think, oh wow.

You have face as microsystem.

Well, yeah, that makes sense.

It is, and what's really hard are the faces that there's

a macrocosmic facial map.

There's also microcosmic, for example, all around the eyes is every organ.

So that's why some of the, some of the face reading techniques

look like they're different.

They're not really of just give an example, the tip of the nose.

In some systems and face, we can talk about the spleen be here, which I actually

agree with, because this is a warehouse.

So an earth warehouse on top of what I consider the heart and then the

lungs, which are the rest of the nose.

It's easy to see that the lungs are actually involved with breathing.

Okay.

But if you look at the body, you'll see the heart is in the

center of the lungs surrounding it.

And so here's the.

Here's the lungs, right?

Exactly.

The same thing.

And the spleen here is it's pretty close.

You know, it's over on one side.

And if someone has like, um, plumpness and the end of the nose,

they have extra spleen energy there.

And so different systems might say, oh, that sleep.

Yeah.

It's there to, it's a warehouse in my system, but it doesn't show as

much about the spleen diagnostically except for blood to a spleen blood.

So if, if the nose is sort of large and.

This is a sign of, of additional splinter.

Usually yes.

And it color it color goes in there too.

So if you're, if you're smaller here, there's usually a little

bit of lack of a spleen, uh, strength and also in spleen blood.

So you look at, look at spleen blood deficiency, which is

what I usually recommend.

People eat like grass fed beef.

That's my usual, my usual remedy or beats or whatever.

Plenty of that here in Missouri.

Just go down the street.

It's every work benefit of living in the Midwest.

When you mentioned ear acupuncture a moment ago, you said something that I've

never heard anyone say before, which is it, it connects more with China.

Yes, early childhood is on one ear and late shows on other, depending

if you're a man or woman, because there's a you inside the young side.

So women start counting on the right and men start counting

the left and Michael Smith.

I mean a great man unfortunately passes away.

Um, he, and I've had many discussions in the past about your acupuncture and why

it worked so well with drug addiction and, um, Just addiction in general.

And he and I got came to the conclusion that it's dealing with some really

early childhood traumas, which is probably where most, you know, uh,

future problems come from anyway.

And so luckily is as you know, every act poster point has around it,

a whole area where it activates.

And so ear acupuncture is great because it's such a small area that like

everything gets activated really easily.

So a lot of trauma of your past can be touched upon and help you start

to release it because acupuncture is extraordinary for releasing trauma.

It really seems to take people to a unique place deep inside, and something happens.

I think it resets the blueprint.

I, you know, it's interesting to hear you say that I've, I've been a

student of this stuff for 20 years now.

I was curious about it when I first started seeing.

I've got it.

I've got nothing but more curious as time has gone on the more you learn

the less we know, I think, but I, you know, I still have people come

in that go, so what's going on?

Right.

How does this work?

And I still don't have that good of an answer.

Other than at this point, something to the effect of there's

something in you that created.

That knows how to heal you.

And it's sometimes it gets distracted or congested or stuck or frozen, and

acupuncture helps to open that up.

That's that's as close as I can get at this point.

Yeah.

I usually say it resets the blueprint.

And I also say that it gets you back to your original face.

That's a very Dallas term.

Yeah.

So let's go, let's go down that path a little bit.

No.

So often we'll hear about, you know, Chinese medicine comes out of a Dallas

tradition and you know, a lot of us, I think actually me included have no

idea what that really means because I don't have a Dallas background.

It's one of those things.

I hear it.

And I go, well that, you know, that's nice.

That's cool.

It's connected to Dallas and Dallas seems interesting.

Some of the stuff that I've read mostly, I don't understand, but

it's interesting enough stuff.

Um, it's in circles.

If they talk through the circle, it's very poetic, but they talk in circles.

So I, I'm curious to hear, how do I phrase this question?

I mean, can we hear all roots back to Dallas and we're

supposed to take that as well?

That's a good thing.

So we should just, you know, believe whatever, whatever

we're doing, how does it help?

Well, Dallas, some people forget is actually a philosophy, not a religion.

Of course, people try to make lots of philosophies and religions,

but, but I tell people if you're an environmentalist, if you like to go

outside and smell flowers and look at beautiful trees and stare at the

sunlight on the ocean, you're a Dallas.

As far as I'm concerned, it's really being in touch with the natural world.

And I.

Really understand why people make it complicated because it's so simple.

It's just literally being in harmonic frequency with the rest of the

beings on the planet, you know, and, and I think that we get in touch

with ego, you know, and ego says, oh, we're special and different.

And they forget that we're animals that we forget that we actually live and

have to deal with the natural forces.

And the natural forces are so powerful and we think we can conquer them.

What, unfortunately we can't because as you've seen in a lot of.

Uh, natural disasters in the recent years.

And I think the harmonious aspects of, of, um, living well are so health giving

so that if you do live like with the seasons or with the lights, like, you

know, going to sleep early when it's dark outside, it's a really good idea.

You know, all the young things, stuff from Chinese medicine.

So Chinese medicine is clearly.

Very important branches of Dallas philosophy, but so are many other things

that we forget about like funkshway for example, which is also a branch

of Chinese medicine, I might add.

What we're trying to do.

I think in Dallas, remember that we are resonating.

Uh, we have something called consider.

I think it is where we resonate together.

And if we get out of residents, we have disease.

And so that's something that I think most practitioners have to remember.

The more clinical you get, the less in touch you are.

The natural world.

And I'll give you an example.

I had a friend one time, he's an acupuncturist who went to China and

he had a lot of trouble with the food there and with air pollution in Beijing.

And he came back really struggling and he asked me, Lillian, what should I do?

And I gave him a really funny answer, which I still think is funny, but I

looked at him and I thought, oh my goodness, he's really missing lane.

And Ling is of course, The magical aspects of the, of the cosmos.

He just needs to like Phillips up, up with like magic again, you know, basically.

And I said to him, you know, it's really good.

It's getting close to summer.

What I want you to do is go outside and lay on the grass and stare at the clouds.

Y I said, because your lungs are so deficient that you need cloud G.

And I said, I want you to go outside and just like breathe deeply and

stare at the clouds and do it for as long as you can, because as many days

as you can, because it'll heal you.

And he just said, okay, that was really straight.

I said, you're so deficient in laying and laying to me.

Uh, valuable, magical stuff.

And that's why we, we stare at beauty in nature.

So he did it and I saw him the next year he looked fatness was Lillian.

He said, I did it all summaries.

That that was the best thing that I did.

He said, I, I just got back in touch.

You know, he said, he, he, he found himself just expanding.

And I just said, well, it works.

You know, that's why people will go walk on the beach and

why they sit under a tree.

It's like, we forget that this is what we're supposed to be doing.

A fundamental kind of healing and the Japanese do for spading for example, which

is really lean, is such a great character.

It's one of my, that one in 10 are like my favorite, some of my favorites.

They're just, they're so incredible.

And, you know, Ling often translates the spirit, something in or something lively.

Right?

There's a liveliness about it.

Well, I think quantum physics might explain it really well, too, but there

has been it's the particular matter of the universe that kind of sparkles.

That's why it is.

It's what it's very life-giving, you know, so I think people need to

cultivate and you mentioned a connection.

That's how we breathe in lane.

Yeah.

So, so, you know, look, I, I, I work a lot with people.

There's a couple of markings that are really important in terms of,

um, diagnosis that I, I forget to teach sometimes, but they're

really some of my favorites.

And one is right here across the bridge of the nose.

And one is right here across the philtrum.

And the one that we were talking about was breathing.

This is, this is about reading this particular marking.

We'll see both these markings or about the body asking you.

To make T to buffer the use of gin.

It's actually asking you to make more change.

This one says you need to eat in a way that makes more J this one says you

need to breathe in a way that makes more cheap and the way that you eat or

breathe to make more cheese together.

Lang so in the food sense, you're going out there and having like really ripe

tomatoes that are grown in the hot sun.

You're, you're getting a tomato full of Ling, very different than a hot house

tomatoes like styrofoam, you know, Um, so you're, you're getting a Ling.

And so I was taught for example, to eat the sun and breathe the moon.

That's the way I was taught.

Yeah.

So, so you're, you're saying right here on the bridge of the nose between the eyes,

that, that means you need to link up your.

Yeah.

And, and what's happened.

What's important about eating and it's really tricky is people, people get so

obsessing every mental about, and they go, oh, I can only eat this or this or this.

It's like, that's not what this kind of eating is about a line

here or multiple lines here.

Say you have to eat with your body.

So that if you eat it, your body goes, oh, it's like, I

get so excited, expands, right?

There's those there's foods we put in our mouth and we just

go, ah, oh, that's so good.

You know?

And if you don't eat like that and you try to live like this really

rigid way, and you don't love your food, it's just like bad gasoline.

So I give a work when it's not gonna work very well.

So you have, you have a race car engine, you're putting bad gas

things like, uh, not going to work.

So it doesn't matter what it is.

And it just matters.

You follow this kind of way of eating, where you eat, whatever enhances your

bodies, um, she, and you can, and I think the link needs to be there

to transform that she, otherwise I really get this, this, and this is a

question that I, I run into in clinic because you know, I'm an acupuncture.

So people come in and they think they're supposed to be on some

kind of a strict diet, you know?

And they'll tell me what they're eating.

Right.

And sometimes it's, it's really not helpful for them,

but they think it's helpful.

Yeah.

Th th the mind over overtakes the bodies knowing, but it

raises the question for me.

Cause I get it.

The hothouse tomato is a completely different creature than the one

that just came out of your garden and still, you know, it's just,

it's still warm from the sun.

These have fundamentally different characters to them and in our body

will react to them and go, ah, And for the stuff that's good.

And we know it's good grass fed beef.

Right.

You know, we can, I think we can get that.

But what about the people whose systems are, I'm going

to say deranged a bit, right?

Maybe they're really addicted to sugar and they love brownies and they're

not the kind of person who goes.

I eat a brownie and I feel awful afterwards.

I shouldn't eat it.

They go, I eat a brownie and it's the best thing in the world.

And it might be, but they shouldn't eat like 25 of them, because what

happens is when you're satisfying, this particular craving a little bit is enough.

And when you, when you need something like you really crave it and you

eat too much of it and you do feel kind of sick after so many brownies,

then you're actually feeding a need.

And this really different, um, feelings that the body has about.

Two ways of eating and yes, people get very off balance and they crave

things that are really bad for them.

Um, or just that they didn't have any bad to begin with.

They're bad because they do so much of them.

It's just an access.

Um, I find that I have to steer them towards things that are

in the more natural forms.

So for example, I had one woman who came to see me, who's really,

um, doing way too much sugar and.

I think she was healing a broken heart.

That's very, that very often happens with sugar because

it, it, it suits you in a way.

And she was eating lots and lots and lots of ice cream, which also,

you know, in Chinese medicine is not so good because it's so cold.

And so I tried to steer her towards things that had that similar mouthfeel that

were just a healthier version of that.

Do you know?

And, and so you go to yogurt instead of ice cream, or, you know, you,

you, you steer people towards.

Filling that need a little bit, so you don't take it away, but you also

steer them towards things where their body kind of goes, oh, I was so good.

And she got really into Greek yogurt.

So that was great.

I think it's really helpful to have just have this idea that there are things and

a small amount might be really helpful and it's not wrong for us to want it.

It's not wrong for us to do it.

You know, so often with, with diets, especially here in America,

it's like, you're, you're doing it or you're not doing it.

Right or you're cheating.

I mean, sheeting is such a funny word with diet.

It's like cheating implies you get away with something.

Of course you don't get away with anything.

It's not cheating.

It's just a choice.

Who are you?

Who are you cheating on?

Who's who's that person that you're actually trying to please.

And that's often society too.

And I, I am a really strong believer in eating a large variety of foods.

We're gifted with so many wonderful foods in the world.

It's like, people get really stuck, you know, I do a lot of official,

um, kind of counseling just because I help people figure out what they want.

Now.

I don't tell them what to eat.

I help them figure out their own desires, which is great.

And when people eat like this, it makes a really big difference.

And I find it really helpful.

And I think if you don't love it, it's not going to transform properly.

And so it's kind of like, you know, if you think about Dallas alchemy,

if you're going to do alchemy, you've got to have some fire.

So there's no joy in the food.

I don't know what's going to happen.

But it's not gonna, I don't think it's going transform it completely nourished.

No.

And then was the other one with the breathing?

That's a little more complicated to explain because this marking

says that you're not breathing deeply enough to get to a place

where you don't have to breathe.

So, what you're trying to do is release through the out-breath as

much as you can breathe in as much as you can, so that your lungs are so

full, that you can stop for a moment and be in that space between breaths.

That's so magical that anything's possible, and you transcend kind of

the laws of time and space and you get into that zone or that flow state

or whatever you want to call it.

And it's so magical that most people are.

We're paying attention to their breath, which is so often we don't.

Right or meditating.

Yeah.

And that meditating and creativity gets us into this place where

breath transforms the chain.

I think if you don't get to that place, you don't really

transform the breath very well.

Pretty much everything follows the tree.

Yeah.

And I think it's so important because.

Especially in the Western world, don't know how to manage their gene very well.

They're not very cautious and careful about maintaining this constitutional, you

know, um, gift that we have of our body.

And, and we also should be too body focused sometimes too.

And we forget how to nourish it in the ways that are the most Dallas, which,

which is even sounded briefing room.

We heard a lot about Ching in Chinese medicine.

Again, I've been a student of this for 20 years.

Sometimes I think about things like Jean, she and Shawn and I,

and I, when I mostly come up with is, I don't know a lot about them.

I mean, in some ways there's still, there's still very mysterious in some

ways, because, you know, we've got our Western ideas of looking at it.

I don't know if many of us have had an opportunity to go

very deep on the Chinese side.

So again, given the family tradition that you've come from.

Curious to hear from you some ways that you think about nourishing, replenishing,

cherishing, looking after the.

Well, I spend a lot of time teaching.

Um, acupuncturists about DJing is just one of them.

And one of my missions, I suppose I was taught about it at a very young age.

I was told my grandmother when I was quite little, that it was too bad.

I didn't have more gene.

Uh, Physically strong.

Um, I got sick a lot and, but I have a really strong spirit.

It just makes up for it, I guess.

But I was told to manage my DJing very carefully because I wasn't

going to live a really long life.

And I'd love to do if I didn't manage that gene.

So I was, I was lectured frequently.

My grandmother fed me in a way to enhance my, and, and I, you know, I

think DJing is taught hugely in the very first year of acupuncture school

briefly, but it's so much more than this.

And the way that I understand Jane is it's all that you inherit from your ancestors,

this physical body, all the abilities and the talents of expression in this world.

A lot, lot of karma by the way, too, unless it's from the family,

ancestral memory, things like that.

So everything we come in with, and it's not as finite as we're taught

in the Western world, in my opinion, um, we're taught you have all this.

Present when you're born and you reload it all your life and

when you use it up, you're dead.

Well, that's not actually true.

We do have the gene for this lifetime.

That's true, but it's kind of tucked away and we have to access it.

And often we don't know how to access all of it.

And some of it, for example, in the forehead here, it's not the four

it's called the sea of young, but this is actually inherited talents.

And if you have talents that you are not using your, you

have genius locked lockdown.

And so I try to get people in touch with their talents and

abilities because that's extra gym.

They can use if you've been overworking or overexercising

whatever, and you, and you're losing gene, you have more genes to go get.

So if you use other talents that you haven't used yet, that gene comes

pouring in and you've got more to access.

And then the other part of it is, and this is the mysterious part, not in Chinese

medicine, but in Dallas, they believe that with spiritual practice you can make.

More Jean Chinese medicine says what you got is all you have.

And when it's over, it's over, which I qualify that too, because often

people with cancer lose access to their DJing, but they have lots leftover when

they die, which makes me really sad.

So I think.

Work with cancer patients to access their talents.

I found that if people live like they're going to die, they don't die.

So they do all the things they always wanted to do and they don't die.

So it's cool.

But I also believe, and I don't know that much about this yet.

I'm working on it.

I believe that it's possible to make gene.

If you get past the duality of this world and get to the

place of oneness on the case.

Through a spiritual practice, you bring back something and maybe

it's a condensed form of Ling.

I don't really know what it is.

All I know is that people can rejuvenate in spiritual practice.

I've seen it.

It's happened to me a couple of times, but I, I don't know

anything more about it than that.

I try to talk about it, but it's some serious.

Yeah.

And I mean, there are, there's many things that are mysterious

in this life, you know, including.

That I can punch her, actually works.

It does.

And, and for all, you know, you may be a conduit for link.

Think about that, that the vibrational medicine as medicine aspect of, of

acupuncture may be really channeling link.

Well, I, in this conversation today, you've got me thinking

about linking a whole.

Other contexts.

And I usually think about Ling.

So thank you.

I appreciate that.

I've got to, I want to go back to DJing for just a second.

Cause you were talking about that.

We sometimes have the.

Um, abilities, characteristics, talents, talents.

That's great word talents.

And they're connected to our gym, but we've locked them away.

So we actually don't have access to that chain thing because, because

we're not manifesting that talent.

And I've also heard it sad that if you've got something in you, something

creative, let's call it a talent, something, something for you to

put out into the world, your gift.

Basically, if you bring it out, It will give you your life.

If you don't bring it out, it will actually turn to poison and make you sick.

Absolutely.

And I, uh, this is what I w my work on the golden path.

And this is what I spend most of my time doing a personal consultation is helping

people figure out what their gifts are and how they can bring them into the world.

This is what I care about the most, because I find that people

are so focused on making a living, which I don't really understand.

I mean, look, we all need to make a living.

I get that.

I mean, maybe my practicals don't say yes, of course you have to

make a living, but we focus on.

To the exclusion of other things that make us so happy.

And I say to people, if you love playing the guitar, if you love to write, if

you love to paint or DuPont make pottery or whatever, it actually gives you

so much shame that it makes sometimes the things that we don't like to do so

much better, because we're doing things that we do like, and your fi this is

my opinion, but I think that doing our talents and abilities is a variation of.

Doing without doing, because it comes so easily and naturally that

it doesn't take effort to do it.

And if you don't do it, it makes you unhappy.

Um, I mean, to give you an example, I have in the past traveled a lot.

I'm not traveling as much anymore, but my biggest problem with traveling

wasn't really that I don't like airplanes very much, but I, I, I get

tired and all that, but my biggest problem was I didn't have, um, kitchens.

And so when Airbnbs came around and I could get like a place to cook in,

I was a lot happier because I like to cook and cooking is a talent I have.

And if I don't cook, I'm just not happy.

And I like my own food.

I know how to nourish my, you know, my, my, um, my tea that way.

And so I, I need to cook and I cook.

Tired because it makes me not tired.

I cook what I'm happy.

Cause it makes me happier.

I mean, it doesn't take any effort for me to cook.

It takes effort for me to go on a big walk or something or a hike,

but it doesn't take any cook.

I can dance actually too, because I like to dance.

So hiking doesn't replenish your DJing, but cooking down.

Nobody.

I, I make jokes about this, but I actually, I, I like to

exercise my absence someplace.

Beautiful.

And I feel like walking around.

I do so, no, I, I watching the Olympics and I love watching, you know, peak

performances, but oh, it's so beyond my understanding of how the body works.

I don't have that kind of body yet.

It does I can cook.

Well, I told one of my students, I have a superpower I could stand

for long periods of time, which is really good for teaching.

Really good.

There you go.

Yeah.

Well, you know, I'm thinking, I mean, often I have patients and

they let's just say they've got the, the long forehead zone, right?

They're the ones who are thinking all the time.

And I'll sometimes suggest to them, well, if you want to get some practice

with not thinking meditation is helpful for that, because it's the practice of

catching a thought and just letting it go catching a thought and just letting it go.

And it, it, it can, it can help to slow, you know, slow it down.

And, you know, when you practice that and I'm hearing you talk about Ling and in

all way, and for those practices that.

Are simply doing without doing.

It's a lot of like meditation and doing nothing.

It is.

And actually there's many types of meditation.

And I find, for example, people who are very Woody need to do a moving

meditation, not my idea of a good time, but I, you know, that's why if

they, if they hike in a way where they actually like, you know, look, you know,

and, and, and be there, that's great.

And you know, some people need to be together when they're in a meditation.

It really depends on what kind of person you are.

But I think meditation is so crucial because of that line, um, that

often shows up in the philtrum.

And I have to say that, um, we don't do enough at the time.

We need to do nothing more.

We need to be more.

And so that's one of the things I encourage people as well.

I think that's what that line also means.

Like you've got to be, instead of do.

And so I encourage a lot of beings and these lines change, they can kind of go.

So I, I recently.

Uh, did an interview with CT Homan, which will air in a week or two after this one.

So it comes in a little bit and a fascinating conversation.

Great guy, really fun.

And one of the things that he says was really helpful about learning

facial diagnosis is that when you're, especially when you're working as

an acupuncturist, you can see the effect that your treatment is.

Yeah, it's extraordinary.

It's, it's so wonderful.

You know, when I first started doing face reading, I wanted to find a way

to make sure I was doing a good job.

And when you're transforming someone's life, life often,

they're going to be uncomfortable.

Change is uncomfortable.

You know, translations is uncomfortable and sometimes difficult and people

would say, oh, I've got a headache.

I go, oh, I'm so sorry.

And then I went, wait a minute.

That headaches good for them.

They need to process the stuff that's rising.

So I had to find a way to.

I started paying attention to the ShaoYin and if their shin came in a certain

way and their skin was clear, lighter, brighter, whatever it was, where they

left, I knew that I'd done a good job, and that was really helpful for me

because I can say, oh, I have a headache.

And I go, oh, good.

You're stuck.

She is moving, you know, go get a treatment, you know?

And the same thing occurs for, uh, practitioners of all kinds,

especially acupuncturists.

If you know that something's having in effect, it actually encourages you.

It actually, yeah.

You know, I picked the right points and, and I also encourage people to

use a lot more of your intuition when it comes to picking points, because

sometimes the points pick you, I think.

And so watching the face shows exactly how will the organ that you're targeting is.

So you can actually see, for example, someone transforming, um, CT, you know,

having been a longtime student of mine and I were in Rothenburg Germany, the

TCM Congress last year, we were doing a talk on the heart and cardiology

and facial diagnosis and treatment.

And we actually decided to do, um, some bleeding.

Because we had a person there who had a very congested heart.

She had a very purple-ish, uh, end of her nose and that's blood stagnation.

It's very, very easy to see.

And it's one of the times when, if someone can't believe they can take

aspirin because aspirin causes stomach bleeding or they can go donate blood

because that clears out the thick blood and brings in new clean blood.

CTE is very good at bleeding, so bleeding, um, demonstration.

And you could literally see not only the nose going from like this darkest

purple color to a really normal pink nose to also seeing the blood

come out very thick and dark, almost black, going to clear a new red blood.

And it was.

It was so wonderful because it's, it's, it's right there for you to see that the

face shows you transformations occurring.

It's wonderful.

The nose on your face.

It is.

And that happens with any organ.

And I, you know, I've.

I've done this for so many years now that in practice that I've

seen lots of transformations.

And one of things I wanted to mention is people can lose wrinkles very fast as

well, and they can also believe it or not.

Um, modify features slightly within a fairly short period of time.

We're actually very more fumble.

And I think that we're actually holographic.

So the faces were changeable to people.

I've lost a lot of wrinkles personally.

Okay.

So I suspect that could be like a different story.

Three-day class, that's a different topic, but, but because you bring

it up, I just can't let it go.

How does that happen?

What can you give us just a quick intro to.

How that happens.

And then there's also kind of a followup for what we were just talking about.

Are there a couple of few zones on the face or a few things to

pay attention to Oregon wise?

So an acupuncturist who's listening to the show right now can go

into their clinic and it's like, yeah, I'm working the liver.

And let me, let me see what I can see on the face for the liver.

You can give us a couple of pointers.

This should be fabulous.

Let me start there and move backwards.

Perfect.

So in terms of looking at features, there are five vital

features that correspond to each.

And those show the constitution of that organ.

So for example, if you want to know how the liver is doing, um, you look

at the eyebrows and you can look at my eyebrows, you can see them.

Nobody else can, but, but they're not very big.

This is why I don't hike.

Okay.

They're not eyebrows that are meant to be physically strenuous,

um, activities in my life.

And that's something that I need to, I need to be very aware of.

I tried it doesn't work, you know, I just don't have a liver strength.

Um, you look at a different feature.

For example, my nose is fairly long.

I've got strengthened in my lungs, which is why I can talk for hours and

hours and hours and hours, which I do.

I talk for days and you can look at the strength of the little stomach,

you know, in terms of the mouth.

And so there's all these features that correspond and right away, you

can tell the constitution someone's really strong in this because this

feature is big, but there's also areas that face the correspond to

the diagnostic aspects of each organ.

To give you a couple of really simple ones.

What are the issues I'm having recently with my mother is that she's older.

And she obviously, and she's on lots of medication.

And I had to work with the doctor to lower her doses low because she is Chinese.

And also because it was causing a lot of problems for her and

her eyebrows start to fall out.

She has very bad.

Ah, oh, big eyebrows falling out.

That's a problem.

It is the liver is getting weaker and she was on too many

medications cause she had a stroke.

And for example, the one we took off with statins because she

didn't have cholesterol and they were giving it to her anyway.

And it was just, it was too many, too many medications.

So her eyebrows got better after she got off the statin.

So I knew right away that that had transformed.

So you can see that and people who were herbologists, um,

verbalize, I should say often.

Don't check the eyebrows, see how else people handle herbs.

So for example, my eyebrows aren't big enough to do a

LAR a large amount of herbs.

I don't really like them.

If they're food-based I'm okay.

I can do go-to berries.

I put them like in, you know, cereal or something.

I'm fine.

But in terms of like a big pot of herbs, the stove, it's like

there's too many of them too much.

And so it's because I have really small eyebrows.

So if someone has big eyebrows, They can even handle chemotherapy, honestly.

I mean, it's not, it's not as dangerous for them.

So that's one of the ways you can tell if you should do that kind of

treatment or not, do you know what you can handle or not because your eyebrows

tell you how your liver is doing.

So, you know, I, I look at things like the liver a lot and in between the eyebrows

also shows really well as to the temples in terms of things like, you know,

depression, but for practitioners, my biggest thing right now is the kidneys.

I think we're overusing your kidneys.

This goes back to the idea of not being.

Underneath the eyes.

So the whole ice sockets, the kidneys, and it's really easy to see when

someone hasn't got enough sleep, what's really interesting is you can sleep

and still not recover your kidneys.

It helps when your helps, but there's still something that

says often I get eight hours.

I'm not, I'm still got dark circles.

Maybe you're doing too much this other way.

And I watch this area really, really strongly in most of my clients.

It's like the ocean of the body, the kidneys, like the ocean.

And it's like a tide tie that goes in and tied that goes out, you

know, and when you're hollow and when you're dark here, the tide's

out and hasn't come back in yet.

There's not enough water to bring the tide back in yet.

So basically a drought conditions.

So I work with people.

A lot.

Most of my clients have to the deficiency most, and that's

usually lifestyle oriented.

And the biggest aspect of lifestyle is actually not sleep.

It's really.

And the biggest thing about, um, ingestion of water is not water it's soup.

So I made people make soup, lots and lots and lots of soup.

I do recommend bone bras.

I think it's the number one recipes on my food blog.

People take the Chinese soups that I put on there and I make them, I make

that because bone broth is essential for the kidneys, just full of minerals.

And if you're a vegetarian, I even have a vegetarian bone broth, which

is stretchables for bone growth, but you use all these root vegetables

and you leave the peels on.

Then you make this extraordinary.

And it's so good for your kidneys.

I'm really struck with what you just said.

That sleep is not rest, no stream too much.

It's really powerful.

Yeah.

It's really, um, it goes back to doing nothing more often.

Yeah.

I'm thinking about the patients.

I see.

Yeah.

I'm thinking about my own life for that matter rest.

I mean, I know that if I want to be really active, I mean, getting enough sleep.

Yes, obviously, but having some time in the day for rest is crucial.

If I want to be active, rest is essential to build that activity on and it does

help the kidneys if you lay down because the kidneys are holding up the head

and the head is really, really heavy.

So kidneys like to lay down.

Lay on the sofa, read a book, lay on the beach.

I mean, lay down, lay in the bed and just think, I mean it's okay.

Don't think too much, but a little, but laying down is really big thing.

Kidneys too.

Okay.

So let me, how do I phrase this?

So if I'm treating somebody in the clinic and I'm concerned about your kidneys

and I'm looking at this area underneath the eyes, if I'm getting somewhere,

if my needles are having an effect.

I would probably see something happen there is that correct?

Absolutely.

And I, I teach a lot of students that we actually, um, in my master facing

program, have people come in and we're strangers to be read in an hour

session at the end of each module.

And at the end of the gym module, almost always, we see, after

someone has done an hour of counseling, The kidneys get better.

Just the idea of not doing as much.

Sometimes it makes a difference.

It's very, it's very unusual.

And with acupuncture because I did clinic visits, some of my long-term students,

you can see after treatment, how well the kidneys respond to acupuncture.

It's wondering.

Especially that some of the extraordinary Meridian points in the, in the wrench

channel, I can hardly wait to get back in clinic and start, start

watching, have a little closer look.

And I hope that everyone listening here today will, uh,

take this as an opportunity.

Just have another glance, have another look at things.

Lillian.

If, if people would like more information about what you're up

to, how did they get in touch with.

Well, my website is Lotus institute.com and they're welcome to come to

the website and we have all the programs that are listed there and

consultations that you can book.

If you'd like, and I love to teach, I teach a lot of conferences still.

I try to condense them into one time when I want to several times a year, I travel.

I do all those things at once, but I do travel around and this year

I'll be more in the U S than usual.

I think I'm doing a conference in M D.

I'm doing, let's see what you're doing.

I'm doing a talk in New York and I'm doing a talk in, um, Florida

and just several places I'm going.

All right.

I'll be sure to put that on the show notes page, if there's, if there's

anything else that you'd like to share with our listeners here, any handouts or.

Articles, anything that that might help people get a little more information

and help them in their practice.

You can send that to me as well.

And, okay, great.

I like to, I do recommend the book.

What I'll send you is that the map of the organs that shows it's actually not

in my book, I made it after the book was published strangely the second time.

So I will send you the Oregon maps on it shows by color-coded all the different

organs and how they relate to that.

That would be so helpful.

That's great.

Anything else that you'd like to share with us before we say goodbye?

Um, I would actually like to say that people need to remember that they know

so much about themselves and they, we often will go to experts to help us

remember who we actually really are.

And the best doctor is actually yourself with the help of someone else who

could help you become more yourself.

That's my, that's my theory.

I love it.

Thank you so much.

Make it the time today.