Amanda Miles and Chad Cochran bring sonically disparate, but thematically similar, music to Dive Bar Music Club. We end up with some deep conversation about taking care of our mental health and how that impacts the music community. The playlist moves through love, loss, and nostalgia. Amanda shares her latest Jason Isbell obsession, Chad leans into indie rock and some 90s throwbacks, and together we talk about how music becomes a lifeline during tough times. Amanda shares a bit about her progressive blindness, how it impacts her when going to see bands and venues lack accessibility, and teases an upcoming feature regarding her diagnosis in Bodies of Opinion.

Catch Our Tastemaker Playlists

• Apple Music
• Tidal

Bands and Musicians Featured in Episode 8

• Willow Avalon w/ Jason Isbell
• Ella Langley
• The Afghan Whigs
• Luke Combs w/ Alison Krauss
• Paul McCartney
• Arcwelder

Mental Health Resources

If you need immediate support, call or text 988 in the USA for connection to a trained volunteer who can help.

• NAMI
• Nuci's Space
• Your state occupational health or vocational rehabilitation office
• Music Health Alliance
• MusiCares
• Sims Foundation
• HAAM (Health Alliance for Austin Musicians)

The Regulars

• Chad Cochran
• Amanda Miles
• Sloane Spencer

Musicians, Venues, Events, and Themes Referenced in This Episode

• Alan Jackson
• Appalachian State University
• Athens
• Atlanta
• Bodies of Opinion
• Brian Lee Brown
• Birmingham
• Bowling Green
• Chicago
• Coca-Cola Amphitheater
• Dave Grohl
• David Byrne
• Faith Hill
• Garth Brooks
• Jack White
• Jim White
• Laughing Hyenas
• Live Nation
• Linda Ronstadt
• Luaka Bop
• Madison Square Garden
• Martina McBride
• Minneapolis
• Miranda Lambert
• National Independent Venue Association (NIVA)
• Nelsonville Music Festival
• New Disabled South
• Ohio
• Okemah
• Patrick Keeler
• Raconteurs
• Red Rocks Amphitheatre
• Reba McEntire
• Ringo Starr
• Ryman Auditorium
• Steve Albini
• Tabernacle
• Tedeschi Trucks Band
• Them Crooked Vultures
• Touch and Go Records
• Topher Brown
• Tyler Childers
• Vince Gill
• White Stripes
• Woody Guthrie Folk Festival
• Wynonna Judd

Recommended If You Like

dive bar music club, music podcast, 90s alt rock, emerging songwriters, Jason Isbell, Luke Combs, Alison Krauss, Ella Langley, mental health and music, concert photography, music festivals, country music scene, music recommendations, indie music, music accessibility, songwriter interviews, music playlists, music discussions, Americana music, music industry insights, Dive Bar Music Club podcast, music podcast 2026, indie music discussion, 90s alt rock nostalgia, indie rock playlist, Americana music podcast, country music deep dive, Jason Isbell fans, Willow Avalon Cardinal Sin, Luke Combs Alison Krauss duet, Ella Langley cover songs, Toby Keith cover reinterpretation, music and mental health, music as therapy, emotional connection to music, nostalgic music themes, love and loss songs, sad music playlist, songwriting and storytelling, emerging artists 2025, indie folk and synth folk, Icelandic folk music, live music culture, concert photography, music festivals 2026, backstage photography, touring musicians life, TikTok music discovery, viral music trends, album recommendations podcast, Paul McCartney new music, Afghan Whigs comeback, Arc Welder band, college rock revival, 90s music revival, alternative rock discussion, music community podcast, disabled joy and music, accessibility in live music venues, mental health in music industry, musicians mental health advocacy, music and identity, podcast music recommendations, discovering new artists, genre-blending playlists, music nerd culture

I'm like, yes, make it be depressing.

That's what I want.

So this.

Welcome to the Dive Bar Music Club podcast, where the guest hosts drop in and out, but the opinions are always passionate and the playlists loud.

It's like cheers if everyone at the bar had a strong take on 90s alt rock or a suspicious number of burned CDs.

Around our table, you'll find an emerging touring songwriter, a former cult band favorite whose work since then is even more interesting, a portrait photographer with a not so secret metal penchant, a record store owner who learned about Swifties the hard way, a retired folk singer who regrets nothing, and a zine maker with more cool music projects than we can count.

We're all just here to share what we're currently obsessed with and maybe convince someone that, yes, that weird Icelandic synth folk band is worth a listen.

Okay, that last one's probably me, Sloane Spencer.

It's Dive Bar Music Club, low key, high taste happy hour for music nerds.

Welcome back to Dive Bar Music Club.

I'm your host, Sloan Spencer, joined by a couple of my friends for our low key, high taste music chat.

This evening got Chad Cochran with us again and Amanda Miles.

But the three of us have never hung out before, so a little fun, kind of getting to know each other and y' all can get to know us as well.

We have a great, unexpectedly thematic music list to talk about this evening, as well.

As I was going through and sequencing our playlist this time, I was like, we have a theme.

I love a theme, especially because I don't assign homework.

I'm just like, hey, what are y' all listening to these days?

But because it's been a while since we've had a chance to chat, both Chad and Amanda, what have y' all been up to since we last talked?

I would say that I have.

I've been fortunate that I have been off the road for a little bit.

So I've been home, which has been fantastic.

It has given me some time to start to schedule my summer.

As many people know, I'm a live music and concert photographer and I do a lot of backstage portrait stuff at music festivals also during the summer.

So I have a couple of those that I've been able to get solidified for the year and looking forward to that.

Ooh, yeah.

I'm going to ask you about that at the end.

Don't let me forget because I absolutely want to hear all about it.

We're all about leaking information before it's officially other places.

Amanda, what have you been up to lately?

So I've just been.

Been working away.

I work at work at the nonprofit and this is our, like, gearing up for our busy time of year right now as we head into summertime and really like listening, listening to a ton of music, doing a lot of writing right now and preparing for some summer trips, actually some summer trips around some certain concerts.

So it's a busy time, but it's also a really exciting time.

Yay.

That's super fun.

I feel like I haven't been doing anything, but I've been super, super busy.

But it's because I'm kind of gearing up for my spring summer, which have a whole lot of music related stuff going on.

And by the time this comes out, I will be on location for my favorite music festival for several days.

So lots to talk about and excited to share all that sort of stuff.

So as I was going through the music that y' all submitted this time, I was kind of like, oh, we got a couple of different music genres going on here.

I'm not sure how we're gonna connect all of this.

And then I. I started listening more carefully to the lyrics.

And y' all may know that I'm not really a lyric person.

I'm more of a vibe person.

But there is a very clear lyrical theme as we go through kind of an arc as we go through these songs.

So I want to start with you, Amanda, because you've brought some new music from someone that I have, like, a longtime background connection to, and I would love to have you share some of the songs that you chose this time around.

Oh, my gosh.

Well, I can't wait to hear about your background.

So I brought a couple of songs.

It's funny because I was actually looking over them too, thinking that there definitely felt like there was a theme.

First is, of course, as you know, if you're a listener, you know that I am a die hard Jason Isabel fan.

So Jason debuted a single with Willow Avalon called Cardinal Sin.

And it is just like, sonically, I can't stop listening to it.

It's just.

It's something, just something about the sou and the tenor of Willow's voice just pulls me in.

And the other songs that I brought, Luke Combs with Alison Krauss, Ever Mine and Deeply.

And it's very funny because Willow's voice actually reminded me of Allison.

Oh, I can hear that connection.

It's that angelic tone and a little bit of that vibrato.

But just hearing the voices of Luke and Allison together.

Same sort of thing.

Just really like soothing and beautiful.

But I. I really love the lyrics of the song too.

And then the third song is a throwback.

This one is Ella Langley covering Toby Keith's Wish I Didn't Know Now.

So I have so many questions about these songs for you.

Yes.

So knowing what I know about you and knowing that you're a Jason Isbell super fan, I love that you found this duet with Willow Avalon.

Were you previously familiar with her?

No.

So this was my.

This was my debut to Willow's work.

This has opened the door to her music for me.

Okay.

So I don't want to sound like the expert on Willow Avalon, because I'm not, however.

So you know, she's from Athens Geor.

Oh my gosh.

Sloan.

I didn't know that.

And it gets better because her dad is Jim White, the Searching for the Wrong Eyed Jesus guy.

And Trans Skipper do.

Transcendental Skipper do something like that.

He's an amazing songwriter and author and storyteller.

And he's more on the like storytelling folk end.

And he was on David Burns record label Luka Bop for a long time.

And he is a fascinating character.

And so back when she was still in like middle school, high school, he would occasionally post little videos saying, here's my eldest daughter, she's a really good singer.

And I was like, holy cow, this little kid is a really good singer.

He's not kidding.

He's not just proud dad.

And she literally like invented herself and she has sounded the way she sounds since she was like a little kid.

That's incredible.

I did not know that that was.

That was her father.

But that makes.

It does make sense now because I'm thinking about her, her like lyrical prowess at such.

I was even thinking like that she's at sunky such a young age now.

But knowing that she's been doing this for all these years, it makes sense.

She is totally like invented herself musically and has had one of those people who's like marched to the beat of her own drum from day one.

Fascinated I've been.

And she has quite a. Yeah, I'm fascinated by her because I was always like that person who was like creatively questioning and lots of like imposter syndrome and never confident in being different.

I mean, for decades.

And to see someone from afar who knows that they are a creative and are going to like, literally forge their own way from an early stage is just fascinating to me.

Yes.

Oh, my gosh.

Well, I'm hoping that this will.

This will be her breakout single then, because it does feel like, myself included, there's many more eyes on her with this debut, with this duet with Jason.

Yeah.

And she's co wrote it with.

So I worked in country music for a really long time in the commercial radio end of it.

And so her co writer on this is Topher Brown, who is kind of, when you look him up, he's like co writer for hundreds of other stuff.

So just that connection is in between that and then Jason being the duet partner on this is.

She is doing incredibly well.

And she's literally one of the rare stories of someone who had the skills and made it happen.

You know what I mean?

Gosh.

Now I must go back and read more about her father and the Athens connection.

I love him.

I don't know how I initially found him other than some of his writing and just found the music.

I found his writing before I found the music.

So, anyway, fascinating stuff.

Fascinating stuff.

And especially because lyrically, this song, Cardinal Sin, pretty straightforward of what's going on, but I would love to sort of guide it through your other choices as well.

You were talking about Luke Combs, a guy that.

So I'll admit I don't really like popular country music.

I know that that's not a major revelation, but I don't.

I worked in it for too.

I worked in it for too long to like it, if that makes sense.

But I get it.

Yes.

I'm not a Luke Combs hater.

I think he is coming from everything, from a very genuine standpoint, and he's done some good things to amplify women songwriters.

And I think that's pretty incredible because you don't see that a lot from white dudes in popular country music.

And this.

This one with Alison Krauss is a really nice collab as well.

Yes.

Yes.

So I will say I definitely understand exactly where you're coming from with the.

I mean, especially with the popular music.

And we also know just about how the country music industry is and how these certain artists get elevated.

And then it's like there's a million artists, basically.

Music Row puts out a bunch of, like, copycats.

So.

But with Luke.

So I may have shared.

I may have shared a little bit about this when I submitted this song, but I have really been impressed with him of late as he's been doing some podcasts and some media like promoting this, his newest album that this song is featured on with Allison Krause.

And what really spoke to me is how he has been sharing his battle with OCD and sharing that he'd done therapy and also tried medications for ocd.

And it just really, especially in the spills, like so much, so many times in the country music industry where things just feel either ultra progressive or ultra conservative.

And there's not a.

There's not a middle ground.

I feel like when you talk about a mental.

Mental illness and getting therapy and treatment for it, it just seems like it's really been something especially not a lot of male artists have talked about.

So I really appreciated him being vulnerable and talking about, you know, it's still something he deals with, you know, to this day, and that he was encouraging, like listeners if they struggle with it, to reach out support.

And which also I laugh at myself because I'm like, oh, the bar is in hell.

Then I'm like, I'm so impressed that he's like, please get treatment.

But I also.

And this is.

I was telling my husband this the other day too.

I was listening to him, to him on.

On a podcast and he had shared that he was like riding around on a four wheeler on his property with his son and they were listening to Southeastern and I was like.

And.

Which was Jason's album that I would say is like his foremost.

Like, if you're a fan of Jason Isbel and Southeastern is usually like the album everybody talks about.

So it actually made me stop and take a second look at him and go, oh, maybe I should.

Maybe I should listen to his new album.

And that's when I heard this song here with Allison Krauss.

And I am a. I love Allison Krause.

And then has it been as.

As much of late.

But when I think about a long, like a lifetime talent, when I think about somebody that has such a unique voice and unique presence, I think of Allison Krauss.

And I've loved this song because it gives me like a almost like a nostalgic feeling, a nostalgic thread.

And there's like a yearning in it, which I love.

I love a ballad.

I love some.

If you're Jason Isabel fan, then that usually means you like sad stuff, which I love.

I'm like, yes, make it be depressing.

That's what I want.

So this.

So this song, this song is what definitely gave me that, like, yearning Feeling.

I loved hearing their voices together.

Luke has such a very powerful voice.

And then hearing the softness and the beauty in hers together was just so.

I was very impressed.

And it actually, like I said, it made me.

Made me take a second look at Luke and made me take a deeper look into who he is as an artist and really enjoyed the single.

Amanda, I'm really glad that you put this on because similar to what you just said, like, I knew Luke Colm existed.

Like, I knew he was a person, but I didn't really know anything about his music.

I probably in alignment with Sloan, not really a popular country music fan, and watching him do all of the press, he has told some incredibly interesting stories.

Seems like an incredibly authentic person.

And I was kind of excited that you put the song on there because I'm like, okay, I don't have any choice now.

Now I have to go and listen to Luke Combs.

And he's really good.

Like, he's got a really good voice, and he just.

He just seems like a super humble person.

He.

On one of the podcasts that he did, I'm a pretty active TikTok user, so I pick up, like, little clips, and it was really interesting.

It was like one of the first nights he was going to play Madison Square Gardens and he went in and he was going to buy himself, like, a fancy watch.

Like, that was going to be his gift to himself.

So he could wear this fancy watch while he played and the people didn't know who he was.

And he just looks like a normal guy, right?

Like, he's kind of just looks like just a really normal dude.

And went in there.

They basically said that they didn't have any watches available.

Like, they kind of just blew him off.

And I think the end of the conversation ended up being like, why did you want this watch?

And he's like, oh, I'm playing Madison Square Garden tonight.

And I wanted to wear it.

And then suddenly they were like, we might have one around.

Like, it was almost like TV show level, like, snootiness.

So, yeah, I'm glad you put it on there.

It was good for me to finally not have an excuse.

I needed a reason to listen to Luke Combs, and that gave me one.

Oh, my gosh.

I love it.

And I love that story.

It's very like Julia Roberts and Pretty Woman.

She's like, big, big mistake.

That is something that I really connected to.

Listening to him talk on the podcast lately is this exact same thing.

It's just he's humble.

I can tell that he really loves the music and he's grateful to be able to like, be an artist.

I connected to some of his stories when he shared that he, you know, just started singing when he was going to college at Appalachian Stuff State.

And I've been to that campus before and it's beautiful, but it's really small and it does make you think about how somebody, you know, it's.

It's nice when somebody like that who is just come from.

Comes from a small town, attended a small college and believed, but believed in himself and just made it big.

And like now he's playing Madison Square Garden, Kind of Wild.

And your other song from Ella Langley, when I first saw it.

So I like, know her name, but I know the song because that was like, as I said, I worked in pop country music for more than 20 years, so.

Oh, yes, yes.

The original of that was like a daily song for us.

So how did you.

Because that one's been out for a while.

How did you find her?

Yes.

Okay.

So I do, I will say, like, Ella is probably one of the few, like modern country, like popular country artists that I do listen to.

Was introduced to me over the past year through Tick Tock.

Like, it was very, very heavily featured to me several of her.

Of her songs.

And I really like her rasp and she looks like a young Linda Ronstadt.

She's.

She's very beautiful.

But I just really like, I really like the rasp in her voice and I like, she's very funny when I've seen her featured in like some media pieces.

But this song, of course, like, I know it of course as being like Toby Keith, like early 90s.

I'm very much a 90s country lover.

Like, I still will listen to like Vince Gill and Garth Brooks and Alan Jackson and then like the women of that time.

I look up to so much like Martina and Wiona and Reba Faith Hill.

So I have an affinity for these songs.

But I mean, to be completely honest, like, I don't have an affinity very much for Toby Keith because also, you know, of the, of all the politics.

He had very strong political views during the Bush administration and anti Chicks, anti Natalie Mains.

So I did.

But I will say, like, her version of this song did make me fall in love with the song because she slowed it down, made it into a ballad solid and just really broke it down to where it was stripped back.

She transformed this song.

Yeah, this.

It's completely different.

So hearing her version of it and it's just melodically so beautiful.

And again I feel like all of my songs just have this thread of, like, some sort of nostalgia, some sort of yearning.

And that's just what I've been tapping into this.

This.

This go round.

And it feels like.

It felt like it felt fit in these cluster of songs that I submitted.

Yeah, it was.

It was nice because, like I said, I knew her name, but I freely admit I had never listened.

And so I was like, oh, I have, like, a funny relationship with COVID songs.

I don't know how y' all feel about COVID songs just as a concept.

Maybe some people don't care, but I love when a cover song becomes its own entity.

And this is.

This is entirely different.

Yes, exactly.

It's definitely its own.

Its own thing, its own version.

And then, like, so Ella does have a new album that just came out this week.

Week.

So I'm hearing a lot of.

I'm hearing a lot of Butterfly.

She has a.

She has a new single with a duetting with Miranda Lambert.

It's very popular in TikTok and being fed that a lot.

But this song is what I keep going back to because I just.

I just love how it's been completely changed over to something different and something new and fresh.

I love her perspective on this take.

On the COVID I appreciate that you have your own distinct taste in music and bring these things that, honestly, I probably wouldn't find otherwise.

And I'm grateful.

See, that's the great thing about this podcast, because I love hearing all sorts of different.

Different types of music that.

Because I'm very much in my, like, bubble of country and Americana.

And then I get to hear rock and I get to hear rap, and I get to hear all sorts of different things that I maybe have not been tapped.

I get to hear Swedish music.

Right?

A lot.

Shockingly, yeah.

But it's easy to get.

I think that the technology weirdly makes us more siloed rather than more broadly knowledgeable.

And so that's where something like this podcast of people who have different silos being fed to us can share and hopefully help other people either branch out or find new things or just get something different in their algorithm once they start searching for one of these bands that is fresh for them.

So I love that this happens.

Chad, we've obviously known each other for a really long time, and you brought a couple of bands that I'm not surprised about, and then one that I will also admit to have not listened to yet.

So tell me about the songs you chose this time around.

So I take, like, what we do Here, incredibly, literally, probably to a fault,.

When you see what I submitted.

Yeah.

Like, when you say, like, what are you listening to recently?

Almost always I will go to, like, my Apple Music, and I will pick, like, the last three bands that I've listened to.

And that's what I submit.

That's exactly what I do.

Right.

And so, like, you know, I have Paul McCartney, I have the Afghan Wigs, I have Arc Welder on here.

This morning, I was listening to Waylon Jennings, so it truly just depends what you're getting from me.

But similar to Amanda, I'm a pretty heavy TikTok user.

And so I saw that Paul McCartney released a new record, and I use TikTok.

I don't talk about photography.

I only talk about music there.

And I went and checked out the new Paul McCartney song, and I was like, oh, this is.

I don't know that Paul McCartney can put anything out at this point that you don't immediately recognize as being Paul McCartney.

Right.

But it's a really soft song.

Like, I realize he's 83 years old, but it was the first time I've heard one of his songs where I was like, oh, it sounds brittle and thin.

And it was like, I like the song, but I think it was, like, the kind of.

The rawness of the song is what drew me to it.

And it also was, like, a really good reminder that he's 83 years old and he's, you know, and he's still out making music and still, you know, doing the thing.

So it's.

I don't know.

I just thought it was, like.

It was important to, like, bring that one up.

It's weird to think that, you know, the Beatles, I think, broke up before I was born.

But, you know, we still have, you know, Paul and Ringo out on a pretty regular basis out doing the thing.

And I think that's pretty neat.

Yeah.

And lyrically, the song is kind of a.

It's like kind of a sweet, nostalgic song.

Yeah.

And that's the one that.

I admit I had not listened to it.

I knew it was out and I hadn't listened, so.

I'm glad you brought it, because I went and listened to that whole record.

Yeah.

I think it's.

It's.

I'm still, like, blown away, and I love, like.

I just love all the stories.

Like, I wish that he would like.

And maybe he has, and I haven't looked at it, but, like, I wish he would just put out, like, a book of stories.

Yes.

Because there was the one that happened when I think it was like, it was like Paul McCartney and Dave Grohl and maybe I don't know who else was involved, but they did like a rock song a few years ago and it wasn't Them Crooked Vultures, but it was like just after that and they put out a rock song.

And I remember the story was like the song came together in like an hour and Dave Grohl looks at Paul and goes, wow.

Something like, I wish it were always that easy.

And Paul goes, it is.

Oh.

And you're just like, oh yeah, that's Paul McCartney.

Like, you know, like anything anybody else that would probably sound incredibly conceited except it was Paul McCartney that said it and it was just very matter of fact.

Yeah, it is that easy.

Yeah, yeah.

So that's Paul.

And then the Afghan Wigs also have started putting new music out again, which they are one of those bands, Cincinnati based band that I think are living out in the desert now in California.

I missed them when they first came out.

I was really, I was like, it's interesting because I was like, it was the perfect moment.

Yeah.

But they didn't connect with me.

Like I wasn't, I wasn't sure what like this white guy singing like trying to sing sexy songs to me was about.

Like it didn't, it didn't like compute in my brain.

I was very, I was probably at the moment mall buying flannel shirts at that point.

So it didn't make a lot of sense to me what was happening.

Although plenty of my friends were into them.

It just, it never clicked.

And Then probably like 15 years ago I like dove back in and I'm like, oh, I love this band.

And so I was really excited to hear that they were putting new music out.

I saw that they just recently announced a new drummer by the name of Brian Lee Brown.

I'm not sure who he is, but Patrick Keillor who plays in the Greenhorns and the Rockin Tours is out with Jack White.

So obviously can't go on tour.

So they have him in.

And then they also added, and I don't know the gentleman's name, but they also added in one of the guitar players from Blind Melon is now playing in the Afghan Wig.

So it's pretty cool.

And I really like the song.

It's again, it's not drastically different than Paul McCartney.

Like there is no mistaking an Afghan Wig song.

Like you hear Greg start to sing and you're like, oh yes, this is the Afghan Wigs.

So I thought it Was fantastic.

I'm really looking forward to hear.

I'm assuming they're putting a new record out, so I'm looking forward to hearing what that sounds like.

So question for you.

I know you're a big fan of theirs, and I'm shocked that you weren't from day one.

Did you lump them in Sonically Epic Origin with grunge, or did they sound different to you?

They sounded totally different to me.

Although, you know, like, they were playing, you know, not far from me.

Like, you know, they were playing in and around Ohio.

I, coincidentally, was playing in bands at the time, and.

Oh, I'm gonna lose his name.

But their bass player, he.

John Curley.

John Curley had a recording studio in Cincinnati.

And when I was playing in bands, that was a pretty common place that people, like, that was kind of like the cool place to go and record.

And so there were bands coming out of, like, Cincinnati.

Like, there was a band called Spider Foot and the Ass Ponies and, like, just different bands that were coming out, and they, like.

That was a big deal to, like, record with them for whatever reason.

Again, like, I don't know if I was just so in that.

Alison Chains, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Screaming Trees, like, Thresh.

Like, for some reason, like, I was captured in that sonically that I wouldn't, like, really get out of my head much.

Although I listened to Tori Amos at the same time, so there's no good excuse.

Now, the reason I ask is, like, I was in what I refer to as young adulthood hell during that time, and I have, like, a whole gap of almost a decade musically, of the 90s that I just basically missed because I was working full time as a high school teacher and going to grad school four nights a week and working at the mall all day Saturday and Sunday.

So, like, the 90s are a wash for me.

So I'm fascinated with what was that like for people, even though I was technically there,.

Right?

And, like, what got lumped together at the time versus what gets lumped together today?

Because if you ask someone who only nominally knows about them and you say Afghan wigs, they're gonna go, oh, yeah.

Kind of grown, sort of, but not from up in Pacific Northwest.

And when I listen to them, I don't hear grunge.

No, it sounds like a. I don't even know how I would really describe them.

Like, it's kind of like a Midwest rock.

Yeah, it's like Midwest rock.

And it's in.

It's, like, definitely steeped in probably more blues feel Than blues sound.

Okay, that makes sense.

And yeah, like Greg's.

A lot of his lyrics are all like highly sexualized.

Like that's like kind of like what his songs are about.

So yeah, I don't.

Again, no good excuse, but I definitely missed it on the first go round.

Yeah, I like this song and I. I would not have listened had you not submitted it.

So I was kind of like, oh, this is sort of fun.

It's helping me branch out.

That's like the theme of today.

Get out of my own silo.

Yes.

Tell me about this other band that you found because it looks like they've been around.

They have.

So what's really interesting, I knew nothing about this band.

Literally nothing.

And I heard.

So I think their last record came out a couple years ago.

The band is called Arc Welder.

Their last album I think had eight tracks.

But what's interesting about that band is they started putting records out in 93.

So I think they had a record out like in 93, 94, maybe like 96, 99.

And then there was a 25 year gap.

I'm like, who are they?

And I was like, oh, they're my age.

Like, how's this possible?

Like, how's this possible?

I just assumed it was like some cool like almost kind of math rock type like college band.

And I'm like, oh.

And as it turns out, they're from Minneapolis.

They put a few of those records out on Touch and Go.

So again, another band that just never landed in my.

In my universe at all.

Like it's it if you are a college rock.

Hearing them, I immediately assumed it was a Steve Albini produced Chicago band.

It just has that vibe to it.

So if you like that kind of music, I would say go check it out.

I thought they were great.

Yeah, I totally missed them the first time around too.

To the point where I was like, is this a new band using the same name?

Right.

Yeah, I had no idea.

And I did look them up, just matter of fact, right before we were scheduled to talk because I was like, I don't really know where they're from, so I need to go look that up.

And it appears that if I Had to guess.

It looks like twin brothers in the band.

Ah.

Or definitely brothers.

At a minimum, very close in age.

But they.

They look very much alike.

Interesting, interesting.

I'm just kind of fascinated by this.

Like, because the 90s are such a gap for me musically.

Whenever anything comes up that had its origin, then I'm like, okay, so creatively that was your source.

And then where are you now?

And I'm just sort of fascinated by that whole thing.

It's weird for me because if their first records came out in 93, 94, that would have been when I was consuming music at an incredibly rapid pace.

And, you know, a lot of people, I went to Bowling Green in northwest Ohio, and kind of like the pilgrimage is that if you played in bands in Bowling Green, the natural progression is once you graduated, you just moved to Chicago.

Like, that's just what people did.

And they were kind of in that mix.

But we got bands like the Laughing Hyenas.

We got Jack White's band before he was Jack White and before the White Stripes that would play in Bowling Green.

But Arcwelder's not one that popped into my brain.

I just did not recognize them at all.

So, yeah, very interesting, Very interesting.

Yeah.

So let's see.

I was in Ohio from.

So real interesting music of that era.

Very Chicago heavy, for sure.

Yep.

I'm kind of fascinated by all this.

So, as I said, when I was initially introducing today's show, there's kind of this unintentional lyrical theme or sort of an arc of the theme that goes through this time around that I was sort of amused by when I was going through and sequencing the songs, because I like to sequence them sometimes where, sonically, it makes the right playlist.

But this time it was like I decided to go with We've got Cardinal Sin, which is clearly topical.

And then Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.

If you don't know that song, it's someone discovering their partner was unfaithful.

And then House of I, which goes into sort of a different take on all of it.

And then Evermind with the Luke Combs and Alison Krauss, which is.

I don't want to, like, give away the song, but, you know, nothing's a secret anymore.

It's sort of a Things didn't work out, but I keep this note in my wallet to remember when things were still good.

So sort of the arc of the relationship thing there.

And then Paul McCartney with the soft Nostalgic song of the past and without a lot of judgment about the past.

Not like it was the best thing ever and not like it was the worst thing ever.

And then wrapping up with the arc welder.

Take it slow of just kind of like, all right, let's all just back off and vibe.

So I kind of.

I enjoy being able to kind of tie things together in a way that might not otherwise seem to go together because, sonically, we're all over the place with this, which is totally the point anyway.

But I love that.

So I'm just curious.

We were talking, Chad, about how you literally pull the last three things you've listened to.

That's also what my methodology is, and there's no rules to this.

But I'm curious, Amanda, what strikes you?

Are you going with, like, whatever's stuck in your head, or is it, like, scrolling back on your playlist?

Yeah, so it definitely is.

Like, whatever's been stuck in my head.

Like, whatever's been my earworm lately.

I think if you guys looked at my playlist of, like, would I play most often?

It would be, like.

It would probably be, like, the same.

The same songs over and over and over.

Like, whenever I get that end of year review.

Oh, yeah.

It's.

I'm always, like, ashamed.

I'm like, oh, okay.

So I just been listening to the same stuff now for 10 years.

Like, you're in the top 1% of fans.

I'm like, okay, here's my same songs over and over.

So I definitely have this.

Have the stuff that I stick with.

But then if there's something that's been, like, shaking it up and making their way into, like, into my rotation, then that's usually something that I'll bring to this.

Like, to you guys, I have a.

Weird question for you, Amanda.

You mentioned that you are also a TikTok consumer.

And I know you had mentioned a while back that you're writing at least one book and Maybe 2.

Does TikTok overlap with your book world in any way?

You know, it really hasn't.

Which I will say this like, it's funny because TikTok likes to feed stuff over and over again.

I'll start to.

I'll start to see a theme.

And when I first joined, I was definitely on what I call book talk, where there's a lot of people, like, talking about what they're reading or authors talking about what they're writing or even authors talking about what else from the fellow.

Like, from the fellow authors that they are reading.

Not so much that's gone right now.

It's funny, I always laugh and say, like, first of all, like, our phones, of course, like, listen to us.

Because that'll be like whatever I mention, then that'll be like the next thing that pops up on TikTok.

But right now it's showing me, like a lot of live concerts.

That's the thing that seems to be popping up a lot for summertime.

And then it's also showing me, like, national parks.

That's a big thing that's popping up a lot of national park content.

That's very hilarious.

And then, and I usually do get a lot of like Appalachia, like people talking about where they live and sharing stories from their grandparents.

Now that is the one thing from some, like, from some of my writing that I think does tie back to which TikTok shows me is like the theme of Appalachia itself.

That's really, I will say, like my logarithm's all over the place right now.

So what we haven't checked in lately on your writing.

What has been going on for you?

How is that going?

So I would say it's going really well.

I do have this summer going to be featured in a outlet called Bodies of Opinion, and it's going to.

It's actually going to debut over the summer.

So Bodies of Opinion is a website that's going to be hosted by nonprofit New Disabled south and.

Yep.

So we'll feature.

Feature disabled writers.

And I will be talking about what it's been like for me to progressively lose my vision over time for the first time and just really sharing, like sharing my story.

And that will probably be mid summer is the, the launch timeline we're looking at.

But I'm.

I'm looking forward to that and I'm looking forward to sharing my piece and then hoping that it does connect me with other.

Other disabled folks who maybe even going through the same thing.

Absolutely.

And I don't want to take away from the content that will be released in that.

But how has that been for you in choosing to share this sort of information with the wide world?

Yeah.

So for me, it kind of has.

I think when I started losing my vision, I was desperately looking for other people like me.

I was looking for other people who had similar experiences.

So I think about that, number one.

And then I also think about even just like being on this podcast and sharing, sharing, like the music I love and sharing, sharing something I'm very passionate about.

I feel like as I've been progressively, like losing my vision over Time.

I think music is one of the ways that I can continue to, like, experience joy and share joy.

So it's been.

It's kind of like double fold for me for these two things.

I can.

I'm hoping that I can continue to connect with people who are experiencing the same thing as me.

And hopefully I can be somebody that if, you know, if somebody's looking.

The type of blindness I have is extremely rare.

And so I'm hoping that if there are other people in that rare seat that I was sitting in, that they will be able to connect with me and find maybe some joy or some hope or, you know, even just like some dark humor and what they're experiencing.

And then just being here with y' all talking about music, I mean, it's really how I connect with other people.

It's how I experience the day.

Like music from sun up till Sundown.

And I definitely am passionate about, like, chatting with y' all because it is one.

One way that I really tap into my emotions.

And I feel like in the disabled community, that's one thing we talk a lot about, is what we call disabled joy.

And for me, I experience it very heavily through, like, attending concerts.

And I know you've got a.

You've got a bunch of concerts on tap for the summer as well, right?

We've talked a little bit about that.

Yes.

Yes.

Very, very excited to be, like, heading out to Red rocks here in two weeks, actually.

We'll see Jason Isbull and the 400 unit out there.

And always I feel like I need, like, some sort of.

I always say this.

I'm like, you know, there was the Deadheads.

I feel like we, as a, like, Jason is Will fan, like, fan group.

Like, we need our own name for the folks that, like, travel around and go to these concerts.

Because I always think I'm like, oh, I feel like I go to a lot.

But then I.

When I talk to folks in the fandom, they're like, yeah, I'm on, like, my 50th concert.

I'm like, okay, yes.

But we need a cool.

I need a cool group name for us.

Back in the day, the Dave Matthews Band fans were Dancing Nancy's, I believe.

Oh, my gosh, that's perfect.

I love that.

So we'll definitely.

We'll definitely be doing that.

It's funny because actually, the week that we're heading out, he is coming to.

He's coming to Atlanta and playing with Tedeschi trucks at Ameris Bank.

So that's going to be an Incredible concert.

Like, I love Susan Tedeschi.

So that's going to be a great night of music.

And then summertime in June, we're going to head to Birmingham to see Tyler Childers play at the Coca Cola Amphitheater.

That's gonna be great.

I know.

I cannot wait to see Tyler.

This will be our first time seeing him, seeing him play live.

And I just desperately love his music and his voice and what he stands for.

I'm like, all of the things.

So that one will be our, like summertime.

Yeah.

Can I ask you a question about accessibility of venues?

Because you're mostly going to these large venues.

It sounds like.

Oh, yes, yes.

So it's.

This is actually something I.

It's very.

Something I'm very passionate about.

Because I will say the last time we attended a concert at the Tabernacle in Atlanta.

So a former church that's now a music venue.

Very hard for somebody who has, I'm sure, with any type of, like, access, like, needs to use like, a mobility aid or has some sort of, like, vision loss.

Very hard to navigate.

Very hard.

And it will be like most of these historic venues are similar.

So it is something I.

It's.

If I ever have an opportunity to talk with people about these things about.

About accessibility, that is one of the things I immediately talk about.

So I know that actually, I know that Live Nation has actually hired somebody to look into and be working on accessibility for their.

At their music venues.

So that, that makes me very happy because it is something that desperately needs to happen.

It is a lot easier for me to get around, like, either a newer venue because they do have accessibility usually built in.

But even so, even the ones that are like, tagged as accessible sometimes are very hard to get around.

I will say, like, I. I have an easier time getting around the Ryman.

Even though that's an older venue, they do have.

They do have more pieces of accessibility put in place than some.

Than some other venues.

I wonder if that's something that neva, the National Independent Venue association, could have an advocacy working group on.

Because it would seem to me that that would make sense.

And I mean, their primary purpose is keeping independent venues open.

But I have several friends in music who are disabled where accessibility is a primary barrier.

Like physical accessibility of the building is a primary barrier to them doing their jobs to write about the music or enjoying the show or anything like that.

And so I was actually surprised.

And this is the privilege and naivete of not having this be something that I personally deal with, even though I have a family member who is disabled.

I was not aware that this continues to be such a problem.

I really thought that the ADA solved a lot more than it turns out it actually has.

Yes, yes, you would definitely think, you would definitely think that the ADA would be like, once a law is put into place, that it would be something like all businesses have to follow.

And it's like, oh, especially if it's a historical venue or historical building, then there are all sorts of, like, ways to skirt the ada because you are, You're.

You're a historical marker, essentially.

So then it becomes a lot harder to get those buildings to, like, put accessibility features in place.

Or it's like, oh, well, we're.

We've put in a ramp outside.

And then, well, that's it.

And then there's no, there's no restroom that's like that.

You have to get.

You have to go downstairs to get to a restroom on the bottom floor.

I'm like, okay, okay, so the person's stuck here and can't use the restroom is what you're saying once they get into the building.

So, yes, I could.

I absolutely have lots of thoughts about accessibility, if any.

If anybody out that works with music venues would like to listen.

I feel like there is.

I absolutely think a working group would be incredible to put together because it's a factor that, like you said, it doesn't impact you until it impacts you.

And then you realize, oh, gosh, it's probably even harder for X, Y and Z to get in and out.

And anybody can be disabled.

I mean, it can happen.

Exactly.

You can.

Not everyone, you know, don't to be born that way or have a progressive something just.

You could have tragedy or just things happen.

That's exactly.

We always say it's like the one group that any person can join at any time.

Mm.

Mm.

And I'm curious in terms of the overlap with mental health and you were talking about disabled joy, because, Chad, you have a long standing series of musicians talking and working in the area of mental health.

And I also have some connection to that as well.

But I'm curious about this sort of overlap of addressing mental health and music and joy.

Yeah.

So outside of the disability community and the disability work I've done, I have really been a long standing, like, fan and follower of New Sea Space in Athens.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah.

And it really.

I just feel like the music community itself is a space.

If you love music, then usually you're tapped into your emotion.

Emotions in some way.

And so I just feel like all of us feel things maybe a little bit more deeply.

And therefore, we have a lot of.

I'm like.

And then we have a lot of emotions and need some place to put them.

And so for me, I put them into music, but then I also put them into, like, therapy and my mental health work.

So I think with music, like, what.

What I try to do when I'm having these discussions with, like, whether it's, like, here in this space or with my disabled community, I'm talking about two things I'm looking for, like, a way to open up the door and talk about how therapy is a great thing and addressing mental health issues for me is, like, paramount to my joy.

But I'm also looking for, like, ways I can tap into joy and all these emotions I'm feeling.

And that is me, like, listening to Jason or listening to Ella or listening to whatever TikTok is feeding me that week.

Well, interesting that you mentioned Nuche Space, because that is how Chad and I initially connected was that I have been a longtime advocate and supporter of them, and I released two records that benefited them.

And then.

And when I met Chad, he was wanting to start a mental health project that he's now done.

And so your project has continued significantly, Chad, and that actually ties into some of the stuff you'll be doing probably this summer, I would imagine.

Yeah.

I mean, first to kind of touch on what Amanda said is I feel like we live in a time when we all should be seeking joy in whatever capacity we can get it.

And talking with musicians over the last almost 10 years.

Ten years now, I do know that it's not performative.

When people say that music saved my life, I know they mean that.

And so this is me saying out loud, go find joy.

Go do the things that make you happy.

And I'm right there with you, Amanda.

Music is kind of that soothing necessity that I have in my life.

So I'm guessing that some of your advocacy and work in the world of musicians, mental health probably is going to tie into some of what you're doing this summer.

Yes.

My mental health project is called I Didn't Want to Tell youl.

And what it's allowed me to do is, like, this year, my kids.

One child is going into her first year of college, another is going into law school.

So I'm backing off of music festivals a little bit this year.

But I have a long standing relationship with the Nelsonville Music Festival, where I do backstage portraits, I do live music for them.

But I also talk about the.

I didn't Want to tell you series.

In addition to that, I think this will be my fifth year.

That fourth or fifth year that I'll be going out to Okemah, Oklahoma, and being a speaker at the Woody Guthrie Folk Festival.

I will also be doing photography there.

And I know we always try to do like some type of breaking secret news that isn't out there.

And I'm gonna.

This year I'm gonna help them.

There's a songwriter that works directly with a kids songwriting workshop.

Oh, cool.

And I'm gonna try to shoot like a music video for them and document what they do.

So something a little bit different than what I've done in previous years.

But take some of that video music video work that I've done over the last few years and do something a little bit different with it.

So kind of process.

Yeah, exactly.

I love this.

I love this.

Yeah.

If folks haven't had a chance to check out that I Didn't Want to Tell youl series, it's very visually recognizable, first of all, but also across the venues over the years, you can almost look at them and go, ah, I know what that is.

I know what that is.

And I like that there's that visual connection.

It's very distinct within the work that you create.

Yes.

Thank you.

I'm curious, I don't know that I've ever asked you this before.

When you give a talk, say, at the Woody Guthrie Festival, what is the nature of that?

So it's interesting.

It's a great question.

Because when I first started doing it, it was more informative.

It was more about like, this is what I do.

This is how it came to be.

Matter of fact, Sloan, I probably talked about you because you were kind of there in the trenches with me.

You were my sounding board when I was trying to figure out how to this thing to kind of take off.

The last couple of years, I've made it a panel.

And so I've actually.

I'm trying to remember last year.

I think I had Betty sue and I had Adeem and maybe Jamie Harris.

I'm trying to remember.

Oh, wow.

A few people have done it.

A few people have done it over the years.

So I'm trying to remember exactly who did it last year.

Right.

And the direction that I take it is starting off by talking about how important mental health is and how important it is to take care of your mental health.

And the last couple of years, I have focused on letting you know, providing the musician the opportunity to talk about how they manage their mental health while they're on the road.

Yeah, because, you know, some of them are out for 50 days a year, some of them are out for 200 days a year.

And so it's, you know, I think it was Jamie Harris that gave like, she talked a little bit about like, like Mary was driving the car, maybe she was in the passenger seat doing therapy, like going like, you know, like doing a therapy session, like going down the road.

And so it's, it's, you know, it's like those kind of like how you've got to, you know, you've got to put in the work and sometimes you only have so many hours in the day to do the work.

And so it's, I'm incredibly grateful that people are willing to open up and tell me and you know, trust me with their stories.

And I think it's really important for other people.

I mean that was like what started this project was to get the stories out there to help normalize this conversation.

And so having musicians on my panel talk about how they manage their mental health I think is incredibly helpful to the people that are sitting in the audience watching.

Absolutely.

And just to mention a few of the organizations that kind of connected us all early on.

So niche space is specific to the creative community of Athens, Georgia to prevent musician suicide.

And they have broad reaching services connected to that.

And then the Sims foundation out of Texas was also partnered with ham, the Health alliance for Austin Musicians.

But Sims foundation is also now in North Carolina and expanding their services through kind of the Eastern Seaboard a bit there, which is pretty cool.

And then nationally specific to the music community.

So anyone who works professionally in the world of music, so that can be folks who are on crew, folks who are touring front of house musicians is backline and they're probably the ones with the most broad facing public presence to connect you if you need it, to places in virtual support that are trained specifically to deal with the music community.

Because there are some nuances to the community where you want whoever your counselor or therapist is to get it.

Are there any other organizations that you've worked with, particularly regionally, that you want to make sure to mention for folks?

I think the other one, and you know, this one too, Music Cares is another one that is, that is incredibly important.

And then I think NAMI is the key one.

I always tell people start there.

That's always a great way.

The only other one would be Music Health alliance is another one I would want to make sure I get out.

There, Nashville based for that one.

NAMI is N A M I.

They are national.

It's like national association of.

I don't even know what they stand for, but nami, they're very visible and they're in every state.

Yep, it's www.nami.org.

Amanda, are there any mental health resources that are available to the disabled community?

That's actually a great question.

So to be honest, I'm not sure if there's one that's very specific just to the disabled community.

For me, I actually use a. I used a therapist who works just with folks who have vision loss or are blind.

And I was introduced to.

To her through state resources.

So every state, and most people don't know this until.

Until you need it.

And.

And then unfortunately, a lot of doctors don't point you this way.

But for.

There are resources that every state has around occupational therapy for progressive blindness or for people who are legally blind.

So you just have to.

You find those resources and they're usually like, tied to your state's website and through there actually was referred to a woman in South Georgia who works just with blind patients.

And it has been phenomenal.

That to me has been one of the biggest forms of help that I have found was finding somebody that I could talk to just about, you know, just about what was happening.

And of course, she.

Her experience with working with the blind community and she was able to point me to more resources as well.

But that was the biggest help for me was to be able to find somebody who understood my experience and understood when I was talking about the loss of certain things, because I feel like your friends and family are incredible and if you have a great support system, that's amazing.

But for me, it was actually connecting with a person who was understood.

Understanding of the particular loss that I was talking about.

So for sure, definitely folks like, look out on your state websites.

For me, it was like the state of Georgia and then looking for occupational therapy tied to vision loss.

That's, you know, it's finding that connection for the support.

It is, it is.

It really is.

I think that that's one thing, but being a part of the disability community now is learning about, you know, I feel like.

I feel like we.

There are resources usually like for.

For cancer or for heart disease.

And so.

But that's the kind of hard thing is like, there are resources, but they're siloed.

It's like there are resources over here for like, independent living, and then there are resources for like, ID'd.

So it's like developmental disabilities.

And there are.

Usually you can find great resources, but it is that they're not all in one place.

And it's like having the ability to really cipher through all of this information and find out what's really helpful.

Totally.

Chad Cochran and Amanda Mowes.

I love that music is the thing that was able to bring us together to have the conversation about what's really a lot more important this week with mental health and how it obviously impacts all of us, but that even when it seems like there's nothing to bring joy, that sometimes it is just that song of comfort or the song of rage that can give that glimmer in the day.

And it's sort of the thread for all of us coming from different places but coming together to talk about this.

I am truly, deeply like.

I get so much pleasure from that and I'm grateful for y' all for being willing to share.

Great talking with y'.

All.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks.

That's last call at Dive Bar Music Club.

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