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Making Marketing Analytics Easier
Episode 3618th July 2022 • Close The Loop • CallSource
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Kevin Dieny:

Hello, and welcome to the Close The Loop podcast.

Kevin Dieny:

I'm your host, Kevin Dieny.

Kevin Dieny:

And today we're gonna be talking about making marketing analytics easier.

Kevin Dieny:

And when we say easier, right?

Kevin Dieny:

Are we talking like, oh, it's gonna be done for you.

Kevin Dieny:

It's gonna be just, you know, one click away.

Kevin Dieny:

I think we're really, after helping you understand it better.

Kevin Dieny:

Helping you see the value easier helping you just get a better understanding

Kevin Dieny:

and more confidence in yourself about yes, as a business leader, I

Kevin Dieny:

think I can really take marketing analytics and do something about it.

Kevin Dieny:

That's gonna help my company grow!

Kevin Dieny:

So to help us dive into that exciting topic.

Kevin Dieny:

I have a really special guest with us today.

Kevin Dieny:

His name is Scott Konopasek and he is the CEO and founder of Mint Measure.

Kevin Dieny:

Scott is a media planning, ad buying and measurement guru.

Kevin Dieny:

Scott has built and led digital media departments at agencies for over 10 years.

Kevin Dieny:

So he is got a lot of experience here.

Kevin Dieny:

He has worked with brands like the American Red Cross, Slack Bumble, and

Kevin Dieny:

Jenny Craig, some very big companies.

Kevin Dieny:

Scott loves learning about almost anything, but particularly enjoys

Kevin Dieny:

learning about ancient history.

Kevin Dieny:

Scott moved to Utah during the pandemic and he spends the winter

Kevin Dieny:

skiing and the summers camping.

Kevin Dieny:

So welcome and thank you so much for coming on Scott.

Scott Konopasek:

Hey, Kevin.

Scott Konopasek:

Thanks for having me.

Kevin Dieny:

So we'll go right into this.

Kevin Dieny:

If you could, for the people who are like mark the heck is marketing analytics.

Kevin Dieny:

can you maybe explain it like they're five.

Kevin Dieny:

Hah, what marketing analytics is and what it means for businesses?

Kevin Dieny:

Just in simple terms.

Kevin Dieny:

So they know, okay, what, this is what we're gonna be talking about a lot more.

Scott Konopasek:

Yeah, marketing analytics is about understanding

Scott Konopasek:

all the different data points that are available to a market.

Scott Konopasek:

And the end goal is to try and understand how did marketing drive

Scott Konopasek:

sales for the business and how can I do things maybe a little bit differently?

Scott Konopasek:

Or can I learn from this?

Scott Konopasek:

So there's certainly different levels to marketing analytics

Scott Konopasek:

and the depth that you go.

Scott Konopasek:

But all the analytics work that a marketer will do is going to be focused

Scott Konopasek:

around what worked and how do I get.

Kevin Dieny:

That's great.

Kevin Dieny:

That's a good in, that's a good overview.

Kevin Dieny:

And for businesses thinking, well, I've heard of this, but.

Kevin Dieny:

That's a topic that makes me cringe.

Kevin Dieny:

Right?

Kevin Dieny:

So why is marketing analytics perceived as being such a difficult, maybe even

Kevin Dieny:

cumbersome or annoying or diff like just a, just an emotionally charged

Kevin Dieny:

thing for a business to figure out

Scott Konopasek:

Yeah, if we think about data in general, the amount of

Scott Konopasek:

data that we have today is so much more than we've ever had in history.

Scott Konopasek:

And even in the last 20 years, most of the data in the history of

Scott Konopasek:

planet earth has been generated.

Scott Konopasek:

And so, relatively speaking data analysis is a very new skill.

Scott Konopasek:

Being able to look at data sets, find connections, and then understand what that

Scott Konopasek:

means is only something that we've had to do realistically since like 2008, 2010,

Scott Konopasek:

when it, at least in a marketing sense.

Scott Konopasek:

In 2012, when I was, uh, you know, my first years in my career, Facebook ads

Scott Konopasek:

was like the newest, hottest thing.

Scott Konopasek:

And so I remember sitting down with, the spreadsheet with hundreds of

Scott Konopasek:

rows of data and trying to like, what am I supposed to do with this?

Scott Konopasek:

And I think that most marketers feel that way, right?

Scott Konopasek:

They look at, you know, whether it's their data inside of an ad platform like Google

Scott Konopasek:

or Facebook, or it's Google analytics, or maybe it's even an export of like all this

Scott Konopasek:

complex data from like a Shopify store.

Scott Konopasek:

It's just overwhelming, right?

Scott Konopasek:

Like, oh, how do I do this?

Scott Konopasek:

And from our business standpoint, we've done a lot of like research into this.

Scott Konopasek:

And what we found is that something like 70% of marketers struggle to understand

Scott Konopasek:

the data and apply it to their campaigns.

Scott Konopasek:

And for one very simple reason, they're not analysts they're marketers.

Scott Konopasek:

And so, you know, this marketing team of like three to five people, they're

Scott Konopasek:

someone who knows how to buy ads.

Scott Konopasek:

They're someone who, is running email campaign.

Scott Konopasek:

There's someone else who's like maybe working on creative and

Scott Konopasek:

promotional materials, notably missing is a data analyst.

Scott Konopasek:

And so if you leave, or if, if brands in general leave the data

Scott Konopasek:

analysis to somebody who knows how to do it, well, chances are, there's

Scott Konopasek:

no one that knows how to do it.

Scott Konopasek:

So you'd have to be a weirdo like myself and just love the data

Scott Konopasek:

and like figure out how to do it.

Scott Konopasek:

Most brands need a little bit of help.

Scott Konopasek:

And so I think, analytics can be really scary.

Scott Konopasek:

And you know what we've also found, just through our experience is that

Scott Konopasek:

most people start to care about data analytics when things are going sideways

Scott Konopasek:

or when things are going bad, right.

Scott Konopasek:

As an early stage company, as a small and medium business, you're like, cool.

Scott Konopasek:

I just learned how to use Google and Facebook ads.

Scott Konopasek:

You just learned two brand new platforms.

Scott Konopasek:

You set up your campaigns, you wrote your creative, like

Scott Konopasek:

that's already a ton of work.

Scott Konopasek:

And so if you can just put a dollar into Facebook and $3 come out the other side,

Scott Konopasek:

most brands don't ask too many questions.

Scott Konopasek:

They're like, it works.

Scott Konopasek:

It keeps going well, if I add 50% more budget, does it keep going up?

Scott Konopasek:

And so typically brands wait until something breaks.

Scott Konopasek:

Uhoh I put a dollar in and only 90 cents came out no longer $3.

Scott Konopasek:

Now it's time to do some analysis.

Scott Konopasek:

Now it's time to like, figure out what went wrong.

Scott Konopasek:

And so, um, it's, it's really kind of funny to, to see these brands

Scott Konopasek:

who are like, no, it's fine.

Scott Konopasek:

It's fine.

Scott Konopasek:

And then we'll get a call back in a couple weeks, like, Hey, so it's not fine.

Scott Konopasek:

So I definitely think that there's like that element of, of, you

Scott Konopasek:

know, it's scary, it's a lot and it requires specialized knowledge.

Kevin Dieny:

Yeah, I was looking up, you know, before we met here,

Kevin Dieny:

what are some of the problems people had with marketing analytics?

Kevin Dieny:

And one of the one, one of the big ones I kept seeing was data overload.

Kevin Dieny:

Just like you mentioned it.

Kevin Dieny:

And when you just see red.

Kevin Dieny:

Basically, I just see data everywhere.

Kevin Dieny:

Well, okay.

Kevin Dieny:

I don't really quite know how to interpret it.

Kevin Dieny:

I don't, I'm not seeing solutions.

Kevin Dieny:

I'm not seeing dollar signs everywhere.

Kevin Dieny:

I'm seeing just a lot of information and data out there.

Kevin Dieny:

It feels overwhelming.

Kevin Dieny:

And, and then that sort of leads you to like, well, okay, so there's a lot of

Kevin Dieny:

information just like you've mentioned.

Kevin Dieny:

Maybe like I pick my corner of it that I'm gonna focus on and

Kevin Dieny:

then just ignore everything else until it becomes a problem.

Kevin Dieny:

Which is, taking bite size chunks out of it, sort of how people

Kevin Dieny:

do learn and figure things out.

Kevin Dieny:

But just like you said, like, oh, oh, now I've got problems.

Kevin Dieny:

Well, that sort of led me to like realize one of the second biggest

Kevin Dieny:

things people had was like, well, I don't really trust the data and where

Kevin Dieny:

I don't trust it, I don't use it.

Kevin Dieny:

I don't wanna see it.

Kevin Dieny:

And I start to use my intuition, like my gut and, or I just ask, Hey, you

Kevin Dieny:

know, look at what my competitors are doing and assume they're

Kevin Dieny:

doing it the perfect right way.

Kevin Dieny:

So how, how does marketing analytics help a business

Kevin Dieny:

overcome, trust issues with data?

Scott Konopasek:

Yeah, we hear from marketers all the time that trust in

Scott Konopasek:

the data is the number one problem.

Scott Konopasek:

So if you don't believe the numbers that Facebook is giving you, you

Scott Konopasek:

don't think that those are accurate.

Scott Konopasek:

Are you gonna keep spending your money there?

Scott Konopasek:

Maybe because you're getting some results, but you're gonna be really hesitant to

Scott Konopasek:

increase your spend or, you know, let's suppose that there's, Some reporting

Scott Konopasek:

from your email marketing platform.

Scott Konopasek:

And you're like, mm, this, this kind of seems fishy to me.

Scott Konopasek:

Well, you might make a pretty big adjustment and like, say I'm gonna

Scott Konopasek:

turn off email for a period of time.

Scott Konopasek:

And so not trusting the data leads people to, to your point, use their gut and

Scott Konopasek:

to guess, and sometimes you can guess correctly and those people are very lucky.

Scott Konopasek:

The first challenge is like how do I, as a marketer start to believe my data more.

Scott Konopasek:

And so I think my, my advice, my first piece of advice is no data set is perfect.

Scott Konopasek:

Even Google analytics, which is oftentimes heralded as the

Scott Konopasek:

standard and web analytics.

Scott Konopasek:

That's sample data.

Scott Konopasek:

It's incomplete data.

Scott Konopasek:

It is a very good picture of what's happening, but it's not perfect.

Scott Konopasek:

And so no data from any platform is gonna be perfect.

Scott Konopasek:

So you just have to understand that, like there's gonna be

Scott Konopasek:

a small variance in there.

Scott Konopasek:

And then beyond that, you just have to start to pay attention to the data.

Scott Konopasek:

I think this is like one of the things that feels.

Scott Konopasek:

Very like low effort to do, but requires a lot of consistency.

Scott Konopasek:

So how can I sniff bullshit in my data?

Scott Konopasek:

If this is the first time I've looked at my data in six

Scott Konopasek:

months, there's no way, right.

Scott Konopasek:

If I've been spending a thousand dollars a week on Facebook and I've been

Scott Konopasek:

consistently getting a hundred sales and all of a sudden, I go from a hundred

Scott Konopasek:

sales to 40 sales in a three week period.

Scott Konopasek:

I can.

Scott Konopasek:

Believe that like something happened in Facebook.

Scott Konopasek:

I might not know what I might not like have the specific answers, but I've

Scott Konopasek:

been paying enough attention to my data to know when something changed.

Scott Konopasek:

And so, you know, Analytics in general is a journey.

Scott Konopasek:

It's not a silver bullet.

Scott Konopasek:

You're not gonna be like, Hey, I did data analytics this month.

Scott Konopasek:

And now my marketing is like, perfect.

Scott Konopasek:

And now like, everything is delivering a five to one row as, analytics is

Scott Konopasek:

about saying, here's a snapshot in time.

Scott Konopasek:

We see what's working.

Scott Konopasek:

We see what's not working.

Scott Konopasek:

And, or maybe we, we see some stuff, but we don't know if it's.

Scott Konopasek:

Well, let's make a change and let's see how that change like impacts my results.

Scott Konopasek:

And so you come back and you look at that data two or four weeks later.

Scott Konopasek:

And so analytics is this really this process of looking at the data, making

Scott Konopasek:

a change, monitoring how the trend is changing over time and being close

Scott Konopasek:

enough to the data, to understand, or, or recognize when something has gotten

Scott Konopasek:

significantly, right or significantly.

Kevin Dieny:

Wow, yeah.

Kevin Dieny:

In our business.

Kevin Dieny:

And in my, you know, internal language here, of how I

Kevin Dieny:

describe it to my colleagues.

Kevin Dieny:

I tell 'em, this is the feedback loop.

Kevin Dieny:

This is I'm gonna do something.

Kevin Dieny:

And then I'm gonna see that impact of that change after and marketing is so

Kevin Dieny:

dependent, like the, the activity parts of it are so dependent on getting good

Kevin Dieny:

quality feedback so that we can say, Hey, this is working or this is not,

Kevin Dieny:

maybe this is something we could change.

Kevin Dieny:

And have optimization apply to, or maybe it's not, and it's like a budget that's

Kevin Dieny:

move our resources somewhere else.

Kevin Dieny:

So the, the question that this leads me to, which is like, I think really

Kevin Dieny:

fitting here is if you're a smaller business and you look at this like,

Kevin Dieny:

well, you know, I did some college.

Kevin Dieny:

I maybe graduated, I, I have a business.

Kevin Dieny:

I'm wearing my business hat most of the time, other times, I'm

Kevin Dieny:

putting on my hiring hat and I have a, a hat rack with a lot of hats

Kevin Dieny:

on it and you know what I mean?

Kevin Dieny:

So, I think I've heard that it's like, well, man, putting on the marketing

Kevin Dieny:

hat and the analytics hat it's heavy.

Kevin Dieny:

So how does a business, who doesn't have like dedicated people.

Kevin Dieny:

Is there a way that they can make it easier or is there like what things make,

Kevin Dieny:

can make it easier so that someone who's got a lot of hats doing a lot, could

Kevin Dieny:

still, just, as you described, still have a feel of what's going on there?

Kevin Dieny:

So they would be clued in, okay, this is what's working or not working, and they

Kevin Dieny:

could still effectively do the marketing analytics without, a whole marketing

Kevin Dieny:

team without a whole marketing analytics position or role or department there.

Kevin Dieny:

Still be effective at doing marketing, using, some bits of marketing analytics?

Scott Konopasek:

Yeah, so there's three options that a business would have.

Scott Konopasek:

One is the owner where picks up another hat, puts on that hat

Scott Konopasek:

and says, I'm gonna learn it.

Scott Konopasek:

As a business owner myself, I can say that that is usually not the solution.

Scott Konopasek:

The second option is to either hire for that role or to, you know, carve out the

Scott Konopasek:

time with one of your existing marketing staff and get them trained up on it.

Scott Konopasek:

So you have that internal resource.

Scott Konopasek:

And then the third option is to outsource it.

Scott Konopasek:

And I know that a lot of business owners are very hesitant to outsource

Scott Konopasek:

analytics or something that is like so sensitive to the business.

Scott Konopasek:

But analytics is a very special set of knowledge.

Scott Konopasek:

It's a very special skill set and paying someone a thousand to $3,000

Scott Konopasek:

a month to, do some analysis, provide a clear, concise report.

Scott Konopasek:

Let's call it $2,000 a month.

Scott Konopasek:

That $2,000 and the hour spent by that specialty person is going

Scott Konopasek:

to deliver way more value and way more specific knowledge around your

Scott Konopasek:

business than the owner learning it themselves or training somebody else.

Scott Konopasek:

It's like, could I spend, you know, a quarter and a few thousand dollars

Scott Konopasek:

for my internal person to like, take an online course to do some stuff.

Scott Konopasek:

Yeah, but they're gonna be operating, let's call it at a 201 level.

Scott Konopasek:

But an analyst, a specialty person that you pay a couple thousand dollars a month,

Scott Konopasek:

they're gonna be operating at a 401 level.

Scott Konopasek:

And just the quality of work that you're gonna get is gonna be a lot different.

Scott Konopasek:

Every business needs to evaluate what makes the most sense.

Scott Konopasek:

I think an apt analogy is like, could a business owner build their own website?

Scott Konopasek:

Probably they're tools like Wix, but like if you hire a web designer, the

Scott Konopasek:

things that they're going to build and the creativity that they're gonna bring

Scott Konopasek:

to that project is just far and away, more than, than you could do yourself.

Scott Konopasek:

And so it's the same type of thing with analytics.

Scott Konopasek:

And so it's worth considering for businesses to, to outsource.

Kevin Dieny:

I think that's a really apt analogy there.

Kevin Dieny:

A lot of times a business is serving a function where yeah.

Kevin Dieny:

The, their customer could maybe do it themselves.

Kevin Dieny:

It should be something that you could digest and be like, yeah, we

Kevin Dieny:

do the same thing with our customers.

Kevin Dieny:

They could probably try to do it themselves.

Kevin Dieny:

They could go to school for years and figure it out or become a doctor

Kevin Dieny:

and try to, figure out their own diagnosis or become an attorney

Kevin Dieny:

and then try to defend themselves.

Kevin Dieny:

But there's a reason why those things are specialized.

Kevin Dieny:

Right.

Kevin Dieny:

So in terms of marketing analytics, like what it, what it's doing, what's going on

Kevin Dieny:

there, like the, the nuts and bolts of it.

Kevin Dieny:

The data, the information itself, right?

Kevin Dieny:

So how is marketing analytics and the information that it provides a business?

Kevin Dieny:

How is it adding value to a business?

Scott Konopasek:

That's a really great question.

Scott Konopasek:

There, there are a number of different ways to quantify value.

Scott Konopasek:

And so oftentimes there's just value in understanding what's happening, right?

Scott Konopasek:

If you are spending a money on three or four different ad

Scott Konopasek:

channels, you might be profitable.

Scott Konopasek:

You might be growing your business, but.

Scott Konopasek:

The value in understanding, for example, which of those channels are your growth

Scott Konopasek:

driver and which of those channels is just capturing the demand in the marketplace.

Scott Konopasek:

That's hugely valuable because you can like adjust your marketing

Scott Konopasek:

strategies in ways that you can't, without that knowledge.

Scott Konopasek:

So like sometimes just like having that information and that insight allows

Scott Konopasek:

you to start thinking differently.

Scott Konopasek:

There's so I would call that like, informational or strategic value.

Scott Konopasek:

Then we spend a lot of time in our business talking

Scott Konopasek:

about the practical value.

Scott Konopasek:

And so we, we like to say that analytics without action is just research and

Scott Konopasek:

like, you're not gonna commission tens of thousands of dollars and use our research.

Scott Konopasek:

So then like say thank you and put it off to the side.

Scott Konopasek:

Like you wanna do something about it.

Scott Konopasek:

And so we really pushed the practical value and the

Scott Konopasek:

practical application of this.

Scott Konopasek:

If I learn something about an ad channel or a marketing tactic that

Scott Konopasek:

is, or isn't working, I want to then adjust my ad spend, or maybe it's my

Scott Konopasek:

creative strategy, or maybe it's, how much I'm spending in that channel.

Scott Konopasek:

We always try and push customers to like look at here's the data that I have.

Scott Konopasek:

How can I draw a line between this and a result or an action that I want to take.

Scott Konopasek:

You wanna be able to know at a high level, this is what's working.

Scott Konopasek:

This is the role of this channel, but then more tangibly next month I'm gonna

Scott Konopasek:

do these three things differently because this is what worked better last month.

Scott Konopasek:

And so, you called it, this feedback loop.

Scott Konopasek:

That's exactly what it is.

Scott Konopasek:

It's the, okay, I understand strategically what's happening now.

Scott Konopasek:

I need to apply that practically to my ad spent.

Scott Konopasek:

And so, you know, it's this iterative process, right?

Scott Konopasek:

You might learn something this month that you do something different and

Scott Konopasek:

improves your results by let's call it 3%.

Scott Konopasek:

Well, the next month you're gonna do something else.

Scott Konopasek:

That's gonna improve your results by 5%.

Scott Konopasek:

Wow.

Scott Konopasek:

You got a really big month.

Scott Konopasek:

You improve results by 5%.

Scott Konopasek:

The next month is 2%.

Scott Konopasek:

Well, your result isn't just that two or 3%.

Scott Konopasek:

It's the 3% in month.

Scott Konopasek:

One for every month thereafter.

Scott Konopasek:

It's the 5% every month thereafter.

Scott Konopasek:

And it's the 2% every month thereafter.

Scott Konopasek:

And so this is, you know, literally the exponential gains.

Scott Konopasek:

If you are able to just improve a small amount, every.

Scott Konopasek:

The results that that can have on a business over the course of

Scott Konopasek:

12 months is really astounding.

Scott Konopasek:

And I think people oftentimes underestimate what consistency can do.

Scott Konopasek:

You know, I tell brands all the time, you'd be better served, making a 1%

Scott Konopasek:

improvement, 12 months outta the year than a 3% improvement once every quarter

Scott Konopasek:

and, the ability of this, these results to compound and the learnings that you

Scott Konopasek:

get, are gonna be so much more valuable in we'll call it near real time.

Scott Konopasek:

Right, looking at data from like last month.

Scott Konopasek:

So I could do something differently next month versus like, hey,

Scott Konopasek:

it's now summertime, let me look at my spring results.

Scott Konopasek:

Don't get me wrong.

Scott Konopasek:

There's value there.

Scott Konopasek:

But having this more real time view of what's happening and how your

Scott Konopasek:

marketing is working, is always more.

Kevin Dieny:

The other aspect of that too, is marketing spend is coming

Kevin Dieny:

out of the cash and capital and it's coming out of a place in the business.

Kevin Dieny:

I mentioned this before, like it's coming outta a place in the business.

Kevin Dieny:

The business could literally do anything it wanted with it.

Kevin Dieny:

It could, it could be doing something else with it.

Kevin Dieny:

And so marketing analytics is base is proving to the business.

Kevin Dieny:

Okay.

Kevin Dieny:

The marketing dollars are helping.

Kevin Dieny:

Here's how they're helping.

Kevin Dieny:

But in addition, like you've mentioned it highlights learnings and

Kevin Dieny:

improvements that the company could do to make it even more effecti.

Kevin Dieny:

And the marginal, you know, 1% gain over time.

Kevin Dieny:

Is it compounds?

Kevin Dieny:

It can be such a big deal, for a business.

Kevin Dieny:

With our tools, we like to say, well, what if you just got one more customer?

Kevin Dieny:

Added to your roles every month, one new client every month, what would that,

Kevin Dieny:

well, how would that change your business?

Kevin Dieny:

And if it's just one, right?

Kevin Dieny:

That's like the smallest marginal unit of, of growth there.

Kevin Dieny:

Just one more, what would, what does that mean?

Kevin Dieny:

And they're like, okay, well it's this much value.

Kevin Dieny:

And so we like say, okay, so let's wind back.

Kevin Dieny:

Like how many, if you have one new customer, how many more leads do you need?

Kevin Dieny:

How much more does your ad spend, would it need to increase?

Kevin Dieny:

Well, that's maybe a thousand, couple thousand, maybe it's

Kevin Dieny:

triple digits, it's big numbers.

Kevin Dieny:

And so we say, okay, well, if you just increase the effectiveness of

Kevin Dieny:

your marketing, we're not increasing ad spend a penny, but you're getting

Kevin Dieny:

more out of what you're already doing.

Kevin Dieny:

So I like to look at it like marketing analytics is not

Kevin Dieny:

adding to your marketing spend.

Kevin Dieny:

It's just like charging it, making it more effective, making it more efficient.

Kevin Dieny:

And so in that way, it's a lot more easier for some businesses

Kevin Dieny:

to like swallow that, like that painful pill going down, like okay.

Kevin Dieny:

Because the other problem in marketing is there's a lag effect.

Kevin Dieny:

Like you've mentioned with the real time you spend money today, it might

Kevin Dieny:

take a little while for that to wind up.

Kevin Dieny:

How does marketing analytics, help a business plan and forecast

Kevin Dieny:

and, and try to make decisions today that will impact the future?

Scott Konopasek:

You touched on a couple of like really good things there.

Scott Konopasek:

And, and I just wanna kind of add one of my favorite expressions from John

Scott Konopasek:

Wannamaker the quintessential, I'm wasting half of my money on advertising.

Scott Konopasek:

I just don't know which half.

Scott Konopasek:

And it's like, well, like what if you could, just to your point,

Scott Konopasek:

improve that by a tiny bit.

Scott Konopasek:

What does that do for your business?

Scott Konopasek:

And what does that mean?

Scott Konopasek:

And so, you know, that's.

Scott Konopasek:

That's the approach that people should think about analytics.

Scott Konopasek:

How do I look at everything that's happening and look at the least effective

Scott Konopasek:

things and do less of those and reallocate that spend to the most effective things.

Scott Konopasek:

a lot of people use year over year data, and I think that's a really

Scott Konopasek:

good place for, brands to get started.

Scott Konopasek:

And just, what was I doing last?

Scott Konopasek:

If I had a thousand daily website visitors at my plus or minus this

Scott Konopasek:

year, you always have to kinda take that data with a grain of salt.

Scott Konopasek:

Especially over the last two years, 2022 is nothing like

Scott Konopasek:

2021, which is nothing like 2020.

Scott Konopasek:

We spend a lot of time encouraging clients to, yes, look year over year as a general

Scott Konopasek:

benchmark, but look at your last four.

Scott Konopasek:

Eight weeks of data, maybe even up to your last quarter, but the things that

Scott Konopasek:

we're trending in a good direction over the last four to six weeks are

Scott Konopasek:

probably gonna keep going in that trend.

Scott Konopasek:

If something has been declining, it's probably gonna keep going along that path.

Scott Konopasek:

And so using the data over the last four to six weeks, is

Scott Konopasek:

just a better way to evaluate.

Scott Konopasek:

We work with a number of customers where every month we meet with

Scott Konopasek:

them and we do two things for them.

Scott Konopasek:

We bring them insights about the data that's gathering in our platform and

Scott Konopasek:

the analytics about their ad spend.

Scott Konopasek:

And then we provide them with specific recommendations.

Scott Konopasek:

We'll say we saw some inefficiencies here, or we saw some opportunities there.

Scott Konopasek:

and so the customer is then able to take those.

Scott Konopasek:

And this typically happens like, you know, it's called like the 22nd of the month

Scott Konopasek:

and we're looking at the last six weeks.

Scott Konopasek:

And so they're saying, great, I'm gonna plan my ad budget for the next month.

Scott Konopasek:

Based on these learnings, these are the specific things I can do differently.

Scott Konopasek:

Short term planning is probably the best use case for analytics.

Scott Konopasek:

Certainly you wanna be able to look at your annual plan or your annual budget.

Scott Konopasek:

And the data that, that you have over the course of a year and, forecast

Scott Konopasek:

what you're gonna spend or the channel.

Scott Konopasek:

From a, a practical standpoint, going back to, you know, analytics

Scott Konopasek:

needs action, looking at your last four to six weeks and, and

Scott Konopasek:

saying, what can I do differently?

Scott Konopasek:

Or if I were to copy paste my plan from this month, what tweaks would I make?

Scott Konopasek:

Would I add a little bit more here?

Scott Konopasek:

Would I subtract a little bit more here?

Scott Konopasek:

Would I, you know, focus this campaign on building a higher frequency with users?

Scott Konopasek:

And so, from a planning standpoint, That's that's really where I think

Scott Konopasek:

most brands should, should focus.

Kevin Dieny:

Yeah, no, that's really good.

Kevin Dieny:

And you mentioned, something about data gathering that made me think of something.

Kevin Dieny:

A business, it gets almost too many opportunities.

Kevin Dieny:

Like marketing is an opportunity.

Kevin Dieny:

Selling is an opportunity, maybe a business calls them and they, they take

Kevin Dieny:

it, you know, 99% of the time it's spam.

Kevin Dieny:

So they're like, Ugh, you know, but maybe 1% of those times there's like

Kevin Dieny:

a valuable opportunity in there.

Kevin Dieny:

And that's the reason why they may take those calls is it's hard to

Kevin Dieny:

sort through, I think for a business, all the possible opportunities and

Kevin Dieny:

ways that that business could grow.

Kevin Dieny:

They really have to simplify it down.

Kevin Dieny:

and that means, okay, well, how do I know?

Kevin Dieny:

Like, there might be some clues, right?

Kevin Dieny:

How am I gonna figure out that this is a really good opportunity for

Kevin Dieny:

my business and how can I weed out the stuff that's just not relevant.

Kevin Dieny:

It's not gonna help me.

Kevin Dieny:

It's not helping me get to the goal that I've set and really,

Kevin Dieny:

you know, helping you focus.

Kevin Dieny:

And so it leads me to thinking like, well, a lot of times the

Kevin Dieny:

business is like, look, I'm.

Kevin Dieny:

My, my blinders are on my I'm really focused on, you know,

Kevin Dieny:

my financial sheets right now.

Kevin Dieny:

And I'm looking at my revenue, my expenses and my profit.

Kevin Dieny:

And so it's like, well, if, and if I look over across the way, way over,

Kevin Dieny:

there is all this marketing data.

Kevin Dieny:

And so all that data feels disconnected from my financial information.

Kevin Dieny:

So how does a business make it easier?

Kevin Dieny:

Gathering all that marketing data and actually connecting it to the

Kevin Dieny:

business' goals, aligning them with how a business wants to grow?

Scott Konopasek:

Yeah, this is where the analysis paralysis or like, it can

Scott Konopasek:

just feel really overwhelming, right?

Scott Konopasek:

Like, There's already so much to do.

Scott Konopasek:

I'm a business owner.

Scott Konopasek:

I have to focus on my P and L my unit economics.

Scott Konopasek:

I have this giant expense for marketing.

Scott Konopasek:

Like where do I even get started?

Scott Konopasek:

How on earth do I tie these two things together?

Scott Konopasek:

And for every business owner out there, listening to this,

Scott Konopasek:

hire an expert, like the.

Scott Konopasek:

Look, this is, this is literally the role of, of outsourcing this to somebody.

Scott Konopasek:

If you hire marketing analytics, you know, expert, whether that's a

Scott Konopasek:

platform that offers some tech and offers some consulting services,

Scott Konopasek:

or this is just someone in your local city, town state, who's able

Scott Konopasek:

to do this type of work for you.

Scott Konopasek:

This is where that specialty knowledge comes in.

Scott Konopasek:

They're gonna know exactly where to look.

Scott Konopasek:

They're gonna know exactly how to tie these two things together.

Scott Konopasek:

Marketing is oftentimes seen as an expense, especially by a

Scott Konopasek:

CFO or, or that type of a role.

Scott Konopasek:

And so, the best way to, champion the value of marketing is to dig down into

Scott Konopasek:

what's working and what's not working.

Scott Konopasek:

And so an unfortunate piece of news that a lot of people aren't gonna

Scott Konopasek:

want to hear is that trusting the data that comes out of Facebook and comes

Scott Konopasek:

out of Google and that, you know, is.

Scott Konopasek:

Aggregating and Google analytics.

Scott Konopasek:

That's a good first step, but it's whole, it's, it's incomplete.

Scott Konopasek:

It's not the whole story.

Scott Konopasek:

And if that's all the information that you are using to try and

Scott Konopasek:

inform your marketing, analysis, and like how to optimize, you're

Scott Konopasek:

leaving a lot on the table.

Scott Konopasek:

And so this is really where like a level or a layer of measurement

Scott Konopasek:

technology can really make all the difference in the world.

Scott Konopasek:

Whether it is, tracking your phone calls more accurately with like your

Scott Konopasek:

service, whether it is like adding in a piece of technology that can help feed

Scott Konopasek:

the data back into the ad platforms.

Scott Konopasek:

You can improve the data quality that they have or whether it's, a more full

Scott Konopasek:

on piece of, of marketing analytics, tech that, can de-duplicate your ads

Scott Konopasek:

and your channels and your results, and give you this whole unified view.

Scott Konopasek:

You know that this is really the place for marketing technology.

Scott Konopasek:

So I'm sure that everyone is listening is saying, well, when

Scott Konopasek:

do I need measurement technology?

Scott Konopasek:

How do I know if this is the right time and the right place for me?

Scott Konopasek:

There are a couple of criteria that, that we offer up to, to customers.

Scott Konopasek:

Probably the easiest one for most is if you're spending in three or

Scott Konopasek:

more ad channels, you should have a layer of marketing technology.

Scott Konopasek:

So if you're spending in Facebook in Google and maybe you're doing some, like

Scott Konopasek:

display remarketing, you could consider, a piece of measurement technology.

Scott Konopasek:

Now if you're doing those three things and you're only spending $20,000 a

Scott Konopasek:

month, you probably don't need it.

Scott Konopasek:

So the, the next kind of like level to this is if you're spending about a

Scott Konopasek:

hundred thousand dollars a month, so about a million dollars a year, $1.2

Scott Konopasek:

million a year, that's generally the level where you're spending a good

Scott Konopasek:

amount on, on PPC and cost per click.

Scott Konopasek:

You have some budget in Facebook and you're really starting to wonder

Scott Konopasek:

like, wow, a million dollars a year.

Scott Konopasek:

Like, what else could I be doing with this money?

Scott Konopasek:

Like, and so that's really where getting a 5%.

Scott Konopasek:

Improvement in performance over the course of a year.

Scott Konopasek:

Like if, if annually, all you got outta a piece of measurement,

Scott Konopasek:

technology was 5% gains, right?

Scott Konopasek:

Massive results for the business and like reallocating some of that less effective

Scott Konopasek:

ad spend into other channels or ways of delivering that that's more effective,

Scott Konopasek:

can have some really big results.

Scott Konopasek:

So three ad channels, and then typically about a hundred thousand

Scott Konopasek:

dollars a month in ad spend.

Scott Konopasek:

If you're below, you're probably still in that mode of a dollar

Scott Konopasek:

into a machine spits, $3 out.

Scott Konopasek:

And so, uh, if that's working for you, then, Hey, you don't need it quite yet.

Scott Konopasek:

But as you start growing like that, that'll really make a lot of sense.

Scott Konopasek:

I'll add a second qualifier here.

Scott Konopasek:

We were gonna a handful of brands that are really only spending in

Scott Konopasek:

like Facebook and Google, but they're spending like three to $5 million a year.

Scott Konopasek:

That's also a moment where you would say, Hey, like measurement technology

Scott Konopasek:

could really help me out because again, if you could only improve a

Scott Konopasek:

couple of percentage points on three to 5 million of ad spend, that's huge

Scott Konopasek:

downstream results in terms of new leads, new customers, top line revenue.

Scott Konopasek:

There's different needs and you know, every business is gonna

Scott Konopasek:

be a little bit different.

Scott Konopasek:

But those are generally when you know, you're gonna get the most value

Scott Konopasek:

out of measurement technologies.

Kevin Dieny:

I always picture like a, like a, the cartoon of a prison yard breakout.

Kevin Dieny:

And if your fence has like a hole in it and well, everyone's gonna escape,

Kevin Dieny:

like in marketing analytics, if you're tracking, with a laser, how everything

Kevin Dieny:

is coming in and how your marketing channels are interacting, engaging with

Kevin Dieny:

your leads, turning them into, prospects, and then you hand it over and then

Kevin Dieny:

suddenly there's absolutely no data.

Kevin Dieny:

Well, that's the hole in the prison yard and everyone busts out through there.

Kevin Dieny:

So it.

Kevin Dieny:

Your marketing analytics data is limited the way I always look at it is it's

Kevin Dieny:

always limited by the businesses and ability to track whatever really critical,

Kevin Dieny:

important thing isn't being tracked.

Kevin Dieny:

I always like a first pass assessment, what are the biggest,

Kevin Dieny:

most the biggest success points that are happening in the business?

Kevin Dieny:

And it's usually, well, there's the sale.

Kevin Dieny:

There's the lead, right?

Kevin Dieny:

Just to start there.

Kevin Dieny:

In between those points.

Kevin Dieny:

There's probably quite a bit before that there's a lot.

Kevin Dieny:

So is the business tracking those points where.

Kevin Dieny:

It's very clear.

Kevin Dieny:

It's very accurate that those are happening.

Kevin Dieny:

The tracking or measurement is very accurate, when someone buys, hopefully

Kevin Dieny:

you know, so yeah, so those are, those are really critical points.

Kevin Dieny:

And if you're not measuring those accurately, it makes all

Kevin Dieny:

the effort you've put somewhere else in the marketing analytics.

Kevin Dieny:

It, it's not helping it.

Kevin Dieny:

I would say it's still that maybe valuable to improving how the marketing is doing

Kevin Dieny:

within a channel or within a campaign.

Kevin Dieny:

But when that marketing is still always trying to drive business

Kevin Dieny:

results, if the business isn't able to.

Kevin Dieny:

Connect the dots or put tracking in place for those points.

Kevin Dieny:

There's usually a fall through like our, our technology is with the phone.

Kevin Dieny:

That's, that's just one piece of a very large generally customer

Kevin Dieny:

journey of, you know, how a business interacts and has conversations and

Kevin Dieny:

brings in customers and clients.

Kevin Dieny:

So how, how does a business though assess right where its gaps are using marketing

Kevin Dieny:

analytics, where is like the hole in the fence, in the prison that, you know,

Kevin Dieny:

all the everyone's escaping through.

Scott Konopasek:

Yeah.

Scott Konopasek:

So I typically start by asking what are all the ways that a customer can

Scott Konopasek:

send a signal to your company that they want to give you their money?

Scott Konopasek:

And so that could be a lead that you're gonna follow up with.

Scott Konopasek:

It could be a phone call.

Scott Konopasek:

It could be that they walk into your brick and mortar location.

Scott Konopasek:

It could be that they are initiating a checkout online.

Scott Konopasek:

And so the first step is to make sure that you have a way of accurately

Scott Konopasek:

tracking all of the different signals.

Scott Konopasek:

We recently started working with an automotive brand.

Scott Konopasek:

They're a smaller regional brand.

Scott Konopasek:

They have 10 locations.

Scott Konopasek:

And they use a call tracking service.

Scott Konopasek:

They have, some forms online and a big gap for them is they do these shows and they

Scott Konopasek:

like take their vehicles and they have people show up and they, they spend a lot

Scott Konopasek:

of money driving people to these events.

Scott Konopasek:

They're typically like short term events.

Scott Konopasek:

Part of the reason why we started working is to fill in that gap.

Scott Konopasek:

They didn't have a way of looking at the people who were arriving to

Scott Konopasek:

those locations, understanding if they were influenced by advertising

Scott Konopasek:

and then ultimately being able to connect that to a vehicle sale.

Scott Konopasek:

And so, if you think about all the different signals that a user

Scott Konopasek:

can give you, that they want to give you their money, start by.

Scott Konopasek:

Measuring all of those and chances are, if you are anything besides

Scott Konopasek:

eCommerce, you're gonna have at least two or three different ways.

Scott Konopasek:

There are free tools that can certainly help with some of this stuff.

Scott Konopasek:

As your business starts to scale up and as you start spending, let's say upwards

Scott Konopasek:

of half, a million dollars a year in advertising, that's really where like

Scott Konopasek:

specialty data, specialty providers, measurement technology can, can really

Scott Konopasek:

start to deliver, you know, strong value.

Kevin Dieny:

Yeah, no, I that's a huge example because just as an example

Kevin Dieny:

from, something that happened to our client, our client was spending

Kevin Dieny:

a huge amount of money in, in ads.

Kevin Dieny:

I'd spend.

Kevin Dieny:

They were, they were really being very efficient on that end.

Kevin Dieny:

They were really optimizing it.

Kevin Dieny:

What we found was they only had one number, one line for people to call in on.

Kevin Dieny:

And we found that about 70% of the calls they got, just went into the abyss.

Kevin Dieny:

And so it was painful for them to hear this because it was like, man, we're doing

Kevin Dieny:

so much marketing work on the front end.

Kevin Dieny:

And people are busting, their time and effort, blood, sweat, and tears

Kevin Dieny:

is bringing forward into the front end marketing optimization of this.

Kevin Dieny:

We're passing everything over, but at one point there's this

Kevin Dieny:

critical phone call that has to be.

Kevin Dieny:

and because there was nothing to tell them that they weren't coming in.

Kevin Dieny:

They just assumed, you know, there's this huge drop off right there.

Kevin Dieny:

And so the marketing was working with that and they were trying to optimize for that.

Kevin Dieny:

It turned out that if someone called between 11 and 12, when the person

Kevin Dieny:

was on lunch, There, there was no, people weren't getting through.

Kevin Dieny:

It also turned out that if marketing sent a bunch of stuff all at once, the busy

Kevin Dieny:

line came and then people weren't calling back after trying two or three times.

Kevin Dieny:

So it didn't have anything to do with marketing and marketing.

Kevin Dieny:

Didn't really want to look farther down the funnel into the operational,

Kevin Dieny:

you know, how is this going?

Kevin Dieny:

But when we came in and showed them just a few things, they're immediately

Kevin Dieny:

like marketing is gonna be involved and seeing sort of the life cycle now.

Kevin Dieny:

Right?

Kevin Dieny:

Like the whole.

Kevin Dieny:

And for this client, it was like day two.

Kevin Dieny:

They didn't have hardly any, if any dropped missed calls.

Kevin Dieny:

So like they were almost tripling doubling their leads to calls.

Kevin Dieny:

So it, and it was just a like moment like, wow, this was happening.

Kevin Dieny:

And so that was a quick win type of scenario where we felt like,

Kevin Dieny:

we're, you know, saviors of the day, something I could like talk about,

Kevin Dieny:

but, but generally speaking, marketing analytics can come in the form of.

Kevin Dieny:

Hey, here's something that, may be a little off, you know, it might be

Kevin Dieny:

harder to decipher harder to figure out.

Kevin Dieny:

And so that expert, I think, does come, come into play.

Kevin Dieny:

But at the end of the day, like whoever's making the decision

Kevin Dieny:

needs to have that information.

Kevin Dieny:

So with all the charts, with all the data, with all the forms, all the marketing

Kevin Dieny:

analytics takes, what is, what are some really good ways that marketing analytics

Kevin Dieny:

can be communicated to the business?

Kevin Dieny:

In a way that leads to, you know, decisions being made that leads to it

Kevin Dieny:

being acted upon that's gonna lead to it.

Kevin Dieny:

Being able to be improved, to get the, one to 5%, types of goals that a

Kevin Dieny:

business wants to use, analytics for.

Kevin Dieny:

So how does it, how does that, how does communication become more effective?

Scott Konopasek:

Whenever a brand is picking up an analytics program for the

Scott Konopasek:

first time, whether that's with a piece of technology or whether that's like

Scott Konopasek:

an internal hire or, dedicated effort.

Scott Konopasek:

There's usually a lot of panic and there's usually a lot of fear.

Scott Konopasek:

And, people have been looking at a cost per click and suddenly saying, well,

Scott Konopasek:

we're not gonna measure a cost per click.

Scott Konopasek:

We're gonna measure on a cost per lead, or we've been measuring on a cost per lead.

Scott Konopasek:

But actually we have this new piece of technology that's going to connect leads

Scott Konopasek:

to paying customers, and we're gonna evaluate on the cost of a customer.

Scott Konopasek:

You know, that just that disrupts workflows there's new charts, new tables.

Scott Konopasek:

And so it's, it tends to be a pretty big effort to like, get the department

Scott Konopasek:

on board, executive leadership or, owners championing this and, and,

Scott Konopasek:

showing enthusiasm, look, most people don't care about analytics.

Scott Konopasek:

Most people don't like data, but it's mission critical for

Scott Konopasek:

the leadership, whether that's a director or the owner or the founder.

Scott Konopasek:

To, show how important this is and to, help make this an organizational priority.

Scott Konopasek:

That's a really big part of the like, I'll call it getting started phase.

Scott Konopasek:

Part of this getting started phase is also.

Scott Konopasek:

Laying out, what are the things that we are going to measure and what are the

Scott Konopasek:

things that we're going to care about?

Scott Konopasek:

So this is the cost per click to a lead, or instead of measuring the

Scott Konopasek:

lead, or maybe we're gonna measure a lead, but we're really gonna evaluate

Scott Konopasek:

everything on a cost of a customer acquisition, or maybe we're gonna move

Scott Konopasek:

away from like average order value.

Scott Konopasek:

And we're gonna focus on profit, right?

Scott Konopasek:

There's like all kinds of different ways to level up.

Scott Konopasek:

And so developing an upfront measurement plan.

Scott Konopasek:

Probably the best way to lay the table for everybody.

Scott Konopasek:

I know this is probably not what other people want to hear again, but like,

Scott Konopasek:

this is where an expert comes in, right?

Scott Konopasek:

If you're the owner and you're trying to pick up the, the analytics hat,

Scott Konopasek:

you can, based off of some suggestions and some articles, and listicals

Scott Konopasek:

like, come up with a couple of ideas, but an analyst is gonna come in

Scott Konopasek:

and, and be able to do some of this.

Scott Konopasek:

At a better level.

Scott Konopasek:

So lay the foundation.

Scott Konopasek:

I think once you begin a program and you have a measurement plan in place,

Scott Konopasek:

um, the next thing that I like to do is start with the objective facts, right?

Scott Konopasek:

People are gonna be a little bit nervous.

Scott Konopasek:

Work is gonna be changing.

Scott Konopasek:

The things that, you know, the marketer was graded on and they

Scott Konopasek:

were like doing a good job.

Scott Konopasek:

Are going to be changing and things might not look so good.

Scott Konopasek:

So like let's, let's lay the facts, the objective facts on the table.

Scott Konopasek:

And, it's important that everybody, whether that's the owner or the marketer,

Scott Konopasek:

or, anybody else involved, is able to remove some of their emotion from this.

Scott Konopasek:

And so I really like to start with customer journeys and,

Scott Konopasek:

I always ask the question.

Scott Konopasek:

How do you know how to deliver your ads effectively?

Scott Konopasek:

If you don't know how long it takes to sell your product?

Scott Konopasek:

Well, like if I have a two week sales cycle, that's a very different way

Scott Konopasek:

of delivering my ads than if I have a 30 day sales cycle or a 60 day sales

Scott Konopasek:

cycle, if the needs of the business and the needs of the ads are fundamentally

Scott Konopasek:

different in each of those scenarios.

Scott Konopasek:

And so that's typically where I, I like to get started.

Scott Konopasek:

Here's how customers are currently coming into the website.

Scott Konopasek:

It takes, uh, 15 ads on average over the course of nine days.

Scott Konopasek:

Oh wow.

Scott Konopasek:

Okay.

Scott Konopasek:

And people, when they're here, they visit these number of pages

Scott Konopasek:

and then here's the percentage of people that convert on a first visit.

Scott Konopasek:

And then here's how many people leave.

Scott Konopasek:

Okay.

Scott Konopasek:

Well, when the people leave, how long does it take them to come back?

Scott Konopasek:

How many ads does it take to get them to come.

Scott Konopasek:

And suddenly you begin to form this picture of like,

Scott Konopasek:

oh, well, there's two parts.

Scott Konopasek:

I need to get people interested, bring them in.

Scott Konopasek:

I'm gonna convert a small percentage of those of my first visit.

Scott Konopasek:

But then for everybody else, I now know how many more days it's going to take.

Scott Konopasek:

So you might get that first visit in nine days.

Scott Konopasek:

People might come back in two days, right?

Scott Konopasek:

You have an 11 day sales cycle on average, or it might take them an additional nine

Scott Konopasek:

days and you have an 18 day sales cycle.

Scott Konopasek:

But it's gonna be really difficult to deliver your ad campaigns effectively

Scott Konopasek:

if you don't have that fundamental understanding of that buying cycle.

Scott Konopasek:

And, my experience with Google analytics and, and similar tools is

Scott Konopasek:

that that data's just not available.

Scott Konopasek:

So.

Scott Konopasek:

Again, this is where I would, I would champion for a piece of technology to

Scott Konopasek:

come in and give some of these insights.

Scott Konopasek:

As you are beginning to lay the foundation and show some of these like empirical

Scott Konopasek:

facts of like, this is how customers are currently interacting with things,

Scott Konopasek:

then you can begin to say, great.

Scott Konopasek:

How can we optimize for this?

Scott Konopasek:

And, I use the expression focus on what's right.

Scott Konopasek:

Not who's right.

Scott Konopasek:

So, okay, well maybe we find that 98% of people are leaving the website and

Scott Konopasek:

they're doing that within 30 seconds.

Scott Konopasek:

Okay.

Scott Konopasek:

Well, let's figure out how to optimize that landing page a little bit.

Scott Konopasek:

Maybe we drive them to a different page.

Scott Konopasek:

Maybe we make some content changes or we might find that we have, a ton of

Scott Konopasek:

people coming into the site and they come back multiple times, but it takes,

Scott Konopasek:

'em a really long time to purchase.

Scott Konopasek:

Maybe takes them four or five site visits before they're ready to purchase.

Scott Konopasek:

Okay.

Scott Konopasek:

Well then, like how do we adjust the ad campaigns to, account for this behavior?

Scott Konopasek:

Well, I would infer from something like that, that there's probably

Scott Konopasek:

a lot of research going on.

Scott Konopasek:

This person is considering your brand, considering your product.

Scott Konopasek:

They're probably doing competitive research, probably have a tab

Scott Konopasek:

open of your top five competitors.

Scott Konopasek:

And they're trying to understand why they should buy from you.

Scott Konopasek:

Great.

Scott Konopasek:

Well, all of a sudden with that, you can begin to say, wow, well, what if

Scott Konopasek:

we did some more educational content?

Scott Konopasek:

What if we did a competitive comparison page?

Scott Konopasek:

What if we did an FAQ that just told people why we're the, you know,

Scott Konopasek:

most awesome product on the market?

Scott Konopasek:

And so, um, There's certainly like the, the paid side of things and

Scott Konopasek:

understanding what, how many ads over what time period what's most

Scott Konopasek:

effective and what's not, but there's so much more around this that begins

Scott Konopasek:

to affect other parts of the business.

Scott Konopasek:

So, you know, to kind of bring this back to what you had asked earlier

Scott Konopasek:

about like, You have your P and L and you're looking at your profits

Scott Konopasek:

and all those, those metrics and marketing analytics feel separate.

Scott Konopasek:

This is a great way to bridge that together.

Scott Konopasek:

And so the marketing analytics, isn't just about what the paid advertising is doing.

Scott Konopasek:

It's about how users are engaging with the website, how paid advertising is

Scott Konopasek:

influencing that and the arrest of the experience that goes into somebody

Scott Konopasek:

being ready to purchase your product.

Kevin Dieny:

Yeah, well, I've, I've got a great example for this,

Kevin Dieny:

which was like, I had a room with sales support marketing leaders.

Kevin Dieny:

I had financial, I had the whole leadership in there and

Kevin Dieny:

we had presented quite a lot of data and I was like, Feeling.

Kevin Dieny:

Mm.

Kevin Dieny:

I don't know if they're translating this data into, you know, the business

Kevin Dieny:

results that they're all, accountable for.

Kevin Dieny:

And I don't think it's really hitting where like, as hard as I want it to.

Kevin Dieny:

So I just summarized it into like a one liner.

Kevin Dieny:

I was like, look, every time we get 11 visits to this page, we probably

Kevin Dieny:

are gonna bring in a new lead.

Kevin Dieny:

And so I was like, so I asked them, okay, and this is just very

Kevin Dieny:

generalized saying this, but.

Kevin Dieny:

Okay.

Kevin Dieny:

If we need 11 visits to the site, how can all these, how can

Kevin Dieny:

everyone here help us get 11?

Kevin Dieny:

Like one per how can we bringing someone back or bring

Kevin Dieny:

someone to the site 11 times?

Kevin Dieny:

And the sales team was like, well, we could call them and

Kevin Dieny:

we can send them an email.

Kevin Dieny:

And support's like, yeah, we could probably do that with current clients.

Kevin Dieny:

And marketing was like, well, we're gonna do this, this and this.

Kevin Dieny:

And we tallied it up and it was like nine.

Kevin Dieny:

So we were like, why can we get two more and then everyone was working together.

Kevin Dieny:

So I think sometimes.

Kevin Dieny:

Like you've mentioned, like you you've identified the

Kevin Dieny:

problem almost like present.

Kevin Dieny:

Here's the problem.

Kevin Dieny:

Here's the question we're trying to solve.

Kevin Dieny:

Working analytics is so good at taking those questions and being

Kevin Dieny:

able to give you so much insight.

Kevin Dieny:

And then once you have that, if you can, again, frame it around.

Kevin Dieny:

Okay, well, how can we work together to, solve this problem?

Kevin Dieny:

It might be a marketing only world where marketing analytics is serving marketing

Kevin Dieny:

and, that's where the data's ending up.

Kevin Dieny:

But if it's also allowed to help the rest of the organization,

Kevin Dieny:

there's some learnings there.

Kevin Dieny:

Sometimes it's like, Hey, this page is seeing a lot of traffic

Kevin Dieny:

and sales is like, wow, really?

Kevin Dieny:

That's interesting.

Kevin Dieny:

I've been telling everyone about that page and okay, well maybe

Kevin Dieny:

that's where it's coming from.

Kevin Dieny:

And everyone gets that.

Kevin Dieny:

It's like a shared knowledge becomes so valuable.

Kevin Dieny:

Was there anything else about this topic Scott, you wanted to mention,

Kevin Dieny:

that we haven't talked about yet or anything you wanted to reemphasize

Kevin Dieny:

that was really important to you?

Scott Konopasek:

Yeah, so I think to, to wrap things up, I, I wanna offer

Scott Konopasek:

what I'm gonna call, like some, some really core things that the marketers,

Scott Konopasek:

the business owners can do that can help set you on, on the right track.

Scott Konopasek:

Probably the first thing is to.

Scott Konopasek:

Evaluate do you need measurement technology?

Scott Konopasek:

Are you at a place where you can benefit from it?

Scott Konopasek:

We talked about the criteria being roughly three ad channels

Scott Konopasek:

and a hundred thousand dollars in spend a month or two ad channels.

Scott Konopasek:

If you're doing, north of two or $3 million a year, who's gonna

Scott Konopasek:

own that internally and, deciding what level of priority is this?

Scott Konopasek:

How are we going to, integrate this into our workflows, and getting

Scott Konopasek:

really the, the support and the vocal support of leadership to

Scott Konopasek:

the rest of the organization.

Scott Konopasek:

And then the last practical step is develop a plan,

Scott Konopasek:

develop a measurement plan.

Scott Konopasek:

And so if you are lacking the expertise and the knowledge yourself to do that,

Scott Konopasek:

if your marketing team doesn't feel very confident, being able to do that, this

Scott Konopasek:

is a service that mint measure does.

Scott Konopasek:

We do that for no cost, no obligation.

Scott Konopasek:

Feel free to send us a request on our website.

Scott Konopasek:

We'll develop this plan for you.

Scott Konopasek:

And if you're not in a place where you can benefit from our

Scott Konopasek:

technology, that's totally fine.

Scott Konopasek:

We'll, we'll develop a marketing plan or a measurement plan for you

Scott Konopasek:

anyways, and set you on your way.

Scott Konopasek:

And so, you know, these are really the core things that I would suggest

Scott Konopasek:

that every business really do.

Scott Konopasek:

And then your marketing plan or your measurement.

Scott Konopasek:

Is gonna lay that foundation and stay close to your data.

Scott Konopasek:

It's more important to review it once a month and really spend a couple

Scott Konopasek:

of hours doing that than it is to, deep dive on it once a quarter.

Scott Konopasek:

If you can do those things and, and have a plan of action, stay close to the data.

Scott Konopasek:

When you make those adjustments and something goes terribly well or

Scott Konopasek:

terribly wrong, you'll, you'll be able to understand where that came from.

Scott Konopasek:

Ultimately be able to get better and smarter over.

Kevin Dieny:

That's great.

Kevin Dieny:

Those are some really cool, almost like quick steps you could take in

Kevin Dieny:

the immediate future to assess okay.

Kevin Dieny:

Where, where where's my business at and how maybe what are some ideas for,

Kevin Dieny:

buttoning up my tracking and measurement.

Kevin Dieny:

So Scott, if anyone wants to reach out to you, connect with you, find more

Kevin Dieny:

about and measure, or just anything else that you're about, how can they.

Scott Konopasek:

You can find us at mintmeasure.com.

Scott Konopasek:

If you search Google for Mint Measure, we're the top result.

Kevin Dieny:

Okay, that's great.

Kevin Dieny:

Thank you again, Scott, for coming on and talking about helping businesses.

Kevin Dieny:

To help them understand, get more confident and ultimately to improve their

Kevin Dieny:

marketing with some marketing analytics, making marketing analytics easier.

Kevin Dieny:

So I really appreciate you, you taking the time and sharing everything you've

Kevin Dieny:

got and telling us about, avenues your company has for helping businesses

Kevin Dieny:

and just sharing all this wisdom.

Kevin Dieny:

So appreciate your time today.

Scott Konopasek:

Yeah, absolutely.

Scott Konopasek:

Uh, happy to do this.

Kevin Dieny:

And thanks everybody for listening to the Close the Loop podcast.

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