Publishing for Professionals

Episode 34

Mastering Self-Publishing: Insights and Strategies for Authors with Brad Elder

Welcome to another enlightening episode of the Publishing for Professionals podcast! I'm thrilled to have Brad Elder, a licensed attorney turned self-published author, joining us today. Brad recently published his debut action thriller, "Recoil of Justice," and he's here to share his incredible journey from legal briefs to captivating narratives. If you're an aspiring author or a seasoned writer considering the self-publishing route, this episode is packed with valuable insights and strategies just for you.

In this episode, we delve into the intricacies of self-publishing versus traditional publishing. Brad and I discuss the pros and cons of both paths, focusing on the creative freedom and quicker timelines self-publishing offers. We also explore essential resources like the Editorial Freelancers Association (EFA) and Reedsy for finding top-notch editorial support and crafting a striking book cover. Discover how platforms like Draft2Digital can help you distribute your book widely, including libraries and niche bookstores.

Marketing your book effectively is crucial, and Brad shares his strategies for elevating your book's visibility. From leveraging Amazon ads to utilizing Goodreads and BookBub for promotions, we cover a range of tactics to boost your book's reach. Brad emphasizes the importance of building a robust email list to maintain a direct connection with your readers, safeguarding against changes in major platforms.

We also touch on the evolving role of AI in publishing. Brad provides insights into using AI as a tool for tasks like generating Amazon descriptions while ensuring creativity remains at the forefront of your writing process.

Join us as Brad Elder takes us through his writing journey, sharing personal experiences and practical advice for navigating the world of self-publishing. Whether you're curious about the authorial process or looking for ways to enhance your marketing game, this episode is a must-listen for authors at any stage of their writing journey. Don't forget to check out Brad's book, "Recoil of Justice," available on Amazon and his website, bradeldernovels.com. Connect with Brad on social media for updates and insights into his work. Enjoy the episode!

(00:20) Writing and Publishing as an Author

(08:08) Choosing Publishing and Distribution Platforms

(19:24) Marketing Strategies for Authors

(28:35) Utilizing AI as a Publishing Tool

(33:54) Author Promotion and Book Availability

Podcast Resources

Start on your author journey today by Booking a Discovery Call

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Get funded for your creative project using the book 9 Stumbling Blocks Preventing Creatives from Tapping into Grant Funds

Sign up today for our Virtual Writing Retreat!

Check out Brad and his new thriller book

Disclaimer: The information in this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The content shared by the host, guests, and any affiliates is not intended to substitute for professional legal or financial advice or any professional advice specific to your situation. Always seek the advice of a qualified professional with any questions you may have.

The opinions expressed on the show by the host or guests are those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views of Unicorn Publishing Company. Unicorn Publishing Company, the host, guests, and affiliates are not responsible or liable for any decisions made by listeners or actions taken hereto based on the information discussed in this podcast. By listening to this podcast, you acknowledge and agree to release Unicorn Publishing Company, the host, affiliates, and guests from any liability.

00:20 - Lynn (Host)

Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of the publishing for professionals podcast. Today I have a book blueprint episode and I'm super excited to have my guest on today. He's going to ask me some questions about writing and publishing, and he just recently published a book this past June. So but before we jump into that, I wanted to remind you that if you are on listening to publishing for professionals, make sure that you write and review the show and to make sure that you follow Publishing for Professionals on your favorite podcast player. Today, my guest is Brad Elder. He's a licensed attorney in the state of Texas and a champion captain of the Chili Dipper. He's an avid golfer and enjoys playing racquetball, hunting, fishing and a beer, but not at the same time. And so Brad's life goals are to be favored by God, be a great father, husband and to write a few interesting novels and to also be a very fine cart partner. So, without further ado, I'd like to introduce my guest today, brad Elder. Brad, welcome to the Publishing for Professionals show.

01:23 - Brad (Host)

Thank you, lynn, great to be here. Thanks for having me.

01:25 - Lynn (Host)

Yeah, I really appreciate you coming on today to ask some questions because I know a lot of people, especially new authors, have a lot of questions about writing and publishing and I know you have put out your I believe it's your first book this past June, correct?

01:38 - Brad (Host)

It is. Yes, it's called Recoil of Justice. It's a thriller, action, thriller novel. Put it out in June and it was quite the process being a self publisher, but there's, there's help out, there you can get.

01:48 - Lynn (Host)

Yeah, for sure. So tell us just a little bit before you come in with the questions. Tell us a little bit about your book for people that are maybe interested in in buying it, and we'll talk about where people can find that at the end of the show.

02:01 - Brad (Host)

Okay, yeah, that sounds great. Uh, I love reading, uh, the thriller novels. Um, writing one that was never on my bucket list. I don't have a creative writing degree. Um, I was a business major and went to, then went to law school. You know, I've I've written a lot of things, but never for anyone else's enjoyment, I would say so, um, but as I was reading a novel a couple of years ago, I just had this thought that I think I think I can do this and I'm going to try it, and but all the great protagonists and they're fantastic you always kind of meet them later, down their line, when their foundation has been laid already, and I wanted a character that you were introduced from the beginning of, when he started to gain these skills and knowledge of how to be a great action protagonist. Right, my, my protagonist, ryan Wolf, is a lawyer.

02:56

He's an everyday guy, but he's thrust into a situation which I always wonder when I read those great books what would I do if I was thrust into the situation that they're in and probably go screaming and running out of the room? That's what I would do, but I'm not going to write about that um. So I wanted him to be a regular guy. Um, caught in the middle of a lawsuit it starts out as a as a lawsuit, as lawsuit in the center of the book and he is a lawyer. But I wanted the readers to be able to grow with him as he grows throughout this process a tremendous amount of corporate espionage, theft and some really sinister plots behind this artificial intelligence software and tool which can be great in the right hands but could be devastating in the wrong hands. And the story goes through how he uncovers that with some help and what he does in the situation that he's found himself in. I don't want to spoil it you know to spoil anything but, uh, he grows a tremendous amount during the book very cool.

04:12 - Lynn (Host)

Yes, and with any good fiction book with a character you want, you want them to grow right, because it's not interesting if your character just stays the same after they're out. Yeah, right, awesome, that's right yes perfect, yeah, so tell me what's your first question about writing and publishing, and it can be about your future book or can be about the book that you've already published.

04:32 - Brad (Host)

So you know, when we, when I first started the process, you know you, you think do I want to find an agent and a publisher? Do I want to self-publish? Obviously we're. We're all probably going down the self-publishing route. I think there's a tremendous amount of positives, uh, about that. I think there's a tremendous amount of positives about, about traditional publishing as well. But, um, for me this felt like the the best avenue. But I had all these questions in the beginning because I'm not a right I was. I've never, had never, published anything before I. I don't have any publishing background. So my question was do you do it all your own? There is some help out there. Do you find one of the hybrid publishers, as I think they're kind of called, who say we can do it all, we're turnkey, we do it all for you, or do you strike out on your own completely?

05:29 - Lynn (Host)

Yeah. So there's a there's. Depending on what you want, you can choose, obviously, different avenues. I usually recommend for people to self-publish their first book, and the reason I usually recommend that is because, um, just just in the time you're going to spend in getting a, like a hybrid publisher, traditional publisher, it's going to take you three to five years to publish with a hybrid or traditional publisher, where it could take you a year and a half to publish by self-publishing.

05:52

So so the time constraint is much shorter if you're self-publishing, because you can get it done faster, you don't have to wait for very much proving you and doing the process and pitching all those letters to people and then getting the hundred knows's before you finally get somebody who's going to say yes. So that's one of the things I really recommend people go with self-publishing. And the other is that some people do want to have a traditional publisher or a hybrid publisher publish their book, and so if that's a route you do want to go, you can go that route. But there are a lot of things that you need to prepare yourself for, like writing up your proposal and like do you want to get an agent or not?

06:30

So there's a lot of considerations just within those decisions and you know, if you want to get an agent, that's another expense that you have to. You know, put you pay for and things like that. But the one thing I do always recommend to people, even if you're self-publishing, is always, always, always, pay a really good editor, a really good line editor, to edit your book and a developmental editor, because without professional editing, your book is not going to look professional, like it's just going to, you know, it's just going to look like someone wrote it who wasn't a writer. So even if you're not a writer, you can still write a really awesome published book, but you always want to get a professional editor to edit your work.

07:08 - Brad (Host)

Are you reading my notes? Because that was my next question. That's the most daunting part for me, was you know, I'm decent at grammar, I'm decent at spelling, but we're all going to make mistakes in the process. And where do you suggest going to find those good editors?

07:33 - Lynn (Host)

Yeah, so there's a couple places I always refer people to to find good editors. Now it doesn't mean that, like, every editor on this platform is going to be good, but many of the editors on these platforms are going to be good because they're professional, they're professionally trained. So one is Readsy, which is a big platform, and you'll get more people. You'll get people all the people on Readsy have worked for the top, the big five publishers, so in some aspect. And then the other one you can also find really good people that are professional. And then the other one you can also find really good people that are professional, professionally trained.

08:08

To edit your book is called EFA, so that's the Editorial Freelancers Association, and I'm a part of that membership, and so you can find a lot of different editors on EFA as well. So you just literally write in what you're looking for and then you put it posted on the job board and it will automatically email all the editors who do those types of work and then they, those people, can reply back to and tell you a little bit more about themselves and maybe some pricing or however you they're going to move forward. So those are the two platforms I recommend. I don't recommend people going on Upwork or Fiverr to find an editor, because every time I have, like, literallyedited a client's book, they usually have found somebody on Fiverr Upwork, because typically you don't know what you're getting.

08:50

On Fiverr Upwork there's no like, not referral but there's no vetting Right, exactly, whereas Readsy and EFA, they do vetting before they put you on the platform.

09:00 - Brad (Host)

You know, put you on the platform yeah, I was able to find a really good developmental editor on um, on readsy, um and good marketing, uh, professional, build your website. You can get a tremendous amount of great resources on readsy. I've not tried to efa, but but um, I've heard great things about them. So, again, thank you for this. So, all right, you've written your book, you've got it edited, you're ready to roll.

09:28

Another thing I would suggest and I'm not trying to steal your thunder here have a great cover, and you can find good cover cover artists on reads as well. You have to have a good cover. I judge a book by its cover. Most of you judge a book by its cover. So spend the money on editing, spend the money on it, on a good cover. But once you've got all that, you got a book that you feel really good about, ready to go as a self published, published author. Now you got to get it to the, to the marketplace, right? So the big question do you go wide or do you go Amazon exclusive? So what would be your suggestion there?

10:03 - Lynn (Host)

Right, yeah, that that that again depends on like what, what your purposes of your book, like what you want to do with it. So if you are, obviously you know we always want to sell more books, right? So I always say you definitely want it on amazon, because amazon, 80 of books are sold on amazon. But you can also distribute to libraries, to bookstores, to like airplane bookstore, like airplane airport bookstores, things like that. I just like literally flew on an airplane last week and I'm like why am I calling it airplane bookstore? Anyway, so you and you can do those things, but all those things have obviously they're time consuming. There's drawbacks, there's benefits to certain ones.

10:43

Local independent bookstores are another you know thing like as opposed to like a barnes, noble or a big box bookstore, and so all of the little bookstores have their own process for getting, you know, applying to put your book in that store. And I always recommend to people just reach out to the independent bookstore individually and say like, hey, this is my book. Um, like you know, I have a book I would like to put in your bookstore. Like, please let me know, like you know, instructions on how do I apply to put my book in your bookstore. Basically, um, and because every independent bookstore is different, just like every big box store is a little bit different, um, and one of the things that is a benefit, obviously you're getting wider distribution if you put it in independent bookstores or a bigger bookstore. However, some of the bookstores and these are more the bigger box stores like if you don't sell your book, like, say, say, they buy 12 books and they only sell three or four of them, well, you have the choice of either buying and shipping back those books or they destroy them. So there's not a lot of profit to be made in a big box store, unless you are someone who has, like a really large mailing list and or someone who's like a really big public figure where people are going to look at your book or look for your book in a big box store. So that's something to consider as well.

11:59

I would always recommend putting your book in a library, and a really great way to do that is through draft to digital. So they're a book distributor that they specialize in ebooks, and so you can distribute your ebook and and also your paperback and your audio book through draft to digital to libraries, and so that obviously gets your book into. You know you sell more copies of your book but it also gets it into more hands and gets more viewership because you're at a library. So that's another consideration to make. And those are pretty.

12:31

Those aren't really hard to get into library. It does take some time, but once the library has your book, if it gets checked out a lot, they're more likely to buy other copies of your book and they're relatively easy to deal with the library system because they have a very straightforward process of it, like submitting it to your library, um. And so that's another another thing you can choose. Another one is like specialty and gift stores. So if your book would like apply to a specialty or gift store, or someone who would shop there would like your book, um, especially if it's like a local book, like if you have a local niche book for your town and then you have local gift shops at your town, that's a really great, obviously, outlet, because people who are walking into specialty stores a lot of them are probably going to be tourists, or at least half of them, and so people would be looking for something like that in a specialty store.

13:19

So, depending on your market and who you want to sell to, you know, putting it on different platforms is always a good idea. Um, like, there's also like book hub and some other smaller like digital platforms you can put it on. However, I always recommend people, no matter what, always publish your book on amazon. You can, because you get the most exposure there. Also, you can also publish your book. Obviously, you can sell it on your own website, but you cannot sell it on your own website if you have an Amazon ISBN, because Amazon ISBNs, which are the free ISBNs, are proprietary to Amazon only.

13:53

So if you do use an Amazon ISBN which I do not recommend I always recommend people go on my identifiers and then purchase the 10-pack, because you need one ISBN for every format of your book. So you need one for the audiobook format of your book. So you need one for the audio book, one for your e-book, one for your print book and if you have a hardcover, you need one for your hardcover. So there's four right there and, especially if you plan on publishing more than one book, always buy the 10-pack, because it's much more economical to buy the 10-pack of ISBNs. But if you have an Amazon ISBN, you cannot buy your book and sell it yourself, like if you're a speaker. You can't buy your book and like 100 copies of your book and go to a speaking engagement and sell it. You can't sell your own book at any tables or anything like that. You can only sell it on Amazon. So that's why I recommend people to buy your own independent ISBN.

14:42 - Brad (Host)

Very good. Now I've had some. Going back to local bookstore angle, a lot of local bookstores are looking for. Obviously they want people in the door. So if you offer to do a book signing or something of that nature, a lot of times they'll buy a few of your books, put it on the shelf and that gets people in their store. It gets you access to readers who may not, who may not know you and it also gets traffic for the bookstore. So that's another really good reason for going to a local bookstore versus a big box bookstore which is quite difficult to get in to do a book signing with them. Absolutely yeah. So if you get your ISBN not from Amazon, can you still go exclusive on Amazon?

15:27 - Lynn (Host)

Yeah, and that's a great question. We're actually going to take a little break right here and I'm going to have you re-ask me that when we come back and then I'll answer that after the break. So let's take a little break right here, my friends, and then we will come back and follow up with Brad's question right after the break. Okay, we are back with Brad Elder. He's a published author and he has an awesome fiction thriller book out that we're going to talk about more at the end of this episode. But so, brad, re-ask your question again that you just asked right before the break, so people can get a refresher on what the question was.

16:22 - Brad (Host)

Absolutely. If you get your ISBN number not from Amazon, can you still go exclusive on Amazon?

16:32 - Lynn (Host)

can you still go exclusive on Amazon? Yes, so you can purchase your own ISBN and still go exclusive on Amazon. You just have to check off the box that says you want to go exclusive on Amazon. And so the benefit of going exclusive on Amazon is Amazon gives you a little bit more royalties if you go exclusive on Amazon. But if you do go exclusive on Amazon, then you cannot sell your book through other distributors, such as, like, like any of the box stores, any independent sellers Although I think I'm not sure on the independent seller ones, but I know you won't be able to. If you do go exclusive on Amazon, you won't be able to post it on your own website and sell it like individually, like that as well. So that's another thing to consider.

17:07 - Brad (Host)

Yeah, I think the only thing they've relaxed and that's recently is you can put them in libraries now if you're, you know, going on ku or amazon exclusive.

17:15

So okay, let's say, like me, I went through ingram sparks to do my uh print books. Um, I do want to go amazon, try out going ku now, candle, uh, candle unlimited Um, do I have to? Uh when I'm, when I'm signing up for KDP, do I need to read, download everything for them the um, the PDF version along with the cover and go through that process again along with the with the EPUB version? Do I have to redo everything to go directly with KDP?

17:56 - Lynn (Host)

Okay, so I think I know what you're asking. So so if you, when you sign up with IngramSpark and you, because IngramSpark also, you can publish through IngramSpark to Amazon.

18:07

So if you've already published through IngramSpark to Amazon, then no, you don't have to like re redo your Amazon account because it's already published on Amazon. You can actually still I'm pretty sure you could still order author copies from Amazon because your KDP account and your bookshelf, they'll be on there. That should there should be an option to also order them from Amazon if you wanted to do that as well. But yeah, you don't have to redo it because it's already set up on Amazon. As long as you set that up with your initial thing with IngramSpark, it should be there on Amazon. So you don't have to redo that that laying out and putting it up on Amazon again.

18:41 - Brad (Host)

Okay, very good. So obviously we got the book on Amazon now or wherever. Wherever we put it, how are people going to find out about this thing? Yeah, because there's 40 million books on Amazon or something of that nature. How do you go about getting the word out to the marketplace?

19:00 - Lynn (Host)

Yes, that's a great question.

19:01

So a lot of people obviously use their own email list, right, because that's the first thing people go to. And then some people post on social media, like whatever platform that they're on, like whether that's TikTok, instagram, youtube, linkedin, and so obviously having a really good book marketing campaign is essential to getting the word out about your book so people know it's out there and that they can buy it. Another thing you can do, obviously, is Amazon ads. Like I know, some people you know spend, like you know they have a set budget for their Amazon ads every month so that they can sell more books. Because when you have an Amazon ad Amazon, anytime someone's searching for your genre of book, it will put it at the top and it will say sponsored. So people know it's an ad but it gets more eyeballs on your book. So the more eyeballs on your book, obviously, the more chances you have of people buying it, because without an Amazon ad, you're just relying on whatever the algorithm is, and they're always going to put the sponsored books at the top.

19:55 - Brad (Host)

And no one knows what that algorithm is either.

19:58 - Lynn (Host)

Right, I don't think people at Amazon know what that algorithm is.

20:02 - Brad (Host)

I don't think so Maybe only the algorithm knows what the algorithm is Right.

20:08 - Lynn (Host)

I know I have not figured out any part of that algorithm at all.

20:14 - Brad (Host)

And I just published my audio book as well. I went through Audible ACX I believe it's called to do that. Are there any specific marketing campaigns for audio books that you would suggest that are different than your print or e-book?

20:30 - Lynn (Host)

Oh, that's a great question. I know there are certain platforms where people listen to audiobooks more, like I know, obviously on Audible and things like that, you can run ads for your book on Audible, I believe, and like other audiobook listening platforms. So that would be an option, obviously, running an ad. But as far as like general book, I would say I know there's like book was a Goodreads and BookBub and things like that. So there are some different platforms and if you, if you find out like what platforms? Like I know Goodreads is just general reading, but I know there are some platforms also that people are more listening to audiobooks on, and I know there's like Facebook groups of people who like to listen to audiobooks and things like that, but I know also, like they probably don't. I don't know if, like, some groups may or may not allow you to like put your book on there, except for my book Right.

21:22

Right, yeah, but another thing you can do too is I know, when I did my audiobook, acx offers you like so many free giveaways for your audiobook book ACX offers you, like so many free giveaways for your audiobook, so you can actually use that as a contest, you know, as like a contest form or something like that, and say like, hey, if you download this lead magnet, you get a chance to you know, also get a chance to win my audiobook. Something like that you could do. But yeah, like you just have to find where people are listening to audiobooks and or the genre of book that you listen to. And if you could, if you can find a group of people that love audiobooks and thriller audiobooks, then you're set like that's a great place to market.

21:59 - Brad (Host)

So you mentioned BookBub, you mentioned Goodreads. How vital are those to your success and I know, in each you can like, I know that on Goodreads the giveaway program, when you give, you know offer giveaway of signed book each you can like. I know that on Goodreads, the giveaway program, when you offer a giveaway of a signed book, you know I've had real good success with the amount of entrance and added to their to-read bookshelf is what it's called. And those are the two big ones out there, right? Are there any others that you see that are growing? That are how you look out for this one.

22:34 - Lynn (Host)

Yeah, I've tried some different platforms with a few of my books. I didn't get a lot of feedback and again it may have been just I wasn't consistent enough with it as well, because I like Goodreads a lot, because I know it's one of the most popular ones. But I mean I know there are some others out there that are specific to specific genres. So I would say, if you find one of those like Goodreads but it's specifically for your genre, definitely get on it. I just haven't done a lot of looking in like in the fictions area because I'm mostly focused on nonfiction.

23:06 - Brad (Host)

Sure.

23:15 - Lynn (Host)

But definitely get out and just check it out and see, like you know, google up like what are book clubs for thriller fiction books and see what pops up, um, and then just like go, I always recommend that people go in that group as like a reader, to see like how people are interacting, things like that, before you make them the financial investment of like putting money into an ad and things like that yeah, I've had've had some success on um, I believe it's.

23:32 - Brad (Host)

It's. The parent website is called written word, I believe, but it's. Bargain book, see. Free book See. Uh, those, those things are kind of cool to get your and it's really not that expensive to get the word out there. Book sweeps is another one. You can enter um, uh, your book into. Let's. They're going to do a giveaway. Let's say they offer in my genre 10 great books, usually from independent authors like myself, but they'll also put in, like a Freda McFadden book or something like that, as the book where people have heard of. But you get along with that.

24:08

You're able to collect their email addresses, which you can't on goodreads and you can't on on bookbub and you certainly cannot on amazon and to an independent author. That email is vital to ongoing success and, at least in my opinion, because if amazon changes the rules, which they're prone to do, or if they stop selling books, you may have thousands of readers out there and you have absolutely no clue who they are. However, if you've got that email address and again, there's some really good ways to do that if you've got that email address, then you can you do have a way to connect with them. You know you think you show your personality. There's only so much you can show on an amazon page or your author page. So, um, you know those are, to me, have been, some of the better uh sites out there that you can collect email address and offer your offer, your uh whoever's signing up, something of value as well. You don't want to just say, hey, sign up for, like you, tell all your buddies, hey, I'm going to send you an email, you need to sign up for this. Like you tell all your buddies, hey, I'm going to send you an email, you need to sign up for this. You know we all have those that we that we did, but there's there's also others out there who uh, other sites out there and those are the two best that I've found um, uh to be able to collect those email addresses. Then, once you have those, obviously you can build, build a platform from there.

25:27

And which leads me to my second point um, obviously kickstarter is, is a is a huge platform. It's you know it's becoming an even bigger platform in publishing. Would you have in in this may be an unfair question would you have an idea how many email um addresses or how many contacts you need in your mailing list to really think about doing a kickstarter campaign, because that's really where most of your uh people are going to come from. Who who know you well enough to go. Okay, I'm going to give you 20, 30, 50, 100 bucks, whatever it is to um to be a part of this yeah, I don't think you have to have a certain amount of like emails for that.

26:07 - Lynn (Host)

I think you have to have, like, a good following, and you have to have people who, like, are really highly interested in whatever it is that you're writing, um, so kickstarter is a great place to raise money for your book. There's another platform also I've worked with danielle desir. It's called grants for creators, and so this platform specifically, uh, is she curates all these different types of grants for all sorts of creative. So, like artists, writers, podcasters, screenwriters, like you name it she has a grant that she has probably curated and put on her list, and so that's another great way to find money for your project. So, if you can find a grant on her list that is, like you know, geared towards what you're doing and what a grantor wants to give money to, that's a great way to get money for your project as well, as you can go on grants for creators and write a grant for your book. I actually have a client right now who's doing that. He's looking for grants, to get grant money to fund his book.

27:07 - Brad (Host)

Yeah, because it's not an insignificant amount of money to publish, to publish a book, especially when it comes to how much you're going to spend on marketing. You know it's everybody I talked to unless you catch a lot in a bottle, especially in the fiction world. Unless you catch a lot in a bottle, you need two or three books really to to make much money. And and main reason is that, that lead magnet. You know that that hook that you want to get you and you mentioned lead magnet earlier. I'm assuming everyone knows what lead magnet is. But if you could kind of explain what you're talking about there.

27:41 - Lynn (Host)

Oh yeah.

27:41

So lead magnet for people who do not know is a basically it's a freebie or a giveaway that you give somebody in exchange for their email address, and if you don't know what it is, you've probably already signed up for one.

27:52

So, for example, like if you have said someone has offered you like oh, here's a self publishing checklist, you know, put your information in here and you give them your name and your email and then they send it, they automatically pops up or they email it to you and then you can download that PDF for your self-publishing checklist. So that's what a lead magnet is, and it doesn't have to be a checklist. It can be an ebook, it can be a free freebie course, it can be a video, it can be whatever. It can be a lot of different free things, but typically it's something that's electronic, that's easy to deliver and it's not going to be like one-on-one time or a live work. Sometimes it's a live workshop, but usually it's going to be some kind of freebie that you can just easily download digitally from your computer on your computer.

28:35 - Brad (Host)

Very good, and so I've started my second novel, uh, of the series Um, and I'm probably a little over half. Well, I've got a little more than half the words on paper. That doesn't mean I'm, that doesn't mean I'm a halfway finished yet. But how much time after your novel publishes would you say you need? Cause you know, as independent authors we want to get out that next book. Get out that next book. How much time would you say no, put the manuscript aside for a little bit and really focus on marketing your first book.

29:07 - Lynn (Host)

I would say because when what I recommend to people is ideally you want to start marketing your first book, I would say because when what I recommend to people is ideally you want to start marketing your first book three months before you publish it.

29:15

So if you do start three months before you publish it, then you have more of a cadence and then you can like jump into your next book the next year. So if you can, if you can and this is like a really tight kind of really efficient cadence publish like one book per year and then maybe after you publish that book, spend like three months, another three months marketing it. So if you spend three months for that first year marketing your book before you publish it and then three months afterward, you can obviously still do some more marketing campaign. But you can also start on your second book while you're working on marketing your first book still and then just keep that cycle going like, like from book to book. Now that is pretty time consuming. You will probably need to pay somebody to help you with that cadence because there's a lot of work to do in that, but that is a possibility.

30:05 - Brad (Host)

And Lynn switching gears a little bit. Obviously, artificial intelligence is a topic in pretty much every industry and it's a very much a uh a topic in the publishing world as well. Some of it is very taboo. If you're using a, an ai or a large language model to write your books for you, it's pretty taboo. However, there's a tremendous amount of uses, whether it be your processes, whether it be your marketing, things like that. Can you talk about that a little bit and, if not, asking if you're using it but get some suggestions for folks and maybe clarify the word AI in publishing and it doesn't mean that necessarily. I hope it doesn't mean it's writing your book for you, but kind of clarify that for some people.

30:54 - Lynn (Host)

Yeah, yeah. So AI, obviously artificial intelligence a lot of people have heard about it. It is not going to take over every job in the world, as opposed to like what some people think, and I know that because sometimes I asked Siri to play a playlist and she can't even get that right. So I'm like, if she can't even get my playlist request right, how are you going to take over my job? So, anyway, um, but again, obviously you know there are some shifts in the workplace because of ai. But, um, for writing specifically, what I tell people is you don't want to use ai to write your book because there's a huge copyright issue with that. Like you don't want to.

31:24

I've seen people like literally copy and paste stuff from ai into their book and I'm like like, no, that's a really bad idea Because you know it's a copyright issue. But you're also taking someone else's work and using it, and I know a lot of people wouldn't want that done to them. So what I tell people? A good AI is a tool. We have to look at it as a tool and like what are the good tool applications to use that we can use it to get our work done a little faster. So one tool you can use AI for publishing with is if you have your book written and you put your book into AI and say hey, write me up a really good Amazon description for my fiction book. It's a thriller.

31:58

And then you can put a little description in it, right, that's fine because you're using your own work and putting it into AI for the model. But what I don't recommend is using AI to directly write your book. Another example using it as a tool would be if you're like having a hard time coming up with a chapter title. So you put the chapter of a book in AI and say, please give me some chapter title suggestions for this chapter of my book and it will come up with a bunch. And usually if I do that for one of my books, I will pick and choose from different pieces of titles to make one title that I like.

32:33 - Brad (Host)

Okay, yeah, that's a very good point. I'm seeing a lot of experts out there use it for their processes. They'll allow an artificial intelligence tool to you know, because marketing can be very time consuming. Yes, you know, because marketing can be very time consuming. Yes, you can set up a system that will do it for you. I say, with your initial direction anyway, and it's almost like a scheduling is what it boils down to. So I do think it has its application in our world. I do not think it has its application.

33:10

Getting uh words on paper, Um, you know, and, and it feels like I can always tell when someone's written an email using AI, it just feels, it feels cold, yeah, and in our world, you know, fiction's not cold or shouldn't be anyway. So, uh, just got back from uh voucher con and um in, uh, New Orleans, and that was a big topic. Um, some people will almost fight you over it. It's such a hot topic. But just use correctly and and really do your research on that one, Uh, if you're going to, if you're going to use it as an application. But it has very useful tools. There's, there's no question about it.

33:49 - Lynn (Host)

Yeah, it is definitely useful as a tool. Well, Brad, this has been fabulous coming on. Thank you for asking such great questions and please let my listeners know where they can find your book and where they can learn more about you as an author.

34:01 - Brad (Host)

Yeah, you can find it on Amazon Recoil of Justice, or you can go directly to to my website and there's a link on my website to to the Amazon page. It's bradeldernovelscom, that's B-R-A-D-E-L-D-E-R novelscom. Or follow me on my social media pages, on Instagram bradeldernovels or on Facebook at Brad Elder Novels. So, yeah, they'll be able to catch up with me and uh, and learn a little bit more about me and and, hopefully, uh, learn a little bit more about uh, uh, about my book and, and, and hopefully enjoy it.

34:36 - Lynn (Host)

Perfect. Well, we will definitely put all those links in the show notes, which is right underneath the episode for people that are new to the show. And, brad, thank you again so much for coming on and doing a book blueprint episode with me today. This was really great and I know my guests got a lot of really good, valuable information from it.