Artwork for podcast The Flow
The Flow: Episode 2 - The Future of Podcasting?
Episode 216th August 2022 • The Flow • Ecamm Network
00:00:00 00:38:02

Share Episode

Shownotes

The Flow : 2

Listen to The Flow

Podcasting, especially video podcasting, can be a great way to share your message with the world. There are so many things to learn and do, but it's hard to know where to start if you've never done it before.

Producing a podcast can seem daunting at first; it's easy to feel overwhelmed when you're starting something new. Using a Video First approach with Ecamm Live will make it much easier and save you lots of time.

The Flow is here to help. We'll take you step-by-step through creating a video podcast, from planning and production to promotion and monetization. You'll learn how to build an efficient workflow that will make your content shine, leaving you to focus on creating great content.

In this episode, we discuss the future of podcasting

Wanna Try Ecamm Live for 14 days free: https://ecamm.com

Ecamm Network

The Flow website

Transcripts

Doc Rock:

Welcome to The Flow.

Doc Rock:

I am your podcast host, Doc Rock, the community manager here at Ecamm, along

Doc Rock:

with my awesome co-host Katie Fawkes.

Katie Fawkes:

So excited to be here.

Doc Rock:

Hi Katie.

Doc Rock:

Welcome to The Flow.

Doc Rock:

This is our second episode of The Flow of the first episode is out

Doc Rock:

and in the wild cruising on iTunes.

Doc Rock:

Right now.

Doc Rock:

It's kind of exciting.

Katie Fawkes:

Super exciting.

Katie Fawkes:

And I love today's topic because we are going to be talking

Katie Fawkes:

about the future of podcasting.

Katie Fawkes:

Where are we heading to?

Doc Rock:

I feel like I should've went and got a gigantic crystal

Doc Rock:

ball or something of that nature.

Katie Fawkes:

That would've been really fun.

Doc Rock:

We could have had the, we could, maybe we on graphics afterwards, we can

Doc Rock:

be looking through the crystal ball.

Doc Rock:

There we go.

Doc Rock:

There we go.

Doc Rock:

All right.

Doc Rock:

Cool.

Doc Rock:

We're talking about the future of podcasting.

Doc Rock:

I do wanna say a couple of things, first of all, thank you to all of the people

Doc Rock:

that downloaded the inaugural episode.

Doc Rock:

I really appreciate that's the first it's been super great.

Doc Rock:

Again, folks, if you got this and you liked it, please drop a review.

Doc Rock:

Reviews are very helpful for podcast.

Doc Rock:

If you are creating a podcast, remember to ask your people to drop reviews.

Doc Rock:

Reviews really do help your podcast a lot.

Doc Rock:

It's how the aggregators know who to show the podcast to.

Doc Rock:

So, yes, if you enjoy a podcast by all means drop a review,

Doc Rock:

but this has been super fun.

Doc Rock:

It's exciting.

Doc Rock:

And although not my first podcast, it's really cool to birth another

Doc Rock:

podcast and every time it's exciting.

Doc Rock:

I don't know what it's like to have kids, but I wanna say it's like having kids.

Doc Rock:

Except for, I don't have to pay for this.

Katie Fawkes:

Super excited.

Katie Fawkes:

Yeah, exactly.

Katie Fawkes:

Exactly.

Katie Fawkes:

It was super exciting this morning.

Katie Fawkes:

I was listening to my usual podcast selection.

Katie Fawkes:

I'm like, my top, you know, my top eight that I rotate through.

Katie Fawkes:

And then all of a sudden I was like, oh, our podcast is today.

Katie Fawkes:

So I was able to search it and find and screenshot it and harass all of you

Katie Fawkes:

good people to make sure that you were subscribed and liked and leaving reviews.

Katie Fawkes:

So it was exciting.

Katie Fawkes:

And if you're new to this, it's a really fun experience.

Katie Fawkes:

And it was so much easier that I thought it would be.

Katie Fawkes:

It came together really quickly.

Katie Fawkes:

So, yeah, it's been great.

Katie Fawkes:

Yeah.

Doc Rock:

So remember on Tuesdays, Tuesday mornings, you should find a new episode

Doc Rock:

of The Flow in your podcast aggregator, whichever one you chose and if you happen

Doc Rock:

to like seeing this live, or you have questions about podcasts, you want to

Doc Rock:

come and join us for the live taping.

Doc Rock:

The live taping happens a week in advance at 12:00 PM Eastern

Doc Rock:

for now until the clock changes.

Doc Rock:

And then you can come and hang out in a studio audience with

Doc Rock:

the cool studio audience, people who are hanging out today.

Doc Rock:

This is quite.

Doc Rock:

Amazing.

Doc Rock:

All right, gang.

Doc Rock:

So let's get started with episode two.

Doc Rock:

And my favorite thing to say, Katie, would you read the first

Doc Rock:

point to the people at home?

Katie Fawkes:

Where's podcasting headed in the future?

Doc Rock:

I really like this question.

Doc Rock:

It took me some thinking about this, but there are a couple that I have in my head

Doc Rock:

right now that I think are gonna make a big deal when it comes to podcasts.

Doc Rock:

And one of the first ones is the quality of podcasts, the content quality and

Doc Rock:

the quality of podcasts is going up.

Doc Rock:

Yeah.

Doc Rock:

And now this doesn't mean you need to run out and generate

Doc Rock:

a fantastic podcasting studio.

Doc Rock:

That's not necessarily the only thing related to quality.

Doc Rock:

It is extremely helpful if you do.

Doc Rock:

It is not the most important thing.

Doc Rock:

What is the most important thing is the quality of the

Doc Rock:

content that's in the podcast.

Doc Rock:

And so what happens is in the beginning, you just had podcasts where you could

Doc Rock:

just kind of come and hang out and chill and sort of banter with your friends.

Doc Rock:

And it was entertaining now that we're fighting against 2 million other podcasts.

Doc Rock:

I don't think you have to do that.

Doc Rock:

Right.

Doc Rock:

I think now people are going to be looking for either entertainment or

Doc Rock:

information and they're coming to you because they're looking to you

Doc Rock:

as a provider of that type of stuff.

Doc Rock:

So I think it is extremely important nowadays that you

Doc Rock:

pull good quality content.

Doc Rock:

Take your time, write your stuff out in the beginning, have a show flow.

Doc Rock:

If you will, you can deviate from your show flow.

Doc Rock:

But you should have a basics, right?

Katie Fawkes:

Yep.

Katie Fawkes:

Yeah.

Katie Fawkes:

And I mean, really again, this is the entire point of this show is to

Katie Fawkes:

really get you thinking through the importance of planning it out in

Katie Fawkes:

advance, having a workflow that works for what you're trying to accomplish.

Katie Fawkes:

So, you know, with this show again, you know, we're really trying to show the

Katie Fawkes:

power of mixing together, both video and audio, as well as text, to be able

Katie Fawkes:

to be picked up by search engines.

Katie Fawkes:

You know, we're thinking through that, but always with

Katie Fawkes:

the focus of the content first.

Katie Fawkes:

So, you know, what is the content you wanna share?

Katie Fawkes:

What's the value you wanna bring?

Katie Fawkes:

And what's the best way to get that out to the most amount of people?

Katie Fawkes:

When we're thinking about video podcasts, you know, that's just being

Katie Fawkes:

able to extend out the audience past only podcast listeners into the world

Katie Fawkes:

of YouTube, you know, likely other spaces that will trim up these video

Katie Fawkes:

clips and be able to share them.

Katie Fawkes:

So that matters more in many ways than how good your camera quality is

Katie Fawkes:

or whether or not you have splashy intro music or cool graphics.

Katie Fawkes:

The actual value in the content that you're bringing is the most important

Katie Fawkes:

part of any kind of live show or podcast or content that you're creating.

Doc Rock:

I agree with that a hundred percent.

Doc Rock:

Now, the other point that I think is very important to the future of podcasting and

Doc Rock:

something that I think those folks who are getting into this should probably take a

Doc Rock:

look at podcasting as a marketing tool.

Doc Rock:

Now that sounds crazy, but we're doing it.

Doc Rock:

I mean, you're watching this.

Doc Rock:

Watch this people.

Doc Rock:

This is how we do it.

Doc Rock:

We are Ecamm.

Doc Rock:

We create a amazing software, but we, I mean, Ken and Glen create an

Doc Rock:

amazing software that allows someone who wanted to say, start a podcast,

Doc Rock:

to easily download Ecamm, set up your scenes, invite your guests.

Doc Rock:

Off to the races, like very, very simple.

Doc Rock:

Now we could spend a lot of time just writing Google ads or Facebook ads,

Doc Rock:

and we could spend a lot of time just trying to show up in the Mac magazines

Doc Rock:

or whatever, or we could generate a podcast answering the frequently asked

Doc Rock:

questions about mm-hmm whatever your product is about, showing how it works

Doc Rock:

in a lifestyle, talking to the users, finding various use case in scenarios

Doc Rock:

and explaining that through a podcast.

Doc Rock:

Fantastic marketing tool.

Doc Rock:

There's a couple of my apps that I love.

Doc Rock:

Day One has been doing this for a long time.

Doc Rock:

I love the Day One journaling app and they use their podcast as a

Doc Rock:

combination of community building tech support and marketing the app.

Doc Rock:

I mean, when I first downloaded the app, I wasn't sure if I was gonna

Doc Rock:

go pro or not, and I should just listen to the podcast and probably

Doc Rock:

within about the third episode, I'm like, yep, I'm getting a pro version.

Doc Rock:

And way back in the day, Phil Lubic used to do a Evernote podcast back

Doc Rock:

when I was a green elephant guy.

Doc Rock:

And again, like I was all about the product from the podcast and

Doc Rock:

you generated your community and look at all these people hanging

Doc Rock:

out in a live studio audience.

Doc Rock:

Our studio audience is our community members.

Doc Rock:

And then there's new people that are gonna bump in and be like, Hey, that Mr.

Doc Rock:

Moderator guy's kind of cute.

Doc Rock:

I wanna hang out over here.

Doc Rock:

You know, like these people know what they're talking about and they help you.

Doc Rock:

So rather than just yelling out in the street, like the old cough syrup

Doc Rock:

salesperson, you know, circa 1920s, you can be a community member of your

Doc Rock:

own community and talk about things and invite folks into the conversation.

Doc Rock:

Have bidirectional conversation.

Doc Rock:

Podcast is one of the best marketing tools out there after live video, of course.

Katie Fawkes:

Yeah.

Katie Fawkes:

Well, and, and it's crazy because not only are you getting out in front of a much

Katie Fawkes:

wider audience than you ever would've been able to with more traditional advertising

Katie Fawkes:

and marketing tactics and platforms, but you have that immediate conversation

Katie Fawkes:

and immediate reaction and feedback from your customers, from your potential

Katie Fawkes:

customers right here in the live chat.

Katie Fawkes:

So, you know, we'll get immediate questions and feedback and

Katie Fawkes:

pain points, all of that.

Katie Fawkes:

We'll be able to use to continue to build and grow our content.

Katie Fawkes:

So not only are we making it easier for people on the other end who wanna learn

Katie Fawkes:

more about what this is like or whatever it is that you're sharing or teaching or

Katie Fawkes:

talking about in your show, but you'll also figure out pretty quickly what's

Katie Fawkes:

relevant and what's not relevant from your customers in a way that, you know, used

Katie Fawkes:

to require case studies and a ton of time and effort and a lot of luck . So now,

Katie Fawkes:

if you're, if you can be really clever about it and really strategic about it,

Katie Fawkes:

you can get to know your customers really quickly build those relationships, but

Katie Fawkes:

you also can listen to them and hear what it is that they're struggling with.

Katie Fawkes:

It is that's important to them.

Katie Fawkes:

I really think that in many ways, that's the future of marketing as

Katie Fawkes:

well as the future of podcasting and certainly of video podcasting.

Doc Rock:

That's very true.

Doc Rock:

Very, very true.

Doc Rock:

I really do love the concept of just sort of building a bidirectional conversation

Doc Rock:

around your product, using a podcast.

Doc Rock:

It is one of the best ways to do it.

Doc Rock:

And it's fun.

Doc Rock:

There you go.

Doc Rock:

There's the other part.

Doc Rock:

Yes.

Doc Rock:

It's fun.

Doc Rock:

I do kind of appreciate that.

Doc Rock:

So yeah, that's my two number one things is I think improving the

Doc Rock:

quality of your podcast helps.

Doc Rock:

Yes, you can add more things to make it sound better.

Doc Rock:

And all of that we've been reminded of this week.

Doc Rock:

There is a fantastic tool called Krisp, which people can use if you

Doc Rock:

just want to like, get better sound out of the microphone you already own.

Doc Rock:

Krisp is extremely helpful.

Katie Fawkes:

Mm-hmm okay.

Doc Rock:

Yes with a K.

Doc Rock:

K R I S P makes me think of British potato chips.

Doc Rock:

Yeah, exactly.

Doc Rock:

And then, you know, just again, having your content set up in a way and building

Doc Rock:

a show flow, just adding that little bit of polish, and this is something

Doc Rock:

that Ecamm can help you out with, right?

Doc Rock:

Using us, makes it so much easier to be polished out of the gate.

Doc Rock:

You eliminate some of the hassle.

Doc Rock:

I would love to hear what Mr.

Doc Rock:

Camera Junkie, Luis, thought about editing the first show, the way we

Doc Rock:

sent it to him as a video first versus audio, we instantly, when I edit audio

Doc Rock:

only, I've done it thousands of times.

Doc Rock:

It's different when you have something visual to work off of and he can delete

Doc Rock:

the video part, but to me, it's easier to edit with the visual perspective as

Doc Rock:

long as your computer can swing that.

Doc Rock:

Absolutely.

Doc Rock:

Okay.

Doc Rock:

Let's get into the next quick case.

Katie Fawkes:

What trends are we seeing in podcasting?

Doc Rock:

Right.

Doc Rock:

Oh, I like this.

Doc Rock:

I like this.

Doc Rock:

It's very, very, very good.

Doc Rock:

Okay.

Doc Rock:

So let me talk about the first trend.

Doc Rock:

I think the future in podcasting, not dissimilar from video in general or

Doc Rock:

even social media is hyper niching.

Doc Rock:

And I know people hate to hear that.

Doc Rock:

I know people hate to hear that because they wanna do seven things.

Doc Rock:

I am a Swiss Army nerd.

Doc Rock:

I completely understand, you know, you open up the Swiss Army knife.

Doc Rock:

It's got all these various tools and things like that.

Doc Rock:

My likes, my wants, my desires, my passions.

Doc Rock:

They're like that.

Doc Rock:

And it just comes with an ADD brain.

Doc Rock:

However, people are coming to you for a very, very particular thing.

Doc Rock:

Right?

Doc Rock:

If all of a sudden the McDonald's started selling big screen TVs,

Doc Rock:

I don't think any of us are gonna buy a yellow and red clown logo TV.

Doc Rock:

That's just not how it works.

Doc Rock:

People are looking for that hyper hyper niche.

Doc Rock:

I think it's time to drill it down.

Doc Rock:

So here's a prime example.

Doc Rock:

We're Ecamm Live.

Doc Rock:

We could have made this podcast about a myriad of things, but

Doc Rock:

we're making this podcast about podcasting, not about live streaming.

Doc Rock:

Even though that's our primary focus, if you will.

Doc Rock:

Yeah, absolutely.

Doc Rock:

We're also forcing all of our live audience to hold all of their usual level

Doc Rock:

of enthusiasm and questions about all things video and all things Ecamm fam

Doc Rock:

and all the upcoming events that we have going on to other forums, other places

Doc Rock:

later times, because we do really wanna be able to keep as focused as possible

Doc Rock:

so that people who are discovering podcasting and joining us live in the

Doc Rock:

future are going to be able to get the value that they want and get the check

Doc Rock:

mark for the thing that they searched for.

Katie Fawkes:

Right.

Katie Fawkes:

There's nothing more frustrating than searching for this specific dishwasher

Katie Fawkes:

that I have is broken and getting like an interview with a plumber about

Katie Fawkes:

the future of dishwashing, right?

Katie Fawkes:

Like that that's not gonna solve that problem for you.

Katie Fawkes:

So what we really wanna try with this specific podcast, and what we'd

Katie Fawkes:

encourage everyone to embrace, is to really think through what those pain

Katie Fawkes:

points are and what the goals are of your listeners, of your viewers, and

Katie Fawkes:

make sure that you're hitting that.

Katie Fawkes:

It's okay to go off a little bit here and there and, you know, add

Katie Fawkes:

your personality and add those real authentic moments that people can

Katie Fawkes:

get to know you better, but they're there to listen for a specific reason.

Katie Fawkes:

And that can be entertainment.

Katie Fawkes:

There's lots of amazing podcasts out there that are meant to be

Katie Fawkes:

conversational and to have debates and to be entertaining and or comedic.

Katie Fawkes:

But if yours is about a set topic, then you should try to

Katie Fawkes:

stick to that as best as you can.

Doc Rock:

I'm sorry about my random acts of comedic.

Katie Fawkes:

No, I think you could have random acts of comedic.

Katie Fawkes:

I keep thinking to my usual podcast line up.

Katie Fawkes:

There's one I listen to.

Katie Fawkes:

It's got a hilarious comedy duo who read obituaries out loud to each other.

Katie Fawkes:

Right.

Katie Fawkes:

Super specific meant to be really funny.

Katie Fawkes:

And now they add like every single episode, there's, you know, an additional

Katie Fawkes:

kind of weird like death related topic or like weird things that they've added in,

Katie Fawkes:

but they've stayed on topic even though their topic is so incredibly specific.

Katie Fawkes:

Yeah.

Katie Fawkes:

Yeah.

Katie Fawkes:

But they've built this really big audience and they've built this

Katie Fawkes:

audience around it and people that come to listen and again, it's totally

Katie Fawkes:

entertainment, but they've found a topic and they've really niched down and

Katie Fawkes:

they're doing really well as a result.

Katie Fawkes:

It's like nothing anyone has heard before, you know, they

Katie Fawkes:

have a very specific audience.

Katie Fawkes:

So, you know, whether it's educational or it's fun, you know,

Katie Fawkes:

pick your topic and your focus.

Katie Fawkes:

Figure out who your audience is, and really, really stay to that.

Katie Fawkes:

That's where we're gonna be able to differentiate ourselves against

Katie Fawkes:

the 2 million, the 3 million, the 5 million in the future other

Katie Fawkes:

podcasts that are out there.

Doc Rock:

You know, it's funny you say that because you know that my secret

Doc Rock:

love is TCO, which I'm pretty much not in their demographic, but hey, it's so good.

Doc Rock:

And I watched true crime stuff.

Doc Rock:

You're reinvent.

Doc Rock:

Because I just like the process.

Doc Rock:

I think I wanted to be a detective when I was a little kid.

Doc Rock:

I don't know why I really enjoy that.

Katie Fawkes:

Same, same.

Doc Rock:

So what's really amazing is they're taking a topic that's

Doc Rock:

really a lot to handle, but they bring brevity to it and they bring

Doc Rock:

brevity to it in their respectful ways.

Doc Rock:

Like, hey, this, we understand families are hurting.

Doc Rock:

We understand victims are out there, but we want you to

Doc Rock:

take a different look at it.

Doc Rock:

They've actually been able to help solve some unsolved crimes,

Doc Rock:

which I think is incredible that there's people searching around.

Doc Rock:

I recently discovered this thing called the Jane Doe Network or the

Doc Rock:

Doe Network is properly what it is.

Doc Rock:

And, you know, they're able to find people through their podcast, listeners

Doc Rock:

of this genre that just exploded on podcast, which is true crime now.

Doc Rock:

Yes, there's a whole network and that other stuff, but the network doesn't allow

Doc Rock:

the people to have conversation around it, all of these forums and communities

Doc Rock:

and Discords that are happening.

Doc Rock:

These people are working together and they're helping out.

Doc Rock:

Families get closure on situations.

Doc Rock:

And to me like it's chicken skin, right?

Doc Rock:

Not because it's scary, but because it's endearing that people are

Doc Rock:

able to help each other like that.

Doc Rock:

So that's one of the advantages of a hyper niche is you can

Doc Rock:

build a community of like-minded people and oftentimes like-minded

Doc Rock:

people can help move the needle.

Doc Rock:

There's a story back in the day where TiVo was getting themselves into some trouble,

Doc Rock:

not really realizing what they were doing, cuz they were all over the map and the

Doc Rock:

community helped formulate what ended up being the product that ran the game for

Doc Rock:

a minute until we got video on demand.

Doc Rock:

So you know, it's very much so that just all of you guys hanging out in the Ecamm

Doc Rock:

community as you guys talk and you talk about things you wanna see in the app.

Doc Rock:

Like just yesterday.

Doc Rock:

So this is why hyper niching can help as a creator.

Doc Rock:

It lets you know, what your audience wants and you might be able to add

Doc Rock:

things to your product lineup and fix it.

Doc Rock:

Or you guys as a total community can work together as a voice.

Doc Rock:

For whatever it is, you're talking about, whether it's ancient Mesopotamium

Doc Rock:

spin art or, you know, cycling, who knows whatever you guys are into.

Katie Fawkes:

Absolutely.

Doc Rock:

Very cool.

Doc Rock:

Okay.

Doc Rock:

We got another part to this.

Doc Rock:

I think that the second part of this, of where the future of

Doc Rock:

podcast is heading, and this is gonna sound super cheeky people.

Doc Rock:

I don't mean it's to sound cheeky, but it is the truth.

Doc Rock:

It's video podcast.

Doc Rock:

Or podcasting.

Doc Rock:

I know this sounds weird as you're watching us record a podcast or

Doc Rock:

listening to what was taped in front of a live studio audience, I think the

Doc Rock:

podcast brings a whole nother element.

Doc Rock:

Our whole first episode was why video podcasting.

Doc Rock:

So we cover that in detail already, but the reason why I see this as a future,

Doc Rock:

number one, I strongly believe this and I'm gonna keep saying it until it's real,

Doc Rock:

because that's how manifesting works.

Doc Rock:

YouTube is gonna make a podcast segment of their situation and the minute they

Doc Rock:

do that, the faucet is open, you know, Black Friday, Walmart VCR on sale for $10.

Doc Rock:

Yeah.

Doc Rock:

That's about to go down that, that is.

Katie Fawkes:

I mean, and we're already seeing that anyway.

Katie Fawkes:

You have platforms like Spotify, for example, that are adding on

Katie Fawkes:

video podcasting and, kind of going back to what you said last week.

Katie Fawkes:

You know, you had this where it was very segmented out.

Katie Fawkes:

You had video podcasts on this side and audio podcasts on this side.

Katie Fawkes:

And then they kind of came together into this one space.

Katie Fawkes:

And now we are seeing the platform starting to notice the value in

Katie Fawkes:

video now that more and more of us have the right equipment and

Katie Fawkes:

are doing more live streaming.

Katie Fawkes:

I think you are gonna start to see many more of these platforms.

Katie Fawkes:

Say like, oh, shoot.

Katie Fawkes:

People do want to be able to consume content in this way, or maybe they, for

Katie Fawkes:

the most part, listen to the podcast audio only while they're driving or

Katie Fawkes:

running or doing chores or whatever else, but they wanna be able to tune in to a

Katie Fawkes:

live studio audience, or they wanna be able to do these kind of video events,

Katie Fawkes:

you know, more and more podcasters who are doing these, you know, instead

Katie Fawkes:

of being out there on the road, doing these kind of road shows or at events

Katie Fawkes:

or doing these video experiences so that they're able to interact with fans.

Katie Fawkes:

I think you're gonna continue to see more of that and you're gonna see the platforms

Katie Fawkes:

be it Spotify, YouTube, probably even Apple jumping into this space of really

Katie Fawkes:

wanting to be able to embrace that and giving a space for video and for fans

Katie Fawkes:

to be able to interact with video.

Doc Rock:

You know, what's funny that you mentioned the video event side of this.

Doc Rock:

I wanted to add that to my checklist, but I thought it might scare

Doc Rock:

people and it shouldn't be scary.

Doc Rock:

I just know that when I say things, it scares people because they

Doc Rock:

think I'm gonna make it expensive.

Doc Rock:

I'll say it, but it doesn't have to be, I really agree with you.

Doc Rock:

Okay.

Doc Rock:

For instance, at Social Media Marketing World, when we have the Ecamm party.

Doc Rock:

It would've been really cool had we, you know, known that we were gonna do this.

Doc Rock:

We didn't even know we were gonna do this back then to record a live studio

Doc Rock:

taping of The Flow with everyone there.

Doc Rock:

And it would've just been fantastic.

Doc Rock:

We had a lot of people in the room.

Doc Rock:

There was a lot of energy and a dog.

Doc Rock:

It was really cool.

Doc Rock:

It was fun.

Doc Rock:

And we could have recorded the day version where everything was nice.

Doc Rock:

And then we could have recorded the night version where we had amazing

Doc Rock:

cocktail with the E printed on the top that I don't know what was in it.

Doc Rock:

But it worked.

Doc Rock:

That's all I gotta say.

Doc Rock:

I'm gonna leave it.

Katie Fawkes:

Yeah.

Katie Fawkes:

Yeah.

Katie Fawkes:

And you have platforms like Moment House, for example, that are really

Katie Fawkes:

being very clever and they're partnering with a lot of these like very well

Katie Fawkes:

known, huge fan based podcasts and podcasters, and are creating these

Katie Fawkes:

really amazing virtual experiences that were originally designed to help

Katie Fawkes:

during the pandemic for podcasters who had an active tour schedule and weren't

Katie Fawkes:

physically able to get out there on tour.

Katie Fawkes:

But I think now you're starting to see and likely going forward a hybrid mix of that,

Katie Fawkes:

where you're gonna have some podcasters that are gonna hit the road and do kind

Katie Fawkes:

of an in person meet and greet with all of their fans and attend all these events.

Katie Fawkes:

They're likely also, still going to have that virtual aspect for fans who can't

Katie Fawkes:

get there, who live in other countries.

Katie Fawkes:

And it's just too cumbersome or to make it just feel really inclusive

Katie Fawkes:

and special and inviting in a way that an in-person event may not be able to

Katie Fawkes:

do due to budget or special guests or schedules or a number of other things.

Katie Fawkes:

So, yeah, I think it's a really neat, it opens up a ton of doors that if

Katie Fawkes:

you're sitting there and you're saying, oh, I'm an audio only podcast haven't

Katie Fawkes:

really thought about video or maybe you're a streamer, but your podcast

Katie Fawkes:

is separate and it's still audio only.

Katie Fawkes:

I think that you don't necessarily need to fully jump into switching

Katie Fawkes:

it all over to video podcasts.

Katie Fawkes:

You could start by doing video events for your community and for

Katie Fawkes:

your listeners and see what they think about it and go from there.

Katie Fawkes:

It at least gets.

Katie Fawkes:

Some of that video content and kind of your foot in the door.

Doc Rock:

That is a brilliant transition way to do it.

Doc Rock:

Like basically do live streams and, you know, live events or video rundowns,

Doc Rock:

like say you covered something in detail that require a visual aspect,

Doc Rock:

you can generate a video tutorial.

Doc Rock:

Yeah.

Doc Rock:

But with it, you can do after show parties in your Discord or whatever.

Doc Rock:

So, yep.

Doc Rock:

I like that.

Doc Rock:

And speaking of transitions, okay, now we can make radio oriented.

Doc Rock:

Let's get into our last play for today.

Doc Rock:

All right.

Katie Fawkes:

So what can podcasters do to make sure that they're staying relevant?

Katie Fawkes:

How do you stay relevant?

Doc Rock:

Oh, this is such a good question.

Doc Rock:

This is a good question.

Doc Rock:

Whether you're podcasting or not, this one actually, how can we all stay relevant?

Doc Rock:

Yeah, it actually made me spark the old nogging a little bit.

Doc Rock:

I think one of the most important things you could do is really know your content.

Doc Rock:

I know that sounds obvious, but it is.

Doc Rock:

Okay.

Doc Rock:

So it is, but you, it should, it's obvious for a reason, for sure.

Doc Rock:

Yeah.

Doc Rock:

It's obvious for a reason.

Doc Rock:

Thank you for helping me find a way to say something that my

Doc Rock:

brain wasn't going to catch onto.

Doc Rock:

Let me explain this in a nutshell, anyone who's ever rolled up on a five

Doc Rock:

year old and accidentally mentioned the word dinosaur or something dinosaur

Doc Rock:

related, you will get a 15 minute Ted Talk about the triceratops and the

Doc Rock:

way that the triceratops technically should have been the most dominant

Doc Rock:

dinosaur, but T, tyrannosaurus rex or T-Rex as they call it.

Doc Rock:

I don't know why they call tyrannosaurus rex, it's just T-Rex.

Doc Rock:

But man, like literally a super long Ted Talk from a five year old about

Doc Rock:

dinosaurs with a level of confidence as if they were Malcolm freaking Gladwell.

Doc Rock:

So the people who say I'm shy or I'm this, or I'm that, go five years

Doc Rock:

old again, because you weren't fully understanding what that meant back then.

Doc Rock:

So you were willing to tell anybody who would listen about

Doc Rock:

race cars, fire engines, dinosaurs.

Doc Rock:

Or your dogs, your cats, your grandmother's house, Disneyland...

Doc Rock:

Some people never grow out of it.

Doc Rock:

Rob, I'm looking at you.

Doc Rock:

Yeah.

Doc Rock:

So if you go back to your children, your nieces or nephews, anybody you

Doc Rock:

can think of that's under the age of 10 and the level of confidence that they

Doc Rock:

talk to you about whatever is their particular thing is that week, I believe

Doc Rock:

Katie's is like eight and I'm sure she will have a full 10 talk with you.

Doc Rock:

Right.

Doc Rock:

Yeah.

Doc Rock:

And no problems.

Doc Rock:

Like she will just sit down, mom, listen to this.

Doc Rock:

And Katie's like okay.

Doc Rock:

And she's crocheting and there's this full on Scarlett Ted talk.

Doc Rock:

So thank you for coming through.

Katie Fawkes:

Yeah, exactly.

Katie Fawkes:

And I think the, what goes along with that too, is the

Katie Fawkes:

level of enthusiasm and passion.

Katie Fawkes:

So, you know, think back to what you were most excited about when you were a kid.

Katie Fawkes:

And think to what you're most excited about right now.

Katie Fawkes:

So that is the topic that your podcast should be about.

Katie Fawkes:

That is the topic that you should be sharing is what excites you

Katie Fawkes:

and what makes you passionate.

Katie Fawkes:

So passionate that it overcomes some of that fear or the camera confidence

Katie Fawkes:

challenges that you've been having, or all of the reasons why you shouldn't

Katie Fawkes:

or the reasons why not video, not yet.

Katie Fawkes:

That level of passion should overcome that.

Katie Fawkes:

So what's the thing that you're great at?

Katie Fawkes:

What's the thing that you love to do?

Katie Fawkes:

What do you wanna talk about?

Katie Fawkes:

What excites you?

Katie Fawkes:

And if it's not a topic, maybe it's a cohost.

Katie Fawkes:

Sometimes it's easier to do this kind of thing and be on with

Katie Fawkes:

someone else to bounce ideas off of.

Katie Fawkes:

Don't let the tech get in the way of you being able to do something fantastic.

Katie Fawkes:

You know, if you can niche down to the specific thing that you're awesome

Katie Fawkes:

at, that makes what you're passionate about slightly different than everyone

Katie Fawkes:

else than, you know, taking it back.

Katie Fawkes:

You found that place.

Katie Fawkes:

So double down on that.

Katie Fawkes:

Yeah.

Katie Fawkes:

Get excited about it.

Doc Rock:

Yes.

Doc Rock:

It's so funny, but it's a hundred percent true.

Doc Rock:

Like that level of effervescence that comes outta you when you are on

Doc Rock:

about something that you're on about, for me, it's Red Sox, the Raiders,

Doc Rock:

Manchester United, Japanese whiskey.

Doc Rock:

Like again, I have a whole bunch.

Doc Rock:

I like the concept of teaching people, how to get out what they have

Doc Rock:

stuck in them, because yes it is.

Doc Rock:

You know, and for instance, for me in my neighborhood, I don't get to have

Doc Rock:

lots of conversations with people about my love for Manchester United, right?

Doc Rock:

There's America.

Doc Rock:

We're not a very football round country.

Doc Rock:

We're a football long country.

Doc Rock:

And so everybody wants to talk about the Raiders.

Doc Rock:

I'm wanting to talk about Manchester United.

Doc Rock:

So on a podcast, I can generate that because it's global.

Doc Rock:

Right?

Doc Rock:

I can have that conversation.

Doc Rock:

See, you know, it can be old video games.

Doc Rock:

It can be something like old, small block Chevys, not just vintage cars

Doc Rock:

or muscle cars, we're gonna take it all the way to the small block Chevy.

Doc Rock:

You can go extremely niche.

Doc Rock:

Kathy Hester is currently doing all this content around a product

Doc Rock:

called a Ninja Creamy, family.

Doc Rock:

This is an ice cream maker.

Katie Fawkes:

It is the season for this!

Doc Rock:

And now everybody want one.

Doc Rock:

And I'm like, I can't believe she had me looking at that thing.

Doc Rock:

And I'm like, I do not need that.

Doc Rock:

I don't want that.

Doc Rock:

Okay, but I was invested.

Katie Fawkes:

But you kinda do!

Katie Fawkes:

Stop it,

Doc Rock:

Katie.

Doc Rock:

Stop it.

Doc Rock:

Before Katie makes me buy this ice cream machine.

Doc Rock:

Let me cover the next part about staying relevant to me.

Doc Rock:

This is my thing.

Doc Rock:

You can disagree with me.

Doc Rock:

And that is kind of the thing I believe is to challenge the assumptions.

Doc Rock:

Anybody who knows me really well knows I'm very good at this.

Doc Rock:

And it's part of my critical thinking.

Doc Rock:

I've labeled myself a critical thinker.

Doc Rock:

At some point I've studied the process.

Doc Rock:

I've looked into it on deeper scale.

Doc Rock:

I believe that there is something really, really enlightening about challenging

Doc Rock:

the assumptions now, challenging assumptions doesn't mean you have to

Doc Rock:

go all out to try to negate things.

Doc Rock:

It's just about to look at them on a deeper level.

So for instance:

assumption is in order to make a podcast, you need

So for instance:

to make a silent room with a couple of good mics and you can just talk.

So for instance:

And my assumption is you should start with a video because it's so much

So for instance:

easier, the level of interaction and just seeing your cohost as you're

So for instance:

recording, as opposed to just listening to your cohost as a different level of

So for instance:

excitement, even if you delete the video.

So for instance:

So us creating a video first focus for podcast that is challenging the

So for instance:

assumptions of what a podcast is, right?

So for instance:

What do live streamers look like?

So for instance:

Gamers who are really, really good at some first person shooter

So for instance:

or, you know, Madden or whatever.

So for instance:

Live streaming is business people reaching out to help people like bring that?

So for instance:

Yeah.

So for instance:

That, you know, I mean, my side helpful, the whole industry is

So for instance:

talking about how do I generate a side hustle to make more money?

So for instance:

And I'm out here talking about how to generate a side helpful

So for instance:

to make more money, help people.

So for instance:

You make more money.

So for instance:

It's super simple.

So for instance:

Yeah.

So for instance:

So challenging assumptions, regardless of what's going on in your industry

So for instance:

is a fantastic way to stay relevant.

So for instance:

Absolutely.

So for instance:

Yep.

So for instance:

Couldn't agree.

So for instance:

All right.

So for instance:

Here's the last one.

So for instance:

And I want everyone to listen to this one closely.

So for instance:

One, it will warm my heart.

So for instance:

B, you're never gonna believe this is gonna come outta my face.

So for instance:

and I was gonna say B and three is one B three, one B three.

So for instance:

You know, and the last point about this is I think you can

So for instance:

use this to your advantage.

So for instance:

Here we go.

So for instance:

Let me, let me, stretch for this one, cuz it's gonna be a good.

So for instance:

Regardless of your gear.

So for instance:

I want you to treat your podcast show like it's being produced by NPR.

So for instance:

I'm gonna say that again.

So for instance:

I don't care if you're starting in your bathroom with your iPhone,

So for instance:

believe it or not in your car with the doors locked tight.

So for instance:

And the engine off is a fantastic audio booth.

So for instance:

It is basically silent in there unless you have a really old car.

So for instance:

I don't care where you're starting, treat your show like

So for instance:

you're running an NPR level show.

So for instance:

If you are unfamiliar with what an NPR level show is, go download one.

So for instance:

Hidden Brain is one of my favorites.

So for instance:

This American Life.

So for instance:

Right.

So for instance:

Download one of these NPR shows and listen to it.

So for instance:

Hear how they do it.

So for instance:

And like, I'm just starting out.

So for instance:

I don't know exactly how they do it, but model yourself like that.

So for instance:

And here's what I mean by that.

So for instance:

Many people will take up golf today and say, I wanna model

So for instance:

myself after Tiger Woods or Jack Nicholson or somebody famous.

So for instance:

Right.

So for instance:

If you're gonna take up cooking, you're gonna follow one of your

So for instance:

famous chefs that you like.

So for instance:

And, yep.

So for instance:

It's the same thing.

So for instance:

If you're gonna take up podcasting, NPR is one of the best in the business.

So for instance:

Ira Glass.

So for instance:

Come on, fam right?

So for instance:

Malcolm Gladwell, another one.

So for instance:

I'm mentioning him twice a day.

So for instance:

What's going on?

So for instance:

I know it's a Malcolm Gladwell, J Arod you know, any of these people

So for instance:

listen to their podcast, hear how they do it and treat yourself like that.

So for instance:

Don't always start out with the, hey, I'm just beginning mentality.

So for instance:

Because it's easy to stay there.

So for instance:

You can be just beginning, but you don't have to treat yourself that way.

So for instance:

You could treat yourself like a thousand million folks are listening.

So for instance:

Right.

So for instance:

So spend a little time on, again, your running show, a little bit of polish, you

So for instance:

know, Sign your guests up when your guests come on, give them the full red carpet

So for instance:

treatment, cuz here's what's gonna happen.

So for instance:

You're gonna accidentally get a humongous guest on your show.

Katie Fawkes:

So true.

Katie Fawkes:

Yeah.

Doc Rock:

And they will say, oh my God, you will not believe the

Doc Rock:

level of intent this person had.

Doc Rock:

And.

Doc Rock:

We were in the same place about the time, but I got a podcast invite

Doc Rock:

or a live show invite from Yvi Heimann, who's an Ecamm member.

Doc Rock:

And later Kirk, uh, Kirk, I say nugget it's Nugent, and they sent this

Doc Rock:

list of what they wanted to happen.

Doc Rock:

When you came to their show and I was like, wow, impressed.

Doc Rock:

Yeah.

Doc Rock:

And I mean, they nailed the experience.

Katie Fawkes:

And I couldn't agree more.

Katie Fawkes:

And I was talking the other day about what brands are looking for, you know,

Katie Fawkes:

as you're trying to get up and running with sponsorships, or, trying to

Katie Fawkes:

partner with brands, making people feel special is one of the top things that

Katie Fawkes:

you can do, whether you're like a brand new podcaster or, you know, or you've

Katie Fawkes:

been doing it for forever, having that experience where they feel as though.

Katie Fawkes:

Even if they've never been on an interview before they feel safe, they

Katie Fawkes:

feel like you made them look great.

Katie Fawkes:

They feel like it's a piece of content that they would want

Katie Fawkes:

to share with someone, you've made it really easy for them.

Katie Fawkes:

All of these things are so important and not that hard to do.

Katie Fawkes:

It's not that hard to make people feel special.

Katie Fawkes:

Again, get out of your mind.

Katie Fawkes:

Like all of the tech and overthinking the process and wanting some special form.

Katie Fawkes:

All of that will come.

Katie Fawkes:

Focus really instead on making that person feel like they are

Katie Fawkes:

the most special person to you.

Katie Fawkes:

It is the most important thing.

Katie Fawkes:

It is the biggest deal.

Katie Fawkes:

It's all of that.

Katie Fawkes:

That goes a really, really long way.

Katie Fawkes:

And you're right.

Katie Fawkes:

Like that really is what the NPR shows of the world are fantastic at.

Katie Fawkes:

Is that they make it feel like it is an experience, both for their

Katie Fawkes:

listeners as well as you can hear it in how they bring guests on.

Katie Fawkes:

There's a level of professionalism and confidence that some

Katie Fawkes:

of it comes with time.

Katie Fawkes:

And some of it is just faked.

Katie Fawkes:

They just put it on and believe in themselves and get there.

Katie Fawkes:

So whether it's guests or by yourself, just make yourself feel special,

Katie Fawkes:

make your guests feel special.

Katie Fawkes:

Make your listeners and viewers feel special, even if there's only two

Katie Fawkes:

or three of them on, they showed up, make it feel like it's a huge party.

Katie Fawkes:

So don't let those things get to you.

Katie Fawkes:

It'll all come, but it'll come when you double down and believe in yourself and

Katie Fawkes:

believe in the reason why you started.

Doc Rock:

There are so many things.

Doc Rock:

That doing it cautiously is actually more dangerous than believing

Doc Rock:

in the process and going at it.

Doc Rock:

We famously have a rock here in Hawaii.

Doc Rock:

Why me bay, that, you know, tourists love the climb up there and think

Doc Rock:

they're gonna jump off like Acapulco.

Doc Rock:

It's not that far.

Doc Rock:

I think it's like a 20 foot drop.

Doc Rock:

But yikes, the people that get hurt are the one that changed their mind at

Doc Rock:

the end, the ones that go up there and give them, as we say in Hawaii, we say,

Doc Rock:

give them the ones that go up there and give them jump off the rock, cheer.

Doc Rock:

Perfect.

Doc Rock:

Every time, the ones that heads their bets, belly flop back, flop

Doc Rock:

pain, screaming, somebody gotta go get them out of the water.

Doc Rock:

So it's kind of like that.

Doc Rock:

Podcasting is very much like that.

Doc Rock:

If you go into it, knowing that you got this, what you do, and there's

Doc Rock:

a lot of us here to help you.

Doc Rock:

I know a lot of people will remember this.

Doc Rock:

If you're a car person, you're a car person.

Doc Rock:

So the car people will remember this when you got your first bucket and

Doc Rock:

don't mean like real bucket, like you needed vice grips to roll down the

Doc Rock:

windows a little bit of tape to keep that side mirror just with that,

Doc Rock:

a joint adeptness that you have.

Doc Rock:

But to you, you might as well have been driving a benzo.

Doc Rock:

That was your whip.

Doc Rock:

I remember my first car was a 77 Pinto.

Doc Rock:

It was school bus yellow, and it was a Pinto.

Doc Rock:

If you ran into the back of a Pinto, they would explode.

Doc Rock:

But to me, I might as well have been driving a Lamborghini, man.

Doc Rock:

I would get out there and clean the mirrors and tires, like

Doc Rock:

had the aerial just right.

Doc Rock:

You know, put the little golf ball on the end so that you can find your

Doc Rock:

car, like all of the things, like I spent a lot of time babying that

Doc Rock:

car because to me it was everything.

Doc Rock:

It was all the grass cutting and all the summer jobs and all of that.

Doc Rock:

Right.

Doc Rock:

So treat your podcast like you did that first thing, whatever you were really

Doc Rock:

into, whether it was your first car or your first dating experience, whatever

Doc Rock:

it is, treat your podcast like that.

Doc Rock:

It will grow a lot, lot better.

Doc Rock:

It just does.

Doc Rock:

Family, that was all that I had for this particular episode.

Doc Rock:

Katie, you got any last parting words you like to hit the folks with?

Katie Fawkes:

You can do it, which I feel like is our ending for every

Katie Fawkes:

live stream and for the podcast and for everything that we've been saying.

Katie Fawkes:

I will just keep saying it over and over to all of you.

Katie Fawkes:

If you want to do it, you can do it.

Katie Fawkes:

There's lots of help.

Katie Fawkes:

There's lots of support and resources.

Katie Fawkes:

It's not like back in the day where you had to go to the library

Katie Fawkes:

and get a bunch of books and spend an insane amount of time.

Katie Fawkes:

You have a lot of people you can connect with.

Katie Fawkes:

You have videos, you can watch, you have tons of resources, you are able to do it.

Katie Fawkes:

It's up to you.

Doc Rock:

You know, it's very good you say that.

Doc Rock:

And for if you're just starting out, perfect.

Doc Rock:

Ride with us because then you can ride one way and we get lost and you get lost

Doc Rock:

and we find the magic palace or whatever.

Doc Rock:

Then you'll find the magic palace with us.

Doc Rock:

So ride with us.

Doc Rock:

If you're thinking about it, start your podcast.

Doc Rock:

Now I have the trailer already in the old aggregator, I have the first episode and

Doc Rock:

this episode will come out next Tuesday just in time for the next live recording.

Doc Rock:

So you have time just go ahead and get it together.

Doc Rock:

People come ride dirty with us.

Doc Rock:

It's okay.

Doc Rock:

Yep.

Doc Rock:

We will all roll in there.

Doc Rock:

Smelly spinach and the teeth together.

Doc Rock:

But somehow we are going to get there.

Doc Rock:

So I appreciate you guys.

Katie Fawkes:

High fiving.

Katie Fawkes:

We'll be high fiving, the whole way.

Doc Rock:

High fiving, the whole way.

Doc Rock:

I appreciate you guys for listening to this.

Doc Rock:

If you are listening to this at the gym in your car, ride in the

Doc Rock:

shower, in the bathroom, wherever your podcast listening happens.

Doc Rock:

I appreciate you for listening to this.

Doc Rock:

Thanks again.

Doc Rock:

If you enjoy this, please leave us review on your favorite podcast.

Doc Rock:

Aggregator.

Doc Rock:

Don't forget if you want to be part of the live experience.

Doc Rock:

The live experience happens every Tuesday at 12:00 PM.

Doc Rock:

Eastern that's 6:00 AM Hawaiian and come in, enjoy it.

Doc Rock:

While we hear live, the audience is going off.

Doc Rock:

We're gonna go 10 to them and answer some questions.

Doc Rock:

But you can also jump into our Facebook group, our Discord and our Discord, we'll

Doc Rock:

have a section for you to conversate with the rest of your podcasting brethren.

Doc Rock:

So I appreciate everyone for being here.

Doc Rock:

Katie, you make this so much easier than if I had explain this by myself and you

Doc Rock:

know, what's odd last week, I record my podcast right after, and then I do

Doc Rock:

my live stream and it's not the same.

Katie Fawkes:

Oh, I'll have to come as a guest.

Katie Fawkes:

You'll have to invite me on.

Doc Rock:

It's so much better when Katie is here.

Doc Rock:

So I appreciate you guys.

Doc Rock:

Thank everyone again.

Doc Rock:

And that my friend is another wrapped up session of The Flow.

Doc Rock:

Just a reminder.

Doc Rock:

If you haven't already, you can find us at flow dot Ecamm dot com.

Doc Rock:

If you have anything you want to ask us, or at episode, you'd like to see us

Doc Rock:

cover, you can email us at flow@ecamm.com.

Doc Rock:

And of course, if you're on a video version, scan this QR code

Doc Rock:

and it will get you started.

Doc Rock:

Thank you guys once again for listening to another episode of The Flow.

Doc Rock:

Thanks everyone.