Impact goes on the road to Chicago to talk with self-advocate, activist, and writer T.J. Gordon, who created a story map to highlight people with disabilities living in different neighborhoods of Chicago. T.J. introduces us to Jaime Cornejo, a fellow activist and a participant in Gordon's storytelling project.

• See T.J.'s article here
• Subscribe to Impact https://ici.umn.edu/products/impact/subscribe 

- Welcome to Impact the

Conversation, a podcast

of the University of Minnesota's

Institute on community

integration that brings you strategies

and stories advancing

the inclusion of people

with disabilities.

Our guests are the authors of Impact,

our long running magazine

that bridges the research

to practice gap with professional

and personal reflections on

what matters most in

disability equity today.

I'm your host, Janet Stewart.

- Hello and welcome to

Impact the Conversation.

I'm here today with TJ

Gordon from the University

of Illinois at Chicago.

tj, it's great to have you here.

- It's a pleasure to

be here as well. Janet,

- Can you just tell me a

little bit about who you are?

- I'm currently a research associate

at the Institute on Disability

at Human Development at the

University of Illinois at Chicago or UIC.

What I do as a research associate,

I usually assist in

projects and research

related to disability,

especially bringing in

participants of color.

I also sometimes help with

creating presentations

and webinars about the

intersections of disability

and race, as well as

we have also done a lot

of educational work on

promoting awareness of

COVID-19 and COVID-19 vaccination.

- That's awesome. And so

can we describe a little bit

about this building?

We're sitting here in a room

that looks like it used

to be a hospital room.

Did this, did this used to, did this used

to be the UIC medical center?

- Actually, yes.

It's, it was a, it's

still a medical center,

but in particular this a

building that we in right now.

It used to be a hospital for patients

with mental health

conditions, so that it used

to be an institution,

and it's ironic that we have office space

and a former institution.

- Exactly. That's what,

that's what I was getting to.

Like how do you feel about that?

Is it kind of a good feeling

to be doing some good work on this

after what, you know, with

what you know about our history

with institutions?

- Oh, yeah. I, it's

kind of a mixed feeling

because of course you

get to see the history

of what people like myself went through

more than likely 50 years ago or over.

And I could still see like relics

and vestiges of what happened, even with,

there's still showers in some places,

or it used to be showers

or the kitchenette even,

or even the layout of the room that used

to be actual hospital beds.

So it's somber to be reminded of

where people like myself

came from who have

invisible disabilities.

I like to call them, but at the same time,

I am also honored to be working

with the Institute on

Disability Human Development,

especially at a place that

used to be an institution,

but now we reclaiming it

as a place where we want

to get people out in the community.

So it's interesting that

we turn this into a,

an advocacy center, a

research center to help

people with disabilities be out and about

and productive in the community

as opposed to being locked up.

- Exactly. And,

and so speaking of advocacy,

I know you were a, you are

or were a SAR TAC fellow.

Can you explain a little

bit about what SAR TAC is

and then about the fellowship?

- Yeah, so SAR TAC is actually under,

under this organization

called Self, Self-Advocate.

Self-Advocates be Empowered

or Save, which is a national

organization of self-advocates.

And SAR tech is the technical wing

of save where we, people could get a lot

of plain language information about

what's going on in advocacy now,

and also if they need

to know of let's say,

intersectionality, how to

advocate for others in yourself

and even a sexuality topics.

- And you did a SART tech fellow,

you were a SART tech fellow in what year?

- 20 20 20 20 21. Yes.

- Gotcha. And tell me a

little bit about that.

What, what was, what was

that fellowship all about?

- So if you were a fellow, you work with

someone within the nonprofit

or organization you work with.

And so at the time I worked with

Advance Your Youth

Leadership Power, which is a

racial justice group within Access Living.

I worked with the call the

organizer of that group,

Candace Coleman on the

disabled YIM project.

- And how did you, how did, how

did Disabled I am even start

who, who was that a

project Candace started,

- I would say the project

that we started alongside

with Candace, it started out

with the work we are already

doing about addressing the

police brutality among

people with disabilities

of color.

Especially we addressing how

in the media we hear

about the violence, we get

to hear about the families.

We get to definitely witness the race

of most of the victims

affected by police violence,

but we never get to hear their

story about the disability.

Especially in some reports

like the Rudiment report,

one third to a half

of police violence stories

in the news involves people

with disabilities.

And I'm not surprised

that number is higher

along people of color.

I'm not surprised.

- So when did disabled I am

begin, was there a certain case

of injustice that really spurred it

or when, when did it get started?

- I wanna say we got

started in 20 19, 20 20,

but I think it is in

conjunction of responding

to the police violence.

We also wanted to answer the questions of

who really knows about

disability in our communities

and what, how do people define disability?

Knowing that just like

disability within itself is a

spectrum, so as disability identity.

So we decided

to start this a YM as a

photo project where people such as

Justin Cooper was able to take pictures of

the self-advocates

and the staff in the

assets living building

and held up a white frame

at which at the bottom it

said, hashtag this able, I am.

That moment I was, I wasn't

there in the building,

but I saw the pictures regardless.

I think it was a probable

statement to say, this is

who I am, I'm disabled,

this is my identity.

And I carried the badge of honor.

I wanted to help expand it personally.

And while we couldn't do

as many in-person pictures

due to the pandemic,

we're still able to do a few in Chicago.

But when we did the SART

tech fellowship aspect of it

with, it was myself who led the charge.

And also Brittany King,

which she is also a part

of a YLP

and another group

of assets living called the

Empower Fifi, specifically

for disabled women.

Yes. So we work together in

taking pictures and collective

and stories of disabled people,

not only in Chicago,

but it ended up being people

who submitted from

outta state and even one

or two from of the states.

- So how many pictures did you collect?

- We took about, we ended

up collecting about 20

to 30 total between 2019 and 2021.

- And, and from all over.

- Yes.

- Wow. And in the beginning,

w were you going to out to

try to find people of color

or did that come later?

Was that what, was the

intersection of race

involved from the start,

or was that something that came on later?

- I think we intentionally

and nationally happened to

focus on intersectionality early on,

and we especially highlighted

the intersectionality

and the, what we call phase

one, where we went out

and took pictures in the

different neighborhoods

and also collected stories online as well.

We noticed not only intersectionality

of race and disability

and so, but also gender as well.

And to see the many different definitions

of disability from out there

based on their own experiences

as how,

however they identify themselves

as a president in general.

- And you, you said it yourself, you,

you focused on neighborhoods,

and I wanna get into that as well

- Based too. Yes.

- Yeah. You know, Chicago

is a city of neighborhoods.

It's known as that.

And, and neighborhoods are

important here in a way.

They aren't in a lot of other cities.

It's, they're important politically.

And you had this great idea

for capitalizing on this.

So can you talk a little

bit about the neighborhood

and how that intersects with,

with race and disability? Oh,

- Absolutely.

So they also get us to

phase two of the project

where we work with not only

assets living, but also there.

It's another sub program, which is,

it's going go out to decal decal

Disability, disability culture, arts

lab, using arts

to express the disability

issues that we face.

And we have staff

and students from the school

of the Art Institute in Chicago

collaborate with us as well.

And I glad

that you mentioned about

the neighborhood Chicago,

because I feel, you know, the wards

that we call also those

neighborhoods, Chicago,

are very important

because of course it holds

a lot of political power.

It determines how to neighborhood look,

especially for income.

But I also feel if you want

to make an inclusive ward a

neighborhood, you also have

to include people with disabilities,

which some places are very inclusive,

and others either they

don't think about it

or they see disability as

a thing they don't want

to talk about, which

reflects the accessibility

and inclusion in each area.

And I liked how we

created a story map where

not only get to highlight the things

that disabled people do

in the neighborhoods,

but also it gives community

stakeholders the chance

to connect with them,

to address anything disability

related in the neighborhoods.

- So what did you actually do

with the students from the Art Institute?

What was the collaboration there?

What did you make, when you

say a story map, what is

- That?

Yes, it was a, a actual story map.

So let's take similar

to Geo or something

where you're basically

attaching a object to a map.

In our case, we attached the profile

and series of people who

submitted the photos, information

to the neighborhoods they're in.

And then from there, people could find,

let's say if they wanna learn more about

disability topics in let's say

the South shore area,

they could look at, oh,

there's somebody with a

disability I could reach out to.

And that will also mean

either there'll be more disabled

people that will come out

as they was to discuss that

issues or just connect,

or that'd be also a time for a Ottoman

and our mayor to also connect

with the disability

communities in each ward.

Also, to ensure that each ward

is the only accessible from the business

and practical standpoint,

but also inclusive as well to all parts

of life and all parts of Chicago. Oh,

- That's fantastic.

And so what kind of feedback have you

gotten so far on all this?

You have about a dozen

stories up and mapped, is that

- Correct? Yes.

- And is, is it your

hope that it then grows

and other people will contribute stories,

or how is that gonna work?

- My, my personal hope is

so more people see the map,

but more people will

like to add to the map.

And who knows, you may see a version

of this every I am in other cities within

the US or even throughout the world.

- And what, what really struck

me about the Disabled I Am

campaign, it really hits at,

at really evolution

from disability rights.

Now we have alongside that

disability justice. Yeah.

So what is the difference to you?

What, what, what does

justice do that, you know,

we've had disability rights

and we've fought very hard

battles for those rights

and a lot in the legal system

and, you know, fighting on the

front lines of capital steps

and, and various kinds of legislation.

Justice seems a little more personal,

and this project really

kind of captures that.

What, what does it mean to you?

- I feel like with

disability rights is more

so I'll use the amusement park,

or my favorite analogy, the

football stadium, for instance,

soldier Field disability

rights will be making sure

that, you know, people with

disabilities could get in

to the stadium as carefully as possible.

And also they're able to see the game

or have access to bathrooms

without needing little

to no as assistance at all.

It's more the, like you mentioned,

alluded that you alluded

to afford the legal side

and the construction side

of accessibility.

Disability justice is deeper

because it's all about

treating the person fairly

and meeting where people are at.

So I'll also

use the soldier field example.

So if you wanna talk

about disability justice,

it's not only getting

me into Soldier Field

to watch the game in a accessible manner.

It is also making sure

I feel right at home.

I feel included. I feel a part of

the Chicago Bears family as a fan,

I feel disability justice is all about

treating a person equitably

and fairly as opposed to just

helping somebody get into the door,

which is disability rights.

- Where does color and

race come into it for you?

Because you've, you've

probably faced discrimination

as, you know, as a person

with an invisible disability.

You've probably faced

discrimination as a black man

- All the time.

- H how, how do you even process that?

Because you don't sort of say,

oh, this little action was

because I'm disabled,

this little action was

because I am black.

It it, you don't seg you don't

separate that out, do you?

- I do not. It's double

causes kute consciousness

that darn Debbie Eby DUIs

or multiple consciousness

I like to call it,

where I feel my identities

play a role in some type of

way, or they may come together

and I feel, I feel more marked personally

because I am an African American male.

I'm autistic that cause

with stigmas with itself.

I'm also a father to a

4-year-old, which caused me a lot

of stigma within the black community.

And I'm also, I have two masters,

so education, you know,

there's stigmas from all sides.

So I feel Davy Doda don't type

of thing sometimes where it's like,

- And when you say, when you

say a stigma as a parent,

you mean the, the because of your race or?

- Yeah, because of my race.

Usually they think of

black dads as deadbeats

or unavailable.

So I fighting that stereotype, it's always

because I have so many

marginalized identities, I had to

fight hard to prove to people

that I am exist, well alone, I'm worthy.

But also the intersectionality

plays in perfectly

because I could reach

out to people who deal

with similar struggles with autism.

Those, you know,

what the black men are

facing, what fathers,

especially disabled

fathers are going through

disabled educators.

I can relate to them.

So I think intersectionality

could be the place,

it's a place for me

where I could reach out

to many people at lady levels, even though

what I could face is hard

for many people to imagine,

especially if, especially since what I go

through is a lot of layers.

- And we're sitting here in

this building that, you know,

used to be an institution.

Right. We certainly come a

a good distance from that.

Do you feel hopeful

about the work that you

and others are doing?

Or is there, you know, a lot

of folks have felt since

covid a a backlash?

You know, we had George Floyd,

we had a lot of, we had a lot

of situations during Covid

where people of color,

people with disabilities felt

like they were at the back

of the line to get good

healthcare once again.

Oh yes. So where,

where do you feel we are right

now in terms of progress?

- Can we, we call it progress

or is it more like a circle continuum

where throughout history we have,

there's hope we back to

square one, there's hope,

we battle square one, we

could go back to as far

as civil rights and disability

rights and the aftermath.

We had years of, you know, there's hope.

Then things are taken away at challenge.

We fight again the same

pattern over and and over.

And I think right now we

at the point where the,

the civil ra, the civil racial unrest

that took place in 2020

because of George Floyd, other

instances of police violence

as well as how covid

affected the marginalized

community be at the moment of,

here we go again, we gotta

keep fighting to exist

and to be free.

This world is going to be prejudiced

until, you know, the end of time.

I don't know. But I just feel

like if we just keep getting

into fights and remind people

that the world could be great,

if we not only come

together but work together

and realize we here

for the similar things,

then maybe we don't have,

we might not see the continuums as much.

We might have the peaceful

world that we want.

- After visiting TJ

and his office at UIC, we

got a chance to get out

to a couple of the neighborhoods

where disabled I Am participants live.

We talked with them about the project

and about other aspects

of disability justice

that play a role in their lives.

One of the conversations

was with Jaime Cornejo,

who lives in the Woodlawn

neighborhood of Chicago,

not far from President Obama's

home in Hyde Park on the

city's south side.

- Tj, would you introduce me to Jay

and tell me a little about

how you two got to know each other?

- Sure. So Jay, this is Jaime Cornell,

also known as Jay.

We met through a mutual friend

and both worked at Assets

Living at the time.

And I was volunteer 2015.

So we advocated together on

keeping special education open

in Chicago public schools,

and then they grown to advocating

against police violence.

So we went back to A YLP, which is

an advance your leadership power,

and which is across disability group

of mainly mainly people of color,

but it also welcomes

white disabled advocates.

As long as you're part of

the, the same, you know,

you wanna be part of the same mission.

And that didn't change until,

2016, where we opened it up

for adults, just adults period.

Originally we were

advanced youth leadership

power where the age range was from

16 to 30.

So I was in my late

twenties when I joined.

But then the people who

aged out want to continue

with the advocacy.

So we pretty much the same group,

but our focus as

advance your leadership power

is the cross disability

racial justice component

where we not only focus on

disability rights, but also

because a lot of the stuff

that we advocated for tied

so much to race, it was appropriate

to add the disability

justice in particular race

or disability justice

component into our group. Why

- Did that all come

together, do you think?

TJ and I were just talking about this,

but for you, where, where does race

and disability intersect for you?

- Well, really my whole

life as a brown kind

of other South American US born,

you know, I guess you could say straight,

I'm straight gender non-conforming.

No, I know I'm straight,

but I know I've learned

to be gender nonconforming

and okay with that in terms of roles.

But for me and the racial

component, the ethnic

and racial component came into play

when, I mean, just the fact

that in spaces that I've been,

I've been criticized for

speaking a certain way

or for being a brown kid

that spoke only English

until I was nine years old,

where I had to learn Spanish

to survive, but not when I left Chicago.

But the racial component

for a YP in particular in Chicago came

because a lot of the incidents of violence

and police, you know, black

and brown youth in Chicago have been,

and across the country

really have been affected

disproportionately in terms

of when there's mental health crises,

when there's a domestic violence dispute.

And in particular black

and brown men kid, both TJ

and I in different contexts,

we've been assaulted,

we've been harassed in

the city of Chicago just

for looking like this.

Yes. Like just for being who

we authentically wanna be.

And nobody sees the education

and the blood, sweat

and tears that we put into,

you know, just kind of this

notion of the American dream,

which is obviously not true.

It's a nightmare.

So the notion of like, I

guess this whole idea around

our kind of us becoming

more of a educational

youth rights, students

with disabilities in Chicago

public schools kind of

focus in a YLP from the

racial justice component was

the key turning point.

- TJ was telling me a little

about the disabled I am

what the, the frame, Um-Huh?

Project Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Can can you walk me

through what that was, what

that was about and, and how,

how that felt to be part of it?

- It was, it was fun actually.

It was pre and post pandemic.

TJ and UIC have been really

instrumental in partnering with,

you know, the disability cause.

And it started just highlighting stories,

highlighting stories of real

people, black and brown folks,

and some white people that were

also a part of the campaign.

It was just highlighting their

stories and who they were

and kind of like summarizing who they were

so people can get to know them.

And, and, you know, I like

to say I'm the grandfather

of the group, or me

and Curtis, but TJ here

and a few other people are more, more

so social media friendly.

So he kind of used that

platform to show us on Facebook

and show us on Instagram and, and

although it, it is a

vehicle that can help,

I still feel like it's still mainstream.

So the hard part is to say like, hey, like

where do we find disabled

folks that are not crowded

and that need help and that need a hand

That's been a little hard since 2020.

We have to accept the fact

that there are disabled

folks that wanna go different routes.

Some people wanna be business people,

some people wanna be activists,

some people wanna be advocates,

and some people just

want to live in peace.

And that doesn't necessarily

make them like myself

or like TJ out in the front lines or,

and by the front lines,

I don't mean you have

to be picketing or protesting every day,

but writing, doing,

hosting events like both

of us have done, doing artistic events,

doing art therapy, being

a part of those groups.

That's the activism that

a lot of people don't see.

And they, they think that activism is kind

of this straight non-disabled.

Like you got to get a rock

thrown in your face to, to be.

And, and, and yes, the

disability community did

that a lot in the sixties

and seventies to make a

point to the fed, to the,

to the federal government.

But we, in this day

and age, we have had to find other ways

to do it online to do it.

But I think it's, it really

depends on what people need.

And I think it really at

the, just to keep it real,

I don't know to summarize

it, it it's either the people

that know how to advocate

for and wanna learn more,

or the people that don't know

how to advocate for themselves

and they're a little lost

and then they get kind of frustrated and,

and might even get angry

or emotional about it

and they don't know how, who to talk to.

So that's where, you know, TJ

is really good at meeting people

and kind of inviting them in.

You know, I think it really comes down

to do you wanna advocate for yourself?

And if so, how do you wanna do it?

And then if they wanna go

this way, if they wanna go

that way, we can support them.

Especially when it comes to

young, black and brown folks.

- TJ and Jaime, I wanna

thank you for inviting us in

to hear about the justice

work you're doing in Chicago.

It has been great being with you.

Thanks for joining the conversation.

If you'd like to reproduce all

or part of this podcast,

please email ici PUB at.edu.

- Our show is Co-produced

at the University

of Minnesota's Institute

on community integration

by impact managing editor Janet Stewart

and ICI media producer Pete McCaulay.

Skyler Mahi Love is our editor.

Graphic designers are Connie

Burkhart and Sarah Curtner.

For more information on the institute

and all of our products

and projects, please visit ici.dot edu.