Artwork for podcast Thrive Beyond Pornography (Formerly The Self Mastery Podcast)
Thrive beyond pornography with your spouse
Episode 1741st January 2023 • Thrive Beyond Pornography (Formerly The Self Mastery Podcast) • Zach Spafford
00:00:00 00:29:12

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Happy new year!

If you are listening to this podcast, we’re excited to see what 2023 will bring for you and how your life will change for the better by not just overcoming porn but putting yourself in a position to thrive. 

If you are ready to make 2023 the year you thrive beyond pornography, join us for our free masterclass this thursday night at six pm mountain by registering at zachspafford.com/freecall We are going to be talking about the one shift you need to create a life where you can Thrive Beyond Pornography



Doing it alone is possible. Doing it with your spouse can create the relationship you’ve been dreaming of. 


In the process of working with hundreds of men and women, there is a clear advantage for those who are married and who do the work with their spouses.  


Today we’d like to talk about three distinct advantages that come when you and your spouse work together on the process of thriving beyond pornography. 

  1. She’s going to see you more clearly than anyone.
  2. She’ll be able to move beyond betrayal more effectively.
  3. Thriving isn’t just stopping pornography viewing.


She’s going to see you more clearly than anyone.


If you are truly ready to overcome pornography and begin to thrive, the perspective of your spouse is really essential.  


This is a vital role that our closest person can play for us.  Seeing ourselves more clearly can be difficult without external input.  


So, Darcy, how have you been able to see me more clearly and help me see me through your insight?


No one knows us as our spouse does. As we began to thrive beyond pornography and create a relationship where we were able to talk openly about what was going on for each of us it made a big impact on healing our relationship.


In the beginning, we spent more time hiding from each other to self-protect and project the best image of who we were. As we moved further down the road, we both started being more willing to be seen by each other and also see each other more clearly.


It was very uncomfortable for me to really see Zach as someone who chose to look at pornography. I wanted to see him as my next to perfect husband because that is who I wanted him to be and it felt way better to see him that way. 


There were times when Zach would come to me and say, “help me see what I can’t see.”


When he was humble enough and willing to listen to the things that I saw that he didn’t yet see, it was helpful for both of us. This was not me forcing what I wanted to see on him, but him coming to me wanting to be better, wanting to understand what it was that I saw in him that he was struggling to see. 


This is not an easy thing to do. We as humans don’t typically like hearing and seeing what it is that our partners see about us. It is hard to confront the ugly parts of us that we would prefer to hide from and not see. 


There were times I would notice patterns in Zach’s behavior that, if he was willing to hear, I could point out to him. There were definitely times when he didn’t want to hear what I had to say because it was hard for him to hear the truth. He didn’t always like the reflection of who he was being held up in front of his face. 


This concept can go both ways. There were many times when Zach was able to help me see things that I either didn’t want to see about me or that I was completely unaware of.  


She’ll be able to move beyond betrayal more effectively.


One of the most difficult parts of creating a relationship that can thrive beyond pornography is healing from the disorganization that comes when a husband or wife learns of their spouse's pornography use.   It can feel like you are carrying around a boat anchor until it gets resolved. 


One thing that I have observed over the years of doing this is that many of the clients I’ve worked with have made remarkable progress toward their goal of becoming porn free.  That newfound triumph has often been dampened by the real and meaningful feelings of a spouse who has not yet been able to heal from the loss of what she thought the marriage was and who she thought her spouse was. 


Darcy, what have you done to move beyond the sense of betrayal that you had when you found out that I had been using pornography?


If you go back and listen to episode 170 titled six shifts that helped me move beyond betrayal, I talked in detail about some of the things that helped me move beyond Zach’s pornography struggle. So if you haven’t listened to that episode, I suggest you go back and do that.


However, I would like to share one story that comes to mind when I think about how I have been able to move forward. 


In my mind, I had this grand idea of what it meant and what it looked like for Zach to choose pornography. I often viewed it as a personal attack against me. I would think and say things like am I just not worth it enough for you to stop looking at porn. If you loved me more, you would stop. Don’t you think about me when you choose to do that? Why can’t you stop yourself from choosing porn by thinking about me and our relationship and what this might do to us?


Then one night, I became a fly on the wall as I watched Zach desperately try to find something, anything that would help him feel better. I, for the first time, was able to see Zach and his struggle with pornography so clearly. We talked in detail about this in episode xxx, the last time I almost went down the rabbit hole; It was not this amazing private sexual experience that he was having. It was truly sad, desperate, and really pathetic.  I realized at that moment that Zach choosing porn was not about me. I didn’t have to make it mean anything more than he was struggling and that the way he had trained himself to deal with struggle was to seek out sexual images. 


How has that helped you become a more effective partner?


I think this experience has helped me to be more honest with Zach about who I am and the things that I struggle with. It has been comforting to realize that I don’t have to be perfect to be loved. It has helped me to understand and appreciate my Savior and his infinite love for me.


What did healing from that breach do for our marriage?


Healing from this breach has been an incredible experience. It has been filled with many ups and downs, but in the long run, it has been way more ups! I am grateful for this experience because it has helped us to grow up in ways that I don’t think would have happened if we didn’t have to go through this trial. We have been able to create a relationship that has a solid foundation because this struggle helped us to see the hole that we had. 


Thriving isn’t just stopping pornography viewing.


Thriving isn’t just stopping pornography viewing; it’s the entire relationship growing to a place where pornography can never again break the relationship.


The reason that we updated the name of the podcast to thrive beyond pornography is that even though people can stop viewing porn, there are elements of life that don’t automatically get fixed when they do. 


When we got to a place where pornography wasn’t a regular issue, there was still quite a bit of change and growth that had to take place. 


Our real lives took the path of reframing the problem, Moving beyond pornography, moving beyond betrayal, then we had to re-found the relationship on more solid footing, and after that we had to learn new ways to interact and react to each other that created the thriving marriage that we have now.  


I think how we re-founded our relationship started with me realizing that Darcy wouldn’t make me happy and that I had to do that work myself.  I also had to learn what my real priorities were and begin living them. I had to create happiness for myself. I had to be willing not to make darcy a top priority over my happiness.  


I had to start going and doing the things that I liked doing.  I had to create a space where I belonged to myself while still choosing her.  


This is a line that we get to walk because it is a balance between being a net taker in your relationship by being selfish and not valuing your spouse’s feelings and desires versus being a true partner who can hold on to themselves and still show up as an equal in the relationship.  


Darcy, what did you do in that period to re-found the relationship and step into the relationship while holding on to yourself?


I stopped waiting on whether or not you chose porn to feel the way I wanted to feel. I spent so many years on the emotional rollercoaster of allowing your actions to determine whether or not I was going to be ok.


I also started to become capable of hearing your truths without going into solving your-problems mode. For so many women, we want to make it easy on others. We spend much time serving our children, neighbors, and spouse. For many of us, it gives us a sense of accomplishment and like we are contributing to the world in a positive and meaningful way; however, when this is all we do, we begin to lose ourselves in the service of others and not in a good way. Being able to hear that Zach was struggling with any number of things and not taking it on as my problem was freeing. I began to see Zach as willing and able to solve his own problems and that he didn’t need me to rescue him from himself. I learned to see Zach as an equally capable partner who I loved. It has also helped me to realize that I, too, am capable of so much more than I give myself credit for. 

zachspafford.com/freecall




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