Brian and John welcome their first guest, Bill Bergofin, Head of Marketing & Creative at the YES Network. Bill talks to the guys about the big moves and decisions from his sports marketing career. “Ties and no playoffs” aside, Bill also shares the story behind the epic Ted Lasso campaign at NBC Sports. The guys also discuss the evolving sports viewing experience landscape.

Key topics & chapter markers 

(00:00) Granola status check

(01:55) Snap Decision – John: Sports Altcasts

(07:00) Welcome, Bill Bergofin!

(11:39) Pivotal career moments

(15:59) Launching the Premier League and a new sports day part

(19:23) The last piece of the pie: Ted Lasso

(31:36) Ted Lasso has legs

(38:09) Mike Tyson and John Kruk: What could go wrong?

(41:10) Dear Hopelessly Unattainable Guest (John’s version)

Connect with Brian and John on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianmarks13/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-l-young/

All right, John, we're back, back again.

2

How you feeling about granola?

3

Seriously, ? You mean my, my rant

about granola stuck in your, stuck

4

in your head since we, uh, left.

5

Yeah.

6

Yeah.

7

I was concerned about you.

8

Everything, everything all right

in the granola front these days.

9

Yeah.

10

I, I think it's worked out.

11

You know what I've, I've got some

feedback after that first episode

12

where I had my little granola rant.

13

A couple people wanted to

know whats complaining about.

14

I was adopting the Charles Barkley

mentality, which I've heard him talk

15

about, which is no free pub man.

16

But you know what?

17

I'll mention the brand.

18

It was Cascadian Farms.

19

I'm telling you this as a way to

invite them to come, kinda maybe

20

share their point of view about what

went into the decisions they made

21

to put less product into a crappier

package and charge more money.

22

They probably have a reason for

it, and I would encourage them

23

to join us and talk about it.

24

Let's go nuts, physically almonds.

25

And you know, Brian, I think it'd be great

if, uh, anyone who hears this podcast

26

would share with us a recommendation for

an expert who can talk to us about either

27

shrink deflation or Skimm ifl, or both.

28

I'd love to.

29

I'd love to dedicate some time to that.

30

Yeah.

31

Even having to market a product that

maybe isn't necessarily moving its way

32

forward the way that you'd want to.

33

Yeah.

34

So.

35

I'm sure, I'm sure people had

good reasons for making their snap

36

decisions about, you know, their

products because that's what this,

37

that's what this podcast is all about.

38

Right.

39

We're, we're here to give a little

behind the scenes look at some of

40

those decisions that define how

products and brands and people present

41

themselves, the world, and the people

that are buying those big decisions.

42

So I'm excited for our

first big interview today.

43

Nice.

44

Can't wait to talk to

you with Bill Bergen.

45

He's a huge COA fan of her.

46

Yeah.

47

Well, so before we talk to Bill,

why don't we get into a quick Snap

48

decision and what do you got for us?

49

I got something for you Brian, and

I know you're a sports fan, so I've

50

noticed obviously there's been a lot

of these kind of alt casts, right?

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So where there's a main broadcast

going on, on one network, uh,

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sister Network is carrying like

the Manning Brothers offering

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commentary during a football game.

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So there are some new wrinkles

happening in that alt cast universe

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that I think have really, that

really caught my attention.

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So at the end of the baseball season

in September, the Tampa Bay Rays, uh,

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in Major League Baseball faced the Los

Angeles Angels at Tropic on a field,

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and fans had the option to watch

that game as a real time animation.

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So kind of looking like a video game.

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And then starting in week four in

the NFL, the Jacksonville Jaguars.

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The Atlanta Falcons played

a game in London, right?

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A, B, C, Disney, AB, C.

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Recreated that game in real time and

had it take place in Andy's room.

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That setting from the Toy Story franchise.

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So all the action played out on

ESPN with toy Story characters

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replacing actual players.

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So again, it was simultaneous,

slight delay to the main telecast.

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You know, it just gave an entirely

different lens to an existing NFL game.

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My take is.

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That's probably gonna be great for

advertisers who are looking to try

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new things and experiment with,

you know, how they can stand out.

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Really a big part of this, you know,

the leagues have a strong desire to

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expand their fan bases and streaming

services, who carry these broadcasts

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are looking to drive subscriptions.

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I do wonder if, you know, at some point

there's some backlash with people who are

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just like, I, I just wanna watch the game.

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Don't, don't promote these

alternative experiences.

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I just wanna watch an actual football,

baseball, basketball, whatever game, but.

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It does seem like there's a lot

of innovation happening there.

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So Brian, I I want to ask you, are

these entirely alternative viewing

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experiences bad, or are they actually

the future of sports viewing?

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First of all, I can't help but think

of being in that creative pitch for

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the Toy Story Project . I know we've

both been in, in that room, and when

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the creative comes up with a fantastic

idea and gets shot down immediately,

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but, but this time they said yes.

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Yeah, they go for it.

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And he like, wait, what?

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Now we actually, to do this, we

have to, we have to animate an

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entire NFL game in real time.

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in Toy Story.

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So, uh, kudos to that guy, um, or gal.

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And that, uh, was kind of a

really neat and innovative way

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to, um, create an experience.

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You know, my take on this is that

we're gonna see more and more of,

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of this type of experience kind of

flex into, into watching sports.

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And as a marketer, I think that's

exciting 'cause people like to do

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things in a lot of different ways.

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And you have these different kinds of

segments of audiences, whether it's kids

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and Toy Story or the Nickelodeon stream.

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With the slime.

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The slime broadcasts.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And that, and some of that.

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They do like some more fundamental stuff

in teaching people how to watch the

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game and what it like, what it, what

the rules are and things like that.

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And then you have more of the kids in

their twenties or teenagers who might

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watch more of the alternative broadcasts,

which to me kind of reminds me of kids

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watching other people play video games.

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So people definitely interact

with content in different ways.

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Uh, the one place that I kind of get hung

up is like, yes, it gets people to, to

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watch and that will bring eyeballs, but

like, does that convert somebody into

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becoming a real fan and really paying

attention to what's going on instead of

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just kind of being part of an environment?

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That part I don't know about.

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I mean, those alt casts do have sort

of like a, a, some sort of semblance

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of gathering people together to

watch something, which is kind of

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like, you know, us getting together

with our buddies to watch a game.

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But I don't know if that converts people

to long-term, you know, viewers or fans.

119

But, um, it's certainly

some different, you know.

120

Yeah.

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Uh, you know, you touched

on a couple things there.

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One, you know, the Nickelodeon examples.

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I think a really good one.

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'cause like you said, it, it

kind of brought people along and

125

educated them on something that

maybe they don't really know.

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Quote, pound watch.

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So that does seem like a really

smart strategy to kind of bring

128

new viewers in, whether they

stick as a different question.

129

I also, as you were talking, I

wondered, man, what, uh, what about

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some of these, I mean, some of these

players, many of these players becoming

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kind of brands unto themselves.

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Within the game.

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And at some point, if there's certain,

if there's an alternative rendering

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of a player, do they start to get

pissed off that, Hey, wait, no, they,

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they, people are coming to watch me.

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Don't create an animated version

of me . It doesn't look like me.

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You know, I, I, I wonder if that's

a thing sometime down the road.

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We'll see.

139

Yeah.

140

I mean, I think this can go in a,

in a million different directions

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and it kind of already is, but.

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I do see more of like the opportunity

to kind of flex the experience with the

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type of layering and context that that

somebody wants, whether that's through

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like some sort of augmented reality or.

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VR or, or whatever.

146

It's kind of boundless.

147

So yeah, I guess that's exciting.

148

But we'll see.

149

Yeah, we'll see.

150

Lots, lots of implications, uh, to unfold

and I don't think we've seen kind of the

151

ultimate best use case for some of these

alternative things, but um, I'm sure we'll

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see plenty more of it before we're done.

153

Absolutely.

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And you know, speaking of getting fans

interested in sporting events, I'm

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just super pumped about speaking with

our first ever snap decisions guest.

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Woo hoo.

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Yeah.

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And he created the original character

of Ted Lasso in, in a series of

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commercials to get visibility

on soccer in the United States.

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When, uh, NBC got the, the rights

to the Premier League about a decade

161

ago, a team I coach, they're gonna

play hard for all four quarters.

162

Okay?

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Two Hobbs.

164

What's that?

165

Two Hoves.

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Okay.

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Halves.

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They're gonna play hard for two halves,

and we're gonna play till there's a

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winner and there's a loser or a tie.

170

What's that?

171

A tie.

172

Okay.

173

Till there's a winner, a

loser, or a tie you can tie.

174

If you tried to end a a game in

a tie in the United States, heck

175

that might be listed in Revelations

as the cause for the apocalypse.

176

Yeah.

177

Do we have any goals this season?

178

Absolutely.

179

We're gonna win a lot of games.

180

We're gonna get in the playoffs.

181

No playoffs.

182

There's no playoffs.

183

Again, my job has got a lot

easier ties and no playoffs.

184

If you watch Ted Lasso the TV show

storing Jason Sudeikis, that clip

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probably sounds a lot like the first

episode, but it was created six years

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before the show premiered on Apple Plus,

and it was part of the campaign you

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mentioned, which launched a whole new

sports viewing opportunity to Americans.

188

Brian, our guest today is

the guy behind that campaign.

189

He spent his whole career marketing sports

and he's really transformed which sports

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people watch and how they watch them.

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Bill Bergen is a senior marketing

executive who did something I didn't think

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was going to be possible in this country.

193

He got millions of people to watch

soccer footnote, not including me.

194

Yes, a huge part of that was the

Ted Lasso campaign for NBC sports.

195

But Bill has won a lot of awards to

prove that he's no one hit Wonder,

196

the Grand Prix Award at the Khan

International Festival for creativity.

197

Emmys Spro Max Awards, d and d

Pencils, cleos, and most importantly,

198

effies for Marketing Effectiveness,

including a Grand Effy nomination

199

for the success of that Premier

League campaign featuring Ted Lasso.

200

He's done it at Fox Sports NBC

Sports and Telemundo Deportes.

201

He's currently head of marketing

and creative for the YES Network.

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That's the Yankees Entertainment and

Sports Network, which was a pioneer in

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the concept of regional sports networks.

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Please say hello to Bill Bergen.

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Hello, hello?

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Thanks for joining us.

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It's great to be here.

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Yeah, indeed.

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Bill, really, really grateful

that you're able to join us.

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Yeah.

211

Bill, you know, we've been talking about

some of the unique and creative ways that

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brands and networks are trying to reach

people and audiences during live events,

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during these like tent pole events.

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And it's not just getting them to tune in,

but it's getting them to stay and there's

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so much noise and content out there.

216

How has that impacted your job

and how you engage audiences while

217

they're watching and, and overall.

218

It's, it's a great question, an amazing

challenge that, you know, goes well, well

219

beyond marketing content for that matter.

220

I think that the, the

tried and true still holds.

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We're storytellers.

222

We're, we're creating content.

223

Our job is to get people interested.

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I think the approach that

I've taken has always been one

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on a cultural level, right?

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So, so many people love sports.

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You know, we're very, I've been very

fortunate to have a product that people.

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Care greatly about, and a lot of

marketers start their career selling

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kitty litter, but I, I fortunately

didn't, didn't have to go through the,

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the subpoena and suffering of that.

231

I've always felt like incredible

storytelling will beget greater interest.

232

And a lot of it is, is finding those

points of being relatable without tripping

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that BSS third rail, um, which I think

a lot of advertising and promotion does.

234

It's just, you know, it's

either straight at it.

235

Okay.

236

If I'm a sports fan, I know why I

already wanna watch this particular game.

237

How do you, how do you change perceptions?

238

And so the, you know, the other piece

is, is, is technology, do you think

239

it's gonna continue to integrate itself

into the traditional broadcast, or do

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you think it'll stay kind of adjacent?

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Like, when I want it, I, I'll

get it, or, you know, do you

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see that stuff just kind of, I.

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Coming together even more?

244

No, I think it, I think it's

gonna come together more and

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more with the landscape changing.

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When you have people like Amazon and

Apple going after global rights of sports.

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I mean, they're tech companies,

they're just gonna reinvent

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the way people watch it.

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'cause they're not looking through

that traditional lens of the

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broadcast television trying to

figure out new ways to do what

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they've been doing one way forever.

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You've gotta deepen

that engagement, right?

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If you go to a actual game, most

people are sitting on their phones.

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What app are they pulling up?

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Well, boy, yeah.

256

Would it be great if the first app

that they open up is the S app?

257

Those are some of the things that

we're working with our partners on,

258

and to me, you know, that that level of

utility and and added experience will

259

make people who are not just users of

your product, but fans of your product.

260

Hey, bill, you've, you've really had

a fascinating career path, and we

261

won't ask you to kind of walk through

all of it, but you started in sports.

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You're still in sports because this

podcast is really focused on decisions

263

that people have made in their career.

264

Was there a pivotal moment in your

career development where you kind

265

of were really at a crossroad?

266

You had to kind of pick, uh, a, a

path from two divergent directions.

267

Actually, there's, there's one

really interesting work in the road.

268

We've all had them and, and you

have decisions to make and they,

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they alter the course of history.

270

Hopefully for the better.

271

Mine was, I, I had very early success.

272

Went from Madison Square Garden

to a sports marketing firm.

273

We were working in the Olympics

and World Cup and, and then I

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said, I'm either gonna go back to

school or I wanna work in a league.

275

Well, I got, I got in,

I got a job at the NFL.

276

I did not go to an Ivy League school

and felt, felt very fortunate.

277

Certainly earned my way there.

278

After a few years, I've like this

kinda like three to four year itch

279

in my career that, that I, you

know, feel like I have to dump

280

everything out and start over again.

281

They always said like, you have

one shot to leverage that shield.

282

To advance your career and I really

wanted to get into television and I had

283

two offers roughly about the same time.

284

One was at ABC Sports to be first

marketing manager that now defund, BCSI

285

killed many things in my career, even

before I got to work on it, if at all,

286

And the other was to go

launch Fox SportsNet Detroit.

287

And for any of you who have met

me, it was like my cousin Vinny

288

and I, I, I chose to go to Detroit.

289

Everyone thought I was nuts, as

opposed to walking down the street too.

290

66th West 77th Street in a BBC

sports' office at the time.

291

And my rationale for doing so was

there were two pieces to that.

292

One is I'd rather be the big

fish in a small pond and get that

293

experience than be able to parlay it.

294

The other was, the guy who was

hiring me was, yeah, I'd be reporting

295

to corporate, to Fox Sports.

296

He said, look, you'd do a great job

and the next job at corporate's,

297

yours for growing rapidly.

298

I said, how do I know I can trust you?

299

And he said, you're not

betting on me buddy.

300

Boy, you're betting on you.

301

Alright.

302

So, so got you.

303

Moved to not go with the, uh, the

big name brand job, but to something.

304

Unexpected and paid off for you?

305

Yeah, I, I would say, look, I mean,

Fox was still an amazing brand and I

306

think they were innovators at the time.

307

So to get, you know, be able to go out

and go to LA and be around them, you know,

308

just even the osmosis of some of the most

incredibly talented, creative people in

309

the industry, it was just phenomenal.

310

I just saw the other day, uh,

it's 30 years since they got

311

the NFL rights, which is insane.

312

Yeah.

313

Makes me feel old.

314

You know, Fox was on the forefront

of a lot of the modern marketing

315

stuff, so that, that's, uh,

that's a fascinating move.

316

How long did it take

you to get to corporate?

317

15 months.

318

Really?

319

Yes.

320

So yeah, we, we got up there.

321

We didn't unpack everything that

we brought because we knew either

322

this was gonna happen quick or we'd

be putting the cash back in the

323

Some people, some people just, you

know, move across the country from

324

New York to la Some people kind

of stop midway for 15 minutes.

325

, everyone always jokes

about the flyover states.

326

Well, you know what?

327

Most of America live in between,

uh, you know, the two beaches.

328

So, um, I, I, I found an invaluable

experience about how to market

329

to all different types of people.

330

Yeah, I'm gonna hold on to your,

uh, my cousin video reference

331

because I, I, I think that kind

of paints the picture for us.

332

. There were a lot of Utes there.

333

Ute, did you say Utes, another

interesting decision you made was

334

to go to an agency after that.

335

Can you tell us a little bit

about that and what some of the

336

big learnings from that was?

337

Box was really where I kind of made

that leap over to advertising and.

338

Working with the people who were

there, were all the people who created

339

the, this is SportsCenter campaign,

and our agency was Cliff Freeman

340

of partners and all the people.

341

There were the people who created,

worked, did all the Nike work and, and

342

ESPN work at, at, uh, you know, widen.

343

So I, you know, all of a sudden I'm

thrust into these brains and, and

344

creativity and strategy and things

that just like my head exploded.

345

And I found that most of the people I

really respected and, and I, you know.

346

Enjoyed working with, were,

were our agency partners and we

347

were doing like, just crazy work

and just groundbreaking stuff.

348

And again, was out there for

about four or five years.

349

We had our daughter and kind of felt

the pullback east and thought, well,

350

you know, let me, let me, uh, let

me give something else a shot here.

351

And, and ironically I was sort of like.

352

Maybe it's time to dip

outta sports for a minute.

353

Yeah.

354

Well, you, you know, you, you, you,

you've shared a couple instances where

355

you haven't been afraid to kind of

make a big shift or, or, you know,

356

jump into something different and new.

357

And one of the things that, uh, Brian

observed when we were getting ready

358

for you was, uh, the fact that you

helped create a whole new sports

359

day part with soccer when NBC Sports

brought the Premier League to the

360

network, and you did it by introducing

the world to a character and a couple

361

of long form promos named Ted Lasso.

362

Can you.

363

Tell us about the strategy you started

with before we get into how Ted lasso

364

the, the creative output came to pass.

365

What is the creative strategy

to launch that new day part?

366

Well, I, I, I think there are

a few things at play here, and

367

it goes back to risk taking.

368

If you remember, these rights were

acquired right after the merger

369

when Comcast acquired NBC Universal.

370

I got a new boss, so I had to

convince a guy that John, we both

371

know well, John Miller, that, that

I can take this and that we should,

372

shouldn't just, oh, we got this.

373

We can do this.

374

And the, the promo department

at NBC Sports could handle this.

375

And so first thing strategically

I did was put the right people

376

around the, the right problem.

377

I brought in a guy who actually was an

agency that I worked with for a long

378

time already, who said, if you ever get

the Premier League, I will do for free.

379

Did you catch that?

380

Uh, he exactly, he did not do it right.

381

But, uh, he, he was a, a Britt that

came over to America about 20 years

382

earlier, you know, for his adult career.

383

And so he was a Premier League fan

living in America, so who better?

384

And, and a, you know, one of

the great, great creatives

385

on the planet and strategist.

386

So the strategy, that was the first

step in having to sell that in, which

387

is a very funny story in and of itself.

388

Um, but ultimately the

strategy was a few fold.

389

One was how do we create a

tipping point through one?

390

The existing audience was there

because they were maniacal and ardent,

391

and influential, and affluent, and

a lot of those fun marketing words

392

were used, so we had to find them

and be able to really activate.

393

That Core two was if they're leaders,

then all their friends who see them

394

go off and get plowed on Saturday

mornings, uh, in their kids and then,

395

you know, somehow manage to find their

way to their own kids' soccer game.

396

You know, bring them along for

the rock and pull them in and

397

make it okay for them to come in.

398

And the last thing was, literally

the last thing was, alright, why

399

should people give a shit about it?

400

And what's, how do we get them over

the, the barrier of . I don't know

401

what I'm supposed to be watching.

402

Right.

403

And, and how to watch this and

it's okay not to know, which

404

is, that's a universal theme.

405

Right?

406

And, and that had to have been a, a big.

407

Hurdle would get over because

that's the only way you're

408

gonna get to a mass audience.

409

Correct.

410

But we actually started like surgically,

so the first thing was, is that real

411

Premier League fans, we were able

to find five markets where they were

412

just way over indexed in terms of

concentration so we could afford to go

413

in with the limited dollars that we had.

414

Second is, the first campaign was around.

415

The Britishness of it all.

416

Well, really the first part of the

campaign was that, that with getting

417

to the people every match, every

weekend online on TV n HD free, right?

418

Because they'd never had that before.

419

Second thing was, okay, how do we make

people look peer around the corner?

420

Because at the time it was Downton

Abbey and all these, uh, Peaky

421

Blinders and Britain culture

was just, you know, permeating.

422

So, you know, we tried to

really kind of play up the whole

423

Britishness of it, which I.

424

It was just smart cultural shift.

425

And then the last piece was,

okay, how do we get, how do we

426

take the piss out of ourselves

and that we're stupid American's?

427

'cause we don't understand

soccer and the rest of the world.

428

It seems to have figured it out.

429

Aha.

430

And that, that was literally the last

piece of the pie was, was Ted lasso.

431

And matter of fact, it, of all of

them, that was the one piece that

432

almost didn't happen about four

times for, for different reasons.

433

It just was a journey to get that thing.

434

But the gods were work hard to us.

435

They sure were.

436

And on that last part, you know,

the, the taking the piss outta

437

yourselves to use a British phrase,

you found a character or you created

438

a character that let people learn

about this game that they didn't know.

439

Enough about and gave them permission

to be, I guess as ignorant as Ted lasso

440

and come in cold and figure it out.

441

Can you tell us a little more about the,

kind of like the creative strategy of

442

how you kind of got to that point where

you had this character that was gonna

443

deliver all the, all the messages you need

to deliver to that, that mass audience?

444

I think this is also one where a little

bit of chaos theory, uh, mixed with

445

fate because we, we set out with that.

446

Strategy, but we actually were, and we

were gonna go with a fish outta water

447

character, but we actually started, we're

trying to bring a Britt over to America,

448

which I'm not sure would've worked.

449

But we started there.

450

We went to John Oliver first.

451

Um, and he couldn't do it because he

was on Comedy Central at that point.

452

And they said, we can't, he

would love to do this, but

453

he's got something big coming.

454

We can't tell you what it's, yeah.

455

And then now you have his HBO show, which.

456

Then we're like, all right, well let's,

let's see if there's someone in NBC.

457

'cause we're really trying to

make an SNL digital short, so

458

we wanna talk about branding.

459

We're trying to keep this also

in the NBC brand wheelhouse.

460

So we went to Seth Meyers, uh,

at the time, and he was SNL

461

and he was a big Westham fan.

462

Yeah, we did.

463

Who's, you know who, who's out

there, who's a Premier League fan.

464

He'd love to do it, but he's

got something big coming up and

465

we can't tell you where it's.

466

Right.

467

Okay.

468

So now who's next?

469

I think we went, we've talked about,

so you're good at spotting future

470

talk show is what you're telling us.

471

Well, well the weird fatalistic

thing as I go through it is like

472

everyone we approached, like had

this huge hit come out of it.

473

Now, did we have anything to do

with anything of the once before?

474

No.

475

It was probably dumb luck that.

476

Those were, those people weren't

available otherwise we would've probably

477

never gotten to Jasons who was fifth.

478

So there was Chris Pratt

in their Jurassic world.

479

but we were like toggling

between, you know, someone

480

coming here, someone going there.

481

We were just sort of like out of, out

of time, out of like, Ugh, okay, this

482

is the greatest idea, but who And

it, we literally had a tank talent

483

Wrangler in or guy and, and the

Brooklyn Brothers guy Barnett, who's

484

the creative I've mentioning before I

mention, Hey, we had a talent wrangler

485

who was approaching people in Hollywood.

486

You know, when we said, Hey, let's go

after them, let's you hire talent Ray.

487

She, uh, this woman ju Julie

Mulhall and just said, Hey, what

488

do you think about Jason Sude?

489

Because he's off of, I know he is off of

SNL and he doesn't seem to have anything

490

in the, in the hopper right this second.

491

And she had been free to his manager.

492

I guess that's how she knew it.

493

So it was said, alright, sure.

494

And we, you know, we, we approached him.

495

He came back and he had no, he

was not a soccer fan at all.

496

Didn't really matter, but he just

came back and said, and it was, I,

497

I'm pretty sure the character at

that point was like, named Ted Lasso.

498

We had, I have the

original script, which is.

499

It's, it's almost, I, you know, other than

some ad lib is pretty intact, uh, because

500

it was so designed to accomplish a goal.

501

Um, but he came back and said, you

know, can I see a few more ideas?

502

I like the idea of this.

503

So guy went and created a few more

characters and things, and then he said,

504

man, we'll stick with the original.

505

And then we, we got to a writer's

room with him and Brendan.

506

Uh, who's coach Beard and I, for me,

this was like amazing to be involved in,

507

in, in the creative soup of all of this.

508

Oh, so you were in that right.

509

It writer wrote, uh, to a degree.

510

I mean, I, I, I will, I mean, I certainly

had everything to do with scripts edits.

511

Certainly when we get to post.

512

Um, you know, it's fascinating to me

that, that you just said that, that the

513

original script was you basically produced

what was basically the original script.

514

I've heard you talk previously about,

you know, how amazing Sudeikis was

515

at improv doing the character, yet

the original script kind of survived.

516

Testament for guy was keeping, keeping the

train on the tracks where, where, where

517

Jason was amazing at improv and delivery

in each of these buckets that we wanted

518

to like, okay, let's teach him off sides.

519

If you go back there and watch the

original, how it's structured is we

520

went and shot these vignettes and then

went back and sat him down to explain

521

each one of them as they went along.

522

Got it.

523

It was, it was, you know, structured

in a, in a, in a, a really

524

interesting way to accomplish that.

525

And, and, and then from there,

you know, we got him to agree to

526

do it and then we, it was like.

527

June and the season

was starting in August.

528

And all the Premier League

clubs were all traveling to do

529

friendlies around the world.

530

So, you know, getting a, getting a club

to find a team that was even in town shoot

531

with was, was a challenge, let alone.

532

So you wanted to, you wanted to

depict Ted with an actual known

533

team, with players that people

would recognize and credibility.

534

Correct.

535

Otherwise, yeah, I think

it would've fallen down.

536

Someone would've done it.

537

I mean, there are others who would've

taken that path of, we've got a

538

cool idea, we've got a good talent,

uh, let's just fake the rest.

539

Uh, so.

540

I think credit to you and

the team for recognizing that

541

authenticity would carry the day.

542

I woke up on like a, a, a Sunday morning.

543

I remember in, in the

deadline had been last.

544

Thursday for Go.

545

No go.

546

And I just was not ready to give up.

547

I had been working with Tottenham,

matter of fact, guy's favorite team.

548

He, he was a Tottenham fan.

549

So John Miller, who is my boss, said,

you can use any club other than Tottenham

550

because you've put them in everything

so far because of great thanks,

551

And so I called Tottenham

literally on the Sunday.

552

I called their, their press guy.

553

I became, I became friendly with, um, and

said, is your first squad around on, uh,

554

you know, the couple next couple of weeks?

555

He's like, yeah, sure.

556

I'm like, all right.

557

So I had to go once again convince,

uh, that we, we were, you know.

558

It would be like, you know, creating an

NFL launch campaign and only doing it with

559

the, the, the jives or in case, right.

560

It would be a terrible, terrible idea.

561

I think that would be, I,

I, that's why I, I upped it.

562

I upped it to Eagles,

but, uh, there you go.

563

So what was the reaction

at NBC when they saw that?

564

The first set of commercials, I

don't know that anyone saw other

565

than me and my boss, John Miller.

566

I, it was amazing.

567

I had such amazing.

568

Trust and latitude now, uh, you know, it

was a few months into to working together.

569

We had my, the head of social media,

like waiting at one o'clock in the

570

morning to put this thing organically on

YouTube and we just, we just lobbed it

571

out there, no money behind it, nothing.

572

And then went to sleep and

woke up and we woke up.

573

There's already a million hits on it.

574

And then.

575

2012, a million hits in less than 24

hours on YouTube was, was not a common

576

occurrence as it is today, but you just

used the words trust and latitude and

577

some of the reasons you were able to

get that campaign produced in in market.

578

I think that is an amazing commentary

because you know the best things I've

579

ever produced Aim when I had trust and

latitude, and with that . Underneath that

580

is fewer people making big decisions.

581

So has that been sort of a, a consistent

thing in your career where some of your

582

best work has come when you've got that?

583

Oh, absolutely.

584

But I think one of the things that

I've, I've learned over time is, is how,

585

how do you navigate around that too?

586

Because you're not always gonna have it.

587

Bosses change, job new.

588

Yep.

589

Career moments.

590

So how, how do you take the formula

that you've made work in one place

591

that's earned you that trust and

latitude and, and, and effectively

592

sell it in sometimes unbeknownst to

the people you're selling it in on to.

593

Allow to do things.

594

So have you figured that out?

595

How, how did you sandbag

pack that code for us?

596

Sandbag, scare 'em with something

else, and then bring in, you know,

597

you gotta have the, the, what

do you call the stalking horse?

598

The, uh, straw.

599

The straw dogs.

600

Oh wow.

601

I mean, there's, there's a give

'em crap and then save it with

602

the thing you really wanna sell.

603

Boy, you gotta be ready to whatever

you put in front of anyone.

604

It's the, the, the catch 22 is,

uh, if you put something out,

605

you know, not everyone has.

606

The same sensibility you do.

607

But if you're gonna put something

out there for approval, you

608

better be ready to run it.

609

Look, you have a marketing

strategy for what it is you're

610

trying to sell to consumers.

611

Shouldn't you have a marketing

strategy to sell what you're trying

612

to get done internally as well?

613

Because again, not everyone's

gonna be expert marketers.

614

Not everybody's gonna see

it the way you see it.

615

So that starts months

and months in advance.

616

So when begin the briefing process

internally, that part of that process is

617

briefing in and getting consensus among.

618

The people who you need their support.

619

Yeah, and I love the, uh, you know

the part about it, it's okay to not

620

be the smartest guy about soccer, you

know, because you're leaning into an

621

angle that's gonna drive more people

to watch it and it's okay to watch it.

622

And I'm sure that kind of

resonated with them as well.

623

Just, you know, we're focused on

trying to bring more people in.

624

Who are the traditional people?

625

We have them covered too.

626

We're not gonna push them away, but we're

gonna open it up to be a bigger thing.

627

Right.

628

Well I think that's the other thing is

also setting a bar that's like ridiculous.

629

Right?

630

And, and let let people like kinda

look at you like you're crazy.

631

For me, what I said is, look, at the

time, MLS really hadn't established

632

itself yet as, as far as it's has today.

633

Premier League, regardless, I think

is the best elite play, and it's the

634

football for the rest of the world.

635

So I said that.

636

How do we make Premier League, the

NFL of real football in the United

637

States and people look like, well,

we have Sunday night football.

638

I said, well, we're gonna have

Saturday morning football.

639

Actually, I tried to sell in the

name of that and I couldn't because

640

of literally licensing rights for

ownership for Sunday night football.

641

They weren't comfortable

bumping up against it.

642

Actually, ES PN owns

that term, by the way.

643

That would've been fantastic.

644

I tried to sell it through.

645

They just, that, that's one where

you, they jump out and you take

646

these risks, but the whole idea

of aiming that high, I think.

647

Oh, LA gave us the

latitude to, to dream big.

648

You sure did.

649

And it, it paid off hearing.

650

You talk about the, the, the

process of getting the, the Ted

651

Lasso campaign off the ground.

652

You mentioned Jason Cus was choice.

653

I don't know if he knows that, but he

does now, if we send him this recording.

654

Uh, can you imagine someone else who

was higher up on your list inhabiting

655

the body of Ted Lasso at this point?

656

Well, I, I don't know that that

was each, each had a character

657

that was crafted to them, so I see.

658

There wouldn't have been,

there wouldn't have been.

659

He was Ted Lasso.

660

That was the character.

661

So you had, you had entirely different

campaign directions for the other talent.

662

Correct.

663

And I can't find those scripts anywhere.

664

Oh, God saved me.

665

But , um, uh.

666

So it'll have to remain an oral history.

667

You know, right now if somebody

at NBC is scrambling through the

668

servers to find those scripts to

, actually do a, a, a relaunch of the

669

Premier League for the next season.

670

Exactly.

671

Using exactly Chris Pratt

or, uh, John Oliver.

672

What a, what a like, merging of,

you know, the marketing side, the

673

agency side, and then the creative

talent that Sudeikis brought.

674

And, you know, putting all those

things together and, and the product.

675

Yeah.

676

And that could go in a lot

of different directions.

677

And, um, I know you and I ended up

staying pretty close to the script, but

678

I'm sure just the, everybody's pointing

in this in the same direction was, uh,

679

must have been extremely gratifying.

680

It, it was, and I think also there was

a, a, a bigger, again, res resources.

681

Runway is we actually had three agencies.

682

So Guy was sort of the, you

know, the epicenter with me.

683

But we also had a sort of a, a, a, a

stunts events, you know, uh, SWAT team

684

agency, and then we had our media agency.

685

And from the outset, I got

everybody at the table and I said,

686

everybody, you know, I think we

all want know for, for, for pipe.

687

I said, let's just drop all pretense here.

688

Um, you know this, it's, it's all

our idea, it's all our success,

689

or it's all our failure, so.

690

Everybody's gotta depend on everyone

else because the media that we put in

691

those five cities or taking over bars

in those cities, or, you know, the

692

stunts, a guy, you know, a guy came up

with the idea of like, let's get old

693

English cabs and take advanced matches.

694

And the, the next agency

had to execute against it.

695

Or if that agency came up with an

idea, guy had to do the creative for

696

the media agency, had to purchase

the, the space or whatever it may be.

697

Um, and, and we're able to get three

pretty significant agencies to . Play

698

together in the sandbox incredibly well.

699

I think Marshalling resources has always

been one thing that I've, I've, whether

700

it be internal or, or external, both

optimally, I think a big key to success.

701

'cause you, you, you can't do it yourself.

702

When did you have a good sense on

the character of Ted Lasso has more

703

legs than just these commercials?

704

Uh, right away.

705

I'm also a big fan of using

YouTube and, and other social media

706

as your real time focus group.

707

I mean, people right away were

going, when's the show coming out?

708

But literally back in 2014, I had the

show greenlit and I, I, I go back and

709

here's where it's like dreaming big.

710

I, I was like a slave to being a

company guy said, can we get 10 o'clock

711

on Thursday nights and we're gonna

do this show and we're gonna mark.

712

Our SportsCenter is going to

become comedy show, like our list.

713

You think about HBO and Mm-Hmm, . So

there's a bunch of, you know, shows

714

go back, but there's, you know,

a bunch of sports themed shows.

715

Not many before.

716

Uh, I just thought this would,

this would be such a huge win.

717

Um, got a green lit, went to Mark Lazarus.

718

I I learned how to green

light a show and spoke.

719

Went to meet people Universal

television in both the US and uk.

720

Um, ended up getting BB,

C to basically pay for it.

721

They were gonna put it on their

BBC player, which was their

722

new OTT streaming back in 2014.

723

They were gonna pay the entire production

and everything was gonna be gravy.

724

This thing was gonna make money.

725

And, you know, for personal reasons.

726

And Jason I think says it in some

articles that he just, he got

727

distracted with other things.

728

He had a married and had a son and.

729

Had other things going on, and this was

always just a passion project for him.

730

And it kind of put, he

put it on the shelf.

731

We literally had meetings in London with a

woman named Sharon Horgan, made remember?

732

Fantastic.

733

Cont Fantastic.

734

Yeah.

735

And, and she was gonna be the showrunner.

736

We literally had all the pieces together

and like many of these things do.

737

Most never go to air.

738

They most fizzle.

739

Or barely make it.

740

We had a pilot.

741

We didn't even need a

pilot, we had the pilot.

742

Um, so we were ready to go and

it just kind of fell off and

743

then it wasn't again until 2017.

744

And when I left, I was eventually

told like, okay, bill put it down.

745

Um, Jason's people were always

like, this should be really beyond

746

Netflix, but I was holding onto the

ip, we owned the date and uh, maybe

747

I shouldn't have held on so tightly.

748

So, you know, for that long.

749

But ultimately when I, when I was told

to put it down, I put it in the hands

750

of universal television ultimately.

751

Um, then, you know, got licensed

to, and then I left NBC sports,

752

so I was sort of now one step

removed but still working with it.

753

'cause I was an ad still at NBC

Universal and ultimately they did a

754

co-production deal with Warner Brothers

and Apple tv, the rest of history.

755

Yeah.

756

Bill, I have to ask, is seeing it become

such a successful show and really a

757

kind of a cultural phenomenon during

Covid, is that hard to watch something

758

that you kind of gave birth to turn

into something that's such a phenomenon?

759

Well, there are two, two

different kinds of watch.

760

Watch It Happen is amazing.

761

The only thing, and it's most

people focus on the money and

762

boy sure it would've been.

763

Great.

764

I mean, NBC sports made a ton of money

off of just the licensing use of the name.

765

I don't know what economics were in terms

of any, anything on the co-production.

766

They may have just licensed

away the name for all I know.

767

I never really found that part out.

768

And it's like, aren't you so mad that you

didn't make your bazillions of dollars?

769

First of all, most people never

make money on their first time.

770

Yeah.

771

I wasn't thinking about the money.

772

I was thinking more about the, you

know, the professional Oh, I that

773

the, the watch this, turn into that.

774

I mean, think about, alright,

this is ego non withstanding.

775

I, I changed consumption of an entire

sport in America and, and made something

776

so much more important to people.

777

'cause we all know the value that

sports brings to all of our lives.

778

I then when a Global Pandemic hit

was, was the, the, you know, father at

779

some way, shape, or form of something

that gave people hope globally.

780

That's pretty, that's pretty big.

781

Uh, I love that.

782

What I love to have made a couple

more shekels off it here and there,

783

whatever really I direct deposit was

pretty, kind to me during those days.

784

So I, I'll tell you the coolest

thing and, and people call bullshit

785

on me on this, but I was skiing

with my daughter at Park City.

786

We're on the shuttle

back to the hotel and.

787

Full bus full of people and doors closed.

788

My daughter was like 15 at the

time, and the driver goes, Hey,

789

is anyone watching this Ted Lasso?

790

And everybody starts, uh, and my daughter

just looks at me and the look in her eyes

791

and she goes, dad, tell them, tell them.

792

I'm like, eh, it's okay.

793

I just got everything I needed outta this.

794

Nice.

795

Well, your daughter's, you got your

daughter's pride and endorsement for sure.

796

Yes.

797

Fake it.

798

Well, fantastic.

799

I love that.

800

You appreciate the double

bump you got there, right?

801

You got to do something amazing

in terms of transforming the

802

way people consume a sport.

803

Um.

804

And, you know, contributed to something

that really kind of made people feel

805

a little better in a crappy time.

806

So thanks for that on behalf of the world.

807

Thank you.

808

Thank you for your service.

809

Yes, it was, uh, it, yes.

810

Very, very cool thing.

811

And it's great to, you know,

have in, in, you know, in a

812

chapter in the book in my brain.

813

Is there anything that, that you

haven't shared about that little

814

Ted lasso origin story that you, you

could tell us some kind of behind

815

the scenes thing that you found most

fascinating or shocking or horrifying?

816

Part of his, uh, remuneration, his

compensation was, Hey, I get a trip

817

from me and my buddies to London for a

weekend, first class to go watch football.

818

So, 'cause we were definitely

not paying him what he's used to

819

earning at first time we did this.

820

So we said, sure.

821

Um, I started talking to his

manager and he, he's like,

822

Hey, we wanna book that trip.

823

And I said, when do you wanna do it?

824

He goes, what are you free?

825

And I said, oh, nice.

826

I said, I didn't blink.

827

I said, well, you tell me.

828

I'll, I'll find, I'll,

I'll make myself ring.

829

So we went over for a weekend.

830

It was me, Jason, his manager, coach

Beard, and his writer Joe Kelly, who

831

remained attached to the writing of

the show with, with Bill Lawrence.

832

Um, you know, went for

a weekend in London.

833

So I figured one of three

eventualities are gonna happen.

834

One, we get there, they're

like, they just dust me.

835

All right.

836

Bye, bill.

837

Thanks, . Um, second is I'm gonna be let

into this world of, uh, celebrity where

838

we're just out, just, just killing it.

839

Right.

840

Um, and third is these are just

a bunch of geeky guys who just

841

sit around and play board games,

like, uh, the Hansen Brothers.

842

Um, which one do you think happened?

843

Four.

844

You became lifelong

best friends with Jason.

845

Uh, was it three?

846

It was three really?

847

Now, that's not to say we

went out for nice dinners.

848

What was also interesting is Jason

actually kind of reveled at that point.

849

Nobody knew who he was.

850

He could walk freely and people,

or, you know, one, once in a

851

blue moon someone would stopped.

852

There was no SNL over

in, uh, in, in the uk.

853

So, um, you know, we went out for some

nice dinners, but by and large we're

854

back at the hotel playing board games.

855

Glad you had that experience.

856

Yeah.

857

Sounds, you, sounds

like you worked for it.

858

Yeah.

859

I feel like I heard that . So

that's a, a great story of a

860

campaign that, that really made out.

861

Well.

862

Can you tell us one that, um, you feel

like didn't hit over the way that you

863

expected it or, um, you know, no regrets,

but you know, what, what do you think

864

was, you know, your biggest miss on one?

865

Well, um, I don't have misses, no.

866

Um, well, I will say fortunately,

at least, you know, there's nothing

867

that was like a, a a, a tank.

868

There's some ones that sort of never

made it to air because they were a

869

little too over the edge and yeah.

870

You know, if this ever sees the

light of day someone's getting fired.

871

Um, there were those moments.

872

We had one with, uh, um, Mike

Tyson babysitting for John Krock.

873

I don't know how I'd talk his

agent into letting us what?

874

Yes.

875

After he got outta jail.

876

I mean, it, it, please tell me there's

film of this somewhere, , uh, the spot

877

exists, uh, if you Google at Fox Sports

was for the best stamp sports show.

878

Uh, and, um, uh, yeah, it just,

uh, it was one where they said, if

879

this thing airs, someone's giving.

880

Another one was, uh, a, a print

ad that, um, it was, i, I, I feel

881

almost guilty 'cause it was almost

like pulling the wool over, but.

882

It was one of these distribution

battle things with cable companies,

883

and we came up with an ad that

said, um, Hey, sports fans, your

884

package is about to get smaller.

885

And it was a picture of a jock strap.

886

I will leave out the name of the,

the distributor, but ads shipped.

887

They were approved.

888

I, I just don't think,

I won't take either.

889

I don't think people realize really what

the subtext was when, when it was approved

890

and then someone caught onto it later.

891

Hard to miss.

892

I didn't hide it.

893

Like there was one, even even the

campaign I'm doing right now, there's

894

like one little line in there that was

a little subversive, um, in my book.

895

My current boss said, take the line out.

896

You can keep the shot in, but

you gotta take the line out.

897

He goes, I love that rascal in you.

898

You know?

899

So I was like, you put it out there

if you know, so I'm willing, again,

900

willing to take creative risk as well.

901

Well, bill, you've been real generous

with time and we're super grateful.

902

We, I really appreciate all this time.

903

It's really, it's fantastic.

904

Yeah, it's great conversation.

905

Thank you so much.

906

Awesome, awesome stuff from Bill.

907

What an interesting career.

908

Yeah, I mean, he is done so many things.

909

He's not been afraid to, to take big

swings and, uh, and the right risks and,

910

and how to kind of manage an organization

to be able to, um, you know, take leaps

911

and bounds and, and really just kind

of keep everybody aligned and, and

912

build that trust in an organization.

913

Yeah.

914

Yeah.

915

Really, really impressive lessons

about how to sell stuff in there.

916

I also was.

917

Just shocked to hear the, the, that

was news to me that, uh, Jason Sudeikis

918

as Ted Lasso was not the first or

second or even third choice for that

919

campaign to launch the Premier League.

920

Yeah, that was, that was, that

was interesting to find out.

921

Yeah.

922

I, I hope, I hope this isn't how

Jason Sudeikis is finding that out.

923

nice.

924

He's probably listening after all.

925

Oh, yeah.

926

Yeah.

927

Well, and if he's not, maybe he's

our next, uh, participant in Dear

928

Hopelessly Unattainable guest.

929

Oh.

930

Well that can be maybe your next

Dear Hopelessly unattainable

931

guest, but it's my turn to go next.

932

Okay.

933

What do you got?

934

Alright, so are you ready?

935

Here is my pitch to our next

Hopelessly Unattainable guest.

936

While we're waiting on Tim Cook.

937

What?

938

What do you got?

939

Okay.

940

Oh wait, I forgot to tell you.

941

Uh, Tim called.

942

He's not free.

943

Uh, alright, here we go.

944

Dear Taylor Swift, oh gosh.

945

Hold for a loss.

946

It is with great pleasure.

947

I invite you to join me and my co-host,

Brian Marks on Snap Decisions, the podcast

948

I'm sure you've already heard about.

949

On your way to being music's biggest

star and a cultural icon, you surely

950

faced some huge forks in the road

where your own snap decisions changed

951

the trajectory of your career.

952

Your decision to pursue the pop genre over

country, buying back the rights to your

953

master recordings and then reinventing

your own work boldly standing up for

954

others who don't always have such a big

voice, and even your decision to not

955

invest in FTX when other celebrities were

happily accepting huge endorsement deals

956

before that company crashed and burned.

957

Just like you, Brian and I grew up

in the Philly area, and you and I go.

958

Way back to the time when

I saw your 17 year old self

959

performing at a corporate gig.

960

You're a young woman with a giant

steel guitar playing to a small group

961

of corporate types on a side stage.

962

While the masses were waiting

for the hollow busk of Credence

963

Clearwater Revival to play.

964

I was the guy standing about 10 row

to your left wearing jeans, a blue

965

button down shirt, and a blazer.

966

Sure, you're probably considering

an appearance on Travis and Jason

967

Kelsey's New Heights podcast.

968

That's too obvious and too expected.

969

Make the bold decision

and join Snap decisions.

970

Yours truly.

971

John Young and Brian Marks

the Snap decisions team.

972

What do you think?

973

We got a chance.

974

Wow.

975

I think we got a chance.

976

You know, I wanna see, I wanna

get Taylor's version of things.

977

Stop, snap . You, you don't

think she remembers me?

978

I, you have a little too much

detail in there from, from that old.

979

From that many years ago.

980

Yeah.

981

I have no idea what I was wearing,

but that's a pretty safe guess.

982

Yeah, that's great.

983

That's great.

984

Yeah.

985

Well, hey, that's what this is all about.

986

Let's, let's take out the

big bats and, and go for it.

987

Let's see, uh, let's see if we can edge

out the Kelsey's exactly like you said.

988

Mood shots, baby.

989

Mood shots.

990

Well, yeah.

991

All right, well, let's wrap this thing up.

992

Let's do it.

993

How do we, how do we wrap?

994

You say goodbye.

995

I think we just say goodbye.

996

It's been real.

997

Hey Brian.

998

Thanks.

999

Thank you.

00:43:40,219 --> 00:43:40,439

Bye.