In this inspiring episode of The One Small Change Podcast, host Yvonne McCoy welcomes guest Catharine O’Leary, founder of the Client Intelligence Agency, to unpack the real-life pivots and mindset shifts that power entrepreneurial success. Catharine opens up about her transition from a 30-year corporate career at global giants like Apple and Pepsi to launching her own business. Together, Yvonne and Catharine explore the necessity of flexibility, the importance of a guiding North Star, and why embracing small, strategic changes can produce transformational results over time. Listeners will learn the keys to finding the right clients, the value of saying "no" gracefully, and why mindset is the true engine behind lasting success.

Guest Bio:

Catharine O’Leary is the founder of the Client Intelligence Agency (CIA), bringing over three decades of expertise in market research and consumer insights for major brands such as Apple, Pepsi, and HP. After leaving the corporate world, Catharine specialized in helping entrepreneurs generate quality leads and deeply understand their ideal clients. With a passion for making data-driven decisions accessible to small businesses, she now empowers others to make meaningful business pivots and build authentic, energizing client relationships.

Chapters:

00:00 Transitioning from Corporate to Entrepreneurship

04:29 "Business Evolution Through Flexibility"

06:51 Avoid "Shiny Object" Distractions

10:51 Unified Life Balance Guide

14:47 Adapting to Disruptions

18:36 Business as Energy Exchange

21:57 "Optimize Your Client Match"24:25 Clients Willing to Invest Upfront

28:05 "Podcast Closure and Call-to-Action"

Quote From Guest:

“Business is a transference of energy. If you can keep your energy up to a certain level, that’s where real shift comes in.”

Links:

Join the CIA and access the Ideal Client Profile: joincianow.com Answer four questions about your business, and you’ll receive a detailed nine-page report outlining who your right clients are—demographics, psychographics, client journey, and more.

Welcome to the one small change, and I'm thrilled to embark on

this journey of exploration and transformation with you. And I'm your

host, Yvonne McCoy, and I bring almost thirty years of entrepreneurial

experience and passion for discovering growth through the power of

seemingly small change. And I wanna thank you for being on this

entrepreneurial journey with me. And this week, we are talking

with the amazing Catharine O'Leary, and she is

gonna be sharing some amazing things with you. So

how she had a unexpected or insignificant

change or decision that sparked a remarkable transformation and growth

in in her personal or professional business. So,

Catharine, thank you for joining me today. I'm so excited. And

we're live, so that's why we've got the fire trucks going on.

That's that's to give us the bells and whistles, so we're excited. Right?

I love the bells and whistles. That's the kind of day we've been having

today. Right? So tell us about yourself and

what you do and how that small change had an

impact on you. Yeah. Well, thank you, Yvonne, for having me on, and I'm

I'm excited to be here. So for those of you that have not met me,

know me, or virtually, seen me, my name is Catharine O'Leary.

I am the founder of the Client Intelligence Agency,

which is the, CIA. But I'm Canadian, so it's good. It's

it's not, you know, nothing to be afraid of. And I

spent thirty years in market research and consumer

insights in corporate working for the likes of

Apple and Pepsi and HP. And after thirty years of

doing that and asking a lot of questions of a lot

of people and helping businesses, you know, turn that information

into new products or bundles or innovation

or, you know, marketing messaging and so on, I decided to

leave corporate and to go out on my own.

And, you know, that wasn't a straight line. It never is, I don't think. Go

ahead. No. I was just gonna say for those people who aren't gonna leave

corporate, you know, that can be that can be even if you

plan it, it can be nerve wracking. I mean, there's

such a difference, but I I don't wanna stop you. Sorry. No. It is a

big difference. So, I will say that entrepreneurship is not for

the faint of heart. It is it's easier to work nine

to five for somebody else. I'm gonna tell you straight up. Is is something that

you do need to be passionate about. You do need to have a strong why

that is beyond your financial why. Financial why's are great,

but they're not gonna get you out of bed when you don't wanna get out

of bed. And when you don't have a boss anymore telling you you have to

get out of bed, it's really easy to stay in bed. You need to get

your butt out of bed. So I always say to people, you know,

entrepreneurship gives you the freedom to work as many hours as there are in a

day. Entrepreneurs are the only people on earth that, you know, quit quit a

forty hour a week job to work a hundred Yeah. Hours a week.

That's, you know, that's that's the mindset. Now when I

when I left Pepsi, which was my last, corporate,

job, which was a fantastic company to work with and for,

I started in, direct sales and network marketing,

which was a nice little, you know, toe in the water of

entrepreneurship, I think. It wasn't ever my end game. And when I

left that, I I, you know, some significant learnings, but the

biggest one was I was really good at lead

generation. So I was really good at getting people to, you know,

wanna get on a call with me or, you know, learn more about what I

was doing. But I was really bad at

quality lead generation. So I spent a lot

of time with people that had no idea what they were calling me

about. No no interest in moving forward. So I spent a lot of

time wasted on sales calls that didn't go anywhere and

advertising that didn't, you know, return any investment and

just kind of soul sucking time wasted. And, you know, you get to a

point, and I think every entrepreneur out there has it, where it's like,

oh, I either figure this out or I go back to corporate. Like,

I mean, like, there's, like, you know, the savings are gone,

The patience is gone. You know? Like, the the confidence

is struggling. And so for me, going back to corporate meant

three hours a day in the car commuting back and forth to the city. And

I did not like that. That was my nonnegotiable. I'm not getting

back in the car, so I'm gonna figure this out. So I I, you know,

I started my actual own business where I was creating all

of the, the conversations and all the products and

everything. And, you know, I think that the biggest change, it

was a little change, but the biggest change that I

made was that nothing is set in stone. So

even though I started one way and I started, you know, creating

quiz funnels for, solo preneurs and entrepreneurs to help them

with lead generation. Last summer, I kind of

blew everything up and recreated things into the client

intelligence agency because I really wanted to focus in on

what clients were telling us and how to use that information to better serve them.

And I wanted to help businesses do that. But because I was

flexible and allowed myself to pivot and to move

those micro changes become macro changes, you know, over the

period of a year. You know, one of the things that I say is that,

you know, a small change if you think of the spokes of a bicycle,

at the center, it's the spokes are together. And as they go

out more, that small change gets

bigger and bigger and the impact that you have is bigger, but it

starts out small. And I think you said a couple of things that were just

really, really important, and that is you implied

that when you're working a job, you have structure.

Right? It's not necessarily your structure, but you have structure.

When you're an entrepreneur, you're kinda footloose

and fancy free. And and and I think that there's a part of us that's

like, oh, this is the best thing. I can do this whenever. And what you

find yourself saying is, oh, I didn't get to this today or I didn't you

know? So that's that's, you know, one of the changes. And plus the

fact that you have all these people to back you up when you're in corporate,

now you have to be all those people. Yeah. You wear a lot of

hats. You do. You wear a lot of hats. But I think the

thing the big thing that you said that is probably

I think the thing that is the hardest is being flexible.

And part of being flexible and adaptable

has to do with having your own North Star and being

anchored because you can be drawn in so many directions.

So can you talk about that a little bit and what you found that people,

you know, the fact that they have that problem focusing

and Yeah. Well, and I know that a lot of entrepreneurs,

myself included, so I put my hand up for this one. You start chasing the

shiny objects. Right? Like, if I just do this, if I just do this

podcasting course, if I just do this, you know, 7 figure something something,

if I just do this, you know, other thing, and you go coach

shopping and course shopping, as I call it. And if you

don't have that North Star, what why am I doing this? And and

what, like, what is the the impact that I'm trying to have?

Then you're you're like, the tangents and the and the

the the money that you can spend and the time that you can

waste is almost infinite. And

so really kinda getting grounded, and that takes the one

thing that I've always said about entrepreneurship is that it's probably the most personal

development that you'll ever do. You do it daily. It

it might feel like when you first get started that you're on vacation all the

time because you don't have a schedule. Right? You can go to the coffee shop

and have, you know, lunch and every day, and you can, you know, you can

take Fridays off and you can do this and you can do that. And then

when you sit down and you realize, oh, dear. Like, I'm not gonna make

the mortgage this month or I'm, you know, like, I'm dipping into

my my savings. Then you have to kinda get back

into being structured, but you have to structure yourself. And I

don't know about you, Yvonne, but I fire myself almost weekly because,

like, I sometimes am not a very good employee. Find I find I

find that I quit on a regular

basis. I mean, I think that I think there's so many things that are going

on. First of all, you know, we are kind of brought up to believe, you

know, there's your your your professional and then there's your

personal, which is never really true. But

when you're an entrepreneur, it especially is not true. I mean, I

know when I first started working, my mom would call me up

and and I would say, mom, I can't talk to you know, she was older,

so I would answer the phone. And I'd say, I can't talk to you. I'm

working. She'd go, but you're home. That's what somebody thinks, you know, because

you're home, you know, that that you're you're free to do

whatever. But I think I think the other part is

that is so important is,

you know, you have to say to yourself I mean, time is a limited

commodity. It's nonrenewable. And so you have to say, what am I

solving for? And is this gonna really solve something, or is this

just slightly interesting? Which which is just a hard choice to make

because part of entrepreneurship is being able to be curious and

creative. Yep. Right? And so that's why that

North Star, I think, is so important. And, you know, what I what

I've called it is dead reckoning, and that's because it's a sailing

term. It sounds terrible, but the idea is when there wasn't

any GPS, you pick a point on the shore or a point, you know, in

the horizon because you couldn't control the

weather, you know, the the wind or the current. And so

you always have to say that. What am I solving for? And that

could be that could be when I do this,

I'm at a point where I want you know, I put in a lot of

work. I love what I do, but

I also know that I'm getting older and wanna spend more time doing

you know, enjoying things. And so how can the things that

I put in, you know, keep going without

me be having hands on it all the time, you know, and the

scaling so that I've got stuff that I really enjoy doing that, you know,

for some people that that's going from one on one to more groups and stuff

like that, but you, you know, you have to kinda look at that.

Yeah. And I think I think what people, like, what so you talked about kinda,

like, your personal life and your business life and that,

like, I don't like the the term work life balance anymore because I think

it's all harmony. And, honestly, if you've got the proper North Star, the North

Star is your North Star. It's not your North Star for personal and your North

Star for business. Exactly. Exactly. Right? It's your North Star, and it

should actually be guiding you regardless

of, you know, what what part of your your business or your personal or

your spiritual, whatever you're working on. So if you have one North

Star, then it's really working in harmony with all all of the different

parts of your your life. Where work life

balance came from really was from the corporate world where you're working nine to

five and then you only have the rest of the time of your day, twenty

four hours, everyone has them, but how you use them is up to you. So

if nine to five is always structured as business, that's where we get

into our heads that that's the way it always is, and that's not true. So

how do you like, again, entrepreneurship and running your own

business is personal development every day. So how do you

live in harmony every day, meaning that you're actually

giving, you know, feedback or, you know, giving attention to all sides of

your of your life. And that's not to say that there aren't seasons.

There's a season where you might be, you know, like, really focused

on your business and and, you know, you're you're saying no to some personal things.

You're saying no to that trip. You're saying no to that weekend away or whatever

because you need to focus on your business. That's okay. But there's gonna be some

seasons where you're like, yeah. No. I'm I'm I'm out. Like, I'm gone for the

month. Bye. I really like the queues call it harmony because

I think, you know, I think balance is a a misnomer. I

mean, I don't I don't know that you can so everything that comes

into that, that's where you are. So that whatever happens, that's

that's where you are. Do you know? And I like the idea of harmony that

you don't have conflicting when you say harmony, I think you don't have a lot

of conflicting things, which doesn't mean that you don't prioritize.

Exactly. But you have a way to prioritize. And and

sometimes it is by the season. And I, you know, I have a

productivity model because I like to do models, and it's called productivity

ahead. And the a stands for awareness. What is

the situation I'm in right now so that I

know what it is that, you know, as I set my goal and what I

have to do? I mean, I know so many people, women in particular, who,

like, I'm gonna, you know, I'm going to remodel my house.

I'm gonna start a new course. I'm gonna, you know, be

the, you know, the den mother for my kid. You know, you

pile the stuff on the plate, and you feel like you're not enough in any

of them. Right? So going back going back a little

bit to being flexible and adaptable, I think of entrepreneurship

this is what has helped me. I think of entrepreneurship as an experiment.

And so you do something I I used to think that you either

succeeded or you failed. That was the end result of your action. And

so if I didn't think I could succeed, I wouldn't try things. Yeah.

Right? And so I think the idea that you know, First of

all, the first the first problem is that you're shooting at a moving target.

Whatever you're preparing for in two months may

not even be the same thing. So you just kinda have to jump in and

do it now and be messy.

Right? So what are your thoughts about that? I mean, in terms of prioritizing

and Yeah. I mean, I think you set your

plans down, but you don't set them in stone. Yeah. So,

like, you yes. Absolutely. Have a business plan and and have

the goals and and, like, you know, you know, put those in I call it

put those in sand, and then, you know, kinda, you know, put your

your lifestyle or your five or ten year kind of

viewpoint more in stone, where it's the it's more

I want to be living this life. Like, what's your north star telling you to

to be living? So that harmony means that, you know, you can give

attention to your business when you need to, and then you can give more attention

to your personal life when you need to. But the the

flexibility, like and especially since COVID, I think that we just

all learned that things can change in a minute.

Right? Like, you know, like, we've got new

technologies. There's a lot of disruptions in in the

business world and and in, like, your personal life and all the rest of it.

The disruptions come and, again, this will goes back to being, like, you

know, a complete, you know,

advocate of personal development. When the disruptions come, how do you handle

them? Right? When the disruptions come,

you know, how do you pivot? Like, how do you, like like,

how do you your North Star is still there, but you might have to zig

and then zag to to come back to it. And I think being

the the people that, are more successful than not and

not every single successful person out there has failed forward.

Right? So every single successful person, it was either

successful or they learned. Right? There is no such thing as

failure. You will learn you So lean into that

and zig when you need to to zig or zag or whatever.

And and just and it's a game at the end of the

day. And I don't mean to be trite.

I'm just, like, saying that, you know, remember

why you got into it. Almost every single

entrepreneur that I know of that got into, you know, being their own business

and, you know, working the hundred hours instead of the forty a week

was because they wanted to have more fun and more freedom. So remember

that because if it's not fun and you're not getting more freedom, then

go back and pivot. Like, go back and figure that out and start

zigging and zagging so that you can get that. You know, it's interesting because

one of the strange things alright. So two things. One is

that in terms of personal development, you know,

entrepreneurs are really good at what they do. The level

that's before that is kind of the personal, you know,

learning leadership of I call it leadership of self leadership.

Right? And so they jump into, I'm really good at what I do

and, you know, project management kind of getting that project done.

But then in order to grow, you have to be good at leading other

people. And if you haven't learned how to lead yourself, it's hard to lead other

people. And so that is one of the challenges, I

think, of entrepreneurship. And so it you know, if

you're looking to take courses, it isn't

it's not necessarily that you wanna take a course that's gonna teach you how

to use a particular app or

whatever. Because in two months, that app

there's gonna be a better app. Right? So you wanna

spend that time in how do I get the most

for myself, how do I set my goals, how do I manage

myself so that I can manage other people and grow my business.

You can always hire somebody to do the

technical things or some of the other things, but there's only one

you that brings the essence and the goals of the business

to it. I think that is so important. And, you know, so many

people are like, when I get a coach, why are they talking to me about

mindset? That's I want sales. Right? Yeah. If you don't have

a good mindset about sales and yourself, you know, you can't hand

you know, I say to people, I I don't think about sales too much anymore

in the sense that, you know, scarcity. I need a client. I need a you

know, I don't do that anymore. It's like when I consider it a connection with

people, it's like, how can we help each other? Yeah. And

the right person will automatically say, I wanna work with you.

Right? And so, you know, that is a change in a

shift in mindset, which has impacted my whole

business. But that being flexible to see that there are other opportunities

with people and stuff I think are is is really important. I mean

So there's a there's a couple of things that came to mind. One

is that business is a transfer of energy.

So as, like, you know, you were talking about, you know, like, how can we

help each other? How can we serve each other? You know, like, how can I

help you? How, you know, like that, how can I help your clients?

How can I, you know, impact more? Business is a

transference of energy. And if you can get in that, and that's a mindset

shift from a transference of money, a transference of a

currency, because the currency is that will come.

If you can keep your energy up to a certain level,

not to get all woo woo on people, I am an economist, so they, like,

you know, it's a little bit of a fine line for me. But, you know,

it is a transference of, not to get boo boo, but it is a transference

of energy. And any single millionaire or billionaire

that I have heard talk or have had, you know, the the privilege of

talking to, they will say the same thing. That, you know, once you

get into out out of the game of currency and into the game

of of energy, that's where real shift comes in.

And I gotta say that 90% of business and entrepreneurship is mindset.

You know, like, it's it's getting, you know, out of

imposter syndrome. You know? Showing up

authentically and in integrity. You know? Getting

into the, you know, into your own value and value set and

core and NorthStar. Like, everything we're talking about, none of that

kind none or I I shouldn't say that. Most of what

comes out of a heart of our business review may not be that.

Right? But that is actually what's driving a lot of business,

especially now. When I got my MBA,

they had a case study, and I won't go into it because we don't have

time. But the bottom line is I was the only purse I was older than

most of the people in the class, and I was the only person everybody else

said, fire this lady who'd been with the company for twenty years. And

I said, are you kidding? This lady is like gold. I mean, she

trained everybody that got promoted and stuff. Just put her someplace else.

And my teacher said to me, you don't intend to work

for a big corporation, do you? You're gonna work with small businesses.

Right? And I'm like, But the thing is luckily,

the life has kinda caught up a little bit more that people are valuable

assets. Thank god. Alright. So you and I have talked

before, and I know that we could keep talking. But I need to

know if you've got a gift so we have time to talk about that. And

then I wanna make sure that we've got some action steps that we can take

away. Perfect. Yeah. So for those of you that

have a business and are running, getting clients and,

learning more about your clients, my my big thing is how

do we make sure that we connect with our ideal clients in in

a deeper way. And so one of the things that I did was actually

create something called the ideal client profile. And the ideal

client profile is is just four questions about your business and will

actually give you a report on your ideal client. The

demographics, psychographics, client journey, also is a really

good, great, you know, kind of marketing and sales information for you.

But it's really to kinda help, you know, do some of that market research for

you and that us as small businesses or as entrepreneurs, we tend not to

do. So what corporate does really well, it's what we tend not to do. So

I wanted to solve for that. So if you go to join

cianow.com, you will get to

access to the ideal client profile and I encourage you to

use that both from a perspective of finding out

what your ideal client likes and is challenged with and how you might be able

to help them. But also to put your,

put your information through and find out, do you really wanna work with the people

that it comes out with? Because there might be a problem with whether you're describing

your business, and you might be attracting the wrong people that you're like, oh my

god. I don't wanna work with that person. That's awful. Like, I I can't think

of anything worse. Like, because we don't wanna get into the we don't wanna get

into the I have to fire these clients, and I've done that before. And and

it's not fun. I've done in corporate, and I've done it for myself, and it's

not fun. So, you know, making sure that you are talking

about yourself in a way that attracts the ideal client and then deepening that

relationship, that's what I was trying to do with that. And and that

is so important. I mean, I think that it's funny

because I call it your right client because I feel like ideal is people you

know? But one of the things that happens, one of the values of this

is you get to say no you know, to people. We're

not not no, but you get to say, you know, I don't think we're a

good match, or you're not in the right place. You know? You have to come

back later, or you're too advanced for what I do. And and that is

the ability you say no is such a freeing thing, and we and

it's something that we've never been taught to do. And I and I

I would take that a step further and say, you know, say no with service.

Right? So Yeah. Know what? We are it's not we're not a

right fit. Like, you know, like, it's it's it's not gonna be good for you.

It's not gonna be good for me. But, you know, like like, I'm not your

person, and that's okay. Like, there are a lot of people that do

what I do. They don't do in the same way, but that's okay. If I'm

not your person and we're not vibing, if we're if it's not me, like,

go find your person. Right? That's what I want for you. I want you to

go find your person that's gonna help you grow if if it's coach, if it's

a mentor. I also want you to find your ideal clients that light you up.

That, like, you know, that are become part of your North Star. I get

to run my mastermind today with these people that are incredible

people, and I love, like, spending time with them. It shouldn't be,

dear lord, it's 08:30 and I have to get up. We did that. Right?

Like like, that was corporate. We did that. That's not what I want for people,

and I'm sure that's not what you want for yourself. And and the other

part is that the right people are willing to pay you what

you're worth. Yeah. Know what you're asking. They don't wanna nickel and dime you

and that kind of stuff. I mean, I find since I've started and shifted,

you know, attract your right client with your unique power, one of the things that's

so interesting is that, typically, before we go through whatever

connection call we're having, you know, the you know, when we get to,

let let me see what I can do for you or whatever, you know, or

what you need. They're like, well, how do I pay you? What is it you

know, you know, how can I get started? You know, that kind of thing. And

it which is much different than, well, you know, do you need to take time

to do this? Do you need to, you know yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever it

is that it is that, you know, people have to and some of it is,

you know, they honestly need to do that to get ready to do the work.

But it is such a change and it's such a joy,

you know. And and and I remember the first time I was talking to somebody,

and I said, I'm just you know, I'm gonna put the payment link

in and, you know, beef and we got off on a tangent. Before we

were finished, the payment was there, which is like,

yes. This is the right person. Yeah.

Yeah. Alright. So, again, because we have time constraints, if

you were to tell people a couple of action steps to take, obviously,

doing this quiz is the first one. What else would

you have them do? Oh, that's a great question. So I think have them do

with the quiz once they get the results. I mean, that could be Yeah. Well,

so it is a nine page report, so it's gonna take a second to read

through it. But the first thing I would do, I would say is, first of

all, just double check, like, is this the right person? Like, do you wanna be

working with a hundred of these people? Because the answer is if the answer is

no, take the quiz again and change your answers to the quiz. Right? So change

the way you're describing your business until you get to a place where, you

know, you're like, yes, those people. Right? Those those are the people that I wanna

work with. And then and then, you know, look through that report.

There's there are golden nuggets all through there for your messaging

and, you know, new social posts maybe that you can put out or that's a

really good idea. I hadn't thought of that. You know, mark it up, like print

it out and mark it up with a highlighter or, you know, put it in

your, you know, your tablet and mark it up and, you know, you know, have

it as your grounding part of your business. And then the other thing

I would say is don't skip the foundational work

for your business. Right? Don't skip don't there

there is almost nobody that is an overnight success,

like, $7,000,000 or whatever. It took everyone ten,

twelve, a hundred years, whatever. Where you heard an actor say, yeah. It only took

me, like, ten years to be an overnight success. To be an overnight success. Right?

Like like, that doesn't like, that's not a thing. Or it's very rare,

like, a lot rarer than you would think. So don't skip the fundamentals

because there's nothing worse, and I've done it, nothing worse to

getting to, like, okay. I've got the business and it's kinda going and

it's guerrilla warfare because you've got a whole bunch of bubble gum and

duct tape in the backroom that you haven't really built the system

or the or the mindset even for the

next step. So don't skip the the foundational work,

and and spend spend the time and the money there as

opposed to running off to be the next overnight wonder. Yeah. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Okay. Here we go. When was the last time

you did something new for the first time? When was

the last time I did something new for the first time?

Oh, probably about a week ago.

Yeah. About a week ago. Yeah. I went to a a new place to watch

my, niece do a dance competition, which I hadn't seen her live yet.

Fantastic. Fantastic. So, unfortunately, we have

to bring this to a close, and it always happens because it's like you kinda

get warmed up and then then then it's time to go. So I need to

make sure that I put in the commercial. And so be sure that you

subscribe and share and engage with this podcast on social media.

And why wouldn't you since you've got this great thing that you can share with

with people? The jointheCIA.com. And, you know,

one of the reasons that I do this is I feel this is my way

of giving back to the community and helping to fuel your quest for growth

and and impact. So I hope you will, you know, join me again

for the one small change as you embark on, you know,

trans transformations and changes in your vision so

that it's bolder and more innovative. Catharine,

what are your last words? What if you have to leave somebody with some last

words to ponder or think on, what would you say? Yeah.

So I would say join CIAnow.com. I'll see you on the

inside. Alright then. Remember, the

change is simple, but it's not always easy. Don't we know that? It takes

courage and resilience, and you have to step outside your comfort zone. So,

again, join me for the one small change. And until the next time,

stay curious. Catharine, thank you. Thanks.