Zachary Minor, a professional actor with a silky, mellifluous voice, has spent the last 3 decades teaching “life skills” to Rockstar athletes in the NBA, NFL, MLB and NFL. Zach has personally touched the lives of countless legendary athletes through this work.

Zach and his wife Wicki were die-hard Manhattanites, residing in a beautiful loft in Tribeca, enjoying the seductions of Manhattan life – until they decided to move on. Part of their FOURTH ACT journey involves settling into a full-time bucolic life in the country, 2 hours North from Manhattan, entirely different from what they might have imagined in the past.

What I have learned from mentoring famous athletes. How becoming a stepdad to 2 young adults changed me. What prompted us to radically change the rhythm of our lives.

Zachary’s LinkedIn

It's wonderful to watch your kids grow, and to be a part of that growth. And I think that's where my manhood really benefited. To be a part of that growth, to recognize that, oh gosh, this is not going to be easy. There were lots of moments that were not easy at all. But just through the love and connection that we had, it gave so much to me and I see today that it get that it has given so much to them. And I continue to think to this day that I don't know that I would be where I am today. Had it not been for my family. For my wife, Vicki, and my two wonderful kids, Henry and Willie, they are just incredible.

Hey, this is Achim Nowak, executive coach and host of the MY FOURTH ACT podcast. If life is a five act play, how will you spend your FOURTH ACT? I have conversations with exceptional humans who have created bold and unexpected fourth acts, listen, and be inspired. And please rate us and subscribe on whatever platform you are listening on. Let's get started. I am just so happy to welcome Zach Minor to the MY FOURTH ACT podcast. Zach is a professional actor whose theater background has led him to over three decades of using drama to teach life skills to professional athletes. His clients include the NBA, the NFL, Major League Baseball, the National Hockey League and NFL youth coaches, and many colleges and universities. Zach has personally touched the lives of countless legendary athletes during this time. After decades of being diehard Manhattanites or resided in a beautiful loft in Tribeca. Zach and his wife, wicky, now live in the country a good two hours north of New York as part of their fourth act adventures, so welcome, Zach.

Thank you. Achim, how are you?

I'm good. I want to start with a little story. Because you and I first met, when we were in our 20s. We're in our 60s. Now it feels insane to say that. Here's a moment that I remember. And I don't know if you do or not. We had sort of lost touch. I hadn't seen in over 20 years. And I remember walking down terminal three in Chicago O'Hare. I was leaving to catch a flight. And you have this amazing voice. So I am walking toward my gate, and somebody with a voice that sounds just like Zack mine or passes me. And you're talking to somebody on the phone and I look up, and it's you. And I said, Hey, Zack, you may not remember this. But that was the moment when we said, well, let's stay in touch again. And I'm stressing this because you have this fantastic Actor's voice that I heard in that moment that all of our listeners would get to enjoy. Did you totally forget about this moment?

I have totally forgotten about that moment. Well, you know, it's interesting. Chicago O'Hare is one of those terminals where you see everyone. That's right. I used to say that about walking along Broadway in New York, you could walk along Broadway for 10 blocks, and you will see people that you know, Chicago here is one of those locations as well. So I don't remember that. But I'm glad it did happen.

It's fine that you know when your 60s that you forget stuff.

Some good things, some not so good things. Yeah, exactly. Good to forget. I

think that was a little dig just now. Okay. I love to start with, because you've had an extraordinary life, and you have an extraordinary life. And sometimes things happen that we cannot envision when we're when we're children. So when you are a young boy or teenager. Who did you think you want it to be when you grew up?

Oh gosh, I was the last of seven children and a very Catholic family. So we were at church every Sunday and often during the week. And as I was coming up in the church, I was an altar boy, I was the lead altar boy for a while. I was also ordained to serve communion, a Eucharistic minister and I was on that track. And I thought that well okay, maybe this is going to be the life that I'm going to live But then at the ripe old age of 13, I had the opportunity to be on stage on a different stage. And I was a co star. And there was that moment at the end of the show where I was able to take my curtain call, and this thunderous applause from the streets, because we were doing street theater at the time that happened, and it hit me. And I said, Oh, wow, is this the place? And well, I've been on stage ever since then.

I love that story. So if we can just take that moment, because applause, it feels good to the ego and the soul. But it also shows that we've had some impact on people, right, like somehow, people don't applaud if we haven't touched them in some kind of way. No,

that was it. There was a connection that was made. It was the first time that I had an actual momentous connection between being on the stage and this audience. I knew none of these people. These were people from the streets, we were in a very rundown part of Washington, DC, where we would do street theater. This was a few years right after the 1968 riots, after the death of Martin Luther King after the murder of Martin Luther King. And it was just momentous. We plan to be right there in the streets, we were delivering theater to the people, junkies, drug addicts, prostitutes, all kinds of folks would be around and also walking through our theater space. And we had to get used to that. But we would continue. And it was a wonderful organization workshops for careers in the arts in Washington, which eventually became the Duke Ellington High School for the Arts. Yes, it was just, it just hit me. It really hit me. And I remember that moment, clearly, as if it were yesterday.

And what I get from that moment, as well as people joke about sort of getting the bug right when you're in theater, but part of the bug that you have, and certainly have, look, your whole life is a desire to have an impact on people, right, which you've done through acting. But certainly, some of the work you've done with athletes, which is spectacular. The amazing transition in your life is that you are a trained actor, you also know about theatre and education techniques, which is a special specify a specific way of using theatre to explore issues and to learn about life. And then you started doing this work with young athletes who are entering the profession sponsored by these big leagues. How does one go from one to the other? Can you just give us the story before we go into the substance?

It was really by chance. Our company and you were a part of the company at the time, had different offshoots. And one of the offshoots was to do high school performances. And one of those high school performances was highlighted on the Today Show with Brian Gumbel, and Katie Couric. And that show was seen by the NBA, who at the time, were having some struggles with their players. It was the 80s it was the time of sex, drugs and rock and roll in the 80s. And they were making too much money in the nightlife and it was all crashing. They needed an education program, that show became one of the highlights for the NBA, to educate their players about certain circumstances that they might encounter about making good decisions and understanding conflict in their lives, and how to manage that. I had the opportunity one of those years to travel with that show to be a part of the NBA Rookie program. And we connected we really connected Tom sach Sanders, who has nine championship rings with the NBA, he and I really connected, we became friends over the years, I began to directly consult to the NBA, to create programming for their players, because I was able to establish that connection. You know, using theater as an educational tool, the theater becomes something that you look at objectively. But of course, subjectively you begin to wonder about your own life and your own decisions that you make. Those connections were really important and valuable to the NBA, for their players. And, again, I was lucky to be able to transition into that. And then from there by word of mouth, it went from the NBA to Major League Baseball to the National Football League to the National Hockey League. It's been a wonderful, wonderful 30 year experience, and I've really enjoyed it.

I've been I was at that first NBA rookie training, so I have a sense of the energy in the room, when actors are performing scenarios that the audience could be facing, you know, and then there is brainstorming around the decisions you make and the choices you have, when you face certain pressures. So the actors are the catalyst for the kind of situations that young players are facing. And it really just creates a deep investigation of the choices you have and the decisions you have to make. And the things that you're facing. Am I summarizing that correctly,

you are the discussions would become very rich, when they come off of what happens at this on the stage. And that richness goes into the individuals. And we can easily go much, much deeper with the individuals with the groups with these athletes, these young young athletes about to enter a life that they have very little knowledge about. Sure they know how to play the game, but do you know how to live this life. And we're going to give you some ideas, some challenges, some aspects of that life that you might not understand. But you will need to wrestle with. And then of course, from that understanding, we would have the psychologist there to carry on in breakout groups. And the breakout groups would become very, very powerful at that time. And of course, I would also bring in some of my personal experiences to the athletes. One of which I'll quick see if I can make this

a quick story. You don't have to make it quick.

I was working with the NFL. And this was in probably no July that I was working with them. And I had had an experience earlier that summer with my wife. We were out at a movie watching James Bond movie, you know, ways kicking people's butts. There were these two young people behind me at this time. And they were just talking and talking. My wife turns around to them says, Can you please stop, I turn around to them try to get them to stop. My wife gets really frustrated, goes out and gets the manager manager comes in. These are the two Okay, great you to come on. Let's go get out of here. There was sitting in the room directly behind us. And as they are walking out, the young man pushes my wife's head like that. And my wife turns to me said what in the world? He He touched me he hit me. So then I saw a fire I saw read and I followed the manager and these young people out into the lobby. And I call to this young man. I said, Hey, did you touch my wife? And he looked at me and the crowd started to gather there. Of course, I've got this voice that kind of brings a crowd around. So the young man walked up to me. And he said, Yeah, I did. And he put his hand on me showing how he had touched my wife. I grabbed his hand. And I'm thinking in my head, my mantra, which I work with these athletes about all the time, choices, decisions, and consequences. I had to think quickly, what was I going to do, I was in a rage. And this young man had now pushed me and I had his hand in my hand. I thought in my mind very quickly how I could easily break each of his fingers. That's right. And then I thought, This crowd is around me. This is a young white man. And then most of the crowd is white as well. And I'm a big black man, what's going to happen if I hurt this kid. So I let go of his hand. And I speak to the young lady that he's with. And I said, you know, one day, his behavior is going to get you hurt. And I just turned and walked back into the theater to watch the movie. I told that story to the athletes, and they were incredulous. How could you not hurt that he touched your wife, they've seen a lot of layers. So well, you know, you can do things to him and not be liable. But it was important for them to understand about control, personal control, self control, even though it's something that is disturbing to you. And it stays with me even today. But I told that story and in the breakouts for that day. That's all they wanted to talk about with those psychologists. How do you do that? Why do you do that? What's the reasoning behind that? Is that self control? Is it giving up? Is it being a pussy? No. It's about continuing with your Career understanding that there are some challenges that you will need to walk away from things that don't matter so much in the moment. But you learn from, and we do better by, because we are developing ourselves. And that choices, decisions consequences, is my mantra and is a phrase that has stayed with me and I use it to this day for myself, as I make decisions.

Well, what I love about this story is it illustrates so beautifully the pressures, the more famous you are, the more high li visible, you are, no more pressures you will face. But what I perhaps love even more is that you use yourself as a vehicle to teach, right and you use your own example. And all of us, we talked about you appreciating the impact you had as an actor when you're doing street theater. But this was Zachary the person having an impact by telling his story. That's so cool, right?

Well, one of the struggles is manhood with professional athletes, what is a man? How do you establish that? And what is a man in society? And how do we broaden that idea of who we are? As individuals in society? Do we fall back on what we believe we should do? Or do we make adjustments and grow as an individual and become better? So it was it was a very rich discussion, I've used it in a number of different programs, it generally has the same impact, because it is a very personal story, a very meaningful story to me, and something that helps me to guide my life.

It makes so much sense. Word from your sponsor. That's me. I invite you to go to the website associated with this podcast www.my, fourth active.com, you will find other equally inspiring conversation with great humans. And you will also learn more about the my fourth act mastermind groups where cool people figure out how to chart their own fourth acts. Please check it out. And now back to the conversation. Of two doors in my mind that I could walk through right now in this conversation. So let me go to the personal door first, or you talk about so what does it mean to be a man? When I first met you, you had a wife, you have a different wife now, this wife came with two children. You became a father to children that came with your second wife? And can you talk a little bit about what it was like to suddenly become a father how that shaped you as a man the experience of that?

Well, when I married wicky, I was at an age where I wasn't sure that I was going to even be a father. Yeah. And I met these two kids. Well, first, of course, I met and fell in love with wicky, an amazing producer and director of theater. And she's always been on that side of theater. And we connected

stop you for a moment because I met wicky and since we're talking about manhood, as our listeners listened to you, the point I want to make is you chose to marry a powerful, successful woman creative, perhaps willful at times. And many men who are not comfortable with their masculinity will shy away from a woman man like that. I mean, I just want to create that context, as you tell the story. So sorry to interrupt you, but go on. Yes. All

right. Yes, she is a strong, powerful woman has always had executive positions where she was in charge. Yeah, she worked for the city of New York. In meeting her, that connection was there. Because she spent a lot of time in theater, she was the director. She was the manager of, of La MaMa, experimental theater in the East Village for a number of years, and really helped that organization to grow. May

I interrupt you one more time for non theater people. La MaMa is a legendary legendary downtown theater that created some of the most innovative a sponsor them in innovative theater in theater history coming out of Manhattan. So let me allow me to the context. Yeah. Oh,

absolutely. And that gives credence to who she actually is. Yeah. So this very, very powerful woman. We were actually introduced by another friend of ours cast Thomas and we connected. We fell in love. Then I met these kids. I didn't really plan on getting married. But I met these kids. And my son Henry was about four or five at the time. And he just wanted someone to love, he wanted another man to love and to hug and to, to be a part of his life. His biological father was not that I'll just say that he was not a very affectionate or connecting individual, and, in many ways, very, very difficult. So Henry, he and I really connected and bonded. My daughter, not so much initially, she was not really ready to bring someone else into the family. So we had to go through some discussions and conversations about what was good and what was not good. And I remember her saying, well, we don't need you now.

She literally said that. He said

that, yes. Ah, but I was persistent. And I hung in there. And I kept working with her being a part of their lives, walking them to school, and it just became such a family unit. We actually all fell in love with each other. And yeah, I could feel that I could really feel that and she and I are so close today. She's actually a teacher at New York University, where we once were, that's right. She's a sociology teachers there. And she's doing very, very well. It's wonderful to watch your kids grow, and to be a part of that growth. And I think that's where my manhood really benefited. To be a part of that growth, to recognize that, oh, gosh, this is not going to be easy. There were lots of moments that were not easy at all. But just through the love and connection that we had. It gave so much to me. And I see today that it gives that it has given so much to them. And I continue to think to this day that I don't know that I would be where I am today. Had it not been for my family. For my wife, wicky, and my two wonderful kids, Henry and Willie. They are just incredible. And they continue to feed me they continue to challenge me. Definitely there's the challenges are still there, even though they're young adults. Yes. But love is just something that I can't do without.

Now you just talked about how your children have fed you. After 30 plus years of supporting young athletes, many of whom became really, really famous. If I use the same language, how have they fed you? or what have you learned from the encounters with them, either about them or about you?

I guess I've learned that there's this human connection that all of us have. People see these young athletes, these stars, these celebrities as almost untouchable. And I've been very, very fortunate to make the untouchable. touchable because we connect because we can talk not only in our meetings and our sessions, but outside of that. Yeah, I continue to maintain many of those relationships. One of my good friends is Eddie George. He wanted Heisman trophy at Ohio State University, Heisman Trophy is one of the highest trophies that you can get in college collegiate athletics.

I know you said that for somebody stupid like me. I appreciate it.

Well, now he has gone on. He played 11 or 12 years in the NFL. He has also become a bit of a renaissance man. He's done stage work. He's been on Broadway. I haven't been on Broadway. He's been on Broadway in the show Chicago and did a stint on Broadway and has traveled all over all over the country to be an actor. And now he is a coach of a traditionally black college. Yeah, at Tennessee State. So he's having that wonderful life as well. And again, he says to me, I want to touch more lives. And that's something that resonates with me also belies that I'm able to To touch, in the work in sports, in executive coaching, in giving speeches that lives that I'm able to touch, and that is really special to me. Because I never imagined that I'd be doing anything like that. I think I saw myself possibly on stage, and maybe connecting that way and touching lives that way, maybe signing an autograph or two, but not in the way that it has happened. Now, through my work with professional athletes, there's a real connection that's there. So it's really given me a lot of support over the years to know that this is a place where you belong. Yeah, I didn't think that I would ever be in sports. Sure, I played sports as a kid. But when I transitioned to theater, oh, gosh, that was my life. And I never thought that I would have any connection to sports. So it's wonderful to have these moments to be able to connect with some of these athletes online, through LinkedIn, and they continue to contact me, and we have great discussions. But I continue to understand that there are more steps to where I'm going. Because I think all of the experiences that I've had in my life have complemented each other and taken me on this path, I would not be where I am, if I hadn't had these moments that again, complement each other and complement my life, so that they helped to build me up. And give me a sense of accomplishment and comfort. As I approach later years in my life.

You mean in your 60s 60s? Yes, I had so many thoughts going through my head as you were talking, which is beautiful, the way you pulled a lot of themes together. But I want to test an idea with you. I think the hardest thing and I'm testing this for you and our listeners, the hardest thing is to maybe let go of an idea of what it should look like what success should look like, and step into something else that might even be bigger, that might be more impactful but doesn't match what we originally had envisioned in a way that's happened for you. Can you talk about that? Some more?

Well, I've said to people, every now and then, my life was supposed to be different. I'm supposed to be in the same audition room with with Denzel Washington. That's right. That's what I'm supposed to be doing right now. That's what I had envisioned way back when 30 years ago that I'm going to be competing in those kinds of rooms to get those roles, you know, and I watch his life as it has grown and blossomed. We were actually in an audition room once. Uh huh. And I didn't get the role. He got the role. But there was that kind of moment there. But I continue to think about that. I think about it, I question it for a moment. And then I recognize that, wow, Zach, you've had just this extraordinary life. I even had a young. I was teaching drama out on Staten Island a couple of years ago. And one of the young women who she was struggling with her sexuality and trying to understand in high school is very, very difficult. When you struggle when you are struggling with your sexuality. Very lovely young woman. And well, we supported her Of course, you know, be who you want to be, not who they want you to be. And through that support she posted on Facebook recently. And you know, I can't believe it, but honored to think that I'm one of her top 10 most inspirational teachers that she's had in her life, she had listed me then I'm saying, I only saw you for two years. How can I be that instrumental or that influential or that memorable to you. But you know, in theater, you develop that connection? As we as you said earlier, we're improvising here. So through that improvisation that brings people closer to you. And it kind of blends you with individuals as you improvise because we're both thinking and improvising and working at the same idea. And well, theater is just that wonderful and has been that important in my life. And I'm so happy that it's been important and instrumental in other lives as well.

Well, I want to take our listeners to to Tribeca beautiful loft in which you and wiki and for a while your children live in Tribeca for wasn't always this sexy, glamorous part of Manhattan, but it's right now. You lived on a block I believe JFK Jr. lived on it other famous actress whose names I won't mention. So it was one of those places and you and wiki had this charmed life there. I remember wicky, your wife, light loves bicycle everywhere in Manhattan always loved that story. And then I want to get into this because you went through a transition that many people think about and many people fear. But you left your stunning loft in Tribeca. That was an intermediate step. But you live full time in the country a couple of hours north of New York City right now. Just describe what their process of leaving an amazing place and moving into a totally different way of living.

Well, one of the things about living in Tribeca when I first moved there, there were more rats than people say that

to say all the celebrities were the rats.

Well, no. And JFK Jr. was right down the street from us. He and my wife had worked on a couple of different projects. And it was really a shock when he died in his acts in that accident. You know, there are there memorable moments that we had down there. That's one of them. One of the other memorable moments was 911. Yeah, I was preparing to go to New Jersey to Newark Airport, to get on a flight to go to San Diego to fly to San Diego. And we were just having my final cup of coffee for getting in the car and going out to New Jersey, we heard the first plane go right over my head. It was that close. And I'm thinking okay, well, he's in trouble is going to dip in the water. And then we heard the explosion, felt that explosion, went up on the roof and saw what was happening. We were witnesses to all of that our kids, our son was about three blocks away from the towers and my wife, thinking that the towers were going to go off to the side. She ran down on her bike to get our son and about a dozen of his classmates and brought them back to our place. Sadly, they did see some of the horror on their way back. But we were able to salvage that moment and to have those kids there and let those kids call their parents to have that kind of connection. Again, we live through that. And then after the reconstruction started, celebrities began to move downtown to this wonderful triangle below canal, also known as Tribeca. Yes, the celebrities were there. And it was really more of a neighborhood he plays we would have block parties and all kinds of Halloween is coming up right now. And our kids during Halloween would go to some of the high end restaurants and go to the back door and receive all kinds of really good goodies. And it was that sort of neighborhood. It began to change slowly, with the onset of more and more celebrities and the high end apartments to lofts that were being reconstructed there. We saw this coming. My wife who also has a business degree from Yale, she's the money manager in the family. And she saw what was happening and saw that, okay, there were more and more rich, well to do folks moving into our building, the building was slowly changing. And we made a plan to go ahead and move out of that place that our kids knew only as their only home. But it was time making that transition was difficult because it was a very it is a very special part of Manhattan. It continues to be that it continues to draw a lot of folks. They there's a restaurant right on the corner Bobby's and some of your listeners might know of that name, because they're always streams of people there waiting on the weekends to get in. So it became a very popular place. But the neighborhood was changing. And it was time for us to go ahead and make a move. It was also the place that I had lived for the longest time in my life. Yeah, I lived there for 25 years, and I'd never lived in any other place for that long period of time. But we had this wonderful place up here in Germantown, New York. We had always planned for it to be our retirement place. And COVID Push the timing up. Yeah, made it happen a little quicker than we had suspected. But the trends Zishan from a very popular neighborhood like that, to a very bucolic place like German town where neighbors are not very close. It was very, very special. It was a time to adapt my sensibility from the life of the city, which is 24/7 of New York City. And it's always alive, it's always going. And you can always go out and drop into a museum or to a show, or anything else that was going or a concert or a music venue, to a very, very different lifestyle. And what I find is that I was actually ready for this. It also connects to something that was important. In my childhood, I grew up in Washington, DC lived in a row house, in northwest, we were the first African American family in that neighborhood there. So that was when I was about five years old. But growing up there, we began to know the neighbors, and we really became a nice neighborhood. But there was a house directly across the street, and maybe down a little bit across the street, on Longfellow street. But it was separate. From row houses, which are all connected, this was a separate house. And I remember helping the older gentleman help, I helped him bring groceries into the house. And I looked at the house and he had a fireplace in there. And I'm looking at this license, oh my gosh, this is really nice. So my dream at that point became to live in a house where I could walk completely around it. And this is really that house. So there's we've got five acres here, and it's really nice in my wife has wonderful, wonderful gardens. And we've really made it a beautiful place to be a nice place to live. We've got a great group of friends here, different from those downtown friends, but very connected, like many of those downtown friends, real neighbors, real people that we can rely on people that if there were an emergency that we know we could reach out to and get help with that. So we've developed that kind of sense of community that we had at one point in Tribeca. We've developed that here. And it's really, really wonderful to know that it's a place where we do have those kinds of friends that we can just sit on the porch and just talk and chit chat, we can talk about our lives, we can talk about our kids. And it's really, really special, really special. So it's been a wonderful transition, a challenging transition. scary at times are we going to be able to do this. But we've done it. However, we are going to be going down to the Metropolitan Opera this weekend to see the Terence Blanchard opera, nice at the Met. So we're looking forward to that. Well, we make some John's down there every now and then it's great, great to be able to do that. So only two hours.

We started this conversation with me, sort of reminding us of your voice. And people always told you, oh, you should do some voiceovers or whatever. And I know that as you are living in the country, you live Tribeca once an actor always an actor. And you're investigating doing more of this voiceover stuff. Can we finish our conversation with that because it's such a timeless gift?

Absolutely. We have a very good friend, Abigail McGrath, who has been a theatre producer and film producer and had one of those lives that we've all had, where we've plugged into different places, connecting through theater. And she has written a story about a dog, a children's story about a dog that follows the dog From its humble beginnings into a visit to New York during 911. Where the dog is then gets lost and reconnects with another family becomes a part of that new family. She asked me to if I would do the voiceover the narration voiceover for the story. And of course I said yes. And I've been able to create a bit of a studio here in German town in our home where I can work on that. So as I get into this voiceover I've got my OLED screen there and I can see what's going on. in what's happening with my voice and I can do different takes. I'm really enjoying that I've done a few narration voiceovers in my lifetime, but I foresee that I'll be able to do possibly even more of that now, because I do have the time to do it when I'm not playing tennis. And

oh, Robert, in Zach. Oh, God,

tennis is my passion. That's how I stay healthy. But voiceovers is one of those places. And I tried when I was in New York to knock on those doors and get those agents make that kind of thing happen. It never worked on that scale, for me, unfortunately. But I never give up. The voice is still there. And I'm hoping that I'll be able to really focus on that and continue with doing narration. Whether it's for books that friends write, or hopefully, maybe even commercials at one point. But one of the dreams has actually been to do a radio show. Here. My wife is really, really wonderful. There's Woodstock radio here. It's crossed the river over in Woodstock, old hippies. I mean, it's really, really a fun place to visit. But I had the opportunity where my wife gave a donation to Woodstock radio, and you could go on the radio for an hour. And I was able to do that, about two summers ago. Oh, gosh, I loved it so much. I love music. And I love being able to talk, one of the dreams that I had, at some point in my life was to do the midnight to six, radio show when people are up. And maybe it's very quiet, and to use the voice to be soothing, but also to be inspirational and maybe motivational to play music that if you're up, hey, let's use this music, to not only be up, but to be thinking and to possibly move ourselves forward. And maybe just before the dawn have that dream that we then realize. So that's one of the other things that I'm thinking of doing. I'm really inspired and motivated by your podcasts, possibly looking at maybe creating something like that. That is music driven, but also motivational, inspirational, so that people can listen to it, enjoy the music and enjoy some thoughts and ideas.

Lead, we're going to end with that phrase, The voice is still here and food for you. It's literal. But I think for our listeners use it as a metaphor. Whatever the voice is for you, at whatever age, the voice is still here. And you painted such a beautiful picture of how you want to continue to play with it. For any of our listeners who want to learn more about you and the work you do, what's the best place to find you?

Oh, gosh, that's a tough one. I would say probably on LinkedIn. Yeah. Actually, I've been working with another person that I've met on LinkedIn. And she's helping me to possibly construct an a website. You know, it's interesting when you've done so much. How do you put enough of that into a website? That is something that people can connect to and say, Oh, wow, that's a nice life there. So looking at ideas like that, and possibly creating a website that people can connect to, I can put some of those videos up as well. What I'm also working on is a book and I've been working on that for maybe too many years. But the working title is life lessons from the fields of play. Nice to think about some of the ideas and thoughts and strategies that we can learn from athletes and apply to our own lives, to be able to have success that leads us down a path to something that we can look back on and say Hmm, I've done okay.

Thank you so much for the gift of you and the gift of this conversation. Zach,

thank you so much came

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