Impact goes on the road to Chicago to talk with self-advocate, activist, and writer T.J. Gordon, who created a story map to highlight people with disabilities living in different neighborhoods of Chicago. T.J. introduces us to Jaime Cornejo, a fellow activist and a participant in Gordon's storytelling project.

• See T.J.'s article here
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Janet Stewart

Welcome to Impact the Conversation, a podcast of the University of Minnesota's Institute on Community Integration. It brings you strategies and stories advancing the inclusion of people with disabilities. Our guests are the authors of impact, our long running magazine that bridges the research to practice gap with professional and personal reflections on what matters most in disability equity today. I'm your host, Janet Stewart.

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Janet Stewart

Hello and welcome to Impact the Conversation. I'm here today with T.J. Gordon from the University of Illinois at Chicago. T.J., it's great to have you here.

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T.J. Gordan

It's a pleasure to be here as well.

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Janet Stewart

Janet, can you just tell me a little bit about who you are?

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T.J. Gordan

I'm currently a research associate at the Institute on Disability Human Development at the University of Illinois at Chicago, or UIC. What I do as a research associate, I usually, assist in, projects and research related to disability, especially bringing in participants of color. I also sometimes help with, creative presentations and webinars about the intersections of disability and race, as well as,

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T.J. Gordan

We have also done a lot of educational work on promoting awareness of, Covid 19 and Covid 19 vaccination.

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Janet Stewart

That's awesome. And so can we describe a little bit about this building? We're sitting here in a room that looks like it used to be a hospital room. Did this, did this used to did this used to be, the UIC Medical Center?

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T.J. Gordan

Actually, yes. There was, ACL, Medical center, but in particular this building that we. And right now, it used to be a, hospital for, patients with mental health conditions, so that it used to be a institution. And it's ironic that we have office space at a former institution.

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Janet Stewart

Exactly. That's what that's what I was getting to. How do you feel about that? Is it kind of a good feeling to be doing some good work on this after what, you know, with what you know about our history, with institutions?

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T.J. Gordan

Oh, yeah. I it's kind of a mixed feeling because of course we do get to see the history of what people like myself live through. More than likely 50 years ago or over. And I could still see, like, relics, vestiges of what happened, even with, there's still showers in some places. There used to be showers or the kitchenette even, or even the layout of the room that used to be actual hospital beds.

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T.J. Gordan

So it's somber to be reminded of where, people like myself came from who have, invisible disabilities. I like to call them. But at the same time, I am also honored to be working with the Institute on Disability Human Development, especially at a place that is used to be is a 2%. But now we reclaimed it as a place where we want to give people out in the community.

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T.J. Gordan

So interest and every turn this into a, an advocacy center, a research center to help people with disabilities be out and about it productive in the community as opposed to being locked up.

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Janet Stewart

Exactly. And and so, speaking of advocacy, I know you were a you are or were a SA tech fellow. Can you explain a little bit about what SA TAC is and then about the fellowship?

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T.J. Gordan

Yeah. So SA tech is actually under under this organization called Self Advocacy that advocates, be empowered or Sabe, which is a national organization. So advocates inside tech is the technical wing. Sabe where we people could get a lot of playing there with information about, what's going on in advocacy now. And also they need to know of, let's say, intersectionality, how to advocate for addressing yourself and even, sexuality topics.

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Janet Stewart

And you did a SA tech fellow. You were tech fellow in, what.

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T.J. Gordan

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Janet Stewart

Gotcha. And tell me a little bit about that. What what was what was that fellowship all about?

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T.J. Gordan

So if you were a fellow you work with, someone within the nonprofit organization you work with. And so at the time I work with, Advanced Youth Leadership Power, which is a, racial justice group within Access Living. I work with, the, the, organizer of that group, Candace Coleman, on the this I am project.

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Janet Stewart

And how did you how did how did disabled I am even start who who was that a project to started or.

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T.J. Gordan

I will say this project that we started alongside with Candace. It started out with the work we are doing about addressing the police brutality among people with disabilities of, color especially we address in how in the media we hear about the violence. We get to hear about the families we get to definitely witness the race of models, the victims affected by police violence.

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T.J. Gordan

But we never get to hear their story about the disability, especially its, reports like the Ruderman Eport. Want there to, have, police violence stories in the news involve, people with disabilities. And I'm not surprised that nobody is hire allow people of color. I'm not surprised.

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Janet Stewart

So when did disabled I am begin? Was there a certain case of injustice that really spurred it? Or what? When did it get started?

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T.J. Gordan

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T.J. Gordan

This is why I am. That moment I was I wasn't there in the building, but I saw the pictures we got. This, I think is a powerful statement to say this is who I am and as abled as my identity, and I carry the badge of honor. I wanted to help expand it personally, and wow, we couldn't do as many in-person pictures due to the pandemic.

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T.J. Gordan

Was able to do a few in Chicago, but we we did the side tech fellowship aspect of it where, it was myself who led the charge and also Brittany King, where she is also a part of a while. And, another group, Access Living, called their power for specifically for disabled women. Yes. So we work together and taking pictures and collected pictures and stories of disabled people, not only in Chicago, but in the being, people who submitted from out of state and even 1 or 2 from other states.

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Janet Stewart

So how many pictures did you collect?

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T.J. Gordan

We talk about, we end up collecting about 20 to 30 total between two thousand nineteen and two thousand twenty one.

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Janet Stewart

And and from all over.

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T.J. Gordan

Yes. Wow.

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Janet Stewart

And in the beginning, what were you going out to try to find people of color or did that come later? Was that what was the intersection of race, involved from the start, or was that something that came on later?

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T.J. Gordan

I think we intentionally, and naturally happened to focus on intersection sadly early on. And we especially highlighted the intersectionality and the what we call phase one, where we went out and took pictures in the different neighborhoods and also, collected stories online as well. We noticed not only intersectionality, race, disability, ASL, but also gender as well. And to see the many different definitions of disability find out there based on their own experiences as however, they identified themselves as a person in general.

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Janet Stewart

And you said it yourself, you you focused on neighborhoods, and I want to get into that as well.

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T.J. Gordan

Phase two. Yes. Yeah.

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Janet Stewart

You know, Chicago is a city of neighborhoods. It's known as that. And neighborhoods are important here in a way they aren't in a lot of other cities. That's they're important politically. And you had this great idea for capitalizing on that. So can you talk a little bit about the neighborhood and how that intersect with with race and disability?

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T.J. Gordan

Oh, absolutely. So now so getting to phase two of the project where we work with not only assets living, but also their is another sub program, which is it's go, go all the way to DeKalb, DeKalb, disability, disability, culture, arts, lab using arts to as well as the disability issues that we face and we have staff is students from the school of the Art Institute in Chicago collaborate with us as well.

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T.J. Gordan

And I'm glad that you mentioned about The Neighbors Chicago, because I feel, you know, the wards that we call also those neighbors are very important because otherwise there is a lot of political power. It the time ins how to they will look especially through income. But I also feel if you want to make a an inclusive ward, a neighborhood, you also have to include, people with disabilities, with some places that are very inclusive and others either they don't think about it or they see disability as, they, they don't want to talk about which reflects the accessibility and inclusion in each area.

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T.J. Gordan

And I liked how we created a story map where not only gets a highlight the things that disabled people do in the neighborhoods, but also it gives, community stakeholders the chance to connect with them to address anything disability related in their neighborhoods.

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Janet Stewart

So what did you actually do with the students from the Art Institute? What was the collaboration there? What did you make when you say a story map, what is that?

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T.J. Gordan

Yes, that was that, actual story map. So let's take, a, similar to geocaching or something where you basically attaching a object to a map. In our case, we attached, this profile, this series of people who submitted the photos, information to their neighborhoods day in. And then from there, people go find, let's say they want to learn more about disability topics and let's say the South Shore area, they could look at, oh, there's somebody with a disability I can reach out to.

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T.J. Gordan

And that will also mean either there'll be more disabled people that will come out. As I was to discuss, issues like Jazz Connect or there would be also a tile for Ottoman and mayor to also connect with the disability community's Aids ward. Also, to ensure that each ward is the only accessible from the business and part of the scale point, but also inclusive as well to all parts of life and all parts of Chicago.

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Janet Stewart

That's fantastic. And so what kind of feedback have you gotten so far and all this? You have about a dozen stories up and mapped, is that correct?

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T.J. Gordan

Yes.

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Janet Stewart

And is is it your hope that it then grows and other people will contribute stories, or how is that going to work?

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T.J. Gordan

My my personal hope is the more people see the map of more people will like to, add to the map. And who knows, you may see a version of this. I and other cities within the US or even throughout the world.

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Janet Stewart

And what really struck me about the disabled I am campaign, it really hits at at really the evolution from disability rights. Now we have alongside that disability justice. Yeah. So what is the difference to you. What what what is justice do that. You know, we've had disability rights and we fought very hard battles for those rights and a lot in the legal system.

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Janet Stewart

And you know, fighting on the front lines of capital steps and, and various kinds of legislation and justice seems a little more personal. And this project really kind of captures that. What what does it mean to you?

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T.J. Gordan

I feel like with disability rights is also always a missing part or my favorite analogy. The football stadium, for instance. So a field disability rights will be making sure that, you know, people with disabilities could get in to the stadium, as hopefully as possible. And also they're able to see the game or have access to bathrooms without needing little to no assistance at all.

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T.J. Gordan

There's more the like you mentioned, alluded to, alluded to for the legal side and, construction, side of accessibility. Disability justice is deeper because it's all about treating the person fairly and meeting where people at, at. So I will also use that cells a few examples. So if you want to talk about disability justice is not only getting me into, Soldier Field, to watch the game in a accessible manner is also I guess so I feel right at home, I feel included, I, I feel a part of the Chicago Bears, family.

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T.J. Gordan

As a fan, I feel disability justice is all about, treating a person equitably and fairly as opposed to just helping somebody get into the door with a disability rights.

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Janet Stewart

Where does color and race come into it for you? Because you've you've probably faced discrimination, as you know, as a person with an invisible disability. You've probably faced discrimination as a black man all the time. How how do you even process that? Because you don't sort of say, oh, this little action was because I'm disabled. This little action was because I am black.

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Janet Stewart

You don't you don't separate that out, do you?

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T.J. Gordan

I do not. It's double causes, common causes. And is that darn, very heavy double or multiple consciousness. I like to call it, where I feel my identities play a role in some type of way. Or they may come together and I feel I feel more marked personally because I'm African-American male. I'm autistic. That calls, well, stigmas with itself.

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T.J. Gordan

I'm also a father to, a four year old with Cosby. A lot of stigma within the black community. And I'm also I have two masters. So education, you know, there's stigmas outside. So I feel that we we do dive adult type of things sometimes I was like,

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Janet Stewart

And when you say when you say a stigma as a parent, you mean the the because of your race or.

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T.J. Gordan

Yeah, because of my race. Usually they think of black dads as deadbeats or unavailable. So I fighting that stereotype. It's always like I have so many marginalized identities. I had to fight hard to prove to people that I am exist, let alone are worthy. But also the intersectionality plays them perfectly because I can reach out to people who deal with similar struggles with others.

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T.J. Gordan

Those, you know, what the black men are facing, what fathers, especially disabled fathers are going through, disabled, educators. I can relate to them. So I think intersectionality can be the place. It's a place for me where I can reach out to many people, 80 levels, even though what I could face is hard for many people.

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T.J. Gordan

So imagine, especially if, especially since what I go through is a lot of layers.

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Janet Stewart

And we're sitting here in this building that, you know, used to be an institution, right? We certainly come up a good distance from that. Do you feel hopeful about the work that you and others are doing, or is there? You know, a lot of folks have felt since Covid, a backlash. You know, we had George Floyd, we had a lot of, we had a lot of situations during Covid where people of color, people with disabilities felt like they were at the back of the line to get good health care once again.

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T.J. Gordan

Oh, yeah.

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Janet Stewart

So yeah, we're where do you feel we are right now in terms of progress?

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T.J. Gordan

Can we we call it progress or is it more like a cycle continuing where throughout history we have there's how we back to square one. That's how I'll be back at square one. We could go back to as far as civil rights and disability rights and the aftermath. We had years of, you know, there's hope then things I'll take it away, a challenge.

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T.J. Gordan

We fight again, the same power over and over. And I think right now we at the point where, this the separate the civil, a racial unrest that took place in two thousand twenty two because George Floyd, is this of police violence as well as how Covid affected the marginalized community. We at the moment, here we go again. We gotta keep fighting to exist and to be free.

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T.J. Gordan

This world is going to be prejudiced until you know the end of time. I don't know, but I feel like eReaders give kids a fight, a remind people that the world could be great if we not only come together, but work together, realize we here for the similar things, then maybe we don't have. We might not see the taking rooms as much as we might have the peaceful world that we want.

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Janet Stewart

After visiting TJ in his office at UIC, we got a chance to get out to a couple of the neighborhoods where disabled I am participants live. We talked with them about the project and about other aspects of disability justice that play a role in their lives. One of the conversations was with him, a Chronicle who lives in the Woodlawn neighborhood of Chicago, not far from President Obama's home in Hyde Park on the city's South Side.

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Janet Stewart

TJ, would you introduce me to Jay and tell me a little about how you two got to know each other?

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T.J. Gordan

00;22;57;28 - 00;23;32;04

Jamie Cornejo

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T.J. Gordan

Terry originally we were bands, youth, leadership, power where the age range was from 16 to 30. So I was in my late 20s when I joined. But then the people aged out want to continue with the advocacy. So. We trained with the same group, but our focus as a, advanced your leadership power is the cross disability racial justice component, where we not only focus on disability rights, but also we do a lot of the stuff that we advocated for as opposed to race.

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T.J. Gordan

It was a part we had to add the disability justice in particular race or disability justice on it into our group.

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Janet Stewart

Why did that all come together? Do you think T.J. and I were just talking about aspects for you? Where does race and disability intersect for you?

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Jamie Cornejo

Oh really? My whole life as a brown kind of other South American US born, you know, I guess you could say straight. I'm straight, gender non-conforming. You know, I know I'm straight, but I know I've learned to be gender non-conforming and okay with that in terms of roles. But for me, the racial component, the ethnic and racial component, came into play when, I mean, just the fact that in spaces that I've been I've been criticized for speaking a certain way of, being a brown kid that spoke only English until I was nine years old, where I had to learn Spanish to survive, but not when I left Chicago.

00;25;31;17 - 00;26;03;26

Jamie Cornejo

But the racial component for a while, particularly in Chicago, came because a lot of the incidents of violence and police, you know, black and brown youth in Chicago have been and across the country really have been affected disproportionately. In terms of when there's mental health crises, when there's a domestic violence dispute, and in particular, black and brown men get, and both TJ and I, in different contexts, we've been assaulted, we've been harassed.

00;26;03;29 - 00;26;49;23

Jamie Cornejo

And the city of Chicago just for looking like this, know, like just for being who we authentically want to be. And nobody sees the education and the blood, sweat and tears that we put into, you know, just kind of this notion of the American dream, which is obviously not true. It's a nightmare. So the notion of like, I guess this whole idea around, our kind of us becoming more of, educational youth rights, students with disabilities in Chicago public schools, kind of, focus in a while, apart from the racial justice component was the key turning point.

00;26;49;26 - 00;27;02;25

Janet Stewart

Was tell me a little about the disabled. I and I went the the frames, and hijacked. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Can you walk me through what that was? But that was about and and how how that felt to be part of it.

00;27;03;02 - 00;27;30;09

Jamie Cornejo

It was it was fun actually. It was pre and post pandemic. TJ and UIC have been really instrumental in partnering with, you know, the disability cause. And it started just highlighting stories, you know, highlighting stories of real people, black and brown folks, and some white people that were also a part of the campaign.

00;27;30;12 - 00;28;05;25

Jamie Cornejo

It was just highlighting their stories and who they were and kind of like summarizing who they were. So people can get to know them. And, and, you know, I like to say I'm the grandfather of the group, me and Curtis, but T.J. here and a few other people are more some more, some social media friendly. So he kind of used that platform to show us on Facebook and show us on Instagram and, and, although it is a vehicle that can help, I still feel like it's still mainstream.

00;28;05;27 - 00;28;33;14

Jamie Cornejo

So the hard part is to say, like, hey, like, where do we find disabled folks that are not proud and that need help and that need a hand that's been a little hard since two thousand twenty? We have to accept the fact that there are disabled, folks that want to go different route. Some people want to be business people, some people want to be activists, some people want to be advocates, and some people just want to live in peace.

00;28;33;14 - 00;29;00;25

Jamie Cornejo

And that doesn't necessarily make them like myself or like TJ, I out in the front lines or and by the front lines, I don't mean you have to be picketing or protest in every day, but writing, doing posts and events like both of us have done, doing, artistic events, doing art therapy, being, part of those groups that the activism that a lot of people don't see.

00;29;00;25 - 00;29;28;11

Jamie Cornejo

And they think that activism is kind of this straight, non-disabled, like, you gotta get a rock thrown in your face to, to be. And yes, the disability community did that a lot in the 60s and 70s to make a point to be fed, to the to the federal government. But we, in this day and age, we have had to find other ways to do it online, to do it.

00;29;28;14 - 00;29;53;18

Jamie Cornejo

But I think it's really depend on what people need. And I think it really at, just to keep it real and to summarize it, it's either the people that know how to advocate for themselves and want to learn more, or than people that don't know how to advocate for themselves. And they're a little lost. And then they get kind of frustrated and, and might even get angry or emotional about it.

00;29;53;18 - 00;30;22;13

Jamie Cornejo

And they don't know how or who to talk to. So that's where, you know, T.J. is really good at meeting people, and kind of inviting them in. You know, I think it really comes down to, do you want to advocate for yourself, and if so, how do you want to do it? And then if they want to go this way, if they want to go that way, we can support them, especially when it comes to young black and brown folks.

00;30;22;16 - 00;30;36;01

Janet Stewart

TJ and hi, I want to thank you for inviting us in to hear about the justice work you're doing in Chicago. It has been great being with you.

00;30;36;04 - 00;30;46;14

Janet Stewart

Thanks for joining the conversation. If you'd like to reproduce all or part of this podcast, please email Aisi Pub at n.edu.

00;30;46;17 - 00;31;24;29

Pete McCauley

Our show is co-produced at the University of Minnesota's Institute on Community Integration by Impact managing editor Janet Stewart, and ICI media producer Pete McCauley. Skyler Mihajlov is our editor. Graphic designers are Connie Burkhart and Sarah Curtner. For more information on the Institute and all of our products and projects, please visit AISI, NTI, Edu.