Episode Summary: Today's episode takes listeners on a journey, exploring Christmas celebrations from the past, present, and future, and linking these experiences to the broader challenges of climate change. 

Hosts Jenn, Kristina, and Leekei share their personal stories, reflecting on how their festive traditions intertwine with some of the themes of ‘A Christmas Carol’.

This conversation aims to inspire a transformation of the holiday season into a time of greater environmental awareness and compassionate action.

The episode delves into reimagining Christmas traditions through an eco-friendly lens, considering sustainable festive celebrations, and acknowledging those less privileged who are affected by climate change. 

It’s a dialogue about transforming holiday cheer into meaningful, climate-aware actions, encompassing the joy of giving and inclusive celebration.

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac (one of Amazon best-selling books of the year!), visit thecarbonalmanac.org

Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang, Jenn Swanson and Kristina Horning.

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France. 

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and community Connector, helping people help themselves. 

Kristina has a background in architecture and engineering. Currently in Prague (that it is where she is originally from) and her base is US

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Hi, I'm Christina.

2

I'm from Prague.

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Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

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Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

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Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

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Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

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Welcome to Carbon Sessions, a podcast with

Carbon Conversations for every day, with

8

everyone, from everywhere in the world.

9

In our conversations, we share ideas.

10

perspectives, questions, and things we

can actually do to make a difference.

11

So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions, because it's not too late.

12

To a very special episode

of Carbon Sessions.

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And I'm Vicky.

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And today we are embarking on a

journey inspired by the timeless tale

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of Charles Dickens, the Christmas

Carol, but with a little twist, okay?

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So because it's the holiday season,

and we're not just celebrating with

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joy and hope, and we're also taking

this opportunity to dip into the

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heart of what these celebrations mean

in the context of climate change.

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And today, Jen, Christina, and I will

share our personal journeys, our Christmas

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past, present, and future, and reflect

how these experiences intertwine with

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the broader challenges of climate change.

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And also think of those

who are less privileged.

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So our conversation will be guided

by themes that resonate with both A

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Christmas Carol And our battle against

climate change, which are redemption,

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impact on future generations.

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empathy, generosity, and reflection.

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So get your drink and we'll explore

how this, the spirit of the holiday

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can inspire us to be more conscious,

compassionate, and proactive in

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our fight for a healthier planet.

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Okay, so let's do it.

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Are you ready?

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Ready.

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Ready.

34

Okay, so I think we could start by sharing

some memories from Christmas in the past

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and how this memory how do you see these

memories now in the context of climate

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change and And, um, you know, you can

share a moment of experience you like

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when you realize the importance of climate

change and how it has affected the way

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you want to celebrate Christmas today.

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So you want a memory and then Memories.

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Yeah.

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Of Christmas?

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Yeah, a celebration of, um,

like something that you really

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enjoyed, , as a child in the, you

know, past Christmas celebrations,

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then that brought you a lot of joy.

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But , , then now that you, you know, you

understand a little bit more about climate

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change, um, how would you do differently?

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Yes, I have one.

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Um, when, when I was growing up,

um, we, we came from a fairly, um,

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not, not a very wealthy background.

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So, um, we had, um, a single

mom and, uh, lived in places

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where, uh, we didn't have a lot.

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And, um, but one of the things we

did at Christmas, I always remember

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that we had Christmas crackers, those

Christmas, um, paper things that you

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would share with your neighbor and you

would pull on and then something would

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pop and then some toys would come out.

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And that was a tradition that Um, I do

remember having, um, from the time I was

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small that we always had that it was fun.

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And then everybody would wear their

paper crowns for the dinner and,

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uh, sit around with their paper

king crowns on in different colors.

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And you get silly little toys in there.

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And when I.

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, became an adult and started

hosting Christmas dinner.

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That was an important thing, was

always getting the Christmas crackers.

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And it was only a few years ago

that I realized, what a waste.

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First of all, first of all, the

little, um, the little spark that

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comes when you pull the, The little

paper thing that makes a spark.

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Um, I I don't know what that is

But it always has a little smell

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of chemical like a sulfur smell.

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Um, so there's there's something

chemically in that, uh ignition

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that makes the pop and the spark

And then what's inside are these?

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You know, basically crappy little

toys that are made of plastic in

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plastic and They're most of the time

not useful and most of the time end

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up going in the garbage or being

put in a donation box or something.

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So I thought, why spend all the money on

these Christmas crackers and the packaging

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they come in and all of the thing, all of,

all that it takes to make these things.

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And instead I make little table favors

that usually in, involve, um, food.

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Uh, so a little jar of.

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sweets at each place with a name tag on

it or this year I'm going to make biscotti

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and everybody will get some biscotti

with their name on it at the table.

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So Christmas crackers have,

um, have gone in our tradition.

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Yeah, I've read, I've just read

an article in the Gladiator thing,

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um, explaining, you know, what

you've just explained is funny.

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It's something I've

read, uh, a few days ago.

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I was, I haven't thought about it.

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Yeah.

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What about you, Christina?

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Christina, do you have something to share?

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I, I realized when you were asking

about, uh, Christmas traditions

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and connection to climate change.

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Um, I have to say the way we celebrated

Christmas, my grandparents celebrated

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Christmas and the way I celebrated

Christmas with my kids was so different.

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Um, and it, uh, with the present,

especially with smaller kids,

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it's really not about the present.

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It's more about the unwrapping and, and

really the surprise part of it, what's

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in there, the curiosity and the surprise.

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And I realized when I was little,

the way we celebrated Christmas,

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that one of the rooms were closed.

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In the house, like usually living

room and that's when I'm 24 secretly

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parents, uh, set up Christmas tree

and, uh, after Christmas dinner,

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there was a celebration that the door

opened and it was that moment of the

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surprise from the dark apartment.

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There was a little Christmas tree

and I was thinking maybe I'm Instead

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of buying more things so we get

more surprise, maybe we can create

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other surprises for Christmas time.

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when You look \ into the future

What are the celebrations that?

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you want, you want to keep and , um,

for the future generations to keep.

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what are the celebrations that

you think that you could keep

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and carry on in, in the future?

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I think I, I would love to keep the

tradition of that magic and surprise.

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So any kind of, any kind of, uh, Games

and surprises like the elves, they, they

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have this elf on the shelf, uh, bringing

in different days, different things and

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hiding and appearing somewhere else.

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So creating experiences instead of, uh,

getting things and getting huge amounts

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of maybe creating surprises and games.

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That's me.

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Yeah, so the tradition is more,

um, the emotion, the connection.

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Yeah.

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That's, that's doable.

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It doesn't, you know, doesn't emit

more carbon if you do it the right way.

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, we have, um, we have a couple of

traditions that happen on the same day.

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Um, we always have our

Christmas a little bit early.

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I think I mentioned this before because

we have lots of people who have lots

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of obligations to be other places.

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So we're having our, um, celebration on

the 15th this year, which is very soon.

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Um, but.

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There's two things in that

tradition that have happened that

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I would like to carry forward.

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Well, three actually.

129

One of them is we have a great big,

huge, massive mirror that hangs in our

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stairwell and all of the, uh, young women

in the family take a picture together

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standing, looking in that mirror and they

call it the sister ish picture because

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some of them are actually sisters.

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Some are.

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Uh, stepsisters, some are sisters

in law, and some are cousins,

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and some are just friends.

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And so they all stand, and they've

got pictures over the years

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standing in front of this mirror.

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So we have to take the mirror with us when

we move and find another place for it so

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they can take this picture, because it's

so fun to see the picture over the years.

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And that's, that's just

a really neat tradition.

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And then, uh, we have this tradition

of playing this game, which I

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also think I told you about where

everybody has to wrap something up

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from their home that they don't want

anymore and put it under the tree.

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And then we play a game and everybody

goes home with something, but

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it's something no one has bought.

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The rule is you're not allowed to buy it.

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Some people cheat, which.

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Which I keep warning them about.

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It needs to be something you already

have that you just don't want anymore.

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That would be fun for

somebody else to have.

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So, um, so that's the game.

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And then the third thing is that we

have a basket and people put money

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into the basket Without names on it

or anything, and we take all of that

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money and we support, um, students in

Guatemala, uh, for going to school.

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And it's about 350 per, uh, young girl

to go to school in Guatemala, and the

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families can't afford to send them,

usually after about grade 5 or 6, so

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this is to help girls who want to go

to high school, go to high school.

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And, um, so we've been able to support,

uh, 2 or 3 girls, um, At Christmas,

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because we don't need any more stuff, and

this seems like instead of spending money

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on each other, let's do something good for

someone else, so I'd like that tradition,

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doesn't matter what it is, but I'd love

that generosity tradition to continue,

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um, with this, uh, this gathering.

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And our focus is having fun, you know,

connecting, eating good food, and

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then doing something for someone else.

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So I hope, I hope that carries on

after we're not able to host anymore.

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I have two traditions.

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Um, one that I can caring

for the rest of their lives.

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And the other one, I'm not really sure.

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The first one is I, if you'll

remember, I told you about, you know,

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um, when my nephews were, um, six

and 10 or six and nine, I'm very bad

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with ages, but when they were little

and I bought them, uh, toys and

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then they say, Oh, it's for babies.

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We don't want it anymore.

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And then the next year, um,

I gave them, like, you know,

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some collected items and then.

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And then starting from the year after,

um, what I used to, but I'm still

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doing it, is I gift them, um, I gift

meals on their behalf to, through an

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app, uh, which is called Share a Meal.

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I don't know if you, um,

if you're aware of it.

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It's a, it's a very

cool app on your phone.

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You can buy meals , , for

people that have no food.

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Um, basically when I'm talking about

people that have no food, , I think that,

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um, I have bought meals for kids in, uh,

uh, in Madagascar and, uh, some places in,

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um, I think I bought one year in Syria.

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And, um, because they,

Obviously, they have everything.

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Those very small kids.

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So, I, what I did, and this is a

tradition that I've been carrying since

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they, they refused the toys that I

bought them, um, is to gift on their

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behalf, meals to other kids in need.

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Um, I'm not sure that they

see the value of it, but I'm

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sure that they will one day.

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So that is something that, that's

a tradition that has been going

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on and I think that I can carry

on for a very, very long time.

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It's again, um, around the

theme of generosity and giving.

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But the other thing that I'm not

very optimistic about it is that

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we have, um, we in my family.

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I have a very big family.

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I have, um, I have three sisters

and a brother and, um, and

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lots of nieces and nephews.

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So we have a very big family.

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And for the past few years, we've

been going to, like, a chalet,

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a small, very nice wooden house.

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In the Alps, and, uh, and it's, it's

really nice, you know, it's a very

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traditional, um, , I'm going to set to

take some pictures and, and, uh, share

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them with you when I'll come back.

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It's like, , it's made of stone and,

um, and wood, and it's very cozy with

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a fireplace, like in the middle of

nowhere It's in the middle of nowhere

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with three or four houses and that's it.

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And the ski slopes are not very far away,

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.

, but the problem with, um, mountains and skiing is that

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there are less and less snow.

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And it will be, , from an environmental

perspective, it will be very, very costly

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to keep this, um, this, this, um, this

mountains, this result, because, um,

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because then they need to get artificial

snow, which is , you know, which requires

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them pumping the water in the rivers

or from, you know, from the water that

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could be used otherwise , for agriculture

and then use a lot of the electricity

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to pump and make this fake snow.

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So, um, the mayor of this

village has already planned

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to cease the skiing activity.

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Um, not in the near future, but I

think it's in or 20 years because,

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um, , scientists has predicted that there

will be no natural snow, um, reliable

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natural snow for the resort to be,

um, economically financially viable.

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So that's a tradition.

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I would love to care for it,

but I don't think that, oh,

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we need to find another place.

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But I don't think that skiing is,

um, it's, um, it's a bankable.

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We should say that something an

investment for the future, because

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it will be more and more difficult.

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So, Jen, you were talking about, you

were talking about students earlier.

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And so that's a question I would

like to ask you, uh, and Christina.

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be more inclusive and more considerate

for those who are less privileged?

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, That could be less privileged

for economic reasons, but also

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for, for environmental reasons.

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So how can we do more and be more

inclusive and share more, share

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more, show more empathy and have

more this sense of community.

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Oh, um, I mean, you are a pastor, so

yeah, that's, that's a question for you.

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And one of, one of the things that,

um, that we all know is that everyone

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has their handout at Christmas, right?

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There's, there's, Uh, requests

coming from every sector, you get

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people outside of stores with ringing

jingle bells, asking for donations.

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You get asked at the checkout, you

get asked on email relentlessly, you

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get asked at church and community

events, you get asked, um, by snail

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mail, actual mail coming in to donate.

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Um, and, and there are so many good

causes and it's, it's hard because

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it's a time when, you know, there's

a lot of money going in and out

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and it's tough for some people.

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We're, we're having a struggle here with

the cost of, um, groceries and utilities.

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And I know a lot of

people are cutting down.

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Um, on that.

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And so one of the things I think about

is, is a planning donations, like

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we plan to donate to the food bank

in December and plan, you know, plan

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some things that we're going to donate

to as a family, um, and, and have to

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say no to a lot of the other ones.

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but at least plan all year to be able

to give some money when it's asked

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to certain things that we care about.

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Um, but the other thing is to reduce

expectations, um, in the family

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and, um, and reduce expectations

amongst colleagues, like, you

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know, everyone's struggling.

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And so why?

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Why stress and put things on

credit cards and go into debt?

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Like, what is it about the expectation?

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Because sometimes people equate the

value and the wonder of the gift with

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how much you are loved and appreciated.

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And that's false, right?

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That's just a false, um, equation.

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And so is there a way that everyone

can have a conversation in November

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that says, let's just not, or let's do

something different, or let's draw names.

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If, if a gift is a must, or let's,

you know, do some make our gifts

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for each other, they have to be

handmade and they have to be a

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certain price limit or something

like, is there a fun way you can have.

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Have the fun, but at the

same time, reduce the stress.

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And, and the debt load in the new year

and, you know, all of that on each other

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and maybe have a little bit more room

for being able to drop some money into

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one of those, you know, jingle bell

bins when you're walking by or, or, or

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whatever, like, is there a way that this

can be rethought that you don't have to

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have, like, we just came through Good

Friday and Cyber Monday and, you know,

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it's relentless, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.

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But you don't have to play the game.

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You don't have to play the game.

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And I love what you said about, you

know, giving the baby in the family some

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things that are fun to open and wrap

because that's just so true, you know.

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I asked my daughter what my two

year old grandson would like for

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Christmas, and she wanted me to

find an old fashioned Sony Walkman.

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They don't even make them anymore.

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I found one at a thrift store.

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She's so excited.

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I found one accidentally, you know,

and I found some old cassette tapes.

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I mean, I'm gonna put some

little fun things in with it,

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but You can record a message.

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Can you record the message

before on the cassette tape?

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Oh, I should, I should.

292

I should find a cassette

that I can record on.

293

That's a great idea.

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Yeah, so, so it's, it's, it's, you know,

we don't have to play this game and we

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can, we can, there's scientific evidence.

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that you find happiness

within if you do for others.

297

Um, and that is scientifically proven

that if you're not feeling very good

298

inside, if you go and do something

for someone else, it will improve

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your inner Uh, your inner self.

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And so, um, yeah, it's just, it's just,

we don't have to get stuck in this, uh,

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consumeristic, carbon infested rat race.

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We don't have to.

303

That's my rant and my sermon for today.

304

Sorry.

305

Awesome.

306

That's great.

307

Yeah, it's, uh, The community and

connection, I think, uh, a lot of people

308

feel exactly what you, Jen, described.

309

This, uh, stress or, well, I didn't

buy big enough gift or I didn't, um,

310

invite somebody because we didn't

have enough, uh, or enough fancy

311

enough dinner for Christmas dinner.

312

Um, I think the connection and maybe even

going to retirement homes or connecting

313

with some people during the year and

stopping by during the holidays because

314

that's where people feel really alone.

315

They're alone.

316

And I know a lot of people over

80, most of them say, well, I don't

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have anybody, everybody died on me.

318

I don't have anybody to

chat with, connect with.

319

And, uh, so maybe remember those people.

320

And I was thinking about the donations.

321

Also, I think it's important where when

you donate, check out, at least in the U.

322

S.

323

there was a You can check out what's

the percentage they give to real

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cause and what's the percentage they

give to themselves, the organization.

325

So I would think that would be

really smart to, before you donate,

326

check the places you donate to,

to know where you're donating.

327

Yeah, we're pretty strategic about,

about that kind of thing and, and, and

328

donate a fair bit because it's just

part of what we want to do, but, but

329

it, it, it's overwhelming the requests.

330

Yeah.

331

I always, I, uh, we had this, uh,

my mother in law came, uh, we always

332

skip to some organizations instead

of to each other after kids grow up.

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And my mother in law, many years ago, she

was giving out to the Heifer Foundation.

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And, uh, uh, they were, in the beginning,

they were buying, I don't know what

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they do now, but in the, many years ago,

they were buying goats for the farmers.

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And, uh, and then I heard, uh, from

India, Uh, the scientists talking

337

about please do not send us goats.

338

They destroy our farmland.

339

So also think about long term.

340

impact on other people.

341

Yeah, that's what I was thinking

that Chris was, I remember that.

342

I was like, oh no, I

destroyed people's formula.

343

Yeah, because I guess that's in the act

of giving this to, to, um, Uh, two goals

344

is one goal is for to please the receiver

and of the gift, but the other goal is

345

to please ourselves, you know, the giver.

346

So sometimes we want to make a very, very

big gift that is disproportionate or it's

347

not always wanted by the, by the receiver,

you know, that's be aware of that.

348

Yeah.

349

Check both sides.

350

On both sides, yeah.

351

So, yeah, I think it's very important,

you know, when you give something, when

352

you make a gift or contribution to a

community, just think of, you know,

353

okay, how will that interact with the

receiver or the community of the receiver?

354

Yeah, what's the impact that's

not only on the environment, but

355

also on the people and culture?

356

Yeah, because it's something I'm, I'm

thinking, um, these days because I'm,

357

um, I'm very stingy with my family for

Christmas this year because, um, because

358

I've decided I'm going to , um, used

my money to buy gifts for the, um, the

359

hospital staff because my father is

going through, um, the radio theatre.

360

And, um, and so he goes there,

um, well, actually in November,

361

December, almost every day.

362

And, and they're

wonderful at the hospital.

363

, um, the staff that I'm helping, not only

my family, but the whole, you know, people

364

taking care of people that are sick.

365

And, uh, and I wanted to give

them a gift to each of them,

366

but I have to be very strategic

because it's a very big department.

367

So I have to think of how I'm going

to, to, um, you know, within my, um,

368

within the, um, my financial means.

369

I'll give a meaningful gift to each of

them and thinking of the consequences

370

because I don't want to create any

problem with that department either.

371

So,

372

We had some, we had some creative

gifts given, like when When somebody

373

got engaged, one of our daughters is a

really good photographer and her gift

374

was engagement photos for the couple and

she would go out with them at sunset at

375

a beach and take Really beautiful photos

and you know, and she's done that for a

376

couple of other family members as a gift.

377

She's not a professional She just loves to

take pictures and she's really good at it.

378

And then You know, we've had other

people offer babysitting and, you know,

379

there's different services you can do

for people that are wonderful gifts when

380

you get to cash them in and, uh, and,

and aren't, aren't things, you know?

381

Um, so it's, you know, what can I?

382

What can I, I can watch the children

while you, you go off for dinner,

383

you know, or something like that.

384

Um, just gifts of service to other people.

385

Um, and I remember that we had an auction

once years ago at one of the churches.

386

It was called a talent auction

and it was where everybody put

387

up things that they would do.

388

Like, I'll come to your home and cook

dinner for six of you or something, you

389

know, or I'll come and fix something

in your house or whatever it was.

390

It was things that people were really

good at that they would offer as a gift

391

to whoever was buying it at auction.

392

And it was so fun, you know,

sometimes it was, I will compose

393

a song for your loved one.

394

You know, it was whatever you were

good at, you would do as a gift.

395

And one year we bought.

396

A visit from Santa.

397

Oh.

398

And it was a great big fellow who

had real black motorcycle boots, a

399

real Santa suit and a real beard.

400

Maybe it was real Santa.

401

I didn't tell anybody and he showed

up on Christmas at our family when

402

my kids were kind of small and I

had given him little gifts before.

403

He got there and little instructions

on each person and he stayed for

404

about 45 minutes and everybody

kept saying, who is that?

405

And I kept saying, it's Santa.

406

Cause he was a stranger.

407

I didn't really know who he was,

but I'd gone to this event and

408

this was a talent auction and

this was one of the gifts, right?

409

One of the prizes.

410

So, you know, you can, you can, you

can bake cookies with someone, you

411

know, Um, go and take a, you know, take

some time and make some cookies with

412

someone and visit them as a gift, right?

413

Like there's lots of different

things you can do that don't involve

414

carbon or purchasing things anyway.

415

Yeah, that reminds me.

416

My kids did that.

417

They made little booklets.

418

With these services, like

I'll do the dishes one hug.

419

It was so cute.

420

I still have the booklets.

421

I did not gave the instructions

away, but it was so beautiful.

422

So much more fun.

423

That is beautiful.

424

No, because I was going to ask

you, um, to reflect on the.

425

You know, our understanding of climate

change and past experiences about

426

how would be the ideal Christmas

in, let's say, 10 or 20 years

427

time, but we've covered that a lot.

428

Like gifts, uh, that are, um, actually

don't cost a lot of money, uh, to, and

429

doesn't cost a lot of, um, , doesn't

cost a lot of carbon footprint.

430

And, um.

431

Yeah.

432

So it's about connection,

joy, giving, and hope.

433

Sounds like Christmas to me.

434

That's beautiful.

435

Thanks, everyone.

436

That was beautiful.

437

Happy holidays.

438

Thank you.

439

Happy holidays.

440

Merry Christmas.

441

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442

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