In this episode of The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast, we explore what it’s really like working as a UK-trained Clinical Psychologist in the UAE. If you’ve ever wondered about relocating abroad, practising outside the NHS, navigating private healthcare systems, or balancing career progression with lifestyle changes, this conversation offers a realistic and informed perspective.

I’m joined by Dr Jack Nejand, a UK-trained Clinical Psychologist who moved from South London to Abu Dhabi. We discuss visas, licensing, tax differences, CAMHS-style work in the UAE, insurance-based healthcare models, relocation logistics, career development abroad, service development opportunities, and what life actually feels like on the ground.Whether you’re considering working as a psychologist overseas, exploring expat life, or simply curious about international career pathways in clinical psychology, this episode provides clarity without selling a fantasy.

This conversation is especially relevant for:

1. UK Clinical Psychologists considering relocation
2. DClinPsy applicants thinking long-term about career options
3. Psychologists navigating burnout or financial pressures
4. Anyone curious about working in private healthcare abroad

Timestamps:

1. 00:00 – Why psychologists are considering working abroad
2. 04:03 – How the opportunity to move to the UAE emerged
3. 06:51 – Telling family and friends about relocating
4. 08:27 – Why more young professionals are leaving the UK
5. 10:00 – The lifestyle reality of living in Abu Dhabi
6. 15:39 – Cohabitation laws and cultural considerations
7. 17:00 – What CAMHS looks like in the UAE
8. 21:02 – Insurance-based healthcare explained
9. 25:15 – Clinical severity and thresholds compared to the NHS
10. 27:27 – CPD, conferences and career development abroad
11. 28:48 – Visas, licensing and Emirates ID
12. 31:13 – Pension, leave and employment differences
13. 34:52 – Bringing UK service models into UAE schools
14. 38:37 – Assistant Psychologist roles and early-career pathways

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A lot of psychologists are wondering the same thing right now. What would my life look like if I worked somewhere else? Different system, different culture, different pace. I'm Dr. Marianne and I've spent years supporting psychologists through training, burnout and big career decisions. In this episode I'm speaking with Dr. Jack, a UK trained psychologist who moved from South London to working clinically in the UAE. We're asking the kinds of questions people don't always get clear answers to so you can fill in your own knowledge gaps, understand the realities, and feel better informed whether you are considering the move yourself or just supporting someone who is. This isn't about selling the dream, it's about understanding the decision. I hope you find it so useful and if you do like and subscribe for more. Hi, I just want to welcome along Dr. Jack Nejand to the podcast. Hi Jack, welcome along.

Hi Marianne. Thanks for having me.

Could you tell us a little bit about a very brief potted history for you, how you became a clinical psychologist, if that's okay, Jack?

Of course. Yeah, so I chose psychology in a level that was my first entry into psychology or even being interested in psychology, I think because I enjoyed other subjects at school such as maths, english, science, et cetera. But I wanted a level that combined those things, but it was a little bit different, a bit of a wild card I suppose, and just really fell in love with learning about the classical studies that you learn at a level, understanding a bit more about things that may be at least my parents generation and people that I would be talking to about my studies didn't really understand or know too much about. So that just inspired my interest in psychology and wanting to do it undergraduate degree, but I hadn't really considered clinical psychology as a career until maybe my third year of undergrads when I did a placement, I knew that I liked working with young people.

I'd had a few roles in schools and tuition centres and places like that where I was supporting young people with their education. And so when the opportunity to do a year in industry came along, I thought I would apply to great Ormond Street, which had really good connections with the University of bar I was studying. Was fortunate to get a placement there for a year and spend most of that observing some really fantastic psychologists who really welcomed us into their work and allowed us to be in the room with them when they were doing really important second opinion autism assessments, cognitive assessments and so on. From there, really I just decided that was a path I wanted to pursue. So after that I spent quite a few months following graduation, applying for assistant psychologist roles. Took a bit of time as I'm sure most people have that experience, but managed to get a role in a brain injury rehab unit in southeast London and got a lot of responsibility and experience there as well. So again, had a really fantastic supervisor who first me into the deep end a lot of the time, but not without the support that I needed to then kind of successfully applied for training. So I started training in 2018 and yeah, that's kind of where the journey to being officially a clinical psychologist began.

Amazing, thank you. So I know that will have encapsulated the pandemic, but we probably don't have time to quite do that justice right now, but as we can all imagine what that was like for a trainee and there were certain other episodes of the podcast where we have discussed that with previous guests. So you then started working in a CAMS service as a qualified psychologist and worked there for a number of years. When did the idea of moving abroad and practising as a clinical psychologist first arise?

That's a good question. Really. I think after a couple of years of being in the service, which I loved, I had some great colleagues there and again, had lots of opportunities for opportunities, higher responsibility than perhaps my role would otherwise allow in other services. I guess I was aware of the connections between Slam South London and Mosley Trust where I was working and a service called Mosley Health that exists here in the UAE. And so it was a case of exploring what a role out here might look like, talking to people who are already here and just understanding what it's day to day on a personal level, on a professional level. And once I'd spoken to the team leads in my service, she was very helpful in getting me in touch with I guess the more important people at Mosley Health who could talk to me about a potential role and so on.

So yeah, I guess there was a combination of factors, but having that link already made it feel a bit easier and a bit more familiar if I was to make that move knowing that there's professional opportunities and I guess a lot of the other things that come with being in a job for a long time, thinking about progression, improving my financial situation, I suppose that's important to shy away from that point and just maybe going somewhere where the weather was a bit nicer and the culture was different and just getting all those experiences at stage in my life where it felt possible still.

Yeah, I mean I'm sitting here with a hot water bottle on my lap, under my blanket, which you can't see. It's just off camera and you're sitting there with the air con on near the beach. So yes, we could definitely see that there are differences in our current experiences. Am I right in thinking that, I know Dubai I think is tax free is where you are tax free as well.

Yeah, so there's no income tax salary is paid in full. I suppose where that comes around is that there are lots of other things in day-to-day life that perhaps are either more expensive or are taxed in other ways. So it is not that it's completely tax free as a country, but certainly with income tax, that's a significant advantage to working out here.

Absolutely, and especially if you wanted to save up for a period of time to then buy property elsewhere or live a life that just felt, I dunno, more aligned to your own goals and values, that does make it easier. What's it like when you say to friends, family, loved ones, I'm thinking of moving my entire life to UAE, what was that like for you?

I'd say on the whole a positive experience but not without trepidation, not wanting to perhaps upset people or just knowing that people will have a certain reaction depending on their relationship with you. Certainly telling close family it was hard because of, apart from being at Bar for three years doing my undergraduate degree, I've always been very close to where my parents live and been able to see them very frequently and my extended family are all nearby and kind of South London as well. So yeah, that was certainly a difficult conversation, but my family very supportive and it certainly made the process a lot easier once it was out in the open. Similarly telling friends as well, I think it's been quite well documented in the news even I think there's a lot of people around my age from early thirties or even late twenties who are making the move at the moment either to places like the UAE or Australia or parts of Europe and so on, just seeking something that perhaps they feel they're not getting by being in the UK at the moment.

I guess there's a lot of financial pressure with the cost of living crisis and so on and it's just made people think twice about what's possible at a stage in their life. So friends perhaps more understanding initially and quite a few of them have actually been making similar moves in the last few years, so maybe that felt more normal. It's something we're all getting used to is being more connected on WhatsApp at different hours of the day because of time zone differences and stuff like that. So yeah, on the whole it was a positive experience. Oh,

I'm pleased to hear it Jack, and it reminds me of a news article I heard on the radio a couple of weeks ago that made me think of you actually because it was saying that for the first time ever actually when they're looking at migration figures, it isn't people of retirement age heading to sunny Spain that are the biggest chunk of people becoming expats from the uk. It's actually people in your age bracket and they kind of looking at the whys and where fors of that. But exactly as you said, maybe people are not necessarily feeling the same level of hope or that they can achieve in the UK for whatever reason. And I'm not saying that's right or wrong, this is just what was discussed in the news and I guess the sense that life is for living, but also this doesn't necessarily have to be forever, so it might be, so one of my friend's brothers actually went out to the UEA Uua EI keep mixing it up because it's a university I speak about quite often, but UAE and ended up meeting someone getting married and they've now got two sons out there.

And even the fact I moved to Coventry for three years and I'm still here married with two sons, sometimes the decisions we make for just now or for a period in our life do become more permanent and become the fabric of our lives. But I'm really pleased to hear that you found that to be a good experience. And how's it been since you've been there

On the whole, again, very positive. I think it's probably an all cliche, but just waking up with the sun shining every day, it does make quite a big difference and I compare that to this time last year as much as I loved the clinical work I was doing lots of early starts in the dark, driving in the cold and wet to up to Essex or getting the train into southeast London or whatever to go to schools and do work there. So in that respect, I guess that's something that's quite tangible and easy to notice as a difference from arrive from straight away say on the whole though moving in general can be quite stressful and there's lots of admin and things to keep track of and so on. So moving countries meeting for the first time I guess just made me realise quite how much goes into it, how much thought and how much energy you're left with afterwards.

So I say I'm still very much in that transitional phase or my lifestyle and the things that I want to be doing with my time aren't necessarily in place just yet, but I'm building bit by bit. So yeah, and everyone that I've met, colleagues, other people that I've met through playing football for example, and just trying to meet people organically I guess have been really helpful. Everyone offers their number very quickly. Something doesn't happen so much in the UK in case you've got questions about little things, how does this work or how much should this cost, whatever it might be. So yeah, it's been a really positive experience so far.

Yeah, that was going to be my next question really, how easily you'd found it to set up hobbies, whether you've developed new ones, kind beach living or whether you've reconnected with old ones or whether you're just seeing how it all unfolds really that is I think so important to our wellbeing. I was wondering whether there's theatres, nightlife, I'm guessing there is, but how easy is it to set things up around you to support your wellbeing so that you can thrive?

Yeah, it's a really good question. Something I reflect on quite a lot with people who are asking me how the process is going who've not long been through the process themselves. My partner as well, I think they reached a point maybe a month ago when we'd been here for three months and I kind of decided I'm not doing enough exercise and I'm not meeting enough new people yet, so I'm just going to go for it and join a football team. So that's only happened quite recently, but I think it's relatively easy to find these spaces if you want them. Abu Dhabi is a very, very busy city. There's lots and lots of social stuff going on, even just following a few social media pages to see what's about can give you ideas every single weekend that completely different. So there's everything out there if you want it to happen, the opportunities are there and I guess it's just down to individual preference as to how much you engage with that, how quickly you engage with that and also I guess financially how much money you ready to commit to a new hobby for example.

But I've enjoyed the process of learning what's out there, what's available. Certainly as you mentioned, having the chance to spend more time on the beach or be in the sea or swim or whatever it might be, that wasn't on my radar whatsoever living in southwest London for the last couple of years. So yeah, I'm looking forward to that, seeing how it goes and trying to build things up gradually so that I'm not feeling too overwhelmed or I'm not ready to make that change or that adaptation when even getting used to the workplace and how everything's different. There is also a challenge at itself.

And so it sounds like you and your partner made this plan together and did you move out together and built life and found jobs together? I'm guessing that helps combat the loneliness as well because I know some people move out by themselves, it's all or nothing, isn't it? It's all on them to create stuff around them and you don't have the Netflix and still have some company kind of vibe that you might be used to at home.

Yeah, exactly. So we moved out together, although we had various plans before that dependent on whether she was able to get a job before coming or not. Different job markets vary in terms of I guess how many opportunities there are, how many vacancies there are and stuff. So she's been looking since she arrived, but she actually grew up here, so that was a big factor in deciding to move over and something that she'd been considering I think even before we'd met. So once I'd have a chance to visit a few years ago for a friend's wedding and get a sense of what it's like here, is that a case of I guess gathering all the information I could about what living here would look like as opposed to just coming on holiday? But yeah, it has been nice certainly to do that alongside somebody else and obviously share all the joys, but also the frustrations, not feel like you're going too crazy when something completely farfetched happens that you just never would expect to happen back home.

Absolutely. I'm sure there's lots of cultural shocks and things that you're just not used to and you're having to adjust to and one of those, I think I'm right in saying that in the past, people who are not married that are living together or might kiss or hold hands outside in Arab countries, that's kind of not always okay. I dunno if you are married and how that's been for you, but if someone is looking at thinking about whether they might move, is that a consideration for them, Jack, do you know?

So we're not married and the rules around cohabitation changed I think just before COVID. So expatriate couples are certainly allowed to live together without being married, so that wasn't an issue thankfully. I think yeah, there's still some cultural expectations around things like displays of affection in public and so on. I wouldn't say that's been a concern or an issue for us or something we've had to think too consciously about. I think things like handholding aren't particularly frowned upon or anything like that. And I think from a legal standpoint, it's less to do with the potential punishment or anything like that. It's more so just about respecting the boundaries of the people that are around and so on. But it's also a very multicultural society, so only about just over 10% of the population here are actually native to the country. They're actually locals and then the rest is made up of expatriates from all over the world, all with different cultures and expectations and beliefs and so on. So yeah, I guess being clued up is important, but I don't feel fortunately any way that I've had to be uber vigilant or conscious of specific things that I would be doing in the UK that I can't do here or anything like that.

Thank you. Thanks for illuminating us in that area. And I know from our chat before we hit record, you're working in a CAM service. Does that largely look like a UK cam service? Have you got a psychiatry, have you got support workers? Have you got social workers, psychologists, assistants? What does your CAM service broadly look like? Jack,

There's certainly some similarities in terms of there being an MDT. We have psychiatrists, psychologists, speech therapists, occupational therapists, a paediatrician, and then a really large and supportive team of administrators who help us with our diaries and generally organising appointments and so on. I guess social work or social workers is maybe an area that we don't have so much cover in or support in, and that's something that's maybe developing a little bit more in this country in terms of having an equivalent to social services when it comes to those safeguarding cases. So there are certain processes like that that maybe don't feel as established yet, but are definitely on the radar of the people who are making these decisions and setting up these services from a day-to-day standpoint. I think there's lots of things that feel similar are a big team and we meet weekly to discuss cases just as NHS Cams team would.

People have their own caseloads that they manage, which I guess is similar, but perhaps what's different is that there isn't maybe as much joint work or observation or shadowing or that sort of thing. If we're working on a case with a psychologist, there might be opportunities to consult with each other outside of sessions, but generally everyone has quite busy diaries and so that overlap doesn't happen quite as much. There's a lot more autonomy I guess, especially depending on how senior your role might be. So it depends whether you're someone who likes that kind of thing or not. But at times that's great because I feel like I've got full control over who I'm seeing when I'm seeing them and what I'm going to be doing with them. Other times there's maybe that opportunity for collaboration and team working that has to be organised a bit more meticulously than would happen in an office environment where everyone's sharing the same space. We all have our own route operates a bit more like a private setting I guess.

I see. It's not like when I was in the NHS and I didn't have my own chair, I didn't have an office, I didn't have my own desk where you're going to be and that's happening. That sounds ideal. Where are referrals coming in from? Is it kind of gps, is it schools? Is it self-referral? What does that typically look like? Jack?

All of the above really because it's a private healthcare model and I guess the needs are slightly different here on the hold. Maybe the UK waiting lists do exist, but they're not as long. So if people find out about the service through word of mouth, maybe they know someone who's accessed the service or have been told about it, then they can get in touch and self refer. Similarly with young people that I'm working with, a lot of referrals come in through school perhaps there are difficulties that are arising within the school setting, otherwise there are other private services with psychiatry and so on. And I think the service has a lot of relationships with prominent psychiatrists in these places that they know to refer to our service because of the different specialties that are on. So they come from all places. I guess similar to I guess either a private service or NHS service in the uk, I guess what's different is that it's kind of an insurance model because it's private healthcare as well. So what people can access is dependent on the level of insurance they have.

That was going to be my next question. Do people self-fund or is it all insurance or organisation funded? Does anyone self-fund or is that so ridiculously expensive that it's just all insurance? It's more like an American healthcare?

No, people do self-fund whether they have the insurance or not. The insurance may not cover the nature of the work that happens in our service as opposed to traditional medical or physical health services. Some people part fund and part reimburse on insurance. So there's all combination of payment methods is available really.

Thank you. And seeing, so I know you said it's sort of 90% expats there. Are you seeing indigenous local people's children or are you seeing all expat children? So perhaps people that have gone out to move for business to work for finance, you're seeing their children or the children of teaching staff that are working in the schools. I'm sure it's a real medley, but it would be obviously don't name any names or anything, but just a little bit of an overview of the types of children and young people that you're seeing would be really lovely.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. It is a medley. I've had certainly a few young people from on my caseload who are Emirati, and that's been a really nice opportunity to understand a bit more about the culture, meeting the parents with these young people and understanding their expectations and being able to adapt to my practise. And at times that's involved using an interpreter to be able to support that if there's any language barriers there. But also there's real variety within the local population in terms of I guess their culture and how it intersects with the different cultures that exist here, the education systems that exist here. There's lots of British international schools, American international schools, Russian international schools. There's a lot of overlap. And so a lot of the young people that I'm working with who are local to the country have grown up here will still perhaps conceptualise mental health and the problems that they have through Western Lenss because that's what they're used to.

And I guess there's a spectrum some that end to how things might be conceptualised more traditionally here. So that's been a really nice opportunity to work across that spectrum to understand things slightly differently to what I was used to. And then aside from that, exactly as you said, there's a lot of young people who've come. They've moved not just once, maybe two or three times within their lifetime with their families, either through their work opportunities or otherwise. So yeah, there's a real mixture in that sense too. I'm always looking out for the nationalities of the young people that are being referred to me in case there's someone new that I get to meet from a new background or so on, which is quite a nice aspect.

I could imagine in your position I might have a little map of the world and picking out little pins of different cultures and nationalities that I'd worked with. And when I think back to my own experiences of working in cams, because I was a CAMS clinician for almost four years when I qualified, I think now when we're looking at modern cams now in the uk, often the sort of people that are being supported in CAMS services now were previously in inpatient because everything is sort of just seems much more severe and people seem to be getting old quick and experiencing things that I'm a mother of two children, I've got a 9-year-old and a 12-year-old, and just some of the things that I hear being spoken about just were not on my radar when I was their age at all. I guess it's probably the same for all generations is that we feel like our kids grow up quick, but are you working with a similar level of severity as a UK CAM service or is there a bit more of a primary care vibe or again, is it a real kind of medley? I

Would say it's a mix and I think different clinicians are able to express their preference or maybe their competencies when it comes to working with cases of higher risk than perhaps others. So I had a fair bit of that when I was working in the UK and certainly feel comfortable working with that kind of presentation. So I've had a few cases like that, but I wouldn't say it's disproportionate in either direction really to what I was experiencing before. I can't speak too much I guess for my colleagues and what they see, but my understanding would be because it's this kind of open system without too many kind of criteria for inclusion or exclusion about referrals that anyone could come through the door really with any kind of presentation. And it could be often try and make the analogy or the comparison, would this case be seen in a community come service in the uk?

Would they be seen by the gp? Would they be seen by something in between or even tertiary services? And there can be a lot of differences in that respect. I think cases that perhaps wouldn't meet the CAMS threshold in the UK are being seen more frequently here, and that's maybe more a circumstance of availability of clinicians and the insurance model. I guess maybe making that more possible young people here to be seen if they want to access an early intervention as opposed to something that's a bit later down the line. So yeah, I think the presentations do vary and there's still that severity and that complexity that comes with working in any mental health service. But on the whole I'd say yeah, there's maybe a bit of a difference difference to what I've seen and experienced in community and tertiary account services in the uk.

Thank you. I've got just a few quick fire questions that I want to ask you. I've got so many things and we can't possibly do them all justice, but my first one is can you still get training and support to develop your career when you are abroad?

Absolutely. It's in fact a requirement of the licence that you have to have to practise out here that you are continuing your professional development and acquiring called, called CME points over here. So there are lots of conferences that happen. Mostly health. The company that I work for actually have an annual conference, which I was lucky to be able to attend within my first few weeks. The timing fell quite nicely. There's some fantastic speakers there who are working around the country, the region, but also coming from South London and Mosley in London. So that's a really nice event where the two kind of worlds collide a little bit. And then yeah, we are all allocated a certain number of study days each year that we can use to pursue training as we see fit, whether that's face-to-face within the country or whether there's online courses that we want to be able to access as well, so that there is certainly an opportunity to prioritise that when one feels appropriate. So I would've found it difficult to take a role without that kind of assurance I suppose. So grateful that that's an option.

Perfect. And Visas, have you had help sort out your visa? Can you stay indefinitely or not guide us through that quickly if that's okay, Jack?

For sure. So to be able to work in any of the Emirates as they're divided up in the UAE, Abu Dhabi being one, Dubai being a separate Emirates, that you have to have a licence from the Department of Health. So at the point of being offered a role, I was then sent lots of forms to fill in just with information about I guess myself, my history and so on. But also contact details for references and identification documents, all the kind of standard stuff you would expect plus a few more layers on top I guess given the nature of moving abroad. And the HR team took that process and carried out the vast majority of it and it was just a case of me keeping on my emails in case I needed to update anything or send anything or whatever it might be. The process can be a bit lengthy.

So I suppose if anyone's listening and thinking about making the move here specifically, I would prepare for at least maybe six months from the point of being offered the role to being able to move out here and to start. But once I was here, within three weeks or so, I was able to start my role and in that time as well, in the Emirates or in the UAE, everybody has an Emirates id. It's kind of form of national identification. Everything is kind of tied to that. That's your way of setting up a bank account, the utility bills, all that kind of stuff. It's what people would ask to see if you needed to be identified in any kind of situation. So again, the company arranged all of those appointments for me so that I was able to do that as swiftly as possible. So it can be a long process, but once you're aware that that's the case, it's not so bad. It's not so stressful. And then I guess my right to stay is dependent on having the working visa and my licence. I think everyone's licence maybe is creative for two years. So at the point where that two years is coming to an end, I would have a discussion with the company about whether my intention was to continue or so on and they would begin the renewal process of that. That can be a cyclical thing.

I see. So it's completely separate to the HCPC. Are you running your HCPC concurrently?

Yes. Yeah, so I still have membership for that, yep.

Perfect. And do many companies offer relocation expenses to help support that?

I think it varies massively from company to company and sector to sector or industry to industry. Here mostly health supported me with flight expenses, which was very helpful and a hotel for the first two weeks of being here just to get set up and so on, which was right next to the office. So I had the opportunity to go and meet my manager within those first few weeks. It varies otherwise, I mean, one thing to mention I guess is that maybe we were going to come onto it anyway, getting somewhere to live, like an apartment or a villa or whatever's kind of a mismatch in terms of where things are at now versus how they might've been 10 or 15 years ago. So a lot of places would expect you to pay a full year's rent upfront, which was a bit of a shock when we arrived, that was still being asked and we hadn't prepared for that.

And a lot of companies in the past would have covered that either without expecting it to be repaid or at least being deducted monthly from someone's salary. So they're moving towards a better system now that suits people who are being paid month to month and can't necessarily afford to do that. But there are little things like that, a bit of a shock to begin with and not every company is able to support with that. So yeah, that's quite a steep learning curve, but it differs massively. So yeah, I would advise anyone who's going to do their research first on things like that.

Absolutely. It does sound a bit of a shock to the system and kind of pension and sickness and parental leave and benefits and things like that. Are they largely similar to that which we'd experience in the uk?

So with pension, there isn't a pension system I suppose that's kind of up to people to decide if that's something they want to invest in while they're here, whether that's back in their home country or whatever. But when you leave the company, generally you'll receive a payoff, even if that's your decision to leave. That is I think equivalent to however many years you've been there, you'd have. So if I was there for two years, for example, you'd get two months worth of your salary at the end, which you could invest how you wish sickness again, the other's sick leave days that you're allocated. And then it would work exactly the same. And I think things like annual leave, maternity leave and so on, perhaps slightly different in terms of the allocations. So I have fewer annual leave days that are mine to choose when to take I guess, than I did in NHS where I had continuous service and so on. But there are a lot more national holidays and bank holidays and that sort of thing. So I think the number of days you get off from work is probably about the same each year, but you have a little less choice in when you can take them. I think things like maternity and paternity leave are maybe a little bit shorter as well than you would tend to get. Okay,

Thank you. Jack, is there anything I haven't asked you that you think would be useful for us to cover before we finish?

I dunno if it's helpful for me to talk anymore about the service that I was in beforehand and how I'm trying to bring that intervention over here or just to give people a sense of what's possible coming here.

That would be great. Thank you.

Yeah, so the service that I was working for in the UK was called Discover. And Discover was a brand new service set up about 10 years ago or just over. And the idea was to bring non-stigmatizing psychoeducational workshops and interventions into the school setting, particularly for six form students, so that 16 to 18 bracket. And over those 10 years it's developed massively and we were working in lots of schools in London in the southeast and had really strong partnerships and so on. And also during that time, a concurrent RCT was conducted that provided some really positive evidence that the intervention works.

Being a part of that was really great and kind of responsibility that I would get to be able to engage in service development and so on was something I really loved about the role. But from a clinical skills point of view, I guess there was a ceiling in terms of what we were doing because we were delivering a manualized intervention and it was that plus a bit of care coordination and assessment around these kind of group one day workshops that were happening within schools. So there's work that I love doing, but I think I was noticing a lot of my additional skills, therapy skills in particular, maybe getting a bit rusty and I had that desire to diversify again. So after four years of finishing training and doing that, I think I was conscious of not maybe pigeonholing myself or becoming too specialised in a particular area.

And so I didn't want to lose that by coming here and feeling as if I'm starting from scratch and starting a new placement on training, which can often be certainly was the experience I had every six months or so. So I wanted to see if there was a way to bring that work that we were doing in London and is currently being disseminated around the UK at the moment over here, given the existing links between Mosley Health and Slam. And the managing director here was very keen and was already aware of Discover and really wanted to make that happen. And that was part of the company's strategy already was to expand into the school system and to have those connections. So it was a really nice convenient timing in a way that I decided I wanted to make the move, had the experience that I had.

And now as of today, in the next couple of weeks, we're finalising a grant proposal to try and secure some funding to make this happen and to run a pilot study in the UAE delivering this intervention, but also doing a lot of co-production. And PPI work to adapt it culturally so that it meets the unique needs of the young people who are here to ensure I guess the language is appropriate and that it aligns with the values of the young people that are working here and the things that they're looking for from a school-based intervention. So it's an opportunity that may not have come along for someone at my stage of my career, I guess, without potentially making this move. As much as there were these amazing things happening in the team I was in, it was all happening with Kings and with a research team in the background. So by coming here, it's given me that licence I guess, to say, this is what I have to offer, how can we make this happen? And then there's a fantastic team of people who have dedicated research time and can look at expertise, relationships with schools who can hopefully make this happen. So that's been a real motivating factor for coming here and also for just making the move work in general.

Yeah, it sounds like you're getting some really great important experience and doing some important work, but kind of service development and when you're really excited about something that you can really get that drive activated, can't it? If someone's listening to this and thinking, oh, I'm not qualified yet, I'm not on clinical training, would there be opportunities for someone to go and be, for example, an assistant psychologist or a PWP? Do you know the answer to that? Maybe you don't, that's okay, but if someone's thinking, how can I get involved from an earlier point of view, is that an option? Do you know?

So assistant psychologists are a relatively new role within the country, and I think even within our service, it's quite an innovative system or setup that's been developed in the last year or two, and those positions are protected for Emiratis. So my understanding is if someone was say post undergrad and they wanted an AP role, but they wanted to move here, I'm not too sure if those positions are available right now, but there are some universities here that have research departments and I imagine there would certainly be in research based roles if that was something that interested an as aspiring psychologist who's thinking about it. Beyond that, I'm not too sure, to be honest. I don't know if perhaps there are roles with similar roles or within other sectors that might count towards the requirements for training, but fortunately, AP roles are still very new. So yeah, I'm not sure if that will change in the future.

Okay, thank you. Just a wonderment, people that might be listening thinking this sounds good, give me a slice of this, but it sounds like actually qualified professionals are prioritised currently and kind of supported with being welcomed more easily into the country. Anyway, if anyone listening or watching has any questions that I haven't asked Jack, please do let us know in the comments on YouTube or on Spotify, you can do q and a on there as well. If you'd find it helpful for Jack to come back on the podcast, if you think you've got other questions or other angles that I haven't done a very good job of grilling him on, please do suggest that as well. Thank you so much for your time in speaking with us, Jack. I hope you've got something lovely and outdoorsy and beachy scheduled for your weekend.

Thank you, Arian. Yes, I'll make sure I go outdoors and make the most of it.

Please do. Thank you again for your time. Take care.

Thank you. Thank you so much for your time in watching or listening. I love hearing from you and about what you thought to this episode. And thanks also again to Dr. Jack for his time in speaking with us. If you'd like to learn more about the stories of real life clinical psychologists and what took them to training and beyond, you can do so by checking out the Clinical Psychologist Collective book. There's a link in the description and in the show notes. If you've already read it, I would welcome your reviews. If you love being part of my gang and you want to help support me as a creator, I'd be so grateful if you consider jumping into the podcast membership, which is available on YouTube, on Apple Podcasts and directly through Captivate. And once again, there are links in the description. Thank you so much for being a part of my world. If you are an aspiring psychologist, I think you will love the Aspiring Psychologist membership, which gets fantastic reviews and is doing amazing things for people's careers.

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