All social movements start by moving away from something. But while the 3-Word Rebellion begins with what you are against, it quickly becomes about what you want to create!

Created by my guest, Dr. Michelle Mazur, the 3-Word Rebellion helps business owners to create a positive 3-word message that grows their business into a movement.

Once you have your 3-word rebellion, what do you do with it?

Join us as we discuss

• What it feels like to walk away from a well-defined path to build something of your own
• How a 3rd grade student council election changed the course of history
• How imposter syndrome can loom large when you are getting started and how to keep going
• The importance of citing your sources and letting go of getting credit

MEET MICHELLE:

Michelle Mazur works with brilliant business owners who are shaking things up...but having trouble talking about it. She combines the tools of successful social movements with the qualitative research skills she earned in her communications PhD to help them craft their powerful, captivating message. The author of 3 books (including the newly-released 3 Word Rebellion) and featured in Fast Company, Entrepreneur and Inc., she knows that speaking about what you do in a clear and captivating way is the key to reaching the people you could help the most.

CONNECT WITH MICHELLE:

drmichellemazur.com/me

www.3wordrebellion.com

www.3WRbook.com

For more information about the Unleashing YOUR Great Work podcast or to learn more about Dr. Amanda Crowell, check out my website: amandacrowell.com

Welcome to unleashing your great work, a podcast about

doing the work that matters the most to you. I'm your host, Dr.

Amanda Kroll, a cognitive psychologist, speaker, coach,

and the creator of the aligned time journals. Every week on

this podcast, we are asking the big questions. What is great

work? And why does it matter so much to us? What does it take to

do more of your great work without sacrificing everything

else? And how does the world change when more people are

doing more of the work that matters the most to them?

Whether you're great work is building your own small

business, or managing a remote team at a multinational company.

You'll find insight and answers here. Welcome, everybody to

unleashing your great work. I am your host, Dr. Amanda Kroll and

today I could not be happier to be joined by Dr. Michelle maser.

She works with brilliant business owners who are shaking

things up but having trouble talking about it. She's the

author of three books, including a newly released version of her

three word rebellion, which I've read, and it's very good. And

she knows that speaking about what you do in a clear and

captivating way is the key to reaching the people that you

could help the most. Welcome to the podcast. Michelle.

Thank you, Amanda. I am thrilled to be here.

Yay. We're equally thrilled. Yeah. So I have a question for

you. It's the question I start every podcast with and that

question is, tell us a little bit about your great work.

My great work is all around communication and messaging, I

created a framework called the three word rebellion. And what

the purpose of that is to encapsulate the change that you

want your business to create in just three words. So think about

start with why the five second rule, the four hour workweek,

these are all phrases that we've heard before, they are phrases

that have made us curious to want to know more. And I created

a process that I can guide people through or they can read

a book and figure out what their own three word rebellion is that

message they want to be known for. And I've, I mean, I've been

passionate about communication since I was about 15 years old,

I think I started down this path. But I really believe that

if we can powerfully communicate the value our business creates,

other people will get it, they'll get on board with us,

they'll become the messengers of our message. And ultimately, our

business can be a bit of a movement maker, and out there

doing good in the world and reaching the people we most need

to reach with our message. So my great work is all around the

three word rebellion and communication. It is what I love

and what I'm most passionate about in the world. Love it.

So your three word rebellion is three word rebellion.

Yes, I'm super moto like that.

Yeah. So there's a really interesting word in that, which

I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about, like,

what is it about a rebellion? Because I've seen you I think

your podcast is called the rebel podcast.

Rebel uprising. Yeah.

Rebel. Rebel uprising. Yeah. So there's something about

rebellion that seems to speak to you. What is that? Yeah,

it's really this idea of taking a stand for something. There's

so much like, Oh, me too, marketing, where everything

sounds the same. That all of a sudden, when there is a fresh

voice on the scene, you're like, oh, this person is interesting.

They're saying something different. And I never really

felt like I fit in, in the like, on line, business space, much

like I didn't fit in, in high school. Like I was the theater

kid, the Speech and Debate kid. And in the online business

world, I feel like there are these like popular people who

are really, really well known. And then there's the rest of us

kind of quietly doing our great work in the world and not

getting attention. So for me, when you kind of stage a

rebellion, you're saying like, Hey, I see things and I don't

like them. I think we could do things better. We could do

things differently. We could be doing more good in the world.

And so staging that kind of rebellion is, you know, a

necessary step for people who don't feel They fit in to gather

their right people around them. And I know even for me, like

when I first started this business, I started as a public

speaking coach before I was going into brand messaging and

positioning and all of that. And my first client came because I

wrote this really, really ranty blog post about how not to be a

motivational speaker. And it was in response to this woman that I

saw who like, took the stage. And she asked us all to stand

up. And we did, she asked us to clap. And we did. And then she

said, You have given me a standing ovation. And now I must

earn it. Yeah. And boy, she did not earn it. And that bond, this

ranty blog post about how to do better with speaking. And it was

the type of posts that you're scared to share. Because it's

like, oh, this is super edgy. But people ended up responding

to it. And then I got this email with the blog post in the title.

And I was like, crap. I'm in for it. And I opened it up, and he's

like, Hey, I love this. I'm looking for a new public

speaking coach, I have a big event coming up. Would you like

to talk about it? And I didn't have a business or anything

then. But yeah, like, no, no packages, no fees, nothing.

You're not even you're like, Yes, I can.

I was like, yes, yes, let's talk about it. And he ended up, he

was speaking in front of Barbara Bush's Points of Light

Foundation in front of the firmer former First Lady and all

of these famous people. And we work together on that speech,

and it was fantastic. So that's that rant, that rebellion really

started my business.

Mm hmm. So I'm, I'm noticing that and I'm just noticing that

it's a sort of a positioning against something. Is that

purposeful? Or can your rebellion be for something? Or

is it really a strong stance that you need to be against

something

you need? Both? So I have based this messaging theory, or this

messaging framework out of social movement theory, so all

social movements are moving away from something and when I work

with people, we we name their villain, so my villain now is

manipulative marketing, very much against all the bro

marketing, the scarcity. Yeah, all of like the swipe files that

we see that are loaded with NLP and other stuff that people

don't quite understand. And so that's what I'm against. But I'm

for the three word rebellion, creating this message that

matters. And that encapsulates the change you want to create.

So the three word rebellion itself typically ends up being a

positive message for people. Like, for example, one of my

clients, hers is profit without worry. And she creates marketing

funnels for people. And, like, funnel is such a terrible world

word that people don't like. But her funnels were so radically

different that calling it that was a disservice. So we came up

with this idea of like, okay, profit without worry. And her

clients, right, clients were like, Ooh, yeah, I want I want

that. How do I like how do I do that? Yeah. And that's really

the power of that three word rebellion. So you have the,

you're against something, you have a villain, you have a foil,

but also you're for something and creating a change in the

world.

So once you have your three word, rebellion, what do you do

with it?

So once you have your three word rebellion, you get to create

more messaging. Because it's like those three words are there

to create intrigue, to create curiosity to grab people's

attention and make them think like, okay, she's doing

something a little bit different in the world. But what happens

next, is that, great, you've got their attention. Now, how do you

get their buy in? Well, you need more messaging that really

builds a persuasive argument for your work, and reaches people

along the customer awareness spectrum. Right. So this is

Eugene Schwartz breakthrough advertising. He talks about

like, the unaware audience, the people who don't know you yet,

how are we reaching them? What conversations are we having? And

then how do we get them to have like a belief shift or realize

what the problem is they're having? What are those

conversations that structure this argument and move people

along to being bought into what you're doing and being ready to

work with you? We're not selling we're not convincing. We're

helping people get ready to work with you. And then once we have

that structure, You're down, which ends up being like a

pretty large piece of messaging that you just use throughout

your marketing and your copy, then we can fill in like the

stories, you want to be telling your stories, your clients

stories, and how that all relates to your work. So once

you have all of that, then it's like, okay, you have this

comprehensive messaging strategy that you can use in your

marketing and your copy into your sales. And then it's really

about applying it to your marketing strategy, because I

really believe that any marketing strategy can work if

your message is dialed in, it actually resonates with your

audience.

Interesting. So Michelle, who are you that you would be doing

this work? Like who like, tell us how you got here?

Yeah, so I have a PhD in communication I was in academia

for ever was an assistant professor at the University of

Hawaii teaching persuasion in our University of

Hawaii. Yeah. Was it awesome? or No?

It was not my side. I mean, Hawaii is a beautiful place.

Yeah, it's gorgeous. It's very hard to live there. Because I

mean, you are in the most, you're on the most isolated

island chain in the entire world. Right? Yeah, five hours

to get to California, seven hours to get to Japan. So there

is, yeah, so you're on your own. And the community tends to be

very insular, like, it's hard to break in, it's hard to meet

friends, because they see that how lay, which means white

person in Hawaiian, okay. Like, they'll just leave in a few

months. So it's not worth to get invested. So it was this very,

like, isolating time, and I was single at the time as well. And

it just, when I was at the point where I had to go up for tenure,

it was this decision of like, go up for tenure and commit to

living here. Or leave and try to find build a fulfilling life

somewhere else. And so I chose to leave.

Yeah. And was it just Hawaii? Or was it something about academia?

And it didn't really suit you, too?

Oh, yeah, academia was I love teaching. I love doing research.

I do not love the politics, like I am not a very, I mean, I can

be political, however, like, you can always read exactly what I'm

thinking and what I'm feeling on my face. So like having that

poker face that you would need to go through faculty meetings

was not my jam.

Yeah, I can, I can see that. And yet, you mentioned that you do

like politics. So that's something that you mentioned in

your book, actually, is that you sort of started out as somewhat

political, but your political dreams were crushed in the third

grade. Third grade, that totally changed the course of your life.

Yeah. So I was like, I don't know. Like, I was like four or

five years old and already into politics like Jimmy Carter,

Ronald Reagan, like I knew that this presidential election was

happening. I knew I was a Democrat, like, I don't know.

How do you know you're a Democrat, but apparently I was

and I am. And I just really thought that, oh, politicians

are here to help people. And that was so inspiring to my five

year old mind. So I thought, Okay, this is my life path. This

is what I'm going to do. And then I ran for student council

and I realized that a it was really hard and be hard to talk

to people, which has a little bit introverted and shy at that

point in my life. And I did not when I got crushed

Oh, so brutal. Counsel,

I know so that dashed my dreams and politics.

And yet you persevered and you got a PhD in communications

became a professor. And then the politics again cast your dreams

or changed them, I guess. Yeah. So what what? Tell us about that

moment when you're like sitting in Hawaii feeling isolated and

out of place, and yet, I mean, listen, I have a PhD in

cognitive psychology and I was 100% on the researcher track

period, full stop. No, no train to burn up no sleep till

Brooklyn. I was on my way. And then I remember the day that I

was like, what if I don't do that? But I have to do that. But

what if I don't do that? That little voice right that's

whispering in the back of your mind. What if you don't do that

Amanda? What if that's not what's right for you? And

thinking like That was a very hard moment. Maybe it wasn't for

you. But it was for me like, What was that moment like for

you? Well, it

was interesting because I had several moments going on, like

my mom had passed away. Four or five months prior to this

decision, I had a boyfriend in England and I had just when my

mom passed away, I was actually living in England and teaching

there, which was an amazing experience to live in London.

And so I had broken up with my boyfriend in London, and was

like, No, I'm done with this, like, I'm just done. And it was,

it was like this point in time of my life. I'm like, Just gonna

burn it all down. Like, I am not happy doing this. There are

parts that I like, uh, but it's not enough to keep me here.

Like, I have nothing for me here. And especially, you know,

after losing my mom losing a boyfriend, it was just like,

well, what's one more loss? we'll just, we'll just move

through all of this grief together at once. And it just

made a lot of sense that I was going to leave and do something

different.

And where did you go and what did you do? So

I am in Seattle, that's where I moved to. And at first, I still

was doing some adjunct teaching at the University of Washington.

And I also took a research job at Harborview Medical Center in

the psychiatry department, which was

Wow, psychiatrists.

Yeah, yeah, they're an odd group.

It was it was a very interesting job. I wasn't working with

patients, I was really just doing some like data analysis

for them. And then I moved into market research of the Ford

consumer product goods. companies like General Mills,

Kerrygold. Butter, I, then I was doing some then after that I was

doing work with like Microsoft. So I've Yeah, so it was really

into market research and doing all of that because I was like,

Well, I'm a researcher. So my skills translate, except I'm

also psychologically unemployable. I'm a terrible

employee.

Wait, I'm sorry. Psychologically unemployable. Tell us more about

that. What does that mean? Yeah,

it means I really don't like people telling me what to do.

And the word

Siri? Thank you, Siri. But I want Michelle to answer that

question. Is Beautiful. So funny.

Yeah, I'm not great at taking orders. I always had a lot of

questions. So people be like, Well, I think we, you know,

like, Michelle, you need to do this. And I'm like, But why and

why are we doing it that way? And what if we did it this way.

And so I was always this questioner at work, which made

me a huge pain in the butt, I'm sure to rebel. Yeah. And so at

the same time, I was doing the job, I was blogging on the side,

just kind of because I had all of this information about

communication in my head, and I really wasn't doing anything

with it. And a friend of mine was just like, you should blog,

you should do something, get all the goodness out of your brain

into the world. So that's what I did. And then eventually, I was

at a job and my boss who I loved, he was a great boss. He's

like, I'm being promoted. And he's telling me all about this

excitedly and like my future at the company. And like, in my

head, I'm like, spinning out because I'm like, I don't want

to stay here. I don't want I mean, I was planning on quitting

in the next six months. I was not planning on telling my

employer that soon, but he's honey here. So it was like he

was excitedly talking about all this great stuff. And then he's

like, so what do you think?

I think I'm gonna quit. Oh, wow. Yeah,

I'm just like, not today.

Wow, what an internal compass you have. Mm hmm. It's like,

it's like a dictator in there. It's like, No, you will ask this

question. You will quit this job. So tell me like,

I just I just couldn't lie to him, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, but just, it just didn't seem right. To like, pretend

that oh, yeah, that sounds great. And I'm totally gonna

stay when I'm like, No, I want the hell out.

Yeah. Right. So you have a very strong regulator in your

psychology. And, and a really strong sense of

conscientiousness, it seems like that seems to be something that

runs through both like your lived experiences as you're

telling them to us here. As well as through your model of your

three word rebellion writes like a lot about who are you really

what do you really think stop with all the nonsense and trying

to like force or fake or trick people in to working with you,

and instead just say who you are, sound,

yeah, who you are what you believe, get in touch with how

they're feeling empathize with people like all of this, like

I've always been really aware. And I think because of training

and communication of how my words impact other people. And a

lot of what we see in business is the people completely unaware

of what they're saying what they're promising, and how that

impacts other people how it's received. And I am always very

tuned in to that. And I think I mean, I think that's what makes

me really great. And messaging and communication. Because when

I work with a client, I'm always filtering it through this lens

of like, how would this person feel if they hear this? Is it

going to be like, Oh, push them away? Or is it going to make

them come in closer? And I always want to make the right

people come in closer?

Yeah. Well, it's interesting, because I think you're right,

that the vast majority of people are totally unaware of the

impact that they're having on other people and the role that

they're, you know, the things that we remember that we carry

forward in our lives that we help to define ourselves are

often just one off comments from other people. And that person

had no reason any reality or any sense that what they were saying

was gonna carry that person forward for years, or haunt them

for years. Yes. And I think what in the interesting thing is that

you've got like that juxtaposition. On the one hand,

there's all these people sort of blindly unaware of the way words

impact them and the way their words are impacting others. And

then what you pointed to the people who are acutely aware of

exactly which words to say, to get people starting to feel like

their scarcity and urgency, and I'm going to FOMO, I'm going to

miss out on this. And it's, it's gotta be hard to be the one

saying, walk away. First of all, it's actually not that easy to

manipulate people into doing what you persuasively want them

to that's why like, 1% of people are successful at moving big

numbers through sales funnels, and really making millions of

dollars. And everybody else spends three to $5,000 trying to

do it exactly that way. And then they fail. Right? But

nonetheless, your voice it really isn't rebellion, right

like that. You should just stop try to opt out of that game. So

tell me what struggles have you had sort of bringing this

message to the world this this great work of yours? Oh, so

many struggle. I mean, it was interesting. So when I first

came up with the three word rebellion, it was through a

conversation with a book coach named Jenny Nash. And she was

like, Oh, you're really onto something with this. You can

call it something like the three words speech and I'm like, Cool.

I don't want to do public speaking coaching anymore. Like,

I like the three words. And then my brand was already

communication rebels. I was like, Okay, it's the three word

rebellion.

And then it felt so bad. Like, it's like, oh,

this is a message that it's choosing me like and who am I to

deliver this? And we, I totally had this imaginary Nemesis with

Donald Miller, the building the story brand guy happening,

because Okay, is the guy that is kind of known for messaging.

Like, if you go into a Facebook group, and you ask, like, I need

help with messaging, someone I can guarantee will recommend his

book because it is everywhere. And so he became this like,

imaginary nemesis in my head, like, who am I to think that I'm

an expert that I am the best in the world at doing this kind of

messaging when Donald Miller exists. And, look, he has this

New York Times best selling book, and oh, and, and everybody

recommends him and he's on all of these podcasts and blah,

blah, blah, blah, blah. And it really held me back from putting

my work out there. Like to a point where, like, I had

multiple coaching sessions with my coach talking about this man

who doesn't even know me. Yeah. Yeah. He doesn't know me, but in

my head, it's like, I couldn't do the work that I meant to do

because he exists and he has this book, and what I mean,

looking back, I'm like, Okay, this was so ridiculous, because

he and I are so different. We served kind of different

clientele, even though he's just recommended to everyone like I'm

always serving like the rebels, the misfits, the people who are

like swimming in the blue ocean with their new idea, or they're

doing something in the intangible results realm, and

the story brand never was designed for them either. was

never designed For My People, and it took me a while to kind

of untangle that.

How did you untangle it? What did you need to realize? What

did you need to step into?

Oh my gosh, yeah, so multiple coaching sessions and really

monitoring what my thoughts were around him. Like, oh, because

the thought was, oh, yes, the New York Times best selling

books. So he's better at this than me. And my coach at one

point was like, is that true? Is that like, is that like a true

thought that he's better than you? Because he has this New

York Times bestselling book? Or has he just had a different

opportunity than you? And I'm like, oh, and honestly, like I

wrote a lot in my journal like, and sometimes it's just

repeating, like, I am the best in the world at creating three

word rebellions. Like and then, you know, like when you start

just kind of practicing a new thought, you start seeing proof

of it in the world. So all of a sudden, you're somebody shares

about the book and how finding their three word rebellion and

what that meant for their business. And I'm like, Oh,

interesting. I get feedback from a client. And they're like, I

just had the sales conversation. And it was incredible. I use my

three word rebellion. And they were super curious. And they

ended up signing up. So it's like, a way I'm seeing like all

this proof that I would have shut out before because I didn't

have the New York Times bestselling book. And it's, I

mean, it's funny, because I mean, it's a couple years

removed, but it feels so it feels so silly now, but I know,

I'm not the only one. Not at all who compares themselves. Someone

else in their industry?

Right? Well, and I actually don't know the story brand guy,

because I'm not in messaging. But it is. I'm assuming that

some of it is not really that you're comparing sometimes

people say don't compare your middle to someone else's end.

Yeah. And that there's a way that that could be interpreted

as somebody who's like, so expert, and so capable, but I

don't mean it that way. I mean, like, we have this way, we are

comparing, like, I'm writing a book, but my book is written

Thank the Lord. But you know, as I was writing the book, and I'm

reading my drafts, and I'm like, This is the worst thing I've

ever read. Right? Like, yeah, that you've written a book,

you've written a few. So you're like, This is the worst. This is

not bad. This is the worst. It's really a roller coaster. Maybe

yours wasn't like that. But like that for me. But it's

interesting, like his book was out there. He had not really

like, it's not that he was so much more capable. But he was

more just like, all the collateral, all the

testimonials, all the word of man, like, had just built up and

accumulated for him hadn't accumulated for you yet.

Exactly. Exactly. And you know, he was first to market with a

messaging book. And I think that's always a big advantage.

And it Yeah, and it's like, oh, yeah, he's been at this a lot

longer than I have with his story brand framework. He'd

been, you know, doing workshops and groups and all that kind of

stuff for years before I came along and came up with my

framework. So yeah, you do you accumulate a lot, especially

when you're first. And you've, like, I love that idea. Like,

you've accumulated all of this momentum and this capital around

this message around this framework. And so when you have

a little upstart coming in, like you can't, you can't compete

against that. But then that person for me just kind of looms

larger than life.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I wonder, like, you sort of overcame that

you put your stuff out in the world, and you had the courage

to let it accumulate some and started to convince yourself,

and then you find yourself, maybe you maybe you have an

experiences, but I bet you have that. Now you're at your New

Edge. And now there's something new that you're going to feel

like an imposter about that you're going to be looking at

everybody who's further along with more accumulation than you.

What other things have you sort of, you know, come up against

that are like that, like new edges that sort of put you back

in that place?

Yeah, that's such a good, good question, as well. And so what

it's making me think of is my friend Maggie Patterson, and I

have a podcast called duped the dark side of online business

where we sit. It's really a consumer advocacy podcast where

we kind of break down what we see in them online marketing

plays from like, how things are priced to manipulative marketing

to messaging tropes, like courses, like all of it and talk

about like, how do you figure out if these things are actually

right for you? How do you make informed decisions, how do you

critically think through these decisions for your business? And

it's so interesting because Maggie and I both have this

experience a lot, where we do a lot of research and a lot of

original analysis for the podcast. And then we see some

other online business owner who just takes our work and shares

it as if they're, it's their own. And you and I are both

academics. So we're like, gonna cite sources man, always sources

like right brained and us. And it's always so hard to see it

because I like read something. And I'm like, Oh, I said that,

like, that's my thing. Yeah. And you're taking credit for it. And

that is it. Like, that can be an incredibly hard edge as well,

that just kind of like ticks you off. And you're like, I mean,

and this is a problem. I feel like universally in online

business. Like we actually did an episode about plagiarism

podcast, because it is so rampant. There's this idea of

just like robbing duplicate in the online world. But if you're

the person being robbed and duplicated, it's really hard to

see your work coming out of somebody else's mouth, and then

people responding to them, like, Oh, you're so smart, saying this

thing. And you're like, No, you're not.

I bet that gets more and more common, the bigger you get.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I, you know, I often talk about like, Simon

Sinek. And start with why, and how I see so many people talking

about start with why without even mentioning him. Yeah, I

mean, and it's cool. Because like, he's moved on from the

thing, right? Like he's doing a bigger, better things like he

has, like in his company, other people speak about it. So he's

totally like, let that message go and take him a life of its

own. And I was like, well, good on you. Oh, but for me, I'm

always like, Oh, this is really hard.

Well, Simon Sinek also has like a massively popular TED talk

called Start With Why so if you do write your Google search,

even a single Google search, you're going to come up with

Simon Sinek. It does happen. I think more pervasively, too.

Like I was just on a I don't know, mastermind or something

with Bob Berg. You know, the guy who wrote the Go Giver? Oh,

yeah, yeah. Yeah. So he was talking about the fact that

nobody ever remembers, like, so you're, you and Bob Berg are

sharing the same like Cliff of difficulty, that no one ever

remembers that it was his book, endless referrals that first

coined the know like, and trust all else being equal. People

work with you if they know like, and trust you. Oh, yeah. He was

just talking about how like, very few people really

acknowledge that that was his work. And yet it's pervasive.

It's everywhere. No hurt.

Oh, yeah. Like, I feel like when I was teaching persuasion, like

Robert Cialdini talked about that in his book and mentioned

Bob Berg, right. I guess. I have that book sitting on my desk. I

can probably go look it up afterwards. Yeah, let's

check the check the back notes and notes of it. Yeah. Yeah.

That's interesting.

Yeah. It's like, the message becomes part of the cultural

zeitgeist, and then people don't cite it anymore, because now it

feels like common knowledge.

Right. Right. Well, common knowledge. Is that right? Yes, I

agree with you that that's probably exactly what's

happening is they don't even know where they heard it. I

mean, think about like, I find this happens a lot, right? Like

after, what, nine and a half years of graduate school, like

between my masters and my PhD, actually is probably six years

but still right in my undergraduate four years. So 10

years, right of formal education in cognitive psychology. I know

things because I feel like I know them. I don't remember

which theory was the first one to really bring that piece up.

I'm sorry.

That's okay. So yeah, I guess it makes sense that people would

struggle with that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and yet, it's super

annoying.

It's really hard. And, you know, for us, it's like, the stuff

hasn't been around very long. So it's not like, you know, the,

you know, it was a book written 10 years ago, or we discussed

this. It's a podcast that came out last year, or we're doing

some of this original analysis.

Yeah. Well, originally Natalie a very different thing than a

phrase

too. So. Yeah, that's hard. Yeah, it's so that's kind of

like an edge that I bump up against and not letting like, I

feel like at this point in time, I'm just like, oh, just forget

it. I can't, I can't like, deal with these battles. I have my

own business to run. And if people actually did their

research they would find out who actually said this first, and

those are definitely my people. Right, right. And the interim,

it's like if we want to make change in the industry, then we

need people to be sharing the work. And sometimes you just

have to let go of getting credit for it.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's fast wise, that's wise and hard buys

and hard. Two things that commonly go together. Yeah,

yeah. So But dude, is not your only podcast. You have two

podcasts? Yes. Yeah. So

duped is our seasonal podcast that I co host with Maggie. And

then I have the rebel uprising podcast, which really focuses on

how do you cut through the noise and as

to Oh, your microphone? Maybe got something weird is happening

is echoey. Ah, hold on.

What is going on here?

Now you're back. Oh,

okay. So weird. I don't know what happened there. Sorry.

Okay. No,

it's fine. So you were you were saying about your podcast?

Oh, yeah. So the rebel uprising podcast is really dedicated to

cutting through all of the noise and Bs advice to really help you

build a business that stands out and gets noticed. So I talk a

lot about marketing. I talk a lot about persuasion, argument

building messaging, three word rebellion. Like this month,

we're talking. I love to challenge arguments, like

something that is widely accepted, like your business

needs to be on social media. And yes, the question doesn't

really, really need to be on social media to build the

business. Are there other options? And there's other

options?

Nice. Yeah. Well, I am 100% sure that somebody was just like,

Wait, what are the other options? So if somebody was

like, now dying to talk to you about that, or any of the other

things that you've said so far? How could someone find out about

you or spend time with you or learn more about your message?

Yeah,

so you can find out about me at Dr. Michelle maser.com. So

that's where my podcast lives. And the podcast is available

everywhere. You can also find the book, or get a taster of the

book at three word rebellion.com. And right now I

am in the middle or beginning to run a community project. And

it's very much related to what you and I were talking about

kind of that the struggles, the messy middle of success, and

that's called, it should have been me a project exploring the

messy middle of success. And I'm gathering 20 other business

owners to talk about, how do they deal with that comparison,

those, you know, ah, I really wish I would have gotten that

opportunity that my friend got, like, You're so happy for them.

And yet, you're like, oh, it should have been me. So how do

we navigate through those and get our important work out into

the world? And so that goes for the whole month of March? You

can join anytime. And you can do that at Dr. Michelle

naser.com/me. It's short on a little pond. Yep, just okay.

I'll definitely put it in the show notes also, so they don't

even have to remember, they can just click it.

Yeah. And so yeah, it'll be short, little actionable podcast

episodes that come out every day just to like, give you some

insights, inspiration and help you keep going to get your

workout into the world.

Wow. And are you running that inside? Like a Facebook group?

Or are you having a rebellion over on Discord?

And so I'm actually doing it on Instagram. So yeah, my, my, the

person who's helping me organize it. She's like, well, you could

do a Facebook community. And I'm like, I'd rather not. Do not

love Facebook. I

wish this was a video podcast, just so people can see the face

you just made when you were like,

I know. Like, yeah, like I struggle with Instagram, too,

but not as much as Facebook.

Yeah, I can totally see that. Wow. Well, I want to thank you

so much for coming on and sharing all this wisdom,

everything from the your story and your program and your book.

And just the way that you think about things so interesting and

rebellious. I want to thank you so much for being on the

podcast. I'm glad

to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah. My pleasure.

Thank you for joining me today on the unleashing your great

work podcast. If you liked what you heard, please subscribe and

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