Andreas Brockmann of United Grinding built an apprenticeship program that now gets 400 applicants for 5 spots — and it starts apprentices with hand tools, not machines.

Three years ago, United Grinding had 15 candidates for 4 apprenticeship positions. This year, they had over 400 applicants for 5 spots. Andreas Brockmann, the Apprenticeship Coordinator who built the program from scratch, says the shift didn't come from a hiring gimmick — it came from treating apprentices like real employees from day one: full benefits, a $19.50 starting wage, 15 days of vacation, and a four-year path to becoming a mechatronic technician.

Andreas reached out to Andrew after disagreeing with a LinkedIn post, making a simple but pointed argument: an 18-year-old can't walk into industry already knowing how to be a professional — companies have a responsibility to develop them. That conversation became this episode. Andreas unpacks exactly how United Grinding recruits, trains, and mentors apprentices in Miamisburg, Ohio — from six months on hand tools before anyone touches a machine, to bringing parents into the very first interview, to why CEO buy-in makes or breaks the whole thing.

This episode is for manufacturing leaders, HR and workforce development professionals, and trades employers who keep saying "young people don't want to work" — and are ready to hear a different explanation, and a real blueprint for fixing it.

IN THIS EPISODE

(00:00) – Meet Andreas Brockmann: Why a LinkedIn disagreement turned into this conversation about who's really responsible for developing young talent.

(02:00) – The 10% rule: Why United Grinding dedicates roughly 10% of its workforce to apprentices, and what that investment actually returns.

(09:00) – From 15 candidates to 400: How the program grew every year since it launched three years ago.

(10:00) – Hand tools before machines: Why apprentices spend six months on a workbench with files and chisels before they ever touch a drill press or CNC machine.

(15:00) – Getting the whole company bought in: Why apprenticeship programs die without the CEO "200% behind it," and how United Grinding builds and vets mentors.

(29:00) – Bringing parents into the process — and why Andreas believes the skilled trades talent gap is "our fault, not theirs."

Key Takeaways

Companies, not young workers, are responsible for closing the skilled trades talent gap — and treating apprentices like full employees from day one changes who applies and who stays.

Apprenticeship programs only survive difficult years if the CEO and leadership are fully bought in from the start; programs get cut first when budgets tighten, and that's the worst time to cut them.

Starting apprentices on hand tools for six months before machines builds fundamentals, patience, and pride in the work before productivity even becomes the goal.

Bringing parents and family into the recruiting process — not just the applicant — builds the home support system that determines whether an apprentice actually finishes the program.

About the Guest

Andreas Brockmann is the Apprenticeship Coordinator at United Grinding North America in Miamisburg, Ohio, where he built the company's four-year apprenticeship program from the ground up. An engineer by training with decades of manufacturing and workforce development experience, Andreas has grown the program from 15 applicants for 4 positions to over 400 applicants for 5 spots in just three years.

He works directly with local high schools, career centers, and even middle schools to build a talent pipeline for precision manufacturing careers, and regularly collaborates with other Ohio manufacturers on workforce-sharing and apprenticeship best practices.

Keywords

apprenticeship program, skilled trades apprenticeship, manufacturing apprenticeship, mechatronics technician, CNC apprenticeship, workforce development, Gen Z in the trades, apprentice mentorship, career pathways in manufacturing, tuition reimbursement, Andreas Brockmann, United Grinding, United Grinding North America, Miamisburg Ohio, manufacturing careers, industry 4.0, workforce shortage

RESOURCE LINKS

Andreas Brockmann on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreasbrockmann/

United Grinding Apprenticeship Program: https://www.grinding.com/en/about-us/our-team/apprenticeship-program/

WORK WITH ANDREW

Keynotes, workshops, podcast activations, and workforce storytelling for the skilled trades.

andrewbrownspeaker.com

Hi, I'm Andrew Brown and you're listening to the Lost Art of the Skilled Trades podcast, a show that shines the spotlight on careers in the skilled trades that are high-paying, honorable, rewarding and fulfilling. The trades are the backbone of the economy that keep us running and without them, our world would cease to exist

And you pointed out something pretty simple, and I kinda wanna read this. You had said that, "We cannot expect an eighteen-year-old to walk into industry and already know how to be a professional. Companies have a responsibility to develop them." And that really got my attention because you've been doing this for nearly twenty-plus years.

So I wanted to really bring you on and sort of dig into what you've learned and what UNITED GRINDING is actually doing to recruit, train, mentor, and keep young people, because that is top of mind a lot of business owners' plates right now. So tell us just a little bit about sort of what you've learned and what you're doing over at UNITED GRINDING.

My question is, how many young people are getting trained, really, you know? That you have to bring old-older people back while you don't have enough people coming after, uh... Why is that? Why do you think that is-- Why do you think that's not the case there? It is a very big investment. We are roughly by ten percent of our workforce apprentices.

So when you think about that for a company, and this is a good ratio for, yeah, almost every company you can say, you know. Even for smaller mom-and-pop shops, if they have one or two, you know, that is what it was i-in the past. You know, you don't need to have ten or twenty students, you know? But we just ramped up and got, uh, now to five.

And everybody loves them. I mean, they get more and more productive, of course. But when they-- when you hire them, they don't know anything. They're coming right off, out of high school. Yeah. But after the first half year being on the workbench just with hand tools, they get into electrical tools like drill press, lathes, milling machines, and so on.

They know the company already. So there's a lot of benefits if you do it in-house. What do you look for in a particular candidate? Because what's... I guess the question is, what's the percentage that make it through versus the ones that don't? And what keeps them engaged throughout those first few years? So it's interesting that you mention that.

We just, like I said, we hired five students, and we had over four hundred candidates. Wow. Yeah. And that shows a lot of things already what you hear all the time, young people don't want to work. Four hundred people want to, you know, and I cannot take them all, you know. What background they have? They're coming out of high school.

He maybe knows a little bit. He wants to work with his hands, you know. Of course, good math skills are al-always helpful. Yeah. He maybe works with his dad on a, on a car or with his friends on a computer. He built his new computer by himself, things like that. That is what I'm looking for. And then of course, is that person somebody we would hire later into our, uh, company?

just knows nothing, just maybe has... Well, is it soft skills as well? Do you look for that as well? Yes, but I don't really have any problems with young people. When you talk to them in one-on-one in the interview, you know, most of them well-spoken, you know, they respect other people, and I don't see the problem.

Like I said, we hear this a lot, like you said earlier, you know, people don't want to work, the soft skills are not there, and things like that. I don't see it. And I have to say, the career center, for example, you know, I'm working with them and the high schools, I think they do a much better work today, too, to get students prepared, especially on soft skills Than, let's say, five, 10 years ago.

So you're pulling them locally... And just remind everybody where, where you're located. We are just, uh, north of Cincinnati or south of Dayton in Miamisburg, Ohio. Okay. And you're pulling from high schools in the local region or across the- Yes ... state or? No, we, it's pretty local. I mean, I have around here five high schools, three career centers, you know, so that is where the most coming from.

And a lot of times they feel that, "Well, yeah, we, I piqued their interest at that point, but then, then it just went stale from there." H- Again, how do you just continue to keep them engaged so an organization could be like, "Okay, maybe we're not trying specific things"? What can you tell them? So I'm really engaged with all of them, as a college, as high school, career center, universities, you know.

So you need to engage these young kids, of course. And if a school teacher sees that, they want to come back. Yeah? When I started this program three years ago here at UNITED GRINDING, we had for four ca- uh, for four positions, we had 15 candidates. The following years was already 30, then 120, and now we are by 400 You know, so you see how that goes.

And that comes from really being engaged and being out there, show what we do and that we do it right. Yeah. Our students have full benefits. They're starting with a nineteen dollar fifty paycheck, yeah, fifteen days vacation and so on. We treat them like everybody else. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like they're a part of the team right away.

And can you share a little bit more, what are those individuals, the appren-- like, what are they learning and what will they become after a handful of years? Yeah. So that's an interesting approach too for us or for anybody. We really start just with hand tools. No electrical tool or battery tools at all.

We try to really create a multi-craft technician. Today, the term is mechatronic, you know, the mechatronic guy. What we hopefully can fill all our technical positions later with. Yeah, or if it's service, or if it's on the production floor or anywhere else, we want to bring these students in all these technical positions.

Our retention is pretty good comparing to other companies in this field. So with the students, I hope we will be better on this. Can you say that most of them that go through stay on that point, or do, do some leave and go elsewhere? Yeah. So we don't know yet, you know? I just wanna make one point because a lot of companies say, "Well, it's very expensive to do this, and you teach them, and they, and then they leave."

They see other companies, you know? They just did a interview for a commercial video with the college they're going to, and every one of the students said, "Yeah, I hope I can stay. I get a job at United Grinding and can stay there for 10, 15, or 20 years." Everybody answered that question in that direction.

One actually was pretty funny. He said, "I want to stay with United Grinding for the next 50 years." Oh, I love it. So... I wish everybody would say that. Yeah, I know, but when you hear this, then you think you do something already right. If they're not looking already to go somewhere else and want to be happy to be done and out, you know?

We hear all the time they, they just want flexible time. They don't want to work. You know, we mentioned that a couple times about flexible time. We like flexible time or I like to go on a Friday early home, you know? That's, that has nothing to do with young people or... You know. Well, I wanna dig a little bit deeper because I'm, I'm just trying to think in how people will perceive this who are listening.

Yes, it, it seems like a, a good program, but let's get into the specifics of it. Like other people in the organization need to be bought in, right? Mentors, people, the CEO. Like how does that come across? Is everybody from the top to bottom bought into this? Because if I feel if they are not, you're gonna have some weak links there.

Everybody knows that, but if the top don't understand this, nothing will happen. Yeah. And you see also if a program comes alive somewhere and the company starts struggling a little bit, the first thing what they cut is these programs. Yeah. And this is the worst thing you can do. But if you coming back and get better, what you need?

You know, that was very clear message to everybody to be behind it and help to build this. Well, it takes the whole company. It is a culture shift if you bring young people in. Yeah. I have a total right now on the floor, the last two weeks they've been not to school for summer break, so I have a total of 14 young guys out there, and girls, you know.

It's like craziness, you know? I mean, it's young people, 14 of them, you know. So... But we do some f- fun things too. We did a team-building, uh, event racing go-karts, you know, with them. I bet. So you see that it's more than just work, you know. You want to build a team. You, you w- Everybody needs to be a part of it.

First they need the buy-in from the CEO because if they're not getting buy-in it's gonna be hard to get off the ground, but even if you get the buy-in from the CEO, I, I assume there's gonna be areas where you need to tweak. Maybe it's managers, maybe it's people on the floor, maybe it's VPs. Like, how... You know, there probably are some weak links somewhere.

So find a different solution, talk to the manager. You know, we found out he didn't have too much support from our team, you know, so from the mentor and things like that, so we get better on that too. But that's okay. Nothing is perfect in the world. Yeah? And when I started this program or created this program I had the first half year laid out and as we've been going I created the other pieces for what's coming.

They're coming up with, always with something. Yeah. They're new to industry. They've never been into the industry. Yeah. So normally I'm here, so they know they come, can come to me. But if I go out for a meeting or I'm not here for vacation or what other reason, I always make sure that I tell them and tell them where to go if they have a question.

Yeah. This is normally my boss, the V- VP of operation they can go to when I'm not here. So that, that's a very important part. The other way, too, I tell her, the VP of operation, check on them sometimes. You know, don't think they're out there for eight hours, and they know all the time what they need to do.

How do you spot that? Because everybody's personality is different. The VP might be different from, from you or the next person in the organization. So how do you kind of spot that and adapt? So I created a little spreadsheet for that, what needs to be filled out by the mentor and by the student. Okay.

You know, he don't ask. He goes right into the job. Don't let me explain anything. The other mentor on this kind of the same job said, you know, he was very helpful. He sees work right away and jumps on it, you know. So you see already two different mentors have a total different view of the student in the same task, let's say.

So it's interesting to see. What do you do with that information from there? So you got two different perspectives, probably two different personalities. Yeah. I talk really then after that with the student, have a conversation, you know, and show him, and show him that some people appreciate things and some other not You know, and you need to read this person also, you know.

Not everybody's a teacher. What specifically makes a good mentor from what you've seen in the program? You're right. And especially, I mean, we are very heavy on engineers here at UNITED GRINDING. Sure. And engineers are normally not people persons you know? They are, they are in their own world a little bit, figure things out sometimes.

And yes, first of all, not everybody wants to be a part of this, and that's fine, too. You know, if you don't want to have a student, you know, while you think you can't do it, we don't put that pressure on the people to say you have to. You know, we have enough- Okay, so most people opt out- Yeah ... basically. We have- Got it

Yeah. And if anybody from your audience wants this book, I can send it electronically for free. That's not a problem. But it's sometimes really, even with our own kids at home, you know, w- we know sometimes we don't get the information to them as we like to. Uh, and that is with students or young people, you know, the sa- the same way.

Do you do any type of, I don't wanna say disc assessment or some type of understanding of their personality to see if it meshes with maybe the mentee's personality? Or is it just, "Here's the book. You're a mentor. We'll see how it goes"? Like, how do you weed that, weed them out? No, like I said, in general, the whole company is part of the program, you know.

That- that's first. That comes first, you know. But then, of course, when you go in a, in a department, let's say field service for example, there's, I don't even know, there's probably 10 field service guys, you know, and we know already the- From this 10, maybe three there would be really good mentors, and that's maybe only what we need.

We are around 100 people, and there's enough people would like to be part of it, and I think they're all pretty good mentors. Even like I said with the example I found... I had earlier, you know. And I talk to them too, "Look at this," you know. "Your colleague found the student really helpful. You say he was annoying or whatever, you know?

So why is that? Why you think that?" So going a little bit deeper in, in this to find out, and maybe he's not the right person, you know, and that's okay. Are mentors incentivized or it's just kind of I'm volunteering my time? It's volunteering. It's really- Volunteering ... I mean, when, when you think about if they get some student what is already...

So I think it helps them more than it hurts them. So for that reason, I think they like to have the students with them. I see. Okay. I wanna come back to what you said a little bit about our fault, 'cause I, I wanna dig into that a little bit. But so you had from f- what we talked about offline is that you had 400 applicants for five positions.

But now how can I be more picky? So I think I will set my expectations from high school diplomas a little bit higher. Maybe I'm going to a three point five GPA high school diploma. Before I didn't really looked at that. I looked the math a little bit. Yeah, that's okay. You know, that's enough what I need.

But now I maybe bring that standard already a little bit up. But if even I cut in with this to two hundred or a hundred fifty down, I'm still good to make the right decisions, I think. That is what I learned, uh, the last couple of weeks while I know. I talked to another company about have an apprenticeship program, and they're doing the same thing, and I said, "Yeah, that would be probably a good approach to start with," you know.

We have a, a pretty cool thing. We drive the school bus actually into the building, unloads the kids in the p- production area Not a lot of companies can do that. We have a drive-through through the company where we load and unload machines. Oh, okay. So for that reason, uh, there's a possibility to drive a school bus in, into the building.

They never see something like that. We talk about the symbols, about, uh, air cylinder symbols. And then I hear later from a career center, the student was later at the career center, and they showed something and he said, "Oh, I just learned this at UNITED GRINDING. This is an air cylinder. I know the symbol."

And I said, "Wow, that's pretty cool." You know? So something sticked already in their heads, you know? That's all you need is that, maybe that one thing for them to- Yeah, exactly ... think about. And that was a middle school kid, you know? So he have, uh, well, he have two, three or more coming back every year to UNITED GRINDING.

Like, how do you get the parents on board? Great that you mention this. Well, the first in-person meeting we have with a student, with an applicant, let's say it like that, is actually we invite him with his parents, with his grandparents, you know, or maybe his girlfriend. Whoever he wants to bring, he can bring up to four people to the first interview process.

So we invite him and nine other candidates with their family. So we give a presentation about the company, about the program. We take the whole group on a tour, show the company, show the apprenticeship area, and then we have a little discussion, you know, about the benefits if they get selected, that they also need help from the parents.

We hope that we can keep everybody, yeah. But we said also that if the company down too good, it's maybe not a possibility you can stay. But then what? With, like you said earlier, what if they leave? It's not a problem. We give back to the community, you know? Would that not be great if they maybe go to our neighbors, you know, and be giving back to the community with that?

You know, it's okay to... Maybe somebody from the students also said, "You know what? United Grinding is not a company where I want to spend the rest of my life. I go somewhere else," or they're moving. We know that too, so people move. So there's always something going on, and if that is the case, that's okay.

Uh, so they got a little bit out of me, definitely. Yeah, I also-- And I, I ask this question to a lot of people in the trades. What they member the-- remember the most is the people also. So if you have a good culture, you have a good apprenticeship, you have good mentorship, people tend to remember that. And even though if they, like you said, they move on to another organization, they remember that, and they tell good stories to other people.

I wanna shift over for a quick second. You said first when we started to talk is, "This is our fault, not theirs." Can you explain a little bit more, unpack that a little bit? Yeah. It was related that we always hear that, uh, young people don't want to work anymore. They want only flexible time, you know, and so on.

All these, you know, things about young people, but it's not true. It is more on our side that we don't give them the chance. You know, who is hiring seventeen, sixteen-year-olds, you know? There's always that excuse, especially in manufacturing, oh, we cannot hire anybody under eighteen, you know. We hear that all the time.

So... And if I adjust a little bit to that, I can hire young people. There's no problem. Uh, so not hiring, it's our problem, it's our fault, not theirs. And that is with every other test when we build this, like you said by the beginning, I don't get one with twenty years experience when it's twenty years old.

We start with small projects what go couple hours long, couple days then, and then the-they have a project what is a week-long, and then they build a really nice truck completely by themselves. That's almost a four-week project. Yeah. And, and you see they finish it. They are proud of it to finish it So it, it's us what don't give them not the opportunity, and that needs to be changed in any industry.

It, it, to extent it, it is our fault. I, I think it's not 50/50 here. It's not like it's the people who are walking in or, or it's the organizations. Uh, everybody has areas where they can improve, but I know that will get pushback. But the fun part is- Sam, but I, I like... I think, I think it's bold what you're saying- Yeah

that it, that it's our fault. We need to look within. Yeah. And we need to get better. And, and everybody probably have to, uh, put the hand on their own nose, really, to say- ... when I started an apprenticeship long, long time ago, our pre- president started in ap- apprenticeship, you know? And we, we just had s- several weeks ago the con- conversation about that, but we saw the students and get...

We've been there, too. It's not that much different today than it was- We were all new once ... 20... Yeah, 20, 30 years ago or 40 years even, you know? We started all like this. Why I got now to the university, you know, my sister is a year younger than me. You know, I always said she was the smart one. I was the other one, you know?

You know? So I wanted to make money. That is why I got into apprenticeship, you know, not right to college. Yeah, I wanted to have a fast car and a girlfriend. That was my priority at that time. You know, it changed a little bit over time- Yeah ... especially when I saw- I would, I would think so ... especially when I saw how much money w- she was making later, you know, uh, after she was done with college and I was a technician on the production floor, you know.

But I need a little bit more time, and that is why I say when you hear not everybody is made for college, I say everybody is made for college, but not at the same time. Yeah? So we need to give these people different opportunities, and that is going through an apprenticeship program, for example. Finish that.

You know? To have more option whenever you're ready, that is the point, and that is what we as industry need to provide. We need to- Yeah ... provide entry level, apprenticeship, or even direct going on the production floor, you know, assembly something or whatever you want to do, entry level job, and then you find out, oh, this is interesting, but I don't want to do that for the rest of my life.

Now I'm going maybe into an apprenticeship program. You know, working then in the field, great, as a technician or something like that, field service. And then I said after five years when there's a lot of traveling maybe involved, maybe I need to find something else. What it takes to get a bachelor master degree.

options, which is, which is really great to see, and you can take many different paths with this, which is wonderful, and it gives those kids an opportunity to succeed. But we need to provide each step. That is very important for the industry to do that. Yeah. I've been yesterday to a meeting with, with the governor actually from Ohio, and Ohio is now number one for business, you know?

And, uh, what is great, there's a lot of companies coming to Ohio, uh, great companies, small, big, but where is the workforce coming? That is now the next problem. We discussed this yesterday. You know, where is the workforce coming? How can we get companies involved in this? Well, without them, nothing will happen, and some new companies, they're coming quick, and they're leaving quick if they cannot find the right workforce.

I said, "You just created a bigger problem." You know, now you need definitely good educated people what can troubleshoot all your equipment. Maybe less, but better educated, you know? Where you find them? Yeah, exactly. You're not gonna solve everything by, uh, investing fully in technology. No. But someone's still gotta fix it, and still gotta maintain it.

Well, Jens, before we leave the studio today, I'd like to ask one question based upon somebody's expertise. If there is one thing you want a manufacturing leader listening to this episode to rethink about developing young people, what is it? Put your own needs ba- away. Think about what the student need, or the apprentice, you know, to be successful in their career, you know?

And then when you, when this student start at your company and you give them the skills what they don't specific need for, for your company, you create a person what will be a long time with you and have the knowledge what you actually need later. You know, and the other thing is, if you don't have a program like this or don't do anything, start.

If you don't do it, in a couple years it's an emergency surgery, you know? So start now. Don't wait. That is what I can tell companies or people, you know. So invest in, invest in the student or, or the people, or the people just obviously starting out and start an apprenticeship program even though that it could take a couple years to fine-tune it.

Yeah, and, and think about too, I mean, the, the first student we're getting out is after four years, so it don't solve my problem what I have now. It solves the problem in the future. Yeah. But that is what I have that outlook, where we want to be. Ev- everybody ask you in an interview where you want to be in five years or 10 years,

Yeah, it's a good way to look at it. Yeah. Look at it as a long-term investment into these individuals. Don't see it as a cost. You just ment- mentioned one point. It's an investment. Don't see it as a cost, you know, very important as what you said. And it will-- there will be a lot of return on investment on it.

Yes. Well, Andreas, I really appreciate really your perspective and sort of what you're doing to develop the next generation and your apprenticeship, and that's a great model for others out there that are thinking about starting an apprenticeship program. If people wanna know more about your organization, where do they go?

We meet once a month just talking about what is working, what is not working. If you want to start, you know, what you have to do. Everybody likes to help everybody. You never had a contract with a student? I sent you one. Make it your own. You know, don't start by scratch with z- zero. We are here to help, and that's free with no cost, you know.

But we're sitting all in the same boat, and like I said, if everybody would do this here around us, then I don't have to worry that a student leaves while I can get another one from somewhere else. We're sharing the whole workforce. We're doing that already on a very low level. Let's create that level a little bit higher, and let's still share the workforce what is out there.

Thanks for listening to The Lost Art of the Skilled Trades. Visit us at andrewbrown.net for more resources and tips. Join us next time for real stories and meaningful initiatives as we celebrate our men and women in the skilled trades and shape the future together