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Roger King: Building a Franchise Empire: The Story of Supplement King
Episode 203 • 24th May 2024 • Resolve Riffs Investment Podcast • ReSolve Asset Management
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In this episode, we have an engaging conversation with Roger King, the mastermind behind the successful Supplement King franchise. Roger shares his journey from starting as a local supplement provider to becoming a renowned name in the industry. He discusses his business strategies, the importance of understanding the market, and the challenges he faced along the way.

Topics Discussed

• Roger King's early journey into the world of supplements and how he identified an underserviced opportunity in the natural health products market.

• The challenges and lessons learned from transitioning from a single store to multiple retail locations and eventually moving to online sales.

• The importance of understanding the market and adjusting business strategies accordingly, including the shift from being a brand-building retailer to focusing on being the best retailer.

• Insights into the franchise model of Supplement King, and how they ensure the success of their franchisees.

• The strategy behind their social media marketing and the role of influencers in promoting their products.

• A look at the future of the supplement industry and the potential for innovation in the face of regulatory restrictions.

• Roger King's personal life and hobbies, and how he balances them with running a successful business.

This episode is a goldmine for anyone interested in understanding the dynamics of the supplement industry, franchising, and online retail. Roger King's insights and experiences provide a unique perspective on navigating the challenges of the business world and achieving success.

This is “ReSolve’s Riffs” – published on YouTube every Friday afternoon to debate the most relevant investment topics of the day, hosted by Adam Butler, Mike Philbrick and Rodrigo Gordillo of ReSolve Global* and Richard Laterman of ReSolve Asset Management.

*ReSolve Global refers to ReSolve Asset Management SEZC (Cayman) which is registered with the Commodity Futures Trading Commission as a commodity trading advisor and commodity pool operator. This registration is administered through the National Futures Association (“NFA”). Further, ReSolve Global is a registered person with the Cayman Islands Monetary Authority.


Transcripts

Roger King:

Now, on the goal setting and on the business growth and business

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building, I've always looked at short and

long term goals and how they fit together.

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I remember staring down the mall hallway

at the kiosk thinking, All right, here's

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my numbers with one store open, and I can

see what that looks like at five stores.

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You know, add up that labor

piece, see if it's still a good

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business at five locations, and

it made sense to scale to that.

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And then as, you know, that started

to come to fruition, I looked at Well,

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then I had a storefront in front of me.

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All right, well, what would five stores

instead of five kiosks look like?

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Build out that business plan

and, you know, work your

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way towards that micro goal.

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And we've really never stopped doing that.

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Mike Philbrick: All right, welcome

everybody to another Resolve Riffs.

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Today we've got a real

entrepreneurial treat.

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What are we going to call this Rod?

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The Entrepreneur's Corner?

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Something along those lines.

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We've got Roger King joining us, who is

the president at Supplement King, probably

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the owner of Supplement King largely

as well, which is in the Halifax area.

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A supplement store that has opened its

100th store recently and Roger's got

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one hell of an entrepreneurial story.

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So we thought we'd have him on and

talk about his journey in starting

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a business from an idea all the

way to 100 stores across Canada.

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And it's in an area that is a bit of fun.

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We like working out, we like

taking supplements here.

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So it's a sort of an area near and dear to

my heart and my daughter also works there.

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So for uh, you, you know, clear and

concise conflict of interest declarations.

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There you have it.

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Rodrigo Gordillo: Know, before you get

into it, I was actually just taking

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a, protein shake and I was staring

at this terrible plastic, you know,

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the classic plastic shaker bottles.

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After reading all this stuff about like,

the, the plastic is bad for you and

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all this like plastic residue that you

end up ingesting that you should avoid.

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And I was reminded of the bottle that

your daughter showed us, Mike, which

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was, oh my God, it was like solid as

a rock, you know, made out of metal.

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Mike Philbrick: right here,

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Rodrigo Gordillo: this whole episode,

by the way, Roger, is about me getting

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a free one when we get off here.

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Roger King: So, so Mike,

is that your, your team?

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That's your, your,

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Mike Philbrick: the, yeah,

that's the Hamilton Tiger cats.

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Yeah.

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Roger King: That's your former team.

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Mike Philbrick: Yeah.

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So you guys did a co sponsor, a

sponsor deal with the CFL as well.

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Roger King: we did.

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We did a co brand collaboration

where we created bottles for all the

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teams in the C CFL, so it's great.

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CFL is a great partner.

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Mike Philbrick: amazing.

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So we got, we got so

much to dig into here.

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Cause I think there's, there's

interesting topics that we would want

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to dig into you with, with how you've

taken the firm, the marketing and

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the, you know, the Influencers and how

you guys manage that sort of stuff.

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But before we get into that stuff,

because we are passionate about that

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side of the equation too, I'd love to

hear your journey of what, you know,

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what sort of sparked your interest in

the supplement game, your journey from,

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as I understand it, you know, in the

dorm room, to, to a hundred stores.

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And by the way, you are legendary.

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I have someone every time I

mentioned supplement king, and

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there's a lot of Canadians here.

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if they're from the East Coast,

they absolutely know who you are,

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what you do, and absolutely amazing.

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Our, our business partner from a

while ago, JP Belanger, he's like,

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I know Supplement King, the woman

cleaning my teeth from Halifax.

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So I know Roger, he was at school with me.

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So literally you are, you

are, you're legendary.

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And you know, when you get that many

cross pollinations, I'm like, we

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got to have this guy have a chat.

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Anyway, can you, can you kind of

take us through the, early journey?

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Roger King: amazing.

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Well, look, uh, you know, like many

business ideas, necessity breeds that

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invention for me, coming out of high

school, playing a little bit of high

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school sports, I was a weight trainer.

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I was enthusiastic about it.

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I was a little on the small side.

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So I remember being 16 ish

years old and my parents took

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me into a supplement store.

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I think it was a GNC in St.

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John, New Brunswick.

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And I picked up my first bucket of

weight gain protein and it worked,

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you know, I realized very quickly

that it was the consumption.

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It was what, what were you putting

in your body coupled with that weight

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training regime that you needed?

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That was going to yield the results.

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And so for me, the light bulb went off

and kind of a, a personal passion around

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that natural health products was born.

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Then shortly after university, or shortly

after high school, I came to Halifax,

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which was the big city when you're in

New Brunswicker to go to school at St.

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Mary's and, uh, my budget

not living at home.

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I was, uh, reduced down to about

75 bucks a week worth of spending

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money and, on student loans.

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And so I thought, how am I

going to afford creatine?

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How am I going to afford protein powder?

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Well, I'm going to start pooling

some campus orders together and

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become that guy in the dorm.

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Where you can, you know, we're talking

a little bit before the Ecom days,

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even if I'm going to date myself,

you know, back in those days, if you

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weren't the Bay or Sears, you know, you

weren't in Ecom, there was no Shopify.

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It was, it was only the big players.

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So I kind of became that local

hookup, that plug for protein,

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creatine and all things supplements.

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Mike Philbrick: I love it.

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You're the plug.

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Was there, was there, or can you share

a pivotal moment early on in those

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days that kind of set the stage for

the success you had and, and, you

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know, the expansion that you incurred?

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Roger King: You know, I've quickly,

I, I started to pay my bills at

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school and even have a little

more than that 75 bucks a week.

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And so a light bulb went off in my head

that, Hey, there could be something here.

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my established competition is very

much, you know, like a bodybuilding

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large chain, uh, you know, Popeye's

Supplements Canada, they've been around

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since 1989, they did a great job.

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They were the first group

to go coast to coast.

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Uh, went up against a corporate,

publicly funded or publicly owned

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company GNC and did extremely well.

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Those were the, that was

the competitive landscape.

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And I thought if I could be as economical

with my little to no overhead, you

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know, match those prices, there was

still some profit margin to be had.

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maybe I can make a door to door

delivery business out of this thing.

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And so that's what I did.

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I actually went to parking lots before,

you know, the digital media days

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stuck flyers under windshield wipers.

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I would do it.

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I would do almost every gym in

all of HRM every week and people

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would call me in class and I

would show up like a pizza boy.

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For Whey Protein with a

debit machine in hand.

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One of the very first debit

machines that was portable.

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It almost looked like, you know, Zach's

cell phone from Saved by the Bell.

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It was giant.

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And, uh, and you know what?

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I would, I would transact that order

and I would kind of build it on the back

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of relationships and people would just

keep calling until eventually I took

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that semester off and never went back.

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So.

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Yeah.

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Mike Philbrick: lead to the first store

then at some point when, when did you

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leap into the, the lease of a actual

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Roger King: Yeah.

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No, that was, that was a big step.

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And you know, I remember when I was

considering the semester off, you know, my

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parents weren't paying for my education,

so they didn't have loads of leverage

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over my decision making, but I still felt

it's a bit of a traditional household.

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I still felt I got to have a plan if

I'm going to stop attending university.

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And that plan was to rent kiosk space at

Scotia Square Mall in downtown Halifax.

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Again, staying very consistent with my

low overhead, low cost business model.

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Also, you know, being mindful

of what I could afford, which

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was about a 4, 000 kiosk.

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That was the, that was

the limit of the budget.

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I managed to sweet talk my way into

a kiosk space outside of a Good

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Life Fitness in Scotia Square Mall.

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Shockingly, this hadn't

been done in our space.

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All of our competitors, including the two

big guys that I mentioned earlier, were

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all located either in, you know, grade A

shopping centers, which was GNC's model.

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And Popeyes had, chosen their real

estate traditionally based on traffic

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metrics, you know, a high traffic

thoroughfare, busy intersections,

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traditional retail metrics.

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Whereas I thought, well, doesn't it make

sense to go where the customer goes?

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You know, doesn't that just, and so we set

up there and, my experience very quickly

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determined the future direction of the

business in the sense that it was not who

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I expected that came and shopped with me.

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I thought I would see who I had been

seeing based on my university delivery

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days, which were the athlete and the,

you know, the bodybuilding crowd a little

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bit, but it was the, uh, the corporate

employees up at the power company, Nova

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Scotia Power had an office tower above.

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Amira, also an energy company

had office towers up above.

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And these customers were not only

receptive to recommendations, their price

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sensitivity was much lower than people.

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who are, you know, in that athlete

and bodybuilding crowd who would

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shop around and shop around.

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So it just occurred to me in that

mall where I spent hundreds and

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hundreds of hours over four or five

years in a hallway of a mall that

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this is an underserviced opportunity.

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that natural health products I bet

on, we're going to become a very

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mainstream thing over the 5 to 10 years.

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And nobody's going after

the big slice of pie here.

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So that's how

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Rodrigo Gordillo: year was this, Roger?

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Roger King: was.

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Geez, put me, put me on

the spot with the kiosk.

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I would say the kiosk was in

:

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So we're going back just a

little over a decade ago.

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And if you think about the increase in

natural health product conduct consumption

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over the last 10 years, it has.

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Exponentially grown.

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Mike Philbrick: What a train to

be thinking ahead of the game on.

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That's, that

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Roger King: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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You know, I, I, I'd like to think

I was really that, that bright.

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I think it was just, it was small

goals and small discoveries and lots

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of mistakes, but none of them fatal

is really the best way to describe it.

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Mike Philbrick: And can you tell us

a bit about some of those stakes?

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Can you share a time when things

didn't go as planned and, and how

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you handled it, how you navigated it?

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Roger King: Yeah, I distinctly

remember biting off a, uh, a marketing

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program over the radio, which was

probably a good marketing program for

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a business about four times my size.

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I overcommitted, as a new physical store

operator, I was starting to get some drop

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ins from sales reps, you know, people

looking to do business, whether it's

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in radio or TV or print, and that's all

normal stuff and it's good stuff, but

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you need to learn how to buy that stuff.

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You know, you need to learn what's a fit

for you, what's a fit for your budget.

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Uh, you got to take all of these

projections with a grain of salt.

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And, so I, I definitely took on a

commitment that was too rich for the

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scope of my retail footprint and ended

up costing me money for a few months

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until the contract kind of made its way.

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So I, I learned some quick lessons there.

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Mike Philbrick: Nice.

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Rodrigo Gordillo: So when

you were building out the,

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business through the kiosks.

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how did you evolve from kiosk,

which I imagine you're also,

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you're not manufacturing your own

supplements at this point, right?

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You're probably buying them

from a larger distributor.

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Roger King: Correct.

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Yes.

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And that's the model we

maintain today as well.

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Rodrigo Gordillo: So what was

the transition with kiosk and

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then, you know, retail locations

close to those areas as well?

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Is

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Roger King: Yeah.

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So my plan, I had opened one and

then I opened a second kiosk.

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And then in my mind, again, I had

hundreds of hours at the, at this mall

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in the hallway, working my kiosk to

think about what the business looks

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like at five kiosks, 10, 15, 20.

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In my mind, I thought this competitive

advantage over the big established

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competitor, which at that time they

were both in the hundred, hundred

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to 150 location count was going

to be to keep my overhead low.

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So that my net could kind of

net out somewhere near because

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I didn't have the buying power.

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I didn't have had that kind of stuff.

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it wasn't until a competitor in

Parklane mall, which was about a 15

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minute walk away on Spring Garden road.

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Uh, an independent store was going

to go dark and I reached out to see

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if there was an opportunity there.

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And it turned out he was happy

for me to just assume their lease

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again next to Park Lane Good Life.

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So another Good Life co tenancy.

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And uh, it was in that store, which

was a couple of years after I'd

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begun the kiosk, kiosk businesses.

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It was in that store that I, Realized

how much more revenue we could sell

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through a physical retail store

versus in a kiosk environment.

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it was, you know, a solid two to three

X and very quickly, you know, it came

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to the realization that that extra

leasehold expense, that footprint

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that you would rent was well worth it.

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So we never looked back from

that point on the kiosk front.

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Mike Philbrick: And bootstrapping

this yourself, the whole way, the

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Roger King: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I managed to, you know, pull the money

together, get the stuff on the shelves.

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And, I don't think I was into any type

of bank lending until well down the road.

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So,

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Mike Philbrick: is

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amazing.

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Rodrigo Gordillo: so when do you

go from retail locations to online?

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Like, was that, was that

an always part of the plan?

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And like, how did that transition go?

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Roger King: yeah.

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Rodrigo Gordillo: What's the

distribution of online versus, retail

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Roger King: Well, you know, without

getting, I guess, into the proprietary

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number, we still do significantly more

business in store than we do online.

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we lead our marketing and all of our,

everything that we do promotionally

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with, direction to the in store because

Many of our customers, not all, but

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many of our customers still want to

come in and discuss what their fitness

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goal may be, interact with some options.

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There are still customers, you know, much

like yourself who may be very informed

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and know exactly what they want to buy.

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And for you, it may be more

convenient and it may be better for

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you to make your purchases online.

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You can click through our flyer and,

and find what you need that way.

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but, but by far and large, we

still see significantly more

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customers through the retail store

than we do through the website.

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Rodrigo Gordillo: I'm still kind

of, kind of shocked that you're

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able to compete in this market.

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Cause like you said, like Popeye's

is a, is a household name in Canada.

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At least, uh, you got GNC.

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What is it about?

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What you've done, like the angle that

you took bootstrapping this business to

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be able to compete with the big boys.

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I got, I'm still kind of fuzzy as to what

it was, what the magic is, aside from

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this concept of like keeping overhead low,

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Roger King: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Oh, you know what?

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The, here was the biggest opportunity, you

know, going back to our, when I mentioned

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the corporate employees, the people who

were not athletes and not bodybuilders,

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that was, I felt to be the biggest

breakout opportunity and the largest

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slice of underserved market potential.

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So when we had finally reached the

opportunity to open stores, our first,

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Physical and designed store that

we didn't just assume was in Larry

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Utech Bedford, which is, you know,

a bit of a, it's just a strip center

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again, next to a good life fitness.

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we were very deliberate to go with

a premium fixturing, a layout that

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was well lit, that was spacious, you

know, we used a high end mill work.

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We did not treat, did not cheap out.

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We really want to be, The premium

supplement operator is the

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direction we decided to take.

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An environment that wasn't intimidating,

it wasn't handmade cinder block

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counters, it wasn't biceps flexing in the

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Rodrigo Gordillo: I

was going to say, cause

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Roger King: was everything that they,

we were going to be everything they

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Rodrigo Gordillo: always a bodybuilder

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Roger King: Absolutely, absolutely.

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Rodrigo Gordillo: it was embarrassing

to go in there being like, I'm trying

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to do what you're doing, but I'm

not clearly not having to do it.

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Just give me the drugs.

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Give me that

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Roger King: have terrific, we have

a terrific following in the, in the

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athletic and bodybuilding community.

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We've got programs for people who, you

know, consume a higher than average amount

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of supplement products and we reward

them for that and they pay, you know, a

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special, special pricing structure and

whatnot, but we wanted to be that store

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that was in the fitness goals business.

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Not in the supplement business.

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We want people to come in, share

their goals, find a path, talk

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about what's worked, what hasn't.

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And so we lead with open ended questions

and we obsess over the training and

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the, and the experience in store.

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And that goes right down to the

fixturing and the layout and

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the lighting and the shelf plan.

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It's all, you know, a lot of

thought goes into all that.

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Mike Philbrick: It's, it's sort of,

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Rodrigo Gordillo: sorry, Mike,

let me just last question.

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So you train your sales team in

a very particular, question based

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process as there's the specific.

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Roger King: we do.

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We have standards around greetings.

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We have standards around the approach.

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We have e learning on

every aspect of this stuff.

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we have an app that gives you access,

whether you're a frontline employee,

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of which we have a thousand of,

whether you're a district manager,

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whether you're a franchisee, you know,

we've got to account for a certain

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amount of attrition, especially in

these frontline associate roles.

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So we need a training program that

could be replicated with, you know,

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relatively low amount of friction.

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and, a good franchisee.

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We spent all of our time training

franchisees, how to train the rest

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of the organization under because

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franchisees don't turn over to the same

level management and, and associates do.

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Rodrigo Gordillo: That's so

much better than the gap.

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When I worked for the gap, I, all I was

taught was to how to fold properly and

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Roger King: Oh, man, it all starts.

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It all starts with the details.

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Rodrigo Gordillo: if I was, in the front

and wasn't smiling, it was game over,

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they were on me like white on rice.

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It's

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Roger King: You look like you

could have worked at a gap.

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You're a handsome

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Rodrigo Gordillo: Oh yeah, you

know, I did okay, I did okay.

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I stole some jeans, you know

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:

Roger King: have bought a,

I would have bought a knit

352

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: stole some v necks.

353

:

Roger King: How deep was your V is what I

354

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: So it was like

a dublevé, doublevé, for sure.

355

:

Roger King: Excellent.

356

:

Mike Philbrick: Oh my God.

357

:

He wasn't quite hot enough to

work at Abercrombie, but they

358

:

Roger King: Oh, gotcha.

359

:

The B team.

360

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: That's right.

361

:

I was like, you know how to

call it the Benetton would

362

:

have been the next best thing.

363

:

Mike Philbrick: It's amazing, Roger,

the, uh, it, it sort of, that whole

364

:

process makes me think of the, Moore

book, Crossing the Chasm, you know,

365

:

sort of taking that niche market

thought of bodybuilding and the

366

:

supplements required and then sort of

crossing the chasm into mainstream.

367

:

both it's happening while you

are developing your stores, but

368

:

at the same time, having the,

the, foresight to bring that.

369

:

to sort of de intimidate that whole world

in order to bring in the more general

370

:

population who can benefit from easy

digestible, whether it's whey protein or

371

:

other supplements, you know, that most

diets just don't have enough protein.

372

:

When I'm asked regularly, and

Rodrigo and I get asked regularly,

373

:

what do you do or what's this?

374

:

It's, it's like, you know, my

first question is, well, how much

375

:

protein are you actually getting?

376

:

And you know, most people just literally

don't get enough protein to accomplish

377

:

any kind of significant muscle growth.

378

:

I mean, you can't really do that.

379

:

If you're training, you have to have

the fuel to repair the body, but,

380

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: And I think it's

becoming more popular and mainstream now

381

:

as we get all these fitness gurus that

are dealing with Ma and Pa Kettle, right?

382

:

All this longevity stuff where you're

grabbing 70 year olds and saying, listen,

383

:

you need to start feeding yourself.

384

:

I mean, I imagine that the interest

has gone up across the board and

385

:

across all demographics, but I'll let

you kind of tell me when you, are you

386

:

riding a wave or is this wave kind of

inconsistent and you're just stealing

387

:

some market share from the big boys?

388

:

Roger King: Well, you know what?

389

:

It's, it's interesting.

390

:

You mentioned that because as we grew,

you know, if I take myself back to

391

:

the 30 ish to 50 ish location, We're,

we're becoming, we're getting noticed

392

:

by the suppliers that we deal with.

393

:

Remember we deal with all of

the same suppliers that all

394

:

of our competitors deal with.

395

:

We had to, you know, and when I say we,

we were a very small team at that point,

396

:

myself, Jonathan Sharp, who's been with me

since the kiosk days, who was actually one

397

:

of the second in charge directors here.

398

:

he's, he also left school and

has made a great career with us.

399

:

we had to manage these relationships.

400

:

Delicately in the sense that we want you

to support us at a, at a higher level

401

:

than perhaps we necessarily warrant

from a sales volume standpoint, because.

402

:

We're growing the pie and and

their numbers would back that up.

403

:

You know, we would open up town

after town, after town in areas

404

:

where GNC would operate, and they

would tell us really haven't seen

405

:

any pullback on their numbers.

406

:

Suddenly we just have

new numbers from you.

407

:

And, I don't know if that's

always the case to today.

408

:

You know, now that we're pretty much neck

and neck in store count with Popeyes,

409

:

they have, contracted from 140 to around

110 and we're, you know, going to be

410

:

at 110 in about three months here.

411

:

So we're, you know, we're pretty,

pretty even at this point, but in the

412

:

early days when it really mattered to

us, when we could help to show them

413

:

that we weren't just shuffling the

dominoes from one side of the table

414

:

to the other, that we actually had a

model that could grow the pie in Canada.

415

:

That was a compelling case.

416

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: So, when we talk about

bootstrap, you know, there's many ways

417

:

of bootstrapping and deciding to open

up another store and then another store.

418

:

Were you always bootstrapping based on

free cash flow or were you kind of taking

419

:

advantage of some debt in order to expand?

420

:

Like how, how did you, what was

your model to decide whether it was

421

:

time to expand into a new location?

422

:

Roger King: So many businesses, you

know, find, as did we, that a franchisee,

423

:

franchisor model is a great way to

expand without needing to go into, you

424

:

know, deep capital situations where

you have to, you know, take on plenty

425

:

of debt to grow that store count.

426

:

So that's, the model that

I decided to head into.

427

:

And this was back when we were

eight or nine locations in size.

428

:

we began selling as a license

opportunity, a 10 year agreement.

429

:

also had the good fortune, maybe

foresight, I'll probably say

430

:

more good fortune, of opening a

terrific store in Fort McMurray,

431

:

Alberta back during the oil boom.

432

:

So the beauty with Fort McMurray,

Alberta, well, A, you're going to have

433

:

a lot of younger people with a higher

than average income, but B, you're

434

:

going to have a ton of these people

traveling in from all over Canada to work.

435

:

at these oil sites, well,

they would shop with us.

436

:

And next thing we were getting

opportunity to license applications

437

:

from all over the country.

438

:

They were coming in from

Calgary, from Edmonton, from the

439

:

prairies, from Ontario, from BC.

440

:

And so we didn't traditionally expand

as most franchise systems would, where

441

:

you would regionally create a footprint

and then grow outwardly from that.

442

:

We actually started growing in Alberta.

443

:

Like gangbuster at this point today,

we have more locations in Alberta than

444

:

we have anywhere else in the country.

445

:

I think we have 34 locations in Alberta.

446

:

near saturation if the province

would stop growing, but it's not.

447

:

So every time they open up a new

master plan community with a 30,

448

:

000 foot gym, we're right there.

449

:

we've stayed true to that model, but

yeah, it was, it was truly a, I guess,

450

:

some good luck and I don't know, maybe

some foresight that we happen to be there

451

:

and do a good job executing in the store.

452

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: And so are you guys now

actively, in terms of expansion, actively

453

:

just looking for franchisees and marketing

to them in order to do expansion?

454

:

Like, what's more important here,

to market the actual products

455

:

for your business or to market

to people that want to franchise?

456

:

Because I imagine there's going

to be competition of many, many

457

:

opportunities to franchise, right?

458

:

An entrepreneur that

wants to open up a store.

459

:

Could franchise McDonald's

or Supplement King.

460

:

Like, what's your, what are your, what do

your efforts to market to them look like?

461

:

Roger King: Yeah, so, so we don't

spend a whole lot of time or resources

462

:

on marketing for franchisees.

463

:

mostly because we now have contractual

commitments in, in many areas, uh,

464

:

in in which we would likely get an

application That area's probably

465

:

spoken for, how our growth works.

466

:

Um.

467

:

Every year we, we, and we

pledged to add 24 locations.

468

:

That's what we endeavor to do.

469

:

That's what we will do this year.

470

:

of those 24 locations,

18 will be internal.

471

:

And those internal locations we can count

on because those groups, some of which are

472

:

double digit in size now in store count,

are development partners, they have a

473

:

contract with us that's, both location

and account based and chronological

474

:

where they need to fulfill a certain

number of stores in a, a prescribed

475

:

area within a certain amount of time.

476

:

Now we're, we're reasonable

around that because we want to

477

:

achieve those A plus locations.

478

:

If it takes just a little

longer or a little less long,

479

:

we can, we can work with that.

480

:

but most of our growth comes from within.

481

:

We are, however, diving headfirst

into the Ontario market this year.

482

:

And so we are looking for new operators

in certain parts of Ontario, but we're

483

:

being very careful to not start people

so that they don't have a growth path

484

:

of four to eight locations around them.

485

:

So every new partner that starts

with us, we want them to have some

486

:

geography because I don't want to

wake up three years from now with

487

:

75 franchisees operating 120 stores.

488

:

That's a nightmare.

489

:

We can have fewer operators.

490

:

proportionate to our total store count,

fewer relationships to manage, yet they're

491

:

still successful and operating at a high

level and invested in the brand standards.

492

:

Mike Philbrick: and then, so you're

obviously that, training that we talked

493

:

about, all of that layers and layers

of infrastructure, running multiple

494

:

locations, that's the expertise

you bring to the game for these

495

:

operators as they're building their.

496

:

Franchise area.

497

:

Roger King: That's right.

498

:

So even to go from one to two stores,

there's a module of training you need to

499

:

go through with us to, to learn how to

multi unit operate, because it's different

500

:

from being an owner operator, in a store

day in, day out, where you have your

501

:

fingers on the pulse with everything.

502

:

We have some operators in their

early thirties, that own stores

503

:

across multiple provinces.

504

:

You know, 12, 13 locations.

505

:

They've got, big eight figure top line

businesses and layers of management

506

:

and financial managers and ordering

and inventory experts and quite

507

:

sophisticated franchisee businesses.

508

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: So

509

:

Mike Philbrick: it really is.

510

:

Go ahead.

511

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: so I just, what, what

is it when I, when you think about the

512

:

services that one signs up for as a

franchisee, what's under their control

513

:

and what is absolutely non negotiable

in terms of the branding for your store?

514

:

I've always been intrigued as to

where, what that line looks like.

515

:

Roger King: So, you know, part of

our secret sauce when we were, when

516

:

we were smaller, was that we were

successful in getting all of our

517

:

store operators to move in a single

direction from a marketing and a listing

518

:

and a, and a branding standpoint.

519

:

And what I mean by that is by controlling

access to our shelves, we were able

520

:

to control the buying in a way that

allowed us to In some cases, even though

521

:

we were only 60 or 70 locations, buy

bigger than our biggest competitor

522

:

because we weren't fragmented.

523

:

And how we ran the business.

524

:

So our marketing hinges

to our flyer program.

525

:

We're almost always on some sort of

a promotional period, whether it's a

526

:

month long flyer or a short weekend

event or whatever the case may be.

527

:

All of the buying is tied to that flyer

program so that the buying is cycled

528

:

that so that everything in the store

has an opportunity to get on flyer

529

:

to turn every three to four months.

530

:

Doesn't hit stale date if you're training

your staff how to sell through the flyer.

531

:

but most importantly, we're buying

as a group, we're moving as a

532

:

group, we're selling as a group.

533

:

Therefore we can control

that, process completely.

534

:

The listings are critical because, well,

it's advantageous to us to maintain a

535

:

fairly consistent offering from coast to

coast, A, from a marketing standpoint, B,

536

:

from an e com standpoint, and we can talk

a little bit about how our e com works.

537

:

but see, if everybody has their

way with how they feel, the selling

538

:

should happen on our shelves,

we've lost, we've lost all control.

539

:

And there's no hope of bringing it back.

540

:

other competitors, as in all

of the other competitors, they

541

:

don't have that rigidness.

542

:

They let their franchisees

kind of have free reign around

543

:

what they sell in their stores.

544

:

And as a result, when it comes time

to do a promotion or to try to move

545

:

together with some buying activity,

you can't get anybody on board.

546

:

So

547

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: Right.

548

:

That's

549

:

Roger King: we've avoided those pitfalls.

550

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: Yeah.

551

:

That makes sense.

552

:

Roger King: So that's

a big non-negotiable.

553

:

you know, unfortunately with franchisor

franchisee style arrangements,

554

:

there's a lot of non-negotiables.

555

:

but they're always data-driven.

556

:

You know, we, we've always been able to

maintain great relationships within our

557

:

network because when we make a decision

whether or not a franchisee agrees with

558

:

it, we make it based on the national data,

the insights that we have access to that

559

:

really drive what works and what doesn't.

560

:

Based on what's happening

at 103 other locations.

561

:

They have their insight,

562

:

Mike Philbrick: tell us a little bit

about the art and science of that being,

563

:

being a quantitative asset managers.

564

:

We, we, we tend to defer to that.

565

:

in our marketing would be

the same sort of thing.

566

:

Tell us more about how do you, do

you have a, a dashboard or a panel?

567

:

How do you get an inkling of those,

early things or those directions

568

:

that you should move in, if you will.

569

:

Um,

570

:

Roger King: Oh, man, Jonathan Sharpe, who

I spoke about earlier, he could, he could

571

:

give you a half an hour session on that.

572

:

we every day receive a statement

digitally, from every single location

573

:

with their top line, their profit

margin, tickets through the door,

574

:

average ticket, all the metrics that the

owner should be, you know, paying for.

575

:

day to day basis.

576

:

Anomalies things that fall outside of

our margin minimums or if a store's

577

:

number appears off, we'll dig into or

we'll make an ask just to see if there

578

:

perhaps was a receiving error or if

it's something that they need to look

579

:

into a little closer on their end.

580

:

We pay close attention for is

our customer shopping with us?

581

:

What's a typical life cycle of a customer?

582

:

what's our drop off rate versus opt

in rate with, our email marketing?

583

:

Jonathan looks at everything.

584

:

we look at turn rates per category, per

linear inch of store to determine how

585

:

much, how much space is, is functional

foods getting versus intra workout.

586

:

And we make adjustments to

the floor plan accordingly.

587

:

Mike Philbrick: Per linear

588

:

Roger King: love this stuff.

589

:

You would love this stuff.

590

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: And so as, that

evolves, I imagine that there's.

591

:

You got to move quicker than ever now

with social media as things trend.

592

:

And as a, I don't know, lifestyle guru

becomes huge and says that, you know,

593

:

taking a particular type of supplement

is going to 10 X your gains that do do

594

:

you follow that as a team, follow that

in order to decide what you're going

595

:

to start offering in the stores and

real estate inside the stores as or are

596

:

you kind of Immune to that right now.

597

:

Is there not a lot of

598

:

Roger King: Well, you know, we've seen so

many things come and go over the years.

599

:

I mean, if I can think of even over the

past five to 10 years, carbs are bad.

600

:

Now carbs are good.

601

:

You know, you had the Atkins, Atkins

days, you had the raspberry ketones.

602

:

We're going to solve all your problems.

603

:

there are all kinds of things.

604

:

And you know, there was some

merit to all of these things.

605

:

But not, it wasn't your silver bullet.

606

:

So there's no such thing

as a silver bullet.

607

:

And then, you know, we're not going to

redesign or, or restage a store on the

608

:

basis of a fat, but you will see, you

will see some uplift on an interesting,

609

:

it's, if it's got a little bit of legs

and has a little bit of a following,

610

:

you'll see some uplift on that front.

611

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: Interesting.

612

:

So let's, let's talk a little bit

about the content marketing approach

613

:

and how you guys, you mentioned a

little bit about email and getting

614

:

those metrics, but how do you guys

work with social media these days?

615

:

Crazy.

616

:

Roger King: it's something that

we've been working to evolve.

617

:

We've been evolving our social media

strategy over the past six months.

618

:

And, so Megan, who's, working in

the office here, works with Nikki,

619

:

who would be her boss, our director.

620

:

And together they're executing, I

believe at a high level on an influencer

621

:

strategy where they have a group of, they

call them micro and macro influencers.

622

:

So some are.

623

:

You know, a much broader reach,

much broader audience, perhaps,

624

:

perhaps national in scope.

625

:

And then there are others

that might be much more niche.

626

:

maybe they're popular in Saskatoon

and have a little bit of a

627

:

following elsewhere in the prairies.

628

:

But, you know, when I look at the posts

that I see, that we're doing, which

629

:

are traditional, you know, we send them

our goods during a promotional cycle.

630

:

They might wear our new limited

drop products and talk about them.

631

:

I feel that the authenticity that

comes around that, influencer style

632

:

marketing is the new way to market.

633

:

data wise, we have a 400 percent

lift on click through activity from

634

:

these types of posts than we do on a

traditional ad slider, you know, like

635

:

everybody's ad sliders now are just noise.

636

:

Right?

637

:

You know, and I, and I find it so

interesting because I know people

638

:

know they're being marketed to.

639

:

There's, there's no way to hide it.

640

:

In fact, you even need to put hashtag

sponsored or hashtag paid right in

641

:

the post as a, formality, but people

trust, they gain a trust, they gain

642

:

an admiration or they gain a respect.

643

:

And, you know, then they, they

will digest that marketing.

644

:

They will take it in and absorb it.

645

:

So it's, it's really fascinating.

646

:

Mike Philbrick: I think it's that

function of, and maybe this all

647

:

started with, you know, the guys like,

Rogan and Tim, Tim Ferris, right?

648

:

Like I only, I only talk about the

things that I like and use and at an

649

:

influencer level, it's, yeah, I'm being

compensated, but I'm only doing the

650

:

things that I like and use and feel.

651

:

And if you're like me,

you'll like these things.

652

:

And I have to say, when you find

someone who kind of has your same

653

:

tastes or inclinations, you're like,

you pick three or four of them.

654

:

And you're like, Oh yeah, I do

like what this guy or gal likes.

655

:

Like I actually have,

you know, common tastes.

656

:

And so you can really kind of

micro down your, you know, where

657

:

you're getting your referral from.

658

:

It's almost like that hybrid

of a word of mouth, but it's

659

:

kind of paid word of mouth.

660

:

And you're not, you're not

going to hit on all of them.

661

:

You'll get some stinkers from the

people, but you're like, Oh, it's fine.

662

:

The

663

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: And if you like

the personality, even if they

664

:

like, look, Mike is constantly

saying, I like this, I like that.

665

:

And I stupidly buy it and hate it,

but I keep doing it because he's

666

:

such a lovable personality, right?

667

:

Like he's dead wrong on his

product choices, but look at him.

668

:

He's absolutely amazing.

669

:

Right?

670

:

So I think oftentimes it's just that,

that ability to have a personality

671

:

attached to these products.

672

:

That to me is amazing.

673

:

And, you know, sadly in our business,

it's just an impossible thing to do

674

:

given regulatory guidelines, right?

675

:

You have to, you'd have to make them

have 20, 000 disclosures after they

676

:

make a statement about your product,

paying for them, but, I, I do envy the

677

:

ability to kind of lever these new ways

and these new social media outlets.

678

:

And.

679

:

I know that you may not know

this, but I know that certain

680

:

media outlets do a better job than

others of maximizing your reach.

681

:

And I know that TikTok in particular

has a pretty explosive algorithm.

682

:

Have you guys, do you have a

preference for influencer, influencer

683

:

in which platform or do you not,

have you not gotten there yet?

684

:

Roger King: I know that,

that, so I'm not on tikTok.

685

:

I, I, you know, I'm on Instagram

and Facebook almost begrudgingly.

686

:

I'm just in that I'm 44 and I, I

feel like I need to be tapped into

687

:

what's going on with the stores.

688

:

Cause each store has, has,

has an Instagram account.

689

:

And many of our stores

have TikTok accounts.

690

:

I just can't get there to

have another social media.

691

:

I feel like the time suck with Facebook

and Instagram alone is, is too much.

692

:

But, Nikki and Megan have told me that

the interaction with TikTok is explosive.

693

:

It is where they are focusing

a lot of their attention.

694

:

And yes, they are choosing,

uh, influencers that, that have

695

:

followers, but most importantly,

that have followers here in Canada.

696

:

Uh, because you could be from Calgary

and all of your followers or your

697

:

viewership could be from Texas.

698

:

And that isn't necessarily at this

point in our business, beneficial to us.

699

:

that's not to say that the next

three to four years that couldn't

700

:

change, but, the agency that we used

initially, and we still do use to some

701

:

degree is what's called hashtag paid.

702

:

They would vet the

viewership or the followers.

703

:

To determine the where and then

you would be able to preview the

704

:

post or the recording to make sure

it was on brand, make sure it hit

705

:

everything that you wanted to achieve.

706

:

Also to make sure that didn't hit

on anything you don't want out there

707

:

publicly, because there's a little bit

of that risk with authenticity, right?

708

:

Be a little too authentic or

perhaps make a statement that,

709

:

uh, that you don't necessarily

want the brand standing behind.

710

:

so so far, our venture into,

into influencer marketing has

711

:

been very positive so much.

712

:

In fact, we have committed a

percentage of top line revenue from

713

:

each of the franchisees to fuel

this program starting this year.

714

:

And we received no pushback because

they, they know the stuff is working.

715

:

Mike Philbrick: You see it working.

716

:

And it, yeah, it's, what was really

interesting to me as I learned about that

717

:

was how, you know, you have to be targeted

because you have stores in certain areas.

718

:

You have a geographical boundary

from a country perspective.

719

:

You have some provincial,

provincial boundaries I'm sure.

720

:

So you've got to, you've got to

think through these influencers and

721

:

make sure they're going to connect

and deliver sales to the stores.

722

:

Which is kind of a very interesting

and, painstaking process.

723

:

But then you think about how this,

this art of marketing is going

724

:

micro, right, rather than macro.

725

:

It's, it's going very micro,

very, boots on the ground level.

726

:

and to adapt to that, these

influencers, you're going to

727

:

have influencers at all levels.

728

:

And it's kind of being on

the leading edge of that.

729

:

so is that, do you find your competition

is doing a bit of that, or is that

730

:

a, a definite advantage for you as

you're trying to continue to stay

731

:

ahead of the wave in the marketing of,

732

:

Roger King: You know, I haven't

seen them do anything with, uh,

733

:

with any degree of organization.

734

:

I'm not, that's not to say that

they aren't using influencers

735

:

or, or people to, you know, to

be spokespeople online for them.

736

:

I do see that, but I don't see

consistency and I don't see formality.

737

:

Consistency is probably the most important

thing with any marketing program.

738

:

You need to be out there with your

message and you need to be out

739

:

there with your message a lot.

740

:

People don't react the first

time they hear a message.

741

:

Once they've heard it a few times over

and over again, that trust, it just

742

:

builds, you know, as a, in a natural way.

743

:

but the influencers

it's, very interesting.

744

:

Some are successful because they're just

so entertaining to watch and to listen

745

:

to, uh, whether it's a guy or a girl,

they deliver the message with so much

746

:

enthusiasm that even though they don't

have any, I guess, accreditation or, or,

747

:

you know, um, Unlike we go to the other

end of the spectrum, we have Ellie Black,

748

:

who's a, you know, an Olympic gymnast.

749

:

And she's one of our, our influencers.

750

:

And she brings with her all that,

comes with her high degree of

751

:

athleticism and, her successes.

752

:

Right.

753

:

So, but everybody has a niche and

it's, it's neat to see it all pieced

754

:

together and be a success as a whole.

755

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: So one of the things

that would be, Interesting on the

756

:

supplement side because I don't know

where it would fit in in terms of

757

:

sensitivity to the economic cycle I know

it's been maybe you've just been on I

758

:

feel like since 2013 we've been on a

boom So you may not know or have been

759

:

through a big cycle But do you find that

there's a lot of sensitivity to profit

760

:

based on what's going on in the economy?

761

:

Mike Philbrick: we COVID too.

762

:

So maybe you can think through that

as a, as a way to think through

763

:

Roger King: Yeah, it's a great question.

764

:

You know, we, we've been looking

at year over year results, and we

765

:

can definitely, so there's a few

things that have, have come up.

766

:

hit our numbers.

767

:

During, coming out of the pandemic, whey

protein and creatine prices were at kind

768

:

of an all time high for recent history.

769

:

as a result, they drove retail pricing,

you know, in a five pound bucket of

770

:

isolate whey in Canada to 120 dollars

a tub, which previously 80 to 90

771

:

had been the norm, uh, pre pandemic.

772

:

Now with the low interest rates

at that time, and with all of the

773

:

government incentive money out

there in the economy, there was no

774

:

friction to that purchase price.

775

:

It was happening day in, day out.

776

:

And I believe that everybody got

a little punch drunk on that.

777

:

because now in order for us to actually

capture a year over year performance

778

:

snapshot, uh, A, we have to back off

those price increases because they've

779

:

come back down to normal levels.

780

:

And, you know, we've really,

we're really looking closely at.

781

:

How often are customers coming in?

782

:

what other, what other things do we

need to normalize in the business?

783

:

Definitely.

784

:

Although average ticket has

gone down a little bit, it

785

:

hasn't gone down dramatically.

786

:

We've seen some slowdown and how quickly

customers come back in to see us.

787

:

I think that there's a real impact

in people, you know, who are

788

:

homeowners out there renewing their

mortgages and they're no longer at 1.

789

:

8 percent or 1.

790

:

9 percent, suddenly they have 1, 500

dollars less a month of disposable income.

791

:

I feel like that, that the economy

and the general feeling of optimism

792

:

that was out there a year ago has,

at least in Canada has dissipated.

793

:

so people are being more careful

about their financial decisions.

794

:

Now on the good news side, for

many people, It seems to be that

795

:

natural health products or protein,

protein powders are almost like

796

:

a grocery or an essential item.

797

:

So for us staying mindful of value

and always ensuring we have an

798

:

offering that's, there for people

who are, changing their budget or

799

:

changing their spending habits.

800

:

We want to still have something that is

of high quality and available to them.

801

:

So we've been able to maintain

that customer traffic.

802

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: It's like coffee.

803

:

Nobody's gonna give up on

their coffee coffee in a

804

:

Roger King: just,

805

:

Mike Philbrick: The downgrade

806

:

Roger King: We'll just

stop buying it for 6 a

807

:

cup

808

:

Mike Philbrick: to go to

809

:

the, go to the, come from the

isolate to the concentrate.

810

:

Roger King: that's, that's right.

811

:

There's, that's right.

812

:

That's right.

813

:

Mike Philbrick: I wonder if, uh, if

we shift gears a little bit and just

814

:

talk about, cause we've talked about

the stores and some of the philosophy,

815

:

but you're, you know, maybe your

personal philosophy on some leadership.

816

:

And principles that have guided you

through business decisions and growth.

817

:

Like we've talked about it, but what

were some of the guiding, you know,

818

:

sort of northern stars that you were

always coming back to as you were

819

:

making business decisions, growing

the team, managing the team, you

820

:

know, good employees, bad employees,

partners, all that sort of stuff.

821

:

Roger King: It, you know, I get asked

this once in a while and it's, it's

822

:

not really an easy thing to define, but

I do always come back to remembering.

823

:

Now I worked almost a decade in my

storefronts, you know, I learned

824

:

the business from the ground up.

825

:

Uh, I had lots of good employees.

826

:

I had some not so good employees, uh,

being very quick to move on from people

827

:

when you get that feeling that things

aren't going well, or they're not

828

:

going to be an organizational fit is

something that I kind of live and die by.

829

:

Now, fortunately, at our office

here at our corporate office,

830

:

we have a very small team.

831

:

and engagement is extremely

high because the work is, is

832

:

challenging, but it's rewarding.

833

:

It's exciting.

834

:

It's a fun kind of a fast place,

youthful energy place to work.

835

:

I'm a little long on the tooth

here at 44, truth be told.

836

:

so, you know, you just

have to ask your daughter.

837

:

the energy and the, and the

ethic and the, and the pride

838

:

in what they do is very high.

839

:

We've actually never

had any turnover here.

840

:

Which is, which is great.

841

:

Now, on the goal setting and on the

business growth and business building,

842

:

I've always looked at short and long

term goals and how they fit together.

843

:

I remember staring down the mall hallway

at the kiosk thinking, All right, here's

844

:

my numbers with one store open, and I can

see what that looks like at five stores.

845

:

You know, add up that labor

piece, see if it's still a good

846

:

business at five locations, and

it made sense to scale to that.

847

:

And then as, you know, that started

to come to fruition, I looked at Well,

848

:

then I had a storefront in front of me.

849

:

All right, well, what would five stores

instead of five kiosks look like?

850

:

Build out that business plan

and, you know, work your

851

:

way towards that micro goal.

852

:

And we've really never stopped doing that.

853

:

We look at, you know, what is this

year with 20 to 24 new stores on

854

:

the calendar look like depending on

when they come on board and how does

855

:

that tie back to our financials?

856

:

in a franchise or franchisee business,

you need to just focus almost all of your

857

:

energy on the success of the franchisee.

858

:

If they don't win, there is no business.

859

:

So we obsess over the franchisee

business plan when there's a price

860

:

change in the market or anything that,

that impacts their business plan.

861

:

We're making sure it continues

to fit so that it yields that net

862

:

income that they need to continue to

grow with us and to be successful.

863

:

So those are the things now that the,

business has changed over the years

864

:

that we, we really kind of hone in on.

865

:

Mike Philbrick: And is it just those micro

goals where you're keeping your eye on the

866

:

horizon to see what, like we talked about,

You know, different marketing approaches,

867

:

different supplements that might come in.

868

:

So you just got an eye on the

horizon as you're doing the one

869

:

to five, five to 50 and so on,

870

:

Roger King: Yeah.

871

:

On the product side, we decided

a few years ago, we were going to

872

:

focus all of our efforts on being

the best retailer we could be instead

873

:

of being a brand building retailer.

874

:

So there are a lot of

brands that approach us.

875

:

They might be new to the market, might be

a very interesting product or something

876

:

that we think could have some legs.

877

:

But now that we have buying power

of all the brands that just sell

878

:

off our shelves organically, we

have to inform them that, you know,

879

:

you need to go back to the market.

880

:

You need to bring us big

direct to consumer numbers.

881

:

You need to show us That you can

sell off our shelves before we take

882

:

time to invest in a listing with you.

883

:

whereas traditionally we might've

said, all right, well, here's a

884

:

strong margin opportunity that we

think our customers would enjoy.

885

:

Let's educate all of our staff around

building this brand in our store.

886

:

As time went on and with scale, we

realized that that model is very

887

:

challenging and not as easily replicable.

888

:

So our approach to products

and our approach to listings

889

:

definitely has changed.

890

:

You know,

891

:

Mike Philbrick: that creating, creating

customers or trying to create a conversion

892

:

in the store is so much harder than

just, you know, people are going to come

893

:

in for stuff and they want to buy it

and make sure you have it and they're

894

:

Roger King: That's right.

895

:

That's right.

896

:

So, so we encourage brands that are

interested in listing with us to

897

:

focus all of their energy on building

that to direct to consumer business.

898

:

That way, if it leads to a listing

with us, we throw it in our flyer

899

:

with a good value proposition, they're

going to run in the door and it's,

900

:

it's worked time and time again.

901

:

Yeah.

902

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: We're still learning it.

903

:

Mike Philbrick: Yeah.

904

:

We're still learning.

905

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: still

say it and talk about it.

906

:

And yet we can't stop trying to convert.

907

:

It's

908

:

Mike Philbrick: That's awesome.

909

:

What about future, the future

innovations, looking ahead,

910

:

just on the supplement industry?

911

:

Are there any products or technologies

that you see that you're excited about?

912

:

That's kind of, you know, thinking

beyond the next sort of little

913

:

piece, but a larger piece.

914

:

Is there, what, what's on the, what's on

the, being a futurist, I'm going to make

915

:

you the futurist at a supplement King.

916

:

Roger King: Oh, wow.

917

:

That's a tough place to tough place to be.

918

:

So not being on the brand side, and

not being the in house expert on the

919

:

brand side I'm a little bit impaired

at making that kind of a judgment call.

920

:

you know, we have our main categories

in the store, which would be pre

921

:

workout, protein powders, intra

workout hydration, functional

922

:

foods, weight gain and creatine.

923

:

Those are the, you know, the

most products that we carry

924

:

live within those categories.

925

:

Over the years, the odd

product comes along that wants

926

:

to redefine a new category.

927

:

And sometimes it does.

928

:

Most often it doesn't.

929

:

it's the reason they're the reason those

categories exist is the ingredients that

930

:

make up those formulations have been

proven to work for people over time,

931

:

you know, will there be advancements

and will there be new things that

932

:

work in different ways or work better?

933

:

Sure.

934

:

there will over, you know, there

will be the odd product over time,

935

:

but you know, supplements just by

the nature of what they are ways to

936

:

nutritionally check some blocks, off

that you could get from diet, but it's

937

:

going to be easier or more efficient

to get from a natural health product.

938

:

So, you know, protein powder,

creatine, BCAAs, intra workout.

939

:

I think that there will be improved

versions of those as time goes on, but

940

:

that's where, where the bulk of the, uh,

the focus and innovation is going to be.

941

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: You need to find a

way to to be allowed to put some GLP 1

942

:

inhibitors on your shelf space there some

943

:

Roger King: Well, Canada is not

the landscape for that, my friend.

944

:

We, uh,

945

:

you know, we, We We certainly suffer from

a fairly strong regulatory environment.

946

:

again, not in the brand side.

947

:

So for us as retailers, we just

simply maintain the, uh, the bar

948

:

of every product on our shelves has

to have a natural product number.

949

:

The NPN is the Health

Canada, seal of approval.

950

:

so we, we maintain that bar, but

we hear a lot of, challenge and

951

:

frustration coming from our brand

partners that want to innovate and

952

:

want to try new things, but they are

a 10 month wait to get an NPN review.

953

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: Have you have you

guys I mean, maybe this wouldn't

954

:

be part of your business But like

peptides that are becoming really

955

:

popular right now Are those is that

is that kind of dying now given the

956

:

regulatory changes in the US or is it?

957

:

Something that you guys would look at

958

:

Roger King: so in Canada, that would

be kind of a gray market product.

959

:

not something that we could

legally sell also, perhaps not

960

:

something that would be illegal.

961

:

but for us, we would see

that as a brand risk.

962

:

if it doesn't have an NPN, if it's

not clearly meeting the regulatory

963

:

requirements here in Canada, we just

can't have that become a headline for us.

964

:

So, so unfortunately, you know,

we are, we are certainly, at the

965

:

mercy of, of regulatory agencies.

966

:

And I think that you could probably

empathize with that in one way or another.

967

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: well You can

Yes, regulatory, the regulators

968

:

not allowing us to be innovative is

definitely a thing in our industry.

969

:

Um, but I guess having the, that level

of focus, you know, you, you basically

970

:

end up with beaten potatoes, right?

971

:

You have to deliver whey protein

into workout, hydration, as you

972

:

said, and then, and then the rest is

just about optimizing for eyeballs

973

:

and people coming into your store.

974

:

I guess it could be kind of

seen as a blessing in disguise.

975

:

Rather than having 150 products

that you don't know much about.

976

:

And

977

:

Roger King: No, very, very true.

978

:

And a home brand is also something

that, you know, at this scale,

979

:

we could certainly execute on.

980

:

GNC had a home brand.

981

:

I'm sure you guys are well aware.

982

:

In my opinion, it was part of their demise

in Canada because You know, their, their

983

:

associates were also paid a commission,

very heavily weighted on that home brand.

984

:

as a result, a lot of their sales

became very vertical and their numbers

985

:

with the national brands, which is

what people truly want, dropped off.

986

:

Uh, and you know, when you're

in a franchisee, franchisor kind

987

:

of system, franchisees will sell

what's best for their business.

988

:

Nobody can blame them for that.

989

:

If we offered a five point advantage

home brand with protein powders and

990

:

creatines, and well, I mean, our

sales would get very vertical as well.

991

:

And then when we try to do that flyer to

attract people into the store and call

992

:

up our biggest national brand partners,

they would say, well, we're, we're tired

993

:

of being bait and switched, and I think

we're going to take our support elsewhere.

994

:

So that's a big risk,

995

:

right?

996

:

Rodrigo Gordillo: switch.

997

:

I was wondering what the issue

was for those national partners.

998

:

I also remember like from, I remember

going in to GNC and being like,

999

:

there's a zero chance your brand is

better than whatever name the next,

:

00:52:28,512 --> 00:52:29,542

I don't even know the other brands.

:

00:52:29,562 --> 00:52:32,082

I just felt like they couldn't be as good.

:

00:52:32,232 --> 00:52:33,582

There was just something about it.

:

00:52:33,592 --> 00:52:33,932

You know,

:

00:52:34,007 --> 00:52:37,207

Roger King: You know, a good salesperson

can talk you into it, but there's

:

00:52:37,207 --> 00:52:41,157

always that feeling after the sale

where you went in for the national

:

00:52:41,157 --> 00:52:44,987

brand and you left with the home brand

and then you get home and a week or

:

00:52:44,987 --> 00:52:46,207

two later you say, you know what?

:

00:52:46,347 --> 00:52:51,227

I really wanted the national brand and I

got sold and I don't ever want somebody

:

00:52:51,227 --> 00:52:55,843

leaving one of my stores and saying,

or our stores and saying, I felt sold.

:

00:52:57,703 --> 00:52:58,033

Mike Philbrick: love it.

:

00:52:58,703 --> 00:53:01,653

On a, uh, on a more personal note,

because we're, we're getting close

:

00:53:01,653 --> 00:53:05,360

to an hour and, appreciate the

time you've spent with us thus far.

:

00:53:05,410 --> 00:53:08,400

and I just want to know about, you

know, maybe some of your personal

:

00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,970

interests, like outside of being a

very successful entrepreneur in the

:

00:53:13,060 --> 00:53:17,670

fitness and supplement game, what other

passions does, uh, does Roger King have?

:

00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:18,503

Roger King: Uh, geez.

:

00:53:18,503 --> 00:53:20,740

Well, I'm a very, very mediocre golfer.

:

00:53:20,940 --> 00:53:21,700

Um,

:

00:53:21,810 --> 00:53:23,450

but I enjoy it.

:

00:53:23,535 --> 00:53:25,565

Mike Philbrick: passion to

become a mediocre golfer, to be

:

00:53:25,695 --> 00:53:26,805

Roger King: lots of passion.

:

00:53:26,895 --> 00:53:28,885

Uh, I like the, I like the walk.

:

00:53:28,885 --> 00:53:30,095

I like everything about it.

:

00:53:30,175 --> 00:53:32,775

I like that I, I didn't learn

how to play golf growing up.

:

00:53:32,805 --> 00:53:36,425

And so it's something that I've

really dove into as a, as an adult.

:

00:53:36,748 --> 00:53:41,578

I've got two daughters, six and nine, and,

they're, they dance competitively, which

:

00:53:41,578 --> 00:53:43,928

is having not had sisters growing up.

:

00:53:44,108 --> 00:53:46,138

The whole world of dance is new to me.

:

00:53:46,628 --> 00:53:48,778

And this is theiceless AAA hockey.

:

00:53:48,838 --> 00:53:49,418

Like it is.

:

00:53:49,963 --> 00:53:50,313

It is.

:

00:53:50,373 --> 00:53:52,013

Rodrigo Gordillo: My daughters

are watching a show about

:

00:53:52,013 --> 00:53:52,823

that on Netflix right

:

00:53:53,033 --> 00:53:54,363

Roger King: Ah, it's intense.

:

00:53:54,493 --> 00:53:54,703

It's

:

00:53:54,903 --> 00:53:56,583

Rodrigo Gordillo: And

they are obsessed with it.

:

00:53:56,843 --> 00:53:57,523

Roger King: Yeah,

:

00:53:57,693 --> 00:53:58,653

look, you know,

:

00:53:58,912 --> 00:53:59,392

Rodrigo Gordillo: it is, it

:

00:53:59,417 --> 00:54:02,760

Roger King: I appreciate when

something's, now they love it.

:

00:54:02,770 --> 00:54:04,350

So that's what drives this whole thing.

:

00:54:04,380 --> 00:54:09,240

And that's what, you know, gives Lindsay

and I the ability to give up dozens

:

00:54:09,240 --> 00:54:12,500

of hours each week to drive them and

spend time of practices and whatnot.

:

00:54:12,500 --> 00:54:14,220

So they really, truly do enjoy it.

:

00:54:14,580 --> 00:54:16,720

But I like seeing them do hard things.

:

00:54:17,010 --> 00:54:19,977

And I also like seeing them

not succeed every time.

:

00:54:20,377 --> 00:54:22,777

I love when they, you know,

it's great when they win.

:

00:54:22,777 --> 00:54:24,567

They've won a few times at competitions.

:

00:54:24,587 --> 00:54:28,267

There's only Three competitions that

you spend your whole year preparing for.

:

00:54:28,627 --> 00:54:31,347

So it's, you know, there's

a pressure situation.

:

00:54:31,527 --> 00:54:33,517

There's a moment of success or failure.

:

00:54:33,707 --> 00:54:35,807

There's management of

the feelings around them.

:

00:54:35,807 --> 00:54:39,397

And I know they're only six and nine,

but I love all that stuff because I

:

00:54:39,417 --> 00:54:41,667

think those are real life lessons.

:

00:54:41,677 --> 00:54:45,347

And you know, sometimes it's a little

bit difficult to teach your six

:

00:54:45,347 --> 00:54:48,497

and nine year old what struggle in

the face of adversity is all about.

:

00:54:49,102 --> 00:54:50,552

Rodrigo Gordillo: you have

to do everything possible

:

00:54:50,552 --> 00:54:52,252

to manufacture pain for your

:

00:54:52,552 --> 00:54:55,612

Roger King: Oh, and you got to get my

wife on board with that because she

:

00:54:55,632 --> 00:54:56,132

Rodrigo Gordillo: Oh no,

:

00:54:56,462 --> 00:54:58,142

Roger King: solutions

to all their problems.

:

00:54:58,182 --> 00:54:58,882

Rodrigo Gordillo: my daughter,

:

00:54:59,362 --> 00:55:03,478

my daughter started, I put her into

Jiu Jitsu because I, I have a martial

:

00:55:03,478 --> 00:55:08,798

arts background and there is no better

sport to learn about the pain of losing

:

00:55:08,898 --> 00:55:11,558

than on a daily basis in Jiu Jitsu.

:

00:55:11,938 --> 00:55:15,425

And so I figured that'll create

some sort of pain threshold.

:

00:55:15,425 --> 00:55:16,105

And it was about.

:

00:55:16,352 --> 00:55:20,052

Giving as much pain to my children

as possible without having it be

:

00:55:20,262 --> 00:55:21,782

traumatized for the rest of their lives.

:

00:55:21,782 --> 00:55:25,702

So that's kind of my goal in life with my

children, just constant pain all the time.

:

00:55:26,402 --> 00:55:28,372

And I remember going to

the first competition.

:

00:55:28,932 --> 00:55:32,142

We walk in, she was expecting a

smaller venue, but we walk into

:

00:55:32,142 --> 00:55:37,132

this massive gymnasium, doors wide

open, and my daughter starts bawling

:

00:55:37,362 --> 00:55:41,015

and my wife grabs her and says, we're

turning around right now and leaving.

:

00:55:42,263 --> 00:55:45,023

And as my daughter's crying, like

she's crying because she's there,

:

00:55:45,253 --> 00:55:48,903

turns around to my wife's like, I'm

no, I've been training for five months.

:

00:55:48,903 --> 00:55:51,923

I'm going, she was nine at the

time, probably even younger.

:

00:55:52,353 --> 00:55:54,923

I'm going to, and then she

cried her way through it, but

:

00:55:54,953 --> 00:55:56,653

won a gold, won her gold medal.

:

00:55:57,023 --> 00:55:59,793

But every single competition we've gone

to, my wife has done the same thing.

:

00:56:00,078 --> 00:56:01,668

Whenever you want to leave,

you just let me know.

:

00:56:01,698 --> 00:56:06,825

So I've had zero success in trying to

get my wife on board this pain train.

:

00:56:07,545 --> 00:56:09,485

But I think it's

absolutely crucial, right?

:

00:56:09,485 --> 00:56:12,965

Cause they live such a privileged

life that you really, the only way

:

00:56:12,965 --> 00:56:14,015

you can do it is through sport.

:

00:56:14,155 --> 00:56:16,395

Roger King: Without a little bit

of struggle, how do you build

:

00:56:16,395 --> 00:56:17,885

resilience without resilience?

:

00:56:17,935 --> 00:56:20,045

How, how do you achieve any success?

:

00:56:20,055 --> 00:56:24,725

And you know, all of these things that

I think, I think we live a very similar

:

00:56:24,725 --> 00:56:26,205

life, although how old is she now?

:

00:56:26,205 --> 00:56:26,615

Is she

:

00:56:26,785 --> 00:56:29,015

Rodrigo Gordillo: She's now

12 and she just came back.

:

00:56:29,015 --> 00:56:31,665

We did her first rugby tournament.

:

00:56:31,715 --> 00:56:36,307

We went to Miami and she was faced

with, you know, American grown girls.

:

00:56:36,597 --> 00:56:37,097

They were.

:

00:56:37,182 --> 00:56:37,612

Roger King: right.

:

00:56:38,072 --> 00:56:40,122

Rodrigo Gordillo: They

were large and in charge.

:

00:56:40,132 --> 00:56:42,922

It was like our Canadian girls.

:

00:56:42,922 --> 00:56:48,279

And then these American look like

women just, just destroyed them.

:

00:56:48,419 --> 00:56:48,699

Okay.

:

00:56:48,699 --> 00:56:51,539

Like the under 18s one, they won

both of their games and it was the

:

00:56:51,549 --> 00:56:53,759

first time that came in girls at one.

:

00:56:53,759 --> 00:56:55,169

This is a brand new program.

:

00:56:55,249 --> 00:57:00,965

My girls in under 14, I coached, they

just got through their first year of

:

00:57:00,965 --> 00:57:05,665

training, so it was kind of expected,

but listen, you know, they all, Half

:

00:57:05,665 --> 00:57:08,135

of them came out momentarily injured.

:

00:57:08,145 --> 00:57:09,265

They got plowed through.

:

00:57:09,385 --> 00:57:12,435

They were, they were tears, but they

were getting up with tears in their

:

00:57:12,435 --> 00:57:14,515

eyes and getting back and pushing hard.

:

00:57:14,525 --> 00:57:14,925

So.

:

00:57:15,595 --> 00:57:18,535

And then when they were done, they

had the best time of their lives.

:

00:57:19,465 --> 00:57:19,785

Rotary.

:

00:57:19,815 --> 00:57:20,995

It was just, it was great.

:

00:57:21,085 --> 00:57:25,225

So yeah, we, we've been able

to, at 12, transition her.

:

00:57:25,225 --> 00:57:27,225

She's still doing jiu jitsu,

but she's now doing rugby.

:

00:57:27,725 --> 00:57:31,605

And it's, um, you know, I mean,

Mike, you, you, your daughter played

:

00:57:31,605 --> 00:57:33,085

rugby through college too, right?

:

00:57:33,085 --> 00:57:33,775

So you know how tough

:

00:57:33,810 --> 00:57:34,120

Mike Philbrick: Yeah.

:

00:57:34,190 --> 00:57:34,560

Yeah.

:

00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:34,900

I

:

00:57:35,100 --> 00:57:37,850

my daughters have, I'm sure

many stories about how much of

:

00:57:37,850 --> 00:57:39,040

an asshole I am on that stuff.

:

00:57:40,220 --> 00:57:43,040

Throw away your participation

trophy before we leave the field.

:

00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:46,940

Throw away your second place

trophy because it disrespects

:

00:57:46,940 --> 00:57:47,930

the champions trophy.

:

00:57:50,815 --> 00:57:51,105

Roger King: I feel

:

00:57:51,105 --> 00:57:53,345

like there's a whole other

podcast to be had here.

:

00:57:53,395 --> 00:57:53,635

So

:

00:57:53,660 --> 00:57:54,650

Mike Philbrick: are the speeches I gave.

:

00:57:54,660 --> 00:57:55,770

Three guys with daughters.

:

00:57:55,790 --> 00:57:56,840

This is the new podcast.

:

00:57:57,030 --> 00:57:58,290

Three guys with two daughters.

:

00:57:58,875 --> 00:58:00,305

Roger King: I love it,

but you know what, though?

:

00:58:00,315 --> 00:58:01,845

We only just want the best for them.

:

00:58:01,845 --> 00:58:02,165

And that's,

:

00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:03,080

Mike Philbrick: You got it.

:

00:58:03,970 --> 00:58:06,690

Roger King: As for hobbies, I have

time for a little bit of golf.

:

00:58:06,690 --> 00:58:08,420

I do a whole lot of dance practice.

:

00:58:08,790 --> 00:58:11,930

Um, you know, I, I like to get

out on the boat a little bit.

:

00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:16,050

We live on, on, on a lake and Nova

Scotia is beautiful in the summer.

:

00:58:16,330 --> 00:58:18,740

We've got a whole six weeks

of summer to enjoy the lake.

:

00:58:18,850 --> 00:58:20,010

Uh, so, you know,

:

00:58:21,340 --> 00:58:22,550

Rodrigo Gordillo: was going to

say, do you have an icebreaker?

:

00:58:22,550 --> 00:58:23,560

Is that an icebreaker, bro?

:

00:58:24,260 --> 00:58:24,630

Roger King: yeah,

:

00:58:24,870 --> 00:58:25,730

Mike Philbrick: Well, it's saltwater.

:

00:58:25,970 --> 00:58:26,760

Rodrigo Gordillo: Yeah,

that's fair enough.

:

00:58:27,390 --> 00:58:28,000

Mike Philbrick: I'm kidding.

:

00:58:28,001 --> 00:58:30,420

Oh, that's awesome.

:

00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,350

I got one last little

fun question for you.

:

00:58:33,530 --> 00:58:36,950

And, uh, it's if you could have

a superpower to help you run your

:

00:58:36,950 --> 00:58:39,307

business, what would it be and why?

:

00:58:39,707 --> 00:58:42,627

Given what you know now of what you've

run, what you're going to be building.

:

00:58:42,837 --> 00:58:44,807

Roger King: Do I get a job

at Google if I get it right?

:

00:58:44,807 --> 00:58:44,967

Mike Philbrick: Yeah,

:

00:58:44,977 --> 00:58:46,177

Roger King: So yeah,

:

00:58:46,787 --> 00:58:48,077

Mike Philbrick: maybe,

I don't know if they're

:

00:58:48,472 --> 00:58:53,592

Roger King: I think that any entrepreneur

would quickly jump to clairvoyance

:

00:58:53,592 --> 00:58:55,162

or the ability to see the future.

:

00:58:55,512 --> 00:58:57,322

it's like any space.

:

00:58:57,372 --> 00:58:59,062

I think it's fast changing.

:

00:58:59,062 --> 00:58:59,912

It's fast pace.

:

00:59:00,392 --> 00:59:04,362

Your customer is consuming marketing in

a different way every couple of years.

:

00:59:04,722 --> 00:59:08,562

You know, what worked a couple of years

ago doesn't necessarily work today.

:

00:59:08,662 --> 00:59:13,787

so if I could see the future and be

ahead of that, Of that curve on, you

:

00:59:13,787 --> 00:59:18,127

know, what people are looking for and how

they're looking to, consume marketing.

:

00:59:18,417 --> 00:59:22,117

I feel like we would be better for

our franchisees and we can improve

:

00:59:22,117 --> 00:59:23,677

their business plans that much more.

:

00:59:24,047 --> 00:59:24,477

So

:

00:59:24,877 --> 00:59:27,307

Mike Philbrick: Clairvoyance is not

about, that's a pretty good one, actually.

:

00:59:27,337 --> 00:59:27,497

Roger King: Yeah.

:

00:59:28,767 --> 00:59:29,167

Rodrigo Gordillo: want that

:

00:59:29,237 --> 00:59:30,517

Mike Philbrick: I think

Clairvoyance is pretty good.

:

00:59:30,517 --> 00:59:30,777

Yeah.

:

00:59:30,807 --> 00:59:32,527

First of all, I would vote for the same.

:

00:59:32,907 --> 00:59:33,877

Roger King: Yes, I agree.

:

00:59:34,857 --> 00:59:36,427

Mike Philbrick: Well, thank

you, Roger, for taking the

:

00:59:36,437 --> 00:59:38,260

time, spend an hour with us.

:

00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:39,660

Great entrepreneurial story.

:

00:59:39,660 --> 00:59:40,290

Really loved it.

:

00:59:40,690 --> 00:59:41,820

where can people find you?

:

00:59:41,830 --> 00:59:43,960

You're, I mean, obviously supplementking.

:

00:59:43,961 --> 00:59:44,100

com.

:

00:59:44,270 --> 00:59:44,710

CA.

:

00:59:44,900 --> 00:59:46,550

Roger King: Yeah, dot ca or dot com.

:

00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:47,570

is where we are.

:

00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:52,620

We don't ship outside of Canada

currently, but when we begin expansion

:

00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:56,200

into the USA within about three

years time, that's going to change.

:

00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:59,570

We're going to look at a new supply

chain and a new way to move products,

:

00:59:59,570 --> 01:00:02,877

but, to all those Canadians, and I

do know a few of them living down in

:

01:00:02,877 --> 01:00:06,837

Cayman, a big hello, and I can't wait

to come and visit the island again.

:

01:00:06,837 --> 01:00:08,517

I had my first visit last year.

:

01:00:08,847 --> 01:00:11,277

Uh, over the March,

this kid's school break.

:

01:00:11,607 --> 01:00:13,747

well, I admit I didn't

leave the hotel grounds.

:

01:00:13,747 --> 01:00:16,247

It was one of those vacations,

not a traveling trip.

:

01:00:16,627 --> 01:00:20,447

Uh, we had a hell of a time and seven mile

beach was among the best I've ever been.

:

01:00:21,687 --> 01:00:21,867

Mike Philbrick: Yeah.

:

01:00:22,087 --> 01:00:24,767

And then, and then you personally,

do you have a, Twitter handle or

:

01:00:24,767 --> 01:00:26,157

Instagram handle that you share or not?

:

01:00:26,177 --> 01:00:26,827

That's not really

:

01:00:26,907 --> 01:00:27,637

Roger King: Yeah, sure.

:

01:00:27,637 --> 01:00:31,597

I I'm, I am supplement King is, uh,

is what Nikki and marketing thought

:

01:00:31,597 --> 01:00:33,517

would be a cool Instagram for me.

:

01:00:33,587 --> 01:00:34,897

So that's, that's who I am.

:

01:00:35,287 --> 01:00:35,727

Mike Philbrick: love it.

:

01:00:36,627 --> 01:00:37,127

Rodrigo Gordillo: Beautiful.

:

01:00:37,797 --> 01:00:38,507

Thank you roger.

:

01:00:38,667 --> 01:00:39,367

Very insightful.

:

01:00:39,807 --> 01:00:40,567

Roger King: it was a real pleasure.

:

01:00:40,567 --> 01:00:40,987

Thank you.

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