Andra tells us about her entry into the world of blockchain after having to drop out of her Economics degree at UC Berkeley to avoid family bankruptcy.

Andra then started her own commodities trading business, worked in Silicon Valley and moved to London where she began her work in blockchain.

We also hear about what makes Andra tick outside of work. Her failures, realisations and advice. Plus our favourite part of BWB Extra - the Business vs. Bullshit Quickfire Round!

Andra’s recommendations:

Bankless (podcast)

messari.io (crypto new aggregator)

www.theblock.co 

www.shefi.org

BWB is powered by Oury Clark.

Hello and welcome to Bwb Extra where we get to know Andrew Ola, head of business development and Strategy at Origin Protocol a little better after having to drop out of her economics degree at Barclay to avoid family bankruptcy.

Andrew went on to start her own commodities trading business, then worked in Silicon Valley.

And eventually moved to London where she began her work in crypto and blockchain.

We also hear about what makes Andra tick outside of work, her failures, realizations, and all round sound advice.

So let's start by winding the clock back and talk about how you ended up doing.

What you now do.

Yeah.

So, um, it was a complete accident, serendipity, whatever you wanna call it.

Let's maybe start with my, my career journey.

So, um, I actually dropped outta university.

I was, uh, studying economics at Berkeley, three and a half years.

But then the financial crash in 2008, 2010 happened.

Uh, and, uh, University of America is incredibly expensive.

And so, but you'd almost got to the end three and a half years.

I know it, it's one of those tough choices.

It's like, do I run my family savings into the ground or, uh, do I just drop out and figure it out?

Um, I chose not to live with the guilt.

Uh, so, uh, I, uh, dropped out, but it, it doesn't matter.

I took a couple of years off to try to figure it out.

Uh, like I said, I did start a commodity trading company shortly after, uh, which of course, I didn't know it was going to end up where it did, but the idea was I want to do something of my own.

I was digitally native.

Spoke foreign languages, uh, and I understood business and, uh, that's how I sort of started building that from scratch.

A couple years in, I decided I did not enjoy that particular field, mostly because of a, it was a lot of old white men telling me that I'm young and incompetent, even though I was doing that.

How nice.

Well, uh, yeah.

Very, very sweet of them and, uh, leave us old white men alone.

I'm not sure you're technically old yet, ma'am.

Yeah.

But, um, yeah, I decided that, um, You know, Silicon Valley was more interesting.

It was a, a younger crowd, right?

It was, uh, something that I was like, oh, the, it it's a cool industry.

I can relate, I can, you know, learn a lot.

It's moving fast.

So I got back into tech a couple years in, that was in Silicon Valley.

Um, I actually moved to London, so I, I discovered crypto in London of all places.

Uh, I moved to London and I was trying to decide if, uh, do I work, uh, for an established company, like, I dunno, Google, apple, you name it, and have, you know, uh, stability in my life or do I stay in the innovative?

Space and I'll find one of these cool ster startups, uh, and, and go there.

So I, I ended up with the ladder and I found my first, uh, blockchain company at, uh, at a Barclays, a Rise co-working space in London.

Oh yeah.

In shortage.

Do you have a long-term goal, do you think?

I mean, I have personal goals and then I have goals, uh, that I want to accomplish through, uh, the work that I'm doing.

Uh, my goal is to really, um, like I said, improve even 1% the the world of finance.

If I can do that, then that would be, um, you know, I would consider myself accomplished in my work.

How does your business particularly, Deal with the issue of climate change?

Are you doing anything to kind of solve it?

Yeah, so not directly because we're just a super tiny startup.

Um, we don't have enough, uh, funds or resources to do anything about it.

But as far as climate goes, first of all we're eliminating, uh, paper cash, right?

So that in itself is a way of saving trees, which we know are pretty important.

The other one is, uh, the choice of.

Technology that you choose to build on top of.

Um, and there are blockchains out there that are incredibly bad for the environment.

Um, but we choose not to build on that and build on the one that is the most sustainable.

Um, and that is our way of, um, helping reduce our footprint.

Do you think that will be the, ultimately the, the, the, the downfall of Bitcoin?

You know, people say all this, lots of energy and it's causing positive things, but.

I mean, and some people say the whole point of its value is because it is this sort of fragile, like one oh network and it will sort of hold its value.

What, what, what do you think, do you think, do you think the energy use will bring it down in the end?

I, I, I, I don't think it's gonna be the energy use, but I think it goes back to a conversation we were having earlier about the force of good and the force of bad.

Uh, and unfortunately in this particular scenario, uh, Are you asking me if the environmentalists are gonna win in front of like, greedy institutions that are going to want Bitcoin for whatever reason?

I feel like you're gonna say no.

Yeah, so I'm, I'm gonna leave that one there, but, um, Yeah, I, I don't think it's gonna be those reasons that are gonna bring Bitcoin down.

I think it's just the, the economics and the architecture long term that are not sustainable for Bitcoin.

When you look at like, rewards for mining, which are gonna go down now why would I mine and implicitly hurt the environment when the rewards are just not that great?

Uh, you know, uh, in the long term.

You said that you would.

Save trees by not bringing paper.

I mean, hey, I dunno how much of the world's paper is made up of bank notes.

Not that much these days.

I can't seem to find a cash machine bloody anywhere, can you?

It's a fucking nightmare.

So there's one in the RAC club.

I just, last night, I think it's the coming like that, isn't it?

It's like, oh listen, John, I found a cash machine.

It's one behind you.

Go behind this fence.

No one's fucking note.

You know, they're just nowhere.

But surely there'll be less demand for papers to actually less trees.

You know?

So the, the paper thing's a bit of a, a moot point to be fed.

T anything.

Yes, that's just a starting point.

But there is additional benefits.

For example, crypto companies don't typically have offices.

Now we can debate whether office buildings are energy consuming in general.

Right.

And then also, uh, traffic, like if you, I mean America, in America, everyone drives, right?

Like how much pollution is that adding, uh, into the space?

But with us, we just get online from anywhere, all corners of the world, and we just.

Connect, um, asynchronously.

So that in itself, for one company like mine of 35 people is probably not gonna make a difference.

But if every company in the world became remote and we no longer have these huge traffic lines and we no longer have huge energy consuming, consuming, uh, buildings.

And you said you, you actively look at the kind of blockchain you are using, et cetera to use, use ones that are.

More environmentally friendly.

Yeah, we have a, there's different chains, right?

So you have Bitcoin, which was the og, everyone knows about it.

Then you have Ethereum, and then you have all these newer ones.

And Ethereum is one that is also constantly improving its architecture in order to become more environmentally friendly as well.

Um, so there was recently a shift to something called proof of stake, but that in itself is, is an effort to try to be as, um, ethical as possible.

Is there anything you feel you've really fucked up in your career?

Oh, tons.

Yeah.

Just, uh, wasting too much time on, on wrong opportunities.

I think, uh, if there is such a thing, everything has a lesson and it What was the, what was the, what was the worst opportunity you wasted your time on?

I, I think it was just the time spent between dropping out of college and, uh, starting my work in Silicon Valley that was just kind of like more, I was in survival mode rather than actually making decisions because I wanted to.

But how old were you?

Don't ask Peter.

You can't ask me for that.

Not now.

Now, obviously.

Well, obviously you must be 16 or something, you know, it's like, uh, no, no, no.

It was, uh, early, mid twenties.

So yeah, it felt like those are the most important years.

Of your life just speaking in, in like Fre, you wanna have fun, you wanna, yeah, you went to Berkeley and stuff.

You're from, you're a very driven person.

I mean, you know, give yourself a break.

You know, most of us are 38 thinking, what the fuck am I doing with my life?

You know, I only ended up an accountant cause I wasn't given an auction, you know?

But also your mid twenties are that period where you like, I think everybody looks back on it and went and thinks, what the fuck was I doing?

Why didn't I?

You know, just get sorted basically.

Well, yeah, some people know exactly what they were doing.

Because you don't have iPhone photos.

You don't have iPhone photos.

No.

You don't have the iPhone photos to look back.

And you, I look back at the last few years and I can't believe when it happened.

When I look at the date and I'm looking at, sometimes it feels age as it goes sometimes, you know, and it's mind blowing.

And I'm like, I'll remember.

I don't remember any.

Oh my God.

Do you remember that?

And then we went, so actually we just, it just dies, doesn't it?

Like 2008.

Boom.

That's it.

No information.

We're back to Polaroids.

What's your passion outside of business?

Oh, I, um, I'm very into, uh, wellness and health.

I don't just mean, uh, I go to the gym.

I mean, that's, that's a basic one, but I, uh, I follow things like, um, even the spirituality, like mindfulness and meditation.

I also do.

Things at a micro level.

For example, I have regular blood work to see how are my nutrients level, should I supplement it?

So should I change my diet?

Uh, I do, for example, infrared light therapy.

Uh, I get into oxygen chambers, all these things that, oh, are you doing any microdosing?

Have you gone that far?

Uh, that, that was back in Silicon Valley that was popular, you know, a couple years ago, but not anymore.

Somebody told me to do some meditation a while ago, so I put, I, I like lay flat and they put the thing on and it said, imagine you can feel your toes in a particular way and then your legs.

And after about three minutes I was like, I am going to kill something.

This is the most annoying thing I've ever.

Well, depends, you've gotta get the voice right.

They're not, I'm not good.

No offense.

Sorry, I know you're not America, but I'm not good when it's like, yeah, you got the.

Hi.

Now the Californian, you gotta get the voice right.

You know, I mean, I think maybe if it was Mr T doing it, it might be quite amusing.

Barry White, Hey, suck up.

You gonna pull your shit together?

You gonna sit down you little brief.

That would be great.

That would be my fun.

Yeah, no, I think Barry White is, Barry White would be fantastic, wouldn't he?

Or, um, Earl.

Uh, Earl Jones.

Uh, you know, DARFA a bit scary though, but you do what he says, wouldn't you?

I am your father.

Business without bullshit is brought to you by, Ari Clark straight talking financial and legal advice since 1935.

You can find us@ariclark.com.

What's the worst advice you've ever been given?

I would say, uh, anything that has to do with control.

You know, when they say, don't worry about things you can't control or just let it happen.

Anything of the sword, I always found your just worry about things you can't control.

It's not the worrying part, it's the control part.

Yeah.

That I have a problem with.

I feel like you have a lot more control on the outcome of.

Things and people think you do, uh, or they, they tell you, you do.

So I spent a lot of time just like, oh, I'm not going to try to take control of the situation, but it's actually when I took control, I was able to dictate the outcome.

So that's something that I struggle with a lot.

Hey, yeah, explain that a little bit better.

So don't, don't worry about things you can't control, and you are saying no, don't worry about.

Just fucking control them.

I can control everything, not everything.

That's obviously the toxic extreme, right?

That's type A when you just like try to take control of everything.

But let's take, um, so let's, let's think of like the fundraise where I raised 150 million, right?

And I did get a lot of advice, but obviously it got stressful beyond, uh, measure right points, the hardest things you can do in business, and that's a huge sum to raise.

But, you know, maybe that it's just as hard as 150 grand.

That's the truth.

You know, that's true in a way, you know, but then, You will get advice that say, you know, when you're having a, a rough day, oh, don't worry about it.

Like it's gonna be what it's whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen.

Like, don't try to stress out, can't control it, et cetera.

Ah.

And I'm like, when people tell you, relax, it'll be all right.

That's bullshit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's like, hold on.

But I feel like if I send this additional piece of information, or if I jump on an extra call to try to like explain further, or if I do this, if I make this one document that's going to have whatever outcome, Then that's me kind of taking control of the situation and I feel like that actually ultimately led to success.

So, um, so I'm just like a little bit wary of everyone that tells you to relax too much, but take everything with a grain of salt.

Obviously don't like die of stress.

That is the extreme.

Ideally not middle ground.

Don't.

No, it's true.

I don't quite believe you make your own luck.

I think there is a thing called luck.

I mean, it really is.

You know, but I think if you don't work hard, which is really what you, if you are not gonna put in the time that if you put in the time, then that'll create opportunity and your skill.

Are you actually American?

Am I Amer, do I an American?

The whole American dream, God, if you want it enough, you can have it anyway.

What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Follow your instincts.

I definitely believe that decisions that I've, uh, slept on and took my time thinking about and, you know, taking, uh, being, uh, deep with my research on the topic did not turn out that great.

But the ones that I made on the.

Spot.

Just like my using my instincts were always the best ones.

Oh, wow.

The other way around.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Everyone's about like, oh, being data driven and thinking, sleeping on it, whatever.

But for me it's really instinct driven.

If something doesn't, uh, feel good, smell good, look good, I just don't, don't do it.

What advice would you give to your younger self?

Network more.

Uh, I definitely was an introvert.

Uh, and, uh, yeah, I, I did not like people.

I did not like, uh, networking.

I did not like talking.

You network.

I didn't like socially.

It's horrible networking.

Nobody likes networking.

Americans are really good at it too.

Partly, you probably went moved from European culture to American culture.

When everyone is like, they learn it at school.

I've hung out with school kids.

It's like, hi, my name is Andrew.

R I do da, da da da.

And I grew up and they tell you like a little anecdote.

They, they have this speech and you're like, Great, thanks.

What the fuck?

And then they ask you to go and you are like me.

Like what?

Like, you know, and that's how I think that's because British people in general tend to be self-deprecating.

It's just you can't help it.

Like you make a, I think Roman yourself too, don't you?

You guys are some hum.

I know a few Romanians.

I mean, I get called depressed all the time.

They're like, what's with your dark humor?

Is it even humor?

Humor?

Or do you need to see a therapist?

I'm like, you don't get it.

It's sarcasm.

Don't worry about it.

Any recommendations to read, watch, listen, check out.

There's a ton of resources in crypto.

Uh, you have to learn how to dig through the bullshit, but I would stick with the main publication.

So, uh, I would go to something like, Maari is a great place to find in-depth reports and analysis.

And How'd you spell that?

Maari?

Yeah.

M E s s a R I.

Um, then there's another one called The Block that also has a lot of, uh, articles, information, news, et cetera.

Then there's podcasts like, uh, Bankless, for example, that you could listen to.

Uh, for women that are interested in crypto, there's something called she, i s like she underscore fi, uh, meaning that they teach about decentralized finance.

They can't do He ffi.

He ffi though.

That's high-fi, isn't it?

Oh no.

He ffi.

He ffi.

Fuck I want, he ffi.

So that brings us to the favorite part of the show, the end of the show.

Um, thanks Andrew.

You've been great.

This is the business versus bullshit.

Quick, far round.

Uh, we are gonna say some things and you need to tell us whether you think they're business or bullshit.

You can also say bullshit if you want.

Okay.

You ready already?

Mm-hmm.

Let's go.

Um, asking favors business MBAs, bullshit, hot desking.

Bullshit.

Breakfast meetings, business working hours, bullshit going viral, bullshit.

Team outings, business, nice things.

Thanks.

Do you have any crypto think tanks?

There's some, there must be some crypto think tanks.

People thinking about crypto in a tank, n not in crypto, but in silicon.

We had a lot of those.

Did you?

Yeah.

Good.

NFTs business.

Oh, she's not, shit.

That said bullshit.

Ah, bullshit.

Flexible working business.

Uh, business plans, business, universal income business, and uh, finally we discussed it earlier.

Michael does sing bullshit and congrat well done.

You've got 1,022 points.

It was extremely good.

So that was this week's episode of Bwb Extra, and we'll be back with a new episode next Tuesday.