We hear how Giles got into the food and beverages industry, what life was like building Innocent Drinks, his ethics on work / life balance and how investors should treat founders, and what he's most excited about for his current portfolio of projects .. all that plus more.

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Hello and welcome to Bwb Extra where we get to know serial entrepreneur and investor Gil Brook a little better.

We hear how Giles got into the food and beverage industry, what life was like building innocent drinks, his ethics on work life balance, and how investors should treat founders and what he's most excited about for his current portfolio of projects.

Okay, so let's wind the clock back to Young Giles.

Fresh-faced, how did you end up doing what you're doing?

Yeah, so I've, I've, I'm literally, I'm a bit of a consumer good lifer.

So I, I did food marketing at Newcastle Uni.

Jordy land food marketing does not sound like a, it's about, well I about to save you about just about six or eight, six to eight hours a week.

Most of my friends thought it was basically coloring in stroke, scratching sniffer page to see what you know and tell what the smell was, that sort of thing.

So yeah, so I did that.

Um, and then essentially I've kind of.

I've always wanted to go into food and drink.

I started off United Biscuits, went to Coca-Cola, then went to Innocent.

Really enjoyed innocent, some great guys there.

Had a really lot of fun on the board there.

Coke came into the deal, the boys wanted me to stay on, but I just harbored ambitions to do my own thing.

So kind of met Andrew and Haley and obviously launched Bear with them and then obviously also met their invest in the, and the Vita Cocoa guys and we did the coconut water.

And then since then, you know, kind of developed a portfolio and.

You know, it's, I'm just lucky because I'm doing exactly what I always loved and I love doing, um, not everything's in food and drink.

Now I've got, you know, I've got a couple of really exciting household sustainable brands and Neat.

Which is an eco cleaning brand, which is taken one.

Yes, we are your client.

I know.

Yes.

There we go.

And then also, you know, the cheeky panda as well.

So, you know, there's some really exciting, you know, brands in there and it's just about, It's doing stuff I enjoy with, but as I said to you, it's about doing, it's, it's as much about the people as well as the brand or the category.

Are your parents into food and drink?

Where's this?

No, my dad, well that, that's when I was lucky actually, cuz my, my father was in textiles, but I was brought up in a way which was, Holidays, not holidays.

You're working every holiday and stuff like that.

So I always used to work within the business.

So actually I think I got some business acumen pretty early on.

Oh wow.

So during the holidays you put to work Yeah, work.

And in textiles, he, he was manufacturing textiles.

Yeah.

So he was an agent or manufacturer.

So basically he would provide the wool or the yarn or whatever it was.

To the knitters who would knit it up for garments for the different, you know, back then it was all the people like Top Shop and stuff like that, but obviously later it became like Asda with George and stuff like that.

And he did that.

But again, it was a very much a, it was a very tough, um, industry cuz like most things, guess what, it was a lot cheaper to, to produce abroad.

So of course the whole taxon industry, you know, unfortunately became a, a massive importer rather than a, um, self-sufficient UK business.

But that, that was great.

I, I, I really en.

You know, enjoy doing that.

But it was, it was tough.

Really tough doing that.

Okay.

That's, that explains a lot that, that gives you the grit of sort of, you know, knowing what run a business.

In fact, growing up in a family business.

Yeah.

And I remember, I remember, you know, I could, I could say this dad, bless him, used to pick up bad debts the whole time because it was such a, Turbulent industry and there was so little margin in it.

And of course at the mercy of the big guys back then, we'd pick up bad debts the whole time.

I remember, you know, dub was based in Lester and we'd be jumping in the van and we'd have to break into factories to go and try and get our pro go and get the the stuff back to try and recover as much money as we could.

Cuz that's what it had to be cuz he didn't.

Cuz of course what's happening back then as well was that, and I think it still happens today, is that the day before the business went bust, everybody would buy the assets back off the business.

I eat like the knitting machines for like a pound.

Clear all the debts and start up on the same site the next day.

And, and of course we had an issue with that and I didn't, and my dad had an issue with that, so we'd go in there and get back what wasn't rightly ours.

The innocent thing is interesting because so many, like, it seemed to be a place that attracted kind of entrepreneurial people.

Honestly.

You're surrounded by people that meet you look average every day.

I was, I I, I bluff my way in there.

I got in there somehow because I'm.

I'm not very academic at all.

I'm fairly commercial and bright, so I managed to get my way, but I've never been in a building with more academic and brighter people in my life.

I mean, I couldn't, I mean, board meetings, I mean, you met people like Jamie Mitchell.

Yeah, I probably understood two and five words.

So I was there with a fau like, hi, like Jamie.

Jamie Mitchell's a, is he, so Jamie, Jamie was a, he was a, he was basically the MD for a while.

He's great, great guy.

I sat on the board with him at Innocent.

He went on and did Tom Dixon, and then also, I think he's chairman for the gao.

Grill guys at the moment.

Oh, okay.

He's a lovely guy.

But it was a, it was a real Andy Warhol factory of sort.

Yeah, he was Harvard, you know, he lectured at London Business School.

I was like, I'd like, I'd be like a what?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But you could sort of tell people that spun out of innocent and did their own thing because the kind of ethos and the packaging and all that stuff, I, I always like quite similar to do pop into Sears cuz it's nearby me.

Yeah.

And I was, did people, because I was like, they fucking crazy suggest they did.

We had load of people, massive fridge by the front door with, with bags next to it where you could just help yourself really about Barry.

Barry was one of innocent's gracious fans, and he would regularly pop in the office.

Barry would, would he?

And he had the whole tattoo.

Tattoo and that tattoo and everything.

Wow.

An innocent tattoo.

He's quite a cool word, actually.

Quite indeed.

Tattoo?

Yeah, innocent.

Oh, have you got another one that says Guilty?

Guilty.

Yeah.

Everybody wanted innocent to launch an alcohol called guilty, right?

Mm.

An alcohol smooth that, that would be quite a good idea.

But it was one of those things where everybody wanted to go down and get things signed.

Because you've come back with bags of the stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Particularly when you, they were doing the veg pots and stuff.

You could come back with food for a week.

So do you have a long term girl?

I'm probably living it now, right?

I'm, I'm lucky and I, I mentioned to Pip before we started is that I, I kind of worked two and a half, three days a week now.

Sorry.

That's great.

I know.

Well done.

You, I, I do, you know, I go and watch my kids play sport at school every week.

I.

Do a lot of exercise.

Cause I do, I got myself addicted to this thing, endurance racing, which is basically swim, bite, run stuff.

So I'm training a lot.

So for example, the amount of people I piss off, you do a decathlon always.

It's like a triathlon stuff.

Yeah, triathlon.

So the amount of people I piss off, cuz they'll be like, right, we're gonna put the, uh, next year we're gonna put the board meeting at Wednesday in the morning, week two.

No.

Why not?

I go out with the guys on the bike every Wednesday.

That's not, I don't have any ball meetings on Wednesday.

Come on.

Just one week.

No, you have to make those rules, but you know what, and, and is it, I know this is gonna sound a bit, a bit contrived stroke, you know, you know, I g I gave up my life for about 10, 15 years mm-hmm.

When getting, you know, bearing vodka, cocoa off, off the table and never like that.

I'm, you know, Penny and I joke so Penny with my wife and joke cuz I occasionally I get the itch to start, do another one and Penny looks at me and goes, no, you cannot do another one, because I won't be around if you do because it literally six and a half days a week, 18 odd days.

And I know, bless them, some people have to work that every day.

But I've kind of done that and I'm just, again, it's a cliche, but that.

You know, we've all got friends, you know, we've also got friends unfortunately are no longer around, all that sort of stuff, and I just, you know, I'm just a massive believer in kind of, you know, the whole kind of live to work versus work to live, etc.

It's amazing that as, as certified workaholic about, That you've managed to flip to, I'm just gonna do these.

Yeah, but he's not doing anything light.

He's not having Chris with his mates, you know, chuffing weed on a Wednesday.

Don't say still he's doing on a bike, trying to ride to fucking, ah, you know, he's not like, ah, now we know what he wants to do.

Exactly what he wants to do.

Fat underpants.

No, I never, I never, I never stand still.

But it's just, I dunno, you just, just do stuff you enjoy.

Right?

That's the, I'm lucky I can do what I, what I want to enjoy what I do, but it, but also tells what drives me.

Because if it was about, Chasing the coin and trying to do deal after deal.

I'd be working six and a half days a week and just going after it and after it, and I'm not about that.

It's all, I just, I just do what I do and enjoying it, but I want the right lifestyle alongside it.

You had a bit of luck, you got impact a lot, I think.

I think innocent was the key moment it sounds like.

You know, that gave me the platform, right.

To do what I'm doing.

Yeah.

You've got the experience with Coke.

You'd got a couple of things on the cvs.

I mean, I was pretty good.

Choice as well.

I think that was great.

Hey, I mean, that, that was hard work and took us a long way to get that, get that going.

But that, that, that was great.

And you know Andrew, Andrew and Hailey as the founder and Hailey as, as, as you know, she was kind of the real brand person.

She did a phenomenal job with that is bear the, um, I'm a mother.

I was trying to buy sweets for my daughter and there were no healthy sweetss.

Is that the story of Bear?

I haven't looked it up.

Just it's so often is the bear actually.

But the bear story is really about ha Hailey is literally Yeah.

All about putting goodness in her body.

And she's always had a big issue with the fact that.

You know, you know, trying to get, you know, kids to eat healthily, importantly, eat fruit and VE was very difficult and actually provide it in a format that works well.

But importantly, you provide it in a format where it's not covered in soft dioxide or got concentrates or basic made like confectionary, and that's why bear with softly bake just a hundred percent pure fruit.

Must sound like I still work for them.

No, no.

A really good thing I learned from that is if you want a completion meeting to go, well have a newborn baby at the completion meeting because all the light investors.

You know, all the purchasers were just like, oh, hold the baby.

But, but I've had a meeting, it was in this room when it was before this place was refu of my dad and I, and they had a baby.

And then they said, do you mind if we breastfeed?

And me and my dad were like, yeah, sure.

And then we had to sit in there and we just sat there going, Then what happened to his first awkward situation in the world?

Ever.

Brilliant.

Yeah.

What's the most misunderstood thing about what you do?

I think the most misunderstood thing is people think everything's going really well and it's all rosy and it's nice and easy and whatever it isn't, it is still hard yards.

It's all pretty tough.

So the big, the biggest challenge for me, actually, what I do is actually, rather than the financial side or the business pressure, it's probably the, it's the people side.

That's probably the most stressful bit, and I probably spend.

Two, three hours a week.

Actually not speaking to founders of the business I'm involved with and speaking to other founders who basically are in a real dilemma.

I e the business is going south or else they've got investors who are being absolute.

Asshole to them.

Um, they'll, you know, they'll ring me up and flood of tears and stuff like that.

And that's probably the most stressful thing for me, which is, you know, cause I, I just a big believer that you, you, you know, there's a way to deal with people and look after people and, you know, even in tough

times and, you know, one of my businesses recently also had a, you know, had a challenging period and then some of the investors, you know, then had some clauses in a contract, which means that they could then convert.

Stuff that meant that the founder was left with very little And I had a real issue with that.

Yeah.

And I said, you shouldn't be exercising that clause and like tough, like is happening.

And I don't know, I just, it that's the bit that's, that's, well you, you are getting back to what I, it's not business.

This, there's ethics involved here.

Sometimes you should look at it.

I'd, I'd rather walk away financially than have to deal with shit like that.

It's, this is, this is probably the most difficult thing for me cuz I think it's also cuz.

Again, when I'm talking about certain founders who are about set of businesses, I also say to 'em, look, just make sure, particularly on sole founders, make sure you know what you're signing up to here.

Yeah.

Cause this is all encompassing.

This is all consuming, you know?

Well, when you're, when you are a sole founder.

Yeah, I think so.

I think there's a couple of people I think have been successful founders.

But there's some people who haven't been successful founders, but should have been.

But they went into it the wrong way.

They went in it alone and they should have gone in like so for example, we talked innocent earlier, Adam, Richard, and John.

Three very bright guys that worked amazingly well.

Very complimentary skill sets, right?

John Satche, ops Rich brand, handwaving, brilliant Adam, very commercial.

They worked to compliment each other brilliantly.

And also they shared the bullet burden across three shoulders.

Cause everybody thought innocent was all, literally, that was just like linear.

Growth solid to Coke.

Oh my God.

It wasn't, you know, when massive commodity prices were a fruit costs went up and prices went up and we had the whole Janet Street Porter with, you know, fruit and smoothie sugar that was in a shaky position.

That business then, do you not remember the bottling thing?

Yeah, well, exactly.

This is what I mean, and people don't, but you know.

If you've got other founders alongside you, it's easy to share that, I dunno how people do it on their own.

And I, as you say, I don't one thing, one person can have all the skills.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And some of my clients who, I could think of a few in my head that I say to them, you need to find your, your, your, all your other, your yin and yang.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like dating.

It's like, well, how do I find them?

But that, that's what Sandy, that's, that's what also I talk about.

You know, let's, you know, and lemme give you a great example of someone like, you know, PIP, it's a Pip Murray, who's Pippa Pippen Nut, which is probably one of the top five most talked about brands and food and drink Pippen Nut, which is the nut butter spread.

Pip's the most beautiful person in the world, right?

I, I can't talk hardly enough about her.

And she's done an incredible job.

Sh if anybody wants to be the benchmark for B Corp business people not is definitely, you know, that business.

Um, but we got a situation where, She was definitely just throwing ab everything into the business.

And the other thing I also say to, to the founders, I don't care how busy you are, a lot of investors want, want their, you know, want, want the founders to sweat and sweat.

I'm like, no, no.

It's about balance.

Hip used to do loads of marathon running.

That's one of the reasons she got into it and she stopped it all because the business is becoming all consuming.

I'm saying, right.

Stop.

You need to now carve out times in the week, go away, get back to doing your endeavor because you need escapism.

Because if you're escapism and that's why you laugh about, I can go out on the bike for four hours, right?

And I'll be out on the bike for four hours, drives people mad because I get back and I'll send about 20 emails.

Cause that's my thinking time, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it clears the air.

And I think that's the big thing, which is, um, you know, getting a balance and making sure that founders have got an escapism or got a.

You know, a pursuit outside of, outside of work, you know, take your frigging holidays cuz you know, it's like virtually all of my businesses, none of them have contracted hours or minimum work hours, or else a number of holidays.

If you wanna take 50 days holiday a year and do a great job, go for your life.

And that's, you know, for me, that's, that's what's important.

You know?

And just to finish on Pip, You know what I'm loving about Pip at the moment is Pip's just had her first baby.

Um, beautiful little girl and I'm so pleased cuz actually she's taking some time out and you know, she's working herself back in because you don't get that time back.

Right.

And, you know, it's, it's really important and I know she'll come back into the business fresher and, and deliver a lot more value.

And I think that's just the big thing for me, for anybody setting up a business and founders founder today, just make sure you need an escapism, you need to have some sort of hobby outside of it.

Cause otherwise it will just be all consuming.

On the more than one founder thing, you know, it can go horribly wrong, right?

Yeah.

We'll we'll see.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it doesn't matter whether it's two of you or three of you or whatever.

Like two of you, you fall out, it's complete disaster.

Cause the whole business is gonna go, three of you is normally two of you going up on the other one.

It's also miserable.

Like it happens.

Yeah, it is tough.

You're right.

Yeah.

But I do think that having a co-founder kind of rubs the crazy off.

You know, cuz you can end up going down a massive rabbit hole.

What do you do about climate change then with all of these businesses?

What are you asking them to do?

Uh, so I'm, I'm gonna flip around the other way, which is I think we are so far behind.

In terms of putting in the right measures to make sure that the planet is around for as long as it should be in the state that it needs to be.

I think we are so far behind.

It is frightening and, and whilst I do think the businesses have a responsibility to kind of be self.

Initiators of putting in more stringent measures.

I believe that policy has to come in and government policy has to come in with much more stringent targets, much earlier, and there were massive sanctions.

So they're not met, I hate to say it, but you and I both know that there's probably.

10 or 20 or maybe 30 com companies globally that will probably have 60% of the impact worldwide.

Yeah.

You've gotta go after those guys and you've gotta be really clear to them.

They're also the only ones who can afford it.

Yeah.

And it may mean PN l's horrible, but without being rude, these guys have got balance sheets that have just got, you know, telephone numbers sitting on them.

And yeah, PNLs and share prices might be hit for a while, but the, if these adjustments aren't made, ramifications are much bigger.

Yeah, I mean they brought in the plastic packaging tax, which I vaguely understand, and it's, you know, I think, I'm trying to remember if it's a hundred million tons a year or something, you know.

Well, that's the other thing as well, trying to get any, any sort of, you know, what is, how do you measure it?

Yeah.

Cot this sort of thing.

It's just madness and they, they're trying to, obviously trying to find a way to have a unified system that goes onto Nate labeling, particularly on food and drink labeling and light.

It'll be 10 years.

So we'll sort that out.

I just kind of, you kind of want to rewind the whole, everything's gotta be in a plastic package, you know?

Yeah.

It's gone now.

But I remember getting very depressed, and I'm sure I've complained about it on this podcast, going into MNS and finding an orange appeal.

It still, still in a plastic box still?

No.

Fuck you.

Because I was thinking like, what are they saying in the factories when they arrive for the first day and they're like, right when you unpeel this orange and put it in that box, and you're like, or you get the four apples in a tray with the plastic over the top.

Let be my best example now.

So, Um, bio and Me, which is a gut health brand that I'm involved with, which is John and mek and the founders of that.

So it's basically gut health, cereals and yogurts.

Everybody says to me, what an incredible brand, amazing pops on the shelf.

Why are you in such small boxes?

Because you, you know, you, you, you, you're impacting your shelf presence.

And I'm like, because open the box and actually it's the right size box.

The amount of product is in there.

Everybody else is doing what a marketeer does, which is let's have 40, 50% air, make it look bigger.

So consumer thinks they're getting more and stuff like that, but.

Everybody just keeps saying to me, you're mad.

Just put, you're stitching yourself up.

Said, I'm not mad.

Because you know, the bigger issue is why aren't all those other brands saying, right.

You know, if I was a supermarket today, I'd be going across every product and say, right, we look at your product and they'll all have arguments about our, of the way that our machines fill.

We need to have certain amount of gap and all that sort of stuff.

But I'd be saying, right, you've got 40% air by this time next year.

That product needs to be less than half, 10% air.

And you could take out 30, 40% of packaging usage straight away there, and it just drive you mad.

But that's the world we live in.

And now a quick word from our sponsor, business Without Bullshit is brought to you by Ari Clark, straight Talking Financial and legal advice since 1935.

You can find us@ariclark.com.

What are you most excited about for your portfolio?

Is there something coming up within the portfolio at the moment?

I definitely, I've just mentioned it.

Second Bio me is doing really well.

I've also got another cereal brand involvement called Surreal.

So if it's surreal, so this is this kind of, um, high protein, zero sugar, very low, very low carbs plate, like a keto type thing.

If you want to see the example of what I think is.

The best marketed product and the best marketing in the industry at the moment.

Just follow surreal on LinkedIn and Instagram.

Absolutely brilliant.

Their marketing is so refreshing, not taking themselves seriously, completely.

Taking the Mickey out of the, the big serial guys and stuff like that and just getting so much traction.

Did you transcend that in America?

I mean, we've got so much humor in this country.

Yeah, they do.

There's a few brands doing it.

Not, not as much.

Sorry.

Those products are doing very well.

So for example, in the, in the US there's a brand called Magic Spoon, which is similar to surreal, and that's doing well.

Their humans are, they're humans.

A bit different though.

They're doing it, they're not doing it.

So we, ours is typical tongue in cheek that British love.

I mean, the thing about those kind of key brands and things like that is they're so effing.

Earnest.

Yeah, yeah.

About stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It is that little bit cleek stroke, you know, or that CrossFit type thing.

Well, the earnest brings that thing.

It's like, why does, you know, what, what's the problem with, you know, the vegan community and stuff?

You make other people feel bad.

You know, you, it's very patronizing and that's what surreal, trying to break that down.

It's just trying to be accessible to everybody and you know, have a bit of fun with it.

Not take yourself too seriously.

But there's, I mean, there's other things that excite me.

Like what's really interesting is I've got a.

I've got a really nice, um, healthy soft drinks brand called Dawson's, which is pure, it says just sparkling water and then real fruits like that's been around for about six, seven years.

That's absolutely flying again now because two main reasons kind of healthy, right?

So health healthy fruit carbonates is actually the fastest growing section, the whole of soft drinks.

But also what's happening is, and this is why I I laugh to talk about a little about bullshit bus busters, is that everybody's talking about this kind of,

everybody moving away from alcohol and everybody's saying, well, it's because they're all trading into like, Non-alcoholic, it beers, non wines and stuff like that.

And things like seed lip and stuff like that, which by the way, totally get and they're all gonna fly.

But actually what's happening is, you know, a lot of people are actually switching into things like traditional soft drinks, again, because they'd rather, rather than have like a fake beer, they actually want something that tastes like a, you know, like one of the Dawsons.

So actually that's why Dawson's having a big recent, you know, big research.

No, I find if I, I'm trying to not drink at the moment, just for a, a week or two and, yeah.

Well, my, what is happening to you?

No swearing stomach problem.

No drinking.

I know, I know, I know, I know.

Well, you may have noticed.

I he just totally different person.

I just, uh, yeah, he's a quick fix, isn't he?

He'll find like, that's it.

I need that one.

That's got CocaCola was energized.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know my mind when I'm like, sometimes I'm in a thing and you've ordered the beer or the wine.

Your friend gets the Coca-Cola and I just stare at it and think, I just want a coke.

Uh, so Charles, what do you think your biggest fuck up in business is?

Biggest fuck up or mistake that I've made in order to see a number of businesses commonly make is building a battalion of people.

When it's not needed or else before the revenue comes through and then the revenue doesn't come through and they've got this massive overhead around their neck and they can't make any money, and then it becomes a real problem.

So that's I, to be honest with you, I did that via, I did that at Via Coco.

I put way too many people in too early.

We now have, you know, so not we, they now have a business today in, in, in Europe, which is a very successful business.

It's got half the people that I had in it when I was, when I was doing it, and it's three times more productive.

And just, just surround yourself.

Have less people, but have amazing people.

It's a very difficult equation, isn't it?

Because hiring people takes time, but you've basically always gotta run hot.

I mean, we get this in this, in our business, that you people are most efficient and actually happiest if they're busy, but you don't want them breaking down at their desks kind of stuff.

You wanna say, go home, you know, if you can't get it done, and it's sort of people, but it also comes down to it's a bit more difficult in your area because you are.

You know, you've got clients and you've got certain things you do.

But if you take my area, one of the, one of the, one of the biggest achilles heel of the business is that consuming consumer goods is that particularly in marketing, they'll do a load of marketing activity and then they'll try and do more.

And it's just layer upon, layer up and layer.

And where the leadership need team me to step up is to say, well, look, it's as much about what you stop doing as what you continue and start doing.

And there's just people just assume.

And that's what we did at Vita Coco.

We took out.

Probably 40% of meetings and 40% of marketing activity and people like, um, you know, the brand's gonna really suffer.

Didn't suffer.

It actually did better because people are focused on the stuff that actually worked and did well.

Time management, all of that.

But you, but you, but to be fair, that's where you've gotta have a leadership team who can look at it and help guide the rest of the team to try and make those difficult decisions and say it's okay not to do that sort of stuff anymore.

Yeah.

Plus if it hap, I'm sure it happens in your, you know, I'm so busy that I don't know how good my time management is.

I sometimes think not so cuz I get a bit ruled by my email box.

But the truth is, when you're at that level of busy, I have to do what is really important and it is.

Incredible how much I can do when I'm focused.

I'm not trying to big myself up, but how long I can say, but how?

But how do you work?

Cause I know, for example, I purposely don't do a lot of stuff because I know the only way for me to be accessible is to let a lot of people down every day because I focus on a few things that are important, important to the business or the founder or me.

That's all I need to worry about.

And I know there's be another 20 things that people would be like, really effed off the jars, hasn't done that.

Whatever.

But I know that that isn't, and then tricky with clients, I can only be successful.

I know it is.

And that's what I was gonna say with the client, you guys, it's difficult, but it's also that whole, if you want something done, ask a busy person.

Yeah.

And it is true that like when you've got loads of shit to do.

Yeah, yeah.

You just kind of have to get through it quick when you do stuff.

No, no, no.

I mean I've really, I've You sure lost a lot fast.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But you know, we were talking yesterday about.

Like being ruled by our inbox.

Like when an email comes in, the first thing I do is reply to it.

Even if it's just to say, I'll take a look tomorrow.

Yeah.

And then flag it.

That's our job.

That's my biggest bug bet.

Even if you're freaking busy to say, look, I'm really busy.

I'll come back to you, whatever.

Rather than I leave it, sat there for God knows how long, and somebody said, did you get this?

What's going on?

Well, I, we have to train everyone here, but I didn't know the answer.

But I do have clients who will, they'll send me an email and literally I'll, I'll look at it and think, just finish this off and reply to it and I'll get a text saying, I just sent you an email, just haven't come back to me.

You said the right thing.

The, it depends on the business.

I think if it with professionals it is incredibly important if you are paying us 300 pound an hour that we fucking respond.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And just exactly I have seen it.

I am aware of it.

Got it.

I'll come back.

I will come back to you.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, and then you don't care if it takes a week cuz you're like they're on it.

Uh, what's the worst advice you've ever been given?

Not necessarily what I'm gonna.

Twist us a little bit.

Not exactly advice, but it was, I remember I was at Koch and I was, I've always wanted to go to that entrepreneurial sort of business.

And I'll never forget, um, was he my boss?

He might, he was either my boss or he had been recently my boss.

And I told him, I said, look, I'm thinking about going to innocent like that.

And he just turned around to me, says, um, are you sure?

I said, why?

He says, yeah, because just be real clear.

You only get one chance to work for a bit like Coca-Cola.

You realize that.

And I just sat there and I went, I now know why this is the best decision I've ever made.

Yeah.

How arrogant And like actually the re the way that in my mind I was working was saying, look, I think I'm acceptable and good enough that the worst scenario here for me is of a jump ship.

I can get back into a corporate role of a similar level again.

So that's my fallback.

Yeah.

Pep, I'm going to Pepsi.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So, and that was a, you know, that was the, that was the thing that's always stuck with me, that somebody said that to me and I just thought, Wow.

What was Coke like to work for?

Is it a good place?

Great business, amazing, amazing people.

By the way, I had such a laugh there.

I think it's a bit, being a bit curtailed these days, obviously entertainment, budgets, all stuff like that.

I think it'd be dried up a bit, but just a great set of people.

Amazing people, massively passionate about it.

And I, you know, Some of the assets you got to work on.

You know, you can imagine every, every year you used to have like an Olympic cycle or the, you know, the World Cup football.

And of course my course a major sponsor and it was just something amazing.

5 billion servings a day madness.

Wow.

Of all their products.

Yeah, it's, it's a great business full of great people as well.

When I qualified at the firm I used to be at, after six months, I hated, I was in licensing and gaming and I hated it and I got another job.

And the managing partner, I got a job out of London and the managing partner said to me, You go out of London, you'll never come back to London.

That's it.

Yeah.

And you know, six years later, whatever they rehired me.

I was working in sl No, I was working in Redding.

Can I, I gotta say one quick story that that same person who was at Coke, bless him.

This is what I meant.

I was in a customer meeting and this customer literally was like, hung a real moment saying, right, I know that you are selling this product to this supermarket a lot more cheaply.

You're not giving me a good enough price.

And this was a lot smaller retailer.

This the same bloke came out with this answer to this, so still an important customer, no disrespect, but that customer probably spills more in a year than you sell, so you're not gonna get that price.

Oh

yeah.

I literally, I tried to go into the table.

I was like, I can't believe he's just, it worked though.

I bet.

It did well, it did well, I'll put it this way.

The only thing it worked on is that the meeting was over there and then, and actually, do you know what that that customer did?

They went and sourced Coca-Cola from outside of the UK and brought it in more cheaply that way just to piss, piss off the co uk.

Oh, did the Gray Market Cola?

Yeah.

Yeah, dad, because that's the thing with Coca-Cola, isn't it?

Yeah.

It's like you have this incredible brand that people go, well go get.

Um, something, you know, there's Pepsi, but no one ever asks for Pepsi.

You ever, ever, no one ever.

No one ever says, can I have a pep?

I've never met anyone in life.

Pepsi, well, India, Pepsi, you will.

If India, it's, you know, it's amazing when you around the world, some, you know, some markets like Cokes, not, not in all markets, India, it's Pepsi, everywhere.

What's the best piece of advice anyone's ever given you?

Uh, just follow and do whatever you're passionate about.

Nice.

Make sure you enjoy what you're doing every day.

And what advice would you give your younger self?

This is a really CRAs answer.

I generally, I wouldn't change anything because I.

The way it's worked out, it's been great.

But also, you know, there were a lot of mistakes and you learned from those mistakes and have done well.

The only thing I would probably say to myself would be take time to kind of enjoy the journey more because I was just running 20, you know, like million miles an hour the whole time.

Yeah.

And I probably didn't.

Step off the carriage way and just enjoy and take in some, some time.

And there's that piece of advice to give you if you have a wedding.

It was, I, I did do it at my second wedding.

Uh, but they, they, they say to you at the wedding, at some point you and your wife walk away from the wedding.

Yeah.

And just walk, just walk down the road somewhere.

You could still see it.

And just, and there was this, and actually there's a photo of it, but there was this real Yeah.

Weird moment.

We went to the end of the field and we just sort of sat there and looked.

Back at the thing, and it is a real moment.

Yeah.

Your brain still, otherwise it just goes, fuck me.

Actually, you know, it's like you're over and you're in the car, right.

You're off.

Yeah.

Not having sex, you know, it's just a disaster.

The honeymoon, you always, what's that?

Yeah, exactly.

You're so exhaust, you're so exhausted.

On the honeymoon night, you're like, aren't we supposed to, can we just go to bed?

You know?

It's like, yeah.

All right.

Any recommendations of what to listen to, watch, read?

Uh, do you know what?

I'm one of these people.

Cause people often ask what books you read.

I'm not a big reader.

I'm not a big listener.

The only thing I do is just surround yourself by.

People who can help and support you as a founder.

And when you're doing startup stuff, how do you find Right.

You know, I'm a founder.

I'm 25 years old, haven't you?

Build up a, you build up a network, right?

I dunno if you know, but I mentioned Jamie Mitchell earlier.

Jamie, um, created an amazing initiative called Altogether, which is a pro bono advice, uh, business.

And basically, um, I'm one of the advisors there and basically people can get in touch with it all together and, um, you get free time with, with different people in different sectors.

So for example, I'm like a food and drink.

Um, startup expert.

There's somebody who's in property, there's somebody you know who's in, you know, finance or whatever it is.

And that's, that's been a really good help for a lot of people in the last two, three years during covid.

That's been real, I've enjoyed doing as well.

And do you know what?

I've actually learned a lot from the people I've spoken to as well.

It's given me a few thoughts.

So that was this week's episode of Bwb Extra, and we'll be back tomorrow with our finale for the week, the Business Versus Bullshit Quiz.