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Inside Out: The Faith In Action
Episode 4414th November 2023 • CROWD Church Livestream • Crowd Church
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🌟 Ever felt life's journey could use a little more purpose? Ever wondered if there's a deeper connection between your heart, mind, and actions? Delve into "Inside Out: The Faith In Action" and unravel the captivating dance between inner beliefs and outer behaviours. 🌟

This transformative talk shines a refreshing light on how the Christian faith isn't just confined within chapel walls. Whether you're a steadfast believer, a curious seeker, or somewhere in between, this talk resonates with the soul's desire for a meaningful and authentic life.

🔍 In this enlightening session, you'll uncover:

  • The mysterious and harmonious interplay between the mind and heart in faith.
  • How the Holy Spirit acts as an empowering compass for every life decision.
  • Real-life application of faith in everyday scenarios - from workplace chats to late-night musings.
  • The undying bond between our actions and words, and their combined impact on our faith journey.
  • The raw, unfiltered challenges of living a righteous life in a world filled with contradictions.

Transcripts

Matt Edmundson:

Welcome to this week's Crowd Church service.

Matt Edmundson:

We are a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps

Matt Edmundson:

us live a more meaningful life.

Matt Edmundson:

We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith, and a place

Matt Edmundson:

where you can contribute and grow.

Matt Edmundson:

Our service will last about an hour, and in a few seconds we

Matt Edmundson:

will start with a time of worship, after which you will meet Jesus.

Matt Edmundson:

Our hosts for our service who will introduce today's talk.

Matt Edmundson:

After the talk, we head into Conversation Street, where we look at your stories

Matt Edmundson:

and questions that you've posted in the comments throughout the live stream.

Matt Edmundson:

I want to invite you to connect with us here at Crowd Church, and there are

Matt Edmundson:

a few ways that you can do just that.

Matt Edmundson:

Firstly, you can engage with Crowd from any device during our live

Matt Edmundson:

stream, and if you're up for it.

Matt Edmundson:

Why not invite a few friends over and experience the service together?

Matt Edmundson:

You see, church is all about connecting with God and connecting with others.

Matt Edmundson:

And one of the easiest ways for you to do that is to also join one of our

Matt Edmundson:

mid week groups, where we meet up.

Matt Edmundson:

Online together to catch up and discover more about the amazingness of Christ.

Matt Edmundson:

You can also subscribe to our podcast called What's the Story, where we

Matt Edmundson:

deep dive into stories of faith and courage from everyday people.

Matt Edmundson:

More information about all of these things that I've mentioned can

Matt Edmundson:

be found on our website at www.

Matt Edmundson:

crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

church.

Matt Edmundson:

www.

Matt Edmundson:

crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

church or you can reach us on social media at crowdchurch if you're new

Matt Edmundson:

to crowd or new to the christian faith and would like to know what

Matt Edmundson:

your next steps to take are well why not head over to our website crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

church forward slash next for more details

Matt Edmundson:

and now the moment you've been waiting for is here our online church service

Matt Edmundson:

starts right now Now, well, hello and welcome to Crowd Online Church.

Matt Edmundson:

Great to see you.

Matt Edmundson:

Great that you're here with us.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, for those of you don't know me, my name is Matt Edmundson.

Matt Edmundson:

I get to be part of the team here and beside me, probably more importantly,

Matt Edmundson:

uh, is Jan, Jan Birch and Jan, your first time hosting Crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

Welcome.

Matt Edmundson:

Thank you.

Matt Edmundson:

You're in the driving.

Matt Edmundson:

Well, I'm in the driving seat.

Matt Edmundson:

You're in the passenger seat.

Matt Edmundson:

How does it feel?

Jan Burch:

Yeah, scary.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, well, when you've got people like Matt Crew in

Matt Edmundson:

the comments, there's plenty to be scared about, isn't there, really?

Matt Edmundson:

So, uh, very warm welcome to you.

Matt Edmundson:

Do say hi to Jan, uh, if you're in the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, if you're watching us live, do come say hi in the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

It'd be great to hear from you.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

And it's also Remembrance Sunday.

Matt Edmundson:

We were just saying that, weren't we?

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, yes.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, I've not had, uh, I'm a little bit rushed tonight, uh,

Matt Edmundson:

getting the live stream ready.

Matt Edmundson:

For reasons which I won't bore you with, but, uh, we're a little

Matt Edmundson:

bit rushed and so I've not had a chance to get everything sorted out.

Matt Edmundson:

One of which is...

Matt Edmundson:

The minute silence that we normally do on crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

So I will try and resolve that whilst the talk is going on.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, but yes, Remembrance Sunday.

Matt Edmundson:

We're going to talk about that probably after the talk a little bit more.

Matt Edmundson:

So just to acknowledge that it is Remembrance Sunday, pop your Sunday today.

Matt Edmundson:

For those of you outside of the UK, uh, Remembrance Sunday is

Matt Edmundson:

like, um, uh, Memorial Sunday, what do they call it in the States?

Matt Edmundson:

Memorial Day?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

I think it's Memorial Day, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, we call it Remembrance Sunday.

Matt Edmundson:

It's where we remember the.

Matt Edmundson:

The ones that have gone before us and, you know, uh, sort of fought in wars

Matt Edmundson:

and all that kind of stuff so that we can enjoy the freedoms that we have.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, so yeah, Remembrance Sunday, we've got Nicola in the comments, evening

Matt Edmundson:

Nicola or evening Lala, as we like to say.

Matt Edmundson:

Hi Nicola.

Matt Edmundson:

I've got Matt Crew in the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

Hi Matt.

Matt Edmundson:

Matt's saying here, look, I can add this to the broadcast saying, uh,

Matt Edmundson:

welcome to the Crowd Church family, Jen.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, thank you.

Matt Edmundson:

Thank you very much.

Matt Edmundson:

And Denny's actually, he's, he's, he's trying to, he's,

Matt Edmundson:

look, he's put Jan Birch, legend.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, don't know how he knows that.

Jan Burch:

Is it not true?

Jan Burch:

Don't think so,

Matt Edmundson:

no.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm sure it is.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm sure it is, Jen.

Matt Edmundson:

But yes, do say hi in the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

So tonight, I've not prepped you for this actually, but

Matt Edmundson:

you do know what's coming up.

Matt Edmundson:

I do.

Matt Edmundson:

What's coming up?

Matt Edmundson:

It's Chris Holcombe.

Matt Edmundson:

The Right Reverend, Chris Holcombe, say Right Reverend,

Matt Edmundson:

he's not a Right Reverend at all.

Matt Edmundson:

Doctor Chris, in fact he's gone beyond Doctor now, isn't he?

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, is he a professor?

Matt Edmundson:

I've no idea, but you don't call him Doctor Holcombe, you call him Mr Holcombe.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

So in the UK, if you're watching outside of the UK, the way this works

Matt Edmundson:

is when you're a doctor, you're a doctor, you can call yourself a doctor.

Matt Edmundson:

But then you, and you know this because you're in the medical field, after

Matt Edmundson:

a while you stop being a doctor and you become a mister again, don't you?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah,

Jan Burch:

the more senior you are, yeah.

Jan Burch:

Which

Matt Edmundson:

is bizarre.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

It's mainly to do with surgeon, surgery.

Jan Burch:

Okay.

Jan Burch:

Um, medical doctors tend to be doctor, but, um, surgeons are Mr.

Jan Burch:

or Miss.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

So you, you work really hard and go back to your original title of

Jan Burch:

Mr.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

All that hard work.

Matt Edmundson:

It's generally how it works.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, so yeah, Jenny's in the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

Hey Jenny, how you doing?

Matt Edmundson:

Good to see you.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, always nice to see you.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

So, uh, we've got Mr.

Matt Edmundson:

Chris Holcombe because he has, he's gone through the doctor bit and he's like, he's

Matt Edmundson:

a very good, he's a very good surgeon.

Matt Edmundson:

He is, I believe

Jan Burch:

he

Matt Edmundson:

is.

Matt Edmundson:

Yep.

Matt Edmundson:

Yep.

Matt Edmundson:

So, we've got Chris Holcombe tonight to carry us on in our, in our journey.

Matt Edmundson:

I was going to say story.

Matt Edmundson:

It's not a story.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, in our journey through the book of Acts, uh, he is taking us forward.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, Evening, Matt, still feeling good about your new decade.

Matt Edmundson:

Now, I'm assuming, Jenny, I'm going to put this on the broadcast because I can.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm assuming you're talking to Matt Crew.

Matt Edmundson:

Because Matt Crew, who is always in the comments every week, turned 40.

Matt Edmundson:

I want you to know he is now officially ancient.

Matt Edmundson:

The man who is constantly ragging me and teasing me about my

Matt Edmundson:

age is now officially ancient.

Matt Edmundson:

He's now into his 40s.

Jan Burch:

Life

Matt Edmundson:

begins then.

Matt Edmundson:

Apparently so, apparently so.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, but yes, uh, I won't put back in the comments yet.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, but yes, happy birthday to Matt Crew, uh, from all of us

Matt Edmundson:

here at Crowd Church, obviously.

Matt Edmundson:

Now, without further ado, let's get into, uh, Chris Holcombe.

Matt Edmundson:

So we're going to have a talk.

Matt Edmundson:

Chris is going to, uh, talk to us from the Book of Acts.

Matt Edmundson:

We've been working our way through the Book of Acts.

Matt Edmundson:

We are very near the end now.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, we're going to end the end of Jan, Jan.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, okay, Matt.

Matt Edmundson:

So at the end of Jan, we've got, so we're almost there.

Matt Edmundson:

So Chris is going to take us on the next chapter.

Matt Edmundson:

Jan and I will then be back for Conversation Street after

Matt Edmundson:

Chris has done his talk.

Matt Edmundson:

So don't go anywhere.

Matt Edmundson:

Do join us in the comments, write any questions that you have.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, any stories, anything you want to share, put it in the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

We'd love to see it.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, Jan and I will see you in there, but for now, here's Chris.

Chris Holcombe:

Hello, it's a pleasure to have the opportunity to speak briefly on.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, sorry about that.

Matt Edmundson:

We're going to try Chris again, see how we get on.

Chris Holcombe:

Hello, it's a pleasure to have the opportunity to speak briefly on.

Chris Holcombe:

Acts chapter 19, a chapter full of action in the, in the early church

Chris Holcombe:

and Paul's missionary journeys.

Chris Holcombe:

Let's start reading from the message of the first couple of verses.

Chris Holcombe:

Paul made his way down through the mountains, came to Ephesus and

Chris Holcombe:

happened on some disciples there.

Chris Holcombe:

First thing he said was, did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?

Chris Holcombe:

Did you take God into your mind only?

Chris Holcombe:

Or did you also embrace him with your heart?

Chris Holcombe:

Did he get inside you?

Chris Holcombe:

And, it's absolutely key this, the whole business of mind and heart.

Chris Holcombe:

So, faith, Christianity, is not just about head knowledge.

Chris Holcombe:

It's not something that's theoretical, that's nice, that's interesting.

Chris Holcombe:

It's not just...

Chris Holcombe:

A nice philosophy, but rather this is something about your heart, it gets inside

Chris Holcombe:

you, this is something that's going to make a difference, something that I'm

Chris Holcombe:

going to pursue, something that will change what I do, change my behaviour.

Chris Holcombe:

We go on and read in verse 4, that explains it said Paul.

Chris Holcombe:

Preached a baptism of radical life change, so that people would be

Chris Holcombe:

ready to receive the one coming after him, who turned out to be Jesus.

Chris Holcombe:

If you've been baptised in John's baptism, you're ready now for the real thing.

Chris Holcombe:

You're ready for Jesus.

Chris Holcombe:

And, it's that readiness now of, actually, your head says yes.

Chris Holcombe:

Now it's your heart.

Chris Holcombe:

Now, now you're ready for Jesus to take all of you and take your heart.

Chris Holcombe:

But it's even more than that because what comes with that is the Holy Spirit.

Chris Holcombe:

When Jesus was still on earth, Jesus promised to leave us with the Holy Spirit

Chris Holcombe:

and in John 14 Uh, verse 25 in the Gospel of John, we read the Friend, the Holy

Chris Holcombe:

Spirit, whom the Father will send at my request, I'm going to leave him with you.

Chris Holcombe:

And it's that same Holy Spirit that changed a bunch of scared disciples that

Chris Holcombe:

we read about at the beginning of Acts, a bunch of scared disciples in the upper

Chris Holcombe:

room, into a bunch of people who changed.

Chris Holcombe:

The world as we know it.

Chris Holcombe:

So a Holy Spirit that gives boldness, but a Holy Spirit who gives gifts,

Chris Holcombe:

and again reading from the message, a Holy Spirit who gives wise

Chris Holcombe:

counsel, clear understanding, simple trust, healing the sick, miraculous

Chris Holcombe:

acts, proclamation, distinguishing spirits, speaking in tongues.

Chris Holcombe:

Gives us those gifts, gives us fruit, as we read in Galatians where it

Chris Holcombe:

says again from the message, the Holy Spirit gives us affection for others,

Chris Holcombe:

exuberance for life, willingness to stick with things, a sense of compassion

Chris Holcombe:

in the heart, a loyal commitment.

Chris Holcombe:

And if we know God, if we've been baptised in the Holy Spirit, if

Chris Holcombe:

we've taken the Holy Spirit into our.

Chris Holcombe:

It's that same Holy Spirit who we take with us into work when we go

Chris Holcombe:

along there on a Monday morning.

Chris Holcombe:

It's the same Holy Spirit who we take down the pub with us when we go for a drink

Chris Holcombe:

with our friends, to the football, to that family gathering, because we are filled

Chris Holcombe:

with the Spirit whether we like it or not.

Chris Holcombe:

This is the Spirit.

Chris Holcombe:

Given when Paul laid hands on the disciples in Ephesus.

Chris Holcombe:

And Christianity isn't just about head knowledge.

Chris Holcombe:

It's not just a nice philosophy, but about the whole, our whole lives, our heart, our

Chris Holcombe:

mind, our soul, driven by the Holy Spirit.

Chris Holcombe:

And that what, that's what makes a difference.

Chris Holcombe:

To who we are, what we do and, and it's that difference that makes people curious.

Chris Holcombe:

So going down the chapter a little bit to verse 18 we read, curiosity,

Chris Holcombe:

curiosity about Paul developed into reverence for the Master.

Chris Holcombe:

And I find this a challenge.

Chris Holcombe:

How do we make that link, or how do we show to others that link between who I

Chris Holcombe:

am, what I do and why I do it, to Jesus?

Chris Holcombe:

So people might like me, they might think what I do is good,

Chris Holcombe:

they might be curious about me, but how does that point to Jesus?

Chris Holcombe:

How does that lead to reverence?

Chris Holcombe:

For the Master Jesus.

Chris Holcombe:

I think in many ways this is a two parter.

Chris Holcombe:

First is who we are, how we behave.

Chris Holcombe:

We will all be familiar with the phrase, actions speak louder than words.

Chris Holcombe:

And so it is.

Chris Holcombe:

And this is the very foundation of Being able to say anything

Chris Holcombe:

because people are watching.

Chris Holcombe:

Friends, colleagues, they're all watching.

Chris Holcombe:

They're watching what we do, how we behave, the people

Chris Holcombe:

at work, our neighbours.

Chris Holcombe:

Are you honest?

Chris Holcombe:

Do you gossip?

Chris Holcombe:

Do you do what you say you will?

Chris Holcombe:

Do you care, really care?

Chris Holcombe:

Do you demonstrate grace and, and what we read here in Acts 19 is that Paul's

Chris Holcombe:

actions lay the foundation of his words.

Chris Holcombe:

So, so we see him, uh, in the meeting place arguing and convincing, but

Chris Holcombe:

that's backed up by his actions.

Chris Holcombe:

We read in verse 11, God did powerful things through Paul,

Chris Holcombe:

quite out of the ordinary.

Chris Holcombe:

And he was healing the sick, and things that had been in

Chris Holcombe:

his possession healed the sick.

Chris Holcombe:

And we too can pray for those who are sick around us, pray for those in

Chris Holcombe:

need, and see God move supernaturally.

Chris Holcombe:

But actually it's not only that.

Chris Holcombe:

Because what we might consider more mundane things are also

Chris Holcombe:

quite out of the ordinary.

Chris Holcombe:

And actually that's really important as we live out our faith, our everyday

Chris Holcombe:

life, our whole life faith, at work, in the neighbourhood, with our friends.

Chris Holcombe:

So actually showing grace to our colleagues when they

Chris Holcombe:

fail is out of the ordinary.

Chris Holcombe:

Forgiving relatives when they mess up.

Chris Holcombe:

Demonstrating agape love, that love that we show without any expectation of

Chris Holcombe:

return from those to whom we are loving.

Chris Holcombe:

And at one level these things are very ordinary and yet at another level

Chris Holcombe:

these are quite out of the ordinary, uncommon, almost unheard of in the

Chris Holcombe:

secular world in which we live.

Chris Holcombe:

And it is as we demonstrate being a Christian by our actions So we come to

Chris Holcombe:

the second part, so we can, we can speak, we can share the good news of the gospel.

Chris Holcombe:

Our actions, our behaviour opens the way to discussion of our faith, to sharing

Chris Holcombe:

its joy, to sharing its hardships, its uncertainties, its pain on occasion.

Chris Holcombe:

But without that foundation of behaviour.

Chris Holcombe:

We simply will not be heard.

Chris Holcombe:

And again, that's capsulated in the New Testament in 1 John chapter 3,

Chris Holcombe:

in verse 18, we read, Dear children, let us not love with words or speech,

Chris Holcombe:

but with actions and its truth.

Chris Holcombe:

And it's as those two work together, hand in glove, that it's effective, that

Chris Holcombe:

there's power, that there's reality.

Chris Holcombe:

So, let's pause for a moment.

Chris Holcombe:

Um, we've heard the good news of the gospel, we understand it in our

Chris Holcombe:

mind, but it goes further than that.

Chris Holcombe:

We're then filled with the Holy Spirit, our heart is changed, and when

Chris Holcombe:

our heart is changed, our behaviour is changed, how we treat people is

Chris Holcombe:

different, which gives us the opportunity to speak, to share the good news.

Chris Holcombe:

And at least potentially to be heard.

Chris Holcombe:

It's easy to portray the gospel as all good news, somehow warm

Chris Holcombe:

and fluffy like a big, big hug.

Chris Holcombe:

And there's elements undoubtedly of that.

Chris Holcombe:

But, but it's also, but it's, it's all, it's not always that.

Chris Holcombe:

For everyone, and for those, not always that, for those

Chris Holcombe:

who hold power and influence.

Chris Holcombe:

Changing how things are done might be great for the poor, for the less well

Chris Holcombe:

paid, but that has the consequences, reduces the profits for those at the top.

Chris Holcombe:

Being honest, exposing untruth, will not be welcomed by many.

Chris Holcombe:

will not be welcomed by those who lose power, who lose

Chris Holcombe:

influence, those who lose money.

Chris Holcombe:

They're not going to be happy.

Chris Holcombe:

And they're not going to go quietly.

Chris Holcombe:

And so it is in Ephesus, where we read about a riot erupting.

Chris Holcombe:

Demetrius is the local silversmith, he's got a good...

Chris Holcombe:

So, business going on with the idols he's creating, and he sees Paul having

Chris Holcombe:

this influence, but very quickly sees his business disappearing,

Chris Holcombe:

sees his profits disappearing.

Chris Holcombe:

So, so stirs everyone up.

Chris Holcombe:

Um, we have to stop this.

Chris Holcombe:

Everyone knows Artemis is our God, but you know, we...

Chris Holcombe:

We have to stop it, but of course it's not about Artemis, it's about his prophets,

Chris Holcombe:

and that's, that's very often the case.

Chris Holcombe:

And, interesting reading this, uh, again, uh, looking at

Chris Holcombe:

this account of the, the riot.

Chris Holcombe:

I was struck how much the account in Acts sounds like a modern day Twitter storm.

Chris Holcombe:

Everyone getting involved, everyone wading in.

Chris Holcombe:

In verse 32, again in the message read, some were yelling one thing, some another.

Chris Holcombe:

Most of them had no idea what was going on or why they were there.

Chris Holcombe:

That, it sounds very much like that social media echo chamber in full swing.

Chris Holcombe:

And those who are losing out, are going to kick that off, they're not

Chris Holcombe:

going to go easily, and that can be difficult, that costs, but doing the

Chris Holcombe:

right thing, is the right thing, and it's what God asks us to do, it's

Chris Holcombe:

what God expects us to do, and there will be many, many around you at work.

Chris Holcombe:

In your neighborhood who will be very grateful for that.

Chris Holcombe:

But again, there are those who will not be grateful and who

Chris Holcombe:

will kick up a storm in response.

Chris Holcombe:

So in conclusion, we see faith.

Chris Holcombe:

We see Christianity.

Chris Holcombe:

It's not just this or that.

Chris Holcombe:

It's about this and that.

Chris Holcombe:

It's not just about your mind or your heart, it's about your mind.

Chris Holcombe:

And your heart, working together.

Chris Holcombe:

It's not just actions or words, but it's both.

Chris Holcombe:

It's action and words, one built upon the other.

Chris Holcombe:

It's not just about being nice and forgiving everyone, or

Chris Holcombe:

calling out injustice, but both.

Chris Holcombe:

It's about love and forgiveness and calling out injustice,

Chris Holcombe:

all of that powered by God's Holy Spirit.

Chris Holcombe:

Thank

Matt Edmundson:

you.

Matt Edmundson:

So, welcome back.

Matt Edmundson:

Big thanks to Chris Holcombe for doing that talk.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, it's, um, it's, doing these talks always requires a bit of effort and a

Matt Edmundson:

bit of time and a bit of forethought.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, and so super grateful that Chris took the time to do that.

Matt Edmundson:

You, you took lots of notes.

Matt Edmundson:

I did.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, lots and lots of notes.

Matt Edmundson:

Now, what we're gonna do, before we get into Conversation Street,

Matt Edmundson:

hopefully, uh, let me just do this.

Matt Edmundson:

I am going to just queue up the video, he says.

Matt Edmundson:

Hopefully this is going to work.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm going to queue up the video for Remembrance Sunday,

Matt Edmundson:

which is in here somewhere.

Matt Edmundson:

So whilst I'm doing that, you just talk about one of the things

Matt Edmundson:

that you enjoyed from the video.

Jan Burch:

Okay.

Jan Burch:

Um, I found, I found it very challenging.

Matt Edmundson:

Chris is always challenging.

Jan Burch:

It's like he is.

Jan Burch:

You know, very calm manner, but packs a punch, you know, in the, so

Jan Burch:

I found, I found it challenging from the very beginning about, is God,

Jan Burch:

have you taken God into your mind only or is he in your heart also?

Jan Burch:

It's like.

Jan Burch:

Okay, yeah, you're like,

Matt Edmundson:

thanks.

Jan Burch:

Thanks, Chris.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, it's just

Matt Edmundson:

challenging.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, yeah, we'll get into that.

Matt Edmundson:

So what I want to do now, let me go back to this scene here and back to live mode.

Matt Edmundson:

So hopefully those changes, you didn't see me playing around with the system.

Matt Edmundson:

Hopefully that was all fine day.

Matt Edmundson:

So what we're going to do, because it is Remembrance Sunday, So what we're Uh, we

Matt Edmundson:

are just going to take a few moments to remember those that have gone before us,

Matt Edmundson:

and to do that, we're going to play the video, uh, called The Last Post, which

Matt Edmundson:

is the theme, I only explained it on the video, so we're going to play that, we're

Matt Edmundson:

going to have a minute's silence, um, then we're going to have the rails, then Jan

Matt Edmundson:

and I will be back after this, Uh, it is Remembrance Sunday here in the UK, a few

Matt Edmundson:

seconds, a few minutes to remember those who have given the, well given a lot,

Matt Edmundson:

uh, whether it's their life, uh, whether, uh, it's just been a little part of their

Matt Edmundson:

soul, you know, uh, and they've come back very different people in modern times, um,

Matt Edmundson:

but a lot of people are doing, fighting a lot of conflicts around the world for our

Matt Edmundson:

freedom and so, uh, it's time to remember those, especially with all the wars that

Matt Edmundson:

are going on in, um, Israel, Gaza, we've got Russia, Ukraine, we've got, um, Sudan.

Matt Edmundson:

I mean, there's crazy stuff, uh, going off around the world.

Matt Edmundson:

So let's spend some time remembering those that have gone.

Matt Edmundson:

Let's spend some time remembering those who have, who are in conflict

Matt Edmundson:

at the moment and pray for peace.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, and then John and I will be back after this.

Matt Edmundson:

Hopefully this works fine.

Matt Edmundson:

Everyone's president is me.

Matt Edmundson:

Okay, welcome back.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, hopefully that works, uh, from a technical point of view.

Matt Edmundson:

Sorry again for not checking that.

Matt Edmundson:

Now I just want to read this.

Matt Edmundson:

On this Remembrance Sunday, we stand in a solemn congregation, bridging the past

Matt Edmundson:

and present in our collective memory.

Matt Edmundson:

We remember not only the brave souls of a bygone era, but also our

Matt Edmundson:

contemporary heroes who have faced the harrowing crucibles of conflict.

Matt Edmundson:

Many did not return, leaving a part of themselves on distant battlefields.

Matt Edmundson:

Others came back forever changed, carrying invisible yet indelible marks of war.

Matt Edmundson:

Today we honour their courage, their resilience and their immense sacrifices.

Matt Edmundson:

We remember those who stood valiantly in the face of adversity, fighting for

Matt Edmundson:

the freedoms we so clearly cherish.

Matt Edmundson:

And we acknowledge the profound cost of such bravery, not just in lives lost, but

Matt Edmundson:

in futures altered and in dreams deferred.

Matt Edmundson:

We will remember them, not just as a phrase, but as a solemn

Matt Edmundson:

pledge to recognize all who have given so much for so many.

Matt Edmundson:

On this day, our gratitude is deep and our remembrance resolute, spanning

Matt Edmundson:

across all generations of heroes.

Matt Edmundson:

And so it is, I, I am, a fan is the wrong phrase, Jen.

Matt Edmundson:

I do like to take a bit of time on remembrance and date,

Matt Edmundson:

um, just to remember those.

Matt Edmundson:

And so, shall we pray and then we'll get into Conversation Street.

Matt Edmundson:

Do me to pray?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, you pray.

Matt Edmundson:

It's your first Sunday after all, don't want to throw you in the deep end.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, Father, thank you for those who have given so much, whether it was

Matt Edmundson:

their life, whether it was just they've left part of them on the battlefield.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, and Father, thank you for those that have fought for our freedoms.

Matt Edmundson:

You know, many wars are unjust and some of them are just, and People are always hurt.

Matt Edmundson:

People are always scarred on both sides of the fence.

Matt Edmundson:

And Lord, we pray for peace at this time.

Matt Edmundson:

We remember the conflicts that are going on around the world.

Matt Edmundson:

And as we remember some of the wars from the past, we also remember the

Matt Edmundson:

wars that are going on at the moment.

Matt Edmundson:

And Lord, we pray for your intervention.

Matt Edmundson:

We pray you would intervene.

Matt Edmundson:

We pray for wisdom, for leaders.

Matt Edmundson:

We pray for bravery for those who are involved.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, encouraged to do what is right and just.

Matt Edmundson:

Amen.

Matt Edmundson:

Amen.

Matt Edmundson:

Very good.

Matt Edmundson:

And on that note, we will get into Conversation Street.

Matt Edmundson:

So.

Matt Edmundson:

Are you singing Coronation Street?

Matt Edmundson:

I was

Jan Burch:

because it's very similar.

Matt Edmundson:

Yes, it is very similar.

Matt Edmundson:

And for those of you don't know what Coronation Street is, you might

Matt Edmundson:

as well, you might have to explain

Jan Burch:

that.

Jan Burch:

Coronation Street is a soap opera, um, a show in the UK,

Jan Burch:

which has been going for Years.

Jan Burch:

All of my life.

Jan Burch:

At least 21 years.

Jan Burch:

I

Matt Edmundson:

think Noah was in the Coronation Street.

Matt Edmundson:

Some of the early, some of the early episodes.

Matt Edmundson:

Enid Sharples.

Matt Edmundson:

Well, so yes, uh, Coronation Street.

Matt Edmundson:

I don't recommend you watch it.

Matt Edmundson:

Nah,

Jan Burch:

it's a bit depressing.

Matt Edmundson:

It's a little bit like most soap operas to be fair.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, fair enough.

Matt Edmundson:

That was a bit random, Singing Coronation Street.

Matt Edmundson:

I've not had that before, but that's awesome.

Matt Edmundson:

Okay.

Matt Edmundson:

So, we definitely need a theme tune for Conversation Street.

Matt Edmundson:

It's got to be that.

Matt Edmundson:

I'll get Josh to write one.

Matt Edmundson:

We used to have one, um, what was that theme tune we used for Catch It?

Matt Edmundson:

Maybe we could use that.

Matt Edmundson:

I'll find it.

Matt Edmundson:

We'll find that out.

Matt Edmundson:

I'll get Josh to sort it out.

Matt Edmundson:

So yes, Conversation Street.

Matt Edmundson:

So, what did you think to Chris's talk?

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, you started off by saying that you thought it was very challenging.

Matt Edmundson:

It was

Jan Burch:

very challenging and I thought you did, you know, it was excellent.

Jan Burch:

Um, yeah, just the whole thing to start with, you know, that we have to.

Jan Burch:

It's not just a one off thing when you first become a Christian, um, but our

Jan Burch:

minds sometimes can take over our hearts, you know, that our heart can disengage.

Jan Burch:

Um, I will, I know that for me, um, some, some things are head

Jan Burch:

knowledge and, you know, you have to push through for the heart.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

It's interesting, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

The longest distance is from here to here, so I can't remember who said it,

Matt Edmundson:

but somebody said the longest distance is from your head to your heart.

Matt Edmundson:

And actually getting something in here, versus just here,

Matt Edmundson:

is really hard to do, right?

Matt Edmundson:

Um, but it's where the challenge, it's where the life changes, right?

Matt Edmundson:

This is, this is where God dwells.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, God also dwells in our minds, he helps us, you know, we have We have the mind

Matt Edmundson:

of Christ, we have the wisdom of Christ, it's not like we take God out of our

Matt Edmundson:

thinking, but there is something about a heart change in Christianity, isn't there?

Matt Edmundson:

Absolutely, yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

That is, that is quite extraordinary, and that's where the Holy Spirit,

Matt Edmundson:

it seems, uh, operates most effectively is in our hearts.

Matt Edmundson:

What heart changes have you experienced?

Jan Burch:

Yeah, a lot, lots over the years, I would say.

Jan Burch:

Um, I think...

Jan Burch:

I think when I first got married, um, I was, I was challenged, uh, quite a lot.

Jan Burch:

I think I had prejudices that I wasn't aware of, um, and was frightened of maybe

Jan Burch:

certain, certain people groups or not, not traveling or anything, but there was some

Jan Burch:

things or looking into other religions, you know, I was, I was quite sceptical.

Jan Burch:

I was very...

Jan Burch:

Um, but I'm not, I'm not advocating it, but I'm just saying, it's

Jan Burch:

okay, we're safe, it's okay to, to ask questions and, you know,

Matt Edmundson:

so that's an interesting one, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

Because I think a lot of people struggle with that aspect of

Matt Edmundson:

the ability to question and the ability to search as a Christian.

Matt Edmundson:

It's like, well, surely I should know what it is.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, and people really struggle to.

Matt Edmundson:

To have that sort of freedom, uh, you know, almost like God's going to get them.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

Do you know what I mean?

Matt Edmundson:

And it's, uh, it's not healthy at all, is it?

Matt Edmundson:

No.

Matt Edmundson:

And

Jan Burch:

if God doesn't, if someone in church will, you know, it's,

Jan Burch:

it's legalistic, it's fear based.

Jan Burch:

And I think God is, you know, it's God who gives us our minds, our

Jan Burch:

spirits, our personalities, and he knows, he's, and he's secure.

Jan Burch:

With us asking questions.

Jan Burch:

You know, he'd rather that than us do things without fully understanding

Jan Burch:

or embracing it, you know, properly.

Jan Burch:

Yeah,

Matt Edmundson:

yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

It's in, you read through the book of Psalms and there's David just asking

Matt Edmundson:

thousands and thousands of questions.

Matt Edmundson:

Mm-Hmm, God seems okay with that.

Matt Edmundson:

You know, uh, church sometimes isn't, um.

Matt Edmundson:

But God on the whole is, uh, and I think asking those questions

Matt Edmundson:

is, um, is totally fine.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, what's Matt put here, please don't sing, we can't afford the royalties.

Matt Edmundson:

Okay.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, head knowledge of God is quite easy, but, uh, having God

Matt Edmundson:

in your, uh, I'm guessing that's heart, uh, is coming up there.

Matt Edmundson:

So yeah, let's put that on the broadcast.

Matt Edmundson:

Had knowledge of God is quite easy, but I, uh, I find, but having God

Matt Edmundson:

in your heart, I'm imagining is what Nicola is going to say there, um,

Matt Edmundson:

is not always as straightforward.

Matt Edmundson:

Have you found that?

Jan Burch:

I have found that, um, I think, I think we, you know,

Jan Burch:

we're very, um, professional about being Christians sometimes.

Jan Burch:

I love that, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jan Burch:

That we can go through the motions, can't we, without really...

Jan Burch:

You know, it's just a decision.

Jan Burch:

It's just something we have to do.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

Um, but we can remain untouched by by things.

Jan Burch:

And yeah, so I don't think that's, that's how it should be.

Jan Burch:

I'm not saying that we should be emotional.

Jan Burch:

You know, wrecks every day or

Matt Edmundson:

that's good.

Matt Edmundson:

Because I don't think I

Jan Burch:

could do that.

Jan Burch:

But yeah, that's it.

Jan Burch:

I think it takes, you know, we're, we're one person, but

Jan Burch:

we're made up of different parts.

Jan Burch:

And it's, it's opening the door to all of that, isn't it?

Jan Burch:

Yeah,

Matt Edmundson:

it is.

Matt Edmundson:

I love that so many people are professional Christians.

Jan Burch:

It is,

Matt Edmundson:

isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Have you seen that a lot?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

So how do you, if head knowledge is easy, which is something Chris was

Matt Edmundson:

talking about, Um, but heart knowledge, uh, having God in your heart is because

Matt Edmundson:

it's, it's, it, like you say, it's easy to go, yeah, well, you know, I can

Matt Edmundson:

mentally ascend to God doing dot dot dot.

Matt Edmundson:

But when there's a heart change required, that's where we wrestle.

Matt Edmundson:

So how, how do you get it from here to here?

Matt Edmundson:

Have you done that?

Jan Burch:

I think, I think it's got to be, um, trusting God

Jan Burch:

and, um, you know, spending time with him when you know someone.

Jan Burch:

You're more likely to trust them and be prepared to take that next step.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, um, yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

No, very true.

Matt Edmundson:

When you know someone, you're more prepared to trust them.

Matt Edmundson:

And, uh, here we go.

Matt Edmundson:

Let's read the rest of what Nicola's put here, so, uh, had knowledge

Matt Edmundson:

of God is quite easy, but having God in your heart is a completely

Matt Edmundson:

different thing and place to be.

Matt Edmundson:

Yes, that's true, I can put that on there.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, yes it is, and I think, um, it's worth the time and investment to

Matt Edmundson:

do that, and, um, allowing the Holy Spirit to do that transforming work.

Matt Edmundson:

And so this is where, uh, we get back to what Chris was talking about, because

Matt Edmundson:

actually he was, he was bringing up those scriptures, like 1 John 3, 18, about Um,

Matt Edmundson:

uh, Christian faith, not just being words only, but actually also based on action.

Matt Edmundson:

So there's, there's what we say and there's what we do and those

Matt Edmundson:

two things have to marry up.

Matt Edmundson:

Right.

Matt Edmundson:

And this is where I think your comment, coming back to it, the professional

Matt Edmundson:

Christians, this is where professional Christians struggle is because what

Matt Edmundson:

they say and what they do don't.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Marry up.

Matt Edmundson:

Don't marry up.

Matt Edmundson:

Do they?

Matt Edmundson:

Whereas, um.

Matt Edmundson:

What we do and how we act has got to tie into our words.

Matt Edmundson:

So, um, and this is, this is probably the hardest thing because this is,

Matt Edmundson:

and this is where Christians get called hypocrites a lot, right?

Matt Edmundson:

So, we may profess to be a Christian and I think the example that Chris

Matt Edmundson:

gave, was, uh, giving grace to people when they, when they mess up.

Matt Edmundson:

And you leaned over to me and said, Oh, you don't do that.

Jan Burch:

No, I didn't, Matt.

Matt Edmundson:

In a jokey kind of way, I was going to say.

Matt Edmundson:

But it is, it is one of those things, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

It's like, yes, we are Christians.

Matt Edmundson:

Yes, we believe God, but, um, I also have my right to.

Matt Edmundson:

Have my pound of flesh from that person over there if they didn't

Matt Edmundson:

do what I said, um, and so it's, uh, that's where head knowledge

Matt Edmundson:

and heart start to wrestle, right?

Jan Burch:

Definitely, and, um, I think it's called integrity.

Jan Burch:

That's true.

Jan Burch:

You know, it's, it's okay being one thing, but you, you know, you've got to be that

Jan Burch:

when the, you know, when you're paying your You know, window cleaning bill, um,

Jan Burch:

whatever's going on, you know, when you're in the car and the person in front of you

Jan Burch:

didn't indicate and, you know, things like that bug me, but we should be the same

Matt Edmundson:

person.

Matt Edmundson:

We should.

Matt Edmundson:

We should.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I really need to make note of that because I'm definitely not the

Matt Edmundson:

same person when I drive sometimes.

Matt Edmundson:

Okay, well that's just

Jan Burch:

not good enough.

Matt Edmundson:

It's so true.

Matt Edmundson:

My daughter looks at me sometimes and questions whether I'm

Matt Edmundson:

actually a Christian when I drive.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, which is not, I mean, it, you know, it's not great.

Matt Edmundson:

I joke about it, but, um, uh, you know, it's, it is one of those things where.

Matt Edmundson:

You're right, the way we are in every aspect of our life, we

Matt Edmundson:

want it to mirror the gospel.

Matt Edmundson:

I do think sometimes if Jesus was driving a car, he would have a, he

Matt Edmundson:

would have a word with a few people.

Matt Edmundson:

Of course,

Jan Burch:

there's righteous anger.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, I don't think that's what you're talking about

Chris Holcombe:

then.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, probably is, but it's fair play really, it's fair play.

Matt Edmundson:

That is fair play.

Matt Edmundson:

But it's interesting, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

This, I think it's, there's this really interesting analogy that I

Matt Edmundson:

heard once, which I think is so true.

Matt Edmundson:

And that is, when the pressure is applied to us, what's on

Matt Edmundson:

the inside comes out, right?

Matt Edmundson:

So The analogy was a squeezy ketchup bottle, right?

Matt Edmundson:

It's not until you turn it upside down and squeeze it that you find

Matt Edmundson:

out what's really on the inside.

Matt Edmundson:

You could have, you know, a ketchup label on the outside, but it's not

Matt Edmundson:

until the pressures applied that you find out what's really on the inside.

Matt Edmundson:

And with Christians, I find it's the same.

Matt Edmundson:

We, we say we are Christians that, you know, blah, blah,

Matt Edmundson:

blah, and all of this stuff.

Matt Edmundson:

But when the pressures applied to us.

Matt Edmundson:

When we get squeezed a little bit, what's really in us starts to come out and

Matt Edmundson:

quite often what's in us is not ketchup, it's, um, it's, and it's really not

Matt Edmundson:

good, and it's, and we know what comes out of us because of what we say, right?

Matt Edmundson:

So, um, out of the abundance of the hearts, the mouth speaks,

Matt Edmundson:

Bible tells us in Proverbs, and so it's in those precious situations.

Matt Edmundson:

It's how you talk that you kind of go.

Matt Edmundson:

That's a real indicator of maybe something inside that needs to change.

Matt Edmundson:

So if, um, you know, I might moan when somebody cuts me up, but I,

Matt Edmundson:

I'm, what I am really aware of is if anything slightly hateful or hurtful

Matt Edmundson:

starts to come out of my mouth.

Matt Edmundson:

That's when I'm kind of going, God, I, there's something in here

Matt Edmundson:

that needs to change inside me because that's a heart thing.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, and so when the pressures are applied, uh, that's when we find

Matt Edmundson:

out what really, really makes us.

Matt Edmundson:

And this is where behavior, um, has to match what we believe, right?

Matt Edmundson:

So, um, what we say and how we act is super, super important.

Matt Edmundson:

Of course.

Jan Burch:

I, I think, um, you know, what Chris said as well with that.

Jan Burch:

Whether we like it or not, when we, you know, when we profess to be Christians,

Jan Burch:

when people that we work with know that we're Christians, they are watching

Jan Burch:

us, and your neighbours are watching, and your family who aren't Christians

Jan Burch:

are watching you, and it seems a bit unfair, but that's the way it is, and

Jan Burch:

um, I used to really struggle with this at work, um, I've never with it.

Jan Burch:

I've never been someone who's swore a lot or anything, it wasn't that, but it

Jan Burch:

was some days, you know, work is just tough, it's tough, but I, when I was a

Jan Burch:

young Christian, I kind of felt that I, I didn't want to be a bad witness, so I felt

Jan Burch:

like I had to always be happy, always be.

Jan Burch:

Um, on things always, you know, on time or blah, blah, blah, all good things,

Jan Burch:

but actually there, you are a human being and I think we will all get it wrong.

Jan Burch:

We will lose our temper.

Jan Burch:

We will get impatient.

Jan Burch:

We will be sarcastic, um, or gossip, you know, uh, okay, but I think it's.

Jan Burch:

Then recognizing that and saying I messed up there.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, and I've sometimes apologized to work colleagues for being impatient

Jan Burch:

Not saying, you know, it happens all the time, but I think it's okay.

Jan Burch:

We are human.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, we are gonna blow it You know, yeah, um, but I think it's also important to be

Jan Burch:

humble enough to say I'm really sorry You

Matt Edmundson:

know, totally totally agree.

Matt Edmundson:

It's really powerful, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

That I think sometimes it's when I've gone back to people and apologised, that

Matt Edmundson:

actually becomes the most powerful words.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

Because people go, well, yes, you are human, no, you're not perfect, but

Matt Edmundson:

the fact that you're big enough to come and apologise, that says a lot.

Matt Edmundson:

Absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

Do you know what I mean?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, and I, I think, again, What was it Chris said, the right, you do the right

Matt Edmundson:

thing because it's the right thing to do.

Matt Edmundson:

That's right.

Matt Edmundson:

Right.

Matt Edmundson:

And, um, and yeah, I, I think we, we, so I, it's interesting how you put it,

Matt Edmundson:

because you talked about how you felt like you needed to act and be a certain

Matt Edmundson:

way to be a good witness, like trying to act and be something that we're not.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

It's a big pressure.

Matt Edmundson:

It's a massive pressure, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

And actually, um, And I was, I think I was the same way for a long

Matt Edmundson:

time and it's, it's almost like I had to protect God's reputation

Jan Burch:

somehow.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, I mean?

Jan Burch:

Yeah, yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

And, um, and actually as the older I've got,

Matt Edmundson:

the more I've realized that I'm not sure I was protecting anything.

Matt Edmundson:

To be fair, I think that probably I was doing slightly more damage because

Matt Edmundson:

people, because this again comes back to the comment you made earlier about

Matt Edmundson:

professional Christians, you know.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, but I think.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, and people, the other thing is people look at it and go, well,

Matt Edmundson:

you know, if I need to become a Christian, I've got to live like

Matt Edmundson:

that, I've got to be totally perfect.

Matt Edmundson:

I can't, you know, I can't do drink, I can't do drugs, I can't, I can't

Matt Edmundson:

even take an aspirin, I can't sniff alcohol, you know, I can only wear

Matt Edmundson:

white, whatever it is, you know, whatever those beliefs are, um, which are not.

Matt Edmundson:

I mean, don't do drugs, obviously, but the rest of it we could

Matt Edmundson:

probably have a conversation about.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, but it's one of those where I think we give this impression to

Matt Edmundson:

people that they have to be something that they're not to be a Christian.

Matt Edmundson:

And actually, God just wants you, authentic

Jan Burch:

you, right?

Jan Burch:

Yeah, because I think if we continue down that road, we're setting people

Jan Burch:

up to fail and it's very unattractive.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, it's very unrealistic.

Jan Burch:

Um, you know, I, I, you are what you are.

Jan Burch:

Yes, we, I think we do have a, um.

Jan Burch:

We do have a responsibility in how, what language we use and, you know,

Jan Burch:

if we're kind to people and that's a choice that we make every day.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

Um, you know, but those things are really important, but we, you know,

Jan Burch:

God, there's grace, isn't there?

Jan Burch:

There is.

Jan Burch:

God shows us grace.

Jan Burch:

We can show it to other people and ourselves.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

I think.

Jan Burch:

Someone once said, um, you know, if you treat yourself

Jan Burch:

like you would your best friend.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

Because we can all be so hard on ourselves.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

Um, I, um, particularly struggle with that.

Jan Burch:

Are you your worst enemy?

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

You're our worst enemy.

Jan Burch:

Oh yeah, absolutely.

Jan Burch:

Mm.

Jan Burch:

You know, call yourself stupid, don't you?

Jan Burch:

Oh, what a flippid idiot.

Jan Burch:

And, um, we just have a, need a bit more grace for, for ourselves.

Jan Burch:

Mm.

Jan Burch:

Um, yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

I think that's one of the works that the Holy Spirit does

Matt Edmundson:

in you, isn't it, is actually you, it's really interesting that you, in

Matt Edmundson:

Christianity, one of the things that I, one of the transforming works I think

Matt Edmundson:

of the Holy Spirit is you start to see yourself the way the Holy Spirit sees you.

Matt Edmundson:

Right.

Matt Edmundson:

Now for me, this is what humility is.

Matt Edmundson:

Right.

Matt Edmundson:

So, uh, I've heard people talk about humility in a way that is basically

Matt Edmundson:

them talking down about themselves.

Matt Edmundson:

So for me to be humble, I have to say negative or bad things about myself,

Matt Edmundson:

but I'm not convinced that's what humility is, um, on any kind of level.

Matt Edmundson:

Now I'm not, you know, the Bible says we should think, think of ourselves, uh,

Matt Edmundson:

soberly, not more highly than we ought to, but think of ourselves soberly,

Matt Edmundson:

which is probably a great expression.

Matt Edmundson:

But humility is not me saying I'm rubbish.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, humility is me saying, I feel this way about myself, but

Matt Edmundson:

that's not the way God sees me.

Matt Edmundson:

So humility is seeing something not as you want to see it,

Matt Edmundson:

but seeing it as God sees it.

Matt Edmundson:

Absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

You know, the example of going back to the co worker, co worker, God would ask for

Matt Edmundson:

you to give grace to that co worker, even though you might want your pound of flesh.

Matt Edmundson:

Well, humility is saying, not my will, but your will be done, right?

Matt Edmundson:

It's saying, God, I'll do it your way.

Matt Edmundson:

But conversely, when it comes to yourself, humility is not necessarily...

Matt Edmundson:

Saying negative things or bad things about you.

Matt Edmundson:

Humility is saying what God says about you.

Matt Edmundson:

That's right.

Jan Burch:

Do you know what I mean?

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

And I, I much prefer that I actually annoys me when people

Jan Burch:

are self-deprecating at times.

Jan Burch:

Mm.

Jan Burch:

And I, I can do it.

Jan Burch:

That's what annoys me about myself.

Jan Burch:

It's actually, you know, it, it just doesn't.

Jan Burch:

The atmosphere is not great when people are saying, Oh, I'm so

Jan Burch:

rubbish, um, I failed again, um, you know, I can't do anything.

Jan Burch:

Well, you know, it's, it's almost like you've got to nip that in the bud.

Jan Burch:

What you did wasn't the greatest thing, but let's move on.

Jan Burch:

You are actually great.

Jan Burch:

You know, most of the time you are kind, you're loving, you're,

Jan Burch:

you know, you're very respectful.

Jan Burch:

So it's getting it into perspective.

Jan Burch:

And, you know, God, God doesn't wash his hands of us, does he?

Jan Burch:

When we, you know, very grateful that he doesn't.

Jan Burch:

Me too.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

We wouldn't be here, would we?

Matt Edmundson:

The thing about forgiveness is, you know, when God

Matt Edmundson:

forgives you of your sin, one could argue that God did that 2, 000 years ago, right?

Matt Edmundson:

So you've already been forgiven of the sin that you are asking

Matt Edmundson:

God for forgiveness for.

Matt Edmundson:

You know, I appreciate the semantics and there's different

Matt Edmundson:

ways theologically to look at this.

Matt Edmundson:

But one of the things that happens is when you go to God to confess

Matt Edmundson:

your sin, And he forgives you.

Matt Edmundson:

The question always then is, do you receive that in the sense that if

Matt Edmundson:

he forgives you, you're no longer worthless, you're no longer a failure.

Matt Edmundson:

Do you know what I mean?

Matt Edmundson:

This is all the self talk that we bring to it.

Matt Edmundson:

Actually, what God says is, no, you're righteous.

Matt Edmundson:

You're made whole in Christ, you know, you are a new creation, all

Matt Edmundson:

things possible to him who believes.

Matt Edmundson:

We're not, you know, in him we're more than conquerors, you know, by

Matt Edmundson:

grace you are saved and we could just go on and on and talk about

Matt Edmundson:

all the things that God says.

Matt Edmundson:

And so forgiveness often for me is the reconciling back of my

Matt Edmundson:

vision or my understanding of my own self in relation to God.

Matt Edmundson:

Now I appreciate that there is sin and that sin is evil, evil.

Matt Edmundson:

And in sin, no good thing can dwell, right?

Matt Edmundson:

Um, and I'm not justifying or excusing any kind of sin in me, but I'm also

Matt Edmundson:

aware of God's reconciliation, um, and his ability to, uh, to change my

Matt Edmundson:

life, you know, and bring around that.

Matt Edmundson:

I think when we get to heaven.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, you know, we pray the Lord's Prayer, don't we?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Quite often I find myself wondering what it's like in heaven.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I do.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, because if I'm praying, you know, your kingdom come, your will

Matt Edmundson:

be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Matt Edmundson:

It's like I'm praying for that now.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

To experience that now here on earth.

Matt Edmundson:

I don't know what heaven's actually like.

Matt Edmundson:

No.

Matt Edmundson:

And I don't, I don't think there's a lot of complaining in heaven.

Matt Edmundson:

I think there's a lot of rejoicing.

Matt Edmundson:

I think there's a lot of praise.

Matt Edmundson:

I

Jan Burch:

think, I think it's going to be.

Jan Burch:

Absolutely amazing.

Jan Burch:

I think, um, you know, it's just going to be everything and more, you know.

Jan Burch:

Um, I've no idea what that really looks like.

Jan Burch:

I know there'll be people singing and it'll be peaceful and I

Jan Burch:

think there'll be beautiful.

Jan Burch:

Water and you know what?

Jan Burch:

I think what I'd like is, no, is wild animals roaming around, you know, like,

Jan Burch:

like we see cats and dogs in the street.

Jan Burch:

I think there'll be lions and things, tigers, that absolutely thrills

Jan Burch:

me, but then they won't kill me or, you know, cause I'll already

Jan Burch:

be dead, but there'll be tame.

Jan Burch:

If you know what I mean.

Matt Edmundson:

Well, yeah, absolutely, it'd be like heaven on a big safari park.

Jan Burch:

That's what I'm looking forward to.

Matt Edmundson:

All I know, Jan, is I'm going to slide down those

Matt Edmundson:

streets of gold in my socks.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

And I'm just going to keep on going.

Matt Edmundson:

And we're going to have a sliding contest.

Matt Edmundson:

I think

Jan Burch:

it's going to be great

Matt Edmundson:

fun.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

Nicola said here, when I was up last week, which she was in Liverpool, she was with

Matt Edmundson:

Sharon, and I put myself down quite badly.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, here we go.

Matt Edmundson:

And Sharon said, don't talk about my friend like that.

Matt Edmundson:

That's right.

Matt Edmundson:

And since then I've been a bit more careful about how I talk about me.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, absolutely, Nicola.

Matt Edmundson:

Don't talk about my friend like that.

Matt Edmundson:

Love that though.

Matt Edmundson:

Sharon's got on this.

Matt Edmundson:

Sharon's my wife, by the way.

Matt Edmundson:

Go on, Shazza.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, she won't let you talk to herself like that.

Matt Edmundson:

No, absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

She's not a fan of it.

Matt Edmundson:

So, what time is it?

Matt Edmundson:

Goodness me.

Matt Edmundson:

Time is flying by at a million miles an hour.

Matt Edmundson:

Anything else in your notes in the closing minutes?

Jan Burch:

Um, I just think, um, what Chris said, our actions and our

Jan Burch:

behaviours then open up the doorway for us to be able to share our faith.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

Um, there's, I think, so many people saying, oh, I really...

Jan Burch:

I really struggle to tell, they know I'm a Christian at work on

Jan Burch:

my neighbours, but I find it hard to, um, to go the step further.

Jan Burch:

Um, but I, I just think it's about spending time with people.

Jan Burch:

Um, yeah, where, you know, in work, you might only have 10 minutes

Jan Burch:

here and there or on your break or, but I think I think it's okay to.

Jan Burch:

You know, meet up with people for a coffee at work and just get to

Jan Burch:

know them, let them get to know you.

Jan Burch:

And then I think naturally then, you know, what did you do at the weekend?

Jan Burch:

Um, what's going on in your family, you know, you know, just being real, being

Jan Burch:

honest about sharing, letting people in.

Jan Burch:

And I think, um, as we do that more, then the conversation will change.

Jan Burch:

You know, it'll get a bit more, a bit deeper, it'll, it will be about God.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

Not all the time, you know, but I think, I think of, you know,

Jan Burch:

it's like laying the foundation.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, it is.

Jan Burch:

Um, and then building those relationships.

Matt Edmundson:

Absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

Absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

Very good.

Matt Edmundson:

Well, how was your, uh, we've got a few minutes before I need to say

Matt Edmundson:

goodbye, I'm just kind of curious.

Matt Edmundson:

How was your first time?

Jan Burch:

I really enjoyed it.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

It's amazing how quick it goes, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Thanks for coming to Crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, thank you.

Matt Edmundson:

And it says here in my notes, and correct me if I'm wrong, Jan,

Matt Edmundson:

but you're hosting next week.

Matt Edmundson:

I am, with you.

Jan Burch:

Is it you again?

Jan Burch:

Is it me and you again

Matt Edmundson:

next week?

Matt Edmundson:

I think so.

Matt Edmundson:

Fab.

Matt Edmundson:

This is just the warm up.

Matt Edmundson:

Next week's going to be even better.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Got more jokes coming next week.

Matt Edmundson:

It's John Harding next week.

Matt Edmundson:

It is.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

It is.

Matt Edmundson:

You're right.

Matt Edmundson:

Look

Jan Burch:

at that.

Jan Burch:

I've done my homework.

Matt Edmundson:

Showing me up now because I obviously clearly

Matt Edmundson:

haven't done my homework.

Matt Edmundson:

I do it on the fly as we're looking at these things now.

Matt Edmundson:

Yes, that's it.

Matt Edmundson:

Next week we have John Harding speaking, carrying on our book, carrying on

Matt Edmundson:

our journey through the Book of Acts.

Matt Edmundson:

We've got Paul's farewell speech next week.

Matt Edmundson:

Then after that we've got Anna Kettle speaking.

Matt Edmundson:

We've got, uh, I'm doing one, Sharon's doing one, we've got Pete

Matt Edmundson:

Farrington, and then it's Christmas.

Matt Edmundson:

Hooray!

Matt Edmundson:

Christmas!

Matt Edmundson:

I'm starting to feel, I'm starting to feel a little bit Christmassy now.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I'm not getting, I'm not getting too into it just yet, but I'm starting to

Matt Edmundson:

feel a little bit Christmassy, which is...

Matt Edmundson:

Do you like Christmas, Matt?

Matt Edmundson:

I proper love it.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah,

Jan Burch:

I do as well.

Jan Burch:

Proper love Christmas.

Jan Burch:

I like the lights and music.

Matt Edmundson:

The magic of it, the magic of Christmas.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, yeah, I, we, it's our, Josh's birthday late November, so we

Matt Edmundson:

tend not to think about Christmas until we've got through that.

Matt Edmundson:

Until that's done, yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

So, in December we'll be, I'll be wearing the Christmas jumpers, no doubt.

Matt Edmundson:

Of

Jan Burch:

which you have, you've got a few, haven't you?

Jan Burch:

I've got a fair few

Matt Edmundson:

of the Christmas jumpers, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

I've not bought one for a few years, um, it's sort of put a

Matt Edmundson:

moratorium on me buying, uh, more Christmas jumpers because, you know,

Matt Edmundson:

frankly, I've got 4, 000 of them.

Matt Edmundson:

But yeah, so we've got all that coming up.

Matt Edmundson:

So yeah, do come and join Jan and myself.

Matt Edmundson:

Next week, uh, as we convert, uh, as we converse, uh, about John Harding's talk,

Matt Edmundson:

I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, I'll, I'll be here to, uh, just keep it all safe and

Jan Burch:

running smoothly and watching, Matt.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, keep the ship moving forward.

Matt Edmundson:

That's, uh, that's what we have here.

Matt Edmundson:

You're frightening me now.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Frightening myself, if I'm honest with you.

Matt Edmundson:

That's okay.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, coming up next week, we've talked about Promote the Zoom.

Matt Edmundson:

Yes, if you would like to join us.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, midweek, we have midweek groups online that do, uh, community online.

Matt Edmundson:

If you'd like to know more about that, do get in touch with us.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, you can find out more information on the website, which

Matt Edmundson:

has just come up on the screen.

Matt Edmundson:

If you're watching the video, www.

Matt Edmundson:

crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

church, if you're listening to the audio, or you can reach out to us

Matt Edmundson:

on social media at Crowd Church, uh, that's also on your screen.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, and we would love to hear from you.

Matt Edmundson:

I'll let you know the zoom links and all that sort of stuff.

Matt Edmundson:

Just get in touch with us.

Matt Edmundson:

Um, and we would love to hear from you.

Matt Edmundson:

You can also reach out to us, uh, if you have any prayer requests, we've had people

Matt Edmundson:

emailing us this week, uh, and people can WhatsApp us, the WhatsApp number's on the

Matt Edmundson:

website, we have people connecting with us via WhatsApp, uh, which is always great

Matt Edmundson:

from around the world, always love getting those messages, uh, so yes, you can

Matt Edmundson:

reach out to us through the website, www.

Matt Edmundson:

crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

church, or via social media, at Crowd Church, we would love to hear from you.

Matt Edmundson:

Thank you.

Matt Edmundson:

That's it from me.

Matt Edmundson:

That's it from Jan.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm just going through the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

I think I've got them all.

Matt Edmundson:

I think I have.

Matt Edmundson:

Uh, so I'm gonna click this button on here.

Matt Edmundson:

Anything else from you in closing?

Matt Edmundson:

No,

Jan Burch:

just thanks.

Jan Burch:

Thanks for having me.

Jan Burch:

It's

Matt Edmundson:

been great.

Matt Edmundson:

Show your love for Jan.

Matt Edmundson:

All right.

Matt Edmundson:

We'll see you later.

Matt Edmundson:

Have a great week.

Matt Edmundson:

Cheers, guys.

Matt Edmundson:

Thank you so much for joining us here on Crowd Church.

Matt Edmundson:

Now if you are watching on YouTube, make sure you hit the subscribe button as well

Matt Edmundson:

as that little tiny bell notification to get notified the next time we are live.

Matt Edmundson:

And of course, If you are listening to the podcast, uh, the live stream podcast,

Matt Edmundson:

make sure you also hit the follow button.

Matt Edmundson:

Now, by smashing the like button on YouTube or writing a review on your

Matt Edmundson:

podcast platform, it helps us reach more people with the message that Jesus really

Matt Edmundson:

does help us live a more meaningful.

Matt Edmundson:

and Purposeful Life.

Matt Edmundson:

So if you haven't done so already, be sure to check out our website www.

Matt Edmundson:

crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

church where you can learn more about us as a church, more about

Matt Edmundson:

the Christian faith and also how to connect into our church community.

Matt Edmundson:

It has been Awesome to connect with you and you are awesome.

Matt Edmundson:

It's just a burden you have to bear and hopefully we'll see you next time.

Matt Edmundson:

That's it from us.

Matt Edmundson:

God bless you.

Matt Edmundson:

Bye for now.

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