In this first episode of a two-part series on Finding Your Balance, hosts Tiffani Fritzsche and Kirk Fasshauer begin a compassionate and honest conversation about suicide awareness and prevention. They explore the growing impact of suicide in communities, break down common myths that keep people from speaking up, and emphasize the importance of using thoughtful, nonjudgmental language. The episode also sheds light on the often unseen emotional pain behind suicidal thoughts, the role of connection and belonging, and why asking someone directly about their well-being can be a powerful first step. Listeners are encouraged to take care of themselves as they engage with this important topic and to continue the conversation in part two.

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00:00 Tiffani

Welcome to Finding Your Balance, a mental health podcast. I'm Tiffani Fritzsche, a licensed mental health counselor, and here's my co-host, Kirk Fasshauer, licensed clinical social worker. Hello, everyone. Today, we're going to do something a little different. We are going to focus on a very sensitive topic, and please be kind to yourself as we do so. This episode is going to be longer than normal because we're going to take our time. Today, we're going to be talking about suicide awareness and prevention. As we go through, if you need to hit pause and take a break, practice some self-care, please do so.

00:30 Kirk

Let's begin. Yeah, it's absolutely a heavy topic. So, yeah, heed the warning. If you need to take the break, take the break. This is not a marathon. You can take it in small chunks. So, Kirk, whenever we think about suicide awareness, especially in small communities like ours, sometimes you get that idea of, well, this doesn't happen to us or this doesn't happen to people that I know. Some people have been incredibly fortunate to never have had suicide touch the lives of their family.

01:00 Tiffani

But unfortunately, that situation is becoming far, far less common. Correct. And that's a sad number to say. But statistically, it's likely that it will have touched every one of us in the coming years. It's one of those areas where, you know, we saw trends. I'm going to share some numbers here in a minute. And really, the actual numbers themselves aren't.

01:29 Kirk

as important as the trends that go with them. I tend to watch more of the trend than the actual number. And if we get into an upswing, that's worrisome. If it plateaus, that's worrisome too, because it might plateau high, but it's at least not growing. Unfortunately, since COVID, we've seen it starting to grow again.

01:50 Kirk

02:17 Kirk

and even has taken a look at those that don't choose this path. When you've got two people who face the same situation, one goes down the path of taking their life and the other does not, to try to figure out what are those protective factors, which we'll get into some of those here in a moment. So the numbers are gathered, and it takes some time for them to weed through the statistics on death.

02:45 Kirk

03:14 Kirk

Sometimes denial is a huge factor in a lot of that. So as we talk about this topic, one of the stats that's out there is that about every 11 minutes somebody is dying by their own hand. So every 11 minutes. So as we talk about this, you know, probably about three people will have taken their lives in that time frame.

03:43 Kirk

It is the 11th leading cause of death for all Americans. So COVID bumped it down. It was the 10th leading cause for the longest time. And then it got bumped down because of COVID to 11th. It's the second leading cause for young people. And young people are, what we're referring to here is 15 to about 35. So it's the second leading cause of death. First, leading cause of death, if you want to venture a guess, is accidents.

04:14 Kirk

When we think about that, you think about homicide and stuff like that. Homicide is actually way down on the list. So suicide is way up there. And there is somebody taking their own lives. So for every homicide, there are two deaths by suicide. So it's much more prevalent. But what hits the news is the homicide. And unfortunately…

04:41 Kirk

The only time you really hear about suicide in the news is if it's a celebrity. And they proceed with caution because they don't want to highlight the last act of that person's life because that tends to create copycat situations. So they're very cautious about talking about somebody taking their life in the news and over-romanticizing the situation. It's one of these topics that's difficult.

05:11 Kirk

Because, one, you don't want to treat it lightly, first and foremost. Second of all, you don't want to create those copycat situations. Oh, look, this celebrity did it, and so therefore I want to. But at the same time, you want to celebrate the person's life. And that's what we should do, is celebrate the person's life, not their final act in a lot of these cases.

05:40 Kirk

And it's difficult to talk about. We want to talk about it because this is definitely a topic where if you know something, you want to talk about this. We should be discussing it, but we don't. And I'll get into some of the myths around that here in a minute. But it's a tough topic to even broach for a lot of people. But this is definitely something where silence kills. So if you've got somebody you care about.

06:08 Kirk

Somebody you know who's contemplating taking their life, I really encourage you to broach the subject. Easier said than done. I realize that because it's a hard question to ask. So when you think about how to ask, I know we've talked in earlier episodes about I just don't know what to say or I don't know the right words.

06:30 Tiffani

Sometimes not knowing the right words causes people to not say anything at all. Right. And so there's some language we want to keep in mind when we're talking about suicide because, well, we do want to say something. We want to make sure that whenever we are talking about it, we're talking about it in a way that's going to create a vulnerable, safe environment. So one of the things that I know that you are very passionate about is whenever we are talking about suicide, we don't say someone committed suicide. Right.

07:00 Tiffani

I even see in the media, and the way that we would describe it a lot of times is, you know, someone died by suicide or someone attempted suicide. Someone, I can't think of another example, but we typically stay away. And why do you think it's so important, like the language we use when we're talking about it? So language is important, even when we're talking about any of these issues, but in particular this. So think about what do people commit?

07:30 Kirk

When you think about that, what comes into a lot of people's minds is, well, we commit crime, right? And so, yeah, while some people may believe, you know, taking one's life is a moral crime, you know, that it's not a crime. It's a final act of loss of hope for a lot of people. So the language is important that somebody died by suicide.

08:00 Kirk

as opposed to they've committed suicide. So it's more so for the survivors of suicide, and that's an odd term in the industry, because survivors of suicide aren't those individuals who attempted to take their lives and lived. It's those people left behind by somebody's death.

08:18 Tiffani

Well, that's so helpful to kind of think about because you're right. People are left behind and they're hurting. And I think a lot of times if you are someone who is left behind, I have known people who have lost their life to suicide and it's hard being on the other side of it. And you have all the questions. Well, gosh, what did I miss? Or gosh, you know, I should have done this or I should have done that. And I think.

08:42 Tiffani

What we need to do a lot of times is to look and say, okay, well, what are the risk factors associated with suicide? What should we be looking for? What are the protective factors? And so when you dig into it, I think a lot of times we see, well, what would even lead someone to go down that path? Well, and you and I have talked before, and two things that kind of come up that I see is…

09:03 Tiffani

It seems to be someone is struggling with the problem that they feel is unsolvable in that moment and they don't see another way out. And alternatively, someone experiencing an unbearable pain where they're like, ah, the pain of living is so much more than what I can handle right now. And looking for a way really to make that pain end. Would you agree that that's what you typically see? Yes.

09:29 Kirk

So when you talk about pain, people, when they hear the word pain, they think of a physical pain. Well, if it hurts in the arm, you do something to soothe it and make it feel better. What we're talking about is not that type of pain. We're talking about an emotional pain. That's hard because you don't always see it's there if you're the friend or the sister or the brother. Right. Because with the physical pain, the example I use in a lot of talks I do on suicide awareness is, you know,

09:58 Kirk

We go to the ER. We tell the doctor. We've broken our arm. And they say, oh, let's check this out. They take a picture. And there's the picture. There's the evidence. Oh, yes, I can see the crack in your bone here. And then they wrap it up and put it in a nice cast. And, you know, the cast is in.

10:16 Kirk

Bright colors and, you know, people get to choose the color if they want and stuff like this. And then they parade that around like it's a badge of honor for some situation. Look, I took out six ninjas or, you know, I challenged myself here on a ski slope that I shouldn't have been on. And, you know, things like that. People go around and sign that. Oh, yeah, yeah. And there's a whole story behind it. Nobody's doing that when they're depressed.

10:44 Kirk

or experiencing psychosis. No one's going around pointing at their forehead, I'm depressed today, sign here. So it's hard to share that because we use phrases that are well-intended, but for the person experiencing that emotional pain, those phrases hit like daggers. Oh, it could be worse. Oh, God doesn't give you anything you can't handle.

11:14 Kirk

Just pick yourself up. You'll feel better tomorrow. And again, those are all well-meaning terms. It's coming from people who do care and they're trying to help. But those phrases, those helpful, quote-unquote, helpful phrases do not hit the way they anticipated. They're kind of dismissive. They're dismissive. They can be…

11:41 Kirk

more painful because maybe I should be getting over this and I'm not. And this can be a number of things, number of factors come into play. You feel like something's wrong with you that you are even being, you know, that's a circle at all. Well, what you said about like, you know, if somebody has a cast and they walk around, I feel like if you have a medical condition where you need additional support, maybe you need accommodations or, you know, you've broken your arm and so now you can't do, you know, this.

12:10 Tiffani

you feel okay asking for help, or you feel maybe even a little entitled to a little extra self-care, right? Like, oh, sorry, I can't do that thing because of this. Oh, look at this. Right? Cast. And not that, like, it's not not valid, of course, but I feel like it's okay to ask for help. But on the other side, if it's a mental health emergency or if it's a mental health pain,

12:33 Tiffani

Instead of asking for help, sometimes I think there's a shame of like, I don't want to ask for help. I don't want people to know they're going to judge me. There is from the person who's going through that experience. There's also other myths out there that kind of prevent us from even asking. And some are pretty powerful myths. One of the big ones out there is that if I talk about suicide, it only puts the idea in somebody's head. That is so powerful. I mean, I've seen counselors.

13:02 Kirk

You know, trained individuals in our profession say, I don't talk to my clients about it because I don't want to put the idea in their head. That just, I find that very incredulous. One, we're therapists. We get to ask all sorts of questions. We get to open up the can of worms and look at it. And that's part of what we should be doing. But we're afraid to go there because of that myth. We don't want to put the idea in their head. The reality to that, though, is the idea is already there.

13:31 Kirk

And if you're picking up on something, you should say something. Approach the topic sensitively. You're so right because I've been there as the therapist and I see something and I say, hey, what's going on here? And I'll ask the question. And kids especially are very quick to tell you.

13:52 Tiffani

Are you kidding? No. If it's really not anything. And I always say, listen, you mean so much to me. It's so important that we make sure we know that you're safe. And so I'd much rather you look at me and say no than me not ask and you not be able to tell. Right. And people are afraid because, A.

14:13 Kirk

The answer might surprise them, for one. And they don't want to make their friend mad if they were wrong. But again, I always say it's better to ask the question and be wrong about it because that opens up a dialogue. Because you're picking up on something to say to that person, well, I'm glad to hear you're not thinking that, but this is why I'm worried about you. This is what I'm seeing. This is what I'm picking up on. This is why I asked you the question.

14:43 Kirk

Good friends do that. They help each other out, you know. So, yeah, it doesn't put the idea in their head. It actually, when that question gets asked, because I want you to think about a very hard decision you've ever had to make.

14:56 Kirk

You're always thinking about it. You keep it close to the vest. If it's real personal, you may share it with a few people. But in this case, they don't often share. They keep it very close to the vest and hold on to it. But if somebody sees the chink in the armor and asks the question, more often than not, you see a sense of relief come over that person. I mean physically. You see the weight lifted off. You see a weight lifted off and it's like, how did you know?

15:26 Kirk

What are you seeing? And again, it offers that opportunity to have a dialogue about the emotional pain they're experiencing. Well, and if you look deeper into that, I really think it's because we all crave a sense of connection. We crave a sense of feeling like we're not alone. And so when somebody really sees you and they can see the pain that maybe you're trying to hide, maybe the pain you don't even realize is there, you have that breath of…

15:56 Tiffani

They see me. I'm not alone. I'm matter.

16:00 Tiffani

And that sense of belonging comes back. And when you look at risk factors associated with suicide, and there really is, if you look, you see risk factors. And one of the biggest ones I see is this lack of belonging. Like, well, who even cares if I'm here? It wouldn't matter. Yeah. And, you know, Dr. Thomas Joyner, who's out of FSU.

16:22 Kirk

So he's a Florida boy. One of the well-known suicidologists, he studies the issue of suicide, does a talk on, and he wrote a book on why people die by suicide. In his theory, he talks about just that, the belongingness or thwarted belongingness. And thwarted belongingness can…

16:44 Kirk

I mean, a couple of things. It could be stage of life kinds of things or a sudden change in one's lifestyle or what have you or loss of a job. So when you're part of something, great. You feel like you're a part of and can belong and connect. But then something comes along that changes that. You get fired. You retire. You move on. You move to a different state for whatever reason.

17:13 Kirk

Those things can kind of thwart that belongingness. And for those who are at that desire for suicide, according to joiners, this is something that can be very impactful. The other part to that is the burdensomeness. And that's why often people don't share what's going on, is they don't want to be a burden to their friends or to their family.

17:43 Kirk

More often than not, the friends and the family go, if I had only known, I would do anything for them. If I had only known the pain they were going through. And people mask it well. They don't necessarily have a diagnosable condition, but that's a small percentage that don't. A large percentage do, and they mask it well, and depression being one of the main ones.

18:11 Kirk

They hide it well. And I love the commercial that's out there. I forget what medication it is, but they have people walking around with this mask with a smiley face on it, and they put it up there. And it talks about masking your depression. And a lot of people do that rather well, and their private lives are just very difficult. There was a recent situation in the news about a football player who, you know.

18:35 Kirk

We don't really know all the things or all the details that were going on in his personal life, but it led up to a couple of bad events back to back all of a sudden, and he took his life, which is unfortunate. So what was going on before? They don't quite, not everything, because it's fresh, not everything has come out yet, but I'm sure there's some other things there, but the friends probably aren't there because they didn't know.

19:04 Kirk

You know, they didn't know because you put on a good front. When you hear that all the time, I didn't know. Yeah. Man, I didn't see it. And I think so for so many of us, life is hard. And so you got to get through it. So what do you do? You take a breath and you mask. And if you don't have a circle of support who you can be vulnerable with, it'd be yourself and take off that mask. That's a lonely way to live. It is. And often people, you know.

19:29 Kirk

that are contemplating this, they're very sensitive to other people's emotions as well. And so they're like, well, I know Tiffani's going through a tough time now, and I don't want to put my burdens on her as well, so I don't talk about it.

19:48 Kirk

Funny thing in our minds is trying to minimize how bad things are. I mean, we do that a lot, even with other things. You go to the doctor's office and you feel this way and you tell the doctor, oh, well, it's not that bad, yet it's gushing blood. It's like, ah, it's just a small flesh wound. We minimize the seriousness of what we're going through.

20:10 Kirk

We need to be honest. We need to be honest with ourselves as well as those around us about saying, this hurts. This hurts. I don't understand why it hurts, but it does. And it's okay not to understand why. People are going to want to know why. Well, why does that hurt? I don't understand. The other thing, too, Tiffani, is when people are trying to help out and using those…

20:37 Kirk

well-intended terms and things like this, they have a frame of reference that is limited to what's in the media. So I said depression. Well, when you and I talk about depression, we're talking about a clinical depression. When somebody on the street or friends are talking about, well, I'm feeling depressed today, they don't mean the same thing we're talking about. So depression in a clinical sense is the presence of certain symptoms.

21:06 Kirk

Every day, not all the time, but for the majority of the time, every day for at least two weeks. And we've worked with people that have had them for months and years struggling with these feelings. So that's a very different kind of depression.

21:25 Kirk

So when people hear depression, well, I understand depression. I was depressed on Monday because my package didn't come in on time, and I was kind of looking forward to it, and I'm feeling kind of blah. Well, that's what they mean. They're blah. They're kind of sad maybe. And it's not the same thing. It's not the same kind of pain. It's a different kind of level of pain. It's the difference between a paper cut and a I've cut off my finger kind of

21:54 Kirk

difference as far as pain goes. So again, people are trying to be helpful sometimes when they say these terms. They just don't know what else to say. Well, and using that analogy of the paper cut and, you know, accidentally, you know, getting the tip of your finger, you know, both require support. But how do you feel if you're the person, you know, where the tip of your finger got cut off and someone hands you a Band-Aid? Yeah.

22:20 Tiffani

And you seem ungrateful if you don't say thank you, but also that's not enough. And also maybe you don't know what you need. That's so hard. So as we move deeper into this topic, we're going to be going into risk factors, protective factors, and warning signs.

22:37 Tiffani

But as we move into part two, and so for now, we'll stop here. And if you're listening with us, hang on and please join us for the second episode. We are so happy you joined us. Please be mindful of your self-care. And if you do need support, there are resources around. We have 988, and we have a lot of community resources. Our Peace River Center has their crisis line. It's 863-519.

23:02 Kirk