For the Season 2 premiere of Odejuma, Harry chats with Victor Jackson, also known as Mr. GlamRockSoul, a creative director and artist who embodies Black queer magic. After his brother's passing and seven years away from music, a single moment in a rehearsal room changed everything. In this conversation, Victor traces the long road from a childhood in a church choir to standing fully in his own light as a Black queer man in the performing arts. He talks about faith, grief, and the particular labor of building safe spaces for yourself when the world isn't always willing to do so. There's tenderness here, and there's fire. And underneath it all, a reminder that your story, however ordinary it might feel from the inside, is worth telling. Because you deserve to live, to love, and to dance.

For Victor’s music and more: https://www.mrglamrocksoul.com/

Connect with Victor on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mrglamrocksoul

Subscribe to his Substack here: https://substack.com/@mrglamrocksoul

For more information on Harry, visit: https://www.harryitie.com/

Hi, my name is Harry Itie and welcome to Odejuma.

Odejuma is an ishakiri farewell that loosely translates to till tomorrow.

But for me, I look at it as a promise that there is so much more in life to look forward to.

And this interview driven storytelling podcast is rooted in that promise.

So as you take the time to listen, I want you to feel that as we go deeper with folks from across the Black diaspora, exploring the adventures, resilience, joy and the ordinary moments that change their lives, that you would have a good, hearty laugh or you find something to sit with.

Because there is power in the stories of everyday people and these stories are worth telling.

Hi, y'.

All.

Welcome to a brand new season of Odejoma.

I'm super excited to be back to bring you some of the most amazing stories.

This has been such a whirlwind of a year, but we're ready to kick things and get moving.

So if you're listening on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, wherever you're listening, feel free to follow.

That really helps.

And if you're watching on YouTube, please use the subscribe button so I so you can help me grow this platform.

Well, I'm going to jump right in.

I'm super excited.

I have one of the most talented people that I have.

No, that I know.

I don't know him personally, but I'm about to get to know him a little bit.

But yeah, he's super talented.

And I have Victor Jackson, aka Mr. Glamrock Soul on Odd today.

Hi, Victor, how are you doing?

I'm doing great, Harry.

Thank you for having me.

I'm very, very grateful to be here.

No problem at all.

And like I said, you are our first guest this season, so I'm really excited to dive right in.

You know, I get to know you a little bit better.

Everybody's familiar with you and your work, whether they, whether they know you personally when I know you from black queer spaces, or that they know you from reality TV like, you know, real houses of Atlanta.

But who is Victor Jackson?

Away from all of the, the assumptions people might have, who are you in depth?

Victor Jackson is a performing artist, a creative director, you know, by trade.

But I think as a person, I'm a, I'm a creative thinker.

I've shown up in a lot of spaces throughout my life, whether it was school or church or, you know, stage recording studio.

And it's been the thought process of a creative that has kept me moving and grooving.

And so, you know, whether as a brother with my Sisters Aisha and Jeri.

Whether as an uncle with my nephew, you know, as a son, as a friend, I believe the creative thought process is what keeps me grounded and what keeps me alive.

So.

So, yeah, that's a.

And I'm from College Park.

Never forget it.

Never forget it.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Okay, so you talk about being a creative thinker and all and all that good stuff.

When did you know that you had the creative bone in you?

When did the creative bug bite you?

And how has that led you to where you are?

Well, both of my parents met in choir in college, and so I'm the oldest of four siblings who all grew up singing and dancing.

And very early, I was choreographing performances for, like, family, friends and everything with my siblings, Vaughn, Ayesha, Andre.

And, yeah, it really awakened that creativity in me.

You know, I would pull the sheet, make a gown for my sister, get the patent leather hat, put it on my brother for his Michael Jackson number.

Like, I was very.

I was like, I have a cast, you know, and before I knew what the term choreographer was, what.

Before I knew what the job title of a creative director was, I always sought out information.

My mom would take us to the College park library.

I would rent out books about fashion history.

I would rent out original Broadway cast recordings and movie musicals.

And so it was always a hunger waiting to be fed.

And whether it was being fed by, you know, Kirk Franklin or a kickball change, it was finding.

Finding those morsels of motivation out in the real world.

And those morsels are really what built glam rock soul.

When we first started the company, the logo was a mirror ball, a disco ball.

And I wanted it to be that, because you don't get a disco ball unless you break the glass.

And it's a lot of broken pieces that have come together to make this light, you know, that people speak of.

But inside, you know, it can remain empty if you don't do the work to fill it.

And so I learned very early on that my creativity is.

Is a muscle that I must work, that I must train, and that I must feed in order for it to grow strong.

That is beautiful.

And as you were speaking, you mentioned Kirk Franken, and I read somewhere that you grew up kind of religious.

Yeah.

So how did I factor in into.

I'm the religious is good.

Into your artistry, and also into you coming into yourself as someone who's also, like, black and who's queer as well, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So my dad is a pastor.

My mom is an elementary school teacher, and so church was a very big part of my life.

Choir rehearsal, Bible study, Sunday school, vacation, Bible school.

But it's also where I danced for the first time.

It was one Easter Sunday.

I was 12 or 13.

I had never taken a dance class up until that point.

I would just watch like Cats and the Nutcracker when it came on public television during, like the telethons, the annual telethons.

And so I won one year for Easter, I was like, I don't want to do a speech anymore.

I want to dance.

And this was the year that Kirk Franklin had put out Lean on Me and I danced in like a full suit.

Hush Puppies, like everything.

This was a COGIC church, Church of God in Christ, if anyone is familiar.

And so it worked, was very traditional.

And my father ended up starting his own ministry.

It's a non denominational ministry.

And I was very active in that ministry and a lot of it really prepared me for the work that I do professionally.

Also, there were real moments of feeling, you know, of hearing the dogma of homosexuality being preached in both my home church and in other cities, sacred spaces.

And it took a lot of work for me.

And I'm 40 years old and I like to just always put that asterisk there because I, like, had my first boyfriend when I was 16.

And it's taken from 16 to 40 to really find the fullness of myself.

And I don't, I don't regret the amount of time that it's taken because I know that there are a lot of black queer ancestors who didn't even make it to this age to have this discovery.

So I honor the time that it's taken and I also honor the fruit that has resulted from that time.

The mentees that I have, the children that I have, you know, the people who tell me I moved to Atlanta to pursue dance because I saw you on Housewives, like seeing someone on Housewives dancing who didn't even take a dance class until they were 17.

It's like I'm a living, breathing testimony of what can happen when you just tap into who you are and believe in the power of your own authenticity.

That is beautiful to hear.

That is so beautiful to hear and to see that you, it's, it's showing very evident in your work.

It shows up in how you engage as well.

So that is pretty cool.

And, you know, I should have done this earlier as we started the.

As I started the interview.

Congratulations.

I saw that you're going to be in Cinderella at the True Colors Theater, which I've been to once.

I don't live in Atlanta.

I live in Minneapolis.

But I love Atlanta.

I'm there all the time.

And I've seen a show at True Colors before, and I really loved it, and so I'm excited.

What show did you see?

Judges?

African hair braiding.

Yes.

Yes.

So that was.

That's.

That is my favorite.

My favorite play as of now.

If I change my favorite musical is.

What is my favorite musical?

I don't know.

But for my play, I would say it is Jajas.

And I saw.

I saw the second time.

Ra Colors.

I'm bummed I won't be able to see because I think y' all end in June.

Well, we start in June.

We end.

We start in June.

Yes, we.

We start in June.

Our rehearsals start next month.

Start May 12th.

So I'll be playing a little double duty with Cinderella and Kandy for.

For a short while.

But I'm very excited to be in the cast of Cinderella.

A handful of productions with True Colors theater company.

The last time I did a show with them, it was the first Noelle, written by Jason.

Michael Webb.

Shout out to Jason.

And that was a beautiful moment.

And just at this point in my life, you know, after calling off my engagement, restarting my life, and kind of looking at the foundation on which I want to rebuild, theater has always been an important part of my creative process and my storytelling.

So when I saw that True Colors was doing Cinderella, directed and choreographed by Jewel Lane, music direction by Robbie, I was like, this is my invitation to re enter the space.

And it was a beautiful audition experience.

And honestly, after the audition experience, I was like, if this is all that I get, I'm fine.

Like, it just felt good to be back in the room.

And, yeah, I got more.

I got.

I got exactly what I needed.

And it's funny, I saw Jewel at a birthday party over the weekend.

He walked up to me, he said, honey, the prince is giving a ball.

I said, yes, yes.

And you're playing Lionel, which is also, like, an iconic character as well.

Very integral to the story, you know, and to the life of the prince and the.

The musical.

So that is so exciting.

So it runs from June up until when it runs.

I don't want to lie.

Our opening night is June 12, and we run until July 9, I want to say.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

But I. I will be reading for you.

I'm show you what they're going to do.

Amazing.

Thank you.

As you were speaking, though, you spoke about cutting off your engagement.

How are you feeling post that process?

What have you learned from that experience?

I don't.

We don't need to get into the nitty gritties because that's your personal life.

And I don't want to push if you don't want to have if you don't want to.

But that is also like a defining, you know, thing that happens to people.

So how are you in general and what have you.

What are you learning through this process?

Yeah, I'm great.

I'm great.

It has been, I'll say the last year of my life has been revelatory in a myriad of ways, but what it has revealed the most is how much love I'm surrounded by from my family to my tribe to collaborators and colleagues.

Like, I really got to have the full body affirmation that what I left does not compare to what I am currently in the middle of and what is to come.

And I just need it to be replanted in soil that is actually beneficial for me.

I feel like you will know a true by a tree, by its fruit.

And I was able to bear fruit in that season, and I'm proud of the fruit that I was able to bear in that season.

But I also know that there was fruit being manifested before that season.

There's fruit being manifested even now, and that there's more fruit for me to access.

And so I have done a lot of work.

There's been some good therapy sessions that are ongoing, some good journaling, some good meditating, some good cries, some good conversations.

But they've all reminded me that I'm surrounded by all the love that I need and that my love story starts within and it ends within and that no one could ever take that away from me.

So shout out to Whitney Houston.

But yeah, it's really.

It has been.

I've said the coldest winter ever.

Like, it was the coldest winter ever.

And it becomes that way when.

When you expect someone to show up and they don't and it's not the first time that it happened in my life.

I pray that it'll be the last.

But all I can do is remember that my love story begins and ends with me.

That puts the pen in my hand, that puts the choice in my hand, and that puts the power in my hand.

And most of the work that I've been doing over the past four months has been actively and intentionally calling my power back, calling my likeness back, calling my connections back, calling my gifts and talents back into the storehouse so that I can carve and create what is next for me.

So, yeah, I do not regret the decision.

I encourage anybody who feels like they're in a place and space that does not honor them to leave and to create the sanctuary that reflects their own divinity.

Thank you for sharing that.

That's really beautiful to hear.

And you talk about holding the pen again.

You know, what is the story that you're writing now with this pen?

You know, what is the and I know you talk about how your love story starts with you, but I think I also, I'm curious about like, what is in this new phase of Mr. Glam Ruxo's life?

You know, what is the story that you are looking to tell right now?

I believe the story that I'm actively telling is one of a phoenix rising.

Atlanta's like symbol or emblem is the phoenix.

I was born in Atlanta.

I was raised in College Park, Georgia.

And really the work and the life and the training that I've had in Atlanta set me on a path to do the work that I'm doing now.

And so I am remembering the phoenix and remembering that in order for a phoenix to rise, everything must burn down.

And so I am not being afraid of the ashes.

I'm not avoiding the ashes, nor am I looking to save things that need to be destroyed.

I am letting them burn so that the phoenix can rise.

And whether it was shooting choices and congratulations at the top of the year, whether it was the sold out show in Brooklyn, Rhythms of Romance that I did with my friend Ciara, whether it's just this show I do, I did, I'm done that I just did creative direction for with Kandi or going into this rehearsal process with Cinderella, the phoenix is rising and I don't have to worry about the ashes because they will soon fade away.

Yeah, that's the story.

And like I'm grateful to be in this season of April Showers.

And that was when really like the way or my role in showing up in the world shifted because he's my first nephew and just like seeing him and seeing his joy and seeing new life year to year, he's now three.

I'm so grateful that annually we get the showers of April to wash away the things that no longer serve us and to reinforce the things that make us our best self.

Because if without the annual check, we may not push those things out ourselves.

So, yeah, like, I'm telling the story of April showers now, but May flowers are on the way, and the prince is giving a ball, you know, so it's all those are there.

And I mean, that's the thing.

I'm not.

I'm not plotting anything out.

Like, I'm living my life.

I'm living my life.

I spent the last five years of my life planning a wedding, planning to be on this carpet, planning to be at this event, and really realizing that the things that were necessary are the things that stuck and the things that were not necessary are the things that are no longer there, and trusting that and trusting it enough to stay, as Duran says, to stay planted in the present.

Like, keep my feet where I'm planning and let that show me the beauty of all that's in this present moment.

Yeah, yeah, I'll just listen to you.

I just were thinking about how, you know, you have an idea when you're about to talk to someone.

If you like, you know, if you're interviewing someone, you have an idea, okay, I'm going to ask this, this, this, this, this, and then we go.

Got to go here.

But even I feel like what you're offering in this moment is even more powerful because I feel like there are a lot of people who are going through a space of, you know, figuring out what's next.

You know, I personally, you know, experience.

I'm experiencing that myself, going through a transition period in my life where, you know, if you had asked me in two years ago, this is where you're going to be, you know, I would have a completely different answer for you.

But to be in the.

In the process of the change and being.

Being in the process of getting, you know, going through the ashes, you know, can be very difficult.

And so to hear how you are reflecting on this moment in your life is very beautiful, and it's also quite inspiring as well.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I. Yeah, I've been.

I've been talking a lot within my tribe.

Like, we've been having these conversations internally.

I haven't been doing, like, a lot of IG lives or interviews this year because I've been.

Been wanting to process things on my own and not project onto anyone's situation.

And I did that post in February, like, announcing the engagement publicly.

It was mostly because at that point I realized I needed to create a clear separation And I couldn't rely on anybody else to do that for me.

And I think a lot of times when we're in moments of transition, whether it's personal or professional, we want to hold on to remnants of things or we let things hang on to us.

That will eventually start sucking the life out of you.

Like, it will eventually start pulling your life force and your creativity out of you.

And if you want to maintain it, you have to be okay with pulling things off of you.

You have to be okay with coming out of the transition anew.

Like, and that will sometimes mean with nothing.

That will sometimes mean at square one.

That will sometimes mean the ashes, but you know what I mean?

Beauty for ashes.

Give me a blank canvas.

Let's make a masterpiece.

It's like you are who you are, and everything that you've ever pulled out of yourself to bring into the world, there's a treasure trove there just waiting for you to tap back into it.

And we can tap into so many other things, wanting to be viable for the algorithm, wanting to be scalable in capitalism and, like, all those things.

But at the end of the day, be churchy.

Only what you do for Christ will last.

And so it's like, at the end of the day, you can try to do all of these things, but it's about how you make people feel.

Like, so Maya Angelou says, like, do, do, do, do, do.

But it's like, it's about how you make.

People will remember how you make them feel.

And so for me, I was like, I don't want to start projecting so much that I'm making people feel like, oh, love isn't possible.

I'll be single forever.

Transition is difficult.

I'll never see the other side of whatever moment I'm in.

It's like, seasons are seasons.

Trees go bare every winter.

The tree does not then uproot itself and leave the tree, trust its roots, and trust that every season the bloom will come, the fruit will come, like, the life will return.

But, like, in those moments of trusting your roots, you really gotta be okay with letting things go.

Do you have a church?

Do you have a church?

Can I be, you know, can I be in your congregation or something?

I do not have a.

There was a.

Funny.

There was a time where, like, growing up, a prophetess came to my father's church, and she had caught me up for prayer and, like, prayed over me, and she was like, you will preach to the nations.

I was, like, in my.

I would say, mid 20s at that point.

Oh, yeah.

I was about mid 20s at that point.

And so, like, I had already been on Housewives.

I had already done two tours for Lil Wayne.

I was starting to work with other artists here and there.

But she called me up, she prophesied.

She was like, you will.

You will preach to the nations.

The masses will hear your voice, like, boom, boom, boom.

And I looked at her and I was like, you know, I am already doing that.

Like, I'm preaching to housewives, rappers, and drug dealers.

And, like, that's my congregation.

Like, those are my people.

And it's like, when I look at the ministry of Jesus, I refer to it as the divine human example, because this is a divine being, you know, sent through the same portal of a woman that we are all sent through and sent here to honor her.

And in honoring her, he was able to honor the humanity and everyone that he encountered.

And the honoring of the humanity is mirroring the God in you.

The God in me.

The God in you, The God in me.

And so it's like, I'm treating you the way that I would honor God.

And in such, the same thing happens.

And it's like, for me, I'm not looking to lead a congregation.

I'm looking to, to exist in the world and unlock the leadership in everyone else.

You know what I mean?

Because, like, we are all leading someone.

Somebody is looking at all of us for their next step forward.

And if we can all believe again in the, like, divine power of our own authenticity, like, the leader, follower thing will be done, and we will exist in a.

In a world of leaders all encouraging each other to be our best selves.

Not to make more money, not to get more followers, not to be defined by outside metrics, but to be renewed by the transforming of our mind.

Okay.

Okay, cool.

I'm here for it.

I'm here.

I'm here for it.

You know, I feel like there's something.

Maybe there's a.

There's a thing in you that is,.

You know, there's something on the way.

There's something on the way.

I will be speaking.

I will be speaking more in the weeks to come.

Okay, that.

That is pretty cool.

You know, I, I, I, I like how we've gone with this conversation, but I want to, you know, bring us, you know, to your work and your artistry, which is also something that we need to highlight and talk about.

You are a dancer.

You do music, you're a storyteller.

What would you say is your preferred medium of expression when it comes to your creative work?

I don't have A preferred medium.

Like, at this point, like, literally the perspective of a.

Of a creative director.

It's constantly like making a smoothie, making a cocktail.

Making, like.

It's constantly like, putting these things together to tell a story.

It's like, you don't have a book without a cover and pages, and it's like, you need these things.

And so for me, like, as a choreographer, I'm listening to the music as a singer to determine my musicality.

And then once we're on stage, I'm like, well, what does it look like?

What is the look?

What is the mood board like?

And so I.

My favorite medium is me, because it is all coming through me, you know, And I'm grateful for that.

There's a moment in Michael the Movie, no spoilers, but, like, he's like, if I don't use this creativity that God gave me, if I don't use this creativity, God will give it to Prince.

And it's like, it's a really funny line, like, considering all the lore that we've been told.

But, like, it is also a truth that, like, I'm not like, I believe that what's for me is for me.

But I also believe that, like, the table is spread and the feast of the Lord is going on, so come and make you a plate.

And so, like, I like to be in process.

I like to be in a creative process.

I showed up, you know, I will show up to your sound check and be like, okay, well, what if we did this?

What if we pulled the hair over here?

Like, well, what if you didn't sing that verse?

What.

What am I Like, hey, my favorite medium is me.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

And as someone who did a lot of creative direction work.

You did choreography for other artists.

She did all of these things and then decided that, okay, fine, I'm in this space where I can do my own thing.

When did that shift happen?

Was that always the plan?

And how do you juggle, you know, your own dreams versus working and continue to, you know, help shape other artists and other creative people?

I like.

Yeah.

So my brother Von and I were 15 months apart.

We grew up singing together.

So the goal was always, like, we will.

Well, first we were a group.

We were totally blessed kids, and we, like, hit the Atlanta church circuit and, like, did that.

But as we got older, like, in my 20s, I started a band, so I was a lead singer for a band called 230.

And Von was going into the studio doing more, like, studio work, traditional R and B work.

So I was doing more like soul music, live music.

He was doing more like R and B.

And so when Von passed, I stepped away from music.

Thank you.

I stepped away from music to grief, honestly.

And I didn't see a world where I could pursue music without my brother being alive.

And so I took seven years away from music and directed my attention to choreography and creative direction.

Hood.

We were rehearsing Trouble for Kids Choice Awards performance with Iggy Azalea.

Iggy wasn't at rehearsal that day.

So I was walking through the choreo with Jen as like, Iggy.

And it got to the chorus, and I started singing the chorus so that she could sing the lead.

And after we did the run through, she turned to me and she was like, oh, you can sing.

And I was like, oh, thank you, girl.

Like, girl.

And she was like, no, no, no, no.

Like, you can really sing and you'll never be.

You'll never be fulfilled unless you use your voice.

Iggy was supposed to go on tour.

That, like, April tour got pushed back.

And then in June, they told us that the tour was being canceled.

And I was crossing the street in LA to go to the bus stop across the street from the Magic Johnson Fridays.

And God spoke to me clear as day and was like, go back to Atlanta and work on your music.

And at that point in my life, I had said I had avoided music for seven years.

And so I was like, you know, either you're going to do it now or you're.

You're gonna wait another however many years.

And there was something about the clarity of God's voice in that moment.

It wasn't like, do music and be famous.

It was like, this is the time for you to return to music.

It wasn't like, and you will win everything.

It was just, this is the time for you to return to music.

And when you talk about the balance of it, it is really about taking things off the scales that don't matter.

Like, I'm.

I'm only trying to balance the things that matter.

The things that don't matter.

I'm actively taking them off the Scale.

Because I know what I'm here to do.

I know who I'm here to work with, to impact, to connect with.

I try the spirit by the spirit.

Real talk.

Because I've lost so many people in my life.

Like, so many people have transitioned into the ancestral realm.

So I won't say I've lost them.

They've just.

They just exist in another space now.

And it's like I don't have space to grieve things that were never meant for me.

I would much rather remove them before the weight gets so heavy that I have to lift it off.

Like, I would much rather remove it where it's just a put down and a walk away.

And that has helped me really balance.

Like, I have a team with me.

Team GRS is with me, Candace and Bri and Sheena.

And like, I don't have to do everything because Bri, I mean, if I talk about last night, like, Bri went on the first tour that I choreographed for Kandy.

Candace has done worked with me on welcome to the Dungeon Volume 1, 2 and 3 and Sheena is on the COVID Candace and Sheena are on the COVID of my Mammy's Magic ep.

It's like I've been grateful for the people who have surrounded me and my tribe because that is really what allows me to do both.

And it's so interesting because when my brother transitioned, I felt like I couldn't do music without him.

But in his transition, he has been able to intercede on my behalf and put the people around me so that I am able to pour out and be refilled in my work.

That's beautiful.

What would you, if you could say anything to your brother right now, what would you say to him?

I would say thank you.

He and I have had extensive conversations over the last week, but I will say where we did our final rehearsal.

Prior do I did I'm done is like 10 minutes away from where my brother is buried.

So before I went to rehearsal, I went to visit my brother's grave site and we spoke and I went to rehearsal.

And yesterday while I was packing up costumes to go to rehearsal, I found an old photo album and there were pictures of me, him and DJ A1 who is Candy's DJ because we went to elementary, middle and high school together.

But like my brother Von has been present in this process.

My friend Terrell, my friend Mike, my friend Taiwan, my grandparents.

Like, I have an ancestral council and I take that ancestral council seriously because those are people who loved me while they were in this realm, and they.

They now see me from a different vantage point, and they're able to make sure that I have what I need as I go into the spaces that I am ordained to occupy.

That's beautiful to hear.

That really is beautiful to hear.

Thank you for sharing that.

Yeah, I just.

I just reflected a little bit of what you said.

That's beautiful to hear.

So thank you.

You talk about your creative partnership.

You've mentioned Kandy quite often throughout this conversation, and there has been a creative partnership that we've witnessed on the Atlanta Housewives up until now.

What is the thing that has sustained that creative partnership with her for this long that you've been working with her for?

I feel like.

Short answer, Real.

Recognize real.

That's.

Short answer, long answer.

I escaped.

Came to sing at my church, the same church that I danced at for the first time when I was 13.

They came to sing at that church when I was 8 because Latasha and Tameka's dad was a minister there.

So that was the first time that I saw four people from College park, four people from the south side make it.

And so that was the first glimpse.

The choir from Tri Cities High School came to my elementary school when I was in, like, third or fourth grade.

And I came home that day to my parents and was like, I need to go to Tri Cities High School.

Like, there's.

This has to happen.

And so there's something about Kandy's existence that has kind of just tracked enough ahead of me to show to be a possibility model at, like, every step of the way.

There was even a reality show that I competed on as a choreographer called welcome to Dreamland.

It was like this BET show with Jazzy Faye and Drumma Boy and told things.

But, like, Kandy was one of the final judges, and I don't even know if she remembers that I was on that show.

But our team ended up winning, and again, like, the possibility model continued to be sparked and sparked and sparked.

So I met Kandy, like, for the first time.

Well, not meeting, but, like, the first time we actually, like, sat down and talked was at her best friend Kwame's birthday party.

So Derek J.

Invited me as his plus of wine to Kwame's birthday dinner that Kandy was hosting.

And after we all went out to this live music place called Sugar Hill, shout out to Jay Carter.

Sugar Hill is no longer there, but it was just the perfect, like, cozy live music venue.

And Joy Gillum used to do.

She used to host open mics on Wednesday nights.

Joy if anybody doesn't know Joy, go listen to Tennessee Slim.

It's the bomb.

Just had an anniversary.

You will be blessed.

But Joy called me up on stage, and she was like, you know, usually people come up to sing, but this is Victor.

He is a dancer.

He's a choreographer.

We had worked together on a project with Michael Knight called Kitty's Litter.

You can Google that if you want to.

It's great.

It was a great, great cabaret show.

Joy performed, tweet performed.

But I got to work with Joy.

She called me up on stage that night.

So Derri J.

Is in the audience with Kandy and Kwame.

Joy calls me on stage.

She's like, normally, people come up here and sing, but tonight, y' all need to see him dance.

So band, just jam out, and he's gonna dance.

And literally, it was one of those moments where I was like, either I could be like, no, no, no, no, no.

Or I can trust and I can surrender.

And that was about a year after my brother Von had passed.

No, it was like a couple of months, honestly, after Von had passed and I had started working a little bit more.

But I was still raw.

I was still very vulnerable, and I danced.

I danced my heart out on that stage until I was done.

Walked off stage.

The first two people I saw were Anthony David and Indy Arie.

They both hugged me.

They're like, oh, my gosh, you were amazing.

Like, da, da, da, da, da.

And then I went back to sit in the section that we were all in, and Candy was like, hey, I'm about to be on Housewives, and I need a choreographer.

You want to work with me?

And, like, I did the first season with her.

After the first season, I launched my company, Glam Rock Soul Entertainment Group.

We had our launch party at Uptown Lounge when Peter Thomas was still owning it.

I ended up meeting Cynthia Bailey at Uptown before she became a housewife.

You know what I mean?

And it just all.

It seems like a story when I say it in succession like this.

But I always say, like, I didn't grow up dreaming of being on reality tv.

I just grew up wanting to use the gifts and talents that were, like, factory settings for me.

And it was like, if I can't use them at school, then I'll use them at church.

If I can't use them at church, then I'll do choreography for my friends for talent shows.

If I can't do it for my friends for talent shows, I'll style my friends who want to be models.

I was just like, I want to get this out, it was almost like if I didn't get it out, it would be earned.

And so the wonderful thing about Candy is, like, we did both go to Tri Cities High School, and we did both kind of get that same training of turning your struggles into storytelling, turning your life into lyric, and really making that be made manifest.

And so I think the thing that keeps us connected creatively is, like, she'll throw something out.

And I'm like, yeah.

Like, there is no, no.

It's all, yes.

And it's like, yeah, yeah.

And even if something is uneasy, it's like, yes, let's try it.

And if it doesn't work, then we can both agree that it doesn't work.

But it is, I think, this commitment to, like, storytelling at its truest, rawest form and not being tethered so much to people's opinions, but being more beholden to the responsibility to share the story.

This process with her has been a godsend.

The day that I posted that I called off my engagement on Valentine's Day, I went to see Candy and Juliette, and she hadn't seen my post.

So she was like, you by yourself?

You didn't come with nobody.

What do you mean you're coming?

And I was like, hey, girl, no, that's done.

You can go refer to the post.

You know what I mean?

Like, it just became that.

But, like, we talked it, and I was like, you know, and now we got a show to do.

She was like, yeah, we got a show to do.

And so it's been a beautiful moment.

You know, we have.

We grew up on the same side of town.

Both, like.

Both of our brothers have transitioned.

Her brother was older than her.

My brother was younger than me.

And even, like, our.

Our moms have, like, run into each other, like, running errands in the city.

Mama Joyce grabbed me when I got off stage last night, and she was like, I mean, I knew you could sing.

I didn't know you could sing like that.

Like, I'm so proud of you.

Like, I'm so.

You know, and it's like, I think at the end of the day, we are there to be, like, siblings in this process to really, like, look out for each other.

Yeah.

Because there are people there to do other things for both of us.

You know what I mean?

So.

But I think at the core, we're there to, like, look out for each other.

And I'm.

I'm grateful and humbled and honored that I've had the responsibility and the opportunity to collaborate with somebody like Kandi Burris, when you think about the records that she's written and you think about the proms you've been to, the birthday parties you've been to, the car, the road trips you've been on, like, so many of our memories are connected to her ability to write a record.

You know what I mean?

And so I really do appreciate the.

The multiple opportunities that I've had to collaborate with her over the years in the way that we've been able to grow alongside each other.

Yeah.

And y' all are experiencing similar life happenings in the moment.

You know, you are also.

You also.

Well, I don't.

I would say you did, but you did in a way, and now you're done as well.

And so it's like the parallels are there, you know, and that's.

You know, and I'm happy that you have that kinship to work with.

So that's pretty beautiful.

You talk about being an artist.

We haven't really divided.

We haven't even.

I don't know if.

What's the word?

We haven't really.

We have a.

Yes.

We haven't explored that piece.

I watched your tiny dick submission.

I thought it was really beautiful shot.

And it was.

You look really good.

You sounded really good there.

He belongs to the city.

Also a really nice.

You could see your.

I think the thing about your artistry and when.

Like for your music videos, for example, or, you know, when.

When you watch it, you can see the level of thoughts and the talent that goes into that.

So I'm.

I'm curious about what is that looking like for you?

Now, we've talked about, you know, the creative direction pieces.

We're talking about Cinderella, but now we're looking into the music aspect of Victor Jackson's work.

What is that looking like?

And what should the people be expecting?

Yeah, I have a show coming up on May here in Atlanta.

It is a show that is a concept that Montre.

Montre official.

Check out Montre that he's put in, that they're putting together for an upcoming release that they have.

And I'm very appreciative for the artists that are in my circle who call me out, who say, hey, hey, come here, Come over here.

Do this.

Just 10 minutes.

Here, take this mic.

Because it keeps me.

It keeps me in the thought process of an artist because it is very easy for me to consume myself with projects from clients and all those things.

And so there.

I've recently realized that a lot of the.

A lot of the speed bumps that came in recording and releasing this music was because I needed to release a version of myself to record these words.

And in releasing that version of myself with choices.

Congratulations, April Showers.

I've been doing a lot of archival work going back into my own music choices.

Congratulations.

And it's like, these are old records and these are old songs.

But the lyrics apply so much to, like, where I am now.

And it's been beautiful to reshoot them, re record them, re approach these records as I am rebuilding my strength and rebuilding my trust in myself and hearing this new voice for a first time.

I am 40, I am black, I am queer.

I have never existed in this earth realm before in this form.

And that is exhilarating to me and sometimes exhausting, but overall inspiring.

And so the music that is coming out is music that will be carrying you through the summer and fall with a little life situation happening in the fall.

And I'm excited about it.

I'm excited about it because I get to be me now and not be beholden to any version of me that has been expected, that has been required, or that has been coerced out of me.

I get to do this for me on my own terms, knowing that the antennas that it needs to hit it will connect with because all the past music has done that.

You know what I mean?

Like, I can trust.

I can trust the receipts and rest in it and move forward.

So, yes, a lot of forward motion will be happening this summer.

That is good to hear.

That is good to hear.

And also just want to name that.

You don't look like you're over 30.

Oh, it's like, oh, I'm 40.

I'm like, you know, are you.

Are you turning 40 this year, or are you trying.

No, I turned 41 in July.

Wow.

That is.

Yeah.

You look like you.

You look like you're 28.

Well, you know, God redeems the time.

God does redeem time.

And, you know, when you remove stress from your life, a lot of things are restored back into your existence sense.

And so you're feeling light, you're feeling free.

You know, in the words of.

Of my good, My good big sister's destiny's child, ain't no feeling like being free when your mind's made up and your heart's in the right place.

Okay.

Okay.

Shout out to Destiny's Child.

Always.

Yeah.

As someone who is, like you said, you're.

You're in your 40s now, you're black, you're queer.

What are the lessons that you wish that, you know, you could have taught your younger self?

Or let me rephrase it a little bit, right?

You're in your 40s, you're black, you're queer.

And there are lots of young black queer folks currently who are looking to, you know, explore and do a lot of creative work, whether it's dance music or whatever it is.

What is your advice to folks who are trying to navigate this industry, especially now, where everything is cutthroat, where, you know, there's so many, you know, the.

The industry.

The Internet has made the industry very open and free for all.

Yeah.

How would you advise folks and what would you tell them so that they can stand out and, you know, be their own person, especially navigating their blackness and their queerness through the process?

Yeah.

No, I would say learn to trust yourself over and over and over and over again.

Because the truth of the matter is, you are already the only you.

Like, the truth of the matter is there's already no one else like you.

They could not be like you no matter how much they tried.

They could wear the same look, they could go to the same place, they could eat the same thing.

Like it still will not.

They could wear the same fragrance.

It still would not translate on them the same way that it translates on you.

And so the sooner you can become comfortable with trusting the voice that is inside of you, the truth that is inside of you, the quicker you can come back to yourself when you hear outside voices, because you will hear outside voices, and all of them won't be negative.

Some of them will be there to guide you, to help you to.

You know what I mean?

But you still have to be able to apply that to your map.

Right.

You cannot jump off your path to jump onto somebody else's map.

And you should be wary of the people who do the same to you about constantly putting yourself in positions where you are challenged to trust yourself so that you can see that you can.

So that your nervous system can see that it can be trusted with you, so that your brain can and your heart can be trusted to be led by you.

Because the.

The inspiration, the ideas, the innovation that is coming up in you cannot be savored the same out of a different vessel.

Yeah, people always laugh at me when I'm, like, drinking wine and I'm like, no, baby, don't put the champagne in the red wine glass.

Because they operate through different.

Like, both.

Both the ingredients and the vessels operate differently.

They're all created and designed to work with each other, to give you an ideal experience.

And so it's like, don't look to pour yourself into vessels that don't serve you and vice versa.

At the end of the day, you want to contribute, but not at the cost of your own soul and your own consciousness.

So, like, get.

Get comfortable with hearing your voice and trusting yourself, because the more you do.

When you look at Jalen Josie in her new album, when you look at Justin Ross and the work that he's doing in the film he's about to be in, when you look at Leia and the new single that she just put out, when you look at Kandy on stage telling the story of how her relationship came together, broken apart, and how she was able to find a new lease on life through all of it.

It's like you're seeing people who, at some point in their journey, decided, I have to trust my voice.

And entrusting their voice, we are all being able to savor their innovation.

We are all being impacted by their storytelling.

And so that's what I would say to any young, creative, black, queer or otherwise.

Like, learn to.

And start getting comfortable with trusting your voice.

And as you were speaking, I was just thinking, and this is a little.

I feel like, for me personally, trusting my voice.

I feel like when I finally went through the process of, you're looking, you're a black, you're queer, you gotta lead into it, you gotta own who you are.

More queerness.

Cause, you know, I grew up in Nigeria, predominantly black country, so that wasn't really a thing to focus on, but, like, queerness piece like, okay, this is who you are.

I feel like I had a bust of creativity that, you know, I could not really explain.

Right.

And I'm curious if that was like, the same for you, you know, which, you know, tying back to someone who, you know, if you grow.

You grew up religious, would you say that?

Would you say that being in a space where your blackness and your queerness was, like, fully embraced has led you to, like you said, trusting yourself in a way that you probably would not have if you didn't.

I think I figured out that the responsibility to fully embrace my blackness and queerness was my responsibility and not anybody else's.

And that when I fully embraced it and didn't shy away from it, when I was sitting in a room with a rapper or didn't shy away from it when I was in, you know, front row at a church, for that matter.

Like, it became, hey, my nails are white.

And yes, I am singing at my friend's funeral.

And those are the truths.

Anybody who can't align with that truth, then like, that's for them to figure out.

Because I'm over here embracing me and embracing my tribe and embracing my missions, you know what I mean?

So like, I still stopped.

I stopped looking for someone else to embrace me because the only way that they can figure out how to embrace me is by seeing me embrace myself.

And so I stopped looking for that and I started illustrating that both in how I embrace myself and how I embrace other black, queer and trans people around me.

And it became, if you don't feel like you got any safe space anywhere else, I'll.

I want to constantly affirm you that I can be a safe space for you because I'm being a safe space for me.

You still don't have no control over whether the world will stop or not.

So what are you doing this for now?

Like when, when you do jump back into a pace of productivity, what is it for?

And it became to create safe spaces that I felt like I may not have had when I was growing up or when I was discovering my own uniqueness as a black person and as a queer person and learning how to appreciate it.

I was like, the best thing that I can do is just create spaces and bring the people into those spaces and trust, trust, you know that like, this is the mission and no mission is eternal.

Like, do the mission, complete the mission and move to the next mission.

Like, I think a lot of times we want our, we want our work to be like hours.

And I'm like, we're, we're.

Art is to feed people.

If every artist that you love kept all their pieces in their home, we would have nothing in any museum.

It's like, we gotta get out of what we're what.

Like we're trying to get from this and we gotta get into the practice of giving and receiving because that is what creates a healthy ecosystem.

And so, yeah, like, I want to, I want to make sure that people understand any acceptance that you are looking for starts with accepting yourself.

Amen.

Amen.

Okay, we're going to go to some rapid fire questions really quickly to just, you know, fill your.

Fill your pulse a little bit.

The first one is, what are the three songs currently on your playlist right now?

Freak by Jalen, Josie, Joy by Ray, and April Showers by myself.

Okay, Shout out to that.

If your journey had a soundtrack, what song represents where you are today?

Believe in yourself from the Wiz.

Okay.

Okay.

Who is your dream collaboration leaving and you know, on leaving Undead.

Ascended and ascended.

Yes.

Yes.

My dream collaboration ancestral is Prince Living Victoria Monet.

Okay, cool.

From your lips to God's ears.

Yeah.

What is your favorite TV show to binge?

My favorite TV show to binge is Chopped, the cooking reality show.

Yes.

I will sit down with a bag of chips and a bottle of wine and just watch Chop.

That is.

That's my tea.

I love Chopped.

And it's also very quick too.

It's a new contestants every episode.

You know, it doesn't get.

Yeah, I really love Chopped.

Yeah.

So you have a song called He Belongs to the City.

What is the thing that you believe that you have that belongs to the city?

Huh?

What's the thing that I have that belongs to the city?

My heart.

Atlanta has.

And I'll say.

I'll say the city.

The specific cities are Atlanta and New York.

They have my heart.

My.

My dad's from Atlanta.

My mom's from New York.

Okay.

I do, I do love both cities.

I love Atlanta for the culture, for, you know, it has every.

It has.

It's a dream.

I feel like that city has everything.

And I think New York.

I love Broadway and New York is just like, feeds my Broadway spirits.

Yeah, yeah.

It's the dream of Atlanta and the pace of New York, like.

Yes.

Captures my heart exactly.

What does a perfect Sunday look like for you?

A perfect Sunday for me looks like being at fcbc.

Shout out to FCBC in New York in person for service.

Going to brunch with my friend Alicia afterwards, taking a nap and then hitting it to Trappy to party with Leon and getting a sandwich from the bodega right there on the corner afterwards.

Perfect Sunday.

Perfect Sunday is a New York Sunday.

Now if it's in Atlanta Sunday, it's watching FCBC virtual and then going to Markets Bar and grill for their brunch buffet.

Okay.

Is FCBC a church?

Yes, it's First Corinthians Baptist Church in New York.

Actually.

The edifice, like the building they're in now used to Be a movie theater.

And my grandparents used to go there on dates.

So, like, it is.

And then that weekend went to fcbc, and I've been going there ever since.

So whenever I'm in New York, I'm at fcbc, and if I'm not there, I'm watching it online.

Okay, cool.

I'm gonna check it out.

Fcbc.

Yes.

FCBC nyc.

Shout out to Pastor Mike and Pastor Lakeisha and Pastor Diz and Pastor Trey and Reverend Alicia.

Okay.

Shout out to them.

And you said the brunch spot in Atlanta.

You said Marcus Bar and Grill.

Marcus Bar and Grill.

So if you do watch Chop, then you're familiar with Marcus Samuelson, Iron Chef, Top Chef.

Really, really.

Like, he owns Red Rooster, New York in the Miami location and other restaurants.

But he has a place in Atlanta called Markets Bar and Grill.

It's on Edgewood.

They have a brunch buffet.

It is delicious.

It is delicious.

I could name everything on the buffet, but this is rapid fire.

But check it out.

Yes, I just.

I'm gonna have to go there when I'm in Atlanta.

Okay, cool.

Edgewood is a little far, though.

It's like.

It's central.

It's central.

Depend.

I mean, it's central depending on where you're staying.

Yeah, it depends on where you're staying.

Okay, cool.

I have that on my list of places to go to.

Final rapid fire question.

What is your guilty pleasure?

My guilty pleasure?

I once said in an interview, I don't believe in guilty pleasures, but my guilty pleasure has now become, do say sidecar, because I don't really drink liquor as much anymore, and I'm.

I've turned into a wine girly.

So, yeah, I do say sidecar because I may or may not have a headache the next morning.

But it's so good.

It's about the experience, you know, the hangover.

But it's like, if the bartender can make a really good one, then I'm like, I want another one.

And then like, by that time, you've had two.

And then it's like, well, and it's just a.

It's a headache waiting to happen.

Now, once upon a time, it didn't matter, but now it does, you know?

And I tell folks that, you know, the key to not having a hangover in the morning.

I don't know if this is before me, though.

I go out, I have my drinks, I Have my fun.

I come back and I take an ibuprofen and I took an whatever.

Advil.

Whatever.

I take it.

Go to bed.

Like, don't forget, no matter how late you are when you get back, remember ticket.

I've tried the thing.

Milk thistle, BC powders, before carb loading, before bed, like, all those things.

And it has really boiled down to the fact that, like, me and liquor don't play like that.

No more.

Like, I need a nice glass, a chilled glass of Sauvignon Blanc.

And we're good.

That's it.

We love a Sauvignon blanc.

I probably should love Sauvignon Blanc.

We love sparkling rose and we love a shiraz.

Yeah.

Between us three.

We good.

We good.

Oh, Victor, what do you want to leave our listeners with as we wrap up this interview?

This has been such a great conversation.

Like I said, so many nuggets.

Well, what is the final thing you want to live our listeners with?

Yeah, I want to leave the listeners with these three things.

You deserve to live, you deserve to love, and you deserve to dance.

No matter what happens in your life, never forget those.

That's it.

You deserve to live, you deserve to love, you deserve to dance.

Thank you so much, Victor.

This has been such great conversation.

It's a beautiful way to start the season.

I feel like this is gonna be the energy for this season of this podcast.

We thank you for your vulnerability.

Thank you for your openness, and thank you for the light that you bring into the world and, you know, blessing us with your art.

Very, very much appreciative.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for allowing me the space and thank you for bringing the energy.

Like, even from when you reached out, like, I was looking forward to this conversation, we had to switch some scheduling things around, but I'm glad we did because I feel like this was the perfect time to have this conversation.

So thank you.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Thank you.

And if you've been watching or listening, thank you so much for being here till the end.

Don't forget, if you're watching on YouTube, use the subscribe button.

If you're listed on Apple, Spotify, wherever you'll listen to your podcast, follow our podcast Ode Juma and I will share everything you need to know about Victor in the description.

Links to the music videos, how to find them on Instagram, and everything that you need, I will share in the description.

Thank you so much for staying with us, O De Juma.