This episode features a compelling discussion on the innovative approach to addressing veteran homelessness through container homes, led by Tom Zimmerman from Veterans Outreach of Pennsylvania. Tom shares the inspiring journey behind the development of a tiny home community designed specifically for veterans, highlighting the importance of supporting those who have sacrificed for their country. As the conversation unfolds, listeners learn about the project’s milestones, challenges faced during the COVID-19 pandemic, and the collaborative efforts of the community to raise funds and resources. Additionally, Chris Conover from Tiny Custom House joins the conversation, providing insights into the construction and benefits of container homes, including their structural integrity and customizable designs. The episode emphasizes the need for sustainable, affordable housing solutions while fostering a sense of community and belonging for veterans re-entering civilian life.

Takeaways:

• Container homes provide a sustainable alternative to traditional housing, aligning with eco-friendly living.
• The Veterans Outreach project in Pennsylvania demonstrates a successful model for helping homeless veterans.
• Building a container home requires minimal site preparation, making the process efficient and quick.
• Community involvement and corporate sponsorships have been crucial in supporting veteran housing initiatives.
• Container homes can be customized to offer a luxurious living experience despite their compact size.
• The structural integrity of shipping containers makes them a safe and durable housing option.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Veterans Outreach of Pennsylvania
• Ideal Home Improvement
• Legacy Custom Homes
• Stardust Building Supplies
• Mohawk Flooring
• Renewal by Andersen
• Tiny Custom Houses

Since the dawn of time, mankind has searched for ways to shelter themselves from the elements.

Over the centuries, these shelters have evolved from bamboo huts to concrete towers.

The last few years, there's been a push to save the planet.

Are you ready to embark on a more sustainable lifestyle?

Look no further.

You're about to enter the adventures of container home living.

And now, contractor, radio and TV personality and your host for Boxcar Universe, Steve Dubell.

Hi, I'm Steve Dubell, host of Boxcar Universe, along with my co host Erica Thompson.

And here's what's coming up on this week's edition of Boxcar Universe.

We have Tom Zimmerman from Veterans Outreach of Pennsylvania with us and he's going to give us an update on the project that he started as we were talking about before we started the show about a year ago when we first met, he was just breaking ground in Pennsylvania for the homeless veterans in building a tiny home village.

And that's going to be really exciting.

I can't wait to hear what Tom has to tell us and how much progress they've made in the last year and all that and more on this week's edition of Boxcar Universe, your home for containers, sustainable lifestyle living.

And I'd like to welcome all our listeners to Boxcar Universe as we wind down towards Halloween.

Erica, you know, it's maybe, oh, you know, and by the way, for all our listeners, or maybe for some of your listeners who just found us okay, besides being the top notch designer that Erica is, I've been told, but I'm still waiting to actually test it, that she is a great cookie maker.

I am.

I know, I know.

And Halloween's coming.

So are you bringing, are you bringing cookies next week?

Maybe, Maybe.

Possibly.

Possibly.

Oh, yeah, it is the 31st.

Wow.

That's right.

Yeah.

October 31st.

Yeah.

You know, and then, you know what comes right after that, you know, in the beginning of November?

£10.

Well, yeah, well, you have veterans, we have Veterans Day coming up real soon.

And obviously this is, I guess we could call this our early Veterans Day show because Tom Zimmerman, our guest, he's, he's a very, you know, man in demand, as they say, and he's got a lot on his plate.

But let's welcome Tom into the show today.

Tom Zimmerman from Veterans Outreach of Pennsylvania.

Tom, great to have you back on the show again.

How have you been?

I've been fantastic, Steve.

Thank you for having me.

And you know, as we were talking before the show, I can't believe it's been a year.

It's it flew by.

I know.

You know, I couldn't believe it.

I was like, you know, and I thought, I thought it was March of this year, but I'm, I must have been thinking of something else because.

And I looked back at my notes and it was, it was October 4th or 7th last year that we had you on the show.

Well, this is really appropriate too, this time of year.

I mean, I know you guys talk about Halloween, but with Veterans Day coming up and with our organization and helping our veterans who are experiencing homelessness, so, you know, spreading awareness is huge.

So first of all, I want to thank you guys for inviting me.

I want to thank you for supporting our mission and I'd love to give you guys some updates.

Yeah, I'd love to hear it.

But tell you what, why don't you start out by giving our listeners a little bit of history on how you got this project underway and how it got started and then we can get into all the great information and how far you've gotten so far.

Sure.

I'm from Central PA.

I grew up here.

The only time I was away from this was when I went to West Virginia University and I graduated from there, came back to the area, started my businesses and had a few different things and been a 35 year entrepreneur.

And as we, as my wife and I knew was getting into retirement, we wanted to give back and we wanted to give back and make a difference.

And it is a humbling experience to have a military burial.

And it was wonderful.

It was wonderful for the family.

It was goosebumpy type of feeling.

But I was a little bit upset because my father was dead and he didn't get to benefit anything.

And so it dawned on me when I was able to sell our businesses and what I was going to do was to give back to veterans and give back to veterans who have struggled and who have not succeeded being able to transition into civilian life.

And I clicked on it and watched it for two minutes and I told her, I said, we need one of these in central Pennsylvania.

And that's how we actually got started.

She says, I'm in if you're in and we started making phone calls.

We started learning about different communities, different tiny homes, how we can make this.

And we turned it into our.

And made it into a therapeutic community.

We needed to raise about four and a half million dollars.

We started it right during COVID so it was a little bit challenging.

And we started taking in our veterans on June 10, three short weeks later.

Wow, that's pretty amazing.

You know, and obviously, I'm sure, you know, Pennsylvania is one of the states, especially with our election, it has, is the center of attention.

Everybody wants to make sure they win Pennsylvania, but I think the best thing that they could do is obviously, you know, support and win for our veterans that are out there.

And I, I commend you for that, for that, for getting started with that.

Tell us, was it when you first started out in fundraising, how difficult was it to find people in and basically share their vision with you?

Great question.

And I wear it on my sleeve and I talk.

And as you can tell, I have passion about our veterans.

You know, one thing that we were very clear in our message is that it was not about politics, it was not about race.

It was about if you were an American and you were willing to raise your right hand and sacrifice your life for our freedom, you deserve better.

And the idea in the military is, and they say this quite a bit, is that when they're at war is that no man left behind.

And that is true.

They will bring everybody home one way or the other.

However, I felt that we were leaving them at.

Leaving them and deserting them here on our homeland.

And it was just very, very frustrating for me.

So the message was, it's not about politics.

It's not about.

And we need to help those and we need to step up.

The sell was actually very easy, Steve.

I mean, and that's one thing I want to kind of talk a little bit about the community here, even though as divided as we are as Americans right now.

And that is troubling to me, that this project has brought all kinds of people together.

And it's very humbling to see, even on the corporate front, where competitors are standing next to each other, but working for a better cause, and that causes our veterans.

And so once we got some momentum and we got some bigger corporations here and the word got out and it went from the vision to the mission, and that Mission was serving our veterans.

It just started snowballing, and we actually created a board that is very, well, diverse in multiple different areas regarding services and homelessness.

We have a couple attorneys, we have HR people, and then we have business people.

And you know, that that core group laid the foundation and people bought in, and they're still buying in.

But we're just very humbled how it has brought the community together.

I can imagine that.

Yeah, that.

That was something that was.

It was so very important.

But, you know, making that initial contact in getting.

Getting the vision out, obviously, I know with some of the work that I do, it's important that we have, depending on the type of project, some good investors and some people that can see the vision that you have.

And that's so important that it's like we could never do enough for our veterans because there's no price that you could put on anything that we could possibly do.

When someone puts their life on the line for you, I mean, it just.

It's just amazing.

It is, It's.

It's one that.

You know, I've always said this from the very beginning, and I'm a very humbled person.

I don't need to be the smartest person in the room.

I just need that person sitting next to me.

And we also had some very key people in Central PA that was well connected.

I think you guys might have heard about the sixth degree of separation of Kevin Bacon.

Well, we got a couple people on our board.

It's like a second degree of separation here in Harrisburg.

And they just knew everybody.

And once we got a couple big corporations involved, such as the Hershey Chocolate family, which, you know, hershey is only 7 miles here from Harrisburg.

Te connectivity and some of the bigger boys.

And once they got in, then that kind of like opened up the doors for a lot of these smaller organizations.

But corporations, I bet you we had about 40 or 50 corporations that did in kind donations, which means that they didn't give us money, but.

But they provided services and labor for free.

We had our flooring donated by Mohawk Flooring, and then we had a local installer provide all the services to lay it.

We had Renewal by Andersen that donated all the doors and windows, and then we had laborers come in and install them.

So it's been a community of love, and I think it took way too long.

It took us six years.

But people in this kind of nonprofit world says what you guys have accomplished in six years, especially during COVID is a.

Is nothing short of a miracle.

Oh, yeah.

Reaching out during COVID time is, I mean, that was just tough reaching anybody during that time.

Everybody was on lockdown.

Everybody was on lockdown and everybody didn't know if they're going to have a job tomorrow.

And you know, so it was very, very difficult.

But again, the mission, the veterans, the being able to.

And I'm very proactive.

So what I do is I challenge these organizations and say, you know, we all talk the talk, but we have to walk the walk.

And it's one thing to stand on the sidelines and not do anything when you know something needs to be done.

And if you can find that passion and do something about it, make a difference.

And it's our time to give back to those that have sacrificed so much.

Yeah, it's pretty amazing.

So obviously putting the companies came together for the actual build.

What about, what about the veterans?

Okay, how were they, were they selected or how did they come about to be part of it?

Like who gets, who gets to live there?

So, you know, our community here is located on five acres of land we are on right next to the Susquehanna River.

It's beautiful, it's serene, it's perfect location.

It's near public transportation.

It used to be an old steel mill that took us out of the, the 100 year flood zone and put us in the 500 year floodplain because of all the fill.

We have a leadership team.

We have, it's a 24, 7 facility.

We have 15 tiny homes.

Each tiny home is 210 square foot.

We're saying that not all veterans would qualify because this is not a program that you can just sit around and watch TV all day long.

This is a four phase process where the first phase is getting you healthy, you know, sleeping, eating, getting you in front of the doctors.

Second phase is putting together an individual service plan with our clinical team to put a program together to address the issues that caused you to become homeless.

And then phase three is working with the corporations and the veterans to get them jobs and employment.

And phase four is to have a graduation and have them, you know, reenter into society and then come back as a mentor.

So it's about an eight month process.

It varies.

You know, some could be a little bit shorter, some could be over a year.

But there's questions that be asked.

And some veterans actually have turned us down because they thought they were going to get three square meals in a bed and not have to do anything.

But it's a program that's going to hold you accountable.

And it's what we call, we're going to give you a hand up.

We're not giving you a hand out.

You know, it's designed that way.

There's no kitchen in the tiny home.

We have an industrial kitchen in the community center.

So each morning they come in and they eat together as a group.

And then we do that because that's what they were like in the military.

They went to the mess hall, they went to that.

So we're kind of bringing back that environment of what they did and how they were successful when they were in the military and then hold them accountable.

And just like they did in the military, you know, you're only as strong as your weakest link.

And they have jobs to do.

They have performances and they have checks.

And if, and if they don't all do their jobs, they don't get to go away to go fishing on the weekend.

You know, like they're held accountable.

And they also got to make progress.

And as long as they make progress, they have a place to stay.

And our Veterans are sleeping 12 to 14 hours every night for the first three to four weeks because they haven't felt safe for so long.

They either had to worry about the environment they were sleeping in, they had to worry about people stealing stuff for them.

They had to worry about all kinds of things.

Now they got a place they can call their own and they can put their head on a pillow and feel safe and comfortable, but it's not big enough that they stay isolated.

The idea is for them just to have a place to call their own, have their own shower, have their own little tv.

But all the magic will be done in the community center.

All right, we're going to take a short break.

When we come back, we're going to have more from Tom and some information about.

You know, one of the things that I would love to do is actually clone your system, Tom, and bring it here to Phoenix because that would be an awesome thing to do here because we've got, you know, our air force base here over on the west side of Phoenix, saying in there a lot of veterans here in Phoenix and I'm sure they would be do a lot of good.

But stay tuned.

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All right, we are back and you are listening to Boxcar Universe.

And we are here with Tom Zimmerman who as we, as we could say, he, him and his wife masterminded the tiny home community for veterans in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

And you know, we were talking a little bit in the break about the design aspect of what's going on.

And Erica, what some of the things do you think obviously that are important that, and I'm sure Tom will agree that you put, put into when you, when you figure out something like that, what, what are you going to put in in something that's 210 square feet.

Start with the ADA footprint.

And really that's what you would have to mark out first is the space for the bathroom and the clearances and then fit in the, the bed and the sitting area.

That would be my plan of attack for in there because everything is based upon meeting those codes and in that space.

So just by putting the puzzle together, you work around those parameters and then you get an efficient functioning space.

Right.

And I think you were right, Tom, that, you know, I'm sure, like you say, a lot of those veterans were, were not living in something that it doesn't sound very elegant, but it's very, it's very usable and it is, it's very functionable, functional.

Thank you.

That was the word I was looking for.

And Erica, she was spot on.

You know, it is, it is, you know, it's not, it's not a, you know, Taj Mahal, but to them it is a Taj Mahal because of where they came and what they had or what they didn't have that they are just so thankful and so grateful that having a good design person.

And Eric, I would love to see some of your work, but I think that's, you know, that's definitely something that is key, key to the very beginning of a process.

And we were very fortunate to have Some like minded people to, you know, brainstorm and come up with that.

Yeah, I mean, and it's, yeah, it's, it's a lot of pieces of the puzzle and you know, a lot of people, they, they see that this, they see the, the results.

They don't know what has gone into it.

And just some of the things that you've touched on, which I'm sure there are a thousand more things that, that go into all this, but when it comes out, it, it comes out right.

And it had to be such a gratifying feeling to have it all finished and then have the first veterans basically come.

And what kind of, what kind of, you know, how did they feel when they first saw it, when they first moved in?

So what was some of the reactions that you got?

First of all, the, with the veterans that we are really housing and supporting and providing this therapeutic model are very, when a veteran comes to us, most likely there is some type of issue, whether it be ptsd, mental health issues, addiction issues, and when they come to veterans, outreach and because there's not really anything local like this on the east coast, there's different housing models, tiny home models, you know, seems to be popular.

But the therapeutic clinical model was what we were different and what we brought to the table.

What we found when they first got here is they were broken.

They didn't trust the system, they didn't trust us.

They were very apprehensive.

They wouldn't look you in the eye, they didn't, you know, they were just, it was just almost sad to say that, you know, here we're going to help you, but they didn't believe you.

And we had to prove and we had to build those relationships up so they wouldn't look you in the eye.

They were always on their guard and they were short.

And so part of the intake process is to give them about a week of just getting acclimated and getting adjusted because it's such a big, you know, stress level and anxiety level for a lot of these guys with ptsd.

But once they buy into the system and they buy into the model, it's almost like we're organizing their structure as when they were in the military and told what to do 24 7.

But with the therapeutic community model, they're in charge.

They're the ones that make the choice.

We're just here to help guide them and to provide the services and to get them to where they can become independent.

And this actually run by them.

I mentioned earlier that there's four phases we Have, I think, three veterans now that are in phase two, and they're leading the meetings.

They're taking charge.

They do the House inspections.

They get, you know, different duties and jobs, and they're thriving.

And now when I come down to the community center, the veterans that.

They see my car, they're looking for me, and they want to tap me on the shoulder and shake my hand and thank us for everything that we're doing for that.

And, you know, it's kind of like one of those things where I say, no, we need to thank you, and this is for you guys.

But it's only as good as what you make out of it.

This is where we're going to help you.

We're going to, you know, we're going to have that tough love, and we're going to hold you accountable, and you got to.

You got to do this, you know, but we're here to help you, and that's what they need.

And so we're working on the mind, body and soul.

We're trying to reconnect them with their family members because they've really been disconnected.

They've been.

They burned a lot of bridges.

We're working with getting them jobs.

We're working them with following.

But there we took them to a local baseball game, and they actually wrote a nice letter to the baseball team for thanking them, for inviting them to come.

And, you know, they're just so grateful.

It's just really humbling.

And they're cleaning.

They're taking care of this.

And the other day, the lawnmower broke, and we fixed it.

One of my board members came down and he fixed it very handy.

And there was three veterans standing there.

And the one guy said, well, I'll use the riding mower, and you use the push mower.

And the other guy used the weed whacker.

And the one veteran said, well, he has a bum knee.

Why don't you let him use the riding mower and you push and I'll do.

And it was like.

And I just turned around and said, thank you, guys.

Thank you.

And they're like, this is our home.

Yeah, and that's it.

So it's so important that they all work together like that.

It's working.

It really is.

So where do you see this?

You know, now that you've got that established, where do you see.

Besides maintaining the community that's there.

Where do you see?

What's the next.

What's the next mission?

So, you know, we need to raise about a million dollars a year to run this being a Nonprofit, it's a 24.

7 facility.

So staffing, programming, we need.

We need to let people know that we're not done.

We're just starting.

You know, like, we were great.

Thank you for the four and a half million for helping build the project.

But now it's operational, you know, and now we.

To maintain that, we now need to work out the kinks.

You know, we have a great business plan.

We've.

We have some great employees.

We have great leadership, but it never goes as planned.

You know, there's always issues, and when you learn and you change your policies, and we need to get a little bit more under our feet.

And then what we want to do is we want to reach out to other communities and other counties and cities and say, hey, here's a model.

We're willing to help you.

We've done it.

And we just want to be the guide because, you know, our job is to end homelessness among our veterans.

And wouldn't be great in 20 years if we said we had zero homelessness.

Right now we're at like 34,000 across the United States.

Oh, it's just amazing.

And so.

But we all need to pitch in.

Yeah.

It's so very important.

So how can our listeners.

If.

And I encourage all our listeners, if you have any connections out there with your community and you think that this, you know, project would work in your community, I urge you to make sure that you reach out to Tom and his staff to make sure that you get some information so that you could take this to your community leaders and see what.

See what you can do with it.

Because that's just.

It's a.

It's a labor of love.

How else can you say it?

It's.

I'm actually working more and harder now than when I had my own business.

But I tell you what, you're right.

You know, it.

It matters, you know, to the heart.

And I'm getting so, so much gratification, so much being humble, that it's just seeing the difference really makes.

But they can reach out to us on our website by going to veterans outreach of pa.org and that's veterans outreach of pa.org or follow us on social media with our Facebook page, LinkedIn, Instagram, and again, Veterans Outreach of Pennsylvania.

And find us, search us, reach out to us.

There's volunteer sheets.

There's ways that you can contribute.

We have a brick campaign where you can sponsor a brick of a loved one that will be in the Star Memorial, or you can even make a purchase like we call 15 for 15.

So $15 a month for every month, $1 for every tiny home.

If everybody does that, that will help offset our cost for operations.

And you know, we just, we just think that this is something that can change lives and change lives of our veterans who deserve better.

We're not here to blame anybody.

We're not here to blame the system.

We're not here to blame our veterans.

So I think just as Americans, we need to do a little bit better and a little bit more on a personal side.

Absolutely.

You know, and being here in Arizona, you know, just come to think of it, you know, maybe we could talk.

I know a couple of people that know Alice Cooper.

Maybe we can get Alice Cooper to come out and do a concert or bring some well known celebrities in and we could take all the funds and put it towards a program like this.

And what a great, what a great way to be able to do it for the community to come together.

I would love that.

And that's kind of like, that's one of my visions, you know, is try to like, how can we get somebody who could at least be a spokesperson or do an event and raise a lot of money, you know, locally.

I don't know if you guys know Bret Michaels.

I remember them.

So Bret, Brett is actually from about 10 miles from here and very veteran oriented.

But if you guys have a connection, we need to get in front of Brett.

But I would love, if you have anybody else that would put a big program together and we would help out.

We have the Hershey stadium here that holds 25,000 people.

You know, I think Foreigner, or I'm not Foreigner, but some of the other guys were just here that are very, very big and old, you know, so we love it.

All right, we'll see what we could do.

And it will.

It'll be a work in progress.

Tom, thank you so much for being with us today.

And we don't want to hold you up, but we'll be in touch.

I appreciate that.

Take care.

All right, that was Tom Zimmerman.

And I want to thank all our listeners for listening to Tom and our show today, Erica and myself.

And I want to remind everybody that, you know, you are your source for cutting edge information when it comes to container homes, container pools, tiny homes.

And as a reminder, yes, the.

Our good friend Susan Frayer from the Shed Gal is over on the west side on Thomas Road just south on 99th Avenue.

And all the shed lots are sheds are over on her lot that you could possibly imagine every shape and size.

And our model container home and container pool will be coming probably in the next two weeks.

So I will keep you posted on that.

Hang tight.

We'll be right back.

You're listening to Boxcar Universe.

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Hi, I'm John Wisebarth, co host of FYI Network's hit TV show Tiny House Nation.

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All right, we are back and you're listening to Boxcar Universe and we have got a great guest on the show coming up.

You know, for a lot of people over the weeks have questions about, you know, what does it take to get a tiny home or a container home or you know, what goes into it, how is it built?

How do you live in a container in 120 degree Arizona heat and all those kind of questions, you know, how even how far fetched and ridiculous they are.

But we have the man to answer all those questions regarding container homes, Chris Conover from Tiny Custom Houses with us.

And Chris, great to have you back on the show again.

Great to be with you guys again.

Thank you for inviting.

Tell our listeners who may not have heard you on our show before, have you tell us a little about, about your, about your company and what you're doing and how you got started?

Yeah.

So Tiny Custom House is just an idea that I had one day watching all the DIYers on YouTube turn these containers into really cool homes.

And I, I thought to myself, you know, I'm pretty handy, I think I can do that.

And so I started on my first container as a cabin for myself and my family.

We were going to put it up north somewhere in Flagstaff or Prescott, you know, just a place to get out of the heat.

And I was putting it on YouTube and social media and kind of sharing my experience converting one of these containers into a tiny house.

And I have a construction background.

I'm a contractor by trade, so I have kind of all the skills and the know how to do it.

And you know, some people started reaching out, telling me how cool the container was that they, they would possibly like a container themselves.

And one person reached out and you know, people here, local probably heard of the Maricopa county home show.

They reached out in particular and they were doing a tiny home feature and they asked me to bring my container to the show.

And I wasn't really prepared to go to the show but, but you know, I wanted to maybe judge the market and see if there was an interest there.

And so I ended up taking it to the show.

We ended up winning best in show.

We sold, I think on that show, we sold 10 or 15 units at that show specifically.

And so we kind of went from 0 to 100 really quick with orders.

And we've been trying to fulfill those orders for the last, you know, we've been doing it now for two years.

And we've placed half a dozen containers in actual properties within, you know, Phoenix area as well as maybe some surrounding areas.

We have one up north of Payson in a town called Yonge, Arizona.

We have one up there.

And if you know anything about Young, and it's a very remote place, I often get asked, well, how do you deliver these containers and can you deliver to a remote location?

Well, young is a 20 mile dirt road.

It's a fire service road to get to the town.

And the container made it down that road and into its location just fine.

So if I can deliver there, I can deliver anywhere.

Okay.

Yeah, it's, it's been A fun experience.

Yeah, it, and it's a great story when you think about it because I bet you when you got all those sales at the, at the home show, it must have been, I know you were excited, that's for sure.

But it must have been something like, oh my God, what did I start?

You know.

Yep.

It's a little, that was a kind of a knee jerk reaction.

I, now I've got to go build all these containers for these people.

Right.

So we kind of strapped up our boots, we went to work.

We've been building like crazy ever since.

Oh, it's something that's really good.

And then just from the time that we met you last fall over at the home show in Scottsdale, you guys have actually grown a lot since then in, in an effort to, as we say, maybe maintain the, the influx of, of sales, leads and purchases so that you could fulfill them.

Yeah, yeah, we've grown quite a lot.

I mean we have over, I think we're right around $2 million in pre orders alone for these containers.

And not only have we had an increase in orders, but we also are developing a container community out in Mesa where we're going to have multiple units for rent or these will be long term rental units out in Mesa, Arizona.

Now that's pretty cool.

Now is, is that going to be near where you're located at your new address out in Mesa?

Correct.

Yeah.

So that address is our production yard out there off of McKellips.

That's where we have been building all the containers.

We had 10 containers on that lot at one time and we've kind of moved a lot of them off and we, we are now converting that, that production yard into a tiny home community where we'll probably have half a dozen units of tiny homes there as well as some other residential areas as well.

So that was good.

It'd be pretty much exciting because there's a lot of traffic being able to go by there.

So you should be able to get a lot of looks and a lot of interest over there.

And it's pretty easy for anyone to be able to get to anybody who knows the East Valley here in the Phoenix market.

And for those of you interested, you know, throughout the country and other parts of the state is going to be, you know, we're going to have, Chris has got connections so that this way you can get containers made of a high quality and like the one Chris does and they are just, I think they're just pretty amazing.

But you've got gone through a lot of different, you know, designs.

And when they're finished, they look just like, they look just like your home.

And I think that's what people, I tell people all the time that they, they, they said, well, what does it look like?

It's in a container.

Well, like I said, if you're in a container and if you didn't know you were in a container, the rooms look exactly like they would do in a regular stick build home, you know.

Yeah.

They're actually rather spacious.

Right.

They have nine foot ceilings in the containers and they have quartz countertops, full luxury plank vinyl flooring.

Right.

So like you mentioned, it is very traditional.

It feels like an apartment or a single one bed, one bathroom home.

Yeah, it is very luxurious and we do very traditional build processes with these containers.

They've all been structurally, electrical and plumbing designed and engineered so it can be placed anywhere in the country.

Yeah.

And that's the one thing that I always liked about the containers that you build, that they are very compact in areas like, for instance, like the kitchen, the cabinet area, you know, the appliances, and then also, you know, how you incorporate bathrooms and showers.

So I think that's.

Yeah, it looks, it looks, it looks pretty amazing when you go out there and you know, just one of these days, you know, Mel, we should do a.

Mel and Steve on the street.

We should get someone who, who is interested in a home.

Let's blindfold them, bring them to a container home over at Chris's, take the blindfold off and see if they could tell if they're in a container.

What do you think?

Okay, why not?

I mean, you know, hey, we might have some fun.

Febreze also.

Just kidding, right?

Yeah.

Well, you know, hey, we just like to have some fun here too, besides all the great information that we share.

But it's really, really an up and coming thing.

And I know you're, you're.

And think about this too, right?

You're growing in these challenging times with the high inflation rate, high interest rates and people are still buying.

I mean, that's, you know, that's, that says a lot about what your company and what you're doing to be able to withstand some of those forces that are actually, we're trying, they're negative forces, but you know, trying to work against what you're trying to do.

But you seem to be doing a great job at moving forward.

Yeah, you know, I think that is probably what is impacting our business in a positive way.

Really.

I think people are looking for alternative options to housing because a lot of people have been priced out of the market or maybe they're waiting for the prices to come down for homes and are looking for an interim possibility.

And so we actually have.

I think that's probably helped our model.

It seems like there is a lot of buzz out there around containers and maybe this kind of, you know, kind of like nomadic lifestyle too, right?

With traveling and not being, you know, so tied down to a single location.

These containers, you know, you know, as soon as we kind of get everything moving further, we would like to start to kind of build outside of Arizona and have different container community communities and different vacation destinations or, you know, desirable areas across the country so people can, you know, lease different containers in different areas that are advantageous to their lifestyle at the moment.

And that's.

And that's important and that would be something that's really good.

But I think, you know, Chris, I think we're going to get there eventually.

It's just going to take a little bit of time.

Like any good new trends, the word spreads and when it spreads, it's going to become more mainstream than it already is.

Which I think, you know, if we go back several years, you know, five, 10 years, you know, there wasn't a whole lot of information out there regarding container rooms.

I know with the city of Phoenix, you know, when you try bringing a container home plans to them, they're looking at it like, you know, they have nothing, nothing to refer it against because their whole, all their protocols and guidelines haven't been brought up to this new way of building.

So they're gauging all these plans under old guidelines.

So I mean, I wouldn't even want to begin to think about how many plans were refused because not saying that they were, their plans were incorrect in the way they were structured.

They just wasn't what the planners were used to approving.

And I think that led to a lot of frustrations.

I know with a lot of builders as well as a lot of architects.

But I think we've come a long way in that area.

Yeah, we have.

And they are becoming more mainstream.

And I like to think of containers as an alternative building material and that we can, we can put multiple together to create larger homes.

We can do our single unit homes for easy transferability and quick on site, you know, up, up and running operations.

We even have some going out in California.

In California, as you know, has become very friendly to multi generational type housing ideas.

Tiny houses, containers even where they had kind of taken a stance on containers previously, they've now become very open to these types of ideas because there's such a need out there.

So we have a few containers even going out in different areas of LA and Southern California for container homes.

So it's pretty, pretty awesome to see the trend in a positive way where people are accepting the containers more and more often.

That's really good news.

People are and municipalities are moving in that direction.

All right, we're going to take a short break and when we come back on the other side, Chris Conover from Tiny Custom House.

We're going to be going through and asking him some FAQ questions.

And Allison who's here in the studio, I know she has a few questions because she is interested in tiny homes and we got some great FAQs to talk to you about.

So stay tuned.

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All right, we are back and you're listening to Boxcar Universe and we are talking with Chris Conover from Tiny Custom House and we're talking about container homes and what it takes to put a container on your property and a little bit about the things that go into a container.

You know, the same things that go into a stick built house.

But they're significant differences.

But you know, some of the houses that we've seen that containers that Chris has actually built, he makes it all come out just right.

And you would never, never know that you were in a tiny home.

But Allison, who's here with us has some questions about container houses.

And Allison, let's talk to Chris and see what he can answer for you.

Okay?

Yeah.

So I have a question and I'm wondering how does somebody prep their space before they're going to drop a container home on their land.

Yeah, so that's another reason we use a container itself is because the side prep is fairly easy.

It doesn't require a lot of, you know, you don't need a structural foundation for these containers.

So generally what we advise is that you, you pour a foundation or not a foundation, but a 4 inch slab, 4 inch thick slab for the container to sit on.

Kind of like when you would maybe install a hot tub at your property.

Right.

You would need to pull utilities and services to the hot tub or the slab for the hot tub.

Does it go on top of usually have permits required to pull those utilities and those services to that location and then you just put the unit right on top of that slab.

So generally our site prep is about three weeks.

That's one of the benefits of a container.

Then doing a stick build.

House is a stick build.

We're going to be on your property for months at a time.

Six, six months to a year.

Right.

Building a container we can build in six weeks, the interior and then we can place it on your property in three weeks.

Okay, that's pretty cool.

And is that something that you guys do yourself or is that something that you guys can do where you guys come out and you guys prep the land, or is that something that is up to the landowners?

Yeah, good question.

No, great question.

So I am a contractor by trade, so I can absolutely come and do the site prep for our buyers.

Thus far, we've done all the site prep for all of our customers.

It's an additional fee to the price point of the container itself.

Outside of Arizona, I would be able to help guide and direct people of how to do it.

But I don't have any licensing outside of Arizona, so that would be up to our customers that are outside of Arizona to do the site prep.

They don't always have the forest lab.

You know, they could kind of level it out, put some AB down or something like that to keep it more mobile.

Right.

But yeah, outside of Arizona we, we would be more of a, you know, a consultant.

We wouldn't be able to do that, that work for our customers.

Chris, I have a question for you.

Give us an idea of the cost of the shipping containers.

And with that being said, do you have access to financing so people are not coming out of pocket completely for these containers?

Yeah, great question.

So we have a couple different tiers when it comes to containers.

That the model that we've taken to the home show recently, that comes with all luxury finishes and appliances and has a large nine foot bifolding doors.

You can kind of do an inside outside type living space with the containers that container comes ready to live in with your appliances, your finishes, everything in that container drop and ready to go.

That one is $95,000 ready to go.

And that's 320 square feet.

Right.

And so you get a livable apartment at 320 square feet and $95,000.

We do have some better, you know, a little bit lower cost models that don't include maybe some of the luxury finishes.

Those start right at 75,000.

And then we do have a complete off grid package where all of your solar panels, your batteries, your inverters, we even have an agreement with Starlink to provide off grid WI fi that starts at 115,000 for those off grid units.

So all in all, you're going to be looking about 200 to $225 a square foot on these container units.

That's amazing.

Yeah, I mean that's that and that pricing is not, not bad, especially when you think about what you're getting.

And that's a 40 foot container, basically a one bedroom.

Right Chris?

Yeah.

Okay, so I mean, I mean and the spacing, like you said earlier, there's a lot of space inside those and with those nine foot, we'll call it nine foot bifolds, they look, yeah, they open up and you know, very easily once the container is placed.

You could put, you know, a shade structure in front of that with another more or less like a patio, concrete floor or tile or even pavers to be able to have an additional shade structure out there.

So your space just naturally seems to increase when you do that.

And it's great way to let the outside in and the inside out.

So it's something really, really nice that people should consider.

But yes, go ahead.

It is really nice because it takes your livable space from 320 inside the container to living more like 500 square feet with those BI folding doors.

And we've got a couple containers on Airbnb.

And that's the number one comment we get from our guests is that they love the bi folding doors and be able to have the entryway right there into the kitchen and be able to have dinner and things like that outside and inside the container.

Yeah, and again, that's just, it's a great, great way to be able to basically, you know, have that huge entryway and especially it's off the kitchen.

So the ones that I saw in the models that you had out in the production yard, they were right off the kitchen area.

So it's great if you're entertaining and you bring, and you have that additional patio square footage outside.

So it's great.

It's easy to bring all the food and stuff outside to your guests and they can enjoy, you know, the area that you've placed the container in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

You know, one of the other things that people ask for as well, you know, is it safe to live in a shipping container?

Yeah, it is very safe to live in a shipping container.

The way that we actually prep the containers is there is no vapor or water barrier between you and the container.

Right.

So we use an inch and a half of closed cell industrial spray foam around every piece of that container.

And so that, you know, there's no vapors, there's no toxins, there's nothing coming from the container through to your living space.

And so it is very safe to be inside the container.

We also, one thing that we do to mitigate any kind of concern with maybe chemicals or anything like that is we use one way containers that have only been used one time have never had any sort of hazardous material inside the containers.

And so they are very safe and clean containers.

Some of them I don't even like covering up because they're so clean.

But, you know, kind of we've talked maybe in the past about doing an industrial look where we insulated it from the outside and keeping the walls kind of bare, but we haven't done any of those yet.

We've stuck with the traditional look of the, you know, the drywall and everything on the interior.

So, yeah, the answer to that question is very safe.

There's no, there's no transfer of chemicals or vapor between the existing container and your living space.

That's.

Yeah.

And that's important for people especially because, you know, there are people out there who are.

I mean, I know our resident home inspector, Dan Hayden actually had gone out and checking on healthy homes where people actually can be allergic to certain materials that are used within the home.

So making sure that those are not, you know, in a container home are so very important.

Yeah, definitely, definitely.

So one last question.

If you had to choose a shipping container house instead of a traditional house, why.

Why would you choose that?

So I really like, obviously I'm biased.

I love the container house idea and I love the idea of maybe even adding multiple together a single unit container home wouldn't work for me because my wife, she's not looking to go tiny as much as I am.

We have A two and a half year old and she doesn't, she doesn't think it's big enough.

However, I would love to live in a container home with our family, but she doesn't.

She's not quite there yet.

But why I would choose a container is the structural integrity of a container is very good.

And you ask any engineer, architect, he'll tell you how well designed these containers are.

They're stacked on these shipping yards, you know, 7, 8, 9, 10 high, and they're fully loaded with product material.

Containers are loaded up to as much as £40,000.

10 of those high and the one container is on the bottom.

Right.

So structurally, these are incredibly strong resources and very strong to use in a building.

You know, methodology and way.

And, you know, if you're a prepper or you want something that's a little harder to get into, you know, just makes sense to have steel.

Right.

A steel container is a lot harder to, you know, infiltrate than a traditional home.

The other great thing about containers is if you're in a remote area and there's any kind of pest problems, right.

These are completely pest and rodent free.

Right.

Your pests and rodents can't chew through the wood and the material, they can't chew through the metal.

And so you won't have any pest problems if you put it up, you know, somewhere in the woods where a lot of people may have problems with rodents and whatnot.

Containers won't have those types of issues because of the steel.

That's right.

You can't chew through steel.

Yeah, that is one definitely good aspect of, you know, having a container home.

And I think one of the things, also an advantage of if you're into, you know, different types of architectural design, that you could make some amazing combinations with containers to be able to give your.

To be.

Actually be a.

A piece in the.

If you're not off grid and you're in a neighborhood to be able to get some.

A lot of people interested in talking about your container home because the styling and the architecture, it is so very different.

But like I said, it's not for everybody.

I think doing it that way is an exceptional type of architecture that people can.

Your house becomes almost like a story that people talk about, well, what was it before?

What did it look like?

And then watching it being created and put on your property, that's just another whole story in itself.

It's.

It leads, it's a different type of construction, which I understand where you're coming from, Chris.

You know, wanting to do the container but you know, hey, you know, give your wife some time.

Keep building, keep building them.

You know, one of these days she may just say, yeah, let's go ahead.

Well, you will put about six of them together.

What do you think?

Maybe put six together.

That might be okay.

Yeah, you could make a really modern looking home out of some of the containers.

A lot of people are more into the modern square metal, sleek look, kind of moving away from more of the Tuscany style.

So, yeah, I think she'd like it.

Yeah.

All right, well, it sounds good.

Chris, tell our listeners how they can contact you.

Yeah, so, you know, our, our best way to probably see some of our current projects is on social media.

Tiny Custom House, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram.

You can also go to our website@tinycustomhouse.com There's a little bit of details there on, on our containers and what we do, what we do for people is we have a complete interior design team named Dwellify.

Right.

And what we have, our listeners and people who are interested in our, in our products is they put down a down payment to design their own container.

And also with that down payment, we send them out a material box with all the samples of their materials to make sure they, they like it.

And as soon as they like their container, then we go, we go to work and we start building it for them.

So again, the price points are, right, ranging around 75 to $115,000 for a container.

And you can go and design your own.

On our website, all you got to do is put down the 500, you can design your own container and we can get to work on building one for you.

Yeah, and that's really great.

It gets the potential new homeowner involved in all the things that you're going to be putting into it.

So that, this way there's no question about, well, did I really want this or do I want this particular product?

You send all that out.

So I think that's a great way in the consultation process to make sure that when you start building, you don't have to do it over.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Chris, thanks again for being on the show today.

We look forward to working with you in the future and having you back on the show.

And like I said, we've got some, we've got some interested parties looking for some container homes.

So we'll be able to touch base with you on that.

But if you are interested in getting a container home or a container pool, make sure you email us@boxcar livingmail.com stevexcaruniverse.com Reminder, Boxcar Universe could be heard on any podcast player.

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