Episode Summary:

Join Harry Duran, host of Vertical Farming Podcast, as he welcomes to the show Dandridge Melton, founder of Vertical Growth Farming Systems, an organization that’s seeking to change the way that the world approaches hunger, malnutrition, natural disasters and the effects traditional farming has on our environment through their unique container farms.

Today, Harry and Dandridge discuss the vertical farming landscape, competitors to Vertical Growth Farming Systems and how Dandridge’s entrepreneurial spirit has contributed to his success in this immensely important field. They talk about the future of farming and why education is critical if we as a planet are going to be able to adapt to agricultural challenges we soon may face. Dandridge shares his profound belief in this project and talks more about his mission to change the way the world feeds itself.

Episodes Sponsor:

Global Vertical Farming Show – https://verticalfarmingshow.com/ 

Cultivatd – https://cultivatd.com/

What We Covered:

03:41 – Harry welcomes to the show Dandridge Melton who shares his fascinating journey as a serial entrepreneur and what inspired him to launch Vertical Growth Farming Systems

21:31 – Dandridge recalls the first time vertical farming came on his radar

26:52 – Competitors in the vertical farming landscape and the work Dandridge is doing at VGFS

34:18 – The importance of educating the youth on vertical farming

45:32 – A tough question Dandridge has had to ask himself recently and an ask Dandridge has for the audience

51:30 – Harry thanks Dandridge for joining the show and reiterates where listeners can go to learn more about VGFS and connect with Dandridge 

Tweetable Quotes:

“I have learned this from playing hoops in the pickup gym. Every genre of occupation is represented. You’ve got your brain surgeon, your HVHC guy, your lawyer, your plumber, your restaurant owner, your barber. So, over time, you just never know when those relationships are gonna manifest into something you never even thought about.” (17:43) (Dandrige)

“So, I think that we are gonna be a gamechanger in the vertical farming space. And I say that for a couple of reasons. So yes you’ve got your industrial-sized guys in vertical farming, the venture capitalist money, where they’re putting it in vertical farming. It’s all these behemoth implementations.” (27:32) (Dandrige)

“We have a grow room in our shipping containers, so we can go from seed to seedling, and we have a walk-in cooler. And it’s all driven by solar, so we’re completely off the grid.” (31:40) (Dandrige)

“The population continues to grow. We are losing farmable land. So those are diametrically opposed to each other. So, what’s a viable solution? You’re running out of space. You’re running out of good soil. Vertical farming is just going to continue. Whatever it is today, it’s gonna be more important tomorrow. I firmly believe that.” (35:01) (Dandrige)

Links Mentioned:

Dandridge’s LinkedIn

Vertical Growth Farming Systems Website

Vertical Farming Show

Sponsor Info:

Cultivatd Website

Cultivatd Instagram

Cultivatd’s Twitter

Cultivatd’s Facebook

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Mentioned in this episode:

2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews

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or click the link in the show notes. So I think that

we are, I mean, we're gonna be a game changer in

the vertical farming space. And I say that for a couple of reasons.

So yes, you've got your, you know, your what I call industrial

size guys in vertical farming, you know, both as well as,

you know, the venture capitalist money, where they're putting it in vertical

farming. It's all these, you know, kind of behemoth

implementations, right?

Welcome to the Vertical Farming Podcast, weekly conversations

with fascinating CEOs, Founders, and agtech

visionaries. Join us every week as we dive deep into the

world of vertical farming with your host, Harry Duran.

Vertical Farming Podcast, Season 4. Welcome back. If this is your first time

listening, yes, yes, yes, you're in the right place in case you were

lost somewhere in the podosphere. It's the one where we interview

fascinating CEOs and founders of the leading vertical farming companies from around the world.

I'm your host, Harry Duran. Last week we had a special episode, round 2,

with co-founder and managing director at Cultivated, Eric Levesque. Regular

listeners are no strangers to the great team at Cultivated. It was great to

get an update on their recent Series A $3 million round

and some of the new projects they had in the works. And it's always fun

to hear what's happening in their world as they're connected to so many

interesting projects that are getting off the ground. This week I have the pleasure of

speaking with Dandridge Melchin, the CEO of Vertical Growth Farming Systems. It's an

organization that's seeking to change the way that the world approaches hunger,

malnutrition, natural disasters, and the effects traditional farming has on our

environment through their unique container farms. And in this episode,

we discuss the vertical farming landscape, competitors to their system,

and how Dandridge's entrepreneurial spirit has contributed to his success in this

immensely important field. We talk about the future of farming and why education is

critical if we as a planet are going to be able to adapt to

agricultural challenges we're soon facing. Dandridge shares his profound

belief in the project and talks more about his mission to change the way the

world feeds itself. Really love hearing stories of

entrepreneurs, as I am one myself, and this is really an

inspiring conversation. I know you'll like it. Excited to be partnering once

again with Indoor AgCon. Whether you're starting up or scaling up, Indoor

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by the top CEOs and thought leaders, and connect with peers, grocers, and

other potential new business partners at great networking events.

And it's looking like I'll actually be there myself, so Be on the lookout for

me. I'll see if I can get some t-shirts made for the podcast

to make it easy. And I'll also be looking to connect with some previous hosts.

You can save an additional 25% off registration with our new promo code

VFPOD22.

That's VFPOD22. And you can learn more about the

conference at indore.ag. As always, ratings and reviews can be

left at ratethispodcast.com/vfp. I'd love to read yours out

next. All right, without further ado, let's get into this conversation with Dandridge.

So, Dandridge Melton, founder of Vertical

Growth Farming Systems, thank you for joining me on the Vertical Farming Podcast. Thanks for

having me. It's a pleasure to be here. So where's home for you? I'm

currently located in San Luis Obispo, California. So

we're on the Central Coast, halfway between Los

Angeles and San Francisco. I've been here 21

years, but getting ready to move On the 15th of April, moving

to Spartanburg, South Carolina. Wow. What's the

impetus for that move? So I connected with

an economic development group there called Upstate

Alliance. Okay. And we're going to start manufacturing

there this time next year. And so they have a lot of

tax incentives, grant monies for small to

medium-sized manufacturers like myself. So California has just

become extremely difficult to, to, you know, start

and run a small business. Yeah, I lived— I'm in Minneapolis now.

I've been a bit nomadic. I grew up in New York, so I, I'm really

very familiar with, uh, the East Coast. Left in 2014 and lived in

LA for 4 years, so I'm also familiar with LA and that part

of the country. Yeah, it's been challenging to see what's been happening there

with everything related to the pandemic and the weather and the wildfires, and

it's just been— and you could probably speak to that better, how crazy it's been.

Yeah, I mean, it's, uh, I moved here with a— so this is my 5th

startup, uh, 4th as a founder. And the one

where I wasn't the founder, I was employee number 2 with a high-tech

startup in Prescott, Arizona. And we moved here to, uh, St. Louis

because of Cal Poly. We were a hardware and software

developer, and Cal Poly is just a great engineering

school. And our engineer was a Cal Poly

alum, so we wanted to tap into that resource. That's what brought

me to California. I'm originally born and raised in

Northern Virginia, just outside of the DC Beltway. Okay. And yeah,

it's been, it's like I said, this being my 5th

startup, I've started a couple businesses here.

California is, you know, just uber expensive

pretty much on every level, just even, you know, daily living, you know, cost of

milk, You know, I think I paid $4.89 for

a gallon of gas yesterday. Wow. And again, just, you

know, as a small business person and, you know, having

limited resources, it's tough to start and grow a business in

California. The, you know, the permitting, the cost.

And yeah, outside of that, I mean, here, you know, Highway 1, they

just had some more rockslides. We got a lot of rain the last couple of

weeks and of course, the wildfires.

It's a great spot here on the Central Coast. I mean, we're in

some pretty nice wine country. Yeah. You know, the weather's typically

always amazing. But my wife, and again,

being from the East Coast, I have 4 siblings. My parents are kind of

sprinkled from DC to Miami. So we're looking forward to the

moves, you know, the 4 seasons and having our

dollar go Much further than they can here in California.

It's interesting, the 4 seasons, because I'm now in the Midwest and I

never imagined I'd be here, but that's what love does to you

sometimes. Yeah, love does make you do crazy things,

right? Yeah. And so we went up north for New Year's.

My partner's parents have a cabin up there and, and, uh, just about an hour

and a half or 2 hours north. And he's like, you guys know it's -25

right now? Oh man. It's like, well, we're gonna be in the

cabin and it's only One day and then, then it warms up, it gets

to -5. Right, exactly. Keep the fire going

and bring your long johns. And I did do snowshoes for the

first time ever. So that was fun. Oh, how was it? It was cool. Well,

they're modern because I think I'm, I'm 51. So I'm like old school. And

I— okay. When I think of snowshoes, I think of like these wooden things like

Swiss Family Robinson. Totally. It wasn't that way at all?

No, they're fiberglass now. They're really light. Probably not as big either, are

they? No, not as big either and easy to use. And then the heel is

not connected to the bottom. So as you're walking, you're sort of

like— More natural. Yeah, it's more natural walking. It takes a little bit of used

to, but then you are— you can, you can go in deep snow and not

sink all the way in, which is fun. And I think with everything else, it's

just— you spoke about the 4 seasons. I think there is something inherent

about sort of like the birth and rebirth cycles and, and

just experiencing the cold and knowing that that's short-lived. And then,

you know, I did get spoiled being out in LA for 4 years. Just like,

it would get to 55 and I'm like, Oh, it's chilly. No, totally that. I

feel you on that, Harry. You know, just that kind of rebirthing, you know,

it's just kind of, you know, the seasons. I mean, there's a reason we have

seasons. Yes. And, you know, it's amazing

summer here, like, you know, 360 days of the

year. And of course, we were thankful for all the rain we got

the last few weeks, but, you know, we're still in a drought.

You know, we're We need so much more water to fall.

There's not a lot of rain on the forecast. And this is our rainy

season right now. So, you know, just hoping, praying

for more rain. Yeah, it feels like that's always the

conversation. I just remember like living there and,

and you take it for granted growing up on the East Coast that just rain

is normal. Like it's, it just rains every, every now and then. And then when

you get there and you're like, It hasn't rained in like 3 months. It's crazy,

right? And you get one day for like 2 hours and you're like, everyone's

tweeting about it. You know it's extreme weather in California because people

go on social media. Yeah, that's the, that's the only rain you got to get

for the next 3 months. Yeah, or an earthquake too. I experienced

a sustained tremor, which was like really interesting if

you've never been through one as well. So yeah, I've been through a couple now

that I've been here. Yeah, pretty Unless you've lived through one,

it's one of those experiences like you can't really, you know,

verbally tell someone like the experience until

you've actually, you know, lived through one. And then it's like, holy

mackerel. That's, you know, we certainly didn't get those

in Fairfax, Virginia growing up. It's a weird—

you're right, because you cannot explain what it's like to be sleeping in bed

and just have the floor start shaking. And realize

that you cannot do— you can't do anything about it. You just have to like

hope. We're just wondering like, how long is this going to last? And I think

it was maybe 20 to 30 seconds. It's just a long

time. Yeah. Oh, it is. I think the first one I experienced was

2000. I was down in Costa Mesa with our engineer.

And I was sleeping at his folks' house. It was probably, you

know, 1 or 2 in the morning. And I woke up to that whole thing.

Bed was shaking, the The artwork was kind of doing the back

and forth. Wow. And yeah, then, you know, what do you

do? Do you stand in the doorway? Do you go for

an interior room? I actually stood in the doorway and then I wanted to—

I went to the front door, which is like apparently a no-no,

right? You're putting yourself at risk kind of doing those things. But

yeah, it's just a phenomenon that unless you kind of witness

it yourself, it's It's hard to describe. Yeah. So when

did you first get the entrepreneurial bug? So my first go

at being an entrepreneur was, uh, 1993. I was

playing, uh, professional basketball in the south of France. Oh wow. For a

couple of years and came back in the spring of

'93. And my girlfriend at the time,

her brother was a successful studio drummer

there in Phoenix. And it's about the same time the

Spin Doctors, if you remember that band. I'm

59, so we're not too far apart in age. Yeah, yeah. So the Spin Doctors

had come out of Tempe. So there's a pretty nice music scene going on.

And he said, hey, you know, I got a great idea for a business. You

know, it's a place for bands to practice. Okay. And he

took me to where bands were currently paying to

practice. And I said, well, I can, I can do

better than, than what's currently being done. And

started, you know, I started with a 15,000 square foot building. And

when I sold it, I had over 262 bands

practicing there. I had a couple of— I was

there 2 weeks and the band Megadeth showed up and

they paid, paid my rent for the first 6 months. That's awesome. I should have

asked them for twice as much. And then Dionne Warwick

and UB40 practiced at my spot. Very cool.

And then mostly, I mean, they were all, you know, for the most part, just

local, you know, guys that had a day job that, you know, want, you

know, the aspiring professional musician. So that was

my first go at that, at being an entrepreneur.

And then I hooked up with this startup

company and in Prescott, northern Arizona,

and that's what moved me here. So that was my

second— I was employee number 2. That was Slow

Veg, right? No, that was my third go. My

third go. So the high-tech startup

was super successful. We won Best of Show at

what's now called the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas, the

CES. We won Best of Show. Wow. We had

some RFID, some asset tracking software,

hardware. And then I watched— we went through about

5 CEOs and about $30 million

in a couple of years and just watched them piledrive the company in the

ground. It was— wow. It was, you know, I learned a lot, but it

was extremely disappointing. I mean, we had a lot of promise with

our technology, but just couldn't get the right people at the

at the leadership positions to, to move us forward. So,

and then 2009, of course, we all remember the economy.

2009, I, I got the idea

here in St. Louis to start a home-delivered, locally grown

produce company, a CSA, and started that

with 28 customers and sold it with almost 3,000

back in 2016. What was happening in your

life? Like what, How did you even get the idea for that? So the truth

about the, so that idea, so I,

my mother had passed away in '05 there on the East Coast. So I

went back and was living in the town where I

went to high school close to my dad. And so I

came back here to San Luis Obispo in 2008. So I had, there

was about a 2.5-hour or 2.5-year break

when I left Slow. Moved back to the East Coast, came

back. And so this is 2008, the economy's

starting to tank. I went to 22

job interviews. I didn't get a single offer. Wow.

I was either, you know, kind of that, that quandary, you know,

too expensive for, for the economy,

or they knew I was going to take a, you know, $15 an hour

job. And I was going to leave as soon as, you know, there was something

better. So I didn't get a single offer. And I was

watching TV at my house one night. I'd probably been back here

about a month. And there was a show on TV, How I Made

My First Million. And they had, you

know, half of the show was about this scientist, the guy that

invented the Super Soaker, right?

The big squirt gun. Yeah. And so I watched that. And

then the second half of that show was about this husband and wife

who had started a company in the Bay Area called Planet Organics.

Okay. And they had started 13 years prior. They

did, they had one van, 8 pieces of local

produce, organic, certified organic produce. And so

the show was 13 years later. They had 48 vans, did

almost $30 million in gross sales. And then in that show, they

asked the husband and wife, the founders, like, who is your

customer? What is the demographic? And they said, well, they're health

conscious, they're environmentally conscious, they understand

sustaining local economies. And I looked at

my girlfriend and I said, man, that's exactly the person that

lives here in San Luis Obispo. You know, they, you know, checked all those

boxes. And so I literally got up the next morning, Called

one of my basketball buddies who was the assistant dean at the School of

Agriculture here at Cal Poly. And I said, hey, I got this

crazy idea about a home-delivered produce company. And he hooked me up

with the School of Ag and some seniors did a

feasibility study. And I literally took about the

next 9 months and wrote a business plan, learned

about, you know, pricing in the ag industry. And,

and then launched, like I said, June 15th, 2009 with

28 customers. And, you know, again, the economy was,

you know, tanking. And I just— man, it just took

off. It was amazing. You know, like I said, I

sold it back in '26, July of 2016.

So 7 years later with almost 3,000

customers. That's a nice story. What I love is

sometimes how the threads of connections. You don't

necessarily understand them when they're happening. And you mentioned like you, one of your

teammates from the basketball team ended up being the person that you reached out

to when you had a question about it because he happened to be in a

position that would be helpful. And I don't think you'd ever imagined

when you went to go play basketball there that you'd be building relationships that, you

know, would be beneficial and be helpful for you sometime in the future.

Yeah. I mean, it's— so I have learned this about, you know, my, you know,

the pickup playing hoops in the pickup gym, right? It's like

every genre of occupation is represented, right? You

got your brain surgeon, you got your

HVAC guy, you've got your lawyer, your

plumber, your restaurant owner,

barber. And so over

time, to your point, you just

never know when those relationships are going to kind of manifest in the

something you never even thought about. And, you know, thankful

that, you know, of course, just playing pickup, it's just, we're just playing for

fun. So those relationships are typically healthy.

Yeah. It's sort of like the court is the great equalizer.

It is, in fact. Right. Yeah. So, you know, what did

you do after then? Did you kind of sit, you know, after you exited that,

did you sit and try to figure out what your next move was going to

be, or did you have something in mind? Well, I had nothing. Well,

I had, so when I sold it, I actually, in that

sale agreement, I partitioned off

the North County of San Luis Obispo, Paso Robles, kind of this

other half. And I was going to just

replicate my business model up there, you

know, use the same farmers, same demographic. Okay. And

then I, Ran into again one of my other

basketball friends who's actually an HVAC

contractor here. And actually, we ran into each other the

day I came to an agreement with the buyer of

my CSA. So I worked for him for a while,

kind of in an interim capacity, kind of till I

figured out what my next step was. And in that moment,

a builder here on the coast came up to me and said, hey,

you know, we're not really digging your boss, but

we like you, Dan. And across the street over there,

next year we're going to build 125 more

houses and we would like you to be our

HVAC contractor. And I said, well, you

know, I know nothing really about the industry. How can I get a

license? You know what? How does the math play out if I were to do

that? And so it took me about 2 weeks to figure

out I probably should have been an HVAC contractor my whole life

because the money is exceptional. Really?

And, you know, I, I met the criteria for my

California HVAC contractor's license, you know, took

the test, did all the, you know, submitted all the proper, you know,

required paperwork and got my HVAC

license here in the state. And then partnered with that

builder and did, I don't know, roughly about

325 all new homes, new construction.

And about a year into it, I realized

I was, though I really enjoyed the cash,

I wasn't having any fun doing it. It was, you know, like model 1

is model 1 for the whole subdivision. Yeah. Right. So the

parts are the same. Very cookie cutter. Right. Totally cookie cutter.

And I just got— I did. I just got bored with it. And then

I, you know, at that point I knew just within myself I needed,

you know, I needed to start looking for something else. And I had gotten the

idea about this vertical farm about 4

years ago. And so I, you know, I met my

contractual obligations with the builder and said, hey, you know, I've

got to move in a different direction. And so You know, this month

makes 2 years I've been working on this current endeavor, my

5th, my 5th startup. Do you remember when

vertical farming came on your radar? I do. It was, truth be

told, back when I started my home-delivered produce company here. I

had one of my customers come up to me,

and she was actually a rep for a product called the Tower Garden,

which I'm sure you're familiar with. Yeah, I'm I've heard of it. Yeah. So it's

kind of a— it's about half of a wine barrel made out of

plastic. That's the reservoir, has about a 4-inch

or 4-foot-tall tower that can grow about 30

plants in that tower. And, you know, has a fish

pump that kind of percolates the liquid nutrients on top of

that, and they kind of trickle down on the roots, you know, kind of. And

it's great for, you know, kind of a a back patio or

back balcony. And she wanted me to sell it to my

customers there at Slow Veg. And I said,

absolutely. I mean, this is amazing. How much is that? She's, oh, well, this is

our base model and it's $499.

And I looked at it and thought to myself,

wow, that's about $40 worth of plastic. And a

fish pump. And $499 just seems

a little over the top. So I immediately pivoted and said, hey, how

about if I become a distributor? Smart. She said, well,

then your cost is like $299. So then I was still

going, man, that just seems super

expensive. But that was my introduction to vertical farming.

I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know what you could grow or

if And I knew zero about it. Since that moment,

2009, even through today, I'm still tracking

the development industry of vertical farming.

And then again, about 4 years ago, I just kind of— the

light bulb went off in my head and it's like, man,

it's— So they, as you well know, it's, you know, in

shipping containers, it's a controlled environment or it's

repurposed warehouses and urban environments. which are all

magnificent, but they have some limitations, right? They have

kind of that control environment just mandates

a substantial energy requirement to manage

the heating, cooling, lighting, hydroponic components. I

mean, you can't— it's on the grid. And so I got the idea

like, man, why can't we just kind of take the, you know,

solar hydroponic vertical

And kind of put those parts and pieces together in a really

dumbed-down fashion, you know, to get to the guy that,

you know, lives somewhere that's not getting good food but isn't close

to this urban environment or close to the grid. Yeah.

And did any of the experience in HVAC help in

terms of like on the mechanical side? I'm just curious about that. No. So I

actually am part of, currently still part of So Cal

Poly, you know, again has a, they have what they call a hothouse,

an incubator program for, you know, aspiring entrepreneurs.

But in parallel to that, they have, it's supported by the Small

Business Association called the Small Business Development Center. So

that, that runs in parallel to the incubator hothouse.

I applied for that January last year, got accepted.

And so I get all those Cal Poly resources

for free. And so last school year, I had 7

seniors and 3 PhDs helping.

I had 5 industrial technology students. Wow. Plus

the department chair and another PhD. So

they have, they've given me like 40 pages of white paper to tell

me exactly how this production, you know, we've got to come in the front right,

front left corner of a warehouse. And we're going to— it's going to be just

a blank 20-foot shipping container and it's going to move around the

interior perimeter and it's going to come out the other

corner, front corner, ready to ship. And so, you

know, that information would have, you know, if I had hired an

engineering firm, would cost me, you know, $100 grand. I got it for

free. The kids got a great experience, you know, putting it together.

And then I had 2 more students kind of on the entrepreneur, on the business

side of Cal Poly that did my websites,

started going down the path with kind of that social

media. You know, I am of the age, as I said,

59, where, you know, those platforms, those social

platforms, Instagram, TikTok, you know,

how often do you do it? When do you do it? You know, I missed

all that, right? That was, that came after my kind of professional

life. So those students were invaluable

in, you know, helping me understand

how the messaging needs to happen once I kind of start rolling this

out. So I think some of the questions folks might have that

are familiar with the space, it runs the gamut, as you've alluded to.

And we've had folks here from Freight Farms who do

focus on the shipping containers, which I'm sure you are familiar

with them. And then obviously to the the Bowerys, the Plenties, the AeroFarms.

Yeah, yeah. You know, the, the mega large operations.

So part of what is important, I think, is educating folks as to the

different options. And that's why our, our platinum sponsor Cultivate has

been really helpful as, as an entry point for people who are interested.

You know, they kind of see where their interest lies, and then they direct them

to the appropriate project, and then it's free to them because the partner pays

cultivated. So that's, that's how they make their money and they're able to

serve more people. So yeah, we always talk about on the show about the

education process. And so as you yourself are getting educated in

opportunities and how you want to sell this and who— what would be a good

market for this farm, how do you distinguish what

vertical growth farming currently offers? So I think that

we are— I mean, we're going to be a game changer in

the vertical farming space. And I say that for a couple of reasons.

So yes, you've got your, you know, your what I call industrial

size guys in vertical farming, you know, both as well

as, you know, the venture capitalist money where they're putting it in vertical

farming. Yeah, it's all these, you know, kind of behemoth

implementations, right? And I've watched Freight Farms, you know, for

the last 11 years and And they're amazing. Their

product's amazing. They definitely, you know, they're on

whatever the radiation of, you know, the next rev of their

product. So they're just bigger, better, stronger than they were when they started.

But again, those are all, they are handcuffed

to the power grid and they require a lot of power

because they are climate-controlled environments. And Mother Nature,

as we all know, she's a beast. She's going to hunt

down agricultural efforts even in controlled

environments and try to make mold

happen, or she's just going to try to beat you up at every

turn. And so what differentiates us from—

well, certainly we're not of that size and scope. So I would

say who I consider indirect competitors

are only 2 companies today. One's called Farm From a

Box. They're based out of the Bay Area. So they have a 20-foot

shipping container, you get 2 acres of drip

irrigation. So you get about 80,000 feet of drip

irrigation. They're totally off the grid, you got to have a

freshwater source to kind of hook up to. And then they

have a cold storage so you can— inside the

container so you can take the output of those 2

acres and give it some shelf life. So I met with the

principals a couple of years ago when I just started down this

path with my project, and they were very forthcoming. They're like,

hey, you know, we lost sales because the potential customer,

the soil wasn't any good. And just because you give it water

doesn't mean you get to grow things, right? So they lost sales.

And then they had some sales that took more than 3 years to

Totally, you know, beginning to, you know, getting the check cut to them

because those customers did want to amend the soil.

And then that takes, you know, 2 or 3 years to amend soil to

then put it on and start farming. So

they're— and they've done very well. I think they're 7 years

old this year, 7 or 8 years old. I think they're, you know, millions

in sales. So they're doing— Well, but they are

handcuffed by the soil.

So I've taken, you know, ours is soilless, no soil.

So that's out of the equation. And then the other who I just

found last summer was Farm in a Pod.

They're currently based out of St. Croix, US Virgin Islands,

and they actually are an aquaponic vertical farm.

And so they're like us, you got to have

freshwater source. But once you land their 20-foot

container, they give you on the inside, they kind of give you the parts and

pieces to build a greenhouse on top of that

container. That's where the vertical tubes are all hanging.

Okay. And then interior below is where the aquaponics

fish are. And I spoke to the principal there as well

in August and I was looking at his website,

kind of checking him out before I called. They've gotten a

prototype. They're not in production yet. They're on St. Croix

because they know they need to be next to a port to get

it, to ship it. And I started looking at that and I was like, okay,

so what happens when the fish die? Because they got a

shelf life. Okay. And then what happens when you—

harvest the crop, like, how do you

reload it? Well, we have a grow room in our

shipping container, so we can go from seed to seedling, and we

have a walk-in cooler, and it's all driven by

solar. So we're completely off the grid. And so,

you know, I've been talking to the Future Farmers of America. So we're going to

roll out 3 pilot programs this year here in the

next 6 months. We're going to do one at my Future Farmers of America

chapter at my old high school. That's to talk about coming full circle.

Right, exactly. Because kids need to understand. So there's a, you

know, some say that by 2030, we're going to be out of complete— the earth

is going to be completely out of topsoil. And some say it

could be 2050. So even if you go 2050, we're

out of topsoil. That's why regenerative farming is really picking

up because we've learned that disking and just destroying that

ecosystem. You know, that first 6 inches is

problematic to the health of the soil. But ours,

you know, if I sell my product to the

FFA chapter in Chicago, for example, come November 1st,

2 kids can disassemble it within an hour,

shove it all back in the shipping container, lock the doors, put a lock

on it. And then come April 1st in Chicago, Open

it back up, set it back up, start growing

again. And then of course you can take the output of

the farm. So our particular design produces

1,700 super nutritious plants every 60

days if you had a— if you could grow year round. And

so then you can take that output if you're an FFA chapter,

put it back into your food costs for the cafeteria.

You know, and it's, you know, uber nutritious. Or

you could say to those kids, hey, go sell those 1,700

heads of lettuce in your neighborhood and we can raise, you know,

$1,700 to go to the national convention. You know, you can,

you know, they could do it however they want. So those things really

differentiate us from even those 2 kind of,

you know, closely related Competitors. And when you said

that, what I immediately thought of was being asked to sell chocolate bars

when I was in grade school, and now it's heads of lettuce. Yeah,

exactly. I mean, I was on the tennis team, I was in band,

I was on the debate team in high school. I was kind of that geek.

And of course, all of those, you know, if you're not like football, if

you're not a major sport in a high school, you know, you got to come

up with your own funding. And I'm sure that's probably true today to some

extent. So how important was it to— you

talked about the ability for the 2 students to tear it down and

lock it up for the season, and you talked about the ability to work with

the, the high school. Looking forward, and this is some of the

conversations we've had on the show, but how important do you think it is, the

education aspect of like educating, involving the community,

having them, you know, self-sustainability, this idea of like

growing crops to to fund projects?

How do you think about those things going forward? Well, I think they're paramount,

actually. I mean, you can't move forward without a

good foundation of education. And we're running

out of, you know, the population continues to grow.

We are losing farmable land. So this, again, just world—

in a worldwide kind of scope, right? You know, We're growing

in population, we're losing farmable land. And so

those are diametrically opposed to each other. So how do

we, you know, what's the solution? What's a

viable solution? Well, you're running out of space,

you're running out of good soil. Vertical farming is going

to just continue. Whatever it is today, it's going to be more

important tomorrow. I firmly believe that. And so those—

Yeah, those youth coming, you know, coming up

are going to have to understand, you know, the

engineering, the science, the methodology. So

I, that's kind of my, you know, my segue into the

FFA is we're going to do this pilot and I'm going to go to the,

you know, the DC, talk to the national, you know,

organization and go, hey, you have 8,600

chapters. Sprinkled around the US. You know, of course,

for myself, I would like to sell them 8,600 units.

Yeah, but at least let's get it out there. And you know what I—

what, you know, some of the kind of the darker

aspects of what I've learned. So for example,

pre-pandemic, there was roughly 690 million people going to

bed hungry every night. Now that number's 820.

Wow. Of that 820, roughly 40

million are right here in the US of A.

Of that 40 million, 13 million are kids

to mostly single mothers. One of our other

pilots, we're talking to the Navajo Nation because

unfortunately, you know, it's not in any history

books that I ever read growing up, but, you know, We came,

we took the best land because that's where the

Native American was habitating and said, hey, go to

Northern Arizona where there's no water and there's no soil

and you guys live here. Well, believe it or not, you know,

like there are communities within the Navajo Nation today that

don't have access to fresh water. Now that just— Wow. That

makes me mad. Right. And so, you

say, hey, if you had— here's how the math

works with our system. If you had 8 of those shipping containers,

8 by 20, if you had 8 of them, we can feed a family of

100 for a year with healthy

calories. So— What kind of crops are you growing? So,

we're growing super nutritious leafy greens, right? We

got the rainbow chard, the mustard greens, You know,

in Africa or outside of the US, a lot of

the world eats dandelion because it's like

kale on steroids, right? Super healthy. Yeah. Well, what did we

do here in the US? We made a weed killer for it, right? So,

not that smart. But so, that's why, you know, I've

been engaging, you know, part of this 2-year run I'm on is talking to

like the World Food Program, Action Against Hunger, Feed

America, Because they're the ones that are going to

purchase our product and deploy to, you

know, those underserved communities throughout the world. But we have

them again, we have them right here in the US. Yeah. And so, you

know, your urban planners, your city planners, community

gardens. Now, you know, when, when city planners,

urban planners are like mapping out growth,

they are in fact putting gardens on the map. And so

it's like, hey, drop one of these in here. And then you

can, you know, an inherent attribute

to our system is whoever's kind of the

steward or the farmer of the system can now

become an entrepreneur. For example, if I were to tell

someone in Kenya, okay, we're going to teach you

educate you, service and support you,

and you're going to grow 1,700 heads of lettuce every

60 days. You only need so much for your family. So

what are you going to do with the other output? Well, you're going to barter,

trade, sell, and you're going to raise your own economy

by participating in the farming of our system.

I think what's important also is it's a long game. And I think people

need to realize that because part of what you mentioned is the education process.

And also weaning people off these habits they have because they've been given

access to cheap food, cheap junk food, fast food.

And there's part of that is going to be,

maybe it's a new generation, but just teaching people healthy eating

habits because you could have the farm on site, you could have

it at a competitive price, and you could make sure that they

know that they have access to it, but they also have to believe that that's

something that they want. And so You know, it's an interesting challenge

that the industry is going to have because I think there's no shortage of projects

that are going to make this more accessible. It is education.

You do have to teach people how— the entrepreneurs in that cohort are going to

have to understand how to manage this, run a successful business, you know,

not go broke, not lose money, and also how to market it. And so

there's so many moving parts, but I think the education of

not only the people running these but also the You know, making

it sexy, I guess, you know, making produce sexy. I

don't know. Yeah. I mean, that's a challenge of itself, but I think you're right.

And I think, you know, if you look just for example, like how

the non-meat, the vegan industry, right? It's accelerating

right now. I mean, KFC is, I mean, is coming out with, you

know, meatless chicken, right? So I think

societally we are starting to realize like the

Gutbuster Mountain Dew, every day is going to

lead to diabetes. Yeah. It's going to lead to poor health.

You know, let's not, you know, but again, that comes at an early

age, right? That you got to teach kids like, hey, instead of,

you know, grabbing for a Coke, you need to be grabbing for just a

good old glass of water. Yeah. And if you want to eat

something, you know, here's, eat a piece of fruit and not

a Snickers bar. So I think that's happening at a very— it's

a low rumble right now, right? It's percolating.

But it's going to be key to, you know, as we move forward, for

kids to understand, like, hey, you know,

you can't just go plant some more food.

You know, you just can't, you know, that's not an

actual remedy to, you know, feeding.

And so what are the remedies? Well, vertical farming. And if you live in a

city and not far away from one of those behemoth

converted warehouses, you know, if you're kind of

out in, you know, out in the woods in Kentucky,

you know, for that family, you know, how are you going to feed

your kids healthy every night? How's that going to happen? Yeah, it

reminds me of the challenge when people talk about Broadband

access to everyone, fiber optics, there's always like that question about the last mile,

like how do you get into the household? And it feels like there's something

similar here, like to your point, you know, it's helpful to have

the awareness of having the big box, you know, vertical farms,

but they're likely making partnerships with supermarkets who traditionally have

not been in these areas. And so how do you, you know, there is a

hybrid solution here where you educate people and make it accessible. And I

think the more people in the community see like a family

member or see a neighbor, you know, express an interest in them or

purchase a vertical farm, you know, it's just like the curiosity effect. I think

building up curiosity around what's happening in this industry, I think, is really

helpful. And a younger generation, I think, sees vertical farming as something

cool. Like, you know, when I grew— when I lived in New York, it used

to be cool to have like a chicken coop in Brooklyn, right? Yeah, exactly. Or

on your roof, you know, and that was like, you know, something the hipsters did.

But now it's like, you know, maybe it's a vertical farm or maybe it's something

similar. And I think with the sort of— we got

awoken up, you know, the past 2 years with the pandemic and the

importance of this. And I think people are aware, it's top of mind, and they

are looking for alternative solutions. So, you know, I keep harping on this on every

episode, but the more people are talking about this, the more there's

different opportunities available. And I think what you're doing and the

partnerships and alliances you've built with some of these organizations, with the

university, and thinking bigger about going to DC and having those

conversations, I think is really important. Yeah. I mean, I'm excited.

I am, to be totally forthcoming. It's been—

when you talk to any philanthropic group

like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, there's a reason there's not a phone

number on their website. It's kind of the same with the World Health

Organization and Action Against Hunger. I mean, they,

they, you know, they're just a huge bureaucratic

machine. And so, you know, I continue to work myself up the

food chain, if you will, to the guy that's going to, you

know, take a hard look at our, at our product, try to understand,

you know, the methodology, how to implement. And those

relationships take time. And so we're really hoping, you

know, with these 3 pilots, you know, we're going to get some great

intel. You know, we're gonna have one in Phoenix, Arizona to

kind of mimic sub-Saharan Africa. So, you know, are we

watering those 1,700 plants, you know, 8 times

a day, or 15 times a day because it's

110 for 60 days in a row? And then what

plastic parts are problematic. And, you know, so we're going to get

some good intel from, you know, having those being

deployed. And then, you know, hopefully, like

I said, you know, this time next year, start, you know,

actually producing them and kind of getting them up out and rolling

into the communities, you know, here, here in afar.

That's gonna be exciting. A couple of questions as we wrap up. What's

a tough question you've had to ask yourself recently? So the—

so we have just started down the path of fundraising. Okay.

I've done all my appropriate SEC, state, and federal filings,

you know, to engage investors. So I'm definitely a

compliance-driven person. You know, I didn't want to get the cart

before the horse. And so for my potential investors here, and I've got

about 30 guys here in St. Louis that are, you know, some

percentage are going to help me. With this endeavor.

And so the biggest question has been, do you have a working

prototype? You know, guys want to kick the tires. Hey, I'll

give you some money, Dan, show me it working. So I

totally get that. And that's really been the— and we've just gotten to

that. So, you know, next week I'm going to take 15 guys

on a Wednesday and do my show and tell, if you will,

there at the working prototype here in San Luis. and then

15 more guys on Thursday because the only

component today that I can't buy off the shelf is the

actual grow tube. And the reason for that is because they're going to be

sitting out in the sub-Saharan sun,

so they have to be food-grade and they also have to be

UV resilient, right? Yeah. And so that

I can't buy today off the open market. So And to buy the

tool to make the tube is about $80,000.

But once I buy the tool, I own the tool. Yeah. So

really the hardest part has been, well, the

hardest questions, the hardest one's been from my wife.

Like, hey, when are you going to make some money? Yeah.

Because I've been self-funding for 2 years

now. So Thankful for her and her support,

for sure. And then the other one's like, hey, when you got to have a

working prototype? You got to you got to show us. You know, you

can look at this amazing little 45-second video I

have of the kind of the system, which looks great

and is very you know telling in the 45

seconds. But you know again, it doesn't prove to

a potential investor that. hey, this is a viable

product. So yeah, I think having them on the ground

kicking the tires and, uh, you know, working with what you have

and being able to touch it, I think, really puts

the real use case in front of their eyes and they can see the application

of it. And then having you describe how it's going to work. So maybe just

related to that, since you have the stage, is, is there an ask of this

audience that you have? Well, so I would first

just steer them towards my website, which is

verticalgrowth.farm and just see, you know,

what we're trying to get to. And then, yes, I mean, you can

reach out to me if there's any interest in investing.

You know, my website has my email address on there. Please feel

free. We really feel we've got a game changer because

first of all, those 2 other kind of competitive

products, they start about $72,000. And kind of,

you know, if you add kind of the bells and whistles, it starts creeping

up just like Freight Farms. You can get the basic model like you buy a

car, right? Yeah. Our model is going to be right about

$40,000. Okay. And so, you know, we're

excited about the price point entry into the market. And,

you know, my thanks to you is, you know, I want to— I've got to—

I'm kind of in that, hey, let's start putting it out to the world.

And kind of see what we, what we, you know, feedback we get back from

our efforts. So, and today the most important thing is, you know,

funding. You can, you know, every, everything needs funding.

Yeah. The good thing is that even with the, the

visibility of the bigger names coming in, the VC money coming in, it still like

creates that buzz so that other investors who are not at that level and,

you know, maybe speaking to some of the folks that you have locally, I think

they see it, they, probably not ready to play at that space, but they know

someone personally that's doing something. So they're like, well, the market is

validating that this is a— there's a lot of movement here in a positive

direction, I think. So that sort of, I would think, helps your case as well

because they're like, okay, tangentially they see, okay, this is part of that wave

and I want to, you know, get in on the ground level and this might

be a good opportunity. No, I think it is just that. So we've taken on

some investors. We just started taking on investors about 3 weeks

ago. And, you know, they're personal friends. I've known

them 21 years. They're all local people. And they're, you

know, so I've got 5 investors. 3 of them are

just really into it for the purpose of it, right? So that's your

social impact investor. They're not really in it. I mean, they

want a return, but they're doing it because they know

the world needs help and this can help the world. Yeah. And then

you have, You know, a couple of them are like, yeah, this is pretty amazing.

And there's a lot of money in the space to be made. And

you're early into the space. We want to kind of ride

those coattails. And I think both are equally

valid, of course. But we're definitely going to be more of the social

impact investor. I mean, we're going to, you know, if you look at our

financial projections, we're at about $80 million 7 years from now.

Again, at $0.59, you know, I'm going to exit. We think we

can take that, you know, stock— the stock today is

being offered at $0.80. I think 7 years it could be

$8 to $10. Of course, that's all speculation,

right? I mean, that's the truth of it. But I think a

majority of our investors are going to be that, that,

you know, social impact, you know, like, hey, this is really a good thing.

And it's going to do a lot of good. How can I help support it?

Yeah. Well, Dana, for the listeners' benefit, we connected on

originally LinkedIn, right? It was. So

thanks for making that outreach. And there's so much happening in the space. As much

as I'd like to think I'm on top of everything that's happening, I love like

just one-off emails from folks that are doing interesting

things. And so I'm glad you were persistent in sharing what

you have working on. And I think it's that entrepreneurial spirit that you have that

you just You got to do whatever it takes to get the

word out when you're self-funded and you're bootstrapped, which I can definitely relate to as

an entrepreneur myself. Yeah, for sure. And I'll tell you how I found

you on LinkedIn. I literally Googled, like,

who's the lead podcaster in vertical farming?

And there you are, Duncan. It's like, okay, who is

this guy? Started hunting him down. And I certainly

appreciate your efforts on my behalf. You know,

it's a, life's a journey and, you know, we're, we're all interconnected.

So, you know, if you're not doing good, I'm probably not gonna do good either.

So I, I really believe in that. Yeah. There is a rising

tide lifts all boats aspect to this, which I think is helpful. Yeah,

absolutely. So verticalgrowth.farm.

Yep. Yep. .farm, which is a great URL by the way. So congratulations on snagging

that. That's a nice one. And so we'll have links, obviously any

resources that were mentioned here, we'll pull them together in the show notes. As well.

And the contact information to reach out to you is on the site as well?

Absolutely. Okay, well, I appreciate you sharing your story and your

entrepreneurial journey and everything you're doing for the vertical farming community.

I think it's really inspiring and hopefully gets other folks inspired to

understand that you don't need a tremendous investment and there's room

for, for you if you're just looking to get your feet wet, just get started.

And I think this would be a good resource to check out. Absolutely.

Thanks again for your time, Dan. Thanks, Harry, and, uh, Happy New Year to you

and yours. Wish you, uh, you know, all the health, right? Stay

healthy and, uh, and enjoy the Midwest

as much as one can. I will. Take care.

Thanks again to Dan Drew for coming on the show and sharing his story. As

always, full show notes available at verticalfarmingpodcast.com. Thanks to

our season 4 title sponsor, Cultivated. If you're looking for a vertical farm and don't

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