"Why chasing work life balance is a bad idea and what you can do instead". Claire and I discuss this tricky topic and aim to provide ways for you to find more harmony.

- Defining work-life balance is hard. It can mean making time for work and non-work activities you enjoy in a way that works for you. It's an individual thing.

- We have cognitive biases like status quo bias where we continue doing things as we have done. Becoming aware of this is the first step to changing unhelpful patterns.

- "Balance" suggests 50/50 which may not be realistic or even desirable for some. Think beyond hours to where your attention and energy goes. Integrate life as a whole.

- Over-identifying with a work identity can harm work-life wellbeing and balance. Bring more awareness to your whole self.

- Environment design is powerful. What visual cues trigger certain habits around work and personal life? Set up spaces thoughtfully.

- Manage your attention actively. Multitasking often backfires for presence, focus and productivity. Practice being fully present.

- Reflect on what really matters through questions. What life choices serve my values? Make decisions deliberately.

- Start from within yourself - care for your physiology, emotions and mind. This builds a base for choices.

- There's no quick fix, but small consistent lifestyle choices compound over months and years.

- Choose one thing you'll do differently after listening to start applying this to your life. Then build from there.

Contact Claire here

Get in touch with Sal

If this episode has caught your attention and you wish to learn more, then please contact me. I offer a free 20 min call where we can discuss a challenge your facing and how I may be able to help you.

Welcome to Mindset, Mood and Movement, a systemic approach to human

2

behavior, performance, and well being.

3

Our psychological, emotional, and

physical health are all connected,

4

and my guests and I endeavor to share

knowledge, strategies, and tools for

5

you to enrich your life and work.

6

Today we are considering why

chasing work life balance is a bad

7

idea and what you can do instead.

8

I'm joined by Claire Elms, my guest, and

she is the owner of Inspire You Wellbeing.

9

That's a global award winning therapy

training and coaching world business.

10

Today, we are considering why

chasing work life balance is a bad

11

idea and what you can do instead.

12

I'm joined by my guest, Claire

Elms, and Claire is the founder

13

of Inspire You Wellbeing.

14

It's a global award winning therapy,

training and coaching wellness business.

15

And Claire's a really

great guest to have on.

16

She works with stress, performance,

lifestyle, executive coaching, the whole

17

host of things that are really going

to be important to work life balance.

18

And Claire knows full well just how

important this is, having experience.

19

Burnout in 2015.

20

So she's on a campaign to help people

now, as I too am on a campaign to help

21

people understand things through this

podcast about how we can integrate

22

our mind, our emotions and our body

to make changes on a practical level.

23

Now, when considering work life balance in

this episode, we go into some key things.

24

What do we mean by work life balance

and help you understand that?

25

What are some of the factors that

are going to get in your way?

26

Some of the cognitive biases, some

of the personality styles, some of

27

the behaviors that may be going on

for you, which you just hadn't seen.

28

And we're going to pull those out

and hopefully help you understand

29

it in a much clearer context.

30

how to use attention, what's happening

with your environment, things such as

31

your smartphone, all of these things

that contribute to whether work life

32

balance is going for you or against you.

33

And we kind of pull it all together with

some really salient strong points of

34

actions you can take to start finding

your own way into work life balance.

35

So welcome, Claire.

36

Hi.

37

Claire Elms: thanks for having me.

38

Sal Jefferies: I'd love to start with

what does work life balance mean to you?

39

Claire Elms: I think it's one

of those concepts, isn't it?

40

That's really hard to talk

about and really hard to define.

41

But for me, work life balance

is about making sure I have time

42

to do my work, but time to do.

43

The things that I enjoy in life as well.

44

So spending time with family and

friends, doing things for myself

45

and as well as integrating work

within that and how it works for me.

46

So for me, work isn't a nine to five.

47

so it's how I make my working

day work for me in a way that

48

gives me time to have life as

49

Sal Jefferies: Really nice.

50

Yeah.

51

I guess maybe I should bounce

the question back to myself.

52

Work life balance.

53

Yeah.

54

What work life balance?

55

Claire Elms: Yeah, absolutely.

56

Sal Jefferies: I see it

slightly differently.

57

I don't actually see it as work life

balance with a distinction as such.

58

I see it all as life.

59

So if I, I, I see things in a slightly

different perspective, it's just how

60

I see the world, but I see things

as life, this totality of life that

61

I have the gift of being given.

62

And within that, some of my

energy and my time goes to.

63

and there's different nuances of

my work as well from podcasting to

64

coaching to, the running the business

and they're, they have different

65

qualities, but there's that aspect.

66

And then there's other

elements in my life.

67

As you've alluded to, this personal.

68

For me it's fitness is health,

activities, all these kinds of things.

69

And I find it more as a whole system

that I try to get the right measure of.

70

But of course, this is what we

want to share today is about.

71

Understanding this, I think from

not just my perspective and Pat's

72

Claire's perspective, but really help

you find what your perspective is.

73

So we, we're clear on it.

74

I have clients in my coaching practice and

they come to me and they're super busy.

75

They, they're either directors or run a

business or freelance, and they work hard.

76

They put a lot of hours in there,

they're, they're grafting and that's fine.

77

That's okay.

78

If that's your thing.

79

But if there's no time and energy left

for health, for fitness, for family,

80

then it, of course, can skew into the

other side of, of course, unbalance

81

or being pushed into overworking,

and too much attention there.

82

When and where did you start

working in your domain, Claire,

83

with Work Life Balance with

the clients that you work with?

84

Perhaps you can share a

little more about that story.

85

So we understand your, your,

your, your journey in this.

86

Claire Elms: Yeah, sure.

87

So I've come from, a

therapeutic background.

88

So I started.

89

Practicing with clients as a

90

like a long time ago now.

91

but, yeah, and I was working in the NHS

and I was working, in the county council,

92

doing stuff with the council with children

and families predominantly at the time.

93

and then I was looking for how to

get what I wanted because I couldn't

94

see a job that suited what I wanted.

95

So I ended up.

96

setting up self employed, a friend,

a life coach, actually, she, she

97

was quite inspirational to me.

98

She said, if you can't find the

job you want, why not create it?

99

And it was enough to plant a seed for me.

100

So I started going, okay, let's do that.

101

And so I added, started the

102

slowly, slowly added days and.

103

Reduced time in, employment and I think

for me, a lot of clients come to me

104

around feeling stressed, overworked,

burnt out, and, I've seen the back end,

105

I guess I've seen like where people

get to when they get to the point of

106

no return, if you like, I've also, hit

107

working 60 hours a week, I thought it

was invincible, and then I really wasn't,

108

and, had I not got married and had three

weeks off on honeymoon, I would have,

109

definitely been in a very dark place,

but, as it was, I had enough time to

110

step back and reflect, and go, actually,

I don't want to do this anymore, and

111

I think it's really interesting, I

see so many similar patterns, and so

112

subsequently, since 2015, I've been

much more, focusing on the preventative

113

rather than working with severe and

enduring, which was what I was doing.

114

So I was working with really quiet and

stuff in, in the NHS and, yeah, and so

115

pivoted more into coaching at that point

and started focusing more on how to stop

116

people getting to that point in the first

place and using my experience as a bit

117

of a, as, as a guide really, because

I would never have gone to get help.

118

I didn't see I had a problem.

119

Like I just didn't recognize

that that was a thing.

120

and I think since COVID, there's been a

massive shift for people, I think people

121

have started to really recognize, that

actually they don't want to do certain

122

things the way that they've been doing

them, and I think we we all carry on

123

doing what we're doing because that's

what we've always done, and actually,

124

at some point, we can't carry on, so I

think it's really important to, focus on

125

this kind of elusive work life balance.

126

thing because it's a concept and

it's made up and it doesn't and

127

it's different for everybody.

128

but actually it's a thing and if we get

it working in a, in a way that works for

129

us personally and, and how my work life

balance will, it will be different to how

130

your work life balance looks, which will

be different to how someone else's looks.

131

And, like the word balance is,

is always, like we've both talked

132

about integration, haven't we?

133

And whether There is a balance at all

or whether you feel like you have to

134

balance something because when you're

balancing you feel like you're juggling

135

something and then it feels like it's

always going to be out of kilter.

136

So it's quite interesting.

137

the more I delve into working with

people on a preventative level

138

and we start to look at like your

week looks like and where your

139

energy is placed and how you focus.

140

it's just a really interesting way

of working now and I really enjoy

141

helping people to, make it work

142

Sal Jefferies: Nice, really nice.

143

I just want to speak to a couple

of things that you said that

144

really caught my attention.

145

The first one is, is we, we do what we do.

146

We just carry on as we are.

147

And this is such a, such

a slippery customer.

148

you probably know, but, if, if,

if we're listening and you're

149

not sure, we all have cognitive

biases, which are thinking biases.

150

We think in certain ways and

we're predisposed to certain ones.

151

A really big one is status quo bias.

152

Now it's, yeah, it's status quo and

I don't mean the, the rock group.

153

If anyone remembers them.

154

. But status quo as in staying the same.

155

Now we are, our mind

is a bit like our body.

156

It's seeking homeostasis.

157

We like to remain the same.

158

And there's, there's lots of

science around this about how

159

the brain works and so forth.

160

From a practical point of view,

knowing that we have status quo bias

161

is that we will always lean into

what we know and what we've done.

162

The problem with that can be if what

we've been doing and what we've always

163

done is overworking, under prioritizing

family or under prioritizing fitness

164

and health, then it will continue.

165

And it's not because anyone's

doing anything wrong, it's probably

166

because we're simply not conscious

of these patterns playing.

167

And the first thing around status quo

bias is, is to simply name it and see it.

168

But see if you're like, okay, I've

always, I don't know, work a 12 hour

169

day, don't bother eating properly,

don't work out, then It's naming that

170

and okay, how is this going to work

in looking around you for some other

171

people and getting examples of that.

172

So knowing that we are predisposed

to it is the first point of changing

173

it and that that really intrigues me.

174

Now, you also mentioned about balance

and I'm always fascinated with

175

linguistics and balance to me would

seem 50 50 or 50 50 be perfect, right?

176

And.

177

I don't know if we, if we got this

idea in our mind about, we have to have

178

balance, then implicit in that, if your

work week is 60 hours and your home life

179

is less, you're already out of balance,

just from an hour's point of view, you're

180

already out of balance, so you're already

losing, which is a negative, and I, I

181

struggle with the word balance, if it's

misunderstood, certainly in my mind,

182

and for people I work with, we actually

probably need to understand it better.

183

And it's not an either or situation.

184

I like, I'm only working.

185

I'm only at home because sometimes

when you go to work, you're,

186

you'll bring your nervous system.

187

You'll bring your backstory.

188

You'll bring your biases, who you are.

189

You can't not, right?

190

And same as when you go home, you

might, certainly for those of us who

191

run businesses, do our own thing, We

often have insights whilst walking

192

the dog, in the shower, and it's not

wrong, but it's understanding this

193

and starting to see it for what it is.

194

And the last thing I really want to speak

to you about what you said, and we want

195

to, I'd like to go deeper, is energy.

196

Now, I work with energy a lot, from a

quantum physics description to a body

197

energy description, whatever term it

is, but this is, our entire body has an

198

electron, every cell has an electrical

signal and the nervous system runs

199

electrics, we all have energy, and I

think it's something more interesting to

200

talk to, and I want to get your thoughts

on this, Graham, that would be awesome.

201

Instead of balance, like

where is your energy?

202

how much energy does work take?

203

Because some people's work doesn't

take a lot because it's flow state.

204

Some people's home life can be

challenging and that can take a lot more.

205

Perhaps if you've got young children

or something like that, it's demanding.

206

Claire, how are you working

with, with this energy, perhaps

207

principle around the clients you're

working with, with work life?

208

Claire Elms: I think similar to you.

209

I think it's really interesting.

210

I was talking to someone the

other day actually in, in the

211

NHS, it's very segregated.

212

So you have your mental health teams,

physical health teams, you have your

213

different teams for different conditions.

214

And so if you have a

condition that needs support.

215

You'll go to so and so for this, and

so and so for that, and this team for

216

that, and this team for that, and it's,

it's very segregated, and what I have

217

loved about fully leaning into my own

business is that I bring the energy, I

218

bring the physical and the mental and

everything else together, because for

219

me, you cannot operate on one without the

other, you need to have an understanding

220

of Tiredness levels, you need to have an

understanding of where your focus goes.

221

there's that whole, my, one of my

favorite sayings is like, focus,

222

focus goes where energy flows.

223

So if your focus is in the right

place, then your energy goes in the

224

right place and it becomes like a

flow state and it becomes, there's all

225

the science behind it, isn't there?

226

And, and it's, it's really

interesting and I think.

227

When the more I kind of work with physical

practitioners and the more I work, doing

228

more integrated practice myself, I've,

I trained as a breathwork facilitator

229

last year and that for me really, really

opened my eyes to, breathing in a basic

230

term, understanding that when we're

not breathing properly, that actually

231

impacts on absolutely everything, like

our mental and our physical state.

232

And.

233

the more I'm working with different

practitioners, I'm really leaning

234

into, understanding my own body.

235

I have hypermobility, and so my

body doesn't do what it should do.

236

so really understanding, I've

just accepted that for years.

237

And then I've worked, I found

a practitioner who's gone from,

238

yeah, you can change that.

239

And I'm like, oh, I've just

accepted that for so long.

240

So it's really interesting.

241

the more you lean into different

things and become aware of things

242

yourself, Just the kind of energy

really interests me, and, and it can

243

be seen as a bit woo woo, I think,

and, and I never quite fully understood

244

it when I worked in organisations.

245

It's only been probably the last five

years I've really leaned into it.

246

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, I agree.

247

I know some people still struggle with

the term energy, perhaps don't understand

248

it, but let's just clear this up now.

249

It's neuroscience, right?

250

We got data on this all over the place.

251

This is neuroscience.

252

This is neuropsychobiology.

253

This is the electrome understanding

about how the body works.

254

This is quantum mechanics.

255

Yeah, there's all sorts of

heavyweight sciences, which

256

now we understand this stuff.

257

And to put it simply, metabolism

is energy exchange, right?

258

So if you eat a bowl of porridge and

some nuts in the morning, That is trans,

259

transduced into energy in your body.

260

It's broken down to different things.

261

And if you didn't eat any food

at all, you'd be knackered.

262

You'd be tired.

263

Now, so we know this.

264

So we want to just disband with any

of this idea that energy is woo woo.

265

It, this, this, this is exactly

where we need to work out.

266

The problem I have, and, I'm a big fan

of Oliver Berkman, 4, 000 Weeks, if I

267

should put a link in the show, brilliant.

268

And cause he's a time management guy

and he's written some amazing book and.

269

Where we think about time, we might

look at our working day and go, I've

270

got eight hours, and we go, I go home,

we've got four hours with family, or

271

I've got, for me, it's like hours in the

gym or something like that, but hours

272

don't translate very well to energy,

because if, for instance, so my work

273

is, is, I'm not interested in hours,

I'm interested in energy time, and I,

274

there's a time boundary, of course,

I know The the shape of it, but how

275

much energy do I need for a podcast?

276

How much energy do I need to

do coaching work to really

277

help people get what they want?

278

That's less about the amount

of hours I need to do.

279

It's more about the amount of

energy I need to bring to him.

280

And the same with home life.

281

if you go home and you are at home, quote.

282

but your mind is still at your desk or

your mind is still with your client.

283

You're not there, right?

284

So your balance is not there.

285

I wanted to again, just to speak

to something you said there, for my

286

regular listeners, people know that

my approach of mindset, mood, and

287

movement, this ecosystem approach of.

288

Wellbeing and personal

development is, is how I work.

289

And you can't not be yourself.

290

Even if you're in a professional role.

291

You have your body, the

architecture, you have your nervous

292

system, your digestive system.

293

It is all there.

294

And if your breath patterns are all

over the place, as you've alluded to, if

295

your emotions are dysregulated, 'cause

that's connected to breath and sometimes

296

to trauma, then it's very, very hard to

achieve one's elusive work-life balance.

297

If our physical.

298

and our emotional system is out

of balance or out of cohesion.

299

So that's a really important thing.

300

And I want to go a little more

focused onto this as the individual.

301

When we're thinking about energy

as an individual and we're looking

302

to, to, to get balance, how are

you helping some of the people you

303

work with actually achieve that?

304

What, what are those practical steps that

you're finding are now working to, to

305

get a better, a better way, let's say.

306

Claire Elms: there's, there's some

amazing things out there, isn't there?

307

And it's really hard to answer that

question because obviously it's different

308

for the, for the individual, right?

309

But, One of the things I love doing with

people is bringing that self awareness

310

piece in, so Understanding yourself

and how you operate is so pivotal.

311

Like how you make decisions.

312

You talked about the

status quo bias, right?

313

How you, how you think.

314

Everything starts with the thought.

315

I educate people on the thought,

feeling, behavior loop and how, when

316

we have, like quite often people

come to me because they're stressed

317

or they're anxious or whatever.

318

There's a, there's a, there's a thing.

319

They're not sleeping.

320

There's, they're feeling a bit, Slap

or whatever it is, we can then work

321

out, okay, where's that coming from?

322

And this, this is in business

and in personal, right?

323

Because you can't separate the two.

324

So if you are a business owner

and you're working ridiculous

325

hours, you're making decisions

every day based on your thoughts.

326

So if your thoughts are skewed in

whatever capacity, then you're not

327

able to make those good decisions.

328

I talk a lot around that loop initially,

and also around, understanding your

329

energy levels and how your body

works and, and that side of things.

330

But you've also got like your

personality, like your sort of the

331

way that your personality works

and how, like my personality is

332

generally quite a fast paced person.

333

So for me to step back and be slower,

that takes effort, that takes energy.

334

whereas for someone that you sound

like you're much more of a slower

335

person, so you don't need me to like,

I, I find sometimes I have to, adapt

336

my energy levels to certain people.

337

Like I, I know I'm a fast paced

person if I'm talking with

338

someone that's not a fast paced.

339

If I'm talking with someone that's

a fast paced person, we'll go

340

off on all sorts of tangents and

have a brilliant conversation.

341

If I'm talking with a slower paced person,

I have to really think and pull myself in.

342

And notice the pathways that are

coming up in my head and going,

343

Oh, do I want to do that pathway?

344

Do I want to do that pathway?

345

And be much more reflective.

346

And that's something that

I've been working on a lot

347

more recently because I know.

348

the feedback from, from various

things is like, just slow down a bit.

349

And I'm like, I know,

I know I can't help it.

350

I get, I get excited and I get

like passionate about things.

351

And so I go off on tangents.

352

I'm already doing that now.

353

but for me, one of the things I really

doing is, is really picking that

354

personal part almost, you're going, Okay.

355

So this is, this is you as

a person, as a personality.

356

But that doesn't shape who you are fully,

so then you've got your values that

357

you bring, so what's important to you,

so for me, health, health is one of my

358

main values, so being healthy, I would

prioritise going and doing something

359

for myself over other things, because

for me that's really important, if I'm,

360

if I'm going and doing work before I

even start working, I will make sure

361

I have time to, go to the gym, or go

and do, I don't do the gym much anymore

362

to be fair, it's like more of fittest

bootcamps and runs and stuff like that

363

but, or do yoga or something like that.

364

I find that I need to do something.

365

Like, when I look up my energy I need

to do something before I start work.

366

I drop the kids off,

it's all a bit hectic.

367

My kids are young, they're full on.

368

mornings can be quite

stressful and hectic.

369

I need time in between that and

starting work to fully get into work

370

and into my flow state and if I'm not...

371

If I, if I bounce straight to

a nine o'clock meeting, I'm not

372

fully present because I haven't

had the time to decompress.

373

And, we talk about mental loads a lot.

374

I work a lot with busy mums.

375

Busy mums that have about 20 different

things they're doing at the same time.

376

and it's really interesting, isn't it?

377

The culture side of things.

378

Like when we...

379

yeah, 20 years ago, moms didn't

necessarily go to work as such.

380

It was much more like moms

did the household stuff.

381

And then the, the, the dad went

to work and the money, blah,

382

blah, blah, very stereotypical.

383

but now as women, we're like, yes,

we're going to go and do those things.

384

Brilliant.

385

gives us passion, purpose, excitement,

all of that really positive stuff.

386

But then also you're still having to do

a lot of the mental load at home as well.

387

And then you're also having to do like

life admin and Quite often people then

388

don't look after themselves and I think,

the thing that we were talking about

389

before was in itself was about a kind

of importance of well being and looking

390

after ourselves, being aware of ourselves

and where we're at and where we want

391

to spend more of our time focusing, and

then, and then leaning into that and,

392

and creating clear actions on how we're

going to get there, because if we know

393

that maybe we're not eating right because

we're grabbing food on the go or we're

394

not sleeping enough because we're going

to bed at midnight and, Waking up at three

395

o'clock in the morning, working and stuff.

396

There's, there's things

that we can do to change it.

397

We don't have to just

settle for the status quo.

398

And I think that's really important.

399

because quite often we just

do what we've always done.

400

so it's just, and it's, and

it's our bodies and our minds

401

way of, of functioning, right?

402

We don't think about getting

dressed in the morning.

403

We probably put the same

clothes on in the same order

404

because it's our brain's way of.

405

Not thinking as much and, and doing

things on autopilot and we have

406

certain things that we do on autopilot,

but we can change those things.

407

Those habits are not the

way that it has to be.

408

And I think that's, that's to

me is like how to help people

409

really don't lean into themselves.

410

and ultimately that improves

performance, productivity.

411

It improves absolutely everything,

412

Sal Jefferies: Totally agree.

413

Totally agree.

414

And it's something I see with the people I

coach and work with in various capacities.

415

the one of the first questions if

I'm working with someone who wants

416

to overcome an anxiety pattern, a

block, most people don't come to

417

coach him because it's all going well.

418

This is normally something that's

either got blocked or stuck or they

419

can't figure out a transition or

there's some deep self work to do.

420

And one of the first questions

I need to know is like, how

421

is this person physically?

422

Because if you are not sleeping, That

fundamentally changes everything from

423

your biochemistry to your psychology.

424

If someone is not getting outdoors

quite early in the morning, I know

425

that the light's not coming in that

person's retina, switching on their,

426

their, which is the only part of the

brain that's external in the eye.

427

that doesn't switch on then the

cortisol pulse, which everything is

428

about circadian rhythms in our body.

429

Circadian rhythms, if they are out

of whack, Everything's out of whack.

430

One of the simplest fixes is to be

outdoors within ideally 30 minutes,

431

but an hour as soon as you wake up.

432

Light in your eyes, not looking at

the sun, but light in your eyes.

433

So we've got the most basic, wrong

word, fundamental human requirements.

434

We've got sleep, we have awake, we

have the circadian rhythms running,

435

all the biochemistry is running.

436

And now we can go do a good day.

437

For me.

438

My day is always blocked out, right?

439

No one's available.

440

I'm not available to a certain time.

441

Like my first thing in

the morning is exercise.

442

I run, I swim, I gym, I

train, I do loads of stuff.

443

And for wholerseries, firstly,

I prefer it in the morning.

444

I can't, I can't do it after work.

445

It just doesn't work.

446

But also it's about, it works for me.

447

So it's about someone else.

448

It might look like that.

449

That pattern is afterward.

450

That's okay.

451

But if you get the

fundamentals in place, sleep.

452

Nutrition, Daylight, and the

right amount of good, decent food.

453

Then you're already building the

base, which, which intrigues me.

454

Now you've mentioned something

here and that really caught my

455

attention about personality.

456

Now, I know, I was working with someone

a little while back and he was, super

457

successful, very, very busy, and he was

so identified with his role at work.

458

And it was it was everything

that's so consuming as it

459

can be as a business owner.

460

This over identification was part

of the problem because, if you're on

461

the hedonic treadmill, that's this

idea that we're, we'll be happy when.

462

And if you're north of, I don't

know, 35 and you still think, I'll be

463

happy when something's not working.

464

It's just not working because if

you can't be happy now, you're

465

not gonna be happy in 10 years.

466

A few more quid in the bank

is not going to change it.

467

So this is really just about what

you said about personality and I

468

call it identity, similar stuff.

469

Over identification,

470

absolutely, over identification with,

with, let's say your business identity.

471

IC is part of the problem because

then it becomes there's no space for,

472

Claire or Sal to be the person, a

partner or friend or whatever that is.

473

that's one of the kind of red flags

I'm going to call out to people.

474

if you're over identified with work, and

you're chasing work life balance, this

475

is part of where we need to do some work.

476

This over identification,

because there's too much there.

477

What are you seeing when you're

working with people and you touch

478

on what I call identity, you call it

personality, how have you seen changes?

479

Have you got any examples of

something that you've worked with?

480

Claire Elms: Yeah.

481

So I think for me, like I see

identity, as a full, as your, as

482

your whole self almost, right?

483

And then the personality, past

experiences, I work a lot with trauma.

484

and when I say trauma, I'm not

talking about abuse and big things.

485

I'm talking about, your mum's

saying no when you're seven.

486

there there's, there's quite varying

levels, like big teacher traumas

487

and that teach traumas, right?

488

And they all have a massive impact.

489

and positive experiences as well.

490

I put a post out on LinkedIn this

week about, as 16 years ago I did a

491

free fall to do accelerated skydive.

492

And for me, that is one of

the best achievements that

493

I've ever had in my life.

494

I think it's, it's an

absolutely fantastic thing.

495

And if anyone's thinking about

it, they should definitely do it.

496

it's, it's, it relates so

much to the work that we do.

497

you pressure yourself out of

your comfort zone, comfort zone.

498

We talk about a lot, right?

499

but you you strive in for that process

that, that I have an adrenaline buzz.

500

I need, I need.

501

It's a challenge.

502

I need something to do, to, to fulfill.

503

And I really resonate

with, Johnny Wilkinson.

504

I don't know who knows Johnny Wilkinson.

505

He's a professional rugby player.

506

Showing my age, certain

people under a certain age.

507

It's quite funny.

508

I was talking in my team about him and

they didn't know who he was because

509

they are of a certain generation.

510

So I then started to feel quite old.

511

But, Johnny Wilkinson,

has openly come out.

512

And so has Tom Daley, quite a

few professional sports people.

513

It happens a lot in their world.

514

that kind of constant need to strive for

the, I'll be happy when I'll be happy

515

when, and then he was talking about when

they won the world cup, like what next?

516

that was what they were striving for.

517

And rather than feeling

happy and content and.

518

celebrating that, he just felt really

flat and, and, and unclear and he went

519

into a bit of an identity crisis and I

think, I, I see that happen and play out

520

in so many clients that I work with where

they're striving for something, striving

521

for something, striving for something.

522

Either it's unrealistic and

they're never going to get there.

523

or they get to it and then

they're like, what now?

524

And I think that's really, it really

resonates with me and that kind of really

525

being present in the moment, we, we

do lots of stuff around goal setting.

526

We do lots of stuff around looking

at the past and the barriers and

527

how to overcome the barriers.

528

But for me, like feeling pretty

content and happy in the is quite hard.

529

To get it, because, because of culture

and society and this constant need

530

to stride for something and, it's

about recognizing how far you've

531

come and I think that's, that's a lot

of the stuff I do around identity.

532

It's like how the personality,

the values, the experiences all

533

make up that person and then how.

534

That sort of helps you to make

decisions in your life and like how

535

it, how it frames your thoughts.

536

And I think when we start to look at the

sort of emotional intelligence, in a,

537

in an overall arching kind of concept,

like trying to work out what is important

538

to us from an emotional intelligence

perspective and how we can strive to

539

improve that really helps people improve.

540

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, it's

really really nice to hear.

541

Funny isn't it that we we don't see it.

542

There's there's There's, there's

the old, what do they call it?

543

A parable.

544

I'm not really good at doing this very

well, so I'll make up my own version.

545

But there's two fish, there are

two fish swimming along one day.

546

And this older fish swings,

swings by and goes, Morning guys!

547

The water's nice today.

548

And off he goes.

549

And the two young fish look at

each other and go, What's water?

550

Because of course,

551

they're so immersed in

water, they can't see it.

552

They have no other reference

point and culture really pushes

553

us for this work life balance.

554

And yet it also has a, almost a

contradictory message like just

555

drive harder, succeed more, get more

money, grow, scale, whatever it is.

556

It's push, push, push, push, push.

557

And.

558

Daring I think lies part of our work

life problem because we assume it's

559

a perhaps a future orientated thing

like if I just make enough money or my

560

business grows to a certain level then

I'll have the work life balance but

561

work life balance is actually a state

of mind on a day to day, week to week,

562

month to month basis and here's a funny

thing that we can wrap our heads around.

563

We already live in the future.

564

That's a fact.

565

We live in the future of

who you were five years ago.

566

Claire Elms: yeah

567

Sal Jefferies: it's really nice to go,

God, yeah, I remember being X, Y, Z, let's

568

say 30 or 40, whatever we are like, Oh,

when I was 45, I was going to do this.

569

And I like, yeah, you live in that future.

570

So if you were doing it back then

the, I'll be happy when whatever that

571

is, and you're not happy now because

you just need a few more money, a

572

few more pounds in the bank, or a bit

more scale in your business, then.

573

Your process of doing it needs looking

at, and then if we're striving for

574

work life balance and wondering why

we don't have it, it comes down to

575

perception and behavior connected,

which we've already said about finding

576

about people, which is, which is lovely.

577

Now, I want to call out one

of the red flags that really

578

get in the way of work life.

579

balance in a healthy way which is the

difference between how culture was

580

probably 25 years ago if you were, a

working parent, whatever you are, doing

581

your thing compared to now because

of and I'm waving a smartphone at

582

Claire and on this smartphone is my

telephone, my contacts and pictures,

583

and yet there's my email, whatsapp,

it's all the facility for me to be

584

still connected to my work identity or

my work process and I think we haven't

585

seen it but it's a little like leaving

all your home doors open and inviting

586

your colleagues just to walk in and out

all day all night and it's very hard to

587

beat because everyone has a smartphone.

588

and everyone's got all

the connections on it.

589

question being, when we come

home, whatever that is, or when

590

we're not at work, how tempting

is it to pick up Don's smartphone?

591

Very.

592

Yeah.

593

Claire Elms: This is really tough, right?

594

This is one of the biggest things I'm

talking about with individuals and teams.

595

I was doing some team coaching, not

that long ago and they disclosed

596

there was 46 WhatsApp groups for

that particular organization.

597

and I was like, wow,

598

um, and I think, WhatsApp is brilliant.

599

There was definitely a place for

smartphones is definitely, we had

600

a conversation and then someone

unsubscribed from all the groups.

601

And I was like, that's not, that's

not what I'm wanting, it's not about

602

doing that, but, there's, I, I.

603

and turned it back on and there was

150 messages and I was like, wow,

604

yeah, four different WhatsApp groups,

pinging, pinging, pinging about various

605

different things, not all work related.

606

a lot of it is mum groups.

607

Anyone with kids of a certain

age will understand the, the

608

kind of WhatsApp parent groups,

can be a bit full on as well.

609

but absolutely.

610

We talk a lot about switching off, right?

611

How do, how do we switch off?

612

Yeah.

613

Because if we don't switch, do

we have to switch on and off

614

is another conversation, right?

615

Do we have to switch on, now I'm

in work, off, now I'm off work.

616

but, you've talked about in previous

podcasts, the, the link between

617

the sympathetic nervous system and

the parasympathetic nervous system.

618

If we are on all the time,

we're not in rest and recovery.

619

We're not in that parasympathetic

nervous system at all.

620

and we've got a fantastic device

that we use for people, which

621

is brilliant, called FairSpeak.

622

and it measures high

variability oxygen levels.

623

It, it goes deep into

looking at your stress zones.

624

And I love it because it's actually

a bit of a slap in the face of look,

625

you're not as getting any recovery.

626

you drink caffeine in the

afternoon, you're not sleeping,

627

you sleep isn't good quality sleep.

628

and it shows that, if I go for an event

in the afternoon and I'm drinking coffee,

629

and for me, I've got tinnitus, so if I'm

at an event and there's lots of people,

630

my body's working really hard, I love

it, it lights me up, it gives me energy,

631

but my body's working really hard to,

to hear what people are saying, to be

632

fully present in the room and all of

those things, that when I go to bed, if

633

it's an afternoon event and I, I struggle

to go to bed, I have to do a breathwork

634

session or a yoga session or something,

because otherwise I don't get into a rest

635

and recovery until three in the morning.

636

and, and I have this awareness, right?

637

So I'm not going to not go to an afternoon

event because that's not real, right?

638

But it's, it's understanding.

639

I think for me, using some of the

technology now, it's really fantastic

640

because it allows us to look at the

impact it has, and the impact that it has.

641

You know, like I got, as a

business owner, I, I had all

642

of my phone stuff on one phone.

643

Last year, I got a new phone and

I was like, that's my work phone.

644

all the time I've been employed, I've

had a work phone and a home phone.

645

So that is now my work phone.

646

This is my home phone and it's made such

a difference because I don't check emails.

647

when I'm not working, I

don't, like I choose a time.

648

So if I, if I'm, if I want to check

emails, like I don't work on a Monday,

649

but I've had, some students working.

650

So they've been working Monday.

651

So I've had things available on

a Monday and it's been exhausting

652

because I've not had that rest day.

653

so when they finish, I've really

noticed a difference because I've

654

actually had Mondays to switch

off, which I didn't have before.

655

So just you can turn notifications

off on your phone, and that's what

656

a lot of people don't realize.

657

You can actually have

it set for a schedule.

658

So I set my emails for

8 till 7 or something.

659

And then they don't get

synced automatically.

660

They sync if you open it and scroll

it, but they don't get synced.

661

And I was trying that at the weekends

before I got a separate phone.

662

But for me, it, it was too

663

tempting.

664

It's too tempting to just squelch, right?

665

And, and I think I get

FOMO, fear of missing out.

666

So I don't want to, I don't want to miss

out on something that might be important.

667

And it's also habit.

668

I think, clicking into WhatsApp

and clicking into emails is almost

669

like an automatic thing we do now

without even thinking about it.

670

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, you're bang

on there about how habits form so

671

quickly because you pick up your phone

You think I'll tap my email, just

672

check if there's anything important.

673

Any of this, if you say I'll just,

you're on a slippery slope , it

674

could be five minutes But it's it's

about where does your attention go?

675

So a couple of things here Environment

design is really interesting and

676

I've worked with people who've

done this and we've set this up

677

in for people I've worked with.

678

But if you design your

environment in a certain way,

679

it will have a certain output.

680

For example, if you work from home and

you're trying to get this work life

681

balance, you work from home and you've

got your desk in your bedroom or your

682

desk in your kitchen, fallouts from COVID.

683

The visual stimulus around you,

it could be like your personal

684

space, will still trigger you into

connecting to personal and vice versa.

685

If you're working in the kitchen and

you still got your laptop set up when

686

you're having dinner, you are visually

still, your peripheral vision, your

687

brain saying your laptop's there.

688

Maybe I need to just write

that note or just send my

689

client a thingy and off we go.

690

So what is in our visual

field, our environment is.

691

In some ways, very easy to design, we

can change our room, you, as you said,

692

you could buy a second phone, you could

work from a separate place, I use,

693

I use co working spaces sometimes.

694

Environment design is one of the

easiest ways to leverage habit,

695

because if we are, quote, trying

not to check our emails, that takes

696

effort and energy, that's draining.

697

creating habits around environment,

where is the phone or is no

698

phone, or, for instance, I never

take a phone in my gym, never.

699

Yeah, I just train

because that's my space.

700

It's on Do Not Disturb.

701

It's locked away.

702

And, but I see people on the phone

in the gym and I'm like, wow, I know,

703

I know some people are looking at

being online trainers and that can

704

work, but your attention's not there.

705

And for those of us who know me, I train

a lot and I do a lot of strength and

706

conditioning and loads of fitness work.

707

If you are doing strength and fitness

of any nature and your break time

708

or rest time is you're on the phone.

709

You've put your body into

a state of Misattention.

710

I just checked my work email

before I do my next deadlift.

711

It

712

is the worst way to train

because you're not present.

713

You're not in the physiology

of what you're doing.

714

And your attention you've

just outsourced it.

715

And it's draining.

716

this whole thing around environment

design I think is super, super important.

717

Claire Elms: really,

really important, isn't it?

718

And I think as well, the, like the

working from home thing, like if,

719

if you've got mess somewhere, I

have children, they create mess.

720

It's like a, an avalanche of

disaster before they leave the house.

721

and if I was to then go around and if I

was sitting at I have, a garden office

722

because if I was sitting in the house,

I would be doing the, I'll just do the

723

dishwasher, or I'll just prep dinner, or

I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll just, there is the

724

I'll just, isn't it, all the time, and,

I'll just tidy up their rooms, or I'll

725

just sort this out, or I'll just sort that

out, and I, and like you say, and I think,

726

there's all this conversation around

multitasking and monotasking, isn't there?

727

But we can't multitask.

728

It takes 23 minutes to

get back on task again.

729

and so before you know it, your working

day has disappeared and you feel

730

like you haven't achieved anything

because you've, you've been like

731

your attention and your flow has been

elsewhere and you haven't focused.

732

It's the same when you're

scrolling on social media.

733

there was a really interesting,

conversation you had with Matt and your

734

podcast where you were talking about

social media, scrolling and stuff.

735

And it was really interesting

because it just really resonates.

736

So many people have that issue

where they are just check Facebook

737

or just checking LinkedIn or just

check, TikTok or whatever it is.

738

and then before, you're on like a

video frenzy of, of seeing other

739

people mapping out their lives.

740

which A, makes you have comparisonitis,

good old comparisonitis, where

741

you go, Oh, I'm not good enough.

742

And what am I, I'm not doing that.

743

And maybe I should be doing that.

744

and then it also makes you look around and

go, Oh, that's what I want to strive for.

745

And then it's sometimes that

could be healthy, right?

746

You can go, Oh yeah.

747

Okay.

748

I'm going to change some habits and I'm

going to focus on, that conversation

749

that Sal had about like doing this, that

and the other, I'm going to do that.

750

but quite often you get

suckered into the next thing.

751

And it's, it's.

752

ads and stuff that come up

and a lot of people dunno.

753

They can just turn the ads off as well.

754

and, just like little, little

hacks I guess as you go

755

Sal Jefferies: Yeah.

756

It's such an important thing.

757

I've got a client and I'm going

to be sharing to me, she's super,

758

super busy, super successful,

super busy, parent, all this stuff.

759

I was doing a lot of time on social

media and we, we got into the question

760

like, okay, because it was around about

energy and your home life and work life.

761

So it was the work life

balance conversation.

762

And, and I got interested, okay,

So what's, what's driving that?

763

What are you looking for when

you're on Instagram or TikTok or

764

one of the, one of the platforms?

765

And, because I asked, could you tell

me how good Instagram was last night?

766

And what post did you see?

767

And they're like, I

can't remember any of it.

768

literally couldn't remember any.

769

okay, so it has no stickiness.

770

It's just busy.

771

And actually what we found was, this

person was looking to downregulate.

772

They were longing to switch off.

773

Now, now the sentiment and

the intent is perfect, right?

774

I want to switch off.

775

I've had a busy day.

776

You can't switch off when you're

being dopamine spiked, right?

777

You're being pumped.

778

That's like trying to

switch off while sprinting.

779

It doesn't work.

780

your nervous system is going

jacked up and then you move

781

into sympathetic nervous system.

782

But the sentiment and the need is there.

783

I want to switch off.

784

So sometimes it's about checking

that homeostasis in the mind.

785

okay, I know I have this habit of

scrolling and I know it doesn't work.

786

How can I choose better for my work

life integration, which might look

787

like, for me, it's always getting

to the body, some form of movement.

788

Reading is a beautiful discipline.

789

I read loads.

790

I love reading and just

simply being kind to yourself.

791

I think it's important thing here.

792

We all want to switch off.

793

There's nothing quote wrong with

social media scrolling, but for every

794

minute of attention you give that.

795

You've, you've given that minute of your

life away to someone else and they ain't

796

paying you and if you are tired and you're

using things like social media and, and,

797

tech to take your attention away, that is

not downregulation, that's distraction.

798

So sometimes it takes a bit of a kind

of slap around the face to realize

799

that I'm just distracting myself.

800

Yeah, I know what I'm doing.

801

That's okay.

802

We don't want to get beat up, but

it's like, what do you actually want?

803

I want to sleep well.

804

Okay, cool.

805

Let's put better practice in place.

806

Phone away, book out, walk before

bed or whatever it is you need to do.

807

But coming awake to what is going on.

808

And I wanted to say something that

you said there and I pick up on it,

809

attention, so if we're looking for work

life balance, then where's your attention?

810

As you've already beautifully alluded

to, where's your attention as a busy mom?

811

If you're multitasking, are you

like, I'll just do this, do that.

812

If you cannot control your attention

and again, don't, there's no need

813

to beat up on oneself about this

because it's not easy, but being

814

able to hold attention on something

is becoming a real masterful gift.

815

It's

816

hard, right?

817

Yeah, it's like why I do heavy, heavy

weightlifting because you can't not pay

818

attention when you're trying to lift

your body weight off the floor, right?

819

You can't be thinking, oh, should I

just call so and so and how's my shorts?

820

You have to focus and that's why

I love strong practice, strong

821

physical training practice

because you have to pay attention.

822

Yoga as well, you can pay

attention, but for some of us

823

your mind can still go off there.

824

So whatever way works, but how we

manage our attention, what practices

825

are you working with your clients

about attention management and

826

attention, control to some degree?

827

How do you work with that?

828

Claire Elms: Yeah.

829

For me, you've alluded to it anyway,

is the awareness, like quite often

830

we, we're not aware that it's a thing,

especially as, as, as a parent, my kids

831

will be like, oh, can you just do this?

832

Can you just do that?

833

Can you, mum, can you do this?

834

Mum, I don't know how many times

I say mum in a day, it's painful.

835

and the amount of times I say to

them in a minute, and, and I've

836

really become aware of that recently.

837

I think like from COVID,

obviously, We're on our phones.

838

I was trying to manage the

business while being with the kids.

839

you're on your phone instead of the

computer trying to juggle stuff.

840

and I think my daughter, took, did

a, a picture of me with my phone.

841

And that for me was like, wow, that's not

how I want to be represented in her world.

842

That's not.

843

What's important to me and that,

and that for me was enough of a,

844

of a boundary kind of setting.

845

actually, I'm not going to be the

mom that's on the phone all the time.

846

That's not something that I'm going to be.

847

So for me, it's looking with, with

people of what are your boundaries?

848

like we're in a culture where we

like to say yes to stuff a lot.

849

we're in a culture where

everything is at our fingertips.

850

We can get anything we want

whenever we want, pretty much.

851

so how do we secure really clear

boundaries for ourselves to be

852

able to give attention to the

things that are important to us?

853

like when I do my exercising, I listen

to, I have my phone because I listen

854

to Spotify or I listen to a podcast.

855

I quite like listening to a podcast when

I go for a run, it's quite, it just,

856

because running then feels effortless,

it doesn't feel like I'm running

857

because I'm listening to something.

858

But to be fully present and have the

attention on the thing that you're

859

doing is a really, really hard thing.

860

And I think it is that understanding

and awareness, it starts with that,

861

because to make any kind of change, you

need to be aware that there's a problem.

862

and a lot of people aren't aware

that there's a problem because they

863

just, that's just what they're doing.

864

so having that awareness that

there's a thing, and then looking

865

at, how do I want that to look?

866

If I want to focus on eating healthier,

or I want to focus on doing more

867

exercise, or I want to focus on,

we've got seven, seven pillars of well

868

being, so like, when we think of well

being, we think of the physical, right?

869

We think of sleep, we think of

eating, and we think of exercise,

870

but that's only one element.

871

We've also got the mental health,

like, how are you feeling?

872

the amount of people that

say like, how are you?

873

And it's a flippant white hello, right?

874

But like, how many

people actually ask that?

875

Friends and colleagues, like, how

about you actually, like, how are

876

you actually doing, are you okay?

877

I, especially if you're concerned about

somebody, it's that, real attention,

878

asking really clear questions, having the

right question, I think, with coaching and

879

therapy, any intervention that's like a

helping practitioner intervention, having

880

the right question to ask someone to get

them to think, to, to trigger an emotion.

881

to trigger a feeling in their body

and it's that, like, how it connects

882

to your body is so important because

once you're connected with it, you're

883

aware of it and then you can change it

if you need to and so having that kind

884

of really clear outline for people of

what they need to do, how they need to

885

be and, and working on themselves, I

think is we talk about self care, right?

886

And we think, oh, yeah, it's It's

fluffy, it's like going to a spa

887

and, having massages and stuff and,

oh yeah, that's lovely, isn't it?

888

But there should be something in your

day, every day, gives you something for

889

you, in whatever capacity that is, that's

not work related, that's not, know,

890

something that you feel like you have to

do, but something that you want to do,

891

something that, that makes you feel good.

892

Because if you don't have

anything that makes you feel

893

good, what's the point, right?

894

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, absolutely.

895

Yeah.

896

All this work and no play.

897

It's seriously, what is the point?

898

And I think that that's one of the

brutal questions that needs to be asked.

899

And questions are, vehicles

of attention, to quest.

900

That's where the word question

comes from, to quest, to seek,

901

and a, and a, and a good coach and

therapist will, will know this.

902

perhaps other people's Oh

yeah, that's what it means,

903

but it's, it's powerful thing.

904

And when we self quest, where we

go yeah, what really matters to me?

905

Yeah, it's fine growing my business

or working hard in my company and all

906

that, but what really matters to me?

907

is your marriage or

your job more important?

908

They're brutal questions sometimes, but

someone's you've got to ask it, right?

909

oh god, I haven't really

paid attention at home.

910

I need to get my, get my things together.

911

Or, are you, 16 years and

catch up with them later?

912

Because you can't buy that back, no

matter how many millions you've got

913

in the bank, you can't buy time.

914

So these questions sometimes

are really uncomfortable.

915

And really enlightening, so I, I, I

heartily recommend to all, if we're

916

seeking work life balance, ask the

questions, like what really matters to me,

917

what do I value, as Claire, you've already

said, who do I want to be, and, and know

918

that stuff, and then start to get really

clear, okay, I've got some choices to

919

make here, if you want to be fit and well

when you're midlife and older, you can't

920

get away with not exercising and eating

well and sleeping well, it just, it just

921

won't happen for you, there'd just be too

many biases against you being healthy.

922

So you've got to choose what you

want and with choice, the word

923

decision comes from decide, that's

the same origin of homicide.

924

It means to kill off a

choice and have one choice.

925

Multitasking, just stop it.

926

You just do lots of things badly, right?

927

Take a choice, see the kids, watch the TV

program, go to your meeting, try, be there

928

and be there fully is way more powerful.

929

Now I want to,

930

Claire Elms: I saw, based on that,

sorry to interrupt Sal, but, when I

931

was looking at what to talk about for

today, I saw a quote, which I pulled

932

out, which I really like, and it's,

I'm not a product of circumstances.

933

I'm a product of my decisions

and it just goes really well

934

with what you've just said.

935

So I just thought I'd throw

that in, but yeah, to me,

936

decisions is really important.

937

And we have a choice, right?

938

We have a

939

Sal Jefferies: the ultimate gift of

being a conscious human being, that's a

940

belief I hold, and that is that we have

choice, and I recognize that some of

941

those people have more privilege and some

people have less, of course, that's the

942

truth of the world, but there's often a

choice, and okay, what choice can I make?

943

And even if your job demands are

difficult and you've got Put the hours in.

944

Fine.

945

But what choice can I make here?

946

Can I, when I come

home, be really at home?

947

whatever it is, what choice can I make?

948

Because that is your power.

949

And if you give that choice

away, plenty of people take it.

950

whether it's an internet company,

whether it's a Silicon Valley

951

company, people want your choices.

952

So sell them wisely.

953

Claire Elms: And with

choice comes opportunity

954

Sal Jefferies: Absolutely.

955

So how about we bring this to a close?

956

I, I, we've taken everyone on a, on a bit

of a journey here around all the things.

957

If we've come away from striving for

work life balance, but understand we need

958

it in the context that we understand.

959

What's last?

960

Guidance points.

961

Would you like to share, Claire, that

you would say these are key things

962

that are gonna really help you find

a healthy and a, and a, an odd,

963

more appropriate work-life balance.

964

Claire Elms: think it's, I think a few

top tips, is like understanding yourself,

965

understanding where, what, what, what's

important to you, where your values are,

966

what you want out of life, like what, what

gets you going, what, what makes you who

967

you are, how you want to live your life.

968

Understand that you can make

choices within that process.

969

For me, it's, it's having an

understanding of your wellbeing.

970

So looking at the pillars of the well

being, which we haven't really touched

971

on today and it's a whole conversation in

its own right, but having an understanding

972

of how you as a person links in with your

well being, links in with your emotional

973

intelligence and links in with your

mental fitness, mental toughness, and how

974

all of those things enhance you to get,

to, to do, to, to get the performance

975

that you want, and, and to do the things

that you want that are important to

976

you, having really clear boundaries.

977

And setting clear expectations.

978

Sal Jefferies: Really nice, powerful.

979

Yeah.

980

Super salient points.

981

I, I, I, I agree.

982

I works with me.

983

I love what you've said there,

and I hope, hope if you're taking

984

notes, get that down or replay it.

985

one thing I'd just like to speak to is,

is understanding the, It starts within,

986

the ecosystem of you is your physiology,

your emotional system, and your mind.

987

We often look outwards, it's how

the human system is designed.

988

We look out through our eyes, we see

the world around us, but Start at home.

989

Take care of your body.

990

Be strong, be active, and,

this isn't a quick fix.

991

I don't buy any quick fixes

with the whole health thing.

992

this is a lifestyle.

993

It could take you ten years to

get the body composition you

994

want, or the health you want.

995

But you'll be there in ten years.

996

So keep going start with the body check

your emotional state and as Claire

997

spoke about we've only touched on it

But learn about breath work get the

998

basics get the basics of how to breathe

and regulate because emotions drive our

999

Thinking to a large extent and checking

with your with your mind as Claire you

00:51:09,568 --> 00:51:13,718

said values What do you really want your

choices if you come from those spaces?

00:51:14,338 --> 00:51:18,478

Your work life choices will become quite

clear and they will probably become much

00:51:18,478 --> 00:51:20,278

more, more in line with what you want.

00:51:20,288 --> 00:51:24,178

So there are my thoughts on how to

perhaps pull this together, for a

00:51:24,188 --> 00:51:27,018

better work life coherence, perhaps.

00:51:28,018 --> 00:51:28,308

Claire Elms: Yeah.

00:51:28,308 --> 00:51:30,488

And it's understanding

that everyone's different.

00:51:30,488 --> 00:51:31,458

It was quite interesting.

00:51:31,488 --> 00:51:34,728

even this morning, somebody phoned

me literally just before I came

00:51:34,728 --> 00:51:37,958

on and I said, Oh, I am, I'm

just about to go into a meeting.

00:51:37,958 --> 00:51:40,378

And they said, Oh, I could

phone you at lunchtime.

00:51:40,378 --> 00:51:42,828

I know that's not appropriate,

but how about one o'clock?

00:51:43,328 --> 00:51:46,988

And I was like, he's assuming that I

have a lunch break at one o'clock, but I

00:51:47,008 --> 00:51:48,238

don't have a lunch break at one o'clock.

00:51:48,528 --> 00:51:50,968

So it's quite interesting, isn't it?

00:51:50,968 --> 00:51:55,348

How that kind of awareness just

generally is, is with other people,

00:51:55,388 --> 00:51:57,388

but taking breaks is really important.

00:51:57,398 --> 00:52:02,518

So having an understanding

of the, when you, when you do

00:52:02,518 --> 00:52:03,818

choose to work in an evening.

00:52:04,343 --> 00:52:07,453

Why you choose to work in an evening, if

you choose to do something at the weekend,

00:52:07,493 --> 00:52:10,933

Why you're choosing to do something at

the weekend, and if you're choosing to

00:52:10,933 --> 00:52:17,453

take time during your working day, to

do things like fitness or something for

00:52:17,453 --> 00:52:22,473

you, they're not feeling guilty about

that as well because that can really take

00:52:22,528 --> 00:52:23,388

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, absolutely.

00:52:23,388 --> 00:52:23,878

Yes.

00:52:23,978 --> 00:52:25,538

Make choices wisely.

00:52:25,628 --> 00:52:25,978

Yeah.

00:52:26,148 --> 00:52:27,438

Own your choices.

00:52:27,748 --> 00:52:28,828

Own your choices.

00:52:29,828 --> 00:52:34,608

And keep an eye on the sneaky guilt that

can sneak up and yeah, just, get present.

00:52:35,068 --> 00:52:39,078

Claire, thank you for sharing, lots

of thoughts, experience, knowledge,

00:52:39,108 --> 00:52:40,648

and wisdom from your perspective.

00:52:40,708 --> 00:52:43,718

I very much appreciate you coming

and joining me in the conversation.

00:52:44,108 --> 00:52:46,828

I trust if you're listening that

you have scribbled down notes,

00:52:46,828 --> 00:52:47,708

you've tapped them in your phone.

00:52:47,758 --> 00:52:50,558

If you've just listened and gone,

that's all really interesting.

00:52:50,783 --> 00:52:52,113

Do you really want work life balance?

00:52:52,633 --> 00:52:55,003

I would say, and this is what I do

in my podcast when I listen to other

00:52:55,003 --> 00:53:00,673

people, I take it like a lecture and

I play it back and I make my notes and

00:53:00,673 --> 00:53:02,443

I integrate it into my understanding.

00:53:02,443 --> 00:53:06,193

So if there's something that's just chimed

with you, play this back, get the notes,

00:53:06,253 --> 00:53:09,303

make the points, and lastly, take action.

00:53:10,303 --> 00:53:13,463

Claire Elms: I do the one thing, I don't

know if you do that Sal, but just choose

00:53:13,463 --> 00:53:17,443

one thing from what we spoke about today

and that you're going to do different.

00:53:18,068 --> 00:53:18,558

Sal Jefferies: Choose one

00:53:18,558 --> 00:53:18,838

thing.

00:53:19,238 --> 00:53:20,288

We shall leave you on that.

00:53:20,288 --> 00:53:21,028

Choose one thing.

00:53:21,038 --> 00:53:23,958

And as, of course, you can

always reach out on the various,

00:53:23,998 --> 00:53:25,738

connections on the pod page.

00:53:25,738 --> 00:53:26,628

You can reach me at the site.

00:53:26,728 --> 00:53:29,188

All details will be following

up after this, piece.

00:53:30,108 --> 00:53:31,798

Thank you, dear listener, for joining us.

00:53:31,908 --> 00:53:34,058

Thank you, Claire, for being

in conversation with me.

00:53:34,058 --> 00:53:35,058

I've really enjoyed this.

00:53:35,118 --> 00:53:37,168

And, until the next one, take care.

00:53:37,681 --> 00:53:37,861

Claire Elms: care.

00:53:37,861 --> 00:53:38,121

Bye.

00:53:43,335 --> 00:53:44,985

Sal Jefferies: Thank you

so much for listening.

00:53:45,255 --> 00:53:48,825

If you enjoyed the episode,

please subscribe and if a friend

00:53:48,825 --> 00:53:51,915

would benefit from hearing this,

do send it on to them as well.

00:53:53,115 --> 00:53:56,115

If you would like to get in touch

yourself, then you can go to my website,

00:53:56,355 --> 00:54:05,025

which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S

A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com.

00:54:05,325 --> 00:54:08,685

Hit the get in touch link and there

you can send me a direct message.

00:54:09,630 --> 00:54:12,510

If you'd like to go one step further

and learn whether coaching could help

00:54:12,510 --> 00:54:17,190

you overcome a challenge or a block

in your life, then do reach out and

00:54:17,190 --> 00:54:20,580

I offer a call where we can discuss

how this may be able to help you.

00:54:21,450 --> 00:54:23,370

Until the next time, take care.