Yesterday, I was jazzed to talk to liane@thecollegedollar.com for 30 minutes about what parents need to know about College Tuition, Finacial Aid, Financial Fit, and Planning for the Finances of College.

In this podcast you will get answers to these questions: 

• How do you start a college Budget?
• Why is a budget important?
• Should everyone submit the FAFSA? CSS Profile?
• What is the best way to get merit scholarships?
• One of the best ways to get money from colleges?
• What do you mean by financially fit colleges?
• Why is a tuition bill review important?
• And more!

Okay.

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Happy Tuesday.

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My name is Laura Barr.

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I'm the owner and founder of

Emerging Educational Consulting.

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We provide one to one mentorship for

students and parents from the beginning

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to end of the college application process.

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Our mission is to support

families in raising good humans.

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And I always say, What a better

way than to provide information and

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education to empower and inform.

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So I am very excited to

introduce Leanne Crane.

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Leanne, I have been following you

through our HECA organization because

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you are always generous with your

information, resources and time.

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And I think you do have

an incredible niche.

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In our field.

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And I'm just going to let you introduce

yourself and then I have buckets of

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questions, so we're just going to dive in.

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Sounds good.

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Thanks so much, Lori.

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I appreciate you having me and

yes, I love following your podcast.

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Um, I think it's so true and I have

to say, I think sometimes we kind of

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forget that along the way as we go

through this college search journey.

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So, , I have opened the

college dollar, , right.

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Pre COVID.

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And before that I was working

with a college consulting company.

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And so, I think the easiest way

to explain it is I've had three

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kids in college at the same time.

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And my husband kept poking me saying,

how are we paying for college?

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And , you know, working in the college

consulting world, we'd go through,

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as you know, the whole process and

may 1st, we'd clap and send them off.

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And then we'd get calls

on, well, now what do I do?

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How do I pay what's going next?

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And we'd be like.

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Call a bank.

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And it just didn't feel like we were

kind of completing their whole journey

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and understanding this college.

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So I really professionally and

personally kind of delved right

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into what is financial aid really?

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How do you really pay for college?

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And, you know, learned all I could and

got certified and reached out to experts.

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And hopefully now, , I'm a little

bit of an expert there and just.

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Really passionate about educating

parents on on how to pay for college

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and with that, you know, financial aid.

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So really looking forward to answering

some of your questions and hoping

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educating some people along the way.

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Thank you so much for being here.

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I empathize.

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I have four kids who are all launched

and post college and I'm I sometimes just

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wake up and I'm like, I'm so glad that's

over because the anxiety and stress from

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the time that they are born to the time

that you get that first tuition bill, it

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is always ever present in our culture.

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And I think , we don't have enough

access to accurate information,

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even college consultants, right?

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So let's dive into how do you

even start budgeting for college?

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Where does a family begin?

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So I think the easiest way

to explain it is there's only

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three ways to pay for college.

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So it's really simple.

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Have you saved any money?

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And it doesn't have to be in a 529 money.

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Many people put it, you know, in its

own special savings account, under the

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pillow, you know, wherever you're saving.

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So if we have anything saved, second

way is if you're going to alter your

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cash flow in any way, which I think

is probably the hardest one for people

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to , kind of wrap their head around.

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Like I don't get to go on vacation or

I don't get pizza and beer on Friday

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nights, you know, but, you know,

looking at your cash flow and is there

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any money in there to pay for college?

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And if those 2 don't add up to

the colleges you're looking at,

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then you have to take on debt.

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So those are the 3 ways and sitting

down and speaking with your child, your

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spouse, your ex spouse, and figuring out

how much money in each bucket can really

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save a lifetime of angst and stress.

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You know, whether it's for one

kid or all kids, over the year.

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So I think it's really important to

kind of start your journey there.

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I often say to my families, and this

is just personally, I say, I, my goal

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is for you to never have to take out

debt or to compromise your retirement.

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And do you follow that?

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And then do you follow that?

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Or is there ever a time where taking out

a loan is something that's a good idea?

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, so yeah, never touch retirement.

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I remember years back, we had

someone who drained it to get his

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son into Princeton and then he

ended up dropping out junior year.

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So that's just an awful

story, but things happen.

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So never touch retirement, but I

think loans kind of have a bad rap.

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There's a lot of, politics surrounding

them right now where it shouldn't be.

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And I definitely think there are.

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Good cases for loans, especially the

student loans, which, you know, I'm

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happy to go into and parent debt.

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I think is a whole different story.

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I think that's where that.

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Budget and kind of that whole thought.

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I find that people take on the debt and

the most important thing is they haven't

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figured out how to repay the debt.

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Who's repaying the debt?

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you know, I'll get calls from parents who

are like, well, my son's not paying it.

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It's not his debt.

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You know, and there wasn't

that communication initially on

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how are we paying for college

if we're taking on debt?

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Whose debt is it?

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And how are we repaying that?

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And if you can answer those

questions, and I don't think

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that is necessarily a bad thing.

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I think it's kind of very emotional and

we get the acceptance and we get the name

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across our sweatshirt and then parents are

like, okay, I guess we're taking on debt.

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And that's really where I find,

, you know, what the media kind of

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harps on is where this student

loan crisis is coming into play.

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The emotional piece around talking

about money is something that I really

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wanted to take head on in my practice.

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And when I coach either

college consultants or I

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coach parents, I really just.

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Want to bring it to the forefront

and say, I'm going to be the kind of

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person who wants to sit with your child

and talk about money and I want to

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talk about money because I don't want

your student to get into a school.

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You can't pay for and

have them devastated.

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And I also want if they are going to have

loans, Then let's make those agreements

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and let's make sure everybody is

really clear and let's write them down.

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So we're all on the same page.

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, why do you think it's so hard

for us to talk about money?

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Why is it so difficult

for parents to talk to?

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Their kids, about money.

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I think probably from what I've seen,

it's they're not comfortable with

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their own decisions, so they kind of

feel either bad about discussing it

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or unsure of what to say that their

students or their children don't end up.

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, you know, if they haven't saved,

they get kind of resentful in a

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way like now I have to pay for it.

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I'm really sorry I didn't save when

that, you know, that isn't the case.

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Life is busy and it's expensive.

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And, you know, if you have more than

one kid, how, how do you save for two,

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three, four, you know, 529s kind of thing.

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But I think, you know, as you, as you so

profoundly say all the time that we're

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trying to grow these good humans and

taking on debt isn't always setting them

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up for success, whether it's the, you

know, the parent debt or the student debt.

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And I think parents really

need to look long and hard on.

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You know, the goal of college is to

set them up, you know, you want them to

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get a job and get out of your basement.

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And, you know, if you're expecting

them to pay, you know, some

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debt back again, just those

conversations , in a little forethought.

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Really goes a long way.

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You just said something that I think

maybe some of my families might and I

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relate to is it was hard to be in a, I

live in a privileged area and I raised

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my kids within, we are privileged.

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Yeah, we were a middle income family.

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I'm an entrepreneur and I'm

constantly just trying to come up

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with my clients for the next year.

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And it was hard because I really

did have to say to my kids.

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Listen, I can cover

this much anything else.

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You're going to have to either get merit

or scholarship, but this is what I can

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cover and it was hard when they were

surrounded by other kids and families

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who were happy to pay everything.

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So let's get to the heart of it.

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How do families get money?

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Yeah.

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So I wish I had a great answer for you.

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I think part of that journey again,

one doing the budget and talking

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with your students, you know, , Most

of the time I can give you examples

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by hundreds of stories, and I use

my son a lot, but don't tell him.

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So he was number one in his class.

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You know, and I told him you do everything

right, you get to go where you want to go.

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That's what we say.

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That's what we do.

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, Northeastern, of course,

was his number one.

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He got in, he got a great scholarship,

and I still couldn't afford it.

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I have three in college.

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His brother was already in college,

his sister was right behind him.

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And I had to break his heart.

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And he's like, I don't

understand why I work so hard.

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And that broke my heart

because he's right.

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But it wasn't possible for me to pay still

50, 000 a year, for one of my children.

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So he , ended up at his second choice,

which he fought the first semester.

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And you know, gave me heartache

still, but it ended up to be

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absolutely the best decision for him.

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He couldn't have got to where he is

now without being at that school.

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And by second year, he's like.

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I would have transferred

out of Northeastern.

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I know that.

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So, you know, I do tell a lot of

kids and parents if I dropped you at

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Ohio State and then I dropped you at

Purdue and then I put you down in,

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you know, University of Tampa, are you

really going to know where you are?

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I mean, You know, obviously there's some

major and weather and those things, but,

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you know, I think it's more important that

you understand what you're paying for.

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And if your students going to be

comfortable there and take advantage

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of what you're paying for, you

know, I get a lot of stories from

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parents are like true stories.

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I say, I'm going to write a book.

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You know, I can't bring my gecko.

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There's not enough trees.

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There's too many Birkenstocks.

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I saw tie dye shirts and parents were

like, are you kidding me right now?

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But it's true.

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If you don't feel comfortable and not

going to come out of your dorm and join

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those organizations and go meet your

professors, what are you paying for?

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You know, it's really important.

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We kind of realize that as excited

as they are, they're trying to

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find their next home without you.

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My son used to say all the time

to me, I can't believe you're

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just going to drop me somewhere.

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With people I don't know and have

never met and you're okay with this

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because I'm the classic helicopter

mother Yeah, well when you put it

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that way, maybe you should stay home.

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He's like no no That's great.

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So so that let's talk about

that money that you got right?

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So our students work really hard.

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Let's Let's dive into merit.

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Mm-hmm.

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, I know, that's what I say to my

families a lot is that one of the

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best ways to get money is to apply

to schools that offer merit money.

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Yes.

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And so maybe you can talk about the

difference between what is merit, what

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is scholarship, and you know, , this

idea of, okay, you go to Ivy League

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and yes, they cover your expenses,

but most of the families who are

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paying for college consultants aren't.

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necessarily the people who have,

who are going to be qualifying

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for need at a Ivy league.

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So maybe you could talk about that.

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Yeah.

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So obviously if we take the Ivies

out, cause there is no merit, you

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know, that's all need based, but other

colleges, I think people kind of don't

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realize there's some colleges kind of

merit friendly or merit generous that

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we call versus those that are not.

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So a good example I use all the

time is we take university of

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Michigan, Ohio state and Penn state.

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Pretty comparable colleges, very large,

, you know, hundreds of majors and, and,

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organizations, D one athlete, all that.

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, but two don't give any merit and one does.

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So, you know, would you apply to

all three or are you just applying

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to one that doesn't give merit

because maybe your family cheers

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for them or you have a legacy?

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So I think there's.

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, options for people who are looking

for a certain kind of school to

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kind of broaden their horizons

and add other colleges in there.

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, you know, expanding your, you know, every

pretty much every student does that for

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maybe 6 hour radius around hometown.

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And the farther you go away, the more

money you have to get those colleges

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again are trying to get, you know,

one student from every high school.

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And are you that high school this year?

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You know, you could be

looking at different majors.

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You know, a lot of female chem students

get more money than female biology majors.

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, so there's just different little

tactics when you're doing this search

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that, you know, you should look into

versus just trying to go through U.

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S.

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News world reports top 20, which, you

know, I just had a client yesterday.

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He had 3 of the U.

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S.

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News top 20 and I really didn't think

a student was going to get in there.

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And he asked me for other

financially fit schools.

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None of those are going

to give him any aid.

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And, you know, if your budget

budget's 30, and you're applying

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to 70, 000 dollar schools.

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I mean, we can cross our fingers,

but in reality, you're not

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getting a 40, 000 scholarship.

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It's just not going to happen.

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So there are different ways where you're

doing your search, you know, to understand

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financial aid and the transparency of

the schools and what is going to be

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reasonable, um, for a merit scholarship.

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And to me, the best way to do

it is just go to the website.

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Like I put in Google search, I'm like

merit money for university of Michigan.

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And then you get to see that merit

money for college of Wooster and

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you're like, wow, that's actually

where my daughter went to school.

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, and a big reason was because

of the generous, you know,

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merit money that they offer.

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As a result, um, understanding

money for majors, is there a

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place that you can dig into that?

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I haven't found that.

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Is that I haven't found one place.

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I think it really depends on the college

and having the students kind of get

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to know their admissions counselor,

which I think is a good resource.

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A lot of them maybe don't use.

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I think the other piece too is

understanding, You know, the colleges are

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a business and I think this is the hardest

part is, you know, if they're looking

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for left handed cello soccer players this

year and you're not, you know, it doesn't

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mean there aren't other schools who are

looking for that and , you know, kind

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of spreading a wider net over colleges.

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Maybe you haven't heard, you know,

there's 3, 000 colleges out there

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and, you know, I think your student

will do well at probably 10 of them

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and, get a broader range in there.

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Those that are merit friendly,

those kinds of things.

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What's your opinion about, scholarships?

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Like I, and I say that separate

from merit money, talk to me about

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your opinion on scholarships.

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Yes.

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I actually have , a meeting tonight

to speak with a parent who put in

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The chat information for my services.

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It says I need to learn

about scholarships.

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I can't pay for school.

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I'm like, Oh, we have an eye

opening conversation tonight.

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Yeah.

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So scholarships outside scholarships.

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There's a couple things I usually say.

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You know, if you're a junior and you have

time and want to start looking and make

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an Excel spreadsheet, you know, go ahead.

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But senior year, really, you should

be focusing on getting, all your

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applications top notch, your essay, , you

know, your FAFSA, CSA, and all of that in.

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And then when you have time, start

doing those outside scholarships.

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Obviously, be careful of the sites.

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Make sure you feel they're legit.

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You're putting a lot of

personal information in there.

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And there's a couple sites

that you can pay for, I think,

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are relatively inexpensive.

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if that's really important to you.

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But the statistic is outside

scholarships account for maybe

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three to five percent of tuition.

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And if that kind of puts you into

that next level of colleges and

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you want to do that, absolutely.

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And if you have time, absolutely.

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The problem is most of them are

one year only, . And a lot of them

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go directly to the school and can

displace some of your financial aid.

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So I fought many cases for that.

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So that can be difficult, but it should

be right at the college's website.

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You know, if that's the case.

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, and I did want to say quick,

one thing that came to mind

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about merit scholarships.

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I have seen a lot of families miss out

on, um, scholarships that are automatic

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from the college because of due dates.

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So maybe all those automatic

scholarships are early action and

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they've done regular decision.

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And now they've lost out on

10, 12, 15, 000, just from not

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reading that scholarship website.

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From their colleges.

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So, it's really sad.

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Why is there not the scholarship on here?

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Because I know the school gives them

and I took a bit of research and then I

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realized they did regular decision instead

of early action and They could have just

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applied earlier and gotten that I was

just looking at University of Miami,

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um, does a great job of transparency

around that, which I find really helpful.

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Some websites aren't as

transparent in general.

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We lean towards our students getting

early action as much as all across the

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board, just for that reason, because

it's sometimes just not as clear.

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Okay, let's talk about

FASFA, FASFA and CSS.

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CSS.

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What's different about this year?

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I already I'm looking at it's October 3rd

and I know the big date has passed it.

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So talk to us about that.

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No date has passed for anybody

who's panicking, but in the

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past, October 1st was the big day

that the fast food was released.

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Tell us why it changed and tell

us families can expect if they

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haven't ever yet opened that FAFSA.

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Yes.

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So the FAFSA will be opening

in December sometime.

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And the reason for the delay

this year is, , there was a whole

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redoing of the FAFSA formula.

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So, , the Coding in the software

would not be done in time.

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, and it's odd because just about six years

ago, I think, was it that the FAFSA didn't

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open this early and when they made it

October, we all were like, are you crazy?

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It's open that early.

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, so now we're kind of going back.

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So it's fine.

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The CSS is open.

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I called the CSS just

the FAFSA on steroids.

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You know, it's a

financially invasive form.

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I'm going to ask you pretty much, you

know, your house and the cars you drive

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and retirements and all those fun things.

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And it's a way for, you know,

higher level colleges to really

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get a full financial picture.

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on how much they should give you in aid.

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And I have seen in some instances

where actually the CSS profile was more

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financial aid friendly than the FAFSA.

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So it's not always bad.

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But again, because you're giving so

much of your financial information,

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there are some cases where it might

not make sense to complete that, but

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that's usually very high net worth.

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people.

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Because everybody else kind

of wants the free money.

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, the FAFSA this year, we're all dying

to know what it's going to look like.

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it's much, less questions.

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So from over 100 down to about 40, I

believe, , we have seen I have seen the

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calculator and used it, but it's not

exactly what the FAFSA form looks like.

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So, we are waiting to

see what that looks like.

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And if you're new to the FAFSA,

it should be fairly easy.

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You won't notice anything different.

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And you'll be like, why was everybody

complaining all these years?

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Because it's just a few questions,

, hopefully easier questions, though.

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Some of them kind of leave gray areas.

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Like business valuation and farm

valuation are now things in there.

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So we'll see how those play out, but,

you know, don't panic when it comes out.

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I would say, give it at least a week

or two, unless you have a really hot

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deadline, let all the bugs work out

with everybody else, then do your FAFSA.

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From what I'm seeing.

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with the colleges who have

updated their website.

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Most are not due until mid

January, is the earliest,

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though you can get it in earlier.

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CSS is open.

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Again, , you know, you can start it,

go through if you have questions, you

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know, reach out to me, but make sure your

applications are in and all that is set.

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There's no sense submitting a

CSS prior to an application.

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There's, they don't connect

in the cloud anywhere.

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I'm going to say that back just

to make, just to make sure.

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So fill out your application, send it, and

then obviously send the CSS after that.

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You could probably be

working on it before that.

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And mostly what I tell my families right

now is just get your documents in order.

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That's something that

you can be doing now.

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And if they're not in

order, get them in order.

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So there's no surprises or delays because

that's another way that I saw money.

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Missed families who I didn't say

things like, make sure that your

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financial things are in order.

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And then they're like, Oh my

gosh, I'm two months behind.

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And then they missed out on money.

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So people who don't have their

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once you submit the CSS, you need.

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Your students should get emails back,

but you know, most colleges are going to

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request additional information through

IDOC, um, IDOC, if you haven't heard

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of that, but you will, your student

will be getting emails and saying, you

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know, we need this text transcript.

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We need the copy of the tax return.

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We need, you know, this information.

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So you want to make sure that

you are submitting it enough and

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you don't miss those deadlines.

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because you have to add

supplemental information.

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Can you answer this question?

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I'm getting a lot of this right now.

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You know, with the divorce rates in our

country, that there are often, there's

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often a lot of stress and tension

around who's going to fill it out.

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And I know that that changed.

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Who should fill it out?

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And I'm just curious if you

can bring that to life for us.

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So, what is the criteria for who fills

it out and what money is considered?

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So right now, , for anyone filling

out the FAFSA, , new or again, it's

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going to be the parent who, offers the

most financial support to the student.

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So this is one of those kind of gray

areas that we're all waiting to see

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how , the FSA deals with because In most

people's mind, you would assume it's

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going to be the person they live with.

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So it's hard to believe that the parent

that is driving the kids to school

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with a car and gas and living under the

roof with heat and electric and feeding

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them, , you know, adding all that up.

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Is going to be a lot less than

someone who's just, you know,

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sending a check, , each month.

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So we're not entirely sure

how that's going to play out.

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But for right now, you know, unless

child support is extremely high,

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it would be most likely person

that the student is living with.

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, seems to make kind of common

sense who would be offering

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the most financial support.

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Okay, great.

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It does seem like, you know, there's

going to be some gray areas around that

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and we'll have to manage it when we get

to see exactly when we see exactly what

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the question looks like and how what

the answers available are, we will be

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able to answer that a little better.

436

, I feel like we could talk to you for

an hour and I honor my, I honor my

437

30 minutes, but now I wish I didn't.

438

I wish I could have like a

two hour podcast with you,

439

but maybe we can do it again.

440

But let's talk about tuition bill review,

because that is what you're kind of,

441

you're always out there talking about.

442

And I'd love to hear more about that.

443

Sure.

444

So again, kind of when, after that

May 1st and parents went away and then

445

they'd start calling and, you know, say

asking questions like, why is this on

446

my tuition bill or what does this mean?

447

And, um, again, my kids

were going to college.

448

I had to figure this all out.

449

So I think it's a really great thing,

especially for first time, sending your

450

kid off to school, just to understand

what for four years is very expensive

451

service you're buying, you know, and

understanding what you're paying for.

452

So from optional costs.

453

to fees.

454

We have a school in New York that has over

20 different fees, some of them optional.

455

And I can tell you, if you haven't

talked to me, you've probably paid

456

that optional fee for four years.

457

, you know, going over the FERPA, health

waivers, entrance counseling, you

458

know, everything kind of that you need

to know to set yourself up with all

459

these terms and different ways to work

through the portal with your student.

460

You know, I always say one year, I

think it was my son's sophomore year.

461

I had to call a college cause

my spreadsheet was 5 off from

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their tuition bill and I did not

hang up till we resolved that 5.

463

That's amazing.

464

I'm not giving you a dime more than you.

465

That is, that's amazing.

466

So that.

467

That seems right.

468

You know, that brings me to another.

469

I was actually on a call with Lee

Moore last week and she does all

470

the data and she was showing me

on her data sets about money like

471

merit and kind of I'm not exactly

sure because I was it was new to me.

472

But this idea that you could be get

you could get money your first year.

473

And then if you look at data of

like how that merit money can

474

go down over those Four years.

475

And that actually surprised

me 'cause that did not happen

476

to me at Worcester or Chapman.

477

And that's where my two kids went.

478

Mm-hmm.

479

, my other went to CU Boulder, so we

didn't have to manage the merit there.

480

Yeah, yeah.

481

But , tell me about that and

what should families look for?

482

Yeah, that's, you know, one of the things

doing the tuition bill review too that

483

I always check is because, there are

colleges that front load either two things

484

front load the freshman merit scholarship,

you know, is that enticement to pick

485

us or it's only a one year scholarship

and doesn't go on for the four years.

486

So again, that's something

we need to check.

487

And, you know, what is

the GPA attached to that?

488

And, you know, making the student

aware it's not to make them nervous

489

or stress, you know, If it's a GPA

and they're failing one class and

490

you're going to lose 12, 000, should

we consider dropping the class?

491

You know, we, there's things to think

about and just to keep in your mind.

492

So yeah, those merit scholarships

definitely need to, in writing.

493

, what are they for?

494

How long do they last when kids

are doing the, plus program?

495

So they're doing the P.

496

A.

497

P.

498

T.

499

all those, you know, it changes those

scholarships change when you change

500

from undergrad to grad student.

501

So, there's a lot of things to

think about as you're paying

502

for college over these 4 years.

503

Can you just in our last few minutes?

504

Can you summarize what

financial fit means?

505

So, you know, I believe probably most

people are kind of aware of the target

506

reach and safety schools and those

are based on the students criteria.

507

But those also really should

play into how the parents going

508

to pay for scholarly college.

509

So, you know, usually in state

colleges are kind of your safety

510

schools that you can afford.

511

We all know what the tuition is.

512

Tuitions and state

schools is under 10, 000.

513

It's kind of room of board

that pushes you over there.

514

And then, you know, the reach

schools again, depending on your

515

financial aid and what your adjusted

gross income is, you know, can

516

you apply to 60, 70, 000 schools?

517

So I think it's really important.

518

And what I do is look, you

know, look at a list that you've

519

generated for your students.

520

Go through the student aid index

with the parents and kind of give

521

them an idea like the family.

522

I just worked at they had for us news

top 10 and you're not getting any money

523

from Boston College does not give money.

524

Um, you know, so are you prepared

to pay that 70, 000 tuition bill?

525

And if not, then let's find some

colleges that we know are a little

526

more generous, generous for you.

527

And.

528

Yeah, then it kind of comes down to

that conversation with the parents.

529

Here's what we're willing to pay.

530

Here's where the financial

aid packages came in.

531

, what is your opinion about all

the data coming out lately on

532

return ROI, return on investment?

533

Do you have any opinions about that?

534

Very important.

535

I think a lot, you know, I.

536

If kids are going to grad

school, go to your state school.

537

Absolutely.

538

You know, my son , his sites were on med

school, he wanted to go to Northeastern

539

and , he was accepted to our local

school in New York, Binghamton, which

540

is a highly ranked, , state university.

541

And he's like, I cannot go to Binghamton

because I can't go to med school.

542

Is Columbia or NYU going to take me from.

543

SUNY Binghamton.

544

So I had to call multiple colleges

and med schools and ask them.

545

And overwhelmingly, yes, it's not

dependent on the name of the school.

546

Now, if everything being equal,

someone's coming out of Harvard

547

and he's coming out of Binghamton

and everything else is equal.

548

You know, maybe they'd probably take the

Harvard kid, but you know, there's so

549

many other things that are important.

550

So if you're going to grad school,

you really, you know, if, if finances

551

are an issue, you really got to

consider, you know, nobody, they

552

always say the doctors don't have

their undergrad hanging on their wall.

553

So, um, you know, and PA, PT, all those

programs, pharmacy, really popular.

554

Now, again, your six year programs

with grad school, you know,

555

understand who's paying for what,

um, you know, there's a point where

556

the student starts paying in the.

557

The parents don't, and they

always say, don't take on more

558

debt than your first year salary.

559

So if you're coming out as an

accounting, a nurse, an engineer making

560

60, 000, then that should be the max

you borrow over those four years.

561

Wow, that's great.

562

That's a great tip.

563

That's really great.

564

Well, I cannot thank you enough.

565

I know this is the beginning.

566

I'm hoping we can actually just schedule

something in literally in December.

567

I would love to do that so that we

can answer some of these pending

568

questions that we see come out.

569

Thank you for your service and

thank you for your innovation around

570

creating a business that really

serves both consultants and families.

571

Thank you, Laura, for sharing them.

572

And thank you for helping

us make great humans.

573

I, it's my favorite thing in the world.

574

Thank you so much.

575

Take care.

576

Bye.