In 2011, I suffered a severe injury. I tore a pectoral muscle while bench pressing. I was shocked and angry at myself. Why, 7 years after college sports, was I lifting heavy weights? Now, as an instructor pilot in the Navy, I couldn't fly, I couldn't workout, and I had a painful surgery and long recovery ahead. I was consumed with sadness and self-loathing. 

Leading up to this incident, I was a skeptic. I'd roll my eyes at stories of silver linings and turning lemons to lemonade. Sure, there might be some good outcomes from a 'positive mental attitude,' but not in most cases. My first reaction was to dwell on my misery and irresponsibility. 

But I had an entrepreneurial itch. Was this the best opportunity to take a shot at creating something with energy, inspiration, and purpose?

During my Naval career, jumping rope became my favorite fitness tool. It was portable for all my traveling and always a fun challenge compared to boring cardio routines. 

Even better - I discovered weighted ropes. An amazing workout I didn't know existed. The ones I used broke due to terrible designs, but a seed was planted.

What about a Cross-training jump rope? Amazing quality with ropes that can be swapped to provide an awesome variety of jump rope fitness experiences ... 'Crossrope.'

I didn't have any business or fitness industry experience. Just a library card and determination. Many founders are touted as visionaries who saw the future and took bold action. I laugh because my experience has been the opposite. I began fearful of failure, but now Crossrope has far eclipsed what I could have imagined. That is a testament to the incredible team we've built that brings energy, talent, and purpose. Crossrope is definitely a different way to find joy in getting healthy and staying fit.

Though there are many influences shaping our culture, but I love our core value of striving for continuous improvement. We bring enthusiastic efforts to employee experience, customer experience, and product development, synthesizing internal innovative ideas with customer feedback. It's been incredible to see the life-changing experience shares of our customers, the successes of our team, and momentum of Crossrope. I'm filled with gratitude every day and excited for the path we're on.

If the idea of striving to become world-class at what you do in support of a mission to bring joy, confidence, and inspiration through jump rope fitness sounds interesting, take a look at our job openings or shoot me a note. We're excited to continue building an amazing team!

Where to find David Hunt

Website: www.crossrope.com

• Instagram: @crossropejumpropes
• Tiktok: @crossropedave
• Youtube: Crossrope Jump Ropes
• LinkedIn: David Hunt

SPONSOR

This episode is sponsored by Entire Productions- Creating events (both in-person and virtual) that don't suck! and Entire Productions Marketing- carefully curated premium gifting and branded promo items. 

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I would say to anyone out there that hasn't been through the

process, one of the very best things to do is to try to get connected

to some entrepreneur, some business owner that's done it before because

they're happy to pay it forward and share the trials and tribulations.

And I think most of all help them hopefully avoid some of the mistakes

that are inevitable along the path.

Welcome to FASCINATING ENTREPRENEURS.

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Are they building to exit these and a myriad of other topics will be discussed

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try your local indie bookstore too.

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Thank you so much.

David Hunt was a Pilot in the Navy and suffered an injury while bench

pressing during his recovery.

He jotted down some ideas for a business that ended up being Crossrope.

We talk about how he worked part-time at first, what happened to the business

during the pandemic and how they managed their incredible marketing.

Now let's get right into it.

I had some early entrepreneurial ideas.

One of 'em was when I was a sophomore in college, I did jumping sports go

figure, and I wanted to create this digital vertical jump measuring device.

And I had taken some engineering classes.

And I went to one of those invention submission corporation offices.

The ones that advertise on TV will help you with your

invention and I'm 19 years old.

So I'm feeling good about taking the initiative and trying to get this

thing figured out, but I just felt that kind of this short cut route.

Something just felt a little off.

And I know there are people that have gone that route and they get something

patented and it all works out, but they wanted X amount of money for

this and this amount to market it.

And so when I got injured in 2011, it was difficult to manage mentally.

But one thing that I did realize I had was quite a bit of time.

And the entrepreneurial itch from that original idea had stuck

with me through all those years.

It burned like maybe that wasn't the right avenue, but I really wish I had

created this product that solves a problem for me and all the things that I enjoy.

And so I think the ultimate impetus to get over the fear.

Oddly enough, more of a fear that if I didn't take this opportunity to

try something, I'd really regret it.

So ironically enough, it was the fear of not doing it that pushed me over the top

to give it in a shot and going for it.

So you were injured and you were in the Navy, correct?

Yes.

And so during the time you're developing the idea

for the product and the service.

I think it's both.

Maybe you can correct me to me as a customer.

It feels like both, but anyway.

Yes.

Were you working somewhere at the time?

Were you on leave?

How did you spend your time?

Sure.

I started working on it as I guess, a side.

I don't know if side hustle had been coined back then, but in essence, a side

hustle and it was a fairly serious injury.

I was still active duty in the Navy and I still had certain

duties, but I couldn't fly.

I couldn't work out.

I was limited in my capacity and that allowed me enough time to be able to

start to get the idea off the ground, to take the nights and weekends.

And it was actually a part-time job until 2016.

So I launched it in 2012 and-

Wow.

for four years, up through 2016, I was still active duty in the Navy.

What was your revenue like during those first few years?

So the first year was about seven months and it was $57,000.

And what's interesting about that is that it had actually

greatly exceeded my expectations.

I remember what I was going-

What I was saying, you should have been happy about that.

I was, and I went to go incorporate as a business and

the individual, the accountant that was gonna help me with it

said just rough estimate, ballpark.

What do you think you'll sell in the first year?

And I told him $3,000, that was my target.

And you kinda have a little bit of that imposter syndrome and you don't

know how it's all gonna pair out.

And then the first time I ever used an accountant, I had booked a $10,000 loss on

$57,000 in sales and he said to me, if I were you, I would never go on shark tank.

. And I said, so that's a interesting, but random comment.

Why not?

And he said, because I don't think they'd take you seriously.

At some point, you're gonna need to make money in order for the IRS to

consider this to be a real business.

And

Right.

that bothered me so much.

And just it's the little experiences like that.

I think make us resilient and motivate us.

But yeah, started with 57K that first year.

Wow.

That's quite the comment from that person.

And that would get me.

I would be like, I'm gonna prove you wrong.

I'm gonna do incredibly well.

And I'm gonna go to shark tank.

I'm gonna get the offers and I'm gonna turn them down.

Exactly.

That's exactly what happen if that, to me.

So the next question I had for you.

We didn't really talk about, but how long from the idea of your

product to actually selling one?

Yes.

So I remember the dates fairly specifically, so I got injured

July 1st, 2011, and I was, so I think I'm very cognizant of mental

health and things of that nature.

And so I don't want to use any like clinical term, but I was

in a very despondent state.

I was so angry at myself around the injury.

And so in order to snap out of the negative mentality.

I within probably, and I got surgery on July 11th.

Within that first week, I had a notebook out with ideas.

Wow.

And the way that the process went is I was newly married.

And I had five or six different ideas, frankly.

I don't remember what the other ones were.

And-

I wanna find that notebook.

Yeah, I know.

I feel like it's gotta be somewhere.

I gotta dig it up because I'm curious if any of them were any good.

But what was interesting is when I ran the ideas by my wife, she's very direct.

She's supportive.

But she won't tell me something that she thinks that I want to hear.

And the interchangeable jump rope idea was the one that she said

that makes sense and could work.

That's interesting.

And so July 11th is what I consider to be, or shortly within that first week is when

I formalized and came up with the idea.

And then May 29th, 2012 was when.

The website went up and launched and we had our first sale, so just under a year.

Okay.

And so are you manufacturing locally in the United States?

Did you go overseas?

What was that for you, that journey of discovery?

Yes.

Journey of discovery is certainly the right phrase for it

because I didn't have any idea.

It was at the level where you don't even know what books to check out

from the library, cuz you don't know the right terms to look for.

I love that you check out books at the library seriously.

I mean we're such a goggleable society now that going to the library seems

ancient, but it is incredible resource.

It's a different way for discovery and the level of content

that you'll find you still can't find it on the internet, the same

way that you find it in the library.

So that was my early business lessons and teaching on everything from, I

drafted my own provisional patent the first time through, I would not

recommend that upon anyone else, but you're trying to stay as lean as possible

and you're learning along the way.

And so in essence, for the manufacturing piece of it, which was a big challenge,

I really wanted to try to make something out of preexisting parts and

components to validate the process.

I've seen others that go and they pay for the expensive molds and the

tooling, and they take years and look for some I'm not judgmental, right?

For some products and business opportunities.

You have to do that.

For this one, it was really Google search for handles that have ball bearings.

It was going to Lowe's and Home Depot.

And it was a really interesting journey that led the first version of it, to be

made out of deconstructed, nunchucks and fishing, lure components and my cable-

My dad is gonna love this.

What was so interesting and then insightful is I had started to learn

a little bit about MVPs and go ahead and put out something to validate the process.

And of course the risk is if it doesn't work the right way, or if it's so bad,

you might never get off the ground.

But what was interesting is even though I was slightly embarrassed

of this product and ashamed to say I had used preexisting components

from nunchucks and fishing lures.

It actually worked very well.

And so when I started to get feedback on it from people that I didn't know

that liked it and thought it was a good idea, it was very validating.

So it started with manufacturing in my house.

In my garage.

I found a cable manufacturer all along the way, knowing that with

this being a more premium product manufacturing state side, wasn't going

to be a feasible long-term objective.

And I was fortunate to get introduced to a sourcing partner over in China

that we're still with and he, and-

Let's stop right there and talk about how did you source that person?

Because I think the barrier to entry is pretty great.

I will assume that you weren't an EO at that point.

I was not.

So did not qualify where did you find this resource?

I was lucky.

I had one other Navy friend that I knew that had gotten out to go

the entrepreneurial route and asked him they had done some interesting

sort of 50 caliber based jewelry.

So they gave a percentage of their profits back to veteran

funds and things of that nature, but he was a helpful guy at the outset.

And so he knew a couple individuals that had done some sourcing.

They actually didn't work out, even though it didn't work out.

I didn't know anybody else to go to.

So I went back to him.

And he introduced me to some former army guys that had a good experience

with a sourcing coordinator that they had met in Chicago that lived overseas

and understood the space . And so I think it was the confluence of looking

across my network just to find anyone.

That might have some leads that they can refer.

And then just the patients to try to convey the vision-

You could've find it from the library though.

The library.

Yes.

And now I think there are more resources, but I would say to anyone out there that

hasn't been through the process, one of the very best things to do is to try to

get connected to some entrepreneur, some business owner that's done it before

because they're happy to pay it forward and share the trials and tribulations.

And I think most of all help them hopefully avoid some of the mistakes

that are inevitable along the path.

Okay, this is the question that I've been dying to ask you, based

on my own experience with your brand, when was your tipping point of success?

Ooh, that's a good one.

And I appreciate the question.

It's interesting because like I had mentioned when I was act duty in the Navy,

at some point I had to make a commitment to go for it and to run it full time.

And of course, as an aviator in the Navy and with a wife

and kids, I had bills to pay.

I didn't have quite the latitude.

I didn't have a lot of savings.

I didn't.

Access to capital or parents or any of those sorts of things.

And so the original plan was that I had owed one more year on my Navy

service obligation and would get out.

But after one more year, things never go quite as fast and smoothly

as you think they're gonna go.

And so I had extended for four years till 2016, and I had a nasty surprise.

Five months out from when I was gonna be getting out full time.

What happened was I hadn't paid myself any money from the business all

the way up through the end of 2015.

So you're talking three years into business.

Still hadn't paid myself anything.

And not only that, but in the first quarter of 2016,

our revenues were down 20%.

So I'm not a panicking sort of person , but I was getting pretty close.

So I had a business coach that.

You've learned a lot.

You've done a lot.

You have the drive to be successful.

This may not be your thing.

Maybe there's other things you can get a job.

And this is my coach and I like him and I very much respect him.

It lit a fire under me that I've gotta figure this out.

So the tipping point was two things in 2016 and it was very timely.

The first one is, and I don't necessarily like plugging things, but

the first one was reading traction.

I think implementing EOS for us.

Yeah, there's lots of good systems.

I advocate for any system that works, but for us, that one really helped to

get a sense of organizational structure.

And I think it helped to reduce the sense of imposter syndrome.

It felt like we knew some real business organizational things to

focus on and in doing so we got our scorecard clear, we got our metrics

clear on what we needed to focus.

And the second facet of that is that we had found these partners, these creators

on YouTube, who at the time had a thousand followers were just getting started out,

actually already had our product and liked it and entered into a relationship.

And in 2016, they started to go viral on YouTube and they went from a

thousand followers to 50,000 followers.

And so the end of the story that year in.

Yep.

The end of the story and why it was a turning point, is that not only do we

end up having 40% revenue, 5%, but we were profitable at a level that I was

able to comfortably make that transition and onwards and upwards from there.

So very, I still feel very grateful.

You create your own luck, but there's an element of luck to the timing.

And that was definitely present here.

Okay.

So that was a different answer than I expected from my vantage point.

And what I'd like to share with you and ask you about is during the pandemic.

I saw you everywhere.

And I didn't know that you were in my Etrepreneur's Organization.

And so you were just this like amazing product that just came to market.

That was my, that's what it looked like to me and the ads were great

and your, a buy was so great too.

So I would've estimated that your tipping point or the big

push would've happened during the pandemic, talk to me about that time.

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Yes.

In essence, I think the first one was like the viability tipping

point and the second one was an on the map tipping point.

So you're right.

It was an interesting time and the perspective that we first

of all, just to give a little bit of insight in the back end.

I remember in March.

There started to be whispers of COVID and what was gonna happen.

And I don't know if you remember Natasha, but it was like

right around, like March 17th.

I remember like March 15th, 16th, 17th, there was the Laker that

got COVID and then there was kind some of these big names.

And so something happened.

On March 19, we had an event planned.

A $500,000 event plan for over 800 people that had to be canceled.

Oh my God.

So that date burns.

Well, and that's one of the, I think really paradoxical

things about the impact of COVID on different businesses, right?

Because there's not really words to describe her and capsulate the type

of experiences, largely negative across the globe that will go on

and have second and third order effects for years and years to come.

And for us and for some other businesses, that's what put us into this weird spot

of wanting to be helpful and supportive and not celebratory of something that

was adverse, but taking the perspective that we offered something that hopefully

was a positive impact at an adverse time.

And that the incidents of COVID really served as a megaphone

for what we were already doing.

We didn't change our tactics or our strategies.

We didn't try to take advantage of the situation.

We simply felt like we had a platform where more and more people were

interested in this idea of how they could get an effective health and

wellness and fitness routine at home, maybe with a form of training

that they hadn't experienced before.

And so really, from March to may, if you take mid-March to mid-May our

sales 10x and its just like it's, I think it's hard for people to fathom-

that's

it's insane.

Within the pandemic timeline.

Yes.

That people picked up on that because during those

months we were still being told two weeks, couple more weeks.

Maybe two months, like there was no like huge gloom and

doom yet, but that's amazing.

So let's talk about what happened the rest of the next couple of years.

Yes.

I think what I've put a lot of reflection into is that first of all,

the importance of humility is because the pendulum always swings both ways.

I think success gets a level of confidence that.

Take away from innate humility, but it puts you into a position where

you're focusing your energies in a different way on what the future holds

on the decisions you should be making.

And I think the reminder on the humility is useful for making decisions to

remember that we don't know how things are gonna manifest in what's gonna happen.

And so even though 2020 was a game changing year for the business, I

think what a lot of founders and then particularly in the fitness space,

particularly in the connected fitness space, particularly in eCommerce found

that this idea of the new normal.

Didn't necessarily play out.

A lot of demand was pulled forward.

So customers that you might have had in 20 21, 20 22, 2023 were all

customers that you had in 2020.

And so we're still very proud of what we've built.

And we still feel that we are at a level as an organization and a brand

that is likely above where we would've been and we not had that platform.

And yet by the same token, that's one of those, I call it like the Peloton effect.

If anybody's followed Peloton stock,

I wasn't gonna mention it, but

and I've got no qualms, right?

Like I view it's rising tide raises all ships.

Sure.

I believe anybody contributing to health and wellness in whatever

capacity is doing something positive and you have to face the realities

of competition in a marketplace.

But I think when you look at them as the bellwether in the space and you

see the market cap peaked at 50 billion and it's slightly under four right now.

And that may not be directly relevant to all other connected fitness or

all other health and wellness spaces, but it certainly is a reasonable

representation of the overall macro factors because people want

to go out and travel and maybe,

oh yeah

self care is in different places and locations.

And so we've had a lot of great opportunities to really refine

and think through what our growth strategy is gonna be moving forward.

Were you the highest revenue of all time in 2020 and 21?

Yes.

2020 was our peak.

And I think part of the reason why is because we're very

systems and production oriented.

So we actually never stocked out in 2020 because we were able to

ramp up production because we were able to sort out logistics.

Whereas I think a lot of companies that

Wow, you did had a supply chain shipping situation nailed.

There were challenges.

But one advantage that we had is that even though air freight rates

had gone up so much, customer acquisition was so inexpensive.

In 2020 that we could pay.

That was a super toter balance.

Exactly.

We could afford to pay for whatever we needed to fulfill the demand.

And once we were able to get production ramped up.

So 2020 was a peak down a little bit from that in 2021.

And we think that this year will be somewhere in the realm of where we were in

20, 21, maybe down a little bit, but with a lot of exciting things in the horizon.

And I think a conviction around the idea that this is a category

expansion opportunity, right?

There isn't an established jump rope market.

That's a joke, right?

Like it's more of this idea of could jumping rope be something that's in with

somebody's health and wellness routine.

Cause there's a lot of amazing benefits and we look to the very best experience.

I watching a lot of incredible jump

ropers that are doing tricks.

And I follow this woman in London.

Who's 60, who's just killing it.

I'm not sure if they're using your ropes, but it doesn't matter.

Because it's all contributing to your brand one way or the other.

I don't know if she's using your ropes, but I know of your ropes.

And if I wanna be like her, I'm just gonna get your ropes.

I'm glad that you brought that up cuz it's another one of

those rising tide raises all ships.

And it's funny because there's a ton of amazing jump rope creators.

And sometimes there's, it even seems like there's these little

tensions and these little rivalries and this competitive element.

And I wanna bring everybody together and say, Hey, there's

just not enough people jumping.

We're not losing out.

Also to that end.

Our focus within jump rope is really strongly in the jump rope fitness realm.

And what I mean by that is that.

You're implementing some form of a workout around the weights of ropes and integrated

with body weight exercises in a way that's intended to get really efficient

and well rounded fitness results.

Whereas of course, if you're doing any jumping, it's good for

fitness, but there's this whole realm of jump roping for tricks.

And it's what on America's got talent and it's what you'll see in Cirque du Soleil.

And it's all amazing things beyond what I could ever imagine myself or others in our

community doing, but what it's great for, even if that's not our specialty, even if

we don't make that sort of rope, is it.

Inspires people and it captures their attention and it brings awareness.

And so that's genuinely my perspective on it when I see

anybody new doing amazing things.

I just wanna tell you a little secret that I'm pretty sure

you don't know about me, that I had this dream to learn how to double-dutch

jump rope maybe 10 years ago.

And to me, I just couldn't conceive of how you do it.

And then I took a class and now I can do all these double-dutch jump rope

tricks so it's my like secret thing.

Now.

I know we're not doing that with your weighted ropes, but it's relevant.

OK.

It's totally relevant.

Yeah.

And I love that.

And I have a lot of respect too, because believe it or not, until about a year

ago, I had never tried double-dutch.

I'm like almost embarrassed to admit that.

And we had team week and two of our team members brought some double-dutch

ropes and everybody on the team.

That's so much fun.

Had a chance to jump in the fun is what it's all about.

It's I'd call it like double-dutch.

And some of the playground stuff is like the gateway drug.

If you will, to jump rope training, cuz if it starts out fun and it's something

that you're interested in trying, it becomes a habit that's more sustainable.

So that's awesome that you do double-dutch and you can probably smoke me.

We'll have to try it sometime.

We'll try it next year at MIT.

Yes.

So I wanna know your secret to the social media marketing.

Did you have a different team than you ever had before during the pandemic?

Or did you find someone new?

And if you wanna say who it is, that'd be awesome too.

Yeah.

Sure.

When I had started and was solo in it, it felt like the world of the internet

was the best place to move quickly.

And so to that end, I became interested in learning about the various online

marketing and growth strategies and got a little bit into the growth hacker circles.

And you learn the various platforms.

And I was so fortunate that early on in 2012, there was a gentleman up in Toronto.

That had reached out saying, Hey, I have a fitness blog.

People always ask me what jump ropes I recommend.

And I haven't really had a go to, but yours looks interesting and different.

And if I like it, maybe we can partner up.

Interestingly enough, I knew who he was because at the time he had the most.

View jump rope, video on YouTube.

It had over a million views.

And so I was thrilled to partner up.

And so we did some affiliate work and then contract work.

And then he came on in 2016 as head of digital marketing.

And now he's our chief marketing officer.

So he's been with us for.

Full time for seven years, but we've known each other for 10 years.

His name is Serge Popovich and he runs an internal team that

coordinates on the campaign execution.

But then we use multiple agencies across different areas.

So in 2020 part of the difference.

And part of what individuals were seeing was an expansion of the

number of agencies that we used.

And I'm happy to share names of anyones that we did or didn't use as

long as it's not too long of a list, but I think it would be surprising to

people cuz we used a Facebook agency.

We used an agency for all of our Google and YouTube spend.

We used an agency for our branding and industrial design.

We use an agency for our influencer marketing at the time we used

an affiliate marketing agency.

We used a creative agency.

We used a creative contractor and I think with regard to what would've been seen.

Online on the ad creative.

The influencer marketing agency that we worked with is called village

marketing out of New York city.

And they're fantastic.

They had worked with brands like SoulCycle and some other iconic

sort of consumer facing brands.

And we don't currently work with them, but not because they're not great, just

because as everything started to come back down to reality, we wanted to make sure

that we learned that skillset internally.

And then on the Google side for running our ads and executing, we

an agency called Digital Position.

That's been fantastic for us and they do SEO and things of that nature.

And so those are two that we use during the pandemic that we still use, that

I highly recommend and happy to make intros, but definitely great to have

partners that you trust to understand what you're trying to execute on and

then have an internal team that knows enough about what's going on to give

the direction of those partners.

Was it your CMOs idea to go out to these various agencies

rather than try to fit all in one agency, because a lot of agencies

will say, yeah, we can do that.

We can do your SEO.

We can, your Facebook and your TikTok and your Google ad buys.

But really it is a specialty.

And so was it his thinking that you should.

Spread yourself out.

It's interesting because we're also fortunate to have a very established

and accomplished eCommerce consultant.

And so he's been a trusted partner for about five years now and he works almost

exclusively with consumer facing brands.

And what is amazing is he has.

Sense of the relative skill level and capacity of the various agencies.

And then he has the blueprints from the clients that he works with,

that have used them that have had adverse results versus good results.

And so when we enter into strategic discussions, we look at our relative

spend plan in the various areas.

And a lot of times what it is, if we feel like we're going to invest

enough in creative, in Facebook, in Google, in TikTok, once we feel the

spend level is commensurate to I.

Meet the prerequisite spend amounts that make sense for an agency he'll make

the introductions and recommendations, but we're all believers in doing our

best to learn and understand it at the outset and not just abdicate it and say,

"Hey, we don't wanna know about this.

We don't do that."

And so it was a combination of the CMO, the consultants in my perspectives

in believing that as those spends get high enough, a couple percentage

points difference in efficacy from an agency that you can trust that has

credibility can make all the difference.

For instance in the outcome.

And that's how we came about those decisions in 2020.

The last question I wanna talk to you about is you have

a successful business that really grew over the pandemic and it's

settling into itself now, right?

Cause you have to face the new reality.

What is the number one challenge that you're as a business owner today?

July 21st.

I think in broad terms, it's interesting to have

to manage a lot of inflationary pressures on the expense side.

At the same time, you're recalibrating it for a contracting environment.

At a very broad level, but it's not one set thing.

It's we have a great culture and a great team and great people,

but there still is inflation.

And there's still a lot of pressures within the job market and they

all deserve to be valued and treated and compensated properly.

And so it doesn't matter that business is contracting in terms of the

value that they bring and deliver.

So that's definitely a challenge.

The input costs on manufacturing, freight tariffs.

The agency costs because the agencies that we're working with are also

having the same labor issues.

And so I know I rattled off a couple things, but I think it fits within

this realm of, for organizations that are still growing quickly.

I think it's easier to dampen the perceived effect of

the inflationary pressures.

Ended up being so insidious about, and maybe that's too harsh of a word, but

about the massive growth during COVID, because I've seen and heard just many

stories that through the best forecasting the founders and the leadership could

have made, nobody can tell the future and it almost ended up, setting up a

failure, as things started to settle back into what nobody could have forecasted.

So I feel proud of the way that we are managing that right now and

coordinating with our team and our vendors and still having a good

year by it's all relative, right.

By most standards, still having a good year.

Yeah.

But I also feel that challenge may continue for a bit.

And so we're trying to be prudent and conservative on how the confluence

of those two factors will help us to make commensurate and prudent

decisions for our growth plans so that we don't overextend or over invest.

For more information, go to the show notes where you

are listening to this podcast.

Wanna know more about me go to my website, OfficialNatashaMiller.com.

Thank you so much for listening.

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I'm Natasha Miller and you've been listening to FASCINATING ENTREPRENEURS.