Episode 7 | Are you building a cathedral, or are you just pushing rocks?

In this episode of Strong & Awake, Dane and Mitch explore the crucial interplay between the present moment and long-term vision. Using vivid analogies like the parable of two rock-pushers - one building a cathedral, the other aimlessly toiling, pushing rocks - they underscore the necessity of connecting daily actions to a greater purpose. Through frank self-examination of symptoms, both positive and negative, listeners are challenged to identify (with radical candor) their current reality and preferred future. With authenticity and specificity, they guide listeners in painting a nuanced, multi-sensory vision to fuel sustained motivation amidst life's inevitable discomforts. For those feeling demoralized by past failed attempts, this episode offers a radical reframing: charting an unconventional path aligned with ancient wisdom, not fleeting fads promising shortcuts to fulfillment.

Key Moments:

• 00:00 Introduction
• 00:54 What is now, what is not yet?
• 03:48 Name the symptoms, reveal the vision
• 17:38 What do you want?
• 21:28 Mastering the mundane
• 24:22 Crystallize the cathedral

Mentioned in this Episode:

• Dan Tocchini - Dane's mentor who originally shared the rock pusher parable exemplifying purposeful living. Dan is a seasoned leadership coach and co-founder of Take New Ground, known for his innovative approaches to conflict resolution and transformative leadership development.
• Matthew Perry - Dane references the tragic trajectory of the Friends actor, who achieved fame but then struggled with deeper dissatisfaction.
• David (from the Psalms) - Dane quotes this "Jewish dude" counseling to desire neither poverty nor wealth, just one's "daily bread."
• The parable of the two rock pushers - Dane uses this metaphor, where one laborer builds a cathedral while the other toils aimlessly, to illustrate the power of vision.

Anchor Actions:

1. Ruthlessly list the bothersome "symptoms" manifesting in your current reality, then vividly depict the alternative reality you crave - paint it with nuanced textures, sights, sounds, and feelings.
2. Radically question whether your stated goals and visions align with your deepest values and the person you wish to become. Are wealth, fame, or comfort truly "worth wanting"?
3. Regularly reconnect with and update your crystallized "cathedral" vision, fueling sustained motivation by viscerally visualizing the purposeful life you're striving toward amidst inevitable daily discomforts.

Join Us:

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Copyright 2024 Men & Women Of Discomfort (MWOD.io)

Talking about the now is absolutely critical, but it's insufficient. We have to talk about the not yet simultaneously dead together. Where are you in the midst of your life? And is there anything in your world that you're connecting it to? And it could be as minimally viable as, like, I just want to have a good reason to get out of bed today.

You don't need a grand vision, but you need a vision. Without a vision, people die. They perish. As humans, we prefer the path of least resistance. We crave convenience. The payoff without the price. But when our lives revolve around comfort, it doesn't deliver. Living in perpetual comfort. Leave us weak and asleep. This podcast is an invitation to flip that script, to choose the unlikely path to get the life you really want through voluntary discomfort.

This is strong and awake. I'm Dane Sanders.

Hey, Dane. How are you doing? How are you really doing? Is one of those questions that, you know, it can be cheesy, but it gets to kind of what we're talking about in this episode, which is what do you really want? It's a question that, surprisingly, we often don't give ourselves space to ask or even think about.

Totally or even consider. Like, it's funny, you caught me on a fantastic day like I am having a just an amazing day today. But when you say, how are you doing? It's like, oh gosh, you mean like this year as an adult, you know, as a as a dad, as a husband, as a citizen, when I don't get my way at Home Depot, like, I don't know, give me 45 categories and I'll tell you.

But like, if you if you drain it down to like one day, like today and we're only halfway through the day, I got a good start going, and I'm pretty grateful for that. That's for sure. And I'm also clear, like. This morning was designed like I've been designing this morning for about a decade. It's kind of amazing to me how much work goes into designing a day.

And that's not to say that I haven't enjoyed other mornings before this morning, but there's something like iterating on how to do your life so that you get what you want. It begins with what do you want? So you can design what it is that you're going to design for. And today, on this day, it's a good day.

I'm I'm in tune with my design and I got a lot to be grateful for in that. And it really is better that I deserve. Like, given the nature of this world and the things that are going on in it and the challenges. And like I also have a buddy who right now is getting surgery for colon cancer, like this hour.

And it was my wedding, dear buddy. and so, like, he's not having a good morning, unless he gets better, in which case he's having an amazing morning. So it has to be really clear and like, what is what is better? What am I going for? Where am I headed? What am I looking for him?

And even if in the middle of what you're in, it feels really, But you're really clear that the hard parts of that morning are connected to the bigger place you're headed. It's great. It's fantastic event. And keeping my head on straight for like, lasering in on what do I want really helps motivate me to stay true to the designs that I create for my mornings and my mid days and my nights and all the other bits when things don't go my way.

Yeah, that kind of orientation and that direction is so important. But I also think there's the other side of that where people can just obsess over where they want to go, what their dreams are, where they're headed, and kind of live outside of the moment or don't take advantage of the way they get there, which is the now and this also the long obedience in the same direction, if you will.

Yeah. so I'd love to talk about those two things about kind of the, the present where we're at now. and also kind of that, that new life, that, that future dream. On the other side of that, can we start with kind of the status quo, like where we are now?

Yeah, yeah. When, when am I favorite Proverbs. That kind of encapsulates a little of what you're describing, both the now and then, not yet, and tying them together in a meaningful way, especially if the now is hard. So let's assume that listeners, they I by the way, I didn't describe any of the content of my morning. To be really clear, it could have like been circumstantial.

Things just went my way. Or it could have been things didn't go my way at all. But I responded to those things not going my way in some of the best ways that I've ever responded. And my examples aren't really as relevant. I'm just saying that for the listeners and the folks who are tuning in, that the circumstances of your days aren't what we're talking about.

So being present in whatever shows up is part of the equation. And the other part of the equation is unto what? Where are we going? And that's what this little, this little proverb sets up. I learned this from a mentor of mine, a guy named Dan Tocchini, and he tells a story like this and he might have stolen from somebody else, for all I know.

But two guys are pushing rocks up a hill. One guy's pushing rocks and the other guy's building a cathedral. Now what does that mean? Well, most of the time when you share that proverb, you're talking about the cathedral bit, right? Like, man, oh, man, look where we're headed. But that's we're not even in that conversation. We're going to set the cathedral part of the conversation aside.

It's not the why. You know, we're actually not starting with why. we're actually going to start with now. And now is we're pushing frickin rocks up a hill. And whatever your rocks are, whatever you're kind of tuned into today. And I think that's important place to start, because most of life is pushing rocks, metaphorically. And but what's interesting is in this context, in this little proverb, you have two individuals.

Could it be it could be women? Could be it doesn't really matter. What matters is let's pretend that the two individuals who are pushing rocks are very similar. Similar strength, similar, size rocks and weight of rocks, similar pitch of a hill that they're pushing the rocks up and, similar time of day, like the sweat on their brow and, you know, the aches, similar aches and pains that they have in the middle of the work.

Similar fatigue, similar sleep the night before, similar nutrition before they started pushing rocks. So if you compare apples to apples, one of them is just pushing rocks. And this is where philosophers drift into some really interesting navel gazing around, the meaning of life, right? Like, what is life worth? That life is meaningless. It's life is just pushing rocks.

And those philosophers are get into that kind of nihilistic perspective. They didn't really have one half of the equation. If they really are just experiencing existential rock pushing, that's their life. And then there's this other, you know, bloke next to them who seems to be doing the exact same thing but have somehow connected the dots not just to the rock pushing, but to the cathedral they're building.

And that creates significance. It creates meaning, it creates a vision and creates purpose. There's a there's a direct line between the activities, even the, you know, the good and bad weather that comes their way to the thing that they're headed towards. And this is why in many and many ways, like talking about the now is absolutely critical, but it's insufficient.

We have to talk about the not yet simultaneously. They're kind of wedged together. Where are you in the midst of the rock fishing of your life? And do you have a cathedral that you're pushing rocks toward? Is there anything in your world that you're connecting it to? And in my experience, it doesn't have to be as grand as a cathedral.

It could be as minimally viable as like, I just want to have a good reason to get out of bed today. Like that works. And, being around dear, friends and family and, and, you know, in my own life, moments where I like, I don't want to get out of bed. Like, I think it's it's plenty to have a you don't need a grand vision, but you need a vision.

Without a vision, people die. They perish. So a vision tied to what am I doing in the now is critical. And I think this is where so many people get discouraged. Either they're out of tune with whatever they're doing, they're just mindlessly pushing rocks, and they've kind of lost the tether to whether where they're headed or they're so lost in the vision.

They never get to work. They never push any rocks. They have too many vision boards and they're too much manifesting, you know, waiting and it's just hogwash. Like, you need both pieces. You can't just, wing and a prayer. Hope it works out. And it's not to say I'm not. For those of you who are like believers and you know, God and bigger things.

I'm one of those people, too. I'm not in any way discounting the reality of a higher power holding all this up. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is how do we participate with whatever is real in this world, and this is where it's critical. We need to be in tune with now and tie the now to the not yet.

Yeah, that's that's so important. And, and I think some of the ways to tie ourselves to the now is to be aware of the symptoms of our current reality. what I mean, I'm sure if we, as I say that there's a number of things that come up for people, they can think probably immediately of the, the different.

You know, things they don't like, things they don't have, they just don't like. Right. Yeah.

So, so but for those that, you know, might lack the, creativity or want a little, a nudge in the right direction, like, what are some of those symptoms that you've experienced?

Yeah. Like, in my experience, people, first of all, they notice they want something that they don't have, like just kind of as a broad category. They, they maybe they've had it sometime in their life historically, this thing, this experience in life, but it feels historic. It doesn't feel current. Like I think about, all my, like you, Mitch, all my friends who have little, your kids are little older than rug rats.

How old are your kids?

Six. Four and one and a half.

Yeah. Are you still. Are you out of diapers with the one and a half yet? Not yet. Yeah. So you're in the valley of the diapers, right? Like. Yeah. And whether it's a single parent or two parents or four parents, like, I don't know what it is. It's just it's just hard. It's, you know, it's just a notch above, like getting a puppy, and having to train a puppy for those first three weeks when you're not sure your marriage is going to make it, like there's those tough seasons where everything's just thrown off kilter.

It doesn't feel like you have any agency over your own life. This little being is just. Or beings are interrupting, taking away your sleep, stealing your money. it's just, you know, causing strife with you and whoever you're trying to do this with, if you're trying to deal with anybody. And, it's hard, it's really disorienting.

And in those moments, oftentimes when you're in the thick of having little kiddos and raising little kids and anyone, even if you don't have kids, you can relate to what I'm describing. You may think back to what was I doing with my time when I was, we were just like a series, a married couple, like we were just married or oh my gosh, I had so much time as a single person.

Why did I waste so much of it? It was. It's unbelievable. I could have like run marathons and written books and you know, what could I have done if I was only awake enough to realize how much time was about to be stolen from me? And will I ever have a day again where I can somehow access that level of freedom or liberty?

And the reason it's a helpful metaphor is because, you know, you can apply that in a lot of other categories, too. A couple years back, I tore my Achilles, and I went through a year of rehab and man, oh, man, I thought to just days before I tore my Achilles tendon how much I was resisting working out.

But you. I tell you what, when I lost the use of an entire leg for almost a year, at capacity, I would have given my left leg, my right leg to have a chance to work out. I was just so kind of hungry for it, because I knew if it wasn't until it was gone that I realized it.

And I think that's kind of the that global category we're talking about is something was there and it's not there, or you believe it should be there. And it isn't there. And you're craving so specific examples that you asked for, like let's say, the dad bod, you know, you, you get out of the shower and you glance in the mirror on the way to go, brush your teeth or dry off or whatever you're doing, and you go, who's that guy?

Like, that's not that's not me. And you pause and you look and you kind of flex and you try to do your thing. No one's looking, you know, you're like, do I still have it? You know, was it there used to be there. It's not there anymore. And it's like actually there's so much more there that it's hard to see that inner athlete that used to be there, or let's say it's in another category, it's like you're in business and you're an entrepreneur and you're working seven days a week feels like 20 hours a day.

You know, taking ground, you're crushing in one area of your life, but you made a massive trade off. You know, you're married to suffering or you don't really know your kids very well, or you've been on the road too much or and you just you're you're craving a different sense of, like. access to this, those relationships. Or it could be another category, like, man, you're so peaking.

You have so much energy gone, in your life. You're you're you're working so hard in one category. It could be parenting. It could be at work, it could be in school, even. And, you're just short with people. You're just kind of a jerk. You don't get your way and you whine about it. You're a victim to everything that happens in your world.

Like any of these categories count. Because it's not just the physical, it's the emotional, it's the reactions. It's the, the access to, the energy and the time and the resource that you're craving, to actually build your cathedral. Now, again, we haven't gotten to the cathedral yet, and that presents a second problem, which is sometimes people aren't clear on what they want, but they're clear what they have.

They don't like. And when they can name it and start articulating, gosh, where are the gaps? Where are the cravings, the things that I, I like at the least one of the things. Are you irritated by that you don't want that you have in plenty and you'd like a little less of it. I think that's worth taking pause and note, and even if you're listening, like, honestly, I did pause this video and I write some things down, like a handful of bullets.

Like, what are things symptomatically in my life that I don't like? There's a problem behind that symptom, but take a look at them first. Like name the symptoms. Like you're going to go to see the doctor. They're going to say, well, what are your symptoms? What are your symptoms. And to name those with specificity is a great first step.

What's happening that in your life that you don't want. That's happening. List them. And then from there you can go, well what's what's the problem. Like what's in the way. And if I could remove these things or do get rid of that problem, why would I like unto what would it, would it be worth the effort it takes to do that?

But that little exercise, figuring out what's going on that you don't like, and then contrasting that with what would you like in an exchange if you could trade it in that if we don't start there, it's very difficult to even consider designing your days.

Yeah. I want I want to zero in a little bit on kind of that exercise too, because just like when you go to the doctor for an evaluation, honesty is paramount. If you are going to the doctor and not listing a couple symptoms or things because you're, that's not connected or I'm ashamed of this or they don't need to know that, then they're going to be a lot less equipped to give you a proper diagnosis or to give you a plan.

so the same thing here, it's going to be uncomfortable anytime we sit with these things. Or it can be, but there is so much.

Value, right? When you said we'll be like, it's it's kind of choose your discomfort, right? It's going to be uncomfortable no matter what. Just get the highest grade discomfort you can find. and because if it's going to be the problem, get the upgrade your problems. And if your biggest problem is you're embarrassed to talk about reality, you really have a problem.

Like you got to go there first. So I couldn't agree more. Honesty is kind of a necessary ingredient here. Yeah. In candor, you know, courage. You're willing to say it out loud. Yeah. And. But these are listeners to strong and awake, bro. These people have that. They're not tuned in if they're not doing that.

This is true. This is true.

I'm not worried.

So we've got that as kind of a first assignment and first exercise. If you haven't already, pause and do that. what next. What do we do with these symptoms. You kind of spoke to like okay, these symptoms point to something. should we start to try to diagnose or categorize or figure out what that thing is?

Or is that getting ahead of ourselves?

It's a good question. I mean, I spent a lot of energy around trying to figure out the problem. Like, what's the real problem? What's the root under all these different things? And, it kind of depends, like if discovering the root gets us to, the vision, then I think it's a useful exercise. like, for example, if I'm constantly irritable and I realize the root of that is like, I'm just not getting enough sleep and I could figure out a vehicle to get more sleep and that just without any extra effort, just by sleeping like the rest of my world gets better.

and maybe you start going down that rabbit and you realize, like, well, I'm not getting sleep for a bunch of reasons. One I should be getting up for, for my kids and two, you know, I have a stressful job or whatever it is. Maybe there's other things going on, like, phones in our beds or, bad, you know, sleep hygiene at night before we go to sleep or not staying in bed long enough to get our body, even though we're like, we might wake up initially and think, oh, I should get up right now, when in reality you should actually hang in there for a few more minutes, maybe go to the

restroom, come back, lay down intentionally for 14 more minutes just to get an extra 25 minutes of sleep. It's worth it. It's worth practicing those things. But those are things those are solved. So I'm jumping ahead to that. But really the question of is, is a problem most important at this point or not? I'm not I'm not sure.

I do think you can draw a line pretty directly between the symptoms and the problem, and that's a good diagnosis. But I think in this case, if you don't go the road of establishing the problem, I think a lot of folks can go, well, I have these symptoms. If I don't, if I could wave a magic wand and have these symptoms go away, what would come back in their place?

Like what are what would what are signs of success? The signs that I'm I've gotten rid of the problem and the new thing has shown up. What would those signs be? So there's really four things to talk about. There's the problem in their symptoms and then there's success and proof that you're successful. you're the things you're experiencing there.

So I just think whatever plain you're talking about the problem solution of the symptoms and the symptoms, of success, I think those are indicators of success. I just want to be comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges. But oftentimes the problem and the solution, they become theoretical exercises like highly conceptual. And when we stay on the symptom level, we're talking about our real life.

What are we experiencing. And oftentimes that can be a little bit more concrete and helpful. But just know they're always tethered symptoms to problems. signs to success. So I think the next exercise for me would go like it's the easy one. It's the magic one question. Right. So whether you want to think about a deeply about problem solutions or the more the symptom side, if you could wave a magic wand and have what you're currently experiencing, go away and a new thing show up, what would you get?

What? What do you want in your life? That's why we're talking about what do you really want? Because it doesn't take a lot of mental energy just to identify what we don't like in our life. But if we're going to trade it in, oftentimes people fall short and they and they kind of despair. They're just pushing rocks and they never take pause long enough to go, well, even if I if I could push rocks onto something else and I have the same symptoms, but it was leading to something better and, more in line with my vision for my life.

What would that be? I think that's the right next step. What do I want? And for many people, like, there's questions after that too. Like it's what you want worth wanting. like, the actor, Matthew Perry, the guy from friends, who died. There's some really tragic, interviews with him. he just written just before he died.

He had written a book, and the book was kind of on his journey. And his. He went through a lot of addiction challenges and different things. But he. I saw this quote of his where he was talking about this prayer he had, that if God would just make him famous, but ever his God was, then that he would do whatever.

And it was kind of like a deal with the devil. That's what it felt like, honestly. And he's like. And then three days later, I got friends and I got what I asked for, and, but then my real prayer kicked in later because I didn't realize what came with all those things. And, there is a after you figure out what you want, there's like, is your what you want worth wanting is another question that's probably a good check on your vision because, you may want to be rich and famous and have no financially like financially independent and whatever.

And friends, mo money, mo problems. there's other things that come with these things. The best advice I've ever heard ever was, it's it's actually, from this Israeli named David back in the, in the Psalms, this Jewish dude who says, give me neither poverty nor wealth. If you give me poverty, I'll curse you. If you give me wealth, I'll forget you give me just my daily bread.

And I actually think there's something pretty profound about that. Like, all I really want is just what I want and no more. Because. No, if I add more to it, I might not be strong enough to handle it. I might, I might crumble, and I think that's a good trick of the devil. So what we really want is just enough and no more.

And for the life that we say we're trying to get after. And I'm going down some rabbit trails, but I have a hunch our listeners are tuned in enough to go. We're really painting is kind of a geography here of mapping your world and trying to sort out, where am I, where do I want to go? And without, hubris, without flying too close to the sun, like, you just make, make, make steps in the direction of who you want to become, not just what do you want to get, in your life?

And I think I think you're going to find it. It might be uncomfortable to go through that exercise, but highly doable. Like, with not a lot of effort, you can plot point. What don't I like in my life? And if I could trade it in, what would I who would I be instead? And even if you say like I would have these things, well then ask the question what kind of person do you need to be to have those things?

all of those are really useful exercises.

So just like we kind of express the importance of the, the now, the tactile, the embodied articulation and documentation of these symptoms, of the status quo. do you also recommend, instead of just saying, I want this job or I want a healthy relationship with my wife or my kids? Like, do you also recommend specifically naming what that looks like, the symptoms of that as well on the other side?

Yeah, like it doesn't be that complicated. Like if you go back to the shower example, you come into the shower, you look in the mirror, you don't like what you see. I'd like to get out the shower and like what I see. Pretty simple. That's an easy trait. And, I when I go to Home Depot and I don't get what I want, and I yell at this poor person that's getting paid, not very much money because I didn't get my way.

I'd like to be the kind of person that could actually bless people, could have people walk away feeling better than they did, can actually make their day so that it doesn't. My negative impact on them wouldn't ripple into their day and create other people's bad days. Like every jerk we know, somebody was probably a jerk to them.

And if I'm that jerk, I'm a part of that person being a jerk. so, like all those kinds of things. So what would I want instead? I like to, to bless them or, any of these examples work like, I like to not be overwhelmed by the bills that are coming in the mail constantly. Okay, great. What would you like instead?

Well, I'd like to have actually paid my bills to be the kind of person that was in that position. And make no mistake, like, that last example is a helpful one. Those are two plot points on a map. There's a big difficult challenge between A and B, right? Like you're in debt. You'd like to not be in debt.

You like to be free from debt. well, dial up Dave Ramsey. He'll walk you through the steps. But the point is simply, it's going to be uncomfortable. Guaranteed. But until you get to that, don't even worry about the discomfort part. All we're doing right now is figuring out before and after we're going to get to that other part later.

And I think that other part deserves its own straight up conversation. But right now, these are stages. And the first stage is really to get a sense of what is current reality. Where are you and what's your preferred future? Where would you like to be? So whatever categories I'm getting, I've probably been overly technical in this conversation, but just start with those two lists and they can be like direct parallels.

Like, I don't like how I look in the shower. I do look like how I look in the shower. Perfect. Go to the next category and try to be pretty exhaustive. What else? What else could you change in your life if you could not sing? Can, but if you could, let's start naming those things. And I think that's that's the beginning of the of the story.

Now, I already know where this conversation is going, and it's going to be kind of reserved as we unpack this for future episodes. But to those people that have gotten this far in this episode and are still like, okay, great, that sounds great. But like, let me get to the actual action. Like, let me start doing things like, I already know what I need to do.

Well, like, what do you say to those people that want to skip this step or skip this, this stage?

Yeah, you're going to go slower. You're actually you're not going to get what you want, faster by skipping the stage, you're actually going to disqualify yourself from getting what you say you want because you never said what you wanted. You'll never actually know if you, got it because you never named it. And the irony is, I think a lot oftentimes people forget this part.

If, if I want a change in my life and I haven't defined a vision with crystal clarity, I'm disqualified. But the other side of it is when I start painting a picture of my vision with crystal clarity, like nuanced color, texture, feel, all of it. I'm actually increasing my motivation to get it when it's kind of out of focus and vague and unclear.

I can I can kind of be discouraged pretty quickly. I can kind of get thrown off that mission. And I actually think this is some of the best exercise you can do. In fact, even after you get on the road, we're going to get on the road very quickly. relatively speaking, you still want to keep coming back and remind yourself of the cathedral that you're pushing rocks towards, because you're going to forget even that.

So the more vivid the vision, the greater the motivation.

well, I think that's an appropriate spot to land on. You took us from A to B, from Sisyphus to Icarus. Yeah. And everything in between.

I will say this. And maybe this is a bit of a teaser because I think it's helpful. I recognize that the people who are listening, this conversation, this is not the first rodeo they've tried to change. they're smart people who tried hard things, and they've just been discouraged. They're like, should I really? I should I really try again?

Like, what's the point? Maybe it's better just to push rocks and and drink a little bit on Friday night, like get to get to Friday and have a vacation and retire and die like set our standards as low as we can. and I get why people are discouraged, I really do. I think there's a lot of prescriptions in the marketplace for like, promises for how to find your way to what we're describing, this promised land out there that I think deserves some really focused attention.

There's reasons why the things you've tried haven't worked, and it's not really about you. It's not your fault. there's some fundamental gaps in a lot of the offerings, because we live in a world where the easiest way to sell something is make it pleasurable, make it comfortable, make it, convenient. quick, easy. Why do an eight minute abs when you can do the four minute apps like.

And this is the these false promises that are out in the marketplace. And the marketers behind these products and services are incentivized to overpromise and under deliver because we keep buying. Right? Because we're so, you know, hungry for change, to, to find a way to swim against the current. And this is what at the very least, in our next episode, we will talk about why certain things don't work and why you like some tests you can put up against anything that you're considering to see if they're worth trying or not.

or are you just going back to the well of bad ideas and, things that we know? By the way, these are not our ideas. These are ideas that have been around for millennia, but they're just largely, practiced or they're hidden from the, the, the megaphones of this sort of popular culture or, and to be fair, some of them are actually coming online more and more, people are so dissatisfied with the marketplace of selling convenience and comfort.

there's more and more practitioners who are saying out loud like, hey, we have other options on the table, and we're just we're just in line with the lowest group of people. but I think it starts with going like, hey, you've tried things and they haven't worked. Let's understand why. And you can take those learnings and apply this directly to something you might consider in the future and decide if it's worth your time or not.

So I think that's a great place to go to next and I think will really help. if nothing else, help you feel better about why things didn't work out and how to extract some learnings from those experiences so that you can do it more intelligently in the future.

Well, you heard it here. First. Tune in, tune in to our next episode and it should be live. to jump in the next conversation. But don't do it before going through this exercise.

Yeah, it's just an easy but paint a picture before and after. Talk about your current reality and your preferred future. Stay like ruthless to stay on those two lanes and we'll have this next episode up lickety split. You'll jump in and it'll make a lot of sense, I promise you. And I think it'll be it'll be helpful.

So with that, can't wait to be together next time.

Likewise. Thanks, Dane.

Thanks, Mitch. Men and Women of Discomfort is our membership community and we are open to everyone. But keep in mind our tagline is it's probably not for you if we're wrong about that or if you want to find out for yourself, you can find us at MWOD.io.

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