Aaron invites listeners into a quiet inner space where uncertainty is no longer something to overcome, but something to notice and meet with care. Through personal reflection and thoughtful inquiry, the episode explores how uncertainty shapes our sense of self, revealing the ways we cling to certainty for safety and how that grip can quietly limit us. Rather than offering guidance or resolution, the reflection lingers with questions of identity, creativity, and courage, suggesting that uncertainty may be the very condition that allows us to choose who we are becoming. This is an invitation to pause at the edge of what cannot be known, to soften our resistance, and to consider how we show up when the future offers no guarantees.

Key Takeaways:

1. An exploration of uncertainty as a constant condition of human life rather than an interruption.
2. A personal story of standing at a life crossroads and the paralysis that certainty-seeking can create.
3. The idea that creativity depends on uncertainty and cannot exist without it.
4. A reframing of courage as curiosity applied in moments of resistance.
5. An invitation to define identity not by outcomes, but by character and presence in uncertain times.

About Aaron:

Aaron Tabacco, PhD, has spent more than thirty years guiding people through growth and change, often in complex and high-stakes environments. He currently serves as Director of Staff Experience for a major academic medical university. With a background spanning nursing, neuroscience, education, coaching, and mediation, his work centers on helping individuals and organizations navigate identity, connection, and transformation with greater clarity and care.

Known for his grounded presence and compassionate communication, Aaron works with staff leaders, clinicians, faculty, executives, and senior leaders across healthcare and other industries. His approach integrates relational depth, reflective practice, and a commitment to creating more humane, integrated ways of working and living. He lives in Vancouver, Washington, where he continues a lifelong engagement with writing, music, and the landscapes of the Pacific Northwest alongside his husband and three adult sons.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaron-tabacco-phd-83359b9/

https://lucusgroup.com/home

https://substack.com/@aarontabacco?r=b5ap9&utm_medium=ios

https://www.youtube.com/@CirclesEdges

Email: aaron@circlesedges.org

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Our lives. Move in patterns, things. We repeat things. We return to rituals, stories, people and places, the familiar cycles we experience as our sign posts, our stations of attention, and then sometimes we awaken more fully to these patterns, reaching a moment that asks something of us, a boundary with an invitation to turn those lines into thresholds of growth and transformation. I am Aaron Tabacco here again with you tonight. You're listening to Circles | Edges.

Good evening and good wishes, my friends. I'm so pleased that we get to spend time together again this evening. A lot has happened in the last couple of weeks since we got together for our first broadcast of circle's edges. Hundreds of you have tuned in to this little show, literally from all over the world, and it's incredibly humbling and satisfying to know that there are other like minded people out there in the world, many of whom may also be struggling with a lot of things going on in the world right now, and may be finding that a little company in the evening time is really welcome. So thank you for being here. We did a pretty deep dive into masks in that first session together. Tonight, I want to build on that a little bit, taking us into yet another internal circle we experience in our lives, very commonly. I'm going to start out this evening by taking us into a little bit of my past.

Yet again, I suppose it's helpful to share my own stories so that we get to know each other just a little bit better. But about 16 years ago, I was experiencing in my life a huge crossroads, the kind of life change decision making and lacking clarity that can absolutely cripple almost any of us when these moments show up in our lives, and it became really stuck in the uncertainty of it all, the variables of possible outcomes were very wide to consider, and I found that incredibly overwhelming. It could mean losing so much of what was valuable to me in my life, in terms of relationships and people, my own identity in the world, and as I considered the path forward for myself, it became evident that the uncertainty was something that was really impacting my ability to take forward steps, and so like many of us, I tried to meet that uncertainty by beating it into the ground with some kind of certainty In my mind and in my behavior that took a path of anticipating fully a singular story about what the outcomes of this life decision would look like, an absolutely terrifying, inflexible, not even glass, half empty glass, all empty viewpoint of what the future would hold if I made the wrong choice.

Trying to take something that uncertain and make it certain had this interesting duality of making me both feel good in some ways, and holding me hostage in so many others, it wasn't possible to move forward in that state of dealing with the unknown. I tried to deal with that on my own for quite a long time. I. Until I simply couldn't anymore and had to reach out and thankfully connect with a very trusted and knowledgeable friend who was able to help me clarify a few things and realize that the story I was telling was only one probable or possible story, not even a very likely story, but that there were other options or other possibilities available to me. One of these days, I might break all of that down into a deeper narrative for you, filling you in on all the ins and outs of what that experience was like. But I wonder if it's kind of something you can relate to. I'm curious about the uncertainties you've faced, or maybe you're facing right now, and what what those have felt like. You know, which of them have had the deepest impact on you? Where did you even become aware of how to respond to uncertainty?

And I'm wondering if you, like me, have sometimes found yourself being surprised by your responses to the unknown or maybe even unknowable. A few years ago, I started following on LinkedIn an incredible speaker and writer and thinker named Julia deganji. Dr Julia deganji is a neuropsychologist. And a couple of years ago, published an incredible book called energy rising, which has to do with the neuroscience of our own emotion and how it shows up in our lives, particularly in the context of leadership in the world, whether that's the workplace or in some community setting, but at one point, I remember reading that Julia wrote very astutely. We think the answer to uncertainty is certainty. And while there's more she wrote that we'll get to in a little bit, I just want to start there. As we're all arriving today, we think the answer to uncertainty is certainty. So if you're ready to jump into that inner circle, our relationship with uncertainty inside of ourselves. Tonight, I invite you to get very comfortable wherever you may be, sitting down, laying down, lighting a candle, turning on your lamp, sipping your tea. However you're showing up tonight, let's take a deep breath and jump in, jumping into the ring with uncertainty.

I feel very sure that I do not need to tell anyone listening to this, that the degree of uncertainty in the world around us right now is in my 53 years of life, greater than anything else I have ever experienced before. The types of uncertainties are so widespread and they seem so weighty, and yet uncertainty has always been a major fact of everyday life. It isn't something that is intermittent, even if it feels like it is. Uncertainty is the very nature of what it is like to live as a human being, conscious and aware of the world around us. I think, if anything, the illusion is actually certainty. Certainty is a story we make up to try and put us into a position where the unknown feels less crushing. And I would say many of us have been raised in a situation, a culture, family, a society where our relationship to uncertainty feels very adversarial. In fact. It's that observation that's leading me to title this episode of the broadcast in the ring with uncertainty. You know the ring being a reference to some sort of martial arts type ring, something we hop into gird our loins to experience and try to defend ourselves against this unknown future that could certainly be brilliant, but in our sort of hind brain mentality, very often, for many of us, leads us to look at it with skepticism at best and outright fear at worst.

But I wonder what you would like your relationship with uncertainty to be. I know for me, there were periods of my life where it honestly became exhausting and my relationship to uncertainty felt very defeating, while I personally do not ascribe to a particular religious or spiritual community or theology. You'll often hear me as we talk reference different ideas from many traditions, but Buddhism is coming to mind right now because I remember taking, you know, some courses at university during my undergraduate years around comparative religion and philosophy, of course, trying to get a sense of the wider world and a deeper understanding of the belief systems of people that are my neighbors. I always found the Buddhist engagement with uncertainty to be intriguing, this idea of being so fully in the present moment that you could allow things to unfold very organically and simply around us. We didn't have to necessarily react to everything or engage our minds and focus on being obsessed with the future as it was unfolding, this wrestling that we do with trying to understand what's coming at us.

While I found that to be interesting. I also wondered how it was even possible, because as a human, I can't help but reflect on the past, take account of the present, and want to direct myself toward a future where I feel safe and strong and capable. While I appreciated the concepts of detachment and openness, it felt like it was unattainable for me to incorporate those pieces into my life and thrive in a constant state of uncertainty, we have become very adept at creating the illusion of certainty, because the factors of change in our everyday lives are, generally speaking, relatively Small or distant. It can appear that so many things are predictable, so many things can be counted on, so many things are not going to change right away, and if they do, we'll be able to see them coming. But of course, it only takes one experience with some completely unanticipated circumstance or event or outcome to remind us that in fact, uncertainty is always the truth of what it is like to live our human lives, And that all the stock we have put into knowing everything around us, protecting ourselves, preparing for everything, just can't possibly cover every situation that comes at us in the world because of Our attachment to things as they are. We very often fight against, sometimes very significantly, with our behaviors, the threat of uncertainty. And I wonder what it looks like for you. Does it look like it did for me, trying to make everything certain? I.

Making up stories about people and situations and outcomes, just so I have something solid I can grasp onto or could grasp onto in those years. Does it look like micromanaging the people around you, hyper vigilance? Does it look like withdraw isolation, keeping yourself out of the ring of any kind of uncertainty, because it's so uncomfortable. Does it look like cutting yourself off from relationships? Does it look like following a crowd of people that seem so confident that you're just willing to abdicate any personal choice or belief or thought of the matter and just go where it seems the majority of people are walking because that just seems so much easier than dealing with the fact that maybe nobody else knows any more certainly than you do what is to come or how we should approach a situation. I would genuinely, genuinely love to hear from you, if you can reach out to me after listening to this, sharing your stories and thoughts about your experiences with uncertainty, what makes it feel bearable, how it's injured you, how your response to uncertainty keeps you from feeling fulfilled or connected.

Because I know I'm not alone in all of this, and I want you to know you're not alone in all of that as well. But now that we're spending a little bit of time, you know, in this circle, this cycle that we go through of constantly facing uncertainty and having to navigate our way through it, I want to share where I've grown. This is where we find the edges. Uncertainty does not have to be something of an adversary to us. In fact, uncertainty is useful and it's necessary because it invites us to decide who we are and to claim our autonomy, our freedom, if you really deeply think about it, uncertainty is also the condition that is required to enact creativity. Let that sink in for a moment.

Creativity is one of the hallmarks, the most important birth rights we have received as human beings, the ability to create something, to generate something that doesn't exist or didn't exist before that moment could be something as simple as deciding what to have For breakfast, among several options could be as grand as writing a novel could be as useful and utilitarian as piloting the projects you have at work on your plate, figuring out how to implement the directives you've been given. We're inherently creative beings as humans. In fact, it's impossible for us not to create on a daily basis, multiple times a day, as we navigate our way through life. But what allows that to happen is the state of uncertainty. If we knew everything for certain, there would be no need to make a decision about what to do next, how to implement it, how to design it, how to approach it, to try something new, to try something intuitive, to try something spiritually fulfilling, to try doing things that you can't yet see a rationale for. But deeply inside you think, yes, I need to manifest this. Let's see where it goes. I think, my friends, that is where we land in the circle right now, at the very edge of the opportunities and invitations that are inherently a part of what uncertainty brings to us.

So I want to bring us back to Julia de Ganges. Very interesting quote that I started the episode with. We think the answer to uncertainty is certainty, but she goes on to say, the answer to uncertainty is not certainty. The answer to uncertainty is identity. Who, when the world around us feels uncertain, do I say I am, and that teaching of hers, I have found to be so profound, so shaping and so helpful. It gives me so much more a sense of power, because when I step back, I realize there is absolutely, of course, no way to predict what any creative act we might make. However we exercise our autonomy in the situation of uncertainty we face, we have no idea where that will lead, but that is where uncertainty invites us to define our character, to refine our character, to break our unhealthy, potentially limiting ways. We face uncertainty in everyday life by jumping into our higher selves, the people we aspire to be, the people we show up in the world for, in community, in compassion, in service, in presence. The entire world can feel so dark around us. It can feel so easy to surrender to that uncertainty.

I know it's what keeps me up at night, often right now, I know it is that uncertainty in that darkness that led me to create this radio program or podcast. I had to do something to show up in the world and bring us together in defiance of that darkness, the uncertainty has called me to remind myself, who do I say I am? So I'm putting that out to you now in the midst of all of your individual uncertainties, whatever they may be, my guess is they are many. Who do you say you are? I know I shared in the first episode that I truly felt, and I do truly believe this, that we need you, that the whole world needs who you are authentically in in your most real, highest capacity, that we all need you to show up the people who are closest to you in your life, your community, your Family, the people you associate with on a daily basis. Need you, your Higher Self, your unique creativity, your individual gifts, and it's actually your relationship with uncertainty that can make a difference in all of this. And I said earlier that there's a lot of different options, and I'm sure there's more options than I even listed around the ways we try and deal with uncertainty by making things certain, and some of those, frankly, can be very dangerous to us In the rest of the world, following the crowd mentality, putting on masks that try to hide your fear behind some sort of false strength, isolating yourself from the world and the people around you, bottling up your emotions, your thoughts, your ideas, shrinking in the face of the opportunities that are there.

And it's all so understandable. I know I have felt so much overwhelm in the face of the unknown at pretty cute. Times in my life that while I will never pretend to know what it is like for you, I do know what the feeling of that much weight is like on my shoulders, and I can really relate to the numbers of ways in which we try to cope with the fact that certainty is almost always an illusion. So wherever you are in your practice right now of figuring out how to deal with the edges that are there for you in your relationship with uncertainty, you belong here? You're safe here. You're accepted here. And I hope that you can find some strength in moving forward to redefine your relationship with uncertainty, if in fact, it is one that feels overwhelming and adversarial, and if the answer to uncertainty is identity, then, as I've said, the invitation of uncertainty is Creativity, and that creativity offers us an opportunity to grow, to elevate ourselves and others through our character. It does take courage to do that. We could probably do an entire episode on what cycles or circles are inherent in the process of enacting our own courage in the world, and I don't want to take us down that path today, but I do want to share my definition of courage, because I Think courage, creativity, character and uncertainty have a very interesting overlapping relationship. I was actually asked about courage once, as a guest on another person's podcast, was asked to define what courage meant to me, and I gave it a lot of deep thought. Thankfully, the question was offered ahead of time so I could give a really substantive, authentic and personal answer. And I did not take the assignment lightly.

So I reflected deeply on all of the periods of time and all of the circumstances that either I look back and felt that how I behaved was courageous, or that I received feedback from the people in the world around me that how I behaved was courageous, and as I really thought about it, What I came to understand was that for me, Courage boils down to applying curiosity in the face of resistance. Applying curiosity in the face of resistance, that could be internal resistance, something we don't want to acknowledge in ourselves, a truth we're fighting against, an internal struggle. Or could be external resistance, something happening in the world around us, relationally, socially, culturally, politically. So for me, courage is really about being curious in those moments, in those spaces, wondering what might happen if I try this, which is inherently creativity. How can I create something new in this moment where everything feels unknowable, uncertain, unpredictable, let's try something else. I wonder what will happen. I really believe that the degree to which we allow ourselves to apprehend or to see the truth of uncertainty of our lives and the world around us is something very important, and that's when we find our edge, when our when our willingness to See the world as it is as it really is, meets our willingness to accept that truth. That's where we can come to life and exercise our fullest selfhood,

the point where we can choose to act even when we don't know how. Yet to act. Uncertainty invites us to decide who we are, like I said earlier, I think it allows us to claim our autonomy or to abandon it entirely. The choice really is always ours. But again, I think that comes back to the reframing I'm offering of uncertainty as a gift, as useful, as necessary, as a partner. I have always loved the idea that some big, unpleasant experience in life, whether it's something like uncertainty for for many of us, we would label that unpleasant, or whether it's a big emotion like grief or sorrow, that Instead of boxing with it in a ring or becoming adversarial in some other metaphorical way with it that we can instead recognize when it's knocking on our figurative doors, and instead of shouting at it to go away or hiding behind a wall, pretending you're not home, to walk up to the door, open it and greet greet it like a friend, invite uncertainty in and Sit down and have a conversation with it and explore with uncertainty, what it's inviting you to embrace this time. It probably is something requiring the courage to be creative, the ability to be curious about yourself in a situation and to open yourself up to possibility. I hope that doesn't sound aspirational or Pollyanna ish, these are not easy practices, but the edges of our creativity and our autonomy rest right there in that circle of constantly presenting uncertainty. And that's my invitation to us all tonight to really take a deep look at that edge and decide what we want our relationship with uncertainty to be so we can, in fact, show up autonomously, expressing our freedoms to be creative and unique and helpful In the world, to combine our lights in the face of all this darkness and this great unknown that is unfurling all around us, and decide right now Who we are in the face of all of that.

I now that we have moved past the initial kickoff phase of circles, edges, radio, I'm pleased to introduce a brief new segment to the show that will become part of our ritual of gathering when we're together. You have to bear with me, because I'm calling it circling back. And for those of us who spend a lot of time every day in the business world, we kind of hear that phrase and roll our eyes a little bit as it's become such a cliche in our everyday work speak, but I want to reclaim that here in this segment, I want to circle back to each of you Who's reached out and maybe shared thoughts that have come to you from listening into the show to share, of course, with your permission, a story you'd like to be witnessed or heard, to bring your observations out into The world and this new community we're forming together, of wakeful non sleepers who are finding our way toward a peaceful night of rest. So make a mental note that going forward you. Then reach out to me directly at this email.

It's Aaron, double A R O N at circles edges.org. Again, that's double A R O N at circles edges.org tonight, as we're circling back, folks who've reached out after the trailer or episode one, I appreciate you all so much. Like I said at the very beginning, hundreds and hundreds of you from the United States, my old stomping grounds for several years of England and the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada, Germany, Ireland, oh, my heart. The Netherlands, France, new friends in India, Spain, Austria, Denmark, Finland. Hong Kong, Mexico, New Zealand, Belgium, Israel, Japan, Portugal, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan and Thailand. Welcome here. I so deeply appreciate your presence, your friendship, and I'm just grateful for the kindnesses you're offering me in this service we're crafting together. Sending a special shout out tonight to Kevin in Ohio, who reached out and said, thank you for bringing back the radio analog with such humanity and honesty in the time of the internet, I am truly touched to be fully present with you and take part in this personal journey.

Kevin, thank you for bringing your presence here with the rest of us, for my friends in Ireland who reached out to share their well wishes and their gratitude to my local friends up in the Seattle area, who mentioned that they were able to fall asleep with a much reduced blood pressure, and to a dear friend, Karen, who felt that she drifted off peacefully with the first half and was able to get back to sleep at 4am with the rest of it. I'm truly delighted, and I'm so thankful for your companionship in this journey. So my friends, if you have thoughts that came up for you about masks, if you have thoughts that have come up for you tonight about your own relationship with uncertainty, maybe questions or stories you want to share. Reach out to me via email, and we'll talk about it. We'll see if it would make sense to maybe presence your story here with us in some way during this segment on our next show.

Okay, dear ones, it's time for me to get myself to bed, blow out my candle, drop off my empty tea cup in the sink, and lean into my own thoughts about each of you and our connection, This new friendship we're creating together, and hopefully you find a nice and peaceful sleep. I'd like to call your attention again to an incredible resource I mentioned earlier when I presenced my colleague and friend, Julia deganji. If you're interested in her work, I really want to encourage you to consider getting her book energy rising the neuroscience of leading with emotional power, while certainly marketed toward the business world, I have to tell you its applicability to all of us is equally strong. And just to say it, this is not some sort of paid advertisement. Dr Julia has no idea I was promoting her book on the show, and I'm not seeking anything for it. I just want you to know about the things that I find in. Are truly powerful and helpful in the world. And I have recommended this book to all of the people in my sphere the last couple of years that have like me, at times, struggled with how to channel our own emotional energy.

So I leave you with that a good book reference for the coming weeks ahead and this very uncertain time we find ourselves waking up to every morning for a little bit of last light. I want to leave you with a thought once again, from a favorite person I've mentioned before, already on the show, the American Buddhist nun Pema Chodron and her many writings. From now on, you're going to hear me refer to refer to her as Auntie Pema, because that's what I call her, having saved my bacon, saved my soul. It feels like so many times over the years, but this little thought relates so much to our relationship with uncertainty. She writes, we think that the point is to pass the test or overcome the problem, but the truth is that things don't really get solved. They come together and they fall apart, then they come together again and fall apart again. It's just like that. The healing comes from letting there be room for all of this to happen, room for grief, for relief, for misery, for joy. Take good care everyone. I look forward to reuniting with you again in a couple of weeks for our third broadcast of circle's edges, where we continue looking at one more of the many inner circles we experience in our Internal lives. Until then, good wishes and a good night.